Let The Idiotic Oscar Second Guessing Begin!
I said it before the nominations, but allow me to reiterate…
1) I have met a grand total of zero Oscar voters over 55 who LIKED The Dark Knight, much less would Top Five it.
We weight guessers of Oscar convinced ourselves that cynical desperation for a false idea of a ratings benefit would cause a nomination. We were, happily, wrong… not because I am rooting against The Bat, but because I feel this was a more honest outcome.
2) The notion that The Dark Knight or Wall-E being BPed would improve the ratings more than a quarter point was an idiotic notion to begin with. With all due respect, mega-hit that it is, TDK is not the cultural phenom that Titanic or 3 years of Rings was.
The Academy Awards ratings will continue to dip no matter what films are nominated. The shows that pander to audience loves are and have been doing less that a fifth the viewership that the Oscars have. But Oscar ratings will keep slipping because the season is too long and the marketing efforts often eat the heat. Even the brilliant Dark Knight DVD push… it ate all of the remaining heat around the film and what else is left? There are only so many calls to action that people will respond to.
Push Oscar into late January. Noms close the same date, but are turned around in less than a week. And the ballots go out 4 days later. The show is the last Sunday in January… or the first in Feb if neccessary.
It’s called momentum. It’s owning the story all month for one month instead of trying – ironically like Oscar ambitlious “early” releases – to sustain importance for months. Is too much to ask in 2009.
They’ll never move it to the end of Jan/first week of Feb. That would put it in direct competition with the Super Bowl and/or playoffs.
While I agree with what you wrote, DP, it’s still irksome that arguably ALL the Best Pic noms were released in “Oscar season” yet again. Had “Wall-E” waited until later in the year, I firmly believe it would have got a nod.
In fact, I was having lunch with Scott Mendelson back in early November and distinctly remember telling him that I had completely forgot about the film and that people in general had as well. Unless they said in their review it was “ONE OF THE BEST OF THE YEAR!!” and had to remind themselves of that when it came time for top 10’s.
And for people who brought up (and endlessly repeated) the point the ratings in the first place.
Why should we care about the ratings? If the Academy is going to worry about losing the “prestige factor” than it has more to worry about that ratings. The simple truth is that there’s always going to be an audience for awards shows.
Everyone else’s opinion of the Academy will change from year to year depending on how pleased or displeased they are with that particular years outcomes. Everything else with either be ignored or be of little relevance.
And an even larger part of the population will be made up people who didn’t really care in the first place or loudmouthed fanboys who’s population segment doesn’t really hold much marketing potential in the first place.
IO jumps in, proclaiming the awards “irrelevant!” in 5, 4, 3..
“and distinctly remember telling him that I had completely forgot about the film and that people in general had as well.”
From what you said it doesn’t really sound like a very remarkable film at all now, does it?
What are you trying to say here, Don?
We can either discuss this from the point of merit, in which case your example seems useless (purely based on your description and not on the movie’s objective quality) or from the point that the release date makes all the difference in which case, little difference was made.
One fact that some people seem to be forgetting is that AMPAS has a large enough body as to be prety inert and not be very susceptible to outside influences overall. By and large they vote for whoever or whatever they themselves like. They may have tastes that somewhat much yours or you may think they are all idiots. This, and not much else, should help you decide their worth.
Another thing to keep in mind is because of how the nominations are tallied the potential for vote split is fairly large. Great, fantastic, outstanding movies get ignored, snubbed and otherwise punished all the time. C’est la Academy.
P.S. Not all movies that are snubbed are actually great. Sometimes it’s the public who’s wrong.
DP, you say you didn’t know anyone over 55 who liked The Dark Knight. Alright, but did those same people like any of the Lord of the Rings films? Because I don’t know how that would be any more up their alley. The person that rolls their eyes at superheroes is the same type that’s going to see elves and wizards and do the same thing, regardless of how handsomely it’s mounted.
Dave, you must be seriously delusional if you think TDK didn’t achieve the same level of phenomenon as Titanic or LOTR. That said, I do agree it didn’t resonate with the over-55 set and that’s why it didn’t get the nod.
lazarus, that’s got to be one of the stupidest things I’ve ever heard.
And DP, I think you’re probably right re: TDK, but seriously, do you think the nomination of The motherfucking Reader was really “more” honest? I mean, I could understand if Doubt or, hell, Revolutionary Road was nominated in its place, but The Reader? Come on.
a_loco, if you have something critical to say about my question, which was to Dave, not you, then say it. Don’t just be a douchebag.
And in response to your other comments, the fact that both of Daldry’s previous films received significant Oscar nominations makes the Academy’s choices this year look pretty “honest” to me, however disappointing.
There is no way the LOTR trilogy is better than or more worthy than The Dark Knight. But if you changed the location from a city to open landscapes, replaced Batman with actual knights, replaced the cars and Batpod with horses then it would have gotten nominated. We hear all the time how the Academy loves to nominate epics. Well, TDK is a city epic. Just because it is not a sword and sandals epic is a pretty sorry excuse to not nominate it.
Now I’m not going to lose any sleep over TDK not getting nominated. I’m not going to argue about the Oscars being irrelevant or that they are going to lose ratings. I will still watch, but they made a mistake.
Well, besides what Monco said, which I agree with, LotR was based on a beloved series of novels that lent it legitimacy. TDK was based on comic books, a medium which is still stigmatized by older people.
You’re idea that “The person that rolls their eyes at superheroes is the same type that’s going to see elves and wizards and do the same thing, regardless of how handsomely it’s mounted” is wrong. Just ask some older people, they fucking LOVED Lord of the Rings.
And not just that, LotR was released in December and had three movies to build up legitimacy. Batman Begins was good, but it wasn’t even considered for Oscar.
