April 24, 2024
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It shows how out of it I was in trying to be in it, acknowledging that I was out of it to myself, and then thinking, “Okay, how do I stop being out of it? Well, I get some legitimate illogical narrative ideas” — some novel, you know?
So I decided on three writers that I might be able to option their material and get some producer, or myself as producer, and then get some writer to do a screenplay on it, and maybe make a movie.
And so the three projects were “Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep,” “Naked Lunch” and a collection of Bukowski. Which, in 1975, forget it — I mean, that was nuts. Hollywood would not touch any of that, but I was looking for something commercial, and I thought that all of these things were coming.
There would be no Blade Runner if there was no Ray Bradbury. I couldn’t find Philip K. Dick. His agent didn’t even know where he was. And so I gave up.
I was walking down the street and I ran into Bradbury — he directed a play that I was going to do as an actor, so we know each other, but he yelled “hi” — and I’d forgot who he was.
So at my girlfriend Barbara Hershey’s urging — I was with her at that moment — she said, “Talk to him! That guy really wants to talk to you,” and I said “No, fuck him,” and keep walking.
But then I did, and then I realized who it was, and I thought, “Wait, he’s in that realm, maybe he knows Philip K. Dick.” I said, “You know a guy named—” “Yeah, sure — you want his phone number?”
My friend paid my rent for a year while I wrote, because it turned out we couldn’t get a writer. My friends kept on me about, well, if you can’t get a writer, then you write.”
~ Hampton Fancher
“That was the most disappointing thing to me in how this thing was played. Is that I’m on the phone with you now, after all that’s been said, and the fundamental distinction between what James is dealing with in these other cases is not actually brought to the fore. The fundamental difference is that James Franco didn’t seek to use his position to have sex with anyone. There’s not a case of that. He wasn’t using his position or status to try to solicit a sexual favor from anyone. If he had — if that were what the accusation involved — the show would not have gone on. We would have folded up shop and we would have not completed the show. Because then it would have been the same as Harvey Weinstein, or Les Moonves, or any of these cases that are fundamental to this new paradigm. Did you not notice that? Why did you not notice that? Is that not something notable to say, journalistically? Because nobody could find the voice to say it. I’m not just being rhetorical. Why is it that you and the other critics, none of you could find the voice to say, “You know, it’s not this, it’s that”? Because — let me go on and speak further to this. If you go back to the L.A. Times piece, that’s what it lacked. That’s what they were not able to deliver. The one example in the five that involved an issue of a sexual act was between James and a woman he was dating, who he was not working with. There was no professional dynamic in any capacity.
~ David Simon
For the most part, I think you make solid predictions for the summer, though I think your top four are all pretty inflated, especially Madagascar.
If DreamWorks would swallow their pride and move it into June, away from Longest Yard, they could get to $200 mill. But Adam Sandler and Chris Rock (he’s in both) are going to take a big bite out of the opening on Memorial Day Weekend.
I know that everybody is expecting huge things out of War of the Worlds, but for some reason, I don’t think that Cruise or Spielberg are the draws they used to be. Minority Report pretty much did half of what I thought it would do. And I don’t think Cruise has brought a film significantly over $100 mill domestic in years, since Mission Impossible 2. I think Paramount is expecting Independence Day numbers, but should be happy with The Day After Tomorrow numbers.
Domino grossing over $100 mill is a ballsy pick and I am sure that New Line will market the hell out of it, but this just feels like a film that will get bumped to September, just like True Romance did, all those years ago.
Bad News Bears definitely has blockbuster sleeper potential and I think it will probably be Paramount’s most profitable hit of the summer.
its easy to say but it all depends on how good madagascar is. bad animation doesn’t bring in the crowds. kids can smell a rat quick. the list of ani bombs is long and not distinguished.
The trailer for Madagascar was horribly unfunny, but there’s lots of cutesy chatacters for kids to latch onto. Plus, as David stated, there aren’t any other animated films for it to compete with. People have to take their kids to something, and with Star Wars being PG-13 that’s one less option (for good parents).
I’m a little wary of the $415 for Revenge of the Sith as well…while I feel it will do better than all of the naysayers seem to be predicting, that’s a lot of money. Considering The Phantom Menace pulled in $431 largely due to its huge success with kids, I don’t know where you think this $415 is coming from. You’re counting on A LOT of repeat viewing. While this one may go over well with the fans, is the average viewer going to see it over and over? It will certainly pass Attack of the Clones but $400 just seems too high for the sixth film in a series, regardless of the quality.
Wait, are you saying that only a bad parent would take their child to a PG-13 Star Wars?
Dave, as much as you love discussing box office (as do I and I’m sure many others around here), have you read Open Wide: How Hollywood Box Office Became a National Obsession? Any thoughts? If you’ve already talked about it I apologize, but I just read a review of it in The Atlantic and it sounds excellent.
Good point, Lazarus. Episode III is not going to bring in the kids needed for $400 million. I know it will pass $300 mill, but am skeptical that it can do much more than that.
People really seem to forget that Star Wars is not the biggest game in town, any more. LOTR, Shrek, and Spidey are now the highest grossing series, running. (And I include LOTR because you know The Hobbit is on the way).
And while I am jazzed to see it, I highly doubt that the writing quality will be much improved from Episode II, which was very difficult to watch and hard to listen to, at times. Those scenes with Hayden were just death to watch and it was not even all his fault. If the quality of this episode is not much better AND of course, it’s much darker, I don’t see how it can come close to Phantom Menace grosses.
But what do I know? I sure didn’t see either The Passion or Shrek 2 making close to what they did, last year. Although I don’t know any body else who did, either.
Ditto what Geoff said about Madagascar, unless Dreamworks can find the funny in this, I can’t see it doing better numbers than Shark Tale.
I would expect The Island to make more with the FF striking out, it will have the action market corner in a still busy July. Also because this summer is not too action heavy (mostly cross over movies like WofW, Batman) it should have an open oppurtunity. Would would think Dark Water would do Ring 2 numbers with a lower opening weekend, but maybe play a little longer in a horror free couple of weekends. HHGU smay make more, and to my estimation is the only movie of the summer that could become a surprise hit, all others are pretty certain. Also, Unleashed would have better possibilities in August, but Jet Li can open a picture, and if it opens at 10 or more, it can push past 30 million (That of course depends on if Focus sells it or drops and runs). Even if Pink Panther is awful, it will open at more than half your and shrink after that, making it a 35-40 million disappointment.
I think it is reasonable to expect ‘War of the Worlds’ to approach ‘Independence Day’-type numbers, although I am also puzzled as to why Minority Report didn’t do better at the box office. As for SW3, a PG-13 rating is exactly what it needs to get that $415 million or more. It tells people that the movie’s got more of an edge to it than the first two chapters, which makes fans like me irrationally hopeful that SW3 won’t suck. If it doesn’t suck, then because expectations set by the first two prequels were exceeded, SW3 should see plenty of return business.
The problem with Minority Report was A.I. A lot of the general population REALLY hated it (When I worked as a projectionist during A.I.’s run, 10 or more people walked out per showing on opening night, most of them during Flesh Fair about halfway into the movie. I don’t really blame them. Spielberg, you’re great, but NEVER TRY TO FILM DEATH METAL EVER AGAIN!). After that, he brought another steel-coated sci-fi movie, and a lot of people got cold feet. Sad, really, because Minority Report was much much better.
