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David Poland

By David Poland poland@moviecitynews.com

Friday Estimates by Freddy

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Not much to say. Freddy did about what a horror remake should… not more… not less.
And Furry Vengence, which should recover to gross around $8m, will be another film in line with Summit’s non-Twilight history. They just can’t get it to roll. As I have written before, it’s really hard to be a new company with one massive brand. You make money on that franchise, but it often becomes the handful of gold like in an old cartoon… you can’t get your hand out of the trap unless you let go of the gold. Toughie.

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94 Responses to “Friday Estimates by Freddy”

  1. Don Murphy says:

    So Kick Ass barely covers P and A. Shame
    Date Night hangs in again. Go ShawN!
    Dragon is a phenom!
    And Brendan Fraser should never be allowed near a movie screen again. Biggest bomb since fucking Dudley Do Right. No one likes this cat- I call it Desperation Casting.

  2. marychan says:

    Surprise to see that “Oceans” drops that big.
    “Please Give” won’t do as well as “Friends with Money”; still, this film will make good profit for Sony Pictures Classics (which finances this film’s $3 million budget)
    “Harry Brown” opens surprisely well; it will be another successful co-release for Samuel Goldwyn Films and Sony Pictures Worldwide Acquisitions Group (which also enjoyed modest successes with “The Boondock Saints II: All Saints Day” and “Chloe” in recent months).
    “The Human Centipede” also opens well, but I guess this film will do much better on VOD.
    BTW, “The Joneses” has grossed more than $1 million – a better-than-expected result for me. Fox will be happy (since Fox has this film’s domestic ancillary rights)

  3. movielocke says:

    the biggest problem for Furry Vengeance is the title. Not that I’ve seen the movie, it sounds stupid. But with that title I don’t even need to see a trailer.

  4. indiemarketer says:

    The second biggest problem for Furry Vengeance is that it had no vampires nor werewolves, and Summit was at a loss as to what to do with it. Edward Pattison good. Brendan Fraser bad. Sad that we will not get a Furry Vengeance Saga…speaking of furry vengeance, how’s Catherine Hardwicke?

  5. Chucky in Jersey says:

    Can’t answer that, but I can say “Death at a Funeral” is damn good. Mix in star power with good pacing and the 90 minutes goes rather quickly.
    @DonM: “Kick-Ass” will turn a profit once it hits video.
    @marychan: SPC farked up again — it forgot that many theaters that would play “Please Give” are opening “Babies” next week.

  6. Cris says:

    Speaking of furry things, audience repellent titles, and Summit’s failure to market anything that’s not Twilight, I would be immensely worried if I were Mel Gibson starring in The Beaver.

  7. Whois67 says:

    A friend of mine said she thought Kick-Ass looked like a kid’s movie. I did too until realized it was an R. Not the best tv ads for it.
    Turned out to be my favourite movie of 2010. Bring on the bluray!

  8. Nicol D says:

    “So Kick Ass barely covers P and A. Shame”
    Agreed. However, the one silver lining is that when I watched Kick Ass it was one of the first films I have seen in years that seems to be destined for a genuine cult following. Hit Girl, is iconic and will not be forgotten. I think in many ways, the marketing did not do the film any favours in defining an audience.
    I would not be surprised if posters of Hit Girl are adorning college campuses in 10 years.
    Great and very under-appreciated film.

  9. Jeffrey Boam's Doctor says:

    Cult movie. The most over used and misunderstood term used in film discussion, especially by those who simply teach but don’t live through cults.
    KICK ASS can never be a cult film. It certainly isn’t an instant one as Nicol referred to it previously (adjusted to destined above). The film opened wide, was hugely publicized and had major star in it but the nail in his theory, is that the film opened to some business. So four strikes against it ever being a true cult item.
    Even if its a huge hit on DVD it will never achieve cultdom. Contemporary cult examples are TROLL2 and on the other end of the scale, titles like BOONDOCK SAINTS & OFFICE SPACE.
    I hate it when people throw the term around without any comprehension. Especially ones who teach film? WTF?

  10. Nicol D says:

    Jeffrey,
    You are a dumb ass. Really.
    First off, I never said it was a cult film. I said it seemed destined to be one.
    Also, whether a film opens wide to some business has – nothing – to do with whether or not a film is cult or not. Wide release, small release, star, no star has nothing to do with it. It has to do with the aftermath of how it is remembered and who carries the torch.
    True cult films are films that are feverishly embraced by a small group of people whose fervour makes people consider it. Hence the term “cult”. Blade Runner is the perfect example. Opened in a wide release. Huge star. Big flop. Gets a fervered following on VHS and becomes a true cult film.
    Rocky Horror Picture Show is cult. So is Clockwork Orange, and yet that was a success in release.
    Thing is, your implied definition of a cult film, is what; indie?, no budget? flop? Be more specific.
    Troll 2 is not a cult film. It is forgotten film that nobody in significant number cares about. Period. Bad call on your part.
    Boondock Saints is a cult film. That’s why it got a sequel.
    Office Space borders. It was a bomb that found an audience on video but one could argue that it has become so popular as to become mainstream and not cult at all. But it also had Jennifer Aniston at the peak of Friends popularity and a wide release with 20th Century Fox.
    “…it will never achieve cultdom.”
    Did you look into your crystal ball and see the future? Really, this statement alone reveals how little you know about the subject.
    If you really want to have a chance at winning this, give an actual defintion of a cult film to work with as opposed to three disparate and conflicting examples.

  11. BurmaShave says:

    Nicol, TROLL 2 is pretty much the definition of a cult movie. It’s playing to packed houses on college campuses now. It’s ‘legend’ is growing exponentially because of the internets. “Oh my goddddddd”. There was just a documentary on the whole thing… Do you have your ear to the ground at all?
    Other than that, agreed.

  12. Jeffrey Boam's Doctor says:

    Nicol I was playing Eraserhead to audiences on first release. Don’t talk to me about “cult”. You also stated in other posts that Kick-Ass “was” a cult film.
    Don’t try and weasal out now. You’re an maroon out of his depth. This is my turf and I will smite you to fucking kingdom kum.
    Yes Blade Runner is cult. That release was the antithesis of Kick-Ass in all ways.
    And I can predict the future. I predict Kick-Ass will be more more cult than any other overrated geek fest like Snakes on A Plane. Which I guess you would call cult.
    The way you talk about these titles shows me that you’ve read a couple of books like Midnight Movies and feel that you can lecture me like one of your retarded students. I’m teaching you, so learn up good and shut the fuck up.
    Like I said. You have no clue. Troll 2 is the DEFINITION of cult you ignoramus. I have no interest in anything else you have to say on this matter.
    Game, set, match.
    You lose.

