The AFP wire headline on th SAG Awards manages to both give short shrift to Crash, Capote, Walk The Line and other winners while continuing to obsess, however less than complimentarily, on Brokeback Mountain.
Hollywood actors snub Oscars favourite ‘Brokeback Mountain’
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It shows how out of it I was in trying to be in it, acknowledging that I was out of it to myself, and then thinking, “Okay, how do I stop being out of it? Well, I get some legitimate illogical narrative ideas” — some novel, you know?
So I decided on three writers that I might be able to option their material and get some producer, or myself as producer, and then get some writer to do a screenplay on it, and maybe make a movie.
And so the three projects were “Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep,” “Naked Lunch” and a collection of Bukowski. Which, in 1975, forget it — I mean, that was nuts. Hollywood would not touch any of that, but I was looking for something commercial, and I thought that all of these things were coming.
There would be no Blade Runner if there was no Ray Bradbury. I couldn’t find Philip K. Dick. His agent didn’t even know where he was. And so I gave up.
I was walking down the street and I ran into Bradbury — he directed a play that I was going to do as an actor, so we know each other, but he yelled “hi” — and I’d forgot who he was.
So at my girlfriend Barbara Hershey’s urging — I was with her at that moment — she said, “Talk to him! That guy really wants to talk to you,” and I said “No, fuck him,” and keep walking.
But then I did, and then I realized who it was, and I thought, “Wait, he’s in that realm, maybe he knows Philip K. Dick.” I said, “You know a guy named—” “Yeah, sure — you want his phone number?”
My friend paid my rent for a year while I wrote, because it turned out we couldn’t get a writer. My friends kept on me about, well, if you can’t get a writer, then you write.”
~ Hampton Fancher
“That was the most disappointing thing to me in how this thing was played. Is that I’m on the phone with you now, after all that’s been said, and the fundamental distinction between what James is dealing with in these other cases is not actually brought to the fore. The fundamental difference is that James Franco didn’t seek to use his position to have sex with anyone. There’s not a case of that. He wasn’t using his position or status to try to solicit a sexual favor from anyone. If he had — if that were what the accusation involved — the show would not have gone on. We would have folded up shop and we would have not completed the show. Because then it would have been the same as Harvey Weinstein, or Les Moonves, or any of these cases that are fundamental to this new paradigm. Did you not notice that? Why did you not notice that? Is that not something notable to say, journalistically? Because nobody could find the voice to say it. I’m not just being rhetorical. Why is it that you and the other critics, none of you could find the voice to say, “You know, it’s not this, it’s that”? Because — let me go on and speak further to this. If you go back to the L.A. Times piece, that’s what it lacked. That’s what they were not able to deliver. The one example in the five that involved an issue of a sexual act was between James and a woman he was dating, who he was not working with. There was no professional dynamic in any capacity.
~ David Simon
Is that the BBM backlash starting???
Okay, I’ll bite.
It is news, because Brokeback has been sweeping the precursors and this is relatively a snub. Though I agree we need to congratulate people for winning (especially fine actors like Hoffman and Weisz), but BM is news. By the same token, no one wrote about Spielberg getting snubbed at the DGA because that film has not been the awards horse throughout the season.
Why drag Spielberg into it? That’s not a good example. It would be if his movie or him were winning pre awards left and right. Seems like an unfair shot and not really relevant to your point.
Yes, Rufus, that’s exactly my point. If he’s winning everything and misses one, that’s called a snub. If he’s not and he wins one, then that is the expected outcome and by that virtue not quite as newsworthy. Does this make sense to you now?
Whoops that came out wrong. I’m simply saying that a film can only get snubbed if it appears to be winning every award. The Spielberg was not dragging him into it (I liked the film alot), just saying that he isn’t described as snubbed because he wasn’t expected to win.
What they don’t mention is that only 4 of 10 SAG Ensemble winners have gone on to win the Oscar. This isn’t much of a precursor at all, so it hardly “dealt a blow” to Brokeback’s Oscar chances.
What you have here is a news outlet trying to inject some drama into what looks to be a very predictable Oscar race.
Sorry for the third post but just to clarify, I don’t mean that as a dig against Spielberg. It’s just an example of something the news didn’t report on as a contrast.
