Kami wanted to talk about it… I was being shy to avoid more backbiting… but here it is…
The link…
P.S. A little preview of my Summer Preview… Hairspray‘s number on the chart will be somewhere between $120m and $150m… just so you can fight about that if you choose to…
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It shows how out of it I was in trying to be in it, acknowledging that I was out of it to myself, and then thinking, “Okay, how do I stop being out of it? Well, I get some legitimate illogical narrative ideas” ā some novel, you know?
So I decided on three writers that I might be able to option their material and get some producer, or myself as producer, and then get some writer to do a screenplay on it, and maybe make a movie.
And so the three projects were “Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep,” “Naked Lunch” and a collection of Bukowski. Which, in 1975, forget it ā I mean, that was nuts. Hollywood would not touch any of that, but I was looking for something commercial, and I thought that all of these things were coming.
There would be no Blade Runner if there was no Ray Bradbury. I couldn’t find Philip K. Dick. His agent didn’t even know where he was. And so I gave up.
I was walking down the street and I ran into Bradbury ā he directed a play that I was going to do as an actor, so we know each other, but he yelled “hi” ā and I’d forgot who he was.
So at my girlfriend Barbara Hershey’s urging ā I was with her at that moment ā she said, “Talk to him! That guy really wants to talk to you,” and I said “No, fuck him,” and keep walking.
But then I did, and then I realized who it was, and I thought, “Wait, he’s in that realm, maybe he knows Philip K. Dick.” I said, “You know a guy namedā” “Yeah, sure ā you want his phone number?”
My friend paid my rent for a year while I wrote, because it turned out we couldn’t get a writer. My friends kept on me about, well, if you can’t get a writer, then you write.”
~ Hampton Fancher
“That was the most disappointing thing to me in how this thing was played. Is that Iām on the phone with you now, after all thatās been said, and the fundamental distinction between what James is dealing with in these other cases is not actually brought to the fore. The fundamental difference is that James Franco didnāt seek to use his position to have sex with anyone. Thereās not a case of that. He wasnāt using his position or status to try to solicit a sexual favor from anyone. If he had ā if that were what the accusation involved ā the show would not have gone on. We would have folded up shop and we would have not completed the show. Because then it would have been the same as Harvey Weinstein, or Les Moonves, or any of these cases that are fundamental to this new paradigm. Did you not notice that? Why did you not notice that? Is that not something notable to say, journalistically? Because nobody could find the voice to say it. Iām not just being rhetorical. Why is it that you and the other critics, none of you could find the voice to say, āYou know, itās not this, itās thatā? Because ā let me go on and speak further to this. If you go back to the L.A. TimesĀ piece, thatās what it lacked. Thatās what they were not able to deliver. The one example in the five that involved an issue of a sexual act was between James and a woman he was dating, who he was not working with. There was no professional dynamic in any capacity.
~ David Simon
I mean, I don’t really see anything here to make me change my mind. I’m not a big fan of the musical to begin with and the movie doesn’t look as good as the show. I still don’t think it’ll make more than fifty million bucks, but only time will tell.
looks like it’ll hit big with the high school musical crowd. genuinely looks fun.
The only thing that comes to minde is Rent, The Producers, Phantom, all didn’t live up expectations box office wise.
What also comes to mind is that those three films were all slammed by critics, no?
Do you think if they all got good reviews, then they’d be smash hits? Do you really think that if the fanbase for those musicals (Rent in particular) would care about reviews if they loved the show so much? Come on, Dave, even if Hairspray is universally adored critics don’t dictate what does well at the box office (see: Wild Hogs, Norbit, etc.).
I’ve never seen the play and have no history with the property beyond what I’ve read online over the past few months; that being said, I agree with movielocke, it looks fun.
You have a remarkable ability to take whatever I write and find a perverse spin on it, Noah.
Did I write that critics would lift Hairspray – or ANY MOVIE – to box office success? Have I ever? Haven’t you read me write the opposite, in fact?
You are correct… and I have never suggested otherwise… critics are not the key to Hairspray or any other movie this summer. But to compare a movie, sight unseen, to some absolute creative failures, in spite of strong underlying source material, seems rather specific and unfair. As I often write, if the press gangs up on a film, they can hurt it badly. If they all love a film, not so much.