  13. Jeffrey Boam's Doctor says:

    I’ll withdraw my hastily thrown in strike about “star”. Has nothing to do with it obviously. I let my rising anger against Nicol’s cluelessness steer me from the truth.
    I love how you mention BOONDOCK got a sequel because it was a cult film. Wrong again. There are many cult films that will never have sequels. What an idiotic thing to say.
    Another recent cult in mid transformation is the one for REPO. You wouldn’t know that as your nose is in textbooks written by ghosts.
    Office Space was a success of Anniston? Again, you’re an idiot. That film found its cult on homevideo through word of mouth. Nothing to do with Anniston. Again.. IDIOT.
    You lose.
    Again.

  14. Joe Leydon says:

    Actually, JBD, you’re wrong. Office Space became a cult film entirely because of me. And Mike Judge agrees. Indeed, according to him, I am the Nostradmus of film critics.

  15. christian says:

    “The film opened wide, was hugely publicized and had major star in it but the nail in his theory, is that the film opened to some business. So four strikes against it ever being a true cult item.”
    Apparently Danny Peary really fucked up when he wrote three volumes of his popular and influential CULT MOVIES and included A CLOCKWORK ORANGE; CASABLANCA; GODZILLA; WHERE’S POPPA; EASY RIDER; ENTER THE DRAGON; 2001; HALLOWEEN; etc. etc.
    So who to trust on the definition of cult film? JBD or Danny Peary? For a change, Nicol D is right and not just right-wing!

  16. Jeffrey Boam's Doctor says:

    Christian. Next you’ll be singing the praises of the Medveds.
    Nicol was wrong on all these points.
    1. Troll 2 not a cult item.
    2. He called Kick-Ass a cult film after 2 days of release.
    3. He said Boondock Saints had a sequel because it was a cult film. Which means Office Space 2 is right around the corner.
    4. On one hand he says popularity means it cannot be cult ie Office Space.. but then cites Clockwork Orange and messes his argument completely/
    5. He says Jennifer Anniston one of the reasons behind OS cult.
    All this comes back to me predicting Kick-Ass can never be a cult. And I’ll tell you why and Danny Peary would agree with me.
    It was engineered, marketed and delivered to us as a cult item on arrival. That alone allows me to predict its future.

  17. LexG says:

    Not to distract from the Nicol/JBD clash of the titans, but…
    Despite its unspectacular “eh-good-enough-ness,” Nightmare 2010’s ONE-TWO PUNCH of SMOKING HOT CHICKS had me in my glory, especially since they parade around in LITTLE OUTFITS and BARE FEET for almost the entire runtime.
    I was all into KATIE CASSIDY for the first 30m, especially her BOOTY SHORTS, and was like “whoa she’s hotter than Nancy”… but I was WRONG. One ROONEY MARA takes over the movie, it is 65 minutes of solid boner. I already liked KATE MARA but ROONEY POWER, there should be BOWING like HANDS ACROSS AMERICA, as Mischa Emily Blunt Mara made the fastest ascension onto THE LEXLIST in the history of time.
    Also: Did anyone who saw NOES (ie, NOBODY HERE BECAUSE NOBODY GOES TO MOVIES) get the JONAH HEX trailer?
    I’m gonna call off work and meditate for a MONTH in preparation for that. The Fox is BACK.

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  19. leahnz says:

    you could argue till the cows come home what constitutes a ‘cult movie’, but the term is used far too loosely and willy-nilly these days
    impostors, pretenders and faux cult should be pooh-poohed. true cult flicks are a rare breed and can probably be counted on fingers and toes (not to mention cult is regional; here, ‘bad taste’ is king cult, along with ‘mad max/II’, but i’m not sure if those flicks are real deal cult outside the region; ‘withnail & i’ is cult in the UK but not so much outside it, and so on in every country/culture)
    from the 90’s only ‘the big L’ stands out as true blue cult and not just a pretender — i can’t think of a single film from the naughts that has true cult status potential, but that can’t be right

  20. leahnz says:

    also cult here and but i doubt anywhere outside the shaky isles: once were warriors

  21. Foamy Squirrel says:

    Wasn’t Warriors the top grossing movie in NZ until Episode 1 came along? That’s almost like saying ET was a cult film…
    I can’t watch Withnail any more without having flashbacks to the godawful Doctor Who US reboot.

  22. Martin S says:

    Office Space found an audience due to cable. HBO and Comedy Central played it incessantly. IIRC, this was acknowledged in an NYT article for the anniversary by Judge and some Fox people. I know it was one of the biggest draws for CC for a year or two.
    Very hard for a studio theatrical to reach cult status today. P&A gives every film a deep saturation that used to only exist for summer releases and the turnaround time to secondary markets is now technically zero-day if you count internets bootleg. Compare that to Blade Runner, which dropped off the map after its original theatrical and didn’t see VHS or cable for a few years. That downtime no longer exists so WOM and marketing carry across platforms.
    Independents or foreign market has been the last terrain for cult films. Oldboy was the biggest in sometime.

  23. The Big Perm says:

    JBD, you’re pretty much wrong on all of this stuff. Nicol, horrible as it is to say, is pretty much correct. You are incorrect in thinking cult only means movies like Eraserhead or Troll 2 or Brain Damage or what have you.
    Take Office Space. Stars in it, and it bombs. Had a cult following that grew. NOT a cult movie anymore because if you can go to almost anyone in a certain age range and go “okkaaaayyyy,” and they know what you’re referencing, NOT a cult movie. Buckaroo Banzai is a cult movie that was supposed to be a big hit.
    And Boondock Saints ABSOLUTELY got a sequel because it’s a cult movie. Where you are wrong JBD, is that you’re saying that because of this logic every cult movie would be getting a sequel…not true.
    But let’s look at it…if Boondock Saints was a huge hit and grossed 100 million dollars, it would have gotten a sequel. If it did what it did and no one ever cared and it went to video and no one watched it, it would have not gotten a sequel. BUT, since it made zero money and no one heard of it, but then developed a rabid cult following, it got a sequel. There’s no arguing with that.

  24. Rob says:

    Oldboy is a good example, as are Audition, Donnie Darko, and Battle Royale. Every geek in his late 20s has seen those.

  25. a_loco says:

    LexG, Jonah Hex looks pretty awful. Would have much preferred it if they kept the insane Neveldine/Taylor on board.
    Their movies might not always be good, but they’re always entertaining.

  26. CleanSteve says:

    I would give LexG’s left nut for a Buckaroo Banzai movie. God, I love it so. It would probably be a complete failure but I would like to see it happen before I die. I saw a Hitchhiker’s Guide film, which was not very good…but never thought it would ever happen. Si I got that going for me.
    Peter Weller was an actor destined for Oscar glory someday. He’s teaching now, right?? Robocop and Buckaroo are formative films for me. And I remember him making a great villain in First Born.
    When I think of cult movies I think of films that have followings, conventions, fan clubs, multiple websites dedicated to the film. That’s my criteria, but overall I don’t give a fuck.
    And Lex, those chicks in the Elm St. flick may be hot, but Heather Langenkamp circa 1984 gave me many desperate teenage nights with my hand. Total babe.

