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It shows how out of it I was in trying to be in it, acknowledging that I was out of it to myself, and then thinking, “Okay, how do I stop being out of it? Well, I get some legitimate illogical narrative ideas” — some novel, you know?
So I decided on three writers that I might be able to option their material and get some producer, or myself as producer, and then get some writer to do a screenplay on it, and maybe make a movie.
And so the three projects were “Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep,” “Naked Lunch” and a collection of Bukowski. Which, in 1975, forget it — I mean, that was nuts. Hollywood would not touch any of that, but I was looking for something commercial, and I thought that all of these things were coming.
There would be no Blade Runner if there was no Ray Bradbury. I couldn’t find Philip K. Dick. His agent didn’t even know where he was. And so I gave up.
I was walking down the street and I ran into Bradbury — he directed a play that I was going to do as an actor, so we know each other, but he yelled “hi” — and I’d forgot who he was.
So at my girlfriend Barbara Hershey’s urging — I was with her at that moment — she said, “Talk to him! That guy really wants to talk to you,” and I said “No, fuck him,” and keep walking.
But then I did, and then I realized who it was, and I thought, “Wait, he’s in that realm, maybe he knows Philip K. Dick.” I said, “You know a guy named—” “Yeah, sure — you want his phone number?”
My friend paid my rent for a year while I wrote, because it turned out we couldn’t get a writer. My friends kept on me about, well, if you can’t get a writer, then you write.”
~ Hampton Fancher
“That was the most disappointing thing to me in how this thing was played. Is that I’m on the phone with you now, after all that’s been said, and the fundamental distinction between what James is dealing with in these other cases is not actually brought to the fore. The fundamental difference is that James Franco didn’t seek to use his position to have sex with anyone. There’s not a case of that. He wasn’t using his position or status to try to solicit a sexual favor from anyone. If he had — if that were what the accusation involved — the show would not have gone on. We would have folded up shop and we would have not completed the show. Because then it would have been the same as Harvey Weinstein, or Les Moonves, or any of these cases that are fundamental to this new paradigm. Did you not notice that? Why did you not notice that? Is that not something notable to say, journalistically? Because nobody could find the voice to say it. I’m not just being rhetorical. Why is it that you and the other critics, none of you could find the voice to say, “You know, it’s not this, it’s that”? Because — let me go on and speak further to this. If you go back to the L.A. Times piece, that’s what it lacked. That’s what they were not able to deliver. The one example in the five that involved an issue of a sexual act was between James and a woman he was dating, who he was not working with. There was no professional dynamic in any capacity.
~ David Simon
Michael Giacchino carried that mess of a show on his back last night.
So much so he deserves an acting, writing and directing credit.
Didn’t Abrams say, some time ago, that the secret to the show was definitely NOT that the island was some kind of limbo/death’s-waiting-room place?
Either he was lying, or between now and then they said ‘screw this, we can’t think of anything better than what was already old when it was five Twilight Zone episodes’.
Last night’s Lost was beautiful, elegiac and humbling. Haters beware: just because you didn’t get it doesn’t mean it didn’t rock. It means that you’re impatient, heartless or stupid.
I watched the first three seasons (season three finale is great) before losing track. I say best recent series finale is Six Feet Under’s.
“It means that you’re impatient, heartless or stupid.”
Jeff Wells has taught you well, padwan.
I still vote for The Sopranos.
The Shield FTW as far as awesome series endings, to say nothing of maintaining quality and vision from first episode to last.
I wouldn’t say it was “perfect,” but I did feel the finale carried the overwhelming expectations put upon it very well. Also, I’m amazed at the number of people who, after hopefully watching the show carefully, still think the island was purgatory. The island was real, the sideways world in Season 6 was the purgatory.
“Jeff Wells has taught you well, padwan.”
Go tell it to the Eloi, fatty.
Fuck, how many bitches I gots to explain this to? the island was the island and the flash sideways universe was a place where the Oceanic survivors created to wait for each other after death before they moved on to their next place.
Look: If you don’t like the show, fine. But why bother posting? Was it perfect? No. Was it some of the best TV done over he last six years? Fuck yes it was. But as much as I loved the show I still consider THE WIRE to be the CITIZEN KANE of TV. But Lost really is something the lieks of which we won’t see again.
Hate all you want, but I loved this show and was choked up at the end.
Did Shannon come back?
Lost just became too fat. It expanded its scope so much that it was soon obvious (several seasons back for me) that there was no way it would bring itself together. I actually quit watching a few years back and returned only this year on a Netflix/Hulu binge, mostly out of boredom.
And this season, when they started asking five new stupid questions for every one they answered and introducing new stupid characters when there were perfectly good ones sitting around doing nothing, the writing was on the wall: The creators were bullshitting us.
And yes, The Sopranos did it right… contracting in its last season into a single table in a single room… instead of expanding the drama beyond not only time and space but freaking EXISTENCE.
Boo hoo, Crow.
Hey Wrecktum, shut the fuck up. People can get something and dislike it. I say this as neither a hater nor defender of Lost, which I could care less about. I watched a few seasons, but for all the talk about how the show was about the characters and not the mysteries, it really didn’t seem to be.