War of the Worlds will be more commercial, but it’s hard to tell how much. It’s been well established Paramount, as of late, can’t SELL anything. I mean, advertising a retro movie like Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow as “downloading into the future!” What…. the…. hell? And does anyone remember ANY advertising for The Manchurian Candidate remake?
There’s one teaser for War of the Worlds which didn’t have much impact, a Super Bowl spot which was better, but it was no torching White House (say what you want about it being spoilerific, but it got people into the theaters). I’d say around 200 million until I see a trailer that impresses.
War of the Worlds should do great business. But ID4 was in another league. Pure popcorn. With a great teaser campaign. Will be tough to beat out even with Cruise and Spielberg.
Frankly I think “Kingdom of Heaven” will do much better than $87mill. I think that one’s in the low $100’s. That trailer is wowing everyone and this is one where the reviews will help some.
I agree that while I will be seeing War of the Worlds opening day. I don’t know too many other people jazzed about it. It’ll break $150 mill, but not much more.
I’ll bet “Bewitched” is seen as the bomb of the summer. The trailer sucks, a friend of mine saw a sneek peak two weeks ago and says it’s pretty lame.
After Troy and Alexander, people are probably getting sick of the sword-and-sandal epics, but I’m guessing that Kingdom of Heaven will perform much more like the former. It certainly looks great to me.
It’s Hitchhikers Guide to the GALAXY! Not Universe. I really think this movie is being underestimated. I think it can definitely make more than 48 mil, and I wish I could say it would make over 200 mil, but that is obviously way out of the question unfortunately. If they finally start to just get the damn word out there about this, then it could at least make 80 mil.
I am not surprised that Minority report didn’t do better. The audience booed openly at the ending…perhaps the word got out that a cheese ending was slapped onto a PK Dick tale.
I liked Minority Report a lot until the ending, which I really did not care for at all.
What theatre are you going to where they boo the endings of movies? Thats passionate.
I didn’t think Minory Report was ruined by the ending…just on how many minutes it took to get there. Had it been all action I think it would have been great.
I see the argument that everyone is sick of the huge CGI battle between two armies, ala Troy and Return of the King. But what the hell else are people going to see that weekend? Monster-in-Law? XXX 2? Hitchhiker’s guide to the Galaxy?
Fantastic four? Under a 100million? Are you fucking kidding me? The fan boys will be out in droves. They’re looking for the next Xmen, the next spidey. Even if it sucks, on pure momentum alone it will get past hulk’s brooding numbers.
David you need a new brand of reefer.
Bulldog, while I agree that Fantastic Four will probably end up better than $100 million (albeit not by much), I think you over-estimate the cachet of comic properties.
It seemed like comic adaptations were a sure thing a few years ago– it’s easy to look back and see a few comic movies that came out around the same time and which all made a lot of money. But X-Men and Spider-Man made money because they were good, not because they were based on comics.
There have been too many Hulks, Daredevils, Elektras, Punishers, and Batmans 3 and 4. Think of big-budget comic movies as sharing a trend pattern with computer animation. The first few may have made a few extra dollars on novelty value, but the market has become overserved and the value has been diluted. (Poland has been saying this about CGI since Shark Tale and Robots, and probably before.)
A brand name will get your foot in the door– see Hulk’s opening weekend– but the movie has to stand on its own to be a success. And Fantastic Four looks awful.
Hitchhiker’s should do at least $50 mill, but it doesn’t feel like a big hit to me. Part of that is the casting, plus I’ve watched some scenes from it.. and it just feels a little too slow and low budget to get any mass audience appeal. Plus none of the actors are recognizable. The name will make sure it does OK though.
I still say that Hulk was a big success considering how “adult” the material was treated. And while many action fans felt let down, I thought Ang Lee’s visual grammar was really great in the way he tried to emulate comic book panels.
I’m not saying this is an overlooked masterpiece, but it’s far from the piece of crap that everyone seems to describe it as. The first Tim Burton Batman was all set decoration and no substance yet it seems to get a free pass from fanboys.
Fantastic Four looks completely retarded; people unfamiliar with the comic (and it’s not NEARLY as recognizable as Spider-Man or Hulk) are going to think it’s an X-Men rip off. While Singer (and 20th Century Fox) made some great casting choices with X-Men and tried to at least get some known faces in the mix, the studio’s biggest grab this time is Alba, and not to sound like an asshole, but Ioan Gruffudd isn’t exactly a name that rolls off the tongue. There’s nothing here even close to the coolness of Wolverine. Why would anyone bother? It’s going to get bad reviews, bad word of mouth, and will be LUCKY to finish with $100 million.
I would laugh my ass off is somehow Hitchhiker’s manages to top out above Four, but of course they also did a shitty job marketing that to middle America.
Really, the only sure thing this summer (for BIG numbers) is Episode III. War of the Worlds being clearly less intellectual than Minority Report or A.I. should do well, but haven’t people seen this crap before? How many times can you watch the world get destroyed, by floods, aliens, whatever? With all the intelligent Sci-Fi that’s getting made, why would Spielberg resort to unearthing this tired material? Aren’t we past it? I hope it tanks.
First off; good parents took their kids in DROVES
to see LOTR. Which received a PG-13 for roughly
the same reasons Revenge has garned the same rating
(Oops; there goes Kelar’s head). Kids will see
Revenge because kids today, just as in the past,
can handle beheadings, limb removal, and a molten
man due in large part to those LOTR films. Thank
god for PJ and his ability to get those kids over
such trivial things.
However, there is only one real FRANCHISE in town
with enduring popularity, and it goes by the title
STAR WARS. Spidey is a comic book movie. LOTR has
already been forgotten by many or those who have
not forgotten have moved on. Shrek, kids film, and
do people really give a shit about those two films?
Really? I would wager against as should anyone who
visits a local used DVD store. SW has endured and
continues to be the top dog. No bitchy as fan boys
or biased ass critics can kill it. This film should
shut those two groups up, and end the film part (
for now) on a very high note. Just remember; she
had the idea first.
Now, besides SW, how on earth can people be slagging
FF the way they have? Do some of you forget that
the X-Men (you know? THE MUCH HERALDED AND LOVED
X-MEN!) received the EXACT SAME SORT OF BOLLOCK
LIKE SLAGGING BEFORE IT HIT THEATRES? It even had
to endure a smear campaign all over geek sites because
some folks just thought it really sucked. Now, 5
years later, the FF somehow has to go through this
again?
Come on; have some faith in Ben Grimm action. This
film cannot be worse than the first Spider-Man or
that Punisher film with Dulph Lundgren. If everyone
wants to have serious EXPECTATIONS towards this
film, then of course the film will fail in your
eyes. Since expectations when it comes to this
type of film are a sucker’s game. The HULK somehow
has a huge fan base now, but before it came out.
Many had it DOA just as they are doing now with the
FF.
Just because the trailer did not tickle your ass with
a feather. Does not exactly mean the movie will suck.
IF it does; call me a dumbass. If it does not;
SUCK IT!
fantastic four fans are the comicbook roaches. They’re everywhere and multiplying and definitely the #1 annoyance factor at comic book conventions which means Fantastic Four, no matter how crap it is (and I am not saying it is at all) will do better than 100 million. There isn’t a movie so anticipated except maybe Iron Man for the following year.