Lord Of the Rings absolutely had more cross-generational appeal The Dark Knight. If you don’t see it, you are seriously out of touch with with the older crowd (whatever that means),
The Dark Knight may be a populist picture but it’s populism comes primarily from the under 30 crowd. That’s not the same as having a popular film that connects with the whole range of audience, I.E. E.T., LOTR, Raiders, Titanic, even Jaws etc… Witness how the opposite was true for the likes of King Kong or Terminator 2. Older bias may matter more, and that may account for both the Reader and Ben Button.
It’s not so much a bias towards comics, it’s the fact that all of the comic movies are foundamentally very similar. LOTR was something new, at least it seemed that way.
The fact that The Dark Knight, was ON THE WHOLE OVERRATED may have been what truly sealed its fate. Every single voter who put it on their bullot may have pushed it back because they felt the movie had gotten enough (once again, the ordering matters here). Just some blind speculation.
Also, IMO had it happened most any other year in the past, the Reader’s nomination would not have been as suprising (and the reseption would have been different too).
Yes, the books have a large literary reputation, but I still don’t know why they would take the subject matter more seriously than what is for all practical purposes a crime drama. Especially when the last two winners were No Country For Old Men and The Departed.
And perhaps it’s that–fatigue over dark films with such bleak worldviews.
No Rob, Poland is full of shit, but he does explain what needs to be done to fix the Oscars. The older people vote needs to matter less. If they dislike anything that the PEOPLE like because they are old, out of touch, and closer to death than everyone else. Their votes should matter less. They did this with the Grammy’s after the old fuckers picked Steely Dan over Radiohead. It needs to happen now with the Academy.
Roman: you are also full of fucking shit. Why? RATINGS MATTER! Why does Drudge leap to post low ratings stories about the Oscars? It lowers the prestige of the ceremony. People need to see it to care. If not; it’s a fucking seat ceremony at a restaurant again. How people like you miss this point time and time again, continues to astonish me.
The Dark Knight is pretty much a generational defining film for this genre. There’s before TDK and there is after TDK. Old fuckers like Poland will never get this movie, and find something in Hancock that they think matters more than TDK. When in actually — it’s a good Peter Berg and that’s it.
Seriously; go look at the trailer for the Wolvie movie, and tell me Gavin Hood and FOX didn’t get the message sent them from Chris Nolan. Things are different now. I hope Watchmen is so fucking mindblowing, that old fucking relics have to change their minds on a medium more creative and awe-inspiring than most films that come out in year.
Sure there is a lot of garbage to shift through, but every medium has that same problem. Comics simply has more properties that knock it out of the park than Hollywood. You know Hollywood? The place whose using the comic industry to make films?
Oh yeah Poland: you still know FUCK ALL about TV and FUCK ALL about ratings. If you really think that lowly of The Dark Knight. Not only are you old, not only are you out of fucking touch, but you should really get a correction from the NECK UP. TDK was worth a good bump in audience. One million BD’s fucker, and you still feel that way? Really? How fucking sad.
lazarus, there’s a big difference between Old Country, which is a movie that Howard Hawks or Hitchcock might have made, and the movie where a guy in a rubber suit fights a clown with his batarangs.
IO: As I see it, there are 3 possible methods for implementing the change you seek:
1) Fix the voting
2) Somehow convince the majority of Academy members that it’s best to vote for ratings-bait films regardless of their personal preferences.
3) Add more members in the younger demos and revoke voting privileges after age 50.
Which seems preferable to you?
IOIOIOIO,
Ratings don’t matter to me and they don’t matter to you. Neither of us has a financial stake in the number of viewers watching the ceremony. They also do not matter to the majority of the members of the Academy who don’t really consider this when they vote. Nor should they.
Note that they may, however, take into accoutn other things, such as the desire to see a particular person’s acceptance speech but that’s completely different.
I have made a point earlier that it’s up to everyone individually to decide how much they care about certain things. There are reasons why some people don’t show up at award ceremonies and don’t pick up their statues.
Prestige isn’t defined by the number of people watching (otherwise MTV awards would be the equivalent of the Nobel Prize). It’s about WHO watches and what they thought AFTER they’ve seen it.
Perhaps your brain isn’t capable of understanding the difference. And perhaps you are begining to take things that have little to do with you directly very personally and that affects your demeanor. By the way, your tone is way out of line. I ask that you adjust it or shut the fuck up.
P.S. Things aren’t different at all. People still think that Iron Man is great and clever film. They even like Batman Begins.
Right now IO is sitting in a chair with his arms full of Batman toys, weeping gently.
Scratch that, he’s crying so loud the neighbors can hear.
I’d agree w/Monco on Dark Knight. I don’t know if it matters but many of the geriatrics read the LoTR books themselves.
And not to throw gas on IO’s fire, but I’d actually argue that the Spider Man franchise on the whole is the “generational defining film(s)” of the comic book genre. It’s splitting hairs, but I don’t imagine there’d be a rebooted Batman franchise at all without it.
“P.S. Not all movies that are snubbed are actually great. Sometimes it’s the public who’s wrong.”
True, but not this time. I’m with IO – TDK is an epochal event in it’s genre just as Die Hard (action), and Jurassic Park (SFX) were in theirs. Not just a movie where the audience come out thinking ‘wow, that was really great’, but ‘man, things will not be the same from now on’. Die Hard was not nominated for any major Oscars in 1988. Which movie have you watched or thought of more in the past twenty years – Die Hard or any of the following: Gorillas in the Mist, Working Girl or The Accidental Tourist? Just asking.
TDK has none of the action acumen of DH. And DH has none of the dark tone of TDK. Apples and Oranges.
