It shows how out of it I was in trying to be in it, acknowledging that I was out of it to myself, and then thinking, “Okay, how do I stop being out of it? Well, I get some legitimate illogical narrative ideas” — some novel, you know?
So I decided on three writers that I might be able to option their material and get some producer, or myself as producer, and then get some writer to do a screenplay on it, and maybe make a movie.
And so the three projects were “Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep,” “Naked Lunch” and a collection of Bukowski. Which, in 1975, forget it — I mean, that was nuts. Hollywood would not touch any of that, but I was looking for something commercial, and I thought that all of these things were coming.
There would be no Blade Runner if there was no Ray Bradbury. I couldn’t find Philip K. Dick. His agent didn’t even know where he was. And so I gave up.
I was walking down the street and I ran into Bradbury — he directed a play that I was going to do as an actor, so we know each other, but he yelled “hi” — and I’d forgot who he was.
So at my girlfriend Barbara Hershey’s urging — I was with her at that moment — she said, “Talk to him! That guy really wants to talk to you,” and I said “No, fuck him,” and keep walking.
But then I did, and then I realized who it was, and I thought, “Wait, he’s in that realm, maybe he knows Philip K. Dick.” I said, “You know a guy named—” “Yeah, sure — you want his phone number?”
My friend paid my rent for a year while I wrote, because it turned out we couldn’t get a writer. My friends kept on me about, well, if you can’t get a writer, then you write.”
~ Hampton Fancher
“That was the most disappointing thing to me in how this thing was played. Is that I’m on the phone with you now, after all that’s been said, and the fundamental distinction between what James is dealing with in these other cases is not actually brought to the fore. The fundamental difference is that James Franco didn’t seek to use his position to have sex with anyone. There’s not a case of that. He wasn’t using his position or status to try to solicit a sexual favor from anyone. If he had — if that were what the accusation involved — the show would not have gone on. We would have folded up shop and we would have not completed the show. Because then it would have been the same as Harvey Weinstein, or Les Moonves, or any of these cases that are fundamental to this new paradigm. Did you not notice that? Why did you not notice that? Is that not something notable to say, journalistically? Because nobody could find the voice to say it. I’m not just being rhetorical. Why is it that you and the other critics, none of you could find the voice to say, “You know, it’s not this, it’s that”? Because — let me go on and speak further to this. If you go back to the L.A. Times piece, that’s what it lacked. That’s what they were not able to deliver. The one example in the five that involved an issue of a sexual act was between James and a woman he was dating, who he was not working with. There was no professional dynamic in any capacity.
~ David Simon
well, i’m here so i might as well say, so you obviously don’t go along with the ‘midnight run/pineapple’ comparisons, dave poland? somehow that’s a relief, it makes me feel better about not being able to see it for a couple months yet
Heat: TDK comes out December 8th. This has been mentioned several times. While the Iron Man date has been known for at least a month.
While Pineapple Express is a rather trippy freakin comedy/thriller because of Red alone. It’s a weird flick, but it may get better on repeat viewings. So here’s to Rogen showing off how short he is in this flick, and his exceptional stuntman work.
Re: My favorite pull-quote of the week is “No one’s going to listen to me. I’m just a guy with a big mouth and i just like to write every day.” Proud moments for the internets.
Oh, come on Dave!!! I sometimes feel like that way about your blog when for instance you are railing away against anything anti-Obama or going on a screed about Nikki Finke getting carried away with The Dark Knight’s first weekend gross. To have and write a daily blog which is usually updated several times a day require a big enough ego (with a big mouth) that the world wants to hear what you have to say. Examples include Mr. Wells, you, Andrew Sullivan, etc.
“Seth & Evan were watching True Romance and said, ‘We want to see a movie about Pitt and Rappaport doing a deal, not Slater.”
David, I saw Pineapple Express at the Just For Laughs festival in Montreal and during the Q&A afterword with the cast, Goldberg and Apatow, that is EXACTLY what they said (you have it almost word for word). Pitt from True Romance was a big influence behind the film, as was Tango & Cash.
Oh, come on Dave!!! I sometimes feel like that way about your blog
Which is why it’s his favorite quote of the week?
“No one’s going to listen to me. I’m just a guy with a big mouth and i just like to write every day.”
Wow, a reference to he who must not be named.
Anybody surprised that The Pinapple Express did $12 million on Wednesday? Wonder what that means for the weekend.
There are three answers to the above question:
1) The Bat for a FOURTH WEEK.
2) The pretty girls take the weekend.
or
3) Pineapple Express wins going away.
We shall find out tomorrow, but I am with the Bat at a crisp 27.8m to take the whole thing.
“Pitt from True Romance was a big influence behind the film, as was Tango & Cash.”
I LOVE Tango & Cash. Guilty pleasure. From the trailers I can’t see the influence, but I’m looking forward to it.
This isn’t movie-related, but if anyone’s in L.A., there’s a great twin exhibit going on at LACMA – “Los Angelenos/Chicano Painters of L.A.: Selections from the Cheech Marin Collection” and “Phantom Sightings: Art after the Chicano Movement.” Though one is paintings and the other is mixed media, sculpture, performance, photography and everything else you can imagine, it’s a kick-ass double bill. If – like me – you’ve never been exposed to the various Mexican-American, border state-centric art movements represented here, it’s a really intoxicating thing to see.