Attack of the Clones was so bad I wanted Future Darth to be ‘taken out’.
Biggest mistake the Star Wars people made was wiping out Darth Maul, a character who could have injected some interest into the tedious episode II (& likely)III. I will have to see Episode III…it’s a compulsion.
re, Miority Report being booed. It was booed in London. If there isn’t misery and death at the end, Londoners aren’t happy, excepting Bridget Jones Diary(the first one).
The slagging of episode 2 makes absolutely no sense.
What should I expect from people who do not get that
EVER *** **** ************* LOVE STORY ON FILM HAS
DIALOGUE LIKE THAT IN EPISODE 2! The best I can
figure; no one got that Anakin is a dick. He is
a kind and compassionate guy, but a dick nonetheless.
Some many people want friggin Han Solo in the form
of Anakin, but missed that Obi-Wan easily out cools
Solo any day of the week. Go ahead; complain about
episode two. That love story pays off BIG TIME in
Revenge. Hell without it there would be no reason
for any of the events in Ep IV to take place. Since
the love gets the ball rolling.
Lota, not only do you hate the Cubs (which should
be a mortal sin in the Catholic Church) but you
seem totally oblivious to the point of all off
Sidious’ apprentices up until Vader; they were
there to set things up. They were pawns of their
master because he always wanted Anakin. Sidious
knew Maul would die as he knows Dooku would one
day face a similar fate. All of those Sith Apprentice
and Grievous are there to establish ANAKIN AS THE
MAN.
The above; thus the reason I hate SW discussions.
Since no one takes a damn moment, outside of fans
of the god damn trilogy, to think about the subtext
of these films. Again, people love the flashy
flashy (blowing shit up and emotional fireworks).
Yet miss out on the subtle strokes that make a film
with a rich subtext great. Different strokes I guess.
We are all indeed entitled…
If I had the slightest inkling that FF would be as good as X-Men… that Tim Story was a Singer-level director… that there were major charasmatics in the cast… that The Incredibles didn’t steal much of the thunder of the raw ideas and singularity of the imagery…
If I gave the slightest damn when The Thing says, “It’s Clobberin’ Time,” I would be estimating much higher.
Charlie, Wedding Crashers and Bad News Bears – besides WOTW and The Island – will crush the film unless it is really special in some way. Ben Grimm was my personal favorite character growing up. I am looking to invest. But so far, I haven’t seen anything close to exciting. Sorry.
I have no problem with the estimate there David. My
problem stems from all of this hatred due to one
US released Teaser Trailer. I bring this up because
to many the first X-Men trailor sucked as well.
No one really cared about Singer or his involvement.
The only cool point it had going for it; Jean-Luc
Picard. It had bad word of mouth from one trailer
until it came out. Shockingly winning the weekend
to the dismay of the Brandon Douche Chills” Grays
of this world.
FF and X-Men even have VERY SIMILAR TEASER TRAILERS.
Each has rock/techno pumping through, each has the
characters looking up or down at something, and each
got lauded as sucking. My point being that if everyone
now LOVES the X-men. When at first many of those
same people thought it would suck. Is it not remotely
plausible that the FF has been suffering from the
same sort “SHITTY TRAILER” residual effect?
Not one of us really knows if Tim Story (and the FOX
execs now working with him to edit the film the way
the see fit; possibly) and his team can pull this
film off. Yet it seems sensible at least to me to
give the film a chance before writing it off due to
one “shitty trailer.” A trailer I love inconsequently.
The problem with SW II & III is the simple fact that, unless some magic happens in Ep. III, I simply don’t believe that the whiny, petulant blond we’ve seen is the same guy as the badass in the black mask with James Earl Jones’ voice. He still looks like too much of a Backstreet Boy. It will do business between Clones and Phantom.
Fantastic Four will not open nearly as big as Hulk – they did a much better marketing job hiding the disappointment then. Here the crap is already out front for the public to see, and there isn’t a “from the director of Crouching Tiger” tagline for them to use.
Re: War of the Worlds…it’s obviously Spielberg’s response to Sept. 11, and it’s box office will depend on how close to the bone he decides to go. The more removed from reality and escapist, the more money it’ll make. I hope he goes out on a limb and makes something edgy even though that’ll diminish it’s take, just as AI annoyed people even though, in my opinion, it’s a great film.
Saying Episode II and ‘love story’ in the same breath means you are now a thought criminal, L & DB.
and I don’t hate the Cubs, I just dislike intensely Cubs fans. Go Mets.
re FF.
Generation Xer comic book readers get turned off pretty easily by comic book movies that don’t look great (and that’s usually correct), but I still think the youngsters have that thing called Vain Hope. So even if FF gets a rating more grim that Porky’s Revenge, I bet they’ll be there in locust-like swarms.
Open Wide — I think I may be one of the few people who has read the book. It uses the weekend that T-3, the animated clunker Sinbad, and Legally Blonde 2 opened to analyze the phenomenon of box office. It was better than ambien at putting me to sleep. The writers are respected reporters for one of the trades, but the book was boring. The subject is still worthy of a good book. Peter Bart does a better job — but the subject is a hard nut to crack. The elusive “great” book is still out there. The title worked was fun, but the direction was too focused on a weekend that didn’t really matter and the sources, unfortunately, didn’t really “Open Wide” enough to make it a page turner that broke news or any new ground.
Someone needs to ban this asshole for pure stupidity. To say that Star Wars is anything but a joke at this point is downright insane. And Fantastic 4 looks possibly even worse than Punisher. Here’s a penny, go buy a clue.
The box office take of the last two films would serve to illustrate that people are still interested in Star Wars, and had Spider-Man not come out in 2002 you probably would have seen closer to $350 mil. Episode 1 was the second highest grossing film of all time until releases of Episode IV and E.T. were allowed to add to their tallies.
On Rotten tomatoes, Episodes I & II have a 62 & 65% fresh rating. While not stellar, they’re still considered “fresh” and are above a hell of a lot of other films. So even the critical consensus isn’t as bad as people would like to believe.
A Mets fan Lota? You are more a glutton for punishment
than any Cubs fans. Hate us all we want; at least
WE ARE THRIFTY (That Mo Vaughn deal so worked out
for you guys!) Sorry Lota; you are a friggin mortal
friggin sin in my world. Just because it you did not
like it. Does not mean it was not there.
Jeff, babe, let me explain something to you. Any
man, be it one’s cloaked in a large life support
suit or not, that chokes people at will. Could
easily be seen as a petulent dick. Again, Anakin
is a dick. On what realm of existance has this
become a stretch that he has become Vader? Good
god Jeff you provide some of the strangest comments.
Vader has and always will be the same type of dick
as Anakin has been protrayed as being. Yeah. Real
mature people go around killing experience Imperial
officals. Sure.
I know plenty of people that I would consider “petulant dicks,” but I’ve seen none of them progress into murderous imperialists. It’s not some natural progession from one type to the other.
Something more exists in the type of person that turns into a Darth Vader. And Hayden Christianson doesn’t have the chops to act it, and George Lucas doesn’t have the skill to write it.
In Episode III you will witness some truly bogus and unnatural character development, as Lucas attempts to squeeze the whiny brat into the murderer’s armor.
