April 25, 2024
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It shows how out of it I was in trying to be in it, acknowledging that I was out of it to myself, and then thinking, “Okay, how do I stop being out of it? Well, I get some legitimate illogical narrative ideas” â some novel, you know?
So I decided on three writers that I might be able to option their material and get some producer, or myself as producer, and then get some writer to do a screenplay on it, and maybe make a movie.
And so the three projects were “Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep,” “Naked Lunch” and a collection of Bukowski. Which, in 1975, forget it â I mean, that was nuts. Hollywood would not touch any of that, but I was looking for something commercial, and I thought that all of these things were coming.
There would be no Blade Runner if there was no Ray Bradbury. I couldn’t find Philip K. Dick. His agent didn’t even know where he was. And so I gave up.
I was walking down the street and I ran into Bradbury â he directed a play that I was going to do as an actor, so we know each other, but he yelled “hi” â and I’d forgot who he was.
So at my girlfriend Barbara Hershey’s urging â I was with her at that moment â she said, “Talk to him! That guy really wants to talk to you,” and I said “No, fuck him,” and keep walking.
But then I did, and then I realized who it was, and I thought, “Wait, he’s in that realm, maybe he knows Philip K. Dick.” I said, “You know a guy namedâ” “Yeah, sure â you want his phone number?”
My friend paid my rent for a year while I wrote, because it turned out we couldn’t get a writer. My friends kept on me about, well, if you can’t get a writer, then you write.”
~ Hampton Fancher
“That was the most disappointing thing to me in how this thing was played. Is that Iâm on the phone with you now, after all thatâs been said, and the fundamental distinction between what James is dealing with in these other cases is not actually brought to the fore. The fundamental difference is that James Franco didnât seek to use his position to have sex with anyone. Thereâs not a case of that. He wasnât using his position or status to try to solicit a sexual favor from anyone. If he had â if that were what the accusation involved â the show would not have gone on. We would have folded up shop and we would have not completed the show. Because then it would have been the same as Harvey Weinstein, or Les Moonves, or any of these cases that are fundamental to this new paradigm. Did you not notice that? Why did you not notice that? Is that not something notable to say, journalistically? Because nobody could find the voice to say it. Iâm not just being rhetorical. Why is it that you and the other critics, none of you could find the voice to say, âYou know, itâs not this, itâs thatâ? Because â let me go on and speak further to this. If you go back to the L.A. Times piece, thatâs what it lacked. Thatâs what they were not able to deliver. The one example in the five that involved an issue of a sexual act was between James and a woman he was dating, who he was not working with. There was no professional dynamic in any capacity.
~ David Simon
From BOM:
“On Saturday, its 37th day, Avatar surpassed The Dark Knight’s $533.3 million total to become the second highest-grossing movie of all time, though, in terms of attendance, it likely hasn’t yet cracked the Top 50.”
A bit of perspective no amount of MATHS can change.
A bit of hack reporting that xenophobically ignores the entire rest of the world.
You get the math you deserve, windmill boy.
Who visits Box Office Mojo for “likely” recaps?
“A bit of hack reporting that xenophobically ignores the entire rest of the world.”
So anyone who talks about Avatar in terms of domestic BO is now a racist? Is that what you are implying?
Sheesh, where were you all those years Van Damme, Stallone and Seagal were racking up the bucks overseas? Oh, right, then it was just dumb action movies that did well overseas and those numbers were not worth looking at.
Van Damme rules.
Poland, don’t you think it’s about time you stopped playing an idiot?
It’s always been your style to try put things in the wrong context but lately you’ve really been pushing it.
This quote never pretended to relate to anything other than domestic gross. And if you’d read the column where this quote came from you’d known that it is anything BUT xenophobic. Pro-hint: look at the headline.
Also, if you’d actually read my own comments on Avatar you’d have known on that I never ever downplayed it’s performance overseas or any other accomplishments. You are talking to the wrong guy.
