What can one say?
He will be the new Kurt Cobain. The weirdness around The Dark Knight will be unpleasant and relentless. The loss of anyone that young, especially with so much going for him, is tragic, though perhaps less tragic than many of the soldiers lost in Iraq. The New York Times hit a nasty place after rushing the news that he died in Mary Kate Olsen’s apartment… and then retracting it within an hour.
May he rest in peace.
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It shows how out of it I was in trying to be in it, acknowledging that I was out of it to myself, and then thinking, “Okay, how do I stop being out of it? Well, I get some legitimate illogical narrative ideas” — some novel, you know?
So I decided on three writers that I might be able to option their material and get some producer, or myself as producer, and then get some writer to do a screenplay on it, and maybe make a movie.
And so the three projects were “Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep,” “Naked Lunch” and a collection of Bukowski. Which, in 1975, forget it — I mean, that was nuts. Hollywood would not touch any of that, but I was looking for something commercial, and I thought that all of these things were coming.
There would be no Blade Runner if there was no Ray Bradbury. I couldn’t find Philip K. Dick. His agent didn’t even know where he was. And so I gave up.
I was walking down the street and I ran into Bradbury — he directed a play that I was going to do as an actor, so we know each other, but he yelled “hi” — and I’d forgot who he was.
So at my girlfriend Barbara Hershey’s urging — I was with her at that moment — she said, “Talk to him! That guy really wants to talk to you,” and I said “No, fuck him,” and keep walking.
But then I did, and then I realized who it was, and I thought, “Wait, he’s in that realm, maybe he knows Philip K. Dick.” I said, “You know a guy named—” “Yeah, sure — you want his phone number?”
My friend paid my rent for a year while I wrote, because it turned out we couldn’t get a writer. My friends kept on me about, well, if you can’t get a writer, then you write.”
~ Hampton Fancher
“That was the most disappointing thing to me in how this thing was played. Is that I’m on the phone with you now, after all that’s been said, and the fundamental distinction between what James is dealing with in these other cases is not actually brought to the fore. The fundamental difference is that James Franco didn’t seek to use his position to have sex with anyone. There’s not a case of that. He wasn’t using his position or status to try to solicit a sexual favor from anyone. If he had — if that were what the accusation involved — the show would not have gone on. We would have folded up shop and we would have not completed the show. Because then it would have been the same as Harvey Weinstein, or Les Moonves, or any of these cases that are fundamental to this new paradigm. Did you not notice that? Why did you not notice that? Is that not something notable to say, journalistically? Because nobody could find the voice to say it. I’m not just being rhetorical. Why is it that you and the other critics, none of you could find the voice to say, “You know, it’s not this, it’s that”? Because — let me go on and speak further to this. If you go back to the L.A. Times piece, that’s what it lacked. That’s what they were not able to deliver. The one example in the five that involved an issue of a sexual act was between James and a woman he was dating, who he was not working with. There was no professional dynamic in any capacity.
~ David Simon
I was really shocked to hear and shocked to hear that he was only 28. He really did an exceptional job in Brokeback Mountain – such a sad character portrayed so convincingly.
Every one’s talking about The Dark Knight and you can’t be help but even be more eager to see that film. I really have to wonder how Warner’s is going to handle the marketing, since the Joker seemed to be the focus of the campaign.
Sad to hear about his two year old daughter. I hope the suicide rumors are not true.
I might even see I’m Not There, now.
Rest in peace, indeed.
I wasn’t aware that he was only 28 either.
Good point about The Dark Knight’s marketing. And Dr. Parnassus. Who’s to replace him? How sad.
“He will be the new Kurt Cobain”
Nope. Sorry. I really like Ledger’s work, and it delights me endlessly that he did what he did with his career after people were taking shovels and slapping down the dirt on its grave after he made “The Order”, but that’s sooooooo far from an apt comparison.
I had no idea he was so young. I thought he was closer to my age (i.e., a few years older). I was reading an article which said he’d have turned 29 this April 4. I have a friend who’ll be turning 29 this April 4. What a bizarre coincidence. I bet I’d have never known that if this hadn’t happened. I wish I still didn’t. Sad. Very sad.