Wild Hogs is a perfect exammple. No one mistook it for a Good Movie. But the ticket buyers wanted to see four middle aged men on cycles getting hit in the face by birds and poop. The middle of the country wanted to see it.
Hairspray could, in fact, be a NY/LA flop and still make $150 million because of exactly what you argue.
We have learned, repeatedly, that the fanbase for a Broadway show or a book or almost any other media is not enough to create a successful theatrical release. The Da Vinci Code was a rare exception, though Sony did a good job of making it a big issue for people who didn’t read the book also.
Let me try to be clear yet again – girls… nostalgia… self-empowerment… the 50’s, which allows political issues of race to be addressed without actually being addressed… all work for this film, so long as the film works as a whole and not just as a bunch of demographic choices shoved together (which is what I feared for a year).
And let me exit with a question – What, in your opinion, made Grease work at the box office? What made The Devil Wears Prada work? What made The Break Up work? What made 50 First Dates (and The Wedding Singer, for that matter) work?
Those are the movies New Line is chasing here, not Evita or Rent or The Producers.
I was merely responding to this:
“The only thing that comes to minde is Rent, The Producers, Phantom, all didn’t live up expectations box office wise.”
– teambanzai
“What also comes to mind is that those three films were all slammed by critics, no?”
I don’t get how I’m putting a perverse spin on your words. Teambanzai wrote about how three musicals didn’t do well at the box office and you replied that they were all slammed by critics, leading me to believe that you were suggesting one had to do with the other. Is that putting a perverse spin on what you wrote?
Okay, I get it, you think Hairspray is going to be a gigantic hit because you think girls are going to want to see it. I don’t. I think they’ll be more psyched to se Harry Potter which will only have been out for a week and I Now Pronounce You Chuck and Larry which I think will have a lot of appeal to teenage girls. I think they’d rather see Adam Sandler than a musical. That’s my opinion, it’s different from yours and I’m sorry for that.
Grease is from a different era and kids today are not like kids in the 70’s, so I don’t think that’s a good comparison. Devil Wears Prada had Anne Hathaway and Meryl Streep wearing fabulous clothes in New York City. The Break Up had Jennifer Aniston (from Friends) and Vince Vaughn (fresh from Wedding Crashers) bickering in Chicago. 50 First Dates had Sandler and Barrymore in Hawaii (girls love Sandler because of this and Wedding Singer and will be excited to see him and Biel in Chuck and Larry). Hairspray has John Travolta, Nikki Blonsky and Amanda Bynes in Baltimore. You think that’s a recipe for success, I do not and once again we will see in July who is correct. And I told you, I’d be more than happy to make a wager with you.
You guys are acting like some bitches. Are your cycles in sync or what?
Just watched the trailer and I was underwhelmed. If people didn’t *get* GRINDHOUSE-the fact that it was 2 movies for the price of one and was supposed to be kinda corny and bad looking-they are NOT going to get HAIRSPRAY.
WILD HOGS did big business because it had Travolta/Tim Allen/H. Macy/Martiiiin all in a movie about something every dolt in America could sink their teeth into: Harleys. Older men not wanting to “grow up.” I just don’t see how a filmgoing public that values familiarity and homogeny over risk taking in their entertainment is going to grasp HAIRSPRAY and elevate it to “hit” status.
whoa, whoa, whoa!
what a bunch of sourpusses! so many naysayers about movie musicals. let’s see, according to box office numbers, DREAMGIRLS and PHANTOM and EVITA and MOULIN ROUGE each grossed worldwide more than many so-called “hits” that moviegoers “demand”, such as:
BIG MOMMA’S HOUSE 2, FAILURE TO LAUNCH, CHARLOTTE’S WEB, RV, MONSTER HOUSE, SAW 1 & 2, MARCH OF THE PENGUINS, DUKES OF HAZZARD, MEAN GIRLS, RAY, THE NOTEBOOK, WHITE CHICKS, ANCHORMAN, SEABISCUIT, etc. etc. etc.