Lessee here. Two guys witness a gang hit and must run for their lives. Sure sounds like SOME LIKE IT HOT to me, but with a vowel change: drag jokes become drug jokes.
And once again, Blly Wilder pinwheels in his grave.
I feel like I am in the minority here, but I was greatly disappointed by the Pineapple Express. I feel that it is getting a summer pass from people who like the actors and feel that it is a very sub par. I saw it last night in a 300 seat theater with about 18 people in it. With the exception of the three teenage girls in the front row, who might be on something, nobody seemed to be emjoying themselves. No big laughs, a chuckle here and there, but everyone left seeming like…well…whatever…. I thought that the prologue was unfunny, long, and dull…not a good way to start….And the ending was a violent mess shot by someone who doesn’t know how to shoot action scenes. To me it feels rushed into production following the success of Superbad. I believe that there is a good movie here, but it feels bloated…
I feel like Apatow is giving us deminishing returns and that his “comedy empire” has more than a few holes in it. I think that he is just throwing too much product out there without looking at the quality. Now I have not seen FSM nor Zohan, but I have had less enthuastic response on every one of his films since 40 YOV(A), Knocked Up(B+), Superbad (B), Walk Hard (C), Pinapple Express(D+)
I know that there will be a rush to see it this weekend, just don’t get your expectations too HIGH……
sorry couldn’t resist….
Bennett
Pineapple has all kinds of precursors, but none of them really hold up.
Unlike Midnight Run, there is never any real conflict between the two guys, only ambivalence, there is no defined goal, other than survival, and there really is no lesson learned, other than that slackers of the world unite.
Unlike Some Like It Hot, there is not dual witnessing, the meanace of the bad guys is much more direct and real, and there are no real diversionary tactics or a man/woman love story.
There really is no clear line, except perhaps my imagined one, which would be their imaginations spreading out. It’s much to DGG for that. Closer to Planes, Trains & Automobiles than any other film I’ve seen referenced.
Cadavra, two guys witnessing a gang killing isn’t quite specific enough to be the property of Wilder and Diamond. Regardless, it’s ONE guy witnesses a gang killing, and where’s the Marilyn Monroe/all-girl band. That’s a pretty integral part of Some Like It Hot.
Lazy criticism.
I thought the film was hilarious. Every time it would threaten to run out of steam, something insanely funny would pull it back. I haven’t laughed that much, or that hard, in a while.
And I was sober.
Sorry you didn’t like the film Bennett, but the action sequences are meant to look messy and awkward to highlight the fact that the lead characters have no clue what they’re doing.
Slightly off topic but….anyone read Dave Ansen’s piece on this year’s comedies?
He attacks Step Brothers…has Poland’s opinion of Pineaple Express…and then goes monkey bananas over the greatness of Tropic Thunder, declaring it the comedy of the year (just ahead of Harold and Kumar 2!?) and Ben Stiller the King of Comedy.Wtf???
Ansen’s opinions have gotten sparer and wackier ever since he took his buyout from Newsweek and ran with it, devolving into “I don’t give a shit” mode regarding his movie criticisms.
Anyway…it makes me want to really see Tropic Thunder now.
> Closer to Planes, Trains & Automobiles than any other film I’ve seen referenced.
David, that kind of comparison requires further explanation.
I haven’t read or conversed with Wells in 18 months. When it turned out he was on O’Reilly, I watched as I do most days – Hardball, Countdown, and O’Reilly are on the DVR daily during election season – I watched him. And he hasn’t changed much.
No, it’s not like what I do.
If I write it, I will support it. If I call for someone to be fired, I mean it. If I praise someone, I mean it. I am not of the impression that no one listens to me, because I know what happens when I write something that makes someone in the industry feel that I am attacking them. If I am convinced that I was wrong, I run a correction, often explaining exactly what the circle of thought was.
I have written that Rob Cohen is an uberhack. When I was on Reelz last week, I said that Rob Cohen is an uberhack. I think they cut a bit of that because of time. The segment went 7 minutes and we probably went 10 minutes talking. Previously, I said in the same segment that it was time for Hillary Clinton to wake up and smell that the primary was over.
It may be blogging… but it is still my work, my word, and my life on here. Yes, the form is looser than many more traditional outlets have been. (That’s sliding.)
But, for instance, when the next Oscar chart includes The Dark Knight as an option (however remote) – and the exclusion of the film from my first chart was, shockingly, the only thing on my chart this year that got gasps out of the awards insiders – I will have to answer to readers for that… same as any other journalist changing course on a story.
I can still make the argument about why the film won’t get nominated, but I can’t really rationalize keeping it off a list that includes two films without distribution. And if someone asked me to go on air to argue the point, I would be very clear before I went on the air where I now was on the issue. I wouldn’t get on air and just crumble.