Yeah, the Die Hard was pretty off and what you said about The Dark Knight was a stretch.
Tons of people went to see The Dark Knight on the opening weekend, way before public at large had a chance to decide its merits. It was a presold blockbuster that also happened to be well received (which in turn fueled it’s grosses). It’s one of the biggest films of the decade. It is not the phenomenon of the decade nor is it a movie of a lifetime. Lots of movies held this place, some climbed even higher.
And if you must know, I honestly thought about Working Girl more and possibly even Accidental Tourist (I’m a big Kasdan fan) too. That said, I like the original Die Hard, it’s a good action film I’ll give you that (from what I recall of it anyway). I don’t really think your analogy worked though.
The Academy can hardly be expected to vote based on what’s most likely to be remembered best 20 years down the road. Even so, I’m sure most voters with an IQ above room temperature realized that a huge popular hit like Die Hard would live on in the collective memory to a greater degree than The Accidental Tourist. But that has nothing to do with voting for your personal preference.
And DIE HARD had zero expectations — Fox even hid Bruce Willis behind a building on the poster! I saw DH opening day, loved it immediately and dragged at least a dozen people to see it over the summer as word-of-mouth spread. Good times.
Compare that to the amazing Bat Logo campaign that set up Burton’s ginormous BATMAN opening. That was more epochal and actually helped gear up studios to produce more comic book films.
IO, aside from your normal and loud myopia (wake me when you are actually interested in listening instead of just yelling over what was said so you can just keep saying what you want to keep saying regardless of what the other person is actually saying)…
There are many great loves in the movie theater. The Dark Knight was a major event this year. (The BD sales prove nothing however, as already-owned PS3s were in millions of homes of the exact demo for the film and any PS3/HDTV owner who didn’t by the blu-ray and cared for the movie in the least would be a Grade A idiot.)
But the reason Rings became an Academy movie – and God knows, it was said to be impossible for longer and louder than the hum against TDK this year – was because of the trilogy, the money, the timing, and yes, because of the history of the book.
As for TDK being an influencer on marketing… really, man… look at the first Batman movie and tell me which influenced which. The outdoor on TDK was right out of the earlier Batmovies. The spots and trailer were highly reflective of the first Burton film.
You can say I don’t know shit all you like, but I know my history of the last 30 years of movies as well as anyone you know… and you are screaming like a teenager who thinks he knows everything and thinks every f-ing remake is The Original.
You force me into arguing against TDK when I have no interest in doing so. There is NOTHING shocking about 20% of The Academy not voting for this film in the first 3 slots. Nothing.
Finally, to others, when I say “honest,” I mean to say that this is what they really felt. I don’t think The Reader belongs on this list either. But that’s true of movies almost every year. But I know that there was a real constituency for (and against) the film and that it was one of three or four films in a similar position, where there was some love, some hate, and a whole lot of lukewarm. I would be shocked if Doubt wasn’t very, very close to the vote count that got The Reader in.
Oscar is not The Answer. It is a popularity vote amongst 6000 elites, mostly over 50. Try to have some perspective and be happy – thrilled, really – that the Home Entertainment evolution means that they no longer define what you will have the chance to see at home and for the ages anymore. And remember how many movies you may have loved better than the nominees or winners if you were going to the movies in the 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s or 70s…
DAVID POLAND, YOU HAVE THE WRONG MOVIE LISTED FOR KATE WINLET’S ‘BEST ACTRESS’ NOM IN YOUR CHARTS! (sorry about the caps, i’m trying to shout so you might notice)
I would agree with Wally about Die Hard…if I got to choose, that would have won for Best Picture. I do think a lot of the Academy movies are snores a lot of times, and no one will remember or care about them years past while more fun genre films stay remebered…but then again, I remember Bloodsucking Freaks or I Eat Your Skin better than whatever was nominated ten years ago, but I doubt I Eat Your Skin is “better.”
But Die Hard is ten times better than TDK. It is a perfect movie…and while I loved TDK, it’s sort of a mess.
Opinions are fun!
Wait, so Poland, what are the 55+ folks liking then?
Well, some of us like fucking. Oh, wait, did you mean what movies do we like?
‘die-hard’ is one of my all-time favourite movies
Bad Santa! Bad, bad Santa!
Thanks for the Friday visual, Leydon. Now I have a reason to get myself Lex-Drunk later. Doubt it’ll help.
And Roman-
I didn’t particularly go hog wild over “Wall-E,” I just remember TONS of people saying it was a BP shoe-in then completely forgetting about it as the year went on. Between TDK hype/buzz/cash and the usual Oscar roll out, “Wall-E” slipped from peoples minds, I think.
I mean, lord knows Pixar isn’t in it for the awards, they’re in it for the CASH (and storytelling) but had “Wall-E” come out in December or late summer/early fall instead of June, it would be a BP nominee I think.
Yeah, to say that the ratings would dip this year because of TDK not being nominated for BP is B.S. If one was to argue that more people would tune into the telecast because it was nominated for BP I’d venture to guess that those same people will be tuning in anyway to see if Heath Ledger gets an Oscar.
Does nobody want to discuss the truly astonishing feat of Stephen Daldry?… He’s made 3 movies, and all 3 have been nominated for BP/BD.
Truly Stephen Daldry must be one of the greatest filmmakers in history!
He must now take his place alongside the runs of Stanley Kubrick (1964-75), Francis Ford Coppola (1972-79), and even Martin Scorsese (2002-2006)!!!
Is anyone foreseeing a possible scenario in which THE READER actually wins?
(Speaking of idiotic, here goes, but bear with me:)
It’s last out of the gate and has nowhere to go but up. Most everything else has peaked (BB, SM) or not happened (F/N, M.) It skews old. It’s “proper” upscale granite Oscar material of the ’80s.