Dealing “a blow to Oscar favourite ‘Brokeback Mountain’… That is kind of trying to create a story where there isn’t one. Why wasn’t the headline: “SAG awards echo Globes” or something like that? Nothing in the SAG awards should surpise anyone (Weiss might be a bit of an upset, though a welcome one, for me), and I don’t think this bodes poorly for Brokeback at all at the Oscars. It’s more of a directors film than a tour-de-force actors film, and while it might not win acting trophies, expect it to still win Picture, Director, Screenplay, Cinematography, maybe one or two others.
Your Spielberg analogy still doesn’t hold water. If he was the favorite and was winning everything than it would be. But he’s not and hasn’t won anything. Now it just seems like your’re dragging him in here for no reason other than to defend Brokeback over nothing. So, it lost. Big deal. It was an acting award. Not a film award. No need to try and drag Spielberg down.
brokeback mountain isnt an ensemble type film. not when u have a guy in it considered one of the favorites for best actor. its more his movie than anything else. crash has about 12 name actors playing a part and it’s a true ensemble movie. i dont think it’ll have much effect on the real races.
He wasn’t dragging Spielberg down… he was just using him as an example of somebody who was passed over for an award and it not being a surprise. He was contrasting the Brokeback Mountain SAG thing to Spielberg, not saying the two are alike.
(or she)
The problem is it is nothing like Spielberg and the comparison is off. It’s not even in the same league. Maybe Spielberg when “Schindlers List” was tearing thru the award season. But not now. It holds no weight. You can’t even contrast it a little.
The loss last night is making the Brokeback fans a little jumpy and a tad unsure of themselves. Before last night they were rolling. Like the basketball team that jumps out to a 20 pt lead. But now the other side has made a run. Got the lead under double digits. And the pressure is starting mount. Just a little. Not a lot. But it’s there. You can just feel it with all the “it doesn’t mean anything” talk.
Thank you Melquiades for getting it. Sorry for dragging out this, but I thought my point was pretty clear.
For the last time: Of course Spielberg wasn’t expected to get it. Munich has little to no awards heat. I get that. And that’s my point, Rufus. His loss was not a snub because you can’t be snubbed if you weren’t expected to win. By the same token, Brokeback not winning SAG is a snub. This was only meant to say that Brokeback losing is news even if it seems to ignore the winners. And to complete the circle, Spielberg losing is not news because it was predicted.
palmtree, we got you. It’s all right.
Bruce, you need to go on a fishing trip with Dave Poland. You love to hate on this movie, don’t you?
I like a good Oscar race and I like underdogs. I also like when the heavy favorite and their fans start losing that air of confidence they have. Other than that I’m peachy.
I still don’t see how or why you’re dragging Spielberg into BBM not winning the SAG award. So, you’re saying BBM got snubbed? Ok. Why can’t you just say that without adding Spielberg NOT getting snubbed into it? But whatever.
It was just an example, but fair enough Rufus. Moving on….
Bruce, what exactly is the other side? The non-Brokeback side? Or is there actually another film you want to win?
After reading the News Week article on the directors of the movies we are all speaking on I began to wonder. Do yall think the actors and directors do this? I ask that question honestly because I never got caught up in the Oscars like I have this year. The truth be known it’s because of Brokeback Mountain. Ok, Ok, I’m a sucker for a love storie. But, what do ya think? Is everyone just being polite at the awards?
I’m just an interested observer with no ties to any of the movies. I just like rooting for underdogs and seeing a race develop. What fun is it to watch a favorite win? No suspense for me. I do sense some of the supreme confidence of the BBM fans being zapped a little here. They’re not as sure now.
Rufus… just replace Bennett Miller with Steven Spielberg in your mind when you read that post… OK, that get you through?
I’d like to see Brokeback win just to piss off the conservatives. I don’t think it was the best movie of the year, though I do think it’s a fine film.
I like an unpredictable Oscar race, but I’d rather have Brokeback assured the victory than see drivel like Crash come from behind and win it. Ugh, that would suck.
A snub implies voters filled out their ballots to punish one of the nominees (seemingly because it’s won its share of awards or whatever), so could the headline be
“SAG Snubs Oscar Pic & Director Front Runner — Gives Awards To Obvious Acting Front-Runners!”
The conventional wisdom is that BBM is going to win Best Pic (don’t believe me? check out the Gurus Of Gold). When there’s no race, they have to come up with something to write about!