And Jeff, yes Abrams or at least one of the main dudes on Lost said there was no way the island was purgatory or anything like that. So if it was, then they are dirty stinking liars who made the most obvious ending possible. Of course it’s not like they could admit it if they had that ending planned and someone asked, but they’re still dirty liars.
Sopranos gets my vote for best ever. Maybe I’ll have to check out The Shield, watching a cable cop drama after these great uncensored HBO shows seems a little weak to me though.
EMILIE DE RAVIN POWER.
One thing about LOST: Always tons of hot, wet, awesome chicks on a beach. And all kinds of variety, from Ana Lucia to Nikki to Kate to Claire to SHANNON POWER to Sun to whatever suited your fancy.
IMPORTANT QUESTION: I know they have a grueling schedule and they’ve been off in Hawaii for six years, but, man, how come Josh Holloway hasn’t taken off as some kind of big-movie bad-ass? Dude could be the next Kurt Russell… or at least the next MARTIN HENDERSON… but so far, nothing.
SAWYER POWER.
Hey Perm, since you “could care less about” (sic) Lost, then your opinion really, really, really doesn’t matter. At all.
But since you (who doesn’t care) mentioned it, the island wasn’t purgatory, so calling anyone a “dirty liar” is, well…stupid. But you don’t care, so why bother.
Lex, Josh Holloway has stated that he wants to take a shot at feature films now that Lost is done, so here’s hoping.
Abrams was right… the island isn’t purgatory. Amazing how few people seemed to get that after it was spelled out pretty obviously in the final episode.
I loved the finale for the most part. Sure it had its flaws, as the show has from the beginning, but it was ultimately extremely moving, and I can’t say that about much on TV or in theaters.
FUCK YEAH, get that guy Sam Worthington’s agents.
In addition to LOST, “Sawyer” is eternally awesome for being the purse-snatcher who jailbait Alicia Silverstone drop-kicked in the immortal “Cryin'” video.
GOOD RESUME.
I liked the ending for the character connections, like seeing Sawyer and Juliet together. But as that was like 25% of the episode, I ended up hating the other 75% of it.
I mean, purgatory? Really? Then why bother giving Jack a son, if no son ever existed? Why make Aaron exist there as a baby? Why have people kill others in purgatory? It makes not a lick of sense.
The writers clearly wrote it to play on expectations from Jughead and then took the easy way out.
And the whole thing comes down to that the castaways were trapped in a war between two supernatural beings. But you don’t really introduce them until nearly the last season. Smacks of a deus ex machina. Literally.
Nope, sorry. This ending was 75% suck.
It’s very funny how the simplest of things can still go over peoples heads.
Well then Nick, please explain if it’s so simple.
Re: Jack’s son… his main issues were with his father, so presumably the experience of being a father himself (with a strained relationship with his own son) helped him work through those issues.
I haven’t really dissected all of the Sideways stories yet, but my feeling is each one represents some sort of working through of issues for each character.
” introducing new stupid characters when there were perfectly good ones sitting around doing nothing”
the show started doing this in, like, season 2… maybe 3. I don’t remember, but I do remember at some point thinking… there are 50 (or whatever) people here… what are the other people DOING… they may as well have only had the main people survive. I know the show poked fun at this fact a few times, but that is not dealing with the problem… it’s just shrugging and saying, “yeah whaddya gonna do?”
“my feeling is each one represents some sort of working through of issues for each character.”
Yeah, I don’t think we should assume that Fisher Stevens is driving a towncar and procuring hookers for infinity.
“Michael Giacchino carried that mess of a show on his back last night.”
I’m a Giacchino fan, and I suppose the music in and of itself was alright, but that episode was way overscored (a recurring problem in the sentimental moments of Lost and overwrought as hell.
I suppose my biggest problem with this episode, and the final season in general, is that I expected there to be some sort of significance to all the rules and restrictions placed on the main characters as well as the man in black, but no, it was all completely arbitrary.
I mean, I don’t mind the ambiguity of the ending, but if you just place the “Jacob and the man in black can’t kill eachother” rule into the proceedings without explaining it (despite devoting an entire episode to their existence), then it has no meaning, it’s just arbitrary deus ex machina and all that.
I’m also pretty sure last night’s episode was the worst in the series. Half of it was a really smug reunion show and the other half was like a direct-to-video adventure movie.
Another fan of The Sopranos ending. Loved it.
Josh Holloway took a stab at feature films in 2007, a horror flick called Whisper that went direct-to-DVD. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0435528/
“but if you just place the “Jacob and the man in black can’t kill eachother” rule into the proceedings without explaining it”
They DID explain it. The protector of the island sets the rules. When it was Allison Janney, she set the rule that they can’t kill each other. The board game the boys discovered was a shorthand way of showing that whoever discovers the game first makes the rules.
There’s stuff they didn’t explain, but that was there.
How could Hurley see dead people? How did they get plucked from the aircraft when they flew back over the island? Why was Allison Janney’s character such a crazy bitch?
