I have been persona non grata with Kevin Smith for a long while now. But I keep on hoping that he will become as good a filmmaker as he is a raconteur.
Someone sent me blu-ray of Zack & Miri Make A Porno, I had no idea what to expect. But in I jumped.
And you know what
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It shows how out of it I was in trying to be in it, acknowledging that I was out of it to myself, and then thinking, “Okay, how do I stop being out of it? Well, I get some legitimate illogical narrative ideas” — some novel, you know?
So I decided on three writers that I might be able to option their material and get some producer, or myself as producer, and then get some writer to do a screenplay on it, and maybe make a movie.
And so the three projects were “Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep,” “Naked Lunch” and a collection of Bukowski. Which, in 1975, forget it — I mean, that was nuts. Hollywood would not touch any of that, but I was looking for something commercial, and I thought that all of these things were coming.
There would be no Blade Runner if there was no Ray Bradbury. I couldn’t find Philip K. Dick. His agent didn’t even know where he was. And so I gave up.
I was walking down the street and I ran into Bradbury — he directed a play that I was going to do as an actor, so we know each other, but he yelled “hi” — and I’d forgot who he was.
So at my girlfriend Barbara Hershey’s urging — I was with her at that moment — she said, “Talk to him! That guy really wants to talk to you,” and I said “No, fuck him,” and keep walking.
But then I did, and then I realized who it was, and I thought, “Wait, he’s in that realm, maybe he knows Philip K. Dick.” I said, “You know a guy named—” “Yeah, sure — you want his phone number?”
My friend paid my rent for a year while I wrote, because it turned out we couldn’t get a writer. My friends kept on me about, well, if you can’t get a writer, then you write.”
~ Hampton Fancher
“That was the most disappointing thing to me in how this thing was played. Is that I’m on the phone with you now, after all that’s been said, and the fundamental distinction between what James is dealing with in these other cases is not actually brought to the fore. The fundamental difference is that James Franco didn’t seek to use his position to have sex with anyone. There’s not a case of that. He wasn’t using his position or status to try to solicit a sexual favor from anyone. If he had — if that were what the accusation involved — the show would not have gone on. We would have folded up shop and we would have not completed the show. Because then it would have been the same as Harvey Weinstein, or Les Moonves, or any of these cases that are fundamental to this new paradigm. Did you not notice that? Why did you not notice that? Is that not something notable to say, journalistically? Because nobody could find the voice to say it. I’m not just being rhetorical. Why is it that you and the other critics, none of you could find the voice to say, “You know, it’s not this, it’s that”? Because — let me go on and speak further to this. If you go back to the L.A. Times piece, that’s what it lacked. That’s what they were not able to deliver. The one example in the five that involved an issue of a sexual act was between James and a woman he was dating, who he was not working with. There was no professional dynamic in any capacity.
~ David Simon
The brother really does seem like he’s ready to take it to another level. It’s about time. He has the skillz, the talent, and Scott Mosier. The fucking guy can go places. He just has to be willing to put the extra key in the Bulgatti, and amp it up to 250. If you get what I am stating.
[waits for Jeff to ask for an explanation]
I dunno, I normally enjoy Smith’s films, and I thought this one was pretty dull.
The final act was very atrocious and went a long way to making it completely undesireable as a rewatch prospect.
Plus, I know the whole point was that their movie wasn’t good and that only their high school “friends” would watch it, but… god damn that was a terrible porn movie they were making. Even by porn standards I bet.
He’s been making the same movie for awhile. There’s more polish now, but it’s essentially the same movie he’s been making for 15 years.
Loveable losers.
Sex.
Star Wars References.
Shuffle.
Repeat.
There’s no growth, at least from my perspective, in his work. I think at certain points, everyone finds his work entertaining, but you gain nothing by watching all of his films. If you’ve seen Clerks and Dogma, you’ve seen the entire creative spectrum of his output.
And i’m not even bashing the guy. I think he makes an entertaining movie, he just keeps making it over and over and over and over again (Dogma being the exception).
I don’t think Zach and Miri is any better than Clerks/Chasing Amy/Dogma. In fact, I enjoy all Kevin Smith’s films at about the same level. He is pretty predictable that way.