I disagree with your take on the uselessness of attendance information and ticket adjusting. I think most people would too. This is why I posted this. As much as you are trying (poorly) to downplay it what I posted has a meaning. It’s not the most telling thing one can derive but it’s an insightful bit of information. Instead of seeing that and possibly even addressing the point you (again) go for the insults.
And Despite saying that “there is nothing wrong with perspective” you tried everything to ridicule EVERY method of doing so and yet never gave up on using the word “ever”. Do you really think that you know something nobody else does?
I say this as someone who actually does find most of your columns meaningful. I’m genuinly suprised by your tone and stubborness.
The Math I got came mostly from you and every single time I asked for an explanation or clarification, I got nothing. I’d say we all deserve a bit more.
But keep tilting, Quixote.
Just a guess, Nicol, but I don’t think David was on the Internet then.
“So anyone who talks about Avatar in terms of domestic BO is now a racist? Is that what you are implying?”
No, the person quoted by Gonzo said “all time” without qualifying that they only meant all-time DOMESTIC. Saying “all time” when you only mean in the US is overly nationalist at best, xenophobic at worst.
LYT,
Why? Dave quotes Avatar figures all the time that are international without stipulating that they are?
And if you really want to parse “all time” to mean the planet….then we – must – also qualify this with the benefits Avatar has with regards to release patterns, types of films that do well overseas (no comedies or dramas) and the benefit of the American corporate hype machince.
You wanna play the “nationalist”, “xenophobic” card…fine, lets also list some foreign films (sorry, does that term offend you) and talk about what limits they have when compared to Cameron and Fox’s deep pockets.
And why are we all of a sudden so concerned with international over domestic in the case of Avatar? Playing the Dave wasn’t writing then card is too clever by half and obfuscates the truth.
Seems to me, just playing the Avatar is number one forever and ever AMEN card is the true xenophobic act.
Is it safe to say McDonalds is the number one restaurant forever and ever amen in the world or should we talk a bit about globalization and how American corporations have benefits others don’t to skew the field. If you want to talk globalization as a negative you can’t just do it when it comes to McDonald’s, Coke and Wal-Mart. You have to be intellectually honest. Avatar is a product made by a corporation.
If you Avatar heads want to have this discussion…fine…let’s have it.
Nevertheless, while I am frustrated by how blinded you are to putting this film in context, I am impressed that the standard on Avatar is being questioned by the mainstream. Even the new EW puts its gross into context. You Avatar fantatics do not come off as ahead of the curve…actually very far behind it.
Gonzo, you are pathetic enough to be IO.
I’m not taking a show of hands. Anyone who sees box office as “domestic only” is an idiot or an ignoramus. Your pick.
Luke explained your odd choice to misunderstand the word “xenophobic,” Nicol. Fear, almost always based on ignorance.
I wasn’t on the web back then, but I did work with international sales agents when making crap movies and I know how much a lot of people who couldn’t get a job at a US studio were worth overseas… and still are. But what the hell is your point? You are making my point, you whack. It all counts. Pretending it doesn’t, whether to win an argument or to mislead the public, is shite.
In the case of Mojo, they have so little actual information about international box office that they continue to spout these inherently incorrect platitudes based on domestic box office alone.
The majority income of 80%+ of studio movies is a minor issue, but guessing at ticket sales is REALLY IMPORTANT. Moronic.
And Gonzo, you don’t even understand Don Quixote. He not only titled at windmills with honor, but he was chasing something that was not there. What could you possible claim I am chasing that isn’t there? You, on the other hand, are clinging to some wet dream of putting Jim Cameron in his place. How small do your genitals have to be to be so desperate to assert some sort of power?
“I disagree with your take on the uselessness of attendance information and ticket adjusting. I think most people would too.”
Well, then you all would be fools. Because attendance information is MADE UP. It is an estimate. And there is no reason to assume it is within 10% of accurate, which in this case is $180 million and over 10 million people in your ticket counting wet dreams.