The one time I appeared on O’Reilly, it was as the person who was least a fan of 8 Mile, which I felt had oddly racist undertones, especially coming from such a liberal, thoughtful director. So they get me on there and it turns out that Bill’s issue is that Hollywood is being taken over by foreigners (Vivendi, at the time) and that 8 Mile was a product of that. My response was to defend the studio, the filmmaker, and the movie itself from this odd, sideways attack. I didn’t change my attitude about the film, but I just didn’t think that the film was guilty of O’Reilly’s choice of crime.
Anyway…
Have some balls. Keep TDK off the chart because you KNOW it won’t be nominated. There’s plenty of rationalizing for films without distribution…things change, the festival season tends to clear the way for some films. If it doesn’t happen for them it doesn’t but that’s not a reason to stick a film on a list because readers are clamoring for it to feel that their own inklings on the matter are getting some sway.
Keep TDK off the chart??
I am not a rabid TDK fan. I enjoyed Ledger’s brilliant performance, Pfister’s gorgeous work (Chicago..er, Gotham, has never looked better), but overall I was left lukewarm. I even gave it another shot in IMAX – same result.
My impressions aside, I think you are way off the mark. This film has Best Picture nomination written all over it. This is an LOTR-Gladiator-Master & Commander big budget, populist and critical hit. To think it won’t be nominated for multiple awards…well..I think you’re riding the Pineapple Express.
Well, Nick… it’s more the story of two men, one of whom has a mild distaste for the other (“he’s my fucking dealer”) and the other who is endlessly sweet, no matter how off-center. They are forced together by circumstance with the single goal of getting to a safe place in their comfort zone.
They are stuck sleeping in an awkward situation. By a series of adventures and misadventures, they start to understand one another and to become friends. The uptight guy gets angry at the nice guy for f-ing up and actually hurts his feelings, but recovers
Kris, you have always seen Oscar guessing – prognosticating… hee hee – as some sort of competition. I don’t.
I really don’t care whether readers are clamoring for anything in this regard. I care that every major marketer in the Oscar game – including WB folks – is taking it very seriously and that this is a soft year on paper.
I don’t KNOW very much most years. And while it is irritating, I have come to a peace with people picking one comment out of paragraphs of writing and trying to make it my badge of honor or failure.
This is the core thing that you and others often forget, seems to me… it’s not even a horse race. The lead up to the race is similar. There are all kinds of elements that the marketers and filmmakers can establish, work on, massage. Then there is the movie itself. There there is The Year, which includes the mood out there and the competition.
None of us have the information to measure any of that at this point. And it’s a miracle that every year, guessers get 2 or 3 of the 5 BP nominees from this far away.
But even in post-game analysis, there are disagreements about what set the road, whether to Crash or The Departed or even No Country For Old Men.
Was Brokeback oversold or just weak? Could another of the nominees emerged with a harder push? Or was Crash’s acting constituency the key?
Did anyone KNOW that Departed would win… even that night? People guessed. But was anyone really at 85% certainty?
So here we are… already fighting about The Dark Knight… because I posted a column that is posted weekly BECAUSE SHIT CHANGES.
Oy.
Bill didn’t inhale. George can’t remember if he did cocaine. Larry has a wide stance. And now John had the affair but didn’t love her and is pretty sure he isn’t the baby’s father.
David: Looking back, do you think my original theory about Crash — i.e., the movie touched an especially sensitive nerve with Academy voters (most of whom live in L.A.) — holds water? Because I can remember back when I offered that up before the Oscarcast, man, did I get some mean smackdowns on this blog. Not that I’m sensitive about name-calling or anyhting like that. Not at all. It’s only a coincidence that I started drinking heavily around that time… Well, OK, even more heavily…
Where did I say anything about it being a competition? I’m asking you to listen to the sane part of your brain that knows the Academy is full of people like the Reel Geezers that won’t possibly nominate it for Best Picture.
Truthfully, it’s getting out of hand. The big, huge, crazy box office success has possibly done one thing for this film’s Oscar chances: secure Ledger a valid argument for the win. The sound mixing, sound editing, film editing, cinematography nods that the film was already going to get? They’re still in line, give or take — $500 million or not.
I’ll listen to Best Director or screenplay arguments all day long. But the Best Picture talk holds no water, now or ever.
MORE than happy to be wrong, but I doubt I am.
Also, this notion that you are married to the “shit changes” thing. If that were the case you wouldn’t have been so adamant about Johnny Depp winning Best Actor from FEBRUARY, or that “Dreamgirls” was on a victory lap in October.
I know you hate for people to nit-pick your words, but that’s all we have to go on. Sometimes it’s whatever works for now with you. Currently, it’s the “shit changes, I post my column weekly to reflect the changes” stuff. But what are we to say when you make your next bold proclamation that is built on little aside from your desire to anoint?
I ask it all honestly, because the hypocrisy is THICK.
David: An interesting assessment. I’d argue that “P,T&A” does a far superior job of the eventual-friendship angle than “PE.” Not once did I buy the Rogen-Franco friendship as anything other than a forced requirement to keep the movie going. And that scene with riffing about being pals seemed like it would. not. end.