  27. christian says:

    Weller was superb as William Burroughs in NAKED LUNCH.

  28. christian says:

    Also leah, I would consider RESERVOIR DOGS a 90’s cult film and even films such as SCHIZOPOLIS and THE IRON GIANT. It’s a wide weird berth, eh?
    And JBD, the snarky Medveds don’t hold a flame to Peary, who’s a genuine film fanatic and has great insight, even if I don’t believe all of his cult choices. I miss his unique writing.
    DAWN OF THE DEAD was a hit when it opened, but I saw it at midnight movie houses along with HEAVY METAL, SONG REMAINS THE SAME, WIZARDS, THE WALL ENTER THE DRAGON, and of course, ROCKY HORROR. All cult films in their own right.

  29. CleanSteve says:

    Hell yea!! Good call, Christian. And he was an episode of FRINGE recently according to IMDB.
    And I forgot he did a season of 24 a few years back.
    I also remember him in LEVIATHAN. Awful movie but I saw it twice in theater. One of the worst monsters I’ve ever seen, but Weller was good.
    And SHOOT THE MOON. Great film.
    Under appreciated actor. Hope he gets something big again. He’d be a good fit in a QT picture. He has, well, I’m gonna say it: cult cache.

  30. Jeffrey Boam's Doctor says:

    Perm you disagree with everything I say which means your biased and dumb. I can’t even work out what you’re saying about Boondock. It got a sequel because FISCALLY it made sense. Low cost, big base to work from, not JUST because there’s a cult around it. Fuck me is it that hard to work out? DP back me up here, these maroons are making me dizzy.
    And then you say Office Space is not a cult anymore because so many people have seen it. Yeah like religions. You dumb cunt. Size of the audience has NOTHING to do with cult. Its how the film was discovered and grew into its existence.
    Go away moron, you bore me. Come back when you get schooled.
    I miss Peary too Christian even if I now disagree on many things he said.
    Leah – REPO is a a borderline modern cult film. It bombed. Found a devoted core base who are now fanatics spreading the word. They are far and few between but they still happen.

  31. Jeffrey Boam's Doctor says:

    Fuck me. I apologize to both Nicol and Perm.
    I take this stuff way too seriously.
    Boam out.

  32. Joe Leydon says:

    Could you make the argument that there are no such things as cult movies anymore? I mean, think about it: With cable, homevideo, VOD, etc., you no longer have a situation where a movie will be released, bomb, and then only slowly get “discovered” through midnight screenings and HBO cabelcasts. That is, there’s never a point where a movie slips into obscurity and/or inaccessibility for long periods.
    Counter-argument: Would The Shawshank Redemption qualify as a cult movie?
    And BTW: Lots of people (including a few here) insisted that Speed Racer would become a cult movie. Has it?

  33. The Big Perm says:

    Ha ha, JBD is not only an asshole, but also a sensitive little pussy.
    JBD, what would you call that base around Boondock Saints? Could be…maybe…a cult? Because it sure ain’t mainstream.

  34. Jeffrey Boam's Doctor says:

    Boam in.
    Joe yes you could make a strong case tat the landscape has changed so dramatically that the term is now redundant.. and yet they do materialize once in a blue moon.
    Perm. I am a very sensitive individual you tiresome skunkcunt. I was the one who said Boondock was a cult movie in the fucking first place you mentally deficient baby raper.
    Can you read or is that not a prerequisite to cornhole your mum and skullfuck your sister?
    I… will.. talk… slowly.. from… now.. on.. to.. Perm.. cos the cunt has clothear and needs a solid roundhouse to help the chap understand how things work.
    You’re my bitch and I’m the asshole teacher.
    I school you about film.
    So wipe your grans rancid cum from your lips and take notes.

  35. Jeffrey Boam's Doctor says:

    I apologize to the women on the board for that last Perm rant. It was misogynistic. I should not have excluded the males from Perm’s clan in terms of sexual abuse.
    So Perm, substitute your grans cum for your grandpas.
    Sorry.
    Boam out.

  36. leahnz says:

    i think many movies are called ‘cult’ that simply are not, they are cult to movie geeks and that is not true cult.
    to cross over into true cult status, the film must take on a life of its own BEYOND MOVIE GEEKS into wider popular culture to some degree, and this is very rare. also, true cult film has to sustain itself in popular culture over time. usually cult movies are box office bombs initially, but not always. one could argue that the original ‘star wars’ (there is no movie called ‘a new hope’, that retconning nonsense is for the birds) is ultimate cult because it has rigorously and hilariously sustained a vibrant pop culture life through the ages following its initial release.
    (foamy, the comparison of ‘once WW’ to ET is not apt. ‘once ww’ isn’t even close to being the top grossing movie in nz, and while i think it’s still the second highest-grossing kiwi movie, that means little because attendance numbers for enzed films in our own country are (still) relatively small. ‘OWW’ is true cult because it has permeated enzed pop culture, having a life far beyond its (moderately successful) cinema release, still playing regularly in cinemas, on campuses, at festivals and revivals, and on dvd around the country, sustaining a pop culture following. say to a kiwi, ‘cook the man some eggs!!’ and they are likely to know jake the muss and beth and the sad story of the heke’s, and that person very doubtfully saw ‘OWW’ at the original theatrical release. a successful movie doesn’t equal sustained crossover appeal in popular culture, not at all. only a cult movie wears that badge of honour)

  37. Joe Straat says:

    And I thought some of my “video games are art” friends were hardcore…..

  38. Foamy Squirrel says:

    You’re right:
    1994 US Population – 260million
    1994 NZ Population – 3.6million
    Once Were Warriors NZ Box Office – NZ$6.6million
    Adjusted for population – NZ$480million
    1994 USD/NZD exchange rate USD$0.60
    Adjusted for currency – USS$290million
    A better comparison would be The Lion King, which in 1994 grossed US$312million domestic.

  39. leahnz says:

    foamy, OWW has only grossed 3.8 mil in nz. don’t know where your numbers are from, apart from the fact that you have completely ignored the gist of my comment

  40. The Big Perm says:

    JBD really does seem like an asshole teacher who all the students hate. He’s the know it all pompous dickhead.
    Maybe you said Boondock Saints was a cult film, but you also said this…
    “I love how you mention BOONDOCK got a sequel because it was a cult film. Wrong again. There are many cult films that will never have sequels. What an idiotic thing to say.”
    Boondock Saints got a sequel because it had a built in base, (the cult of Boondock). If there was no base, why would you make a sequel for the movie?
    What’s wrong JBD, finally realizing that you wasted your shitty life?