Hell, even Bob Dole got his share of intriguing headlines, but who really believed he had a shot of unseating Clinton?
If any of those films had collected more than one SAG win, they might have made it into the headline, but it was a clear spread. What were you expecting…”Crash, Capote, Walk the Line, Cinderella Man, Constant Gardener Take Awards”? The easier, more buzzy headline is the Brokeback snub.
I have seen MUNICH. Liked it a lot, great filmmaking.
I have seen CRASH. Nothing there folks except Matt Dillon’s powerhouse performance.
I have seen BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN. Liked it.
But the best film of the year in my humble opinion is THE C0NSTANT GARDENER. Just caught it on DVD last night. It is an extremely proficient, unnerving, exciting, intelligent and moving drama. It is great seeing Weisz getting an award for it, she was brilliant, but Ralph Fiennes and the Director deserve to be nominated.
It is a classic. The film was robbed.
I liked “Constant Gardener” a lot too. I think Weisz will win and that will cover it. I can accept it.
I like rooting for underdogs, too…it’s just that this year it seems like the viable options are “Brokeback” or “something else” with no clarity for what that other-choice option is. Not Munich anymore. Please God not Crash. Walk the Line?
I thought Constant Gardener was hugely overrated.
I like it unpredictable but I don’t think you will see Crash win it. I don’t think it will even get nominated. I guess we’ll find it soon. In this year, you never know. I wouldn’t be shocked to see any of a bunch of movies get nominated. The only thing that would shock me is if BBM doesn’t get nominated. That’s it.
The problem this year is there is no clear cut second choice. Capote hasn’t gotten off. Same with Walk the Line. Munich stumbled out of the gates and hasn’t got the ship right yet. Good Night, Good Luck is too little of a film. Constant Gardener was released too early. Cinderella Man was ruined by box office and a stars temper. King Kong was killed by perception and length. Some film needs new life to challenge it.
What awards has Bennet Miller won this season? The analogy works better if Ang Lee didn’t get a DGA nom. Then I’m flowing with you, Melq.
Bennet Miller hasn’t won any awards this season, and neither has Spielberg. That was exactly the point.
A “snub” can’t exist unless there is a pattern of wins building up to an expectation of future wins. Nobody would write about Spielberg (or Bennett) being “snubbed” because there was no expectation for them to win.
However, when Brokeback, which has won just about everything, is shut out for the first time at a major awards show… one of the stories is that “snub.”
So, its not really a snub for Miller or Spielberg to not get a nom since they haven’t been touted or won anything, right? That’s my point.
I don’t really take it as a snub for BBM either since this was an acting decision and not a film decision.
It would be a snub if Ang Lee doesn’t get a nom for an Oscar. Or Hoffman or Witherspoon. Like Giamatti last year. He was snubbed.
It slows down the BBM motorcade but it’s just a slight bump. It’s not knockout punch or anything and it is still safely in the lead.
To join the group, I love Constant Gardener. I think Fiennes is going to get nominated, and Weisz will definitely get nod and maybe win, toss up between her and Williams.
BBM will assure its lead tomorrow morning. It’ll get the most nods. It’s box office will increase. Its a sure bet.
But Jeff Wells posed a good question on his site. What exactly will be the surprise, if any? Ledger or Gyllenhall not getting a nod would be a shocker. No love for Clooney would be surprising. If Juaquin doesn’t get nominated would be something. My guess is that Crash will get locked out of the big awards, except for Screenplay, and Capote will have a better showing than some are predicting.
In terms of surprises, how about “Episode III” getting a bunch of tech nods? It’s the last “Star Wars,” and after an appalled reaction to Es I and II, people did end up respecting the finale, to some degree. Maybe as part of a “farewell ‘Star Wars'” gesture, we’ll actually see it rack up 5 or 6 nods: special effects, sound, sound effects editing, art direction, costume design, editing (reeeeeeal long shot, I know), maybe even cinematography… I don’t know, has anyone even been campaigning for it??? Hell, though, if it gets more than two, that will be a bit of a surprise, right?
Yeah, BM had great performances but it’s a young cast of first-time nominees with the oldest person being Randy Quaid. It’s a pretty common dues-paying. I personally don’t think it was a snub although hardcore BM lovers and haters will think so. But I can understand how the media would spin it that way (a seemingly steady pattern is interrupted).