It’s just not the same character. Hayden C. is a boy and Darth V. is a man and there’s a huge cognitive dissonance in there that leads you to think that Lucas has successfully bridged (or will bridge) that gap.
The simple fact is that the role called for a badass and Lucas instead decided to go for the heartthrob casting.
I believe that War of the Worlds will get past 300M. The last summers have proved that you could have mega blockbusters coexisting, shrek/Spidey2/H.Potter of 2004, and Nemo/Pirates/Matrix of 2003.
I think prognosticators are all erring on the side of caution not wanting to predict that it will be a huge blockbuster summer, but as the american public has proven time and time again, they show up disaster flicks when there is a brand name attached to it.Will Smith got I Robot to 160M and there was no major money shot in that flick. Dependent on the quality of this film, and there is a great chance of that with Spielberg & Cruise at the helm, it could even challenge Independence numbers, especially if the aliens are cool.
I also think that Bewitched might be another Stepford Wives. It looks uninspired and uneventful. I hope Will Ferrell saves it though Kicking & Screaming looks to be great fun. The families will show up droves for this one.
Kingdom of Heaven has the masterful Ridley Scott behind it, but it will have to be out of the park fantastic to do great business. After Troy, King Arthur and Alexander, don’t know whether another sword and sandal can conquer the box office. Oh well…Rise a knight.You can’t learn these powers from a Jedi.
The comparison to the marketing campaign of X-Men and Fantastic Four is worthwhile, and where they deviate is likely what makes the difference. X-Men came out with a rushed, confusing (to newbies) and uninspiring trailer, much to everyone’s charigin. Then, less than a month later, they got their act together and released a longer, and FAR SUPERIOR trailer that explained the concept, introduced the characters, and used more sweeping musical scores. After that, everyone was excited again (it’s a great trailer for the ages, in terms of raising excitement and hope where before there was doubt and fear). Fantastic Four came out with a weak teaser, but the difference is that every other preview has been about on the same level of quality. Also, X-Men shocked everyone by breaking a record at the time with $57 million (sigh – remember when anything over $40 million would make you spit out your drink… it was so recent and yet so long ago) and eventually took in $155 million (the drop off was odd as word of mouth was very positive, from everyone). Of course, the problem is, X-Men only cost $75 million, so it was highly profitable. Although one could argue that Fox was smart to reign in the budget, I have always believed that adding another $20 million or so for a few more quick action set pieces would have increased the repeat business factor and pused it over $200 million. Instead, Fox stupidly spent an extra $20 million on Daredevil’s budget to undue the gritty, street level feel of the film, thus undermining both the quality and eventual profitibility. If Fox had released the director’s cut of Daredevil in theatres, without any silly fx fixings, it would have made $150 million… discuss. Anyway, sorry about the digression, Fantastic Four might have actually cost about $155 million (thanks to reshoots and general inflation, and everything else that makes movies cost so much), so even a similiar pattern would mean they would still be relying on international and video money to make a profit. It’s a similiar situation, but with a few crucial differences.
Scott Mendelson
I cannot wait for Episode Three to come out. Expecting big things.
The director’s cut of Daredevil was far better and made better sense and I am sorry I saw the theatrical version. It would have been more successful with fans had That been released, definitely.
If FF is costing twice what Xmen cost…yikes.
Chester, I should be banned for stating an opinion? How opened mind of you; you ruttin asshole. Now crawl back into your hole or may Spam Dooley show you why he feeds his people.
Lota, even a Mets fan, who defends Daredevil in some small way. Merits some sort of dap. SO dap for you; even though your bloody Mets unleashed a vodou curse upon us in 1969.
Eric and Jeff; you fail to understand the character of Darth Vader. You think Anakin just all of a sudden stopped being a whiny brat? No. He’s still that inside of that suit until his kid snaps him out of it.
If you had paid attention to the trailer. You would understand that Anakin decides to become Darth Vader due in large part to something brought up in Episode 2, that of being able to control life. Darth Vader is not a bad ass. Sure he appears that way but that’s just your misunderstanding of the character.
The guy wants to be able to control LIFE. HE wants to be able to make sure someone he loves does not die due in large part to someone who he also loved dying because he did not have the power to save her. You two are taking just one facet of the character, his persona, and saying that the persona matches the character. When Vader screams in Revenge in mortal agony. You will see how wrong both of you really are.
You are entitled to your opinions and your perceptions, but they are just out step with the realities of the way the character has always been.
What would you do Eric? If given the chance to be able to control; LIFE? I bet you would do just about any damn thing possible.
L&DB: You shouldn’t be banned for stating an opinion, you should be ignored for having dopey opinions.
Yes, I saw Clones and I understand Vader’s character. So he’s still just a whiny brat inside the mask? Very new agey of you. I bet Hitler was the same way, just wanted to be loved and to do what he thought was the right thing.
All Vader ever talked about in the original trilogy was power. He didn’t want to make the universe a better place, he was the ultimate bad guy. You and Lucas seem to have a very shallow understanding of character, if you think a tragedy can be wrought out of a guy who didn’t spend enough time with his mother before she died.
“Fantastic four? Under a 100million? Are you fucking kidding me? The fan boys will be out in droves. They’re looking for the next Xmen, the next spidey. Even if it sucks, on pure momentum alone it will get past hulk’s brooding numbers.”
But the thing that gets movies over 100million isn’t the die hard fans, its the ordinary Friday/Saturday Night movie goer who goes purely on the trailer and posters. Both of which aren’t much cop. And Jessica Alba? Iaon Guffard? Tom Evans? Michael Chiklis? or whatever their names are…
anyway.
I think Hitchhikers will do better, Madagascar worse (i think it’ll be a success just not to $260mil).
I don’t think Batman will get to $235million, ditto for Domino and XXX2. I think The Wedding Crashers has a chance to do really good based on that trailer (and, man, it’s so odd to see so many Home & Away (Australian soapie) stars making it big. Melissa George (Amityville, Alias), Isla Fisher (Wedding Crashers) and of course, Naomi Watts who was in it for a short time.
Bad News Bears = 2005’s Freaky Friday… i think it very well could be.
War of the Worlds I think has a great chance at getting to $300. It’s word of mouth will no doubt be better than The Day After Tomorrow and so it’ll play bigger and longer. Plus, July 4.
Dark Water will probably do similar numbers to the recent horror movies I think. $20mil open and around $55mil finish. Although if it gets a killer trailer and pin down the creepiness of the original…
House of Wax I think will do WAY better than $28mil. I mean, only Kingdom of Heaven is opening that weekend alongside it and what are bored sex-starved teenagers gonna go see? The movie with the hot young stars being murdered. I’m thinking it’ll end somewhere in between Dawn of the Dead remake ($58mil) and Texas Chainsaw remake ($80mil).
Pink Panther may have a decent opening weekend $13mil? but will die soon after. And seriously, Duece Bigalow 2? egads…
Who even knew there was a Doom movie being released in a few months?
I also agree with the grosses for CHarlie, Longest Yard, Cindarella Man (although I stick it around $100mil), The Island and most of the others.
Undead is finally being released over there? Geez, I saw that aaaages ago. It is a decent Aussie horror comedy. Wasn’t anything to write home about.
I think the most curious title of the Summer (box-office wise) is Mr. & Mrs. Smith. That could seriously go either way.