I am curious if he can work in a different genre.
I’m interested in this one because of Smith bringing in a lot of Apatow’s people. I sort of like Smith, but his writing is so overly precious and then he casts actors who are decent but not excellent…and the movies come off like awkward high school plays. A lot of his younger actors seem done in by his dialogue, while someone like Alan Rickman can make anything work and he does okay.
Actually, I thought Zack and Miri was easily Smith’s best film.
It was so much more polished than his previous efforts (all of which I at least liked), and I thought the serious moments were actually some of the better ones – his use of the Live song was the best music cue of the year.
Aside from the presence of a couple of his regulars, in fact, I would never have guessed Smith was responsible. Well, except for the stupid fecal gag, which should have been left on the cutting room floor.
That’s funny Josh & DP that you say it’s his best film in terms of looks and professionalism when I thought it seemed like a rush job. I LOVE the film but it’s my least favorite Kevin Smith…even behind “Jersey Girl” which I feel is a way, way too harshly judged spin on the screwball romantic comedy.
I also agree that there’s several GREAT performances here including Rogen, Banks (she’s ALWAYS good) and Long. But Craig Robinson is also outstanding. His walking of the line between devoted hubby and get-me-the-fuck-out-of-this-marriage guy was inspired.
And angus-
I think you’re thinking too much on the surface. Alot of great directors (especially writer/directors) work through the same issues the same ways over and over again. Just because Smith’s overtly geek/fanboy influences register more at a face value (and lets admit it, seem childish), doesn’t make them less important. Well, at least to Smith and those who relate to him like me.
He’s supposedly doing a very hard “R” horror film next (“Red State”) so we shall see. But I’m glad people are coming back to “Zack and Miri” on DVD because I think it’s the funniest movie of 2008. Maybe even 2007 but I can’t think that far back this early.
Actually, he is not sure what he is doing next. I attended a Q&A session in Toronto a couple of weeks ago, and he said he isn’t quite sure what’s up with Red State, he probably needs financing for it since Harvey Weinstein isn’t signing up for this one.
He did mention how disappointed he was with Zach and Miri in terms of how it did in the box office.
Perhaps I’ll check it out now.
After Clerks II and Jersey Girl, I was done. Particularly Clerks II, still might be one of the least enjoyable movie experiences of my life. I found Smith to be affable, but very smug and full of himself. Both times he was on Jon Favreau’s “Dinner for Five” I was this close to chucking the TV set. But, I like DP’s sentiment of talent finding it’s groove. Always a good thing.
All that after one movie, Dave? Wow.
The gag Josh Massey mentioned was my favorite bit in the whole movie.
That said, it didn’t really strike me as significantly different from Clerks II or anything else he’s doing in the last 10 years.
That fecal gag makes me LOL every time. I’m easy to please in terms of fart/poop jokes and balls kicking.
“Red State” worries me simply because all Smith ever says is how hardcore and edgy it is. How nobody wants to finance it because it’s just sooo out there. The ONE thing that drives me insane about Smith is how he believes his own hype way, way too much and just jumps right in line with whatever he hears about his projects and trumpets that word from on high.
Like how he parrots that the reason everyone hated “Jersey Girl” was because of Bennifer. Like how “Clerks 2” got a 10 minute standing O at Cannes and that meant big things. Now, how “Red State” is just not going to get funded because it’s just soooooo freaky and out there. I mean, come on.
As much as I love the guy, I simply cannot fathom the “twisted” mind of Kevin Smith is more twisted than Eli Roth or Gaspar Noe.
I’m with anghus … I walked out of “Zack and Miri” because I paid for something rated R and got NC-17 instead.
ELIZABETH BANKS IS CHARMING.
Chucky went into a movie with “prono” on the title and got offended by the content? Funny!
I’d agree with Don about Red State. I don’t think Kevin has the chops to make a truly edgy horror movie. I’d imagine it’s like Dogma, where it has controversial topics if you’re predisposed to be affected by them…but to the average viewer, was Dogma shocking at all? It was like a tv movie and was horribly shot.