You could have a lot of surprises. Some shocking. Like Ledger or Gyllenhall getting passed over. Or Clooney as director/actor. Or Phoenix. And you could have some good surprises. Like Fiennes getting one. Howard maybe getting two. Constant Gardener or History of Violence grabbing some. I would find the shocking ones doubtful to happen but I also thought Paul Giamatti was a lock to grab a nod last year as Best Actor. You never know with this.
I’m definitely looking for A History of Violence to sneak into a couple of those categories.
Please get William Hurt in there, Please!!!
If either Jake or Heath fails to get a nomination, I don’t know what I’m going to do. Horrible scenario. Even worse is BBM not getting Best Picture. Oh my god, my tv probably won’t survive if that happens.
I hate you Bruce, you’re putting doubts in my head.
I loved that BBM was shut out at the SAGs. Loved it!
William Hurt has a good chance in a weak field.
Just came from Box Office MoJo. I found where people can give their grade on a movie and this is what the standings were as I left.
Movie/ grade/ # of voters,
Capote/ B/ 150
Good Night and Good Luck/ B/ 278
Munich/ B-/ 510
Walk the Line/ B+/ 532
Crash/ B+/ 673
Brokeback Mountain/ B/ 1823
What I found interesting about this were the number of votes. Like or dislike more people were moved to vote on Brokeback Mountain than any of the other movies in Oscar contention.
Brokeback Mountain is the favorite. It is the hunted movie. Seems natural it will inspire the most votes.
Star Wars deserves all those tech awards. What’s its competition? King Kong? I can’t think of any other movie in its league.
Something we may forget about “Crash” — the movie could speak very directly (and very compellingly) to people who live in L.A. And how many Oscar voters live in L.A.?
A few months ago, when I predicted Matt Dillon would get a nomination for “Crash,” I got a lot of guff. Well, I’m sticking by that prediction. And, yes, I’m also predicting that “Crash” gets a Best Picture nomination, too.
Oh, I think both of those nominations are very likely. And I think Crash will definitely get a lot of votes in the end — just not enough to win anything but Original Screenplay.
Wouldn’t it be cool if Clint Eastwood is introducing BBM at the Oscars? Maybe Meryl Streep.
Oh wait, Mel Gibson. That’s it.
There are lots of people who can’t stand Crash, and those very devisive movies (Thin Red Line, Talented Mr. Ripley) tend not to do well. and by that logic, Munich will pic up some nods, but probably not fair any better.
My vote is for David Poland to channel Truman Capote and introduce Brokeback Mountain! I’m such a nerd!
“Crash” can get as many nominations as it wants. It’s still a crappy movie that is way too preachy. It’s just not an Academy Award winner. Nominee? A lot of LA voters out there.
Tcolors, I’d paid to see that.
Joe, I’m glad you mentioned the “Crash”/L.A. connection. I’ve wanted to discuss that for a while but just haven’t gotten around to it. Don’t you think it cuts both ways, though? In some ways it might hit too close to home for L.A. residents
Please don’t misunderstand: I do not think “Crash” actually will win the Best Picture prize. But I think it’s much, MUCH more likely to get nominations than other films that have fared better with many (most?) posters here.
Actually, I liked “Crash” a lot — more than the pretentious “Constant Gardener,” in fact. But I think it’s all over but the shouting: “Brokeback Mountain” will win the Best Picture award.
Danny: By the way — I actually live in flyover country. But I can’t tell you how many friends I have, gay and straight, who have told me how much they loved “Brokeback Mountain.” I’m hopelessly hetero, but I was moved by the film because of what it’s really about — the damage we cause to ourselves, and others, when we deny our true desires and hopes and dreams. When we deny ourselves the happiness we deserve.
I agree with you across the board then, Joe–at least for the moment. =)
I too currently live in “flyover” country, and as I said, I’m rooting for “Brokeback” at this point. But speaking cynically again, when the best picture wins best picture, something’s usually going on to get it there that isn’t just about the quality of the film. The actual best picture winning is usually not, in my estimation, what ends up happening naturally. Maybe I’m just too cynical. But I AM so happy that a slow, contemptlative, American art film with a real independent spirit is actually the front runner. And to be honest, I like the fact that in a way this is a poke in the eye of the Karl Roves and Pat Robertsons of the nation….