“Button” doesn’t seem to have the passion from voters going into the stretch. It’s this year’s “Atonement.”
“Milk” hasn’t quite happened and will be seen (wrongly) as more an actors’ piece then even, say, epic, cinematic “Brokeback.”
“Frost/Nixon” is this year’s “Quiz Show.”
I’d wager it could come down between SM and Reader, and at the end of the day, I see the former as being too “current” and slick and “other” for the safe tastes in question. Just saying, one movie is Fiennes and Winslet and serious and proper… and the other has a kid diving into an outhouse shitpile.
If you were to count influence as importance than I
MarkVH is right that Spider-Man was more defining than TDK. TDK’s money was launched by Ledger’s death in his most popular role ever and lucky enough to be a great film. So for a studio, the elements necessary to replicate TDK, (a long, dark, sequel built around the twenty year-old revival of two 70 year-old icons), is near-impossible. But Spider-Man, (an origin story where hero and villain are intertwined from birth), is possible. In truth, Spider-Man follows Batman 89’s Joker storyarc beat-by-beat.
If IO made the argument that TDK’s once-in-a-moon occurrence deserved an Oscar, then I’d be with him. But a “revolution in cinema” isn’t accurate. If it was, Marvel would be following that model and making IM2, Thor, Cap, etc… darker. Instead, they’re following the Spidey model which worked for IM. As for Wolverine, the trailer is pretty tough, but to think it’s because of TDK only works if you ignore Punisher:War Zone – the other dark, violent superhero movie with a crazy villain and obsessed anti-hero.
And since we’re talking TDK and Oscars, does anyone else think after Nolan saw No Country he wished he could go back and swap Dent for another storyline? Chigurh’s coin flip as metaphor was an unbeatable adaptation of Two-Face.
bored stiff of the bat
hey mutiny, related to you comment on the academy’s love for daldry, david hare must be pinching himself while riding gleefully on daldry’s beloved coat tails to his second ‘adapted’ nom in so many years.
I tend to think –and maybe this is too simplistic– that the addition of Best Animated Feature has eliminated the possibility of there ever being another animated Best Picture nominee. Even if you think Wall-E is one of the 5 best movies of the year, but there’s that 6th one you reallllllly have a soft spot for it’s easy to move Wall-E to the other slot, slide in the other “proper” film, have your cake, eat it, etc….
I don’t agree with that but it seems obvious. I’d be tempted, too.
As for Dark Knight….I dunno. I am among those who reject The Reader wholesale. So that slot could be filled preferably with one of several other options.
Dark Knight feels like maybe the last, best chance to get a comic book/superhero movie nominated. I think it’s overrated, too, but in terms of melding Oscar style scope, themes and ambition along with a guy in a rubber suit….I really don’t know what else could one-up it enough to be nominated. Watchmen, I suppose, but I don’t see it. They even ignored great graphic novel adaptations like Ghost World and History of Violence. I think Y: The Last Man could make a stunning movie. But if Cronenberg at his best can’t get respect, then all hope is lost.
I even wonder if things have changed so much that Jaws, Star Wars, Raiders of the Lost Ark, ET, etc would have a prayer if they were made in 2008.
It’s a popularity contest, no doubt. But it’s also a patronizing affair that tries to convince us they appreciate “art,” over “empty popcorn fare.” “See, we gave you Slumdog Millionaire! This where our heart is, not with Iron Man. We made that to please YOU! Now stay tuned during ads for Watchmen, Wolverine, Friday the 13th and Star Trek.”
I’ll still watch though. It is what it is.
Triple – Begins only got re-booted because of Spidey’s success. Before Spidey, IIRC, WB was looking at an AK Walker Batman/Superman script and a sequel/relaunch that used the Scarecrow’s fear poison as a flashback segue to the Wayne murders. Aronofsky’s Year One then came about, and at some point, Goyer combined the Scarecrow elements with Year One.
Casino Royale was also direct response as a Goldfinger remake with Brosnan was being pushed before Spidey. It was an easier trend to follow than trying to mimic the LOTR/Matrix/Star Wars “destiny” trilogy.
“Is anyone foreseeing a possible scenario in which THE READER actually wins?”
Nope. Where’s the love? Without the phenomenon of Winslet’s acclaim feeding off Revolutionary Road and The Reader and back again in an oscillating cycle of admiration, I don’t think The Reader would have been remembered right now for any awards.
I think Slumdog Millionaire’s win got chiselled in stone once the final five came out and you could see the dynamics (or non-existence of dynamics) in the Best Picture category finally laid out. I remember the atmosphere around Quiz Show, and Frost/Nixon is definitely not even at that level.
“Just saying, one movie is Fiennes and Winslet and serious and proper… and the other has a kid diving into an outhouse shitpile.”
Well, that didn’t hurt Schindler’s List now did it?
“… does anyone else think after Nolan saw No Country he wished he could go back and swap Dent for another storyline? Chigurh’s coin flip as metaphor was an unbeatable adaptation of Two-Face.”
One poor sap of a reviewer had the terrible fortune of never knowing of Two-Face, and claimed the coin flip was a direct ripoff. Oh, the flogging was swift with that one.
would have preferred just about anything nominated over the Reader…a too-clever book made into a cold movie. Yecch.
What about the non-idiotic second guessing, can that start too?
To use The Dark Knight as a glaring litmus of the Oscar’s irrelevance/stupidity/close-mindedness is a complete err, it is a turgid, dumb yet somehow condescending mess fueled by an extraordinary performance. And I say this as someone who loves Batman Begins and Iron Man.
Warner has been delusional for a quite some time with things they have been pushing for awards: 300, The Brave One, I Am Legend, We Are Marshall, The Fountain (which I loved and feel surely deserved the SFX award), and even Batman Begins.
