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David Poland

By David Poland poland@moviecitynews.com

BYOB – Weekend 2/1 – Political

Hannah will earn Montana… yawn.
There must be something worth talking about, but I don’t see it.
I was up late watching the rerun of the Democratic debate last night… and suddenly, as reflected in today’s Hot Button (I seem to be writing a monthly now), I got the stirrings of the first great election cycle of my adult lifetime. The idea of McCain, a psuedo-centrist Republican representing the military that learned from Vietnam and old white men versus Barack Obama, the first black candidate who is a true charismatic and doesn’t have to grin from ear-to-ear while trying to convey warmth… with so few, but such strong distinctions between the side… wow… that would be a race.
But that’s not about movies, is it?

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44 Responses to “BYOB – Weekend 2/1 – Political”

  1. Citizen R says:

    McCain versus Obama would be a great contest, but it’s probably going to end up being McCain versus Clinton.

  2. T. Holly says:

    Good stuff: “a true charismatic and doesn’t have to grin from ear-to-ear while trying to convey warmth…”
    Mindbender: “with so few, but such strong distinctions between”… McCain and Obama, “that would be a race.”

  3. Crow T Robot says:

    Just had to walk over to the Kodak yesterday to take some pics of all the history going down. I guess I’d describe what was there for Hillary as “polite support”… her women and effete guys waving signs dutifully. But Obama, he had something akin to the Orc army in The Two Towers behind him… a drum banging, horn blowing, roaring horde… and surprisingly, his Latino support was formidable. We tried staying “cool dude” objective but soon got drafted into holding banners for a couple of older black women. Hunter S. Thompson would have loved this scene.
    Also, saw what I think was your buddy Jeff Wells, all in black and sunglasses, chatting up a covey of policemen. He’s a tall fucker.

  4. MarkVH says:

    Great THB column, with one caveat – I’d say Juno is more akin to Ron Paul than Kucinich, since people are taking it more seriously and it’s hanging around for the long haul. Probably no shot to win, but having it in the race has made things more interesting.

  5. Nicol D says:

    A few thoughts…
    I have no stake in the Democratic nomination but a few things struck me last night.
    Hillary was the clear winner of the debate. I say this as someone who has no love of the Clinton years and 60’s generation they represent…but she won in my mind. She was far more complex and substantive and her policies were very easily layed out.
    Barack is indeed charasmatic, but, I am sorry, his naivete shines through like a beacon. He relies far too much on platitudes and short stories (which still might work, mind you) and when pressed to explain his policies, cannot do so in a way that is as cogent as Hillary.
    This is where her experience clearly shines through. I disagree with much of what she stands for but she is no dumb woman. Barack, seems to have very little knowledge of how the world really works and is going more for the importance of what he can stand for. Yes, he sounds great…but there really is not a lot of complex thinking there.
    The other thing that seemed lost on many last night was the pure irony of the two candidates talking about the poor, the working class, the rural while sitting before an audience of some of the wealthiest elites in Hollywood and media who know very little about what those demographics go through.
    Regardless, I think the election is the Dems to lose in 08. Similarly, it will be a tough fight but I will be shocked if we do not get Hill and Bill for at least 4 years.

  6. Nicol D says:

    Forgive my numerous typos in that post. It was a long night.

  7. Stella's Boy says:

    “The other thing that seemed lost on many last night was the pure irony of the two candidates talking about the poor, the working class, the rural while sitting before an audience of some of the wealthiest elites in Hollywood and media who know very little about what those demographics go through.”
    Kind of like when Bush and other Republicans talk about “compassionate conservatism” right? Because they know what it is like to be poor, what those people go through.
    Reading your description of Obama, I found it amusing how much of it sounded like criticism of our current president (lack of knowledge, lack of complex thought. etc.).

  8. Nicol D says:

    “Because they know what it is like to be poor, what those people go through. ”
    Well, isn’t it the poor and working class that now vote Republican in general? Isn’t that why we say Republican voters are dumb, un-enlightened and uneducated?
    I’m just sayin’.

  9. Stella's Boy says:

    I certainly don’t think Bush & Co. understand or care about the poor and working class any more than Obama and Clinton do. Do any of the current candidates?

