It shows how out of it I was in trying to be in it, acknowledging that I was out of it to myself, and then thinking, “Okay, how do I stop being out of it? Well, I get some legitimate illogical narrative ideas” — some novel, you know?
So I decided on three writers that I might be able to option their material and get some producer, or myself as producer, and then get some writer to do a screenplay on it, and maybe make a movie.
And so the three projects were “Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep,” “Naked Lunch” and a collection of Bukowski. Which, in 1975, forget it — I mean, that was nuts. Hollywood would not touch any of that, but I was looking for something commercial, and I thought that all of these things were coming.
There would be no Blade Runner if there was no Ray Bradbury. I couldn’t find Philip K. Dick. His agent didn’t even know where he was. And so I gave up.
I was walking down the street and I ran into Bradbury — he directed a play that I was going to do as an actor, so we know each other, but he yelled “hi” — and I’d forgot who he was.
So at my girlfriend Barbara Hershey’s urging — I was with her at that moment — she said, “Talk to him! That guy really wants to talk to you,” and I said “No, fuck him,” and keep walking.
But then I did, and then I realized who it was, and I thought, “Wait, he’s in that realm, maybe he knows Philip K. Dick.” I said, “You know a guy named—” “Yeah, sure — you want his phone number?”
My friend paid my rent for a year while I wrote, because it turned out we couldn’t get a writer. My friends kept on me about, well, if you can’t get a writer, then you write.”
~ Hampton Fancher
“That was the most disappointing thing to me in how this thing was played. Is that I’m on the phone with you now, after all that’s been said, and the fundamental distinction between what James is dealing with in these other cases is not actually brought to the fore. The fundamental difference is that James Franco didn’t seek to use his position to have sex with anyone. There’s not a case of that. He wasn’t using his position or status to try to solicit a sexual favor from anyone. If he had — if that were what the accusation involved — the show would not have gone on. We would have folded up shop and we would have not completed the show. Because then it would have been the same as Harvey Weinstein, or Les Moonves, or any of these cases that are fundamental to this new paradigm. Did you not notice that? Why did you not notice that? Is that not something notable to say, journalistically? Because nobody could find the voice to say it. I’m not just being rhetorical. Why is it that you and the other critics, none of you could find the voice to say, “You know, it’s not this, it’s that”? Because — let me go on and speak further to this. If you go back to the L.A. Times piece, that’s what it lacked. That’s what they were not able to deliver. The one example in the five that involved an issue of a sexual act was between James and a woman he was dating, who he was not working with. There was no professional dynamic in any capacity.
~ David Simon
I’d say I’m pretty much with you on that one.
The problem is that there’s really no excuse for it. They could have made an international soundtrack with a different overdubbed line reading while retaining the iconic “American way” quote for the U.S. track. Pretty simple, obviously.
As is, it plays too coy and really stands out as cynically postmodern.
Perry White is probably, like myself and 90% of all newspaper editors, a pinko bastard. It’s totally within character for him to scoff at this self-rightious boy scout.
Personally I would have had Langella say “E Pluribus Unum” instead of The American Way. A little humor for the smart kids.
Perry White said it. At the end of a long monologue about capitalizing on Superman’s return to sell as many papers as possible.
I think the statement is not that the writer’s don’t care about “the American way,” but that Perry wouldn’t. He’s got bigger concerns, namely, circulation.
A thought from what MattMcD said, Perry White’s agenda (selling lots of papers) is like the filmmakers’ agenda, selling lots of tickets, DVDs, etc … Now, with the war and how unpopular the US is getting in the world’s view, ‘the American way’ wouldn’t sell as much according to Singer and co? I personally wouldn’t mind (I’m not American by the way) since it’s only a movie. But the studio might have minded. The irony here is that by omitting the words, a different sort of discussion is born.
Somewhere the Warner Bros. suits are wishing people were still debating if Superman is gay.
One of the major problems with this film is that Singer was trying to mix different aspects of Superman through Donner’s focal point. The movie is laced with Superman-as-Prometheus symbolism, which moves the character into a timeless, global myth.
But look at how Superman 2 ends – Superman restoring the flag, promising to never leave again. The two ideas are disparate, yet he tries to fuse them *and* layer his issues about being orphaned, adopted, Jewish and gay onto the character.