  41. Foamy Squirrel says:

    http://www.valmorgan.co.nz/nz/at-the-movies/box-office/box-office-history/
    I ignored it because you’re gist was basically scope of influence – that people recognize references. I’m not sure if that’s how I would define it. Everyone knows “I’m king of the world!”, but few people would define Titanic as cult – it’s virtually the definition of mainstream.

  42. Foamy Squirrel says:

    Perm – JBD wasn’t saying that it doesn’t make business sense, he was saying the logic doesn’t make sense.
    To break it down:
    Nicol said “Boondock Saints is a cult film. That’s why it got a sequel.”
    The logic there is “(Name) was a cult film. Therefore it got a sequel.”
    The problem is that if you swap in other names of cult films, the sentence does not always remain true. Therefore the logic is flawed.

  43. Foamy Squirrel says:

    Triplepost cos I’m an idiot:
    Leah – I wrote the “I ignored it…” part badly. I just wanted to clarify that, according to all evidence, Once Were Warriors was not just successful but by NZ standards an all-time smash, and therefore not “cult” in my book. You’ve already established that this is not how you define “cult”. You had already addressed that there is no clear definition of “cult movie”, so bringing it up again is kinda pointless.
    Perm – Probably missing on the end is “Cult is insufficient to gain a sequel – other factors in addition to having a built in base are also necessary”.
    Right, now I’m going to (finally) get some sleep…

  44. Jeffrey Boam's Doctor says:

    Thanks Foamy though I doubt it’ll filter through the fettered mash of earwax and dried sperm in Perm’s ears.

  45. leahnz says:

    i’m not sure about that val morgan fig, way higher than on the list i found (and stupidly didn’t save, i’ll try to find it again when i’m not in such a hurry) but i think the figures were from 2005. if it’s still making money 15 years later, that only proves the cult following of OWW
    and foamy, you’re cherry picking your facts to suit your argument, using exchange rates and figure comparisons (that ignore ticket prices, repeat viewings, etc) and making film comparisons that are just a ridiculous stretch. OWW is NOT some huge mainstream titanic-like hit/phenom here, you are just wrong. just because you’ve lived here doesn’t make you an expert on kiwi culture, sorry. i think i have my finger on the pulse of what is a cult flick and what is a not in my own home and in my own industry better than you. there is a strong, sustained and ongoing cult following of OWW that has created a crossover into kiwi pop culture, making OWW a true cult flick. i don’t think you are in any position to refute it, really. arguing semantics doesn’t make you right.

  46. leahnz says:

    again, just because a movie does well at the box office (calling OWW an ‘all-time smash’ is WAY overstating the fact; i was here when it opened, it was successful, not a smash phenom. the movie is very hard going and mainstream nz doesn’t want to see that hard yakka and violence) does NOT mean it can’t become a cult film. most movies that do well financially are gone and largely forgotten a year later, so obviously ‘hit movie’ does not translate to ‘cult’ phenom, not at all. OWW is still going strong in certain niches all these years later, the definition (one of them anyway) of a cult film

  47. leahnz says:

    crap, i forgot to say, didn’t JBD actually apologise to perm and nic for getting what he felt in his own self was too riled up?

  48. Joe Straat says:

    Oh, I meant to somewhat answer Mr. Leydon’s question about Speed Racer earlier, but it must’ve slipped my mind. Really, the jury’s still out on Speed Racer. The thing is, family films that flopped and become cult are slower builders. Right now, we’ll have to wait until it hits non-premium cable and see how it plays (More lucky boys and girls have premium channels these days, but it’s still not a whole bunch). If it hits the kids where they can watch it like Cartoon Network or something, then it could gain some traction. Right now, most of the people watching it are the ones who loved it the first time and are trying to get people to join in, but success is limited. Anime fans are divided on it, like they are on most things, and they’re a small niche to begin with. Plus, it takes the first hour too long to get to its amazing second hour, which plays more of a factor than you’d think.
    I’m not too optimistic about it being a cult film and finishing somewhere above Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within. Speed Racer at least has more support among “film” people than that one and more people love it, but it still has a lot of work to do to get to “cult.”

  49. Jeffrey Boam's Doctor says:

    Leah not to throw fuel on the fire but you are very wrong about Warriors. It initially opened on 6 six screens and then exploded. Small distributor Footprint couldn’t keep up with the demand, with prints eventually filling every plex the following weeks. It was true b.o phenom and a smash by every conceivable understanding. To dismiss Foamy (who had the real figs and understands the performance) because of your perceived authority on the matter due to geography is just plain wrong. Just because the film is beloved and quoted by kiwis does not make it a cult film. It is a maintream hit not a cult. I don’t think you can argue these facts. I do not want to start a battle on this matter by any means but you are incorrect and saying “I was there” means nothing when presented with the reality.
    $6,795,000 – ONCE WERE WARRIORS – Footprint

  50. The Big Perm says:

    Foamy, I would argue that cult is NOT insufficient to gain a sequel. Obviously there are some other factors, like doing it for a budget and having marketable elements. I think the problem with you guys is you think a “cult” is just fifty unwashed nerds watching movies at revival houses…cults can be bigger than that.
    I think JBD has finally realized that movies can never love him back, and he is all alone.

  51. Jeffrey Boam's Doctor says:

    Leah. Not to rub salt in but to cap it off.
    ” i was here when it opened, it was successful, not a smash phenom”
    It is still the #2 NZ film of all time as of April 21, 2010.

  52. Jeffrey Boam's Doctor says:

    Perm are you saying Ebony Humpers 5 does not love me? Balderdash!

  53. Joe Leydon says:

    Get Carter — cult or non-cult?
    Cutter’s Way — cult or non-cult?
    Eddie and the Cruisers — cult or non-cult?
    Plan 9 from Outer Space — cult or non-cult?
    Discuss.

  54. Hallick says:

    Cutter’s Way is mine! Keep your culty hands off of my movie and go eat a Cosco-sized drum of marshmallow creme with John Heard (but don’t do it at the same time, or he’ll strip the meat off your arm like a mutant piranha…)
    Now let me get back to my glass harmonica lessons!

  55. Joe Leydon says:

    Hallick: That was a great score, wasn’t it? And I loved the ending — even though Ivan Passer once told me that it actually was a stitched together montage of about 3-4 endings they shot.