musicals are just now getting back into the movie mainstream because adults are trickling back into multiplexes at a greater rate. kids will follow, especially with something like HAIRSPRAY. the casting is terrific. those of you who don’t know names like Amanda Bynes and Zac Efron and a little thing called HIGH SCHOOL MUSICAL are just old fuddy duddies. kids know what musicals are.
i have a sneaking hunch that those (especially guys) who keep whining and complaining about musicals are doing a crotch-grabbing macho dance to prove how un-gay they are. get over yourselves. people of all persuasions get a kick out of musicals. hell, they make BILLIONS, not just millions.
and i dare anyone to point a pinky finger at the pure male athleticism of, say, Donald O’Connor and Gene Kelly in the “Moses Supposes” number from SINGIN IN THE RAIN.
let’s just enjoy this fun genre and wish it well.
Noah, what does Baltimore have to do with it? Or any city for that matter? You think people genuinely went to see The Break-Up because it was in Chicago? or Prada because it featured New York?
99.9 percent of audiences have no idea where a film is taking place (outside of 50 first dates, which was blatant).
Baltimore really has nothing to do with it. I was making a point about Devil Wears Prada being set in New York City, which I think was important to that film and then I kind of just kept listing where the other films were set. But I would argue that all of those film’s locations are integral parts of the movie, not necessarily why an audience went to see them, though, you are correct.
I’m sure you’ll have your summer box office preview done before me again this year… and I’m sure I’ll agree with half your numbers again…and I’m sure we’ll both be really wrong on more than a few… and man, why does all this shit have to happen at once (busy end of April weeks, Tribeca, and the start of summer?)
Correction: I”m sure I’ll *dis*agree with half your numbers again.
“What, in your opinion, made Grease work at the box office? What made The Devil Wears Prada work?”
I’m wondering what you yourself think, DP. Are you saying it’s teen girls? I would agree with you that I think they’re the lynchpin to this movie’s success – but they’re also notoriously hard to predict. I seem to remember that a few weeks before it opened last year, you estimated that “Prada” would bomb and wondered aloud, “Who is the audience for this movie?” If you didn’t know then, I’m not sure you know now.
“they are NOT going to get HAIRSPRAY.”
How on earth are Grindhouse and Hairspray even a) remotely similar and b) marketed similarly? Grindhouse was two “bad” movies for the price of one. Hairspray is a colourful musical. What’s there to get?
I’ll just copy and paste what I said in the other entry:
“Colour me impressed. It really looks like Shankman can direct a musical. He, SHOCKINGLY, actually appears to keep the camera on the dancing and the sets. I also think they’re doing a good thing in seemingly advertising it more as a dance movie than a straight out musical. Younger people are more likely to see a movie with dancing than constant singing. Michelle Pfeiffer looks amazing. And, my eyes hate me for it, but I can’t stop looking at Travolta! There’s something fascinating about watching him in this. Utterly bizarre.”
I really think the teens will fall for this (and I don’t mean “fall” as in get duped.) It legitimately looks like a good time at the cinema.
Now, another trailer: Elizabeth: The Golden Age. Thoughts?
Hairspray the musical hasn’t transferred to the West End yet (why, I have no idea), but this trailer has left me with a giant goofy grin on my face. And though I haven’t seen any other posters pick it up, the High Scool Musical reference is very apt – the trailer is cut to make it look like that phenomenon (minimal look at the adults – tons of shots of teens dancing and singing). I don’t know if it will do the type of numbers that Dave is projecting (I could imagine $80 – $100 million if it really delivers) but it just moved right up into my top five for the summer
The gayness inside of me is trying to convince me that this movie looks fun and therefore I should go see it. Only an ignorant fool would say that homosexuality is a choice since who would willingly choose to go see John Travolta in a fat suit.
that’s it waterbucket, embrace the inner gay!
btw, it is a little known fact that Hairspray is part of the Big Gay Agenda’s crucial Summer Recruitment Drive in America’s youth. Though to be fair, Travolta in a fatsuit may not have been the greatest mascot š
Waterbucket has alot of outer gay too so that shouldn’t be a problem for him š
Kamikaze-
I don’t think GRINDHOUSE and HAIRSPRAY are similar in any way except for the fact that they’re “out of the norm” and I just get the feeling people like “the norm” much, much more.