Jeff, if I have dopey opinions, then you have the
market covered with dumb ones. You assumed you
understood the kind of power Vader was talking. You
thought it to be the ruling of galaxies and people.
Bzzzzzz, wrong. The power Anakin always want was
control. Control over the lives of the one’s he
loved to make sure they DID NOT DIE. Control over
death in a way a certain Sith Lord with soon promise
him on the 19th of next month.
The power to control LIFE! That’s the power he was
always talking about until Luke told him of a greater
power than that of the Dark Side. It’s all revealed
on the 19th. Until you know what I know. Let us
just assume you are uninformed and save this debate
for later.
And Jeff; you sort of stumbled upon the major similarity
between the Jews and the Jedi. It has nothing to do
with being new agey. It just has to do with what
one person wanted; the power to save the woman he
loved. Yet; true life after death can only be found
in the force.
Can we please leave all the Star Wars talk until it actually comes out!
(however, Surely Revenge of the Sith is the frontrunner for the Best Visual Effects Oscar already. With no Spiderman or Matrix or whatever in sight… just thought I’d mention that)
There’s no guarantee that Episode III will even win an effects Oscar. The effects in Episode 1 were truly groundbreaking, the greatest ever put on film, but they lost to the gimmicky, flavor-of-the-month bullet time in The Matrix. Just because people hated Jar Jar Binks they shouldn’t have penalized the geniuses over at ILM. Episode II was also deserving of the effects Oscar but was shafted by the embarassingly shabby effects in Spider-Man. Why? Because they thought the film was better.
I could also make a serious case for Episode I deserving costume design and art direction awards, but perhaps the biggest robbery was not giving Ben Burtt a sound effects editing Oscar. Aside from Walter Murch the guy is the biggest revolutionary in the field.
Maybe if Episode III is well-received they’ll give it some love but I wouldn’t be surprised if King Kong gets it. Which is sad because WETA will never, never surpass ILM. Yeah Gollum was impressive but ILM did it first, and there’s a lot of effects in LOTR that were underwhelming.
Considering the fact that an Oscar, any Oscar, can be used for promotional purposes by the winner in a deceptive way (Armageddon, Oscar Winner…. for sound design) I think that the Academy now considers both the quality of the film in addition to the quality of the technology. Rewarding a steaming pile of crap, like Episode 1, simply for effects could potentially leave a black mark on the Oscars. So they went with the better effects movie (even if the effects werent as good). Until Lucas makes a movie that members of the Academy think is worth a shit, he’ll keep getting shut out at the Oscars. Great effects in the aid of a horrible story will never win out.
The FX Oscar has more to do with the stupidity of
the members of the Academy. Less so with the story
of the film because if that were the case, then how
did Return of the Hobbit win an Oscar? They just
bought into the hype of the FX being so GRAND in
the LOTR that they missed how subpar they have been.
WETA does not even rank as highly as ESC for god’s
sake.
Revenge has more FX shot in it than any other movie
this year. If ILM does not win again, then there
is something rotten at the Kodak Theatre.
L&DB, while I agree overall with what you say about Episode II, I do not buy what George Lucas said about it being in the old style romance vein of dialogue – because when Padme turns to Anakin and says, “I love you. Truly. Deeply. Madly…etc” I cringe. Nice sentiment, but far too cheezy, even for star crossed lovers. But I do think a lot of people missed the point that Anakin was a spoiled kid from the get go. Qui Gon saw potential in a talented kid, encouraged it but wasn’t firm enough…And Obi-Wan obviously made a better big brother than father figure, since in movie world they’re probably supposed to be about ten years a part in age. Neither ever gained the full respect of Anakin because he felt that they belittled his abilities (Obi-Wan more so). Enter Palpatine, a nice old guy who encourages Anakin to explore what his power can bring. Sounds like a great guy to me, so I’ll go follow him and see what he can do for me. But I digress…it’s been talked about enough all over the web.
Anyhow, I can’t wait to see this film. I’ve listened to the soundtrack a few times now, and John Williams does a great job of tying together musical themes etc so that at least in one respect the film will be a great bridge into ANH. I am skeptical that it’ll reach $415 million. I think it’ll pass ATOC, but if it breaks $400 mill, then I think it might just pass TPM too. This by all accounts is the Star Wars prequel everyone was waiting for. I know it’s rated PG-13 and all that jazz (probably be PG for Canadians like myself) and I’ll take my eight year old sister to it. She can’t hardly wait for it. She prefers the OT because of C-3P0 and R2-D2, and at the end of the day isn’t that one of the main reasons everyone loves Star Wars?
Anyhow, no major Jar Jar scenes (at least that’s a hope), mutilations and darkness abound? I think a lot more people are interested this time around cos of those factors. The commercials and trailers are intense, and as LOTR proved, people like intense semi-kid friendly darkness.
Switching gears back to another fave subject of mine, Kingdom of Heaven…Gladiator took in $187 million…I think Ridley Scott returning back to the game he helped reinvigorate could equal about $125 million…if it’s as good as some are saying, DVD sales should be brisk and Oscar may come a calling…Fox is obviously following the early summer Gladiator like opening and hoping that it will pan out in that regard. Anyhow…that’s it from me.
Only a blind person would argue that Lucas hadn’t laid the groundwork for Anakin’s/Vader’s character background. My complaint is merely with how poor the quality of the writing and performances have been.
With that I will stop arguing with high school kids.
The poor writing and acting are of course subjective,
but if you hate Hayden as an angsty teen. I would
say; that was quite effective work. More on this
later…of course.
Star Wars III has taken over the breakfast of Champions: Kellogg’s, and ALbertsons has so graciously displayed (i.e. Payola) all Star Wars food items. I got a real “light-up Saber spoon” in my box of Corn Pops today. It works.
On the back of the box is says: “Start your day with real Jedi action”. Heh heh. If the Jedi were really getting Any action, would they all be so grumpy? Doubt it.
I couldn’t help noticing the stills of Ewen & Hayden on the box. Their hair not only looks perfectly coiffed, but highlighted as well. The hair and garb-style looks a little too blow-dried Duran Duran (and does McGregor have Shoulder Pads?!). Han SOlo looked like he was wearing AquaNet in the first Star Wars, so maybe they are returning to this “winning formula”.
There is about 6 months of Star Wars-sponsored food onslaught left. I wonder how much this is adding to the budget.
Master Lota
Yup Lota. They are taking it back to, now? So
everyone in Revenge will have trippy ass retro/
present day haircuts. Captain Antilles, by far,
has the most retro hair in that entire film.
L&DB, throughout all five of the “Star Wars” films thus far we’ve been told – not shown – that Anakin Skywalker was a great Jedi before he succumbed to the dark side of The Force. The problem is, Episodes 1 and 2 seemed intent on proving that we were hoodwinked. Those two films demonstrate quite clearly that, although he possessed superior powers, there never was any genuine greatness within the character. He was little more than a bratty, obnoxious kid in a souped-up go-kart in Episode 1. And he was nothing more than an endlessly petulent, whiney, irritating teenager in Episode 2.
While that may be a solid foundation for a true-to-life villain, from a dramatic perspective it’s not the least bit interesting. In a traditional tragic arc, the audience witnesses a hero fall from greatness. The problem here is that there simply cannot be much of a fall (maybe a stumble at most) because the Anakin Skywalker we’ve been forced to endure was never great to begin with. (And no, I’m not going to take the Jedi Council’s word for it that he was.)