  56. Hallick says:

    I really love the music in “Cutter’s Way”, and what a great insane choice to overlap the mariachi music with the glass harmonica score. It gives the movie a kind of delirium-induced schism that suits the characters in the film. That ending is lodged in a piece of my soul for all time, even if Passar did throw a bunch of endings into a blender. I love that last shot.
    And all cheap shots aside, if you want to see proof that John Heard could BURN through the screen like a sequoia-sized pack of magnesium strips pushed into the path of a blowtorch, track this flick down immediately.
    But just like William Petersen, he somehow went from being cock-of-the-walk incarnate one decade, to IHOP’s number one fan the next. He looks so tired…

  57. Jeffrey Boam's Doctor says:

    Joe.
    Get Carter — Has many factors about it that scream cult. Enduring, neglected, slow build, tangential successes, score + dialogue. Critically acclaimed and middling int’l boxoffice hit with major star at peak of his game. Tough call. Substitute for SCUM for the win.
    Cutter’s Way — Danny Peary fave and one of mine too, though I’d be hard pressed to say it’s a cult film. It’s as much a cult film as WHO’LL STOP THE RAIN, critically admired and has devoted fans but has no other hallmarks of a cult film.
    Eddie and the Cruisers — Much more difficult to call. It has a sequel so Perm and Nicol would say YES… but for me its a borderline cult title. Substitute for FABULOUS STAINS.
    Plan 9 from Outer Space — Cult. 100%.

  58. Hallick says:

    And here’s the opening of Cutter’s Way, with music:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FpKrKlzV_A

  59. Joe Leydon says:

    But how can Get Carter not be a cult film? Quentin Tarantino loves it. Hell, the first time I interviewed him, i think we spent more time talking about that movie than his movie (Reservoir Dogs).
    BTW: Speaking of interviews: When I interviewed Ivan Passer years — well, actually (gulp!), decades ago — he told me that one of the reasons he was able to get Cutter’s Way/Cutter and Bone made in the first place is, UA was really hot on Jeff Bridges at the time, because they thought Heaven’s Gate was going to be big, and they wanted Bridges in a follow-up film as close to that one as possible. No, I’m not making that up.
    And would Heaven’s Gate qualify as a cult film?
    Excuse me, now, I have to go see some cult TV: Treme

  60. Jeffrey Boam's Doctor says:

    Well Tarantino is a movie nut thats for certain, but this leads into the debate about films that are revered and have devoted ‘film’ fans. Thats a bit different from films that have cults. Some people love Rocky Horror but you would not call them cinefiles and they wouldn’t be able to quote Get Carter dialogue like Tarantino. Is there’s a distinction to be made? Does anyone even care?
    Heavens Gate the religion and the film I both consider cult.

  61. Hallick says:

    “Could you make the argument that there are no such things as cult movies anymore? I mean, think about it: With cable, homevideo, VOD, etc., you no longer have a situation where a movie will be released, bomb, and then only slowly get “discovered” through midnight screenings and HBO cabelcasts. That is, there’s never a point where a movie slips into obscurity and/or inaccessibility for long periods.”
    That’s assuming that every movie out there are readily available in these formats all the time. Cable only really shows a handful of movies, mostly hits or star vehicles; anything on home video can get lost when Blockbuster starts packing the shelves spine side out; you can be on a VOD list, but people have to find you and choose you.
    Besides, one of the preeminent aspects of a cult movie, in the traditional sense, seems to be that it’s something that wasn’t necessarily misunderstood, but taken for a failure at being a certain type of product at the time of release, and then appreciated for being something later down the line. A movie like “Troll 2” failed as a serious(?) effort at horror filmmaking, but it later found cult fame as an unintentional entertainment classic.

  62. David Poland says:

    I’ll skip over all the name calling, if that’s ok…
    Boondock was a HUGE hit on DVD. That is why there is a sequel. The proper analogy is Eddie & The Cruisers, though that was cable and VHS. Boondock has a core of people who have spent money. They made the sequel, like the first film, cheap. And Apparition barely had to do anything to get it over $10 million.
    Is that a cult movie? Well, there is an intense cult of spenders around it.
    Then there are movies that some people just plain adore, very intense, but not a lot of spending… hard to get a remake going. Loving Buckaroo Bonzai is not enough. They have to see dollar signs.
    Hellboy was a cult studio movie… and they made the sequel, hoping that the base would have expanded because of success on DVD and on cable/satellite. Not so much. The base was kinda the base on that one.
    I love Popeye, a movie that made money and has a huge afterlife on cable and VHS. But the conventional wisdom is that it flopped and nothing like the facts will get in the way of that.
    Inside Moves… GREAT movie… Dick Donner, written by Levinson and Curtin… how many times have I watched that one on HBO (not recently). Cult? I would think. Money? Not so much. Harold Russell’s second film. Great work. Such empathy.
    Anyway…
    Making the next movie is ALWAYS about the money. Make no mistake. They aren’t always guessing right, but they are guessing that there will be a bigger audience. And for a while, you could make Troll 7 for $1 million, make $2 million and not care. But that DVD cash cow era is gone for now.

  63. christian says:

    JBD, you’re all over the map. I love ROCKY HORROR and can quote GET CARTER.

  64. leahnz says:

    christ JBD, did you read ANYTHING i wrote re: OWW? you’re just quoting the internet so don’t pretend you’re some expert on the release pattern of OWW, please, spare me.
    so, if you read for comprehension, I ALREADY STATED IT’S THE NO 2 KIWI FILM OF ALL TIME. DUH. which means not much because like i already said earlier, kiwis don’t tend to flock to kiwi films in our tiny pond, our cultural cringe being what it is, so being the no. 2 kiwi film is cool and all but it’s a far cry from being the no. 2 film of all time.
    and i WAS there. OWW was far too brutal to be a ‘mom and pop’ mainstream hit with the white majority, it did good business, yes, esp. with certain demographics, but neither you nor foamy KNOWS WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT
    do your figures tell you how much of that 6.7 has been made in enzed with re-releases BECAUSE IT HAS BECOME A CULT FILM? the sustained CULT FOLLOWING over the 15 odd years since its release is what has turned OWW into a pop culture icon, NOT the initial theatrical release. a fairly narrow dem has kept the film alive in the kiwi pop culture consciousness, much like universities have kept ‘the blues brothers’ and ‘animal house’ alive in the american pop culture consciousness. this is the very definition of cult film. deal with it.
    obviously OWW is NOT the ‘bomb which becomes a cult flick’ type of cult movie, i think i also made that quite clear in my previous comments.
    not the list which got lost in the search shuffle but an article i came across from 2003 beforehand, which states ‘whale rider’ had passed OWW’s domestic total of 3.8 mil:
    http://www.screendaily.com/whale-rider-becomes-2nd-highest-grossing-local-nz-film/4012521.article

  65. Jeffrey Boam's Doctor says:

    Thanks for backing me DP.
    Christian. You are not listening. You just proved my point. You’re a cinefile. Not everyone who loves Rocky Horror and is part of that particular cult would even know what the fuck Get Carter is. Using yourself (and lets be frank, you’re an outsider) as a rule of thumb is just plain ol silly.
    Is everyone around here a bit Alan Thicke?