“and I just get the feeling people like “the norm” much, much more.”
yeah, that very different trailer for Devil Wears Prada was definitely shunned by the movie going public.
People like stuff that looks good and looks fun, they don’t really like stuff that looks like it’s a pain for the audience or an attack on the audience (Grindhouse the former, arthouse tradition like Antonioni or Bresson the latter) This doesn’t make them less intelligent, it just means their culture of taste is completely different from yours, what they find to be fun (sitcom jokes and washed up stars in a roadie movie) is a lot different from what you might find to be fun (deliberately nasty looking prints and wall to wall gore).
Women made Devil Wears Prada a hit, but because the movie was fun, clever and not MegRyan unbelievable mush, guys didn’t mind seeing it either, some even enjoyed it quite a lot, I definitely did.
Kids know what a musical looks like, they’ve grown up with them, they also know what a bad musical is like and they avoid them, Producers stank (way too many lame songs, way too long), Rent didn’t work (felt lifeless), Phantom was pretty successful, but not a crossover hit. In terms of actual singing talent, high school musical is Sanjaya bad, but it is actually a really well made musical, and it’s success demonstrates how successful a construction it is. And I’ll continue to slam the movie for turning on the boy band voice machine on Ephron, or the drum machine on the girl’s solo ballad it still sells because it’s good.
On the other hand Hairspray has a tremendously bad opening weekend. why on Earth is it opening against Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows? DH will already cause one of the biggest friday to Saturday drops in BO history for HP5’s second weekend, why would anyone open any film aimed at kids or teens on that weekend? they should flinch and clear out, competing against films is one thing, competing against that book is another thing entirely.
Reminds me a lot of the trailer for “That Thing You Do.”
But here’s why this isn’t GREASE: When GREASE came out, it was about a period 20 years prior. This is about a period 50 years ago, and I don’t know any teenager who’s all that interested in his or her grandparents’ musical era. I see a lot of kids today who are into ’70s and ’80s retro stuff, but the only people I know who are big into ’50s retro are the psychobilly types my age who go to tattoo conventions.
It also doesn’t make sense to me, looking at this trailer, why Travolta is in drag. Divine was a transvestite, and in a John Waters film that casting made sense. It seems totally out-of-nowhere in this trailer.
Though I also didn’t get the point of Tyler Perry in drag, and those movies did quite well. Just not $150 million well.
“In terms of actual singing talent, high school musical is Sanjaya bad, but it is actually a really well made musical,”
It’s actually really not. Did you notice that the entire thing is about the production of a high school musical yet the big climax is the… wait for it… audition. And then there’s Ephron’s basketball buddies who all laugh at him for wanting to sing and then they get up and sing in the very next scene a mere 20 minutes or so into the movie?
My thinking about the Travolta in drag thing is that it’s a sort of nudge nudge reference to fans of the Broadway show. I mean, it is incredible strange to have someone like John Travolta as an obese woman, but audiences don’t seem to have big of a problem with it quite frankly.
Also, Grease is still incredibly popular with young audiences.
HAIRSPRAY began its stage life here in Seattle. It was a huge hit here and became even bigger on Broadway. At the last performance the show’s composer Marc Shaiman was asked why Edna is played by a man. He responded, “well, because its funny. there’s no big hidden agenda or bizarre reason here. it just works better that way.”
I saw the trailer before a mostly full showing of Fracture yesterday. I didn’t take a poll of the audience or anything, but my sense was that they really were not sure what to make of it. There was no audible laughter at all, just a couple of random chuckles here and there. My wife said she has no desire to see it, and she is a huge fan of musicals. I think this will have a very hard time hitting $150 million.
Speaking of trailer reactions, I was surprised this weekend that the trailer for Balls of Fury received a much bigger response than the trailer for Transformers in one screening that I was in. Doesn’t bode well for Bay and company (good).
Stella, it wasn’t exactly a trailer full of laughs.
OK, great. The audience, by and large, still didn’t seem to get it and I would argue did not respond well to it.