Setting aside the human loss for a second, and just speaking to the marketing of The Dark Knight, I don’t see the negative impact, except in the viewing of the movie, which is now going to carry all the baggage of seeing a dead man’s final(?) performance, maybe resulting in a line or two of dialogue being taken for more than it’s meant to be taken because of some inadvertent poignancy or irony. The circumstances of their deaths being as wildly different as they are, I thought more about Brandon Lee and “The Crow” than anything else, as far as what this tragedy means for Ledger’s film.
He’s more likely the next River Phoenix. Both young good looking talents Oscar-nominated men who peaked in gay-themed movies. Cobain represented something else entirely, I think.
The weird thing about the Dark Knighty marketing will be the chat show appearances by Christian Bale and the like. They’re gonna have to get Maggie Gyllenhaal out there even though before she would have been awkward considering the whole replacing-Katie thing. But you just know the first questions are all going to be about Heath.
The closest I can come to a similarity is when Aaliyah died months before the release of Queen of the Damned. That was a devestating loss, too. I still mourn the loss of her. Such an exceptional talent, like Ledger.
Of course there are trolls around this here neck of the woods and I really hope they stay hidden.
talented*
“less tragic than many of the soldiers lost in Iraq.”
Best to avoid the memoriam-o-meter all together. It’s bad enough at the Oscars, no need for it here.
Can’t be the new Cobain for one reason: This was an overdose/ and or suicide and Kurt was murdered.
How odd it all works: I wasn’t a fan of his at all when i walked into that theater to see BROKEBACK, but i walked out a believer. The man floored me, as the rest of the film did. I’m pretty sure it’s one of the top ten (five) performances in the last decade.
Last Sunday night, I watched the film again for the first time since I last saw it in a theater and I was floored all over again. I texted my sister and told her “he was robbed!” And it was my sister’s text that was waiting for me on my last break. Just sad and strange.
The only thing I can compare this to was when I heard Phil Hartman had been murdered. that was so out of left field and stil lI get pangs to this day when I hear his voice on The Simpsons.
Kami, I instantly thought of River Phoenix too, right down to the My Own Private Idaho/Brokeback comparison.
I’m still kind of in shock about all of this. Every single day, I wake up and expect to read in the papers that Lindsay Lohan or Britney Spears overdosed or died, but Heath Ledger? Never crossed my mind. I suppose the really tortured souls aren’t always the ones who are out flaunting their depression or wearing it like a badge of honor. I don’t know the details of Ledger’s death, whether it was a suicide or accidental overdose, but he was clearly struggling with some demons and kept them to himself.
I’m sure in the next few days and weeks, we’ll hear more and more about the reasons and such, but the truth of the matter is that there is no good reason for a talented actor – and father to a young child – to die so young.
At least he’s left behind an iconic role with Ennis in Brokeback Mountain. Thousands with longer careers cannot say the same. I’ll miss you so much Heath. I swear…
First off; Actor, soldier, and anyone else who dies at 28 is TOO DAMN YOUNG. Yes Ledger was on his way to being one of the best actors of this or any generation. Yet his age — his young age — is what makes this so damn sad. The same with anyone stuck down in their youth. It’s just sad. May the universe greet him with open arms. Godspeed.
The dude had pneumonia, so who’s to say he tried to kill himself?
Brack; it’s that fucking London weather. It took Jim Henson. Now it may have taken Heath’s life as well. Bloody hell.
Totally correct, IOIO. Too damn young.
Such a talent. I looked forward to enjoying his work for years.
Prayers for his family.
Putting aside the tragedy of Ledger’s passing for a moment, as to the Dark Knight we are still half a year away from the thing being released. If anything, Warner will push back the next theatrical trailer but as to the film itself, I don’t changes – if any – are going to be made. Just a cursory look around the internet and many fans, while respecting Ledger’s passing, are hoping that no changes are made to the film. It will definitely be an oddly affecting light in which to watch to the film, but it will undoubtedly be a crowning performance in an all too-short career.
“The New York Times hit a nasty place after rushing the news that he died in Mary Kate Olsen’s apartment… and then retracting it within an hour.”