  66. leahnz says:

    sorry, i boobed that above, should read “which states whale rider has passed the no. three film to become the second highest grosser behind OWW at no. 1 with 3.8 mil”

  67. Jeffrey Boam's Doctor says:

    Leah when you’re proven wrong, you just go completely psychotic.
    I know the distributors and exhibitors who released Warriors in NZ. What do you know? Re-releases? What ones were those Leah? None dummy.
    Those figures were boxoffice figures not homevideo or ancillary. You haven’t a clue woman. I know it’s release pattern intimately (this is my business) and I know more kiwis than you. Jesus Christ, you’re not even a kiwi for fucks sake.
    Pakeha NZ’ers didn’t go to Warriors? What a stupid thing to say. No film does that boxoffice in NZ without middle NZ going in droves to it. Next you’ll say Sione’s Wedding was only attended by brown NZ or some niche demo. Dummy x 2.
    Warriors is in the All Time NZ boxoffice list as well. Why don’t you stop spouting shit you have no idea about and learn to be humble and eat some pie. Check the NZFilm site itself and not incorrect international trades that always full of errors.
    Go on argue away. Change your tune, adjust previous comments. Everything I nailed you on, you will try and weasal out of.
    You have been schooled to the ends of middle earth but it won’t stop you from coming back with more inane dribble about you being there = authority. We’ve seen that authoritative voice above. Completely wrong and angrily defensive when proven dead wrong. You didn’t even know how it was originally released , you got ALL the facts wrong. Can you just for once in your annoying closeted life admit you fucked up?
    Game over.

  68. Joe Leydon says:

    Inside Moves may not be a cult movie, but it is a great movie.

  69. leahnz says:

    JBD, honestly, are you insane or on heavy meds?
    (you know more kiwis than me? and i’m not a kiwi? seriously, get some help. not sure who you think i am, but you’re off your rocker)
    (i actually just saw OWW at victoria university not long ago in a double bill with ‘what becomes of the broke hearted. yes,still playing ALL OVER THE COUNTRY. WHERE I LIVE. AND YOU DON’T. but you know more kiwis than i do, naturally…)

  70. The Big Perm says:

    Stop with the “game over,” nerd. I hate internet talk like that…nuff said, thanks for playing. Shut up.
    Also, maybe don’t call out someone for going psychotic, mama’s boy. You seem like a real sack of shit, JBD. Everyone’s here having a nice discussion about cult movies, a topic I like, and you had to go and get nasty and now I have to hope that you get hit by a car and die and go to hell and Hitler gets to rape you.

  71. Jeffrey Boam's Doctor says:

    Leah. Neither but that seems to be your comeback when you’re proven wrong. I’m just high on the fact that I corrected you several times. Illustrious Energy played in Nelson recently, I guess that must be a cult film too. Just because films get screened in rep houses, film socs or universities doesn’t make them cult. Come on now, you struggling and its embarrassing.
    Perm. You big white shining Hot Blog stud. You giving me lessons in forum etiquette. Now thats truly funny.

  72. Joe Leydon says:

    There seems to be an outbreak of lunacy on this thread.

  73. leahnz says:

    JBD, dearheart, you are the king of embarrassing yourself in this thread
    (and not a single thing you’ve said has proven me wrong about OWW being a cult movie in enzed, however much you would like to delude yourself into thinking so. no other kiwi film that’s done well at the box office has had a sustained, hard-core cult following over the many years since its release like OWW. OWW is a cult phenom. sorry that you just don’t get it, but i question your sanity at this point with all that nonsense about me above. i don’t know what your dealio is but it’s fucked up)

  74. doug r says:

    I submit a couple of Stephen Chow movies: Shaolin Soccer and Kung Fu Hustle. Spike gets the Bruce Lee vibe-speaking of which, would Enter the Dragon and Game of Death be cult?

  75. Geoff says:

    Office Space is just an obvious example of a cult hit – the ratio of people who now quote it on a regular basis vs. those who actually saw it in theaters has to be over 100 to 1.
    Other recent examples have to include:
    Swingers – beloved film, heavily-quoted, launched the careers of Vince Vaughn and Jon Favreua, and apparently no one saw it in theaters but me
    The Big Lebowski – yes, it was hyped and had major stars. But it flopped on initial release. The film has gotten a HUGE following to the point where they are now having yearly festivals devoted to it!
    Showgirls – same with Lebowski, heavily hyped but flopped on initial release. The film just BELOVED by a certain group and quote incessantly. Also had many midnight shows after release.
    Dark City – I never quite understood why, but there are legions of people who LOVE this movie, probably owes a large part to Roger Ebert and how he championed it.
    I’m trying hard to think of a post-2000 one and it is a bit tougher:
    Donnie Darko – would probably qualify, though I still have yet to see it.
    There Will Be Blood – does this qualify? I’m curious. It actually did pretty solid business upon release, considering the subject matter. Not a true mainstream success, but I think the film could approach Scarface-levels of adoration for the Daniel Plainview, considering how much cache Daniel Day Lewis has from just that role and how often I hear people imitate his voice. Seriously, I have heard about so much love for that film, but the only reason I ever hear is for his performance. I can see it as one of those films that really plays on cable for years – regularly gets some bloated half-day of time on TNT a la The Postman. Am I the only one who sees this happening?

  76. Foamy Squirrel says:

    I saw Once Were Warriors on its initial release. I was in Wellington as part of the High School National Shakespeare Competition, and deserted my team to go to the movies with the group from Waihi. We won Best Tragedy and Most Promising Newcomer for our abstract performance of Hamlet, where the actors faced away from each other and synchronized their movements to depict Hamlet’s increasing disconnection with reality.
    (What actually happened was we were included on a couple of days’ notice when the lead actor of one of the other teams came down with glandular fever. We had already destroyed all our props and costumes so we had to come up with something to distract the audience from the threadbare performance)
    I’m oversharing because I really want to emphasize that I’m not unfamiliar with kiwi culture. I’ve been changing countries every 2-3 years since I was 2 years old, and because the majority of my extended family lives in New Zealand every 3rd or so of those intercontinental jumps was to NZ. It may account for less than 1/3 of my life, but it’s still the country in which I have spent the most time.
    Getting back to the data, there’s a footnote at the bottom of the Val Morgan page to say it does NOT include lifetime box office – so re-releases are not included. As I mentioned in one of the James Cameron threads, not everything on the internet is true but using “It’s wrong. I know better” as your rebuttal is not the strongest of arguments. I like the Val Morgan data because it forms the basis of the company’s business model – if it’s inaccurate then there can be financial and legal penalties. 10 seconds of googling corroborates this evidence here here here here and from 1995 articles here and here.
    I specifically adjusted for currency effects to minimize the effect of difference in ticket prices, and repeat viewings at release for an R-rated movie about domestic violence, alcoholism, rape and suicide? I’m suspecting that will be fairly low. Despite those factors, the statistics still indicate that it was seen by approximately 1/4 of the entire national population on initial release.
    You make the argument that it qualifies as cult because it has permeated the culture, and as a comparison you cite Star Wars. I’m arguing it permeated NZ culture because the majority of people over 15 had seen it within a few years of release, due to the initial box office smash and extensive TV coverage at a time when there were 3 free-to-air channels and pay TV was restricted to Auckland. That disqualifies it from being “cult” for me, which then brings us to “what is cult?” which you’ve already stated is something of a pointless discussion.