Give me no dialogue, John Candy freezing and alone at a train stop, Steve Martin reconsidering and a corny cover of “Every Time You Go Away” any day.
“Not that I’m sensitive about name-calling or anyhting like that. Not at all. It’s only a coincidence that I started drinking heavily around that time…”
When your weary, feeling small,
When tears are in your eyes, I will dry them all;
I’m on your side. When times get rough
And friends just can’t be found,
Like a bridge over troubled water
I will lay me down.
Like a bridge over troubled water
I will lay me down.
Nicol: Are you trying to seduce me?
Joe:
Ohhhh…just having fun on a Friday afternoon.
The “shit changes” has always been there, Kris… just as the awareness that I don’t control marketing for movies that should do better box office, that people are not fired from big studio jobs for cause, etc.
It’s funny that I never see anyone in here arguing the calls that were right. As Joe notes, no one ever seems to come into the blog to go, “You were so right and we were so wrong.”
Little asides like michael clayton, capote, munich, letters from iwo jima, sideways, million dollar baby, etc? Little asides like Djimon Hounsou, Sam Morton, Sophie Okonodo, Tom Church, Reese Witherspoon, Bill Hurt, Rachel Weisz, Eddie Murphy, Jackie Earle Haley, etc?
I know your argument to come… “you weren’t the only one to call those!”… but I got shit for every one of them when I made the calls. And every one of them was just as subject to the vagueries of the season as anyone else.
But that’s expected.
And the nit-picking isn’t irritating because my words come back at me, but because they are recrafted into more narrow ideas than I normally offer.
I can live with hitting for average, hitting a few out, and striking out with men on base all too many times. I don’t see anyone out there with a better record at the bat or who is better at fielding… which is not to say there are no equals.
But it’s not a zero sum situation, Kris. Never has been. Sometimes you hit for average, sometimes you swing for the fences, but it’s never the seventh game of the world series in this business. When I retire, you can have one of your employees look at my track record and tell me how I fit into the history of movie carnies. But if I made the call on 5 pictures today and turned out to be right, it would be 90% luck and 10% knowledge. It wouldn’t make me a genius.
And being wrong about Dreamgirls (along with every other guesser on the planet… we have no idea what would happen in Phase II because the movie didn’t get there. If Mariano Rivera hadn’t given up a run in the bottom of the ninth in game 3 and again in the eight in game 4 of the 2004 acls, would the Yankees have won the World Series? No one knows, but many would say, “yes.” But I’m not Bill Buckner. The one call I have made in my career was not Phantom (for 3 weeks) or Dreamgirls or even saying, “With God as my witness, Gladiator will not win Best Picture” on E! in the Oscar pre-show that year.
Of course, this is why I care less and less what any one person has to say about anything, especially during awards season. We all measure the way we measure. And the reason I am given creedence is that I have a very good track record. But I am also wrong at least a quarter of the time in my best years. By the time we get to the end, things make themselves apparent. I just pick the apples up off the ground. But still, the absolutes are never absolute.
Is that hypocrisy? If so, you should defintely vote McRove. He’s changed his positions as severely as Bush did to be VP, voted with Bush over 90% of the time, and claims the other guy is more of the same. Dance ballerina dance.
And sorry for assuming you were championing TDK for BP, Kris. Funny that you’re not. But as much as I feel that it’s not likely, it is such a thin field that we could have a very weird list by the end. I can’t really keep arguing that the door is 100% shut on TDK, because it isn’t until it is. And we won’t really know until late October how strong this year’s field really is because Toronto is not going to answer all this year.
Nicol: Not that there’s anything wrong with that, you understand.
I’m trying to figure out how the “real geezers” that make up such a large portion of the academy, according to Kris, wouldn’t nominate TDK, but had no problem nominating (and by the third film, awarding) a three hour-long fantasy epic.
I doubt it’s because a lot of them were Tolkien readers. Batman, especially done in a “real” fashion, seems a lot more accessible than hobbits and elves. And Nolan has even more respect at this point than Jackson did before his trilogy came out.
Good point, Laz. I wonder if, with each passing year, the Geezer Factor becomes less of an issue? Or if the New Geezers simply are more hip than the Old Geezers? Put it another way: Can you imagine the modern-day equivalent of something like Doctor Dolittle getting a Best Picture nod today?
The “geezer” issue is real. But the “geezers” are evolving into 60s geezers, not 50s geezers. And there is a difference,
Still, The Dark Knight problem is, a) comic book, b) too big a hit, c) not a period picture, d) very violent.
The question mark is whether the film will play as a phenom in December. Yes…. huge box office. But is it a game changer. Rings, with the triple dip, was. Jaws and Indy and Star Wars also were. Is Dark Knight the same as X-Men 2 or Iron Man or will it be seen as “important” in December? I think not… 90% not. But you never really know until the season starts playing out. It a half dozen films of the dozen legit contenders crash on the rocks as movies (not money so much), it changes the game a lot.
Dr Doolittle is not a real argument. It was a vestige of the studio system 40 years ago. Those were geezers who were told what to vote for in those days.
Another problem for TDk is that the younger vote that gets out for Juno or LMS is heavily female… which is not a TDK stronghold.