And if you think a show of hands is reflective of accurcy or intelligence, go vote for Bush again.
You guys must be training with Fox News because this bullshit about arguing the facts as though they were up for discussion is exactly the level of intentional, malicious propaganda that thrives over there.
The sad part is that I keep discussing it as though you might choose to be reasonable. That makes me the idiot. Lesson learned… again.. I hope.
Dave,
You are so flailing on this and you know it. Fox news…Bush….sheesh.
You are trying to turn this into a political discussion because you know that the tide is turning. Are Box Office Mojo and Entertainment Weekly right wing? You are writing from a place of emotion, not logic which is why so many of your arguments are so easy to pick apart. Your essay two weeks ago on why adjustment for inflation didn’t matter and seats sold seemed to convince many of the opposite. Well done, mother hen.
People are sniffing at the bought and paid for “records” of Avatar and starting to report it as such. Is attendance accurate…perhaps not…but do you really think the weekend tally’s the studio reports to you on Sunday morning before the weekend is even over are?
You have confused context with publicity spin on the part of Fox.
And no one…not even me is saying Avatar isn’t a huge hit. It is. But it is not what you want it to be and that is why so many of us from all across the spectrum are putting it in context for you and will continue to.
When you play the xenophobic (ie racist card) on terms of defending Avatar, you know you are lilting in the lurch.
Nicol… why do you choose to go insane only now.
If this is such an issue, it’s been an issue for decades… or last year.
Where was this lunacy when it was Transformers 2 or The Dark Knight or Harry Potter or whatever.
I know you only have your membership in the Flat Earth Society paid up for the next 2 years because the world is going to end in 2012, but is this all because you think Avatar is a left-wing screed or something? Its amazing how crabby some people get when something as simple as a box office gross actually occurs.
“People are sniffing at the bought and paid for “records” of Avatar and starting to report it as such” = functionally insane.
discussion over.
Anyhow, it’s now official. Avatar has passed Titanic as the #1 ww grosser in history. $1.842 B…and counting…
Jesus. The size of another’s genitalia? Professionalism right out the window…
Wow
I still just fail to see where people like Nicol are coming from. Is anyone claiming that Fox are fudging the numbers and claiming Avatar is making more than it actually has? No. Are they somehow claiming the 3D extra on ticket prices doesn’t exist? No. So what’s the deal? The movie has made all the money it has, why must it then break attendance records and inflation records and records based on the number of people with the name “Jenny” going to see it? It’s made the money and that’s all that matters.
David,
Read this. I am quite frankly stunned by what you just wrote. You show such amazing self-righteous ignorance of what I am actually trying to say, I really begin to worry for you. You are making shit up, putting it in my (and other’s mouth) and then walk away dreaming you were some sort of a knight on a crusade.
I dare you to actually read this and reply as a reasonable human being. Seriously David, absolutely nothing of what you wrote pertains to me nor in the least bit reflects what I am trying to say or “achieve”.
“I’m not taking a show of hands. Anyone who sees box office as “domestic only” is an idiot or an ignoramus. Your pick.”
Who said anything about viewing Box office as DOMESTIC ONLY? Why are you being a liar? Just because I posted a comment that pertained to domestic box office, doesn’t mean I limit myself to just that or am that closeminded. Do you honestly even fucking believe what you were saying?
I posted it, not because I am a hater. Not because I don’t understand that estimates are just estimates (something I’ve been saying for a year on here). Not because I belive it to be exact science. Not because I am whatever the stupid thing you want to accuse me of. I think that even as fans of Avatar, we both can look at it, and derive some insight. That is all.
And it’s not like you don’t think there’s any market in talking about the domestic market on its own terms even if it’s just a small part of the overall picture? Over half of your BO columns do just that. You don’t see me accusing you as viewing it all “as domestic only” based on a paragraph or column taking out of context.