As for all the posters here still banging the drums for “A History of Violence” and “The New World” (both of which I did like very much), I agree with you. They should get ready to be disappointed tomorrow morning.
As for “Constant Gardner”, which I liked until the last reel, I’d say that’s teatering for that fifth spot against “Munich” and “Capote.”
We’ll see if Spielberg still has pull with the Academy.
I’m going to predict that Spielberg will get nominated for Director, but Munich will not get nominated for picture. I would be happiest if Spielberg bumps Paul Haggis out of a director spot.
OK, folks, we have only a few hours left: What do you think will be the biggest surprise among the nominees tomorrow? I would love to see Pierce Brosnan pop up in the Best Actor category, much to the shock of everyone.
The biggest surprise will be Gong Li for Best Supporting actress. I love her ever since Raise the Red Lantern and am sad that Hollywood has never honor this international superstar.
Surprises:
“Munich” gets 1 nomination: screenplay
“Match Point” gets 1 nomination: screenplay
After the SAG awards, not a single acting nom for “Crash”
No nomination for Jake Gyllenhall
Juliette Binoche nominated for Best Actress for “Cache”
Joe, I think your predict is a shocker that is within the realm of possibility. Then, we’d have three slots in the best actor catagory involving characters on the bi-to-gay side of the Kinsey scale. Add Felicity Huffmann, and it will be a queer night at the Oscars after all.
My prediction, not as gutsy as hepwa’s or Joe’s, of course, is that there will be a late rally for Ralph Fiennes for “Gardner,” maybe even bumping Phoenix out. How hard is it to sing flat like Johnny Cash, anyway? I can do it as well as Phoenix did, and Fiennes has gotten two previous nominations so he’s “in the club” as they say. Also, I see the possibility of a late rally for Naomi Watts for “Kong” as well. A blockbuster has to get at least ONE major nomination, don’t ya think?
going out on All limbs:
wild predictions for the odd-one-out nominations–(not necessarily what i want…but)
actress: Ziyi Zhang
actor: Ralph Fiennes for Constant Gardener
director: Cronenberg
supporting male: WIlliam Hurt
supporting female: Q’Orianka Kilcher
Wait to go: T. Howard for “Hustle & Flow”!!!!!!
And for all you “Crash” haters out there: Nyah, nyah, nyah!
Now: How long will it take for David to start spreading the news that “Munich” is still a viable Best Picture contender?
BTW: Anybody see “The Today Show”? They had Matt Dillon waiting in the wings, to be interviewed after the nominations were announced. Sure would have been embarrassing if he HADN’T been nominated, eh?
Oh my god, no love for the Constant Gardener at all. That’s such a great film.
But Brokeback is the leader so I’m happy.
Ziyi Zhang wouldn’t be considered a surprise. She was nommed at the Globes and SAG.
In my personal predictions on my blog I have gone craaazy overboard with suprises mainly cause it was so boring doing the typical thing.
Constant Gardener for picture
Wong Kar-Wai for director
Gwyneth Paltrow for actress
Thandie Newton for supp. actress
Batman Begins for adapted screenplay
Star Wars III for costume and makeup + typical ones
Munich and North Country shut out completely
but, as i said, that was mainly cause i was bored. I don’t expect many – if any – of them to come true even though I’d love them to.
I feel like the Today show did once have someone waiting who didn’t get nominated (in the past three years). Can’t remember who, though…
Biggest surprise to me was the Maria Bello shutout in Supp. Actress. And I was slightly surprised Cronenberg didn’t sneak into Director. I guess the History of Violence love was not as strong as I thought.
Constant Gardener, I felt was overrated. The performances were heartfelt and the direction had flair, but that script! Enough contrivances and misunderstood dialogue to power a Three’s Company episode.
ugh. this was at IMDb’s “news” section
“In what was regarded as an upset victory, the cast of Crash, not Brokeback Mountain, received the Screen Actors Guild Award for outstanding ensemble in a motion picture Sunday night”
Wasn’t “Crash” always the leader in that category?
crash beat out constant gardener i guess. not what i would have went with. not too many surprises at all though.
William Hurt for Best Supporting has to be a mild surprise with the lack of support for “History of Violence” in general. The Bello shutout surprised me. I thought she was a shoo in.
That headline on the AFP dispatch is a good example of “Inventing Reality”. It’s a technique that the US media have perfected.