To see all of the nominations for Slumdog but not a single acting nomination is far more telltale.
Also telltale is overlooking Shareeka Epps in favor Abigail Breslin in 2006. Or Crash winning Best Picture.
LexG, you may be on to something. Wasn’t “Crash”, for a while, considered the darkest horse in the race that year?
As for the Oscars losing “prestige” and “relevance” because they don’t echo the popular taste in film, maybe someone should send a friendly warning to the Nobel Prize organization. They’ve been giving the prize in literature to a lot of writers not even writing in English, whose books rarely make the NYT bestseller list. They keep giving it to people like Gunther Grass and not Stephen King and they’ll loose all relevance.
“Warner has been delusional for a quite some time with things they have been pushing for awards: 300, The Brave One, I Am Legend, We Are Marshall, The Fountain (which I loved and feel surely deserved the SFX award), and even Batman Begins.”
But in this case, Warner Bros wasn’t delusional at all in thinking The Dark Knight could get into the best picture race. The movie got major respect, major acclaim, and took off at the box office in a significant way (which isn’t saying it buys the movie a Best Pic slot. It’s saying it was a hit in every comparable respect). Not to mention the fact that it was a weak year for candidates in the first place (Frost/Nixon and The Reader aren’t exactly bulletproof, and they’re in the top five here).
No, it wasn’t received with unanimous acclaim; and yes, there are people that hate it, shrug it, snore at it, scoff and jeer like there’s no tomorrow. But honsestly, look at every other movie that WAS nominated and then tell me which one could reach a bar set high enough to evade all of that. Is it none of them? The only film that came out all year that could is probably Man On Wire.
TDK didn’t make the cut, okay, okay. And bithcing about it won’t change the fact. But the idea that it was an insane idea is absolutely ridiculous. It was qualified whether you liked it or not.
“TDK didn’t make the cut, okay, okay. And bithcing about it won’t change the fact. But the idea that it was an insane idea is absolutely ridiculous. It was qualified whether you liked it or not.”
Absolutely spot on Hallick.
I am not a comic book geek. I don’t own comics.
I don’t buy toys. But I believe THE DARK KNIGHT is one of the best films of the year, the GODFATHER of comic book incarnations, a complex, layered, epic that was also a parable of corruption and extremism.
How it did not get nominated as Best Picture is beyond me.
Considering how Wall-E had just been favored by the majority of online critics (such an august organization) in a recent MCN posting as the best movie of the year and yet was totally shut out of PB and tossed into the ghetto instead to battle it out with Bolt and Kung-Fu Panda (which are truly it’s equals, after all), then perhaps the whole concept of BP is broken.
If the Academy really does think ghetto awards are valuable and worthwhile, then why not replace BP with three ghetto awards–Best Drama, Best Comedy, and Best Adventure (and if it happens to be a musical I’m sure you could shoehorn it into one of those three). The categories would then be much more honest and people who don’t give a rat’s ass about all those soft-headed weepies might actually have an interest in showing up to see who won a real award.
Mutiny, Billy Elliot was not nominated for Best Picture. Stephen Daldry was that year’s “lone director”. He did, however, get the Best Director/Picture double with The Hours and now The Reader.
BTW, has nobody for one second thought that, much like many people had a morbid curiosity towards The Dark Knight because of the passing of Heath Ledger, that maybe some this “older generation” people keep talking about (the same generation that nominated Star Wars, Raiders of the Lost Ark, Jaws and Towering Inferno when they were younger) had a strong curiosity towards The Reader due to the passing of both Anthony Minghella and Sydney Pollack? And perhaps that’s why they nominated it – plus they thought it was a decent enough movie – and not as some devious ploy to keep The Dark Knight out.
In fact, why aren’t more people crying foul over the ridiculously easy ride Frost/Nixon (and Ron Howard for that matter) received in this year’s race. At least fans of The Reader are passionate. Does anybody have anything but polite regards for Frost/Nixon?
What movie will become the “underdog”. Surely Fox Searchlight can’t keep up the ridiculous charade that Slumdog Millionaire is in any way shape or form the “underdog” in this race anymore.
Alex, Shareeka Epps? Really? As good as she may have been (I haven’t seen it – blame the film’s 8 month distribution wait for that) it’s not the sort of example anyone else would use to show why the Academy are idiots.
I agree with Kami…
If people are complaining about safe, predictable, anodyne Oscar bait, then Frost/Nixon should be the whipping boy, not The Reader.
The Reader is not without considerable flaws, but I dug its morally ambiguous, psychosexual, Joseph Losey-ish vibe. It’s also the most sexually explicit best pic nominee since, at least, The Piano.
A stiff upper lip Masterpiece Theater item it is not.
Poland: I learned from the best. I simply use the fucking hammer better than you ever fucking have. If you want to hide your chest hair long enough, and not call me an idiot.
If you think it’s myopia. You hackneyed ass. I think it works both ways. If you do not see that what you posted is incredibly myopic compared to WHAT FUCKING HAPPENED LAST YEAR. Well… DENIAL ain’t just a river in EYGPT! Seriously sir; you lack the ability to even argue with me because you think you are superiour. Wow. How sad.
Not as sad as a bunch of mooks coming on here who hated TDK, and are not speaking up… figuratively. Where were you mooks before? Seriously; where the fuck were you? You can speak up now, but it’s too late for anyone to not see you as Poland Butt-Apologist. Get your noses right up there. Keep going.
Perm: Fuck you.