See, you are not really trying to have a conversation here. You are doing what many of your worst trolls are doing – i.e. you are trying to “catch me” to try to make me be quiet. You don’t really care if the things you accuse me of make any sense. And they don’t
I am trying to take the most calm tone with you but you are behaving like a stupid fangirl who takes everything she finds to be remotely negative about the film she loves and goes berserk. As a result I have to speak to you like you were a child so as to make sure you don’t get the wrong idea, yet again. You take one quote, MISINTERPRET IT, put your own spin on it and then abandon the whole thing. But in reality, you just want everyone to think exactly the way you do.
When you were rightfully called on the whole “Xenophobic” thing. What do you do? You defend it by being even more ridiculous. You were the one who needlessly turned it into a political thing which wasn’t even remotely in any one’s mind. Grow a pair yourself and for once, be a man, and admit you overreacted. People could see how stupid that was – and no one would think less of you.
Funny things is, apart from your total dismisall of ticket estimates (again, it comes down to it being a TOTAL dismisal – a person with any sort of experience handling data could still utilize the information in some way – I have enough background for it. David, you must have been exposed to some sort of inference at some point, why can’t we take the data is flawed but… approach here?) we don’t even disagree that much. I really like Avatar (maybe not as obessively as you do) and am happy for it’s success. And nothing I ever said and I’ve said a lot would lead one to think otherwise.
“You, on the other hand, are clinging to some wet dream of putting Jim Cameron in his place.”
I’ve been giving you hint after hint about the fact that you were talking to the wrong guy. Go back and re-read the pages of stuff I wrote defending the movie and celebrating it. I am probably the single strongest defender of it on here. I don’t have absolutely any problem with Cameron. I think he earned his success. How’s that?
I was neither trying to attack Avatar, nor you for that matter. After everything you wrote on the subject, I thought it could open an interesting debate on a particular market most of us understand best. And as much as you tried to hurl insults it came from a legitimate source, written by a guy with bo credentials (even such a thing even exists). Not a xenophobe, not a hater. Even if you do disagree with accuracy of his (and other’s data), if you read it you can see that he’s not really a loon either:
http://boxofficemojo.com/news/?id=2654&p=.htm
Do you understand why I said you were Don Quixote (sans the honor, sorry) now? And why people find that your targets in this situation are off the mark? And if not, will you understand that even with a big hard-on for Avatar your dick is still tiny?
That off my chest, can we move on without further insults?
Just have a little patience, man. Not everything that looks like it’s negative or is meant to provoke you really is that.
Hope to see a more level headed response, DP.
AVATAR IS A BIG MONEY LOSER BECAUSE THERE ARE NOT ENOUGH NAVI ACTION FIGURES, I ANECDOTALLY KNOW SOMEONE WHO DIDN’T LIKE IT, THE 3D BUMP IS 300%, AND A MULTIPLEX IN SOUTH JERSEY ISN’T CARRYING IT ANYMORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HA HA HA HA HA JIM CAMERON BETTER LUCK NEXT TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
— GonzIO D in Jersey
Indeed. Anecdotal evidence is practically no evidence at all these days.
Question: When the Friday and Sunday estimates are posted on this blog, are they worldwide totals? No? Are they labeled as such? NO?!? Xenophobe!!!
See how ridiculous this charge is? If this debate isn’t an example of someone taking something personally, I don’t know what is.
mysteryperfecta, funny thing is, on some level I can symphatize with DP. And it’s not often one sees him truly enter a fan mode like that. Taking things personally can be cool. It can make for good conversations. There is some geniuinly strong hatred being thrown at Avatar on here. There are good reasons for trying to sort through it and defend the film, especially if it’s a film someone likes. I just wish he wasn’t so blinded as to treat every discerning opinion or even critisism as an insult.
Less Wellsian and IOIOIOistic attitude, please.
Here’s another proof of subjectivity, from another entry:
“The ticket counters and adjusted grossers can all claim otherwise, but besides the core problem that these estimates are in danger of being seriously inaccurate (as because they are so random, they could also be dead-on now and again, wholly by luck), this stuff only ever comes out when the user wishes to use it against a movie… never for a movie.”