This is the problem with our f&%ked-up Internet news cycle. Everyone rushing to be first, when details about this stuff and the “truth” are never actually revealed until at least 24 hours after the fact, if not later. It’s forcing once-respectable outlets (The Times) to lower their standards to this horseshit level. Disgraceful.
“Can’t be the new Cobain for one reason: This was an overdose/ and or suicide and Kurt was murdered.”
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I thought Cobain stuck a shotgun in his mouth. Was it ever proven otherwise?
I can’t flip past Brokeback on HBO without watching at least 20 minutes of it, and Ledger’s performance makes me cry every time.
He brought such an authentic sadness to that role, along with Monster’s Ball and I’m Not There. Few young actors have the gravity that he had.
There are extensive Cobain Conspiracy Theories all of which basically seem to run with the premise that Cobain was about to leave his wife, who then had him killed and a suicide staged so she could get the money.
Elvis Presley is not working at a gas station in Tucson. Kurt Cobain comitted suicide. I was/am a huge fan of Nirvana and really felt it when Cobain killed himself. But he did kill himself. If you read his diaries, a different Cobain emerges from the one of the rebel that was sold to us. The fact that he committed suicide is not hard to believe. He was quite self-absorbed.
We have no idea what really happened to Ledger. Like Michael Hutchence, we may never know. Just watching TV last night on different shows I saw two different commentators make convincing arguments for both sides.
I know now they are saying the autopsy was inconclusive. Who knows what the truth is.
If it was a suicide it does not make him any less talented or the situation any less tragic. Perhaps more so for everyone involved.
I think Ledger’s legacy will outshine River Phoenix’s though. Phoenix, while talented, was still a teen idol who really did not have a body of work that will last. Other than Stand By Me and his opening in the last Crusade, he really did not have many films of importance. Hey, I love the Mosquito Coast, but it is not remembered and neither is Idaho outside film circles.
Ledger actually had films he was featured in, in adult roles, that will last. Brokeback, The Patriot, A Knight’s Tale etc. were films that connected with people. The Dark Knight will be huge. His legacy will be longer.
Journos have always tried to be first with scoops, internet or print … damn the accuracy, full speculation ahead.
I’m going to damn the Daily Mail most, which rushed into the fray with pronouncements about heavy drug use and other unfortunate claims about Ledger, all based on that ubiquitous un-named “insider” we hear about so often. A number of more legitimate news outlets have picked up the sensational claims of the UK tabloid and printed them as if corroborated, which they are not.
The autopsy today will answer most questions. I can wait.
I think a lot of the early coverage used journalist knowledge on Ledger — information that was fairly well known within the industry (yes, there are stories journalists can’t report because there aren’t credible sources for the record or it’s just pointless information to discuss unless you’re a low-end paper). I think some of you are ruling out his addictions a little too soon. Pnemonia is a convenient way to wash over other deeper issues.
Nicholson’s response seemed particularly…odd.
Ok I might get tapped as being cynical here but if his performance in The Dark Knight is as good as people say does he get an Oscar nod and a win with Michelle Williams accepting for him?
He didn’t kill himself. He was, at worst, delusional from the lack of REM sleep combined with never-ending travel. The guy was never, ever built to be DiCaprio which always put him at odds with his handlers. They pushed him into Spider-Man because he was Pascal’s choice, and he took himself out. IIRC, he did a similar thing with Anakin. The guy never craved mass stardom, but everyone around him did. I didn’t care for his choice of roles, but I came to respect him when he went after the marketing for A Knight’s Tale during the Patriot press run.
The problem for Dark Knight, is that Bale, Nolan and everyone’s reps talked him into Joker. Bale is on record as suggesting him for the gig to Nolan and talking to Heath about it. Now, the press keeps citing Ledger’s NYT interview about the effect the role had on him. That is going to be hard for Bale to escape.
Martin, it’s naive to suggest, in so many words, that the role in the Dark Knight killed him. It does a tremendous disservice not only to Ledger, but to the people he has worked with and to people who genuinely suffer from addiction and depression to point to something ultimately as frivolous as film as the reason why he took too many pills, suffered from insomnia, anxiety or whatever else you want to attach to it.
Ledger was an adult and made his acting and lifestyle choices by himself. It’s too bad he didn’t reach out for help, or take time for himself to try and heal and find a way he could live and work comfortably.