I can’t get over how odd it looks to have someone scream ‘CHARMING’ at us all. Like a dowager yelling “WOULD YOU CARE FOR A CUP OF TEA” at the top of her withered lungs.
I find it far less stress on the eyeballs tho.
Jeffy Mac proves the POSSIMPBLE!
“Zack and Miri” is the single worst film Smith ever wrote/directed.
He’s become as redundant in the post-Apatow era as John Waters was after “There’s Something About Mary” brought Waters’ shock-at-all-costs schtick into the mainstream and found a larger audience than all of the Baltimore auteur’s previous films combined.
Sad, but true.
John Waters is funny. He has remained funny in a world, where the Farrelly’s have become increasingly unfunny. SO I have to disagree with you on this point, and about Zach and Miri. Which is neither here nor there, but it’s not horrible or horribly directed. Smith is competent. If he were not so hung up on directing his own work. He would go to TV, learn how to hussle and move on a TV set, and possibly learn as a director.
Until he gets over himself in a professional way. He will never ever get past this point in his career.
No no, John Waters has always been about more than mere ‘shock’. He deserves way more credit than that. And A Dirty Shame was as entertaining and as vital as just about any movie from the last several years.
On this we agree, jeff.
I used to worship John Waters.
“Pink Flamingos,” “Female Trouble,” “Desperate Living,” “Polyester,” “Hairspray,” even “Cry Baby.”
They were outrageously funny, genuinely subversive-anarchic works that crawled out from the underground and took no prisoners. But Waters’ recent work has felt rudderless, unfocused, artistically/socially irrelevant (“Serial Mom,” “Cecil B. Demented,” “Pecker,” “A Dirty Shame,” too–sorry Jeff). Once the “culture” as a whole began playing Waters’ game, he seemed to run out of both gas and ideas.
With “Zack and Miri,” Smith reached the same artistic/creative dead end. No one would deny that Judd Apatow has essentially mainstreamed the type of potty-mouthed, pop-culture-referencing schtick that’s been Smith’s bread-and-butter since “Clerks 1” and–in some ways (slicker production values; more polished acting)–actually done it “better.” I say that with a tinge of sadness because I’ve championed my share of Smith movies over the years (“Chasing Amy” and “Dogma” still look like masterpieces to me, and I even love “Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back” as an auteurist goof). Instead of merely chasing Apatow’s tail (good luck with that, Kev), I think Smith really needs to try something new–a genre piece might not be such a bad idea– and see if it sticks. Except for the Pittsburgh Steelers joke and Craig Robinson’s genuinely funny performance, “Zack and Miri”
felt as flat, stale/antiquated and genuinely, depressingly irrelevant as much of Waters’ latter work.
Movieman, I wouldn’t disagree with you on Serial Mom, Cecil B. Demented, or Pecker. But I think the Bush years reinvigorated Waters to actually go for the gusto in ADS and it resulted in his most bracing, formally interesting, funny movie since at least Cry-Baby.
awesome, movieman
i must confess about kevin smith, i’m neither here nor there about most of his flicks with the exception of ‘chasing amy’, ‘mallrats’ and ‘dogma’, which i really like, but i have a thing for him as a actor, in ‘catch and release’ in particular – not a wild crush per se, i just want to hang out with sam, i want him to be my friend and do stuff with him, how weird and a little pathetic is that?
Not “weird” or “pathetic” at all, Leah. I’ve always enjoyed listening to Smith talk movies and a whole variety of other pop culture-ish things: he’s a blast. And since we’re in a confessional mode, I share your weakness for “Catch and Release” (and Smith’s appealing performance).
I appreciate where you’re coming from re: “Shame,” Jeff: it’s certainly Waters’ most interesting, and probably enjoyable, film since “Cry Baby.” But I can’t really share your enthusiam.
In fact, I”ve sometimes wondered over the past decade and a half whether Waters’ heart is even in it (i.e., making movies) anymore. Even the NC-17 “Shame” seemed mild, passe and denatured to me next to his balls-to-the-walls (sometimes literally) ’70s masterpieces.
I sure hope that he’s getting regular “Hairspray the Musical” residual checks.
‘I share your weakness for “Catch and Release” (and Smith’s appealing performance).’
good lord, there’s two of us!