This is the kind of stat that I don’t really believe in, but…
When was the last time a film won Best Picture without being nominated for Best Editing?
25 years ago, Ordinary People did it.
Yes, every film that won Best Picture, even Driving Miss Daisy, got an editing nomination since then
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It shows how out of it I was in trying to be in it, acknowledging that I was out of it to myself, and then thinking, “Okay, how do I stop being out of it? Well, I get some legitimate illogical narrative ideas” — some novel, you know?
So I decided on three writers that I might be able to option their material and get some producer, or myself as producer, and then get some writer to do a screenplay on it, and maybe make a movie.
And so the three projects were “Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep,” “Naked Lunch” and a collection of Bukowski. Which, in 1975, forget it — I mean, that was nuts. Hollywood would not touch any of that, but I was looking for something commercial, and I thought that all of these things were coming.
There would be no Blade Runner if there was no Ray Bradbury. I couldn’t find Philip K. Dick. His agent didn’t even know where he was. And so I gave up.
I was walking down the street and I ran into Bradbury — he directed a play that I was going to do as an actor, so we know each other, but he yelled “hi” — and I’d forgot who he was.
So at my girlfriend Barbara Hershey’s urging — I was with her at that moment — she said, “Talk to him! That guy really wants to talk to you,” and I said “No, fuck him,” and keep walking.
But then I did, and then I realized who it was, and I thought, “Wait, he’s in that realm, maybe he knows Philip K. Dick.” I said, “You know a guy named—” “Yeah, sure — you want his phone number?”
My friend paid my rent for a year while I wrote, because it turned out we couldn’t get a writer. My friends kept on me about, well, if you can’t get a writer, then you write.”
~ Hampton Fancher
“That was the most disappointing thing to me in how this thing was played. Is that I’m on the phone with you now, after all that’s been said, and the fundamental distinction between what James is dealing with in these other cases is not actually brought to the fore. The fundamental difference is that James Franco didn’t seek to use his position to have sex with anyone. There’s not a case of that. He wasn’t using his position or status to try to solicit a sexual favor from anyone. If he had — if that were what the accusation involved — the show would not have gone on. We would have folded up shop and we would have not completed the show. Because then it would have been the same as Harvey Weinstein, or Les Moonves, or any of these cases that are fundamental to this new paradigm. Did you not notice that? Why did you not notice that? Is that not something notable to say, journalistically? Because nobody could find the voice to say it. I’m not just being rhetorical. Why is it that you and the other critics, none of you could find the voice to say, “You know, it’s not this, it’s that”? Because — let me go on and speak further to this. If you go back to the L.A. Times piece, that’s what it lacked. That’s what they were not able to deliver. The one example in the five that involved an issue of a sexual act was between James and a woman he was dating, who he was not working with. There was no professional dynamic in any capacity.
~ David Simon
It would appear only Crash and Munich have a shot at the prize if this stat is to be taken seriously.
I’d like to also mention BM was snubbed in the technical categories. Anne Hathaway’s hair alone should get a nomination in its own category.
Seriously though, thanks for the stat. Strangely the phenomenon is “recent.” In 1975 and 1978, Godfather II and Annie Hall won respectively without getting an editing nod (and who could say they didn’t deserve them!).
Oh no. You’re going to make the BBM’ers even more nervous now. Here it comes.
omg, I’m so scared. barf.
You can’t just take stats that support your position seriously. It doesn’t work like that. Instead of talking down the hard and firm facts why not just say “BBM will break the mold”?
As long as we’re throwing out stats, Dave…
(1) When was the last time a film with only 5 nominations won Best Picture? (hint: even farther back than 1980)
(2) How many times has the Best Picture with the fewest nominations gone on to win the Oscar? (hint: even less often those Pics that won without an Editing nod)
Dream on, Dear Dave…
Driving Miss Daisy is the worst Oscar winner of the past 35 years.
I really think someone read the wrong card.
David Poland said “(quote)When people start trying to rationalize how some
Please. What is he trying to say? Jesus, Munich getting a nod is like when they nominated Godfather III out of politeness. Godfather III incidentally was nominated for SEVEN Oscars! Won none of course. Now only a footnote in Sofia Coppola’s career.
Since David opened the BBM discussion, I thought I’d point you over to an article in the Toronto Star today that was rather interestings, and counters David’s claims of a no-prejudice modern society.
The Article
Let’s try that again since HTML doesn’t work on this site…
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&call_pageid=971358637177&c=Article&cid=1138575009740
What’s with the low blows at Godfather 3?
Maybe it’s not too late for Brokeback to reedit… I hope to God that Munich didn’t get an editing nomination… it wouldn’t deserve it unless they edited out about a half hour from the movie
It did.
The other 4 were Cinderella Man Constant Gardener, Crash, Walk the Line.