The only way for this to have worked is if Singer made Superman Americana folklore, like Paul Bunyun or John Henry, but then his global work would have been spreading “The Amercian Way”, which is something he didn’t want to espouse. Not in some anti-US way like Lundegaard would have people believe, but because it betrays Cambpell’s Hero’s Journey by making his quest a promotional tour.
Martin S., what’s the Superman-as-Prometheus symbolism? Lex gives the speech comparing himself to Prometheus, and, as many have noted, many things in the movie (most obviously Brando’s voiceover) link Superman to Jesus. But I didn’t see anything comparing Superman to Prometheus.
Enjoyed the ‘Atlas’ moment.
And am growing tired of Poland’s pounding away at this point. It was a clever character moment. End of story.
Hollywood Reporter is on it now (via Drudge).
Now onto more important things: Germany vs. Argentina!
I saw the film again last night.
I watched closely how that scene was cut. In terms of the dialogue Perry White says:
“And what about his politics? Does he still stand for truth, justice and all that other stuff?
But, the line up until ‘truth and justice’ is said on screen by Perry; then it cuts and ‘all that other stuff’ begins offscreen.
I suspect they shot the line with the American Way and Warners feared that in context of the phrase “What about his politics?”, it would imply Superman is Republican and hence they recut it with ‘other stuff’.
My friend, who I have seen it with twice now and is a staunch Democrat, agreed with me and thought it was a SuperLame reason to change the line.
I think many people who are left and right believe in the ‘American Way’. Sadly, in Hollywood I think they are afraid of it.
I would be shocked if they didn’t shoot the original version and it is laying in a vault somwhere. Put it in the DVD!
Reeve’s Superman was also a man of the world, anti-nukes, UN…but he still was a proud American. The two do not need to be mutually exclusive. Reeve’s films always referenced American in a noble way. Even in Quest for Peace.
“Truth, Justice and the American Way” doesn’t have to mean what America always is. It is what it aspires to being. I think both left and right would agree with that.
Put it in the DVD!
Also the ‘it wouldn’t sell overseas’ argument doesn’t quite wash. The Spiderman films are littered with American flags. More than most films I’ve seen recently.
I just don’t understand why people can’t just go see movies like this and see them as entertainment (which is how they were meant) rather than reading all of this sociopoliitcal stuff into every word and image… I mean, sheesh, this isn’t Munich!
Just read the Hollywood reporter piece with the comments by Dougherty and Harris.
The notion that Superman is ‘for everyone’ is actually quite silly. If that is true than he could never take a side on any issue and hence he would be rendered ‘useless’ in any conflict. If he stands for everyone, he stands for no one.
Again, these kids seem to really understand the Donner films. They do not understand much else about Superman.
Ironically enough, cutting the ‘American Way’ line calls more attention to it, which sort of defeats their initial purpose.
“Perry White is probably, like myself and 90% of all newspaper editors, a pinko bastard. It’s totally within character for him to scoff at this self-rightious boy scout.”
First of all that is patently untrue. Most scientific surveys find that most journalists and editors have political viewpoints that are moderate. Neither extremely left or right.
Perry White could still possibly be a commie pinko, and I think the line fits the character, which really means people shouldn’t be making such a fuss. But I do think it was a conscious decision – I mean I love this country, but these days it is hard to equate the American way with truth and justice with a straight face. . .and maybe it would taken more tongue-biting than Singer could handle.
Sorry Edouglas, but unless your name is Boll, Ratner or some other cheeseball, movies are not just about entertainment.
I think the “American way” line was left out because there’s some commentary about what it means to be American in the movie. I’m not sure what it is, I gotta see the film again…but I still think there’s something going on beneath the surface of this movie. I could, of course, be wrong.
But Supes is for everyone. Supes only takes a side against villiany. Everyone else, that goes to work, school, or hangs out on a bench all day, fall under the “SUPERMAN CAN SAVE YOUR ASS. NO MATTER WHERE YOU LIVE!” part of the Supes mythos. Superman is a GLOBAL FORCE. Which means; that by saving everyone around the world, and being from the US. By his very actions, he represents the AMERICAN WAY to all those he lends a hand. Of course, that would require, THINKING, and not getting all upset because of a GUT REACTION. Of course, we should never let a thing like THINKING, get in the way of FAINED OUTRAGE.
Well, I was right and wrong.