DP, how is “comic” any tougher a sell than “nerd manifesto”, whatever the pedigree. And the nomination for Pfister’s cinematography on Begins at least showed some acknowledgment.
Second, while the numbers weren’t as big as TDK, Fellowship raked in a LOT of money, and then you had the merchandising, the happy meals, etc. If that didn’t turn the voters off, why would this? And…Titanic?
Is Middle-Earth considered “period”?
And you used the violence argument with The Departed, and turned out to be wrong on that.
We’re not even talking a BP win here. Just a nom. I don’t think any of the issues you’re mentioning are dealbreakers.
mr. poland, thanks for addressing the ‘midnight run’ issue, i appreciate it.
i don’t think the degree of ‘accessibility’ has anything to do with ‘dark knight’s chances at an oscar compared to ‘lotr’ – or nolan being more respected than pj – it’s all about people being moved, what touches your heart, caring about the characters, that punch in the gut you either get from a movie or you don’t. ‘dark knight’ is a great movie but i don’t know anyone who was deeply moved or felt a real emotional connection with the characters in it, not the way people seemed to with ‘lotr’, which tapped some weird emotional reservoir. we still have great crowds of tourists from all over the world who come here just to gawk at empty fields and bits of forest and mountains where ‘lotr’ was filmed even after all this time. i don’t think ‘dark knight’ can say the same. also, i think just the sheer achievement of all three ‘lotr’ movies is what helped ‘king’ win best pic, ‘dark knight’ doesn’t have the same momentum.
This won’t be one of my more “scientific” or socio-conscientious posts but Dark Knight will be nominated for best pic. Academy members don’t sit in a vacuum and can be manipulated by mktg. If nothing else, they will be too scared or too shamed not to vote Dark Knight in. Winning it may be another matter but the commentary will start in early December about how potentially out of touch the body is. Last thing they want is to ass their way out of relevancy as much as their cohorts who vote for the Grammy’s, who by continuously picking their buddies instead of groundbreakers or monument work, left them to pressure the State Dept to let some drug hag into the country just so their annual gala attracts more eyeballs than Law & Order: Student Council Narc.
The theme and tone of Dark Knight are serious enough for the film to be taken seriously. And though I haven’t a single stat to back this opin, I don’t think the dark tone is too dark for women, neither to give it a high recommend nor award votes.
TDK Best Picture nomination….I will think that it will be considered Oscar’s fallback plan. I love the movie…saw it twice….once on IMAX…Actually, saw it first on IMAX and found the action scenes alittle hard to follow on the large screen format….I think that TDK Best Picture nomination will depend on what else is coming out the last few months. Not a sure thing, but if there is a strong three or four prestige films, I can see it sneak in. The DVD will be out. I also wouldn’t put it against the Academy sick of piddling ratings, put it in there just for a slight boost in ratings. It wouldn’t be like they nominated Transformers just to get a few more points.
P.S. I was talking of the way the action was shot in PE more than the content of the finale, I get that the characters were confused, but whew…one slow motion Seth Rogan jumping shot does not an action scene make.
I don’t know where this notion that I have suggested that Dark Knight won’t get 4 or 5 nominations.
We continue to discuss this nomination like it’s next wek, Laz. It’s not. Perspective will develop, especially on Pfister’s work. It’s excellent, but is it the best of the year? We don’t know yet… and the best doesn’t always get nominated, much less win… and it’s too soon to know. Same with the script.
But yes, Rings is a costume drama. And it had the pedigree of a classic piece of literature, however geeky.
As for Departed… yes. At the same time I was saying that it was actually an awards movie while others were saying, “no,” I also thought BP was out of range. But in the end, a season without a frontrunner went with the highest grossing, industry-muscular film. Hurray. Pleased to see it happen.
I guess that if I believed that Nolan had succeesed in the ambition to make it a costumed drama, I would think more of its chances.
TEAR IT DOWN! TEAR IT ALL DOWN!
“‘The “geezer’ issue is real. But the “geezers” are evolving into 60s geezers, not 50s geezers. And there is a difference.”
Moving on.
“Still, The Dark Knight problem is, a) comic book,”
Let me respond to you in the way that most people would respond to such a statement. After this decade has been all about comic book films from 2000 on. WHO GIVES A FUCK? A comic book is a bad thing? Really? What are you? 87? You somebody’s mom in freakin Flordia that threw out comics? This statement alone remains fucking ponderous, and will forever be that way.
“b) too big a hit,”
TITANIC AND RINGS? Really? That’s your b argument? I cannot wait to read your c argument.
“c) not a period picture,”
MILLION DOLLAR FREAKIN BABY! Are we considering 1980 a period now? If so, that would make No Country a period picture. If not, then this is you stretching again to HATE ON SOMETHING.
You can go on about seldom being wrong, but you are wrong about SENTIMENT all the time. You are always on the outside looking in on most phenomenom. While the movies you feel will be that supers BIG DEAL like HAIRSPRAY. Never play that way to the masses. You are easily one of the worst judges of an audience anywhere on the net.
“d) very violent.”