  77. christian says:

    ENTER THE DRAGON was a hit but is still definitely a cult film. Like I said, I saw it at many midnight movie screenings through the 80’s.
    And JBD, you think you have a ruler with four marks that tell you what defines a cult film or who can be a member. That don’t make it so.
    A ROCKY HORROR fan is fairly likely to be a cinephile or at least a film buff — you think people grooving to George Pal and RKO references are the outlier RHPS audience?

  78. leahnz says:

    foamy, man i’m happy to talk to you, you’re refreshingly rational and not a batshit insane wanker!
    (and i’m also happy you spent time here in godzone, i don’t know why but it always warms my cockles, so there you go. did you live in waihi? the coromandel is one of my fave spots on earth, cathedral cove and hot water beach are legend in my family summer holidays. i’m a beach rat by nature, which doesn’t exactly jive with living in wellington, which you would understand, but we do what we have to do)
    (ftr i don’t dispute that val morgan figure — i’m not sure if i made that clear i was posting very hurriedly today — simply that the figures i found weren’t the same so i wasn’t entirely certain which source to believe, but i’m fine with val morgan’s stats, it was really beside the point anyway because my point re: OWW was cultural, not $. i’m a box office boob, not AT ALL my area of expertise and i’m perfectly fine admitting it)
    “and repeat viewings at release for an R-rated movie about domestic violence, alcoholism, rape and suicide”
    this comments makes two points for me: yes, i think it’s safe to say OWW had a good deal of repeat business, anecdotally i’ve heard it many, many times over the years and for me it was twice at the cinema on initial release and 3 or 4 times since in different venues; also, this statement again makes the point for me that i touched on earlier re: OWW NOT appealing to the broadest swath of the middle-class ‘mum and dad’ public ticket-buyers, many of whom do not care for and can not handle such a heavy movie with hard-core violence and grief, and stay well away from such flicks.
    “I’m arguing it permeated NZ culture because the majority of people over 15 had seen it within a few years of release”
    i think that’s unquantifiable and likely quite an exaggeration, and whether 1/4 the population saw at the cinema on initial release is also just guessing, i highly doubt that. but again, sort of beside my point, which was:
    a financially successful movie CAN become a cult flick, there have been several examples in this thread. a financially successful film does not automatically translate into a cult following and pop culture significance, not in the slightest, it takes a rabid fan base to carry it. OWW is a rare fish and i think it makes OWW all the more unique.
    and just to address something i meant to before: “Just because films get screened in rep houses, film socs or universities doesn’t make them cult.”
    (and just to add cinemas, which i have seen OWW in over the years, no matter what twatBD thinks there in the US)
    nope, it doesn’t. but it most certainly doesn’t mean they are NOT cult films, in fact far more likely to indicate that they are, so just one pointless, silly comment amongst many

  79. Foamy Squirrel says:

    True, the audience figures are guesses (yet another conversation that’s flogged its horse – “trying to estimate attendance from box office”). But given that in the ballpark of 950k tickets were sold at the box office, and 20% of the population is under 15 which makes 1.45mil+ a “majority”, it’s not unreasonable to guess that it passed that hurdle with the benefit of video and TV, especially when you consider that TV1 had 60% audience share at the time. It’s also nice to know that audiences can respond to challenging fare.
    This is all rather splitting hairs though – I guess my roundabout point is that from a global view it qualifies as cult but from a NZ view it could be considered mainstream. Again, it mostly depends on your personal definitions of those terms.
    (We used to visit Waihi during the 80’s when we came over to have Christmas with our cousins – I remember watching Howard the Duck in the cinema on the beach. At the time of Once Were Warriors, my parents had sent me off to boarding school in Nelson to try and settle me down)

  80. Jeffrey Boam's Doctor says:

    Leah sweetcheeks for some reason I could have sworn you said you had moved to NZ years ago. Sorry if that was incorrect. (see its easy, you should try it sometime)
    Meet me down at Sweet Mamas for a coffee and I’ll tell you to your face why you are very wrong about Warriors. Then we can go see the Manager at the Paramount and she can explain it to you too. Then and maybe then you will start listening to people who know more about this stuff than you ever will.
    You state that it wasn’t a smash hit.
    It was.
    So when faced with the facts, you switch and say it doesn’t matter you meant it culturally. Even though you harped on about boxoffice for several posts to me but now finally beaten you admit to knowing nothing about NZ boxoffice. Well at least you’re finally being honest.
    The film has never been re-released in NZ. Let that sink in. You do understand what a re-release is right? You stated it had. It hadn’t. The film has had no more additional screenings than Indian, Siones, Came A hot Friday or any popular NZ title. Screenings for these title are arranged by outdoor cinema operators, film socs or the NZ film archive. Nor has it had any homevideo bumps that would signify to its distributor that its a cult title. No more, no less than other successful kiwi films.
    Next you’ll be saying BOY is a cult film as all the kids are spouting the lines and imitating Waititi’s fashion sense.
    “Make me some eggs’ does not a cult film make.
    It’s the equivalent of “You call that a knife?”.
    As I said eons ago. It’s much respected and liked from all of NZ. It made many a Kiwi proud to see such a powerful film on screen, especially after suffering through most of the 80s with pics like Send A Gorilla.
    A competition to find NZs most well known movie line was won a few years back by a line from Bad Taste. A true kiwi cult film.
    Still think you know more about NZ film than the Doc?
    Guess again sista.