  10. Nicol D says:

    They understand one thing about the poor that Hillary and Barack do not; that the desire of most poor people is to – not – be poor. To have opportunity to rise up. Not be controlled by institutions of government and have their poverty romanticized with class warfare union rhetoric.

  11. Stella's Boy says:

    You don’t think Clinton and Obama understand that poor people would rather not be poor? That is a stretch Nicol. I think you’re drinking the Republican kool-aid on this one. I don’t think Bush or Romney or McCain give two shits about poor people, nor do I think they care about whether or not those people ever “rise up.” They’ll pander to them and take their votes though.

  12. L.B. says:

    “They understand one thing about the poor that Hillary and Barack do not; that the desire of most poor people is to – not – be poor.”
    While I agree that- as with just about every single election ever there is- you have rich candidates trying to connect with poor people, I don’t see the validity behind this argument. I’d almost be willing to concede it for Hillary, but that’s because I really can’t stand her campaign and would be nothing but bias on my part. I don’t really see this as their modus operandi.
    And I’m really tired of the “class warfare” charge. Or, at least, I don’t understand why it’s class warfare to talk about the nature and use of class in American society, but not when you actually practice class warfare through economic and social policy.
    I’m not trying to set up a Dem vs. Rep fight because I honestly couldn’t care less about the party aspect of this anymore. But this generalization always annoys me.

  13. Nicol D says:

    The Dems since the 60’s (when the became Marxist influenced) have always seized on the class-warfare aspect of struggle.
    Look at when Obama was asked whether excessive illegal immgration affected the availability of jobs. Now a proper answer would be, that it – can – affect jobs, but there are many other factors as to why people might also not find work. Instead, he refuted this outright saying it was – only – the fault of unscrupulous employers. Really?
    If there are 100 jobs for 100 people and 50 people come in illegally it has – no – affect on the job availability? That is the kind of ideological generalization I am talking about. Hillary was a bit more complex. But she has more experience.
    And if the Dems do not like the class warfare charge then they should distance themselves from Marxist students and Hollywood actors who associate with Chavez and Castro; but that is thier base.
    I am not trying to pick a fight here; but I do get tired of the ‘we stand for the working class’ rhetoric when the working class are no longer the Dem base.

  14. Stella's Boy says:

    Just as I am tired of the “compassionate conservative” rhetoric and Republicans pandering to the working class. So I guess both parties are full of it.

  15. L.B. says:

    Except that he didn’t say it was only the fault of unscrupulous employers. He pretty clearly stated that it was misguided to scapegoat illegal aliens (or immigrants in general, which has often been the case historically) when the larger issue is the decrease in sustainable jobs and a stagnating economy. Not really a simplistic answer and one that refused to engage in an “us vs. them” scenario.

  16. Citizen R says:

    I have a more sanguine outlook: most Republican and Democratic candidates for president alike care about the poor and the working class – they just have different opinions on what policies would best help them.

  17. hendhogan says:

    “So I guess both parties are full of it.”
    yes, so nice when that’s recognized.
    i admit i did not watch the debate. i’m exhausted by the year and a half of politiking we’ve been exposed to. i’ll start making decisions after the primaries are over.
    but i did have a conversation about the candidates yesterday. i do not see the election as the dems to lose, actually the opposite. there’s so much vitriol being spilled prior to the primaries, i have a hard time thinking the party will unite under the eventual victor. can anyone see an obama/clinton or clinton/obama ticket? i think edwards probably has the best shot at veep candidate as long as he keeps his mouth shut and doesn’t endorse anyone til after the shakeout. i also see a lot of campaigning against bush (which is great except he’s not running), several mentions within this thread.
    it would be nice if either side were fighting for an ideal, but that seems to have been lost a while ago. it’s all about getting elected and then getting re-elected.
    the last time i voted for a candidate (as opposed to against the other), i voted for clinton. he promised to be a new democrat that would stick to the middle. once elected, it was business as usual pandering to the far left. i was very disappointed.
    i would like to vote for a candidate again. considering the choices, i do not see that happening.