DEPARTED. All of these four reasons are easily cast aside, if you look at recent Oscar history. How on earth could you dare pass off the COMIC BOOK angle. When LOTR won 4 years ago. It makes no sense.
“The question mark is whether the film will play as a phenom in December. Yes…. huge box office. But is it a game changer. Rings, with the triple dip, was. Jaws and Indy and Star Wars also were. Is Dark Knight the same as X-Men 2 or Iron Man or will it be seen as ;important’ in December? I think not… 90% not. But you never really know until the season starts playing out. It a half dozen films of the dozen legit contenders crash on the rocks as movies (not money so much), it changes the game a lot.”
What do you mean as a PHENOMENON? This movie does not suddenly start meaning less once the calendar changes. Again, it’s EMPIRE, and you damn well know people are fanatical about EMPIRE. You just need to realize that there are more of me in this than you and Kris. Seriouisly, apathy towards the Dark Knight is like apathy towards anything great. It’s just hokey. Hokey hokey hokey.
So I can only assume that you mean to the potential ACADEMY voters who love it now, and will forget it in December. If this is indeed the case. Those people are lying through their teeth.
Look: it’s a soft year. TDK is coming out at the right time to go for Oscar gold. It’s going to be a thin year. How on earth can you cast aside TDK during a thin year? This one point alone will be what leads to TDK being nominated. If the Academy indeed go the extra mile to reward this film with something many fans of this film will expect come Janurary.
Again, Begins did not go away. Begins’ audience just grew and grew until what you saw almost a month ago. TDK being a superiour movie to Begins. May easily lead to TDK being a film long talked about, if the Academy decides to give it the shiv.
“Dr Doolittle is not a real argument. It was a vestige of the studio system 40 years ago. Those were geezers who were told what to vote for in those days.”
Those days must have been so much fun!
“Another problem for TDk is that the younger vote that gets out for Juno or LMS is heavily female… which is not a TDK stronghold.”
It depends on the women. If they are girlie girls… probably not. If they are the women necessary to make TDK a FOUR QUAD HIT. I would think it’s possible some women in the Academy would vote for TDK.
Once again you are reading like someone hating on someone, but I will admit it looks like you are simply out of touch as usual.
Leah: uh no. LOTR were exploitive nature porn. While TDK is a movie about the SOUL of a city. I guess if you live in a country where everything is like fucking HOBBITON. You really have no clue how there are some places out there that tither on an edge, and it’s up to people BELIEVING in the power of GOOD to get them through it all. There’s a reason Batman says what he says to the Joker. There’s a reason why he goes on the lamb because if Jim Gordon’s son still believes in him. The people will believe, and the people need him.
If that does not connect with anyone. Well, drive around, and notice some place could use a real-life BATMAN.
Oh yeah… you know what’s a SHEER ACHIEVEMENT? FINISHING FUCKING CLEOPATRA! THAT’S AN ACHIEVEMENT. Hell, Back to the Future did it, and Bob was on the set most of time. Here’s to the worst Best Director ever! Whom had 198187 people helping him to direct the movie. GONE AND FORGOTTEN thanks to a MONKEY!
IO… can you actually put together an idea that actually speaks to the group we’re talking about with some consistency?
I can’t respond to that insane rant, since it is so all over the place.
You want to think I am out of touch? Why would I care anymore? You’re not interested in anything close to reality, you are only interested in attacking someone you have falsely accused of being a hater for having an opinion that you don’t like (and worse, cottons to reality).
And you spend part of your time screaming at me while agreeing with me.
Get a paper bag and breathe in it for a few months… then we can argue the point.
Is there any chance of at least a campaign for Cam Gigandet for Best Supporting Actor in “Never Back Down”?
Good thing I’m on Caps Watch, because there aren’t enough O’s in the alphabet to convey how much that performance and that movie owned.
leahnz made a good point, that LOTR forged a deeper emotional connection, but what about The Departed? Perhaps Leo was able to garner some sympathy, but the main accomplishment of the film was to have a screenplay with lively, memorable dialogue that still managed to be extremely tense, with very few moments of release. People saw the film as Marty lite, and his award as some kind of make-up Oscar, but I’d still argue he won on his own terms. This isn’t an less an East Coast film than the others, and it’s just as uncomfortable to watch at times as Raging Bull, Taxi Driver, etc. I’d argue GoodFellas was a much more accessible film.
Also, No Country wasn’t an emotional film, either, unless you think Kelly MacDonald somehow boosted the film over the top for the Academy voters.
And for better or worse, doesn’t the real life story of Heath Ledger give the film an extra emotional gravitas?
mr. poland, i’m pretty sure that io rant was entirely directed at me, and to impugn pj
damn, i hit post before i finished, just wanted to add, there were only two directors on ‘lotr’, pj and fran; lots of second unit stuff, which is pretty common in big flicks, io, which i’m sure you already know
Also, IO, “going on the lamb” might be something you and your friends do for kicks on the weekend. If you’re talking about a fugitive from justice, it’s “lam”.