Montreal,
http://www.darkhorizons.com/news08/080122j.php
It’s not my suggestion. He took a role, that, when you compare the above with what he later said to the NYT, had a drastic effect on him, physically. Very much like De Niro after Bull or Taxi Driver. The Dark Knight shoot was scheduled so he could go right from that to Gilliam’s movie. Add in all the traveling, without the time to decompress, he ends up relying on pills to sleep. Not depression, not some addiction. He was trying to meet the rigors of being an A-Lister and a true method actor, and it took its toll. And if you think a guy who’s coming off an Academy nod wasn’t getting pressured by the people around him, then this a truly a case of the pot calling the kettle black.
And the NYPD now says it looks like an accident.
I am truly disgusted by how many people want to attach depression, addiction or suicide to this poor guy because it creates this romanticized tragedy. He screwed up. It cost his daughter her father. He’s not Cobain or Phoenix, but closer to Brandon Lee. A hard working guy who ends up dying by mistake.
Martin, what you say is 100% plausible. It absolutely could have been what happened. But how do you know? How do you know that’s what the story is when nobody else seems to?
You’ve taken some of the information we have and come up with a perfectly plausible inference about the full story, but that’s surely not the only perfectly plausible inference that can be made.
I would make the same criticism of those who jump to attach depression, addiction, or suicide to the matter. But they could be right, as surely as you might be.
Let’s just wait for the facts and leave unknown what’s unknown.
“I think Ledger’s legacy will outshine River Phoenix’s though. Phoenix, while talented, was still a teen idol who really did not have a body of work that will last. Other than Stand By Me and his opening in the last Crusade, he really did not have many films of importance.” I’d counter that with Running on Empty – awesome film which really marked Phoenix’s coming-of-age. This may be pure conjecture, but had Phoenix lived and straightened out his head and his lifestyle, i think he’d be the biggest movie star on the planet right now, far beyond where Smith / DiCaprio and co. are now. So sorry to hear about Heath all the same, though.
Martin S,
You are saying things you or anyone cannot definitively know.
You seem to be in denial and want to blame anyone or anything but Ledger. Look, I have no idea what really happened. Maybe it was an accident, maybe it was suicide. Even if it was suicide we might never know. I also find the autopsy report as inconclusive, odd. I mean didn’t Sean Penn have Chris Penn’s death listed as ‘natural causes’ when we all know that is not true.
But there does seem to be a creeping theme emerging on many chat boards to romanticize Ledger as some victim to Hollywood’s demands. It was Batman who killed him! No, it was the star machine! Wait, it was his handlers! Anything but the remote possibility that it was Ledger who killed Ledger.
Again, I have no idea what happened, but I do find the extreme reluctance of some quarters to reject even the notion of suicide and the romanticizing of him odd.
Martin,
“Bale is on record as suggesting him for the gig to Nolan and talking to Heath about it.”
Do you have a link to this record? All the interviews with Ledger I’ve read are of him talking about how he and Nolan tried to work together for years. Then they sat down together, had the exact same approach for the role, and it was a done deal. It doesn’t sound like Ledger has been pushed into ANY role in quite some time now.
Not to mention that Ledger & Bale didn’t work together (on set) before The Dark Knight.
No matter what pressures he might have faced, in the end Ledger was an adult and the only one responsible for his actions. As hard as that may be for some people to accept.
Ledger was a known coke addict, plain and simple. It wasn’t his role that killed him and it probably wasn’t an overdose on sleeping pills either. It was likely mixing drugs. But really it doesn’t matter because the fact is this is another careless death of a young star with major aspirations. Senseless and sad.
So why don’t you link us to a story about him being a known coke addict?
Oh, and if he had died in a car crash, would we be saying ‘He shouldn’t have been on the freeway late at night when it was raining’? Sometimes, people die, and it’s nobody’s fault. We don’t know what happened in this situation, but the desire to pin blame is just as obnoxious as the flipside.
a few rules of common sense that I wish people would take into account when a tragedy happens like this to a celebrity.
1. It isn’t about you.
2. Posting “theories” that have been cobbled together by tabloid rag sheets (and that includes vultures like TMZ and even so called reputable news outlets like CNN and Fox that have embraced that mentality) have irresponsibly posted less than 48 hours after their death of the individual just further fuels the fire of ignorance and rubbernecking that permeates our sad celebrity obsessed culture.