  18. jeffmcm says:

    Nicol, you could use a little more nuance yourself in your standard ‘I hate Hollywood’, ‘I hate the 60s’ points that you bring up so often. I’m not trying to pick a fight either – I’m just telling you that your arguments have gotten predictable and nobody else is discussing these points in the general discourse.

  19. IOIOIOI says:

    “They understand one thing about the poor that Hillary and Barack do not; that the desire of most poor people is to – not – be poor. To have opportunity to rise up. Not be controlled by institutions of government and have their poverty romanticized with class warfare union rhetoric.”
    Controlled by the institutions of government? Here’s a part of the declaration folks like Nicol always forget; “FOR THE PEOPLE… BY THE PEOPLE.” It’s the government. Why the Republicans want to be in control of something, that they want to destroy to it’s very core. Always seems a bit dense to me.
    It also seems a bit dense to go on about cutting taxes. When taxes pretty much provide the backbone of this nation. Maybe if we paid a bit more. Something epic would be happening in this country instead of the same old shit.
    Of course that will never happen because of shitkicking Republicans that want to scare the kids and the mothers, and keep the kids from getting proper health care.
    People like Nicol D need to realize that they are the darkness and Barack means bringing LIGHT to your unworthy asses. Old woman Clinton will just be a Rove-clone in Demo clothing. While Barack may be this generations chance to see a GREAT PERSON in the white house. That’s what this is all about… someone great replacing an utter piece of shit. If you cannot get behind that heady. Maybe we should ship your ass to Belgium. They could use someone so indecisive and wishy-washy about “candidates.”

  20. hendhogan says:

    IO:
    seriously?!?
    i mean i should be able to tell because you backed up your points so elegantly (and with facts to boot!).
    obama may be a GREAT PERSON in the white house. of course, i haven’t noticed anything that would make that definitive (albeit i haven’t really been paying attention). to me he comes across as just the same as any other politician i’ve seen (and i’ve been voting for over 3 decades now).
    so, if we’re kicking people out for being so blind, can i at least have the option of going to australia? or is it belgium or nothing?

  21. IOIOIOI says:

    Heady, I was making a rathering silly argument about the Flemish. A shame that you did not receive what I was dishing out. So to speak. A ha. Nevertheless, there’s nothing SAME or SIMILAR with Obama. Please pay attention more. Or I will have to tell the attendant at the front gate. Tally ho.

  22. hendhogan says:

    that’s headley.

  23. I know it’s everywhere and sooo passe…but this is frigging amazing:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6KmIM4NGzQ

  24. sloanish says:

    I happened to catch the Damon thing on TV last night. It is undeniable. Especially when he dances.

  25. The Pope says:

    I’m not American and so, have never and will most probably never vote in any American election. However, I fear that difficult as the times America is going through right now (and by that I mean in particular the economy), whichever Democratic candidate makes it to the White House, they will bankrupt the country. The talk of bailing out all those people who have screwed up their mortgage payments is what is going to be more ruiinous than perhaps anything else. With $11bn being poured into the war each week, where do they think they will find the money to bail out home owners who are facing foreclosure?
    There is a word for such insane economics. It’s SOCIALISM.
    There is a contract each and every person undertakes when they buy a property. A sizeable proportion of those who are facing foreclosure now are facing it not on their first or second properites… but on their third… so they were using realty as an investment… so they were taking a gamble. If a person takes a gamble, they have to, like everyone else, accept responsibility for that gamble. If they lose… the only person who should pay up is them. NOT THE GOVERNMENT. What message does that send out? It says the contract that that was agreed to is not worth the paper on which it is written. And that crazy notion is just the sort of idiocy which convinced Pres. Shrub to refer to the Constitution as “just a piece of paper.”
    The Constitution is one of THE GREATEST documents drawn up. EVER. And those Neo-Cons pissed all over it.
    I have always thought that flaweed as America is, it offered great opporunities for the rest of the world. But with such moronic leadership, I fear for what is going to become.
    What i think America needs is not a charimatic leader or a female… you need someone who is not going to magnetise voters on the promise that they will be bailed out. It’s similar to what those Neo-Con crazies have been doing with big business: CORPORATE SOCIALISM.