You’re funny, David. You continue to take credit for Letters and Clayton as if others weren’t there way before you on that. Ditto almost all those performances (to the point of being embarrassing that you’d even try). And we’re supposed to just take that “I’m not competitive” line to heart.
Again, the hypocrisy is thick.
I’d say you’re safe on “Munich” and “Capote” though. Well done. Never would take it from you.
“I don’t see anyone out there with a better record at the bat or who is better at fielding…”
Because you generally don’t read the competition (that you don’t consider competition), David. Otherwise you’d give credit to exclusives where it is due, rather than running trailers and posters days later as if they are new (or news). You can’t find what you’re not looking for.
“the reason I am given creedence [sic] is that I have a very good track record”
David…I think you’re overplaying your hand here. Again, do some checking…
And I still think it’s incredibly amusing that you think a film that couldn’t be sold as one of the five best in phase one could have been sold as the best of the year in phase two. I understand the fact that they are different playing fields but your logic is stretched paper thin in this instance.
All that said, and back to the issue at hand, I feel as if TDK Best Pic talk is banking on logic that should have worked for “Spider-Man,” but didn’t. $400 million was as big a deal in 2002, I think, as inching toward $500 million in a post-Shrek 2, Episode III, Pirates 2 industry is.
Laz: yeah yeah. Only on the net are people like you so hung up about semantics.
David Poland: what the fuck ever. You rant and rave like a mad man against the chance of a film. Based on nothing more than your own FRINGE EXISTANCE. You are THE FRINGE. You are so FRINGE. You have no idea how FRINGE YOU ARE.
So please stop caring, exlude TDK from your list with fellow fringers, and I will just sit back and laugh at the silliness of it all. Your inability to get that you are out of touch, is really starting to get hysterical.
Leah is also right. POST ONE is towards you. POST TWO is towards her. Stop fringin, dawg.
uh, an addendum to say, i somehow didn’t notice the rant above the rant that was directed at me, which was indeed largely directed at you, david poland. i’m going senile
Spider-Man wasn’t reviewed as well as this was, Kris. Are you kidding? Who the hell was talking Oscar for that film? Or the second one, for that matter, as well as it was received?
No one would ever take the mostly daylight-shot, Disneyland NYC, red and blue-costumed Spidey as seriously as this late night, mudpuddle-reflection Chicago, half-in-the-shadows figure of Batman. Not by a longshot.
Nah. My rants even give me a headache. WOO!
Let me also throw this in there. WHAT THE FRICK IS UP WITH HILLARY? She comes back with a much softer look, a very nice hair cut, and a more “older lady who has not given up” outfit. Why on earth it took her this long to get her appearance together is beyond me.
I know it’s rather crude and booring to bring up a woman’s appearance in such way, but it needs to be stated. Especially when she’s on the “LESSER OF TWO EVILS” tour 2008.
Just got back from Pineapple Express. Very much enjoyed it, even if, like Step Brothers, there’s a point halfway through where it kinds of abandons really taking itself and its characters ‘seriously’ and just goes for the big fight scenes and silliest gags, which is fine and dandy but limiting.
Also, I can’t agree with the person who said the action scenes were ‘intentionally sloppy’. You can tell the difference between being intentionally messy and just not really knowing how to shoot an action scene because you’ve never done one in a movie before.
IO, you keep comparing Dark Knight to Empire Strikes Back That movie didn’t get a nomination either.
Dark Knight isn’t fit to hold Empire’s bra-strap, jock strap or bootstrap.
Dark Knight is one of the best movies of the year…one of the best comic book movies ever, it will get some noms but the acting noms?
I thought Departed & no country were too dark to get major noms and they got noms…so TDK might get noms, we’ll know when we know, won’t we.
the best acting in TDK will likely go un-nominated unfortunately…overshadowed by Heath’s death.
“David…I think you’re overplaying your hand here. Again, do some checking…”
I’m not sure what that means, Kris, but it sure sounds like you know more than me about me… again.
The only time I’ve been hit by man or boy in 24 years was some punk who ran up behind me on 3rd St, took a shot over my right shoulder, and took off running. Don’t be that guy. You’re better than that.
Sorry that I don’t care. Sorry that I don’t hang on everyone else’s every word. Sorry that you think my role on this turf was created by magic beans.
I wrote a rather lengthy explanation of my behavior before realizing that the point I was making was that I no longer feel compelled to respond to people whining about what they think my behavior is.
I have earned the right to do the job however I choose to do the job. If you don
I think TDK has a great shot at a nomination – it gets all of the sentiment needed from Ledger’s death, just like The Departed got mileage from being Marty’s due despite its reputation as a “cold” movie.
No doubt, the Academy has thrown themselves at darker films, in the past few years – no way I see There Will Be Blood or Capote getting all of the major nods they did, just about ten years ago.
I think it will be interesting to see how the politics of the movie affect its chances – apparently, The Dark Knight is being widely praised by the Fox News-types as being a neo-con manifestor – was pretty amazing to see Glenn Beck on CNN recently contorting the storyline to explain how Batman stands in for George W. Bush. Not saying it’s a liberal manifesto, either – if nothing else, I find both recent Batman films to have a strong libertarian slant to them.