Internationalism was the key, but from THR-
“We were always hesitant to include the term ‘American way’ because the meaning of that today is somewhat uncertain,” Ohio native Dougherty explains. “The ideal hasn’t changed. I think when people say ‘American way,’ they’re actually talking about what the ‘American way’ meant back in the ’40s and ’50s, which was something more noble and idealistic.””
“So, you play the movie in a foreign country, and you say, ‘What does he stand for? — truth, justice and the American way.’ I think a lot of people’s opinions of what the American way means outside of this country are different from what the line actually means (in Superman lore) because they are not the same anymore,” Harris says. “And (using that line) would taint the meaning of what he is saying.””
I’m glad they changed it because “the American way” just doesn’t have the same meaning today. Over half of the Americans watching the movie would probably cringe knowing that.
Uh, Man Who… have you read the Dougherty, essentially copping to the politics of the choice? Was he thinking or going from the gut?
They should have included American way, but not for the politics. The entire film is built around reverence for earlier work. It just doesn’t gel with the tone of the film to toss off one of the signature lines. As someone said, by not saying it you draw more attention to it.
One element to the film not really discussed is the way the studio’s hands are all over this. Singer is given all the credit, but it feels like WB’s decision to play it safe and go with the tried and true, not innovative. And the “American way” also feels very studio…”well, it’s easier than having to ADR truth justice and the German way, truth justice and the Uzbekistani way, etc.”
Looks like another case of WB unnecessarily creating grief for itself. But hey, I’m sure they’d rather Kal-El be accused of being unpatriotic or un-American than accused of being gay. So it’s all good.
I feel a Borat commerial coming on…
I may be wrong about this — and if I am, I’m sure someone will correct me — but wasn’t the “American Way” line actually something coined for the TV show, and not in the original comic books? In fact, I don’t think it was in the old Paramount cartoons, either.
Superman was always conceived as a uniquely ‘American’ super-hero in a way that no other hero, including Spider-Man, ever was. The parallels with American flags in Raimi’s movies don’t hold up as well.
Superman is American, mosdef…
But two things shade it. One is Jor-El telling his son that he is there for humanity, not America. Maybe S just decides to work on the hegemonic country at the time. Two is Metropolis being called Metropolis. I think we all know this is meant to be NY, but since it was shot in Sydney and doesn’t look or particularly feel like NY, that’s kinda gone as well.
You’re right, it does suggest a notion that I think most Americans have, that ‘America’ actually stands for the world as a whole as a synecdoche. ‘Metropolis’ is therefore any large world city, just as it was in the Lang film.
Joe – I would have assumed that you read the Erik Lundegaard piece in the NY Times with a complete history of the phrase.
This is very simple. Did the writers consider what it means from a character perspective? No. They thought it from an audience targeted mindset.
But when you think of it from Clark’s standpoint – the adopted, orphaned, immigrant – the line still make sense. What would Kal-el be if he landed in another country? Cuba? South Africa? It’s because of America his parents can blindly adopt him, raise him in a good environment and allow him the freedom to be Superman and Clark.
But for Dougherty, Harris, and apparently Singer and Horn, an overt bias towards not just modern America, but even what they feel is an antiquated America, is typcial Hollywood snobbery and short-sidedness.
What? Read the NY Times? Surely you jest. I’ve been told time and again on MCN that it’s not to be trusted.
Drudge is reporting that Kryptonite is already being renamed “Freedom-nite” in some red states.
Are you sure, Crow? I’m pretty sure they renamed it “liberty cabbage.”
Why think of it from Clark’s perspective when it is Perry White, the man most likely to say it the line that way anyways?
The ‘Hollywood Snobbery’ comment reeks of the all too usual superiority complex that moviegoers have anymore. Like it matters. They have your money already.
It is Hollywood snobbery. Go read the piece again. Dougherty and Harris didn’t even consider the line from day one. It wasn’t debated, wasn’t researched. They knew better than anyone else what Superman should symbolize, and it’s no longer the American Way.
It’s the typical ego involved with Hollywood internationalism, which is ideological and always has a ‘put America in its place’ vibe to it. If they were talking about global parity, they could have altered “The American Way” into something more universal. Instead, a blatant omission. Hell, it would have been more interesting if he said “The Kryptonian Way” because it would have offered insight into Superman’s need to act as a contrast to human reaction. It would also have given resonance to Jor-El’s speech.