3. Despite what Michael Clayton says, the truth cannot be adjusted, and the only one who will ever know the truth is the departed.
I doubt his family gives a damn what this means for the marketing of the Dark Knight or his uncompleted work in Gilliam’s film. Why should you?
See rule #1.
While everyone sorts out the various conspiracy theories, I’d like to put in a word for the wonderful and underrated Lois Nettleton, who passed away Friday at 79. She and Pleshette were two of the last of those fabulous “broads” who stood toe-to-toe with men and frequently bested them. In an era where the female ideal is a helium-voiced, scrawny blonde with the IQ of a soap dish, their passing leaves our culture more barren than ever.
“I doubt his family gives a damn what this means for the marketing of The Dark Knight or his uncompleted work in Gilliam’s film. Why should you?”
You know what, I have not mentioned any of these things but that comment pisses me off. This is a website devoted to seriously talking about the film industry from a business perspective. As long as it is done with respect and intelligence, I personally have no problem with people talking about those things.
Quite frankly, I get tired of so many of the people here who are supposed to take film seriously but then act like a bunch of teenage girls when we…well, y’know…take film seriously.
Again, glib comments are appreciated by no one, but to smugly pull the holier than thou card that people on a business film site should not talk about the business of film when something extreme happens is just arrogant.
What happened to Ledger is tragic. But to say that we should not care about the state of The Dark Knight or Terry Gilliam’s film is just silly. Of course we care. That’s why most of us come here as opposed to just watching ET. Perhaps you found the wrong board.
…and my ‘teenage girls’ comment will probably piss off the usual suspects more than anything I have written in years.
Nicol; word. What happened yesterday is most likely the first sad day of a year long story that leads back to the Oscar nominations. To assume that people would not be interested in discussing what the death of this talent man will mean to Terry Gilliam and The Dark Knight, is a bit daft.
Nicol, it’s not wrong to wonder, but the care and concern some people seem to be taking with it is almost sycophantic.
I’m not talking about here, but around the web in general. But here’s what will happen.
The Dark Knight will be released. Some edits may occur, though i doubt it.
Gilliam’s film will probably recast the part.
It doesn’t really warrant as much discussion as it’s getting. The conversations had all over the web right now seem like little more than armchair film types seeing some kind of problem where there is none.
The next iteration of our celebrity obsessed culture has been an obsession with the mechanics of the business. One comment i saw on another board read:
“I hope he’s finished all his dubbing.”
Does any of this contribute to the enjoyment of his work? Is the tragedy here that there might be a few off camera line readings that would have to be scrapped?
Sure, we all love film, but some people claim to love it to the point where it clouds all rational thought. Looking at various film sites, this seems to be the case.
I’m not chastising anyone here. I enjoy this board because there does seem to be a cerebral quality to the posters. When i surf the net and see people saying “I guess he could quit you”, well, that’s who i was referring to.
Talented and yes I mean toward Terry Gilliam. As a filmmaker… this man has been in a rut and this film with Heath may have turned it around. Now he’s back at square one.
Talented and yes I mean toward Terry Gilliam. As a filmmaker… this man has been in a rut and this film with Heath may have turned it around. Now he’s back at square one.
Like his other film with Heath turned it around for him?
Cadavra, I had no idea about Lois Nettleton. She was great, especially in that Twilight Zone episode she appeared in. Thanks for the mention.
Pet; you work for Film Threat. Please tell me you folks know something about The Imaginarium of Doctor Parnassus. Come on man. Forget 2005. I know that I have.
I don’t understand the consternation over discussing the effect his death has on films that involved his work yet to be released.
I did not know Heath Ledger. I did not know his family. Everything I knew and cared about the guy was contained in his work. I will not play the role of phony widow, tossing myself on his coffin in a fit of bullsh*t emotion.
Of course I’m sorry this happened, regardless of the how. Of course I wish his family and friends nothing but the best in dealing with their grief. I’m sorry that anyone’s child would grow up without a father.