The problem is that you constantly choose to view this as an attack on on Avatar. It is not, at least not in my case. Not everything is a rivalry and not everything is written out of hatred.
The far more important question is, regardless of motivation, do these arguments hold any water. Even after reading your arguments, I still say that they do. (And don’t use this out of context to occuse me of being what I am not)
As far I view these things, it is an attempt to provide some perspective that offers numbers, the best way we know how. These are not some absolutele criterions. And my personal argument and I’ve said this before was that even as inaccurate as some figures are, the relative placements of movies appear pretty accurate for the most part. They are NEVER DEAD-ON. (And I’ve never been sensationalistic). All is taken with a grain of salt.
The way you use phrases like “adjusted grossers” are so pathetically contemptious and so clearly designed to anger it’s really sad. It’s all very very precalculated. And yet, you object to even a hint of antagonism.
Granted, there are those who seem to swear by these numbers. There are always people like that. Whether they actually believe what they are saying or, as you s just try to “go against” a film is debatable.
It is, however, not suprising that this should occur now and with a movie that is as succesful as Avatar is. It is not always desiarable but it seems almost inevitable that these types would appear. Nor is it suprising that the conversations on bo adjustments should come up now with such frequency.
I hold that your own language and use of words like “biggest ever” has not always been justified either (it’s the context that made it bad). Not the biggest sin ever but you could have used a more accurate language IF you really cared for those things. And if movies cannot be compared to others because the tools are flawed than how can you ever claim something like that (hence my whole: “do you know somethign we don’t question”).
In any case, relax. This “user” does not wish to be against you (if you allow him) nor the movie.
As someone DP once hired to review Van Damme/Seagal movies, I’m offended at the suggestion that he wasn’t online when Van Damme/Seagal were making bank overseas đ
Come on Gonzo, you have a history of posting like that…you’ll put up that Avatar hasn’t yet cracked the Top 50 in attendance, then when DP calls you on it, you then say you werentt only talking about domestic…even though that’s what that quote was about, so yes you were. No one here are mind readers, and if you want to start a debate that’s fine, but starting a debate about stuff you don’t even believe is weird.
But to get on DP’s butt a little, I think and will always think JUST going by dollars is crap. Because you could raise ticket prices to three hundred million a ticket and only one guy goes to movies and he sees The Dark Knight once, and it’s a huge hit! Six HUNDRED MILLION!!! So we can crow about box office being sturdier than ever. And then the guys dies, what then?
So there are lots of aspects to look at, and box office is one of them and sure that’s all the studios care about…until they raise the prices too high and people just stop going.
One guy pays $300 mil for a ticket
Pro…
1. Sees it a couple of times and breaks all box office records
2. Movie doesn’t need any corporate/marketing machinery to succeed
Con…
1. Doesn’t crack top 50 attendance
Whatever who the fuck cares… everyone go out and buy the new Beach House album… let’s make some numbers count
Perm, you’ve raised that before – the one ticket worth $600mil or whatever – but it doesn’t hold any weight as a legitimate argument because it’s an absurd hypothesis. But, even if you’re wanting to go down that path then, yes, if someone did pay $600mil for one ticket then good on that movie for somehow getting someone to pay that money!
Which is exactly where I’ve been coming from. Avatar is getting people to pay the premium price so why shouldn’t it have the satisfaction of being called the highest grossing film of all time?
I think it holds weight because we know that attendance is dropping. The only reason movies are making the money they do and breaking records eevry year is because of the inflation of tickets over and above regular inflation. I think this is what’s killing indies…why pay $12 to see some people talking in a room? I think if you see numbers trending down somewhere, you need to start thinking about it…even though dollars are high, I’d be worried about numbers dropping. And with entertainment options widening, eventually they could hit the breaking point and attendence is going to drop in a major way and all the inflation in the world isn’t going to help. Which is why Hollywood is so desperate to suckle at 3D’s supple teat.