  81. leahnz says:

    wait, wait, wait JBD, i’m off to bed but…
    did you just say:
    “Then we can go see the Manager at the Paramount and she can explain it to you too.”?
    THIS is your stab at NZ film expertise, the manager at the friggin’ PARAMOVNT? LOL. seriously fucking retarded.
    and all that other blather? i can’t be bothered addressing it point for lame point, but suffice to say, you are truly pathetic, sad little man. why don’t you piss in your own mouth, the taste should perfectly complement the bullshit rising from your colon. yummo!
    i’ve been working on making films here since ‘heavenly creatures’, stupid mutherfucker. don’t condescend to me. i’ll take your ‘let’s talk to the MANAGER AT THE FUCKING PARAMOVNT and raise you actual film-making, twat for brains. i couldn’t give a rat’s ass how much you think you know about the film distribution business in enzed or whatever lame-ass menial little shit-can job you do thinking it makes you part of the ‘film industry’, you’re a knowitall fuckwit and a class-A TOSSER and i wouldn’t do your crap job if my life depended on it twice on sunday (i don’t know what means but whatever). yes, meet me for coffee and i’ll laugh in idiot face.
    fun times, eh
    to foamy: why does everybody get sent to boarding school in nelson when they’re naughty teens? well, just you and courtney love and my friend that i know of for certain, but still. weird

  82. Foamy Squirrel says:

    Oh god, don’t tell me I might know someone you do. I’ve taken to not mentioning part of my family lives in New Zealand because I got sick of the “Oh they must know my friend…” comments.
    I missed Courtney Love by a number of years, but if anything boarding school made me worse. I counted my recorded absences in my last year and if you lined them all up they totaled about 2 months straight of missed classes.
    How did we get here? Oh yeah…
    Speaking of Indian, Welsh comedian Rob Brydon does the best impression of Anthony Hopkins trying to do a kiwi accent.

  83. hcat says:

    Is Eddie and the Cruisers fondly remembered? I know the soundtrack became a big hit after it was played on cable constantly but I never thought the movie was well liked.
    Geoff – Almost all your examples are from smaller companies (Gramercy, Vantage) that didn’t really reach large audiences in theaters. Of course they are going to find a larger audience on video, but I don’t think that would automatically place them in the cult column.
    And while there were some great performances in Inside Moves, it really had some terribly hokey dialogue. That big confrontation scene in the bar before the game was so earnest it could have been written by Barton Fink.

  84. Joe Leydon says:

    Ah, but Hcat — I loved that scene. “Don’t fuck with our dreams!”

  85. hcat says:

    “You’ll lose that bet, Stinky!!!”

  86. hcat says:

    And just a question about Office Space. Since everyone has seen it and it is sold a millions of dvds hasn’t it moved beyond cult status? I mean cult by definition has to mean small and devoted and even though it belatedly reached a large audience it would still achieved a high level of popularity.

  87. Joe Straat says:

    Anyone want to help start the cult of “After Last Season?” We need to make flyers. There are printers in the basement you can use.

  88. christian says:

    Cult does not mean small audience — nobody could deny that HAROLD AND MAUDE is a cult film that eventually made a healthy profit and has been seen by many, or millions in the case of ROCKY HORROR. OFFICE SPACE is certainly a cult film as is SLAP SHOT — at this point there are not as many film secrets unlike the days pre-tape/dvd/web.

  89. hcat says:

    I’ll have to defer to a somewhat older crowd on Slapshot, I was young when it came out but as of the early eighties it was in heavy rotation on the cable channels and one of those must see movies like Animal House. It didn’t make Smokey and the Bandit money but I thought it was at least a respectable hit, and I would think having a slightly ageing Newman reteam with his Butch and Sting director would have made it too high profile upon release to be considered cult.
    As for the others, wouldn’t cult movies be ones that traditionally divided audiences. I have watched Harold and Maude with many different people and the ones who didn’t immediatly fall in love with it just stared with a “what the hell is this?” look on their face. If you include Slap Shot and Office Space in the definition wouldn’t Billy Madison also fit into the cult category since it did poorly upon release but was a huge hit on video, is beloved by the Sandler legion, and still gets played often on cable? Just wondering what people think the difference is between being a cult film and simply having a long tail?

  90. christian says:

    SLAP SHOT was actually considered shocking upon its release and received negative notice because of that. Wile it made money, it was not at a huge hit.

  91. Cadavra says:

    All this jibber-jabber about what makes a cult film and nobody brings up THE LOST SKELETON OF CADAVRA?
    No budget, no stars? Check.
    Theatrical flop? Check.
    Discovered on DVD by ever-growing body of fans who quote the dialogue, throw parties and even dress up as the characters? Check.
    Sequel? Check.
    CADAVRA power. Bow, bitches.

  92. christian says:

    FILMED IN SKELETORAMA!

  93. CaptainZahn says:

    Maybe I’m misremembering, but wasn’t one of the things claimed in Wanted & Desired that the judge told someone that he was going to change the sentence? Possibly a stupid question, but would that have been improper and/or illegal for him to do?

  94. CaptainZahn says:

    err, wrong post.

Quote Unquotesee all »

It shows how out of it I was in trying to be in it, acknowledging that I was out of it to myself, and then thinking, “Okay, how do I stop being out of it? Well, I get some legitimate illogical narrative ideas” — some novel, you know?

So I decided on three writers that I might be able to option their material and get some producer, or myself as producer, and then get some writer to do a screenplay on it, and maybe make a movie.

And so the three projects were “Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep,” “Naked Lunch” and a collection of Bukowski. Which, in 1975, forget it — I mean, that was nuts. Hollywood would not touch any of that, but I was looking for something commercial, and I thought that all of these things were coming.

There would be no Blade Runner if there was no Ray Bradbury. I couldn’t find Philip K. Dick. His agent didn’t even know where he was. And so I gave up.

I was walking down the street and I ran into Bradbury — he directed a play that I was going to do as an actor, so we know each other, but he yelled “hi” — and I’d forgot who he was.

So at my girlfriend Barbara Hershey’s urging — I was with her at that moment — she said, “Talk to him! That guy really wants to talk to you,” and I said “No, fuck him,” and keep walking.

But then I did, and then I realized who it was, and I thought, “Wait, he’s in that realm, maybe he knows Philip K. Dick.” I said, “You know a guy named—” “Yeah, sure — you want his phone number?”

My friend paid my rent for a year while I wrote, because it turned out we couldn’t get a writer. My friends kept on me about, well, if you can’t get a writer, then you write.”
~ Hampton Fancher

“That was the most disappointing thing to me in how this thing was played. Is that I’m on the phone with you now, after all that’s been said, and the fundamental distinction between what James is dealing with in these other cases is not actually brought to the fore. The fundamental difference is that James Franco didn’t seek to use his position to have sex with anyone. There’s not a case of that. He wasn’t using his position or status to try to solicit a sexual favor from anyone. If he had — if that were what the accusation involved — the show would not have gone on. We would have folded up shop and we would have not completed the show. Because then it would have been the same as Harvey Weinstein, or Les Moonves, or any of these cases that are fundamental to this new paradigm. Did you not notice that? Why did you not notice that? Is that not something notable to say, journalistically? Because nobody could find the voice to say it. I’m not just being rhetorical. Why is it that you and the other critics, none of you could find the voice to say, “You know, it’s not this, it’s that”? Because — let me go on and speak further to this. If you go back to the L.A. Times piece, that’s what it lacked. That’s what they were not able to deliver. The one example in the five that involved an issue of a sexual act was between James and a woman he was dating, who he was not working with. There was no professional dynamic in any capacity.

~ David Simon