It’s an interesting piece.
But I have NEVER made an argument that society is without bias OR that it is easy to be gay in today’s society or in the 70s OR that it has ever been easy to come out.
It seems that people who want to spin my ideas just keep claimming it though… no matter what I actually say.
No prejudice society? Where is this utopia? Fantasy land?
If you want to prove something, you can usually find a stat to prove it. Wanna hear another ”oddball” statistic? Apparently, no Best Picture nominee that’s set in L.A., the home of many Oscar voters, has ever won Best Picture. Examples: ”Sunset Blvd.,” ”Chinatown,” ”L.A. Confidential,” ”The Aviator.” Now does that mean that ”Crash” won’t win? Who knows?
Here’s another one that a little more substantive: Eight movies that have won the PGA, the DGA and the Best Picture Golden Globe (for Drama or Comedy/Musical) have gone on to win the Oscar for Best Picture: ”Dances With Wolves,” ” Schindler’s List,” ”Forrest Gump,” ”The English Patient,” ”Titanic,” ”American Beauty,” ”Chicago” and ”Lord of the Rings.” And what’s the latest movie to win the PGA, the DGA and its Golden Globe? ”Brokeback Mountain.”
Does that mean it’s a shoo-in? No. But I’ll take ”Brokeback’s” odds over any other film.
Thanks to a TriviaChamp at Oscarwatch.com, here’s a list of NINE movies that have won the Best Picture Oscar without a Best Editing nomination:
”It Happened One Night”
”Life of Emile Zola”
”Hamlet”
”Marty”
”Tom Jones”
”A Man for All Seasons”
”The Godfather II”
”Annie Hall”
”Ordinary People”
Come to think of it, isn’t anyone else surprised that ”Good Night, and Good Luck” didn’t score an Editing nod either? It must’ve taken skill to cut back and forth between the new footage and the archival stuff, and make it look seamless.
You’d THINK that wouldn’t you? I’m glad The Constant Gardener got in for Editing though – particially makes up for missing Ralph Feinnes and Cinematography. grrr.
The reason that the editing snub was curious to me was because it was a duel job with the late Peroni. Usually they go for posthumus techs. However, it really is a silly stat (of which i understand Dave is agreeing with – how come others don’t see that?) because the editors branch aren’t the largest one of AMPAS.
Can I please put it out there that I was one of the first to be predicting Crash for Best Picture and Director? Cause I was.
By the way, the American Cinema Editors, which give out the Eddies, DID nominate ”Brokeback” in its guild awards. ACE divides movies into dramatic features and comedies/musicals. In the drama category, ACE nominated: ”Brokeback,” ”The Constant Gardener,” ”Crash,” ”Good Night, and Good Luck” and ”Munich.” ”Walk the Line,” which is up for an ACE for comedies/musicals, made the final 5 at the Oscars, and so did ”Cinderella Man.” And they wound up displacing ”Brokeback” and ”Good Night, and Good Luck.”
In GN&GL, it probably was not very hard at all to cut the archival footage with the newly-shot footage, for the simple fact that they probably shot the new stuff around the old stuff, and had every tool at their hands to make things match.
Editing is editing.
But isn’t that a sign of “good” editing? What jeff is saying is that anyone can be an editor and it shouldn’t even be a category for awards. “Good Night, Good Luck” is looks seamless because of how well it is done. Everything done well looks easy.
Wayman_Wong: “Million $ Baby” was set in L.A.
ArchiveGuy, could’ve fooled me. There’s nothing about that movie that read L.A. to me. The funny thing is that I first heard that L.A. statistic quoted last year as a reason why ”The Aviator” wouldn’t win. Saw it mentioned on various film chat boards and never saw anyone say that ”Million $ Baby” is set in L.A. You’re the first!
Blustealer, you didn’t understand what I said. It was said above that GN&GL’s editing was made even more difficult by the process of matching archival footage to new footage. I said that the movie was almost certainly designed – shot, costumed, edited, to fit around the previously existing footage. So while any good movie is well-edited, the editors of that film didn’t really have a hurdle to work around but rather were being accomodated by other aspects of production.
I don’t think settings play that much into what wins and what doesn’t.
But some people like to use that as a way of justifying the fact their their favourite movies did not win.
M$B was unmistakably set in L.A.
At least one scene outside the gym shows the Library Tower in the background, and there is discussion about the proximity to Vegas (the fight where Maggie gets ***SPOILER***ed).
It’s in L.A. but the location is not primary to the plot, as it is in Crash, Short Cuts, Magnolia, etc.
The editing stat is interesting, but somewhat silly. Another silly historical stat is looking at the number of nominations among best picture winners. In the past 60 years, only three best pics had less than 7 nominations:
1. Ordinary People (1980)
2. Annie Hall (1977)
3. Greatest Show on Earth (1952)