That’s one of the reasons why pretty much everyone but you agrees that, while he may paint a pretty picture, George Lucas has utterly lost his ability to tell a simple narrative tale. And that’s also why most of us no longer have anything invested in this trilogy beyond our knowledge and pleasant memories of the better story that is to follow. While I’m still hoping for the best, I see little reason to believe Episode 3 will amount to anything more than another 2+ hours of state-of-the-art CGI wallpaper. What a waste.
hes lost his ability to tell a tale, chester? luckily its only ur opinion. after episode three comes out and ur the first person to see it, i’ll take ur apology for mr lucas.
I think the first two prequels were a great disappointment. They started too slow and it seems like a big missed opportunity to show a lot of great things in this world. We had a great chance to see this Anakin character and I think they ruined it with this love story. We are supposed to see the greatest Jedi. The most reckless, cocksure. All we have seen is whiny and petulent. They have to hit a home run in Ep 3.
God Please, People, let’s make sure there’s spoiler warnings on any EP 3. Discussion. I’m really trying to stay spoiler free, good or bad, for the last George Lucas’directed Star Wars movie ever.
I feel like I’m in a minority in that I really, really liked Episodes I and II, but not quite with the fierceness/worshipfulness of the Star Wars faithful.
Maybe it’s because the way I saw the original trilogy is sort of odd– I saw them all about once (maybe once in full and then occasionally in parts) when I was a kid, but didn’t really see them the nerd-requisite multiple times till I was a teenager. So I hadn’t been waiting for Ep1 for my whole life, but I was very excited from the moment it was officially announced.
Maybe this is why I don’t see the newer films as being *all* that different in tone and style from the originals. There’s a certain freshness in the original trilogy that the new films can’t recapture, I’ll grant that. I’ll grant any number of weaknesses Lucas has a writer and a director; I don’t revere the man, not the way I think someone like) say Spielberg is enormously talented. I think of Lucas as more of a tech guy.
But I just *enjoyed* the hell out of EpI and EpII. I love the details of the different worlds, a lot of little funny/silly moments, the action sequences, Ewan McGregor, Watto, Sam Jackson… the last hour or so of Ep2 in particular just thrilled me. I think most complaints about the film (“bad” acting, too talky, whatever) are wildly exaggerated.
Good point, lazarus, about both the box office and reviews for the first two movies. They’re movies to which a lot of movie fans feel superior about two months after the fact. SW fans have been accused of basically forcing themselves to like the movies via repeated viewings; I think the biggest detractors of the new ones build it up in their heads as being worse and worse. Yes, there is clunky dialogue in the “love story” parts of Episode II. There’s clunky dialogue in episodes four through six, too (of course, there’s also that delightful sub-section of Star Wars “fans” who insist that only eps IV and V are actually “good”… which makes me wonder, if you only like two movies out of a five-film series, maybe you just don’t like the series as much as you think).
And Anakin in Ep1 is now characterized as “obnoxious” and “bratty”… now, you can say that the performance wasn’t incredibly strong, but when is Anakin in that movie anything but a sweet little kid?
When I read super-negative stuff about these movies, I often have a twinge of “hmm… maybe that’s right… maybe I’m just not seeing it.” And whenever I actually *watch* the movies, in whole or in bits (HBO was playing Ep2 seemingly every day for awhile), I’m struck not by the flaws I missed, but by how much I enjoy them. I don’t think not feeling disappointed with them makes me an idiot or a slavish Star Wars fanboy. Hating the new Star Wars movies isn’t a badge of honor.
You’re right, hating the Star Wars movies is certainly not any badge of honor. Just as people who don’t love them shouldn’t be criticized for it. Different strokes for different folks. I’m amazed that certain individuals (bi-bob) who despise the Matrix sequels simultaneously defend Episodes I and II, which are mind-numbingly boring, full of hilariously awful writing and acting. That’s just my opinion. I’m not bashing fanboys or those who love them. They just do nothing for me. How boring it would be if we all loved the same movies.
who has spoiled anything here? its not like the movie is out. we all know the basics anyway since we know the children have to saved, obi wan and yoda flee and anakin turns into vader somehow.
I actually feel similarly about the Matrix sequels (not that it matters) — that they didn’t really get a fair shake, based on the slightly inflated reptuation of their predecessor. Don’t get me wrong; I like the first one the best. But I think there’s so much more craft in the Matrix or Star Wars sequels than in 90% of sci-fi/action/fantasy movies that my jaw drops when they, of all movies, are what some critics single out.
It’s interesting that the whole Matrix rules/Matrix disappoints/Matrix sucks cycle took less than five years total, whereas for Star Wars took about 23, 24 years… I guess our culture just moves faster.
What I still can’t fathom is preferring the LOTR series to the others (not to turn this into an AICN-style franchise war! heh). I know people LOVED the LOTR movies, and I enjoyed them well enough, but I had so much more *fun* at (say) Matrix Revolutions or Episode I. If LOTR was less “fun” but had more substance, then OK, I’d get it, maybe even prefer it. But I think LOTR is as shallow/deep as either Star Wars or The Matrix, just a lot more solemn about it!
First of all Jesse your point is way off target. No one has said one thing blasting Star Wars, Empire or Jedi. The people making coments have focused on Phantom and Attack. Hold them separate from the original. The Matrix is just three movies. The two sequels were awful. Star Wars had two sequels which may have topped or at least came close to the original.
Jesse, I think people respond better to the “LOTR” cycle because of its humanity (despite all the Hobbits, Dwarves, Wizards and Elves). It’s about a group of people, most of whom start off as a bunch of nobodies, who rise to the utmost heroic challenges when called upon to save their communities. Of equal if not greater importance, it’s a tale whose length and pacing allowed the characters to really grow and all of the relationships to deepen right before our eyes. It’s a film saga where the CGI really served the story, and not the other way around.
I think the same was true of “Star Wars” Episodes 4-6. But IMHO the same cannot be said about Episodes 1 and 2, nor about the last two “Matrix” sequels. When boiled down, those films are all about surface sheen and dazzle, which is why they ultimately left so many audiences emotionally detached and numb. (I must admit, you are the first person I’ve ever heard describe those movies as “fun.” “Cool,” maybe. But “fun”? More like “a chore.”)
It’s easy to claim, as L&DB does, that the majority of us just didn’t “get” those movies. But, come on – putting aside all of the techie and philosophical mumbo jumbo, how hard is it to “get” stories and characters that are so shallow at their core?
Chester, you are making nothing more than subjective
statements about LOTR, SW, and Matrix sequels. LOTR
has essentially faded into obscurity because people
have either moved on or they just do not give a
fuck anymore. The CGI in that story did not serve
the story. It worked the sameway in the Matrix
sequels and the SW prequels. You just do not like
those last four movies. Thus your bias statements
about the way CGI has been used in those films.
An Chester, I just have a hard time with people like
yourself, with your clear biases, slagging four films
you clearly have not taken the time to think about.
People like Bob, can say they are pretentious or
bullshit, but that means absolutely nothing when
in reality all four of these films have themes and
stories going on, that you and many others have
clearly missed.