Martin S: Spider-man does not matter anymore because of 3. Sony shows unbelievable ineptitude by rehiring that cast after the film many fans see as an ABORTION! Do not even get me started on how many people hate the first Spidey and the third Spidey, but love Spidey 2 with all sorts of vigor. Seriously; it’s the Dark Knight. If you do not get Wally’s point, then you are not pay attention enough.
“Alex, Shareeka Epps? Really? As good as she may have been (I haven’t seen it – blame the film’s 8 month distribution wait for that) it’s not the sort of example anyone else would use to show why the Academy are idiots.”
I dunno. I remember hearing a little of that back then. Half Nelson had a lot of love in its corner and you can still look back at some web pages that have her in the running before the nominations came out. I’d like to know how it’s Breslin’s fault specifically when there were four other nominees who bumped Epps out of the picture; plus god knows who else if she wasn’t even sixth in the final tally.
IO,IO,IOI…I’m with you in the belief that The Dark Knight got snubbed, but come on, be serious. The people you’re slamming as “mooks” didn’t just all of the sudden pop up out of nowhere and start criticising TDK. They’ve been vocal since the day that movie came out in theaters, with no dearth of shyness on the topic. Everything I’ve read here this week is pretty much the same thing I read on the blog last summer.
I mean, were you NOT fighting with them back then, too? Am I remembering this wrong?
IO, if you were standing in front of me, I’d smash your teeth in.
“To see all of the nominations for Slumdog but not a single acting nomination is far more telltale.”
Who’s the last Best Picture nominee to win without any acting nods? I guess you could say that Lord of the Rings:Return of the King did it, if you make an exception for Ian McKellan’s nomination 2 years earlier.
Past that there’s The Last Emperor in ’87, and a glut of them in the 1950’s for some reason (Gigi, Around the World in 80 Days, The Greatest Show on Earth, and An American in Paris).
There’s a reason why the Lord of the Rings movies got Oscar nominations: Harvey Weinstein. Miramax put the LOTR series into turnaround yet Weinstein kept his name attached as an executive producer. Given his history of buying awards it wouldn’t be a stretch to say the whole procedure was fixed.
Since “Quiz Show” was brought up in this conversation I can say the Oscar process is just as rigged. Let “60 Minutes”, “Dateline NBC”, Fox News Channel or CNN dig up dirt on Weinstein and his dealings. It won’t be long before the Oscars are permanently discredited.
Quiz Show has a much stronger third act than The Dark Knight.
The imagined snub of TDK and the non-stop outrage has managed to turn my indifference of the film into a loathing. If I hadn’t seen the film in IMAX I most likely would have walked out before it ended. I’m sorry. It wasn’t revolutionary or transgressive. It was a good sequel. For me the film was pretty dull in its last third and frankly ‘this perfect film’ was a bit of a mess. Nolan tried to channel Sidney Lumet but he mostly ended up pulling off a big budget Stephen J. Cannell.
IO, why are you letting yourself get so angry over something that doesn’t matter?
Boam: your hatred of this genre is well know. So it’s no surprise you went down this road, but people have a right to be pissed. Over 55 assholes are ruining the Oscars. These people are getting older and more out of touch. They will be 60 in 5 years, and imagine how different things will be in the year 2014?
If the Academy is serious, and what’s to continually be seen as RELEVANT. They have to get younger people in there, or slowly phase out the old people who are keeping the Oscars from being important. Remember: these assholes dislike David Fincher. They must pay for their insulence!
Perm: fat does not move that quick.
Hallick: they can hate all the want, but they are being snippy. I hate it when they get snippy.
Brack: anger is an energy, and I love it when Poland acts like a dick. He’s so not a dick, that his dickatude makes me giggle.
‘There’s a reason why the Lord of the Rings movies got Oscar nominations: Harvey Weinstein. Miramax put the LOTR series into turnaround yet Weinstein kept his name attached as an executive producer. Given his history of buying awards it wouldn’t be a stretch to say the whole procedure was fixed.’
chucky, did you bang your head diving into your above-ground swimming pool? nutjob
(could daldry&hare be the new boyle&hodge?)
Oh, let’s just stop this now. SLUMDOG sweeps. America yawns. The End.
“Over 55 assholes are ruining the Oscars.”
they have earned the right to vote, so they can vote for who and whatever they want. Sometimes nominations are a nice surprise, sometime they are dull and safe–they don;t have to owe bloggers an explanation.
if anything IO, you are detracting from your beloved. i liked TDK but there are more effective ways to be a fan for the movie. Perhaps Academy members visiting Dpo’s blog in the last year have been put off by you…and chose not to nominate it.
It’s your fault.
IO, you called me fat? That’s the best you have? You mindless prick, why not just go for the mom’s basement insult? It’s almost as weak.
Especially since I’m not fat and all, and quick enough to catch your cowardly ass!
Yay for TDK not getting a nomiation! I hope the sequel has Peguin played by Ricky Gervais and they let Paul W.S> Anderson direct it.
“Over 55 assholes” may be ruining the Oscars, but just one asshole is ruining this blog.
IO, Poland is superior to you. That’s probably why he tolerates you.
And as far as the director’s nods are concerned, can we at least all agree that a better director was chosen. I mean Daldryl, for all the flack he’s gotten by going 3 for 3, is a superior, more sensative director to Nolan.
Shame about the likes of Howard though.
“If the Academy is serious, and what’s to continually be seen as RELEVANT. They have to get younger people in there, or slowly phase out the old people who are keeping the Oscars from being important. Remember: these assholes dislike David Fincher. They must pay for their insulence!”
I see a lot of young people, be they movie reviewers or bloggers, getting a lot of traffic on the internet and filling up the cyberspace with their endless opinions, speculations and other chatter. Most of them are complete idiots, with no taste or understanding. But boy, are these bastards ever opinionated. I just learned to ignore their noise. A lot of them sound just like IO, incidentially. Not all of them as bad or as stupid, obviously but by and large there is a very good reason why salried print critics are more respected. Shame there are fewer and fewer of them.