But otherwise, yes, my biggest concern where Health Ledger’s passing is concerned is first over The Dark Knight, and second over what would have been a fantastic film career. You know why? Because that’s the only connection I had to the guy.
I’m not heartless, and expressing pretend concern and outrage over the internet for someone I’ve never met doesn’t make me a better person than anyone else.
On the matter of dubbing, I remember when Aaliyah died they got, I think, her brother to do last minute dialogue dubbing. And considering what they did with Oliver Reed in Gladiator I’m sure they’ll be able to think of something. It’s not like they don’t have a budget.
On the Oscar thing. James Dean was nominated twice posthumously and he didn’t win either of them.
There’s always trolls like euguy.
Amblinman they don’t like to hear things like that here.
Amblinman made a well-reasoned point, delivered with politeness and respect. Others didn’t.
Jeff, no, Sunday Silence did not. That’s the point. The dick not getting he’s a fucking dick. Again, as a fan of the man’s work, and as a person who appreciated another person performed in such a way that moved me. I can feel a certain way. Stating that people cannot is total and utter bollocks.
His friends admit he had substance abuse problems in the past. Ambien is also popular with addicts. As it wasn’t an overdose then it probably was a result of mixing drugs. It’s a damn shame, the news hit me like a ton of bricks. He came off as uninterested in stardom but truly enjoyed improving his acting by taking some challenging roles in independent features. To be so handsome and not be conceited or egotistical made him all the more likeable. His Brokeback performance will live on in history.
I don’t get excited by comic book movies but I was looking forward to his Joker performance. The white makeup brings to mind Brandon Lee’s performance in The Crow, where watching the movie was a bit uncomfortable with not being able to separate his untimely death with moments in the script which brought to mind that fact. Batman is such a huge property that I don’t think they need to do any personal promoting but it depends if Christian Bale is comfortable doing appearances in honor of Heath’s memory. Out of respect to his death, they’ll probably concentrate more on Batman in the ads. As for Gilliam’s film, I read that the crew has been let go. They were do to blue screen work in Vancouver, but I’m not sure if they have enough filmed to salvage the movie. Supposedly, the $30 mil financing for the movie was gotten based on Heath’s involvement. It’s a shame the Brothers Grimm was a disappointment but was hoping this would’ve been a return to form especially for Gilliam.
I regret that some of you think I’m a troll. I have nothing against Ledger, but I think I can reasonably put this into context as it matters to the public at large. Basically, it doesn’t.
As for the comment I made about his use of drugs (namely cocaine) I’ll let the autopsy speak for itself when the results are released. Being relatively familiar with some of his past I’m confident it’ll show he mixed pills with powder. Sad but true.
As for his addictions not being reporting in the media, Jeffmcm, if you have any familiarity with celebrities and the industry you’ll know there’s lots of deep, dark secrets that don’t end up on the pages of the Equirer. Unless Ledger was doing his drugs in the centre of a paparazzi-infested club, chances are it wouldn’t show up in the papers.
Which is as it should be, since anything else would be unconfirmable rumors.
He’s barely been dead for 72 hours so even if it was a drug overdose or whatever kind, just have some freakin’ decently and let the man have some dignity. It’s not hard. Christ.
Whether you’re sad or not don’t dismiss everyone else’s emotions as “pretend” just because you feel you’re above it all. You don’t know Heath Ledger! Good for you. You don’t know me either, so stop telling me what I’m feeling and what I’m not.
“Whether you’re sad or not don’t dismiss everyone else’s emotions as “pretend” just because you feel you’re above it all. You don’t know Heath Ledger! Good for you. You don’t know me either, so stop telling me what I’m feeling and what I’m not.”
The only folks I’m addressing with that comment are those taking anyone to task for “worrying” about the fates of The Dark Knight and Gilliam’s film. If the shoe fits in that regard, you can dance with it on all you want.
Evidently you can’t read because I didn’t suggest I was above it all, rather I’m *separated* from it all because I don’t know the guy. I do get to see his films, however, so forgive me if my interest lies in that arena.
One of the problems in this country is there are too many people that want to make other folks’ grief about themselves.
Amblinman, I don’t think you were being addressed re: the ‘above it all’ comment.
No, he was.
My mistake, I thought it was firmly at Eoguy and Sunday Silence. Sorry.