People just get all upset when they are told that
“they just do not get it.” As if it’s an insult
to their intellect. When it really comes down to
this; people who like/love something have a better
appreciation than those who do not. Why everyone
on the net misses this point remains a mystery to
me.
L&DB, I only have time right now to address your last point, where you absurdly and childishly stated, “it really comes down to this; people who like/love something have a better appreciation than those who do not.”
That’s like saying people whose favorite meat dish is a McDonald’s Quarter Pounder or whose favorite wine comes in a tin can have a better appreciation than those of us who know junk food when we see it.
“It really comes down to this; people who like/love something have a better appreciation than those who do not.”
You know, this is almost too easy. I mean, I guess the folks who like “Plan Nine from Outer Space” or… Never mind. Suffice it to say, Girlie Man, that you’ve made one of the all-time stupidest statements ever written on this blog. (Ranking somewhere close to “My name is Spam Dooley.”) It will come back to haunt you for generations to come
Chester, the problem with that would be? There
are few definitives but you seem to believe that
everyone, you and some people, can determine why
SW and the Matrix sequels suck. I just disagree
with that assessment because it by and large ignores
the human capacity to be spiteful towards something
they dislike. Yes. We are all objective in the
light off things we do not like. Sure we are.
Laydon, come the fuck off it. You read like an asshole
more times a day than even Mark and Bob. If I made
a stupid comment in your eyes. Good. At least I
do not read like some C-level critic asshole. Who
believes his rank amateur status makes him a major
voice in modern American criticism.
Of course, it all comes down to objectivity. That
statement, might not have had any in it.
Girlie Man: I’m having too much fun here at the Nashville Film Festival to waste time swapping insults with you. Besides: You’re doing such a great job making yourself look silly that I don’t have to bother. (Guess your mom or grade school teacher never got around to telling you the one about how resorting to vulgarities and obscenities in an argument is the first sign that it’s too late, you’ve been outclasssed.)
Laydon, I guess your mother forgot to teach about
people using words to make an analogy to an earlier
point. Thus, the whole “I guess that statement
had not objectivity to it.” Of course, you are
an old white man. Not like you or your kind have
ever had any class associated with them what so
ever. Enjoy Nashville Laydon. Truly the shittiest
city in all of TN.
And Spam Dooley should be all over you due in large
part to your clearly racist statement above. I guess
your mother taught you to associated race with
class. How wonderful that must have been.
Chester, I guess I never really saw the LOTR characters as all that well-defined. The hobbits start out good and get… more good. Braver, certainly, although it seems like they take the long way ’round on that one. Gandalf starts out wise and… dies. And comes back. And remains wise. The most dynamic character of the series (in the films, anyway; I haven’t read the books) is Gollum, who was most fascinating in Two Towers.
None of the other LOTR characters have much in the way of personality. Even though Lucas is hardly the ideal actor’s director, Ewan McGregor still gets in more personality/character with little gestures or line readings as Obi-Wan (“I’m going to get a drink”) than Elijah Wood (cool as his post-LOTR choices have been) can in 9+ hours of LOTR (“*expression of frightened awe*”).
I love Hugo Weaving’s Smith in both Matrix sequels, and I have great affection for the sleazy side characters in Star Wars (Watto, Jabba the Hutt)… those worlds just seem so much more alive to me, and far less monotonous. My enjoyment of LOTR is weighed down by the relentless nobility of (most of) the characters. It’s not smarter or more human than other sci-fi/fantasy movies; it’s just slower! And it’s certainly not better-written, just more dry (Lucas and the Wachowskis aren’t good writers of dialogue, but I think *that* goofy dialogue fits in more with the pulpy style of those series).
I guess I think of it this way: Star Wars, including the prequels, captures my imagination in such a way that I can imagine seeing (say) Obi-Wan or Yoda or Mace Windu or even Padme and Anakin off having other interesting/entertaining adventures. But I would have absolutely no interest in most of the LOTR characters in their pre-trilogy or post-trilogy lives, as my interest in them seems entirely situational.
The exception is Bilbo Baggins, and even with him, it’s more that I “know” he went on a bunch of cool adventures before the trilogy begins, not that I find him an interesting or likable character.
Here’s what I mean with my apparently trailblazing use of “fun” to describe the maligned sequels/prequels: if I went back to when I first saw (or even rewatched), Episode I, Matrix Revolutions, and any of the Lord of the Rings movies, and could somehow tally the number of times I laughed, smiled, or felt exhilerated, LOTR would come in dead last.
I personally love the LOTR films. When Frodo and
Sam are not on the screen. Why ROTK decided to
focus on those two and not Aragorn and his Posse
continues to baffle me. But PJ did not find those
scenes “fun.” Unfortunately.
Jesse, Bravo for that well-written, comprehensive, thoughtful response to my earlier posting! I can’t say that I’m in any way sold, but maybe that’s where it comes down to personal taste and where we’ll just have to agree to disagree. Still, great job!
Of course we should agree to disagree, but we all
know that never works on the internet. Here’s hoping…
LOTRs was about those two faggots relationship, if you couldnt see that your a fuckin idiot and should have your movie-going license revoked for sheer stupidity. (still allowed to see Bay movies though as long as you sit in the handicapped section).
Girlie Man: So what gives with playing the race card? How pathetic. For the record — I neither know nor care what color you or Spamster happen to be. Class has nothing to do with color, and everything to do with… well, class. Trying to turn whatever I have said to or about you or anyone else, joking or otherwise, into some kind of racist-informed remark is really beyond the pale or beneath contempt. You have crossed over a line, and you now cease to amuse me. I will no longer address you, directly or otherwise, or respond to your comments. Well, except to say that Nashville is a lovely city, and Al Gore appeared personally at the festival this weekend to give an award to an indie documentary. Al Gore — now THERE is someone with class.
Here are the facts Joe:
1) Girlie Man is a sexist comment. You are insulting
me through a show that you have called a “Girl’s Show.”
That’s just your first offense.
2) Classless comments prove you to be an elitist.
We live in the US. Where we at least try to not
have class lines that look like a Kaste system. It
does not always work that way, but your comments
are nothing more than an elitist. Which brings us
to…
3) If you live in the South. You should know better
than to say something like that. You should have
some sense, and know to what group that statement
refers. It’s racist plain and simple.
Keep calling me a Girlie Man, but at least I have
not revealed myself to be a sexist, elitist, and a
racist in fell swoop. Do not try to put this on
me. When clearly you are the one who has several
problems with many a group.
And Al Gore has no fucking class. That douchebag
represented this state for years. Yet, he bailed
out of living here, and moved full-time to Washington.
Harold Ford Jr. has class Al Gore cannot even
fathom nor would he pull a bitch move an give up.
But you are the one without class Joe. Classless Joe.
I also wanted to say to Jesse that you really hit the bullseye with your last remarks. While I enjoyed the LOTR trilogy immensely, I agree that Star Wars has a Fun Quotient that will assure its longevity over all its competitors. Yeah, there was some emotional depth in LOTR. But people will seek out family dramas and well-done RomComs for that type of thing. If you want your Sci-Fi with a little Robin Hood in it, Star Wars is going to satisfy like nothing else.