  26. The Pope says:

    I’m not American and so, have never and will most probably never vote in any American election. However, I fear that difficult as the times America is going through right now (and by that I mean in particular the economy), whichever Democratic candidate makes it to the White House, they will bankrupt the country. The talk of bailing out all those people who have screwed up their mortgage payments is what is going to be more ruiinous than perhaps anything else. With $11bn being poured into the war each week, where do they think they will find the money to bail out home owners who are facing foreclosure?
    There is a word for such insane economics. It’s SOCIALISM.
    There is a contract each and every person undertakes when they buy a property. A sizeable proportion of those who are facing foreclosure now are facing it not on their first or second properites… but on their third… so they were using realty as an investment… so they were taking a gamble. If a person takes a gamble, they have to, like everyone else, accept responsibility for that gamble. If they lose… the only person who should pay up is them. NOT THE GOVERNMENT. What message does that send out? It says the contract that that was agreed to is not worth the paper on which it is written. And that crazy notion is just the sort of idiocy which convinced Pres. Shrub to refer to the Constitution as “just a piece of paper.”
    The Constitution is one of THE GREATEST documents drawn up. EVER. And those Neo-Cons pissed all over it.
    I have always thought that flaweed as America is, it offered great opporunities for the rest of the world. But with such moronic leadership, I fear for what is going to become.
    What i think America needs is not a charimatic leader or a female… you need someone who is not going to magnetise voters on the promise that they will be bailed out. It’s similar to what those Neo-Con crazies have been doing with big business: CORPORATE SOCIALISM.

  27. Cadavra says:

    “whichever Democratic candidate makes it to the White House, they will bankrupt the country.”
    Um, excuse me, Clinton left office with a surplus. Bush and the GOP Congress squandered it on a titanic tax cut for the wealthy, then pissed away half a trillion on this imbecilic invasion, which McCain wants to perpetuate for another 100 years. I’d much rather my tax dollars go to keeping people from being homeless than murdering more human beings. That, my friend, is what we in the reality-based community call “compassion.”

  28. The Pope says:

    Cadavra,
    I don’t think I made myself clear enough; I made no reference to McCain therefore I did not voice any support for him, or indeed ANY Republican candidate (again, I am not an American so my support would not matter anyway). This particular thread has been about Clinton and Obama and I was pointing out that both of them have a severe deficiency when it comes to fiscal matters. You write that the invasion was imbelic… I am in absolute agreement with you. That is what I was saying when I referred to Bush’s complaint about the Constitution being “just a piece of paper.”

  29. jeffmcm says:

    The Pope, you’re using the same argument that was used during the Great Depression against intervention in the economy at that time: that people should be able to find their own jobs, survival of the fittest, etc. It’s a good principle but in practice, on the scale that the mortgage crisis is expanding out to encompass, that changes the rules of the game, in my humble opinion.

  30. Citizen R says:

    The report that George W. Bush referred to the Constitution as “just a piece of paper” came from Capitol Hill Blue, a website with a dubious track record in terms of factual accuracy and a heavy anti-Bush bias. No reliable news agency was able to confirm the story.

    A lot of people hate President Bush and are more than ready to believe the worst of him, but if you want to maintain intellectual honesty then you have to apply an even-handed approach to judging the validity of news reports regarding both politicians you like and support and those you don’t.

  31. The Pope says:

    To jeffmcm and Citizen R,
    I bow to your greater knowledge of American history and the veracity with which the media records the statements of the Oval Office. I say this not as an excuse, but as a proviso for everything else I have said: I am not an American and my opinion has no vested interest.

  32. Cadavra says:

    Pope, you may not be an American, but as a citizen of the world, you definitely have a vested interest…especially if our next President turns out to be a war junkie who has not only vowed to stay in Iraq another 100 years but added that “there will be other wars.”

  33. LexG says:

    GO MITT!
    ROMNEY FOR THE WIN!!!!!
    Both Dem options are SO boring, I can’t BELIEVE they packed a Kodak full of people with actual charisma?
    How exactly does anyone expect the Dems can actually win?
    I can’t see a Dem candidate winning anytime in the foreseeable future, long as the Republicans have the huge lead with religious types.