And whoever thought that Lord of the Rings (a MUCH MUCH SUPERIOR SERIES OF MOVIES) got nominated because of Weinstein are kidding themselves.
And IO, you or other weiners will never get SYMPATHY (especially when your friggin movie got 8 fucking nods, even in those categories it didn’t deserve. I can list them for your pleasure – available by request.). I didn’t whine when Minority Report or other masterpieces were ignored so just shut up. Another person who has to say just how FUCKING BIG or Important any movie was will get ignored.
Io – if you’re saying Spidey3 made the series irrelevant, than I agree. It needs to be re-booted, but Sony and Marvel are mortified at the idea.
But, if you’re implying that Spidey3 has made producers and studios forget the formula of the first one in favor of TDK’s approach, then you’re just wrong. One of the problems WB is having is the inability to find a template in TDK’s success. A Nolan-serious approach to the majority of its characters can have the opposite effect by showing how absurd its conceit actually is.
“Daldryl, for all the flack he’s gotten by going 3 for 3, is a superior, more sensative director to Nolan.”
I can’t agree with this. While I liked Billy Elliot, both it and The Hours (which I loathed) show a taste for melodrama, sentimentality, and thematic shallowness that hold him back from really being at all superior to Nolan.
i’d see a nolan flick over a daldry pic any day.
io is the george w. bush of ‘dark knight’ fandom: ‘if yer not with us, yer against us!!!’ (which i guess would make david poland, big perm and jbd the dreaded ‘axis of evil’)
“Oh, let’s just stop this now. SLUMDOG sweeps. America yawns. The End.”
What, America’s not yawning already?
‘i’d see a nolan flick over a daldry pic any day.’
I’ll drink to that.
Perm,
you are onto something there. Rickey gervais would be quite good. and get SBC to be the Riddler.
make a chick-flick style subplot and get it directed by Uwe Boll or Eli Roth
leah — that poster you mentioned is pretty much the george w. bush of everything….
i’ll drink to that, scoot…and i’ll drink to you drinking to my comment, lota (any excuse to drink, really)
sbc…fucking acronyms…sacha b. cohen? he’d be a bonza riddler, actually. but boll and roth can get bent (no offence but i sorta loathe them both). john carpenter in a big shake-up of action/horror genre for the next bat, that would be messed up
yes, the Staines Massif’ he is, SBC
I am being facetious of course about the director…since those guys couldn’t direct a bowel movement. oh wait they have already.
yeah, how does it go again?
aaaand action! push…push…yes, that’s it, really straining now…let’s see it on the face, squinting hard…oh, you got it…here it comes…and release! that’s it, relief, you got it, great job. now, flush…and cut! that’s a wrap. awesome.
you know, i actually think boll and roth COULD do that justice
“I can’t agree with this. While I liked Billy Elliot, both it and The Hours (which I loathed) show a taste for melodrama, sentimentality, and thematic shallowness that hold him back from really being at all superior to Nolan.”
Am I supposed to be shocked by this? First of all I loved The Hours and second I would never equate sentimentaly with shallowness (even if that’s not what you meant you still grouped them together, so to speak). Actually, in Duldry’s case I think both of the movies showed thematic toughness which I found both refreshing and complelling. Those were mean movies, man. To be blunt, I disagree with your assessment of his work. That’s why I called him sensative and not that other word.
It takes a man with particular dispositions to make certain kinds of dramas. Sometimes sentimentality is the way to go and sometimes its something that informs directors in unexpected ways and gives them edge. This is sort of how I felt about “The Fountain”.
Perm: seriously, you couldn’t fight me and win if you tried. It’s funny that you think you can, but I will get up in your face. I will get up in Jeff’s face, Roman’s face, and Poland’s face. You think a punch scares me? Really? Now you go comfort eat, and leave everyone else alone.
Lota: it’s about getting certain films a shot. While dillholes like Roman may not understand what happened with the Dark Knight. The people do, and the old fuckers ignore the people.
The Grammy’s fixed this problem by evening out their median age. This at least got edgier acts at least a CHANCE at a nominations. That’s the point dumb fuckers like Roman are missing. The Dark Knight took a genre to another level. Those films are special and at least deserve a SHOT at a nomination.
The fact that people like Roman miss out on the whole “THE ACADEMY PLAYED THE ‘NAZI CUMUPENCE’ CARD” again is beyond me. You have to be a complete and utterly waste of space in terms of a cinema lover to miss what happened last July.
Eric: 10 years after Blair Witch? How that treating you dawg?
Roman: I do not want fucking sympathy assclown. Have you not read one post? Seriously? Read them. I could care less how the old people on this blog feel. I am more right than they are, and I never thought Dreamgirls was BP worthy.
If he’s so fucking superiour. He can keep on thinking that way, but it goes like this. You should try to keep up: Me, Lex, and the rest of you clowns. We bring the hits, you bring the misses, and everything else goes in between. I am finished with this topic now. May the Academy right their wrongs, may David Fincher be vindicated, and may a Pixar film win for writing and not animation. BA BA BOOEY TO YOU ALL!
Roman, I just don’t see it in his work. Billy Elliot was a fine film that I felt lapsed, at points, into taking the easy route. I don’t have a problem with sentimentality per se but it has to be balanced with something else, or ladled out in the right doses, and not an end in itself.
The Hours, on the other hand, just seemed like a misguided film from the get-go and I totally resisted it all the way through – but I also didn’t see that its slog was going to be met with any real payoff at the end. Tastes differ, but I found it to be grinding and miserable in the literal sense of the word.