The Matrix was a great film, but I felt on both of the sequels that the Wachowski’s heads has disappeared up their own asses. The difference is that Lucas always had an idea where he was going with his story. The Matrix seemed to paint itself into a corner and became a parody of itself. I’m also surprised at your criticism of LOTR’s writing, which gets a free pass from a lot of people. Jackson & Co. had the benefit of well-thought-out source material, so any credit they deserve is that of editing. And the dialogue, whether it’s from Tolkein directly or by Fran Walsh/Philippa Boyens, is as you said dry and pretty cheesy. To be frank, I don’t find the character development in the novels themselves any better.
The difference, and this is an important one, is that Jackson is better at directing his actors, at least the ones that need the extra guidance. In Star Wars, the instinctive pros like McGregor and Neeson put in great work (and are brilliant at going beyond the dialogue with their non-verbal acting), but the younger actors, even fairly seasoned ones like Portman, are left with often awkward or “off” line readings. It bothers me when people criticize Portman, Lloyd or Christiansen, because in certain scenes or with certain lines, they nail their characters perfectly. To me it’s clear that Lucas is too impatient to wait for every line to be delivered optimally, and that’s where the deficiency is.
One final comment, and this is a bit intangible, but with LOTR it just seems too spelled-out for you. There’s not much to fill in mentally. With Star Wars people have a irrepressible urge to know more about all the characters and what happens to them in-between the movies or when they’re off camera. Lucas knows that half of his saga is what has been created in the imaginations of its followers. Being an adaptation of a classic work and sticking to it so faithfully, the LOTR trilogy remains a pleasurable memory, but not something breathing and alive, Hobbit prequel in the works or not.
Of course Joe, we could just apologize to one another,
and make John Lennon happy…
Laz, good points, but Lucas is a fine director. Taking
time with actors not always a good thing. Ridley
Scott does not full around with shots. It’s about
economy, not about making actors happy. Lucas saying
“faster and more intense” is not a bad thing. Since
he wants to capture a style of talking and emotion
seldom seen in film’s today. I believe the man
has a certain style in mind for these films, and his
direction deals with that style.
L is D and B pissed off u have a man crush on joe leydon? ur feelings and thoughts betray u
The in fighting between these two really takes away from the film discussion. Can’t you two pick a story that no one responds to or cares about? Have a little class on here and stop acting like a bunch of spoiled brats.
Did I call Bob a teddy bear? Sorry: I meant to say Rottweiler. Just scratch him behind the ear, or rub his tummy, and he’ll be happy. Of course, he might also bite your arm off, but those are the chances you take.
Speaking of dogs: I guess we can expect the announcement for a remake of “The Doberman Gang” any day now, huh?
L&DB, I’m not saying Lucas isn’t a great director, at least from a visual standpoint. He has a better eye for composition than Peter Jackson, possibly even Ridley Scott in my opinion. But if you think that his way of directing actors is a good thing you need to have your damned head examined. Some of those line readings are embarassingly off, and someone with more patience or technique with these certainly competent actors would get it right.
Yes, there is a certain style Lucas is trying to emulate, but Kirschner was able to do that while maintain quality performances as well. It can be done. I loved Episodes I and II but I can still see where they should have been better. If you can’t even acknowledge this glaring flaw, you sound completely unobjective and shouldn’t be surprised when people criticize your point of view so heavily on here.
hey joe, bark for me will u. stop scratching.
When it comes to acting in a Star Wars movie, what nobody seems to appreciate is that the advancement in technology (especially on those films)almost defines a need for a new style of acting. Or actors need to adapt their techniques, to fit with the environment.
Because there is so much green screen, there is almost nothing to play off of. Or even worse, no real actor to play off of, especially if one is playing against a digital character. I can’t imagine anyone at Jake LLoyd or Portman’s age in Phantom Menace being able to pull off a convincing performance under such technical conditions.
Acting in the prequals is like doing a Brecht play with the hokiest, ‘on the nose’ lines ever. Not to mention the difficulties of having an actor match the energy in a scene with a character to be put in later. Or even give a convincing performance when it’s a tech guy reading the lines of the digital character that you’re playing to. Actors need something to react from, the actors make their emotional choices in a natural manner by listening to the person they’re sharing the scene with. Many times the voice actor doing the digital character hasn’t even been cast yet; so the actor on set has no one else to really play off of.
One could also argue that this new technology makes need for Directors to change how they direct actors. Giving them more of a theatre style of direction so their energy will match the digital characters. Or having real actors on set to read for the digital characters (I think Serkis was on set for Gollum, which might’ve made the difference there) so the human actor can have someone to naturally play off of.
Point is, this new technology is affecting every area of filmmaking. Including Acting. People that don’t understand acting, have very little idea how acting under the conditions on a movie like the prequals is in many ways uncharted territory for even our most seasoned pro’s.
Lucas should’ve taken more time with his actors, it’ll be interesting to see what transpires. Since the Ep.III preview shows some genuine emotion. But I still argue that Directors and Actors are still finding their way with this new technology.
Forget the talk about Lucas and actors. Its tired. What he should have done was brought an A list director in for each one of the three. A Spielberg, a Fincher, a Tarantino, etc.
GdB, sorry but your very long Star Wars acting analysis had virtually no factual basis. Ask any naysayer about the Star Wars prequels and they’ll tell you that Hayden Christianson and Natalie Portman’s most laughable scenes were in fact the romantic ones where they played off each other, not a green screen or digital performer. The same held for Jake Lloyd in his scenes with Portman and his mother. It certainly isn’t true that the criticisms focused on these actors’ scenes with Jar-Jar or Yoda.
Moreover, accomplished actors should be able to acclimate to any environment. It’s not like a movie set or a theatre stage is ever a natural setting.
Finally, IMHO the absolute worst thing that any actor could do in these CGI settings is give a Brechtian, artifice-filled performance.
look back to the first 3. did u have any “love” scene more than one line of dialogue? anything between han and leia was a glance, a sarcastic line, a look. they didn’t play in fields and get deep with each other. the story took them. it wasn’t forced when they fell for each other. the anakin love thing is forced.
Also regarding Lucas, while he knows how to provide visual spectacle, he has a weak eye for composition and visual sense. He hardly moves the camera at all. Take away the spaceships and aliens and his films are boring to look at, whereas directors like Ridley Scott and Spielberg can make dust flying around in a room exciting.
Lucas doesn’t have the quantity those guys have. Tough to take almost decades off then get behind the camera again.
Yeah, can’t argue that one on the romantic scenes. What I meant when I used Brecht, is that like in a Brecht play, their are almost minimal to no set/surroundings to play off of. Just big empty space. But you’re right, that doesn’t have anything to do with how crappy the love scenes were.
this one better be like the first 3. action, some comic relief, good story telling, bad ass fights.
How can it not be great? I just think it will end up being too short. Look at all the stuff Lucas needs to cram in this one because he dropped the ball on One and Two. Anakin has to turn bad, kill all the Jedi, the Clone Wars have to end, we have to find out who Darth Sidous is, Yoda has to get to Dagobah, Obi Wan has to kill Anakin and lead to Vader, the twins need to be born and saved, etc. A lot to do in two hours. My thinking is Phantom was a waste of time. We could have started with Attack as the first prequel. Only thing we saw in Phantom was meeting an 8 yr old. We could have started out in Attack with him as a teenager. A teenager who is reckless, cocky, full of himself, and gifted.
I hope its a home run. But I have to show caution with Lucas here.
Have some faith in Star Wars. We will all be rewarded.