  34. Kim Voynar says:

    LexG, you must be hitting the crack pipe. Whether Clinton or Obama win the primary, this race is totally the Dems to lose, and it would take a pretty colossal fuckup to make that happen at this point, no matter who the Repub candidate is. People are pissed off after 8 years of the idiot currently occupying the White House, who’s brought us this asinine war and a shitty economy. I’ll be truly shocked if the Dems don’t dominate come election day.

  35. jeffmcm says:

    Lex, neither McCain nor Romney are fully trusted by ‘the religious types’. Romney was pro-choice and pro-gay rights before he decided to run for President (surprise) and they’ve never really liked McCain.

  36. David Poland says:

    I hate to disagree with that, Kim, but McCain is the kind of centrist Republican who, with the built-in trouble that comes with either Dem candidate, could win.
    The Dems cannot run against Bush this time… or we will lose for sure. It has to be about the view of the future, not the mistakes of the past.
    I don’t think Hillary can beat McCain. And now, for the first time, I really can see Obama winning… which is quite a pleasant feeling for me, as I have truly feared for many months that neither he or she could win.

  37. Stella's Boy says:

    What about how divisive McCain is among conservatives? Will that not matter in the general election? Will they all gladly rally around him (Rush, Evangelicals, etc.) just so they can help him defeat Clinton or Obama?

  38. Joe Leydon says:

    David: I agree that McCain will be able to run as a centrist, and that either Obama or Clinton will have “built-in trouble.” Which is why, as I have posted elsewhere, even though I will gladly vote for either Obama or Clinton, my first choice was John Edwards. Why? Because only four Democrats have been elected or re-elected President in this country during the last 44 years. And each one was a white guy from the South. Hell, even Al Gore got the majority of the popular vote when he ran.

  39. Stella's Boy says:

    Yeah Joe there has been a lot of chatter lately about how hard Limbaugh is campaigning against McCain. Plus, there was a recent story about a large anti-McCain camp in his home state of Arizona, plus this piece, which discusses some GOP senators who can’t stand the man. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/03/AR2008020303242_pf.html
    Does this hurt him in the general election?

  40. Joe Leydon says:

    Or… if you’re paranoid…. is it the hard right’s devious way of making the guy more appealing to Independents and Democrats?

  41. jeffmcm says:

    Clinton, Carter, Johnson…Kennedy? Or are you counting Gore as having been ‘elected’?

  42. Joe Leydon says:

    Actually, Gore was elected by the voters. Unfortunately, he wasn’t selected by the Supreme Court.

Leonard Klady's Friday Estimates
Friday Screens % Chg Cume
Title Gross Thtr % Chgn Cume
Venom 33 4250 NEW 33
A Star is Born 15.7 3686 NEW 15.7
Smallfoot 3.5 4131 -46% 31.3
Night School 3.5 3019 -63% 37.9
The House Wirh a Clock in its Walls 1.8 3463 -43% 49.5
A Simple Favor 1 2408 -50% 46.6
The Nun 0.75 2264 -52% 111.5
Hell Fest 0.6 2297 -70% 7.4
Crazy Rich Asians 0.6 1466 -51% 167.6
The Predator 0.25 1643 -77% 49.3
Also Debuting
The Hate U Give 0.17 36
Shine 85,600 609
Exes Baggage 75,900 62
NOTA 71,300 138
96 61,600 62
Andhadhun 55,000 54
Afsar 45,400 33
Project Gutenberg 36,000 17
Love Yatri 22,300 41
Hello, Mrs. Money 22,200 37
Studio 54 5,300 1
Loving Pablo 4,200 15
3-Day Estimates Weekend % Chg Cume
No Good Dead 24.4 (11,230) NEW 24.4
Dolphin Tale 2 16.6 (4,540) NEW 16.6
Guardians of the Galaxy 7.9 (2,550) -23% 305.8
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 4.8 (1,630) -26% 181.1
The Drop 4.4 (5,480) NEW 4.4
Let's Be Cops 4.3 (1,570) -22% 73
If I Stay 4.0 (1,320) -28% 44.9
The November Man 2.8 (1,030) -36% 22.5
The Giver 2.5 (1,120) -26% 41.2
The Hundred-Foot Journey 2.5 (1,270) -21% 49.4