I’ll drink to both of Scooter and Leah’s comments except that even George W. Bush could, you know feign enough intelligence to get elected.
“We were, happily, wrong… not because I am rooting against The Bat, but because I feel this was a more honest outcome. ”
Gag. Sorry, you’ve been sleeping through Oscar season. You don’t get to comment on this. Your very own compilation of best films on all top ten lists disagrees with you. So perhaps you or your compilation is wrong? “Honest”? Um. Poor word choice. Corrupt is a better one. Go back to sleep, DP.
“BA BA BOOEY TO YOU ALL!”
Ooooooo – lookie lookie! A coup de farce!
What ratings would the Oscar telecast have to pull for DP to concede that a lack of Bat hurt?
“What ratings would the Oscar telecast have to pull for DP to concede that a lack of Bat hurt? ”
Boy, am I sick of idiots repeating their idiotic mantras. Yes, we all agree that if AMPAS nominated only the popular movies they ratings would be higher. Popularity contests are always popular but who or what would be hurt then?
And who would be hurt by lower ratings now? And why do YOU care?
And as a bonus, do you really think that AMPAS ratings will suffer a serious longterm multi-year damage by the lack of TDK’s best actor nod this year. And shouldn’t those Bat fans at least partially have a steak in the movie’s other 8 nods? And if they do not then why should we care about their opinions in the first place?
You know one of the good things about TDK not being nominated is that the fan-geek fury will evaporate before Oscar night. I half way believe that if it had been in the race and then (inevitably) lost out to SLUMDOG or MILK, noxious hate speech (if not out and out violence) would have been up for days.
That’s a good point actually.
“Sorry, you’ve been sleeping through Oscar season. You don’t get to comment on this.”
Uh… do you have a citation somewhere – ANYWHERE – where I suggest that my personal taste has anything to do with the Oscar race?
As for the rest… zzzzzzz… scoreboard.
AND… there is no way to functionally prove or disprove the ratings as they relate to Bat noms. All I can tell you is the history I know.
There is, actually, no clear correlation between ratings and popular films. There are huge ratings for the couple of cutural phenom films of the last few decades.
The first two Rings didn’t spike ratings. The one that was sure to win did.
Juno was the highest grossing nominee (domestic) since Rings… ratings still down.
1999, 2000… last two times that there were three $100 million-plus films competing (including the phenom, The Sixth Sense)… no ratings bump.
Regardless, the reality is the reality… over-55s do not care about TDK and they are the nominators and the voters.
Ironically, expect TDK to win the 2nd or 3rd most Oscars on the night.
The Over 55s would rather make their ceremony a joke by once again nominating a film with NAZIS! Seriously; if they are that limited in their view of films. The ACADEMY AWARDS REALITY show should be making it’s way to Bravo any day now.
Again: you miss the point Heat. People would have turned in because it was the SECOND HIGHEST GROSSING DOMESTIC PICTURE EVER THAT MOST PEOPLE REALLY LOVE! What does it take to get that through your thick fucking skull? Most people would have turned in assuming the film they all thought was the best of the year would WIN! It’s going to be really funny when it starts racking up technical awards throughout the night, then suddenly it stops when it gets to the important categories. Why? THE NAZIS MUST BE STOPPED, AND WINSLET ONCE AGAIN SHOWED HER BOOBS!
You live in a world with old 55 year olf fuckers, that have a different view on film than most of the country. This is a problem. It’s not as much as a problem as fucking Roman. Whose so damn dense. He thinks TDK is like the TRANSFORMERS. It’s fucking not, you dolt. It’s something different. It’s something better. It’s something special except to asses like you. Who really think geeks would turn on the Indian kid and the gay guy if they beat the bat. Uh no… their outrage is focused solely on The Reader and nothing else. If it loses. It’s loses. It is supposed to be an honour to be nominated.
Nevertheless Poland; you go ask those 55 year old fuckers. If they would like a movie about a stree teen from LA. Who got a chance to make money on a game show. Hell. Ask them if they would give a shit if it was Appalachian Millionaire. I doubt it, and that’s the point. Open your eyes.
What you don’t seem to be able to process, IO, is that if you don’t like what The Academy is, you shouldn’t be whining about how they feel about TDK. You should be uncaring, as I am about the insults you hurl around in here.
Your problem is, for all your drama, is that you take Oscar more seriously than me or most anyone else in here. Moreover, you obsess on this as though you really aren’t confident about the importance of TDK… you need affirmation from people who the film doesn’t have an interest in entertaining. Buy a pair, please. You’ll enjoy the confidence they bring.
People who can’t understand that how they feel is not neccessarily how everyone feels and are dissapointed by that are not dolts… but they sure aren’t adults.
sadly, i bet there’s more of a ratings bump from gawkers tuning in to the oscars to fawn over the ever-sickening ‘brad and angelina’ sideshow than would have tuned in to see how ‘the dark knight’ fared at the awards ceremony anyway (it’ll be interesting to see what instructions the camera operators are given re: shooting the star-studded audience, i may have to forgo food before watching)
I was told in strict confidence by someone that TDK was lousy.
If the Academy did have a higher percentage of younger voters, they’d still likely be typical progressive “art pour art” voters, not Frank Miller fan club types. Rather than having TDK up for more awards, it would simply have occasioned BROKEBACK winning over CRASH for the simple fact that younger people tend to be more pro-gay than senior citizens (and that race had to be within a dozen votes.) As for this year, it would have made MILK the front runner. Either way, TDK loses.
A: Didn’t IO say he was done with this discussion? Stand by your word, man.
b: Is he going to cap himself on his 55th birthday?
Logan’s Run II: IO Hits 55
At this rate, he will spontaneously combust before hitting 30.