But you have to wonder if the Academy will hold that against the film, still smarting from guilt over Gump from way back, or if they will let themselves get browbeat into nominating it out of fear of being labeled “out of touch with the people” from Beck, O’Reilly, and all of their minions.
Tech nods are assured – seriously, what other genuine eye candy have we really seen, this summer, anyway? And there don’t seem to be much in the way of true costume epics coming in the winter.
Just out of curiosity, does any one think that Zimmer/Howard have a shot for a nod for their score? I think the music they have done for these films has been fantastic, although not as memorable as Danny Elfman’s scores for the first two films – was he nominated?
Elfman’s great score won a Grammy and a BMI but I don’t think he was nom for oscar in 90, a shame.
Elfman didn’t get a nomination until ’98. Good Will Hunting. He was overlooked for much of his best work. A real shame.
Dark Knight isn’t fit to hold Empire’s bra-strap, jock strap or bootstrap.
Ouch. I just rolled my eyes so hard that I pulled a nerve.
Don’t know how much of this was mentioned in the past but I don’t think LOTR 3 gets best pic nom/win had it not been part of a trilogy. Besides the thing not being quite complete on its own I think there’s kind of a ketchup bottle opening thing working for it. Like it’s not that the last person who actually succeeds in opening a stuck bottle of ketchup is the strongest but those who’ve gone ahead had loosened it up a bit.
So too will be the case with Dark Knight. Spidey II and Batman Begins were highly praised by critics. Either in my book were worthy of nods. Even with turds like Spidey 3 and maybe more so Superman Returns that had a respected director, it helps Dark Knight’s case because they show a good comic book movie isn’t so easy to pull off.
Was anyone saying Braveheart was too violent to win at the Oscars? Seriously asking, I didn’t follow such talk. What about Silence of the Lambs?
While on the subjects of oscar voting, is anyone else pissed about the practice of turning Best Original or Adapted Screenplay into a constellation prize for films? It’s like some “I Did It All Myself” trophy they dole out losers who put up a good effort in Boy Scouts. Crap, if you wanna dedicate time for a charity case, how ’bout establishing a scholarship fund or start a movement to fill potholes across the land.
There is, in my opinion, a kind of violence that flies and a kind of violence that doesn’t fly. Yes, people were saying that about Braveheart… but there is something about kilt, something about a toga, something about hairy feet, that does separate. And Silence of the Lambs was a true adult thriller, like The Departed. I am still amazed that Departed survived Nicholson’s dildo and the multi-shoot at the end… but I was thrilled for them to get the win.
Agree completely on rings. it was the daring choice to do the trilogy that made the films – which folks screamed could not get nominated, then the second couldn’t because middle movies don’t, then for a second, the third wasn’t going to win – happen for Oscar.
If Dark Knight feels, at the end of the year, like it was an important event, it has a real shot at getting in. And if not, not.
Yawniest thread ever.
“The only time I’ve been hit by man or boy in 24 years was some punk who ran up behind me on 3rd St, took a shot over my right shoulder, and took off running. Don’t be that guy. You’re better than that.”
Not sure what the heck that means.
But thanks for the lesson, cuz.
Lota: what the fuck ever. That’s my response to people like you, who like to state that nonsense, when the rest of the freakin world disagrees with you. Seriously, go visit places, and read the reaction to TDK. Farci was right to dub it “The Dark Knight Strikes Back”.
Poland: I TOLD YA! I TOLD YA THEN, I WILL TELL YOU IN JANUARY, AND I WILL TELL YOU THAT NIGHT! BIG DAWG! WOOT! WOOT!
enjoy your dictatorship where no one is allowed to have an opinion except your opinion IO.
I disagree, period. Empire was unique and singular and I don’t think TDK is in the same league. No amount of awards or lack of awards will change that. I don;t evaluate or cherish movies based on what other people think, but how they hit me personally in the brain and heart.
If TDK wins alot of awards, good; if it gets alot of 10 votes on IMDB, good. It doesn’t make it a better movie than ESB, to Me.
People went on an on how Forrest Gump was the greatest movie ever when it came out, and I hated it and was in the minority. I still hate it.
For all the fanboys looking forward to summer ’09: The mystery car in the Transformers sequel is an upgraded Corvette.
We presume a Camaro would not be enough for big-screen robots.
Blah, blah, blah…
Here’s what’s going to happen. Ready?
TDK will NOT receive a BP nomination.
But…
Christopher Nolan WILL receive a BD nomination.
End of story.
Rest in Peace Bernie Mac.
this stinks.
I agree, mutiny…but I think that’s ironic since the only thing I didn’t really like about TDK was the action sequences which were poooorly directed. I’ve seen the film twice now and the second time it was glaring how bad they were. That scene where they’re transporting Dent to jail is like, the most unexciting action sequence I’ve seen in some time.
In other news, I was just sent this:
http://dontcallmejoey.blogspot.com/
Speaking of “lambs”, best picture winner Silence of the Lambs and Gladiator and Return of the King would all seem to be a good argument that the Academy LOVES violent pictures, as long as the picture is cut well.