/www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYOJK6C4ijY&feature=player_embedded
Ok, let’s try:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYOJK6C4ijY
it’s not too late for Brett Ratner to reedit Sex and the City 2, lose the two song sequences (“I am Woman” and the Liza number) and chop that 150-minute puppy to an hour-and-a-half – leave the P Cruz cameo in though
You will BOW FAITHFULLY (and splendidly) to this incomparable piece of ’90s nostalgia, the greatest video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfNmyxV2Ncw
SAWYER ALERT AT 3:30, Holloway rocking a TOTAL 1993 mushroom flop-cut.
Also BOW to jailbait Alicia. Oh, my GOD, didn’t realize til just rewatching this she was totally the K-STEW of 1994. Time to break out my ancient DVD of THE CRUSH (GOOOOOD MOVIE.)
Also note the awesome ’90s fashions like her Docs with the dress and the flannel and the general awesomeness… Also DORFF POWER.
Someone tell me how to acquire a time machine and go back to that era.
But… what the hell did Holloway do, acting-wise, between 1993 and 2004?
Dorff’s smug sunglass-pocketing and “what the fuck?” hands-shrug at 4:35 is the coolest thing ever. I want to be more like him.
How is it complete arbitrary? Whomever runs the island makes the rules. The Mother made the rules and she made a rule that stated JACOB AND MIB CANNOT KILL ONE ANOTHER! The one who runs the island makes the rules. Hurley runs the island now and he is going to change the rules.
If you have a problem with the whole purgatory thing then you have to realize that it’s not purgatory, but a construct created as a way station for all the people on the island before they go to the great beyond. They built that place for one another in order to find one another in the after life and that thought alone is so profound to me, that I am shocked anyone could mock it or condemn it. Apparently friendship and love are not that important to people anymore.
I hundred percent agree with Wrectum about this and that’s something.
“it’s not purgatory, but a construct created as a way station for all the people on the island before they go to the great beyond”
700 years ago “Purgatory” was a place where repentant sinners worked off their excess sin, but over the last 50 years or so it’s been used by thousands of writers as a generic afterlife holding pen that’s neither heaven nor hell. Usage is the final arbiter of meaning, and it’s FAR more common these days to find the word used in the generic sense than Dante’s strict definition.
Arguing that it’s not purgatory it’s a way station is therefore like arguing it’s not a dog it’s a greyhound. People are allowed to not like it – they’re not defective if they don’t.
Foamy…as long as they realize that the island itself was NEVER the afterlife…only the flash-sideways world was.
Foamy, it’s not purgatory. Christian Shepard explained it to you and you still think it’s purgatory. That’s your lack of understanding and thus not the show’s problem.
You will note that nowhere did I write that it IS purgatory. I pointed out that IO was trying to split hairs that don’t exist.
I’ll add that LYT is correct – I should have been more clear. 😉
No, I am stating the facts of the matter. The castaways were not atoning for sins, they were trying to make themselves right before they moved on. They made it. Purgatory is not something created by humans who visited an island that’s the centre of all human existence and thus some how, either through Jack or Hurley, created a way station to help them get to the after life.
If you want to refer to the sideways universe as purgatory then I would like you remember what Christian told his son and to go and watch the Matrix. Oh yeah, Desmond did see him in another life brotha.
Oh yeah, it does not make them defective but it may make them come across as a bunch of whiners. Apparently the boxset of the season is going to go into more details about things but people are so quick to judge, so quick to lash out before thinking things through, that they will totally miss their all important answers. Seriously though, Darlton and Co. answered every important question to the core of this show but some people had a hard time accepting the answers they got, and that makes them defective in terms of their capacity to interpret date but it does not make them stupid.
It may, however, demonstrate their true moral character because look at Farci’s response and look McWeeney’s response. The way you respond to things has to reflect on you and if you responded to this amazing film length finale like a jerk or a spoiled brat upset about not solving the MYSTERIEZ L0l, then I have to assume that states a lot more about you than anything else ever can.
The irony of the above is not lost… ha… on me, so let me put it another way. Hating the finale of LOST to me is like hating Sigur Ros or Jonsi. If that level of beauty and awesomeness does not move you, does not touch the core fibers of your humanity, and makes you feel in ways pop culture in general rarely makes you feel, then I am going to be really curious as to why and look at you a bit cross.
They need to get Holloway on SONS OF ANARCHY ASAP!!! He’d be great playing Jax’s uncle or anything. He’d fit right in. No shame in doing TV cause there is some great stuff on, better than any fucking movies lately.
Also, the main reason why Holloway couldn’t that WOLVERINE film (probably a good thing, since it was a POS) was because hey fim lost longer than any other show, so it was impossible, really, for anyone to go off making movies. If at all.
IO, the idea of them creating a world to get together is touching, and the scenes of them coming together were wonderful. My problem is that the world they created was obviously a red herring after the bomb went off rather than this wonderful place where they would come together.
I mean, first off, who is a soul that came together, why the need for figments (Jack’s son? Baby Aaron?)? What’s with the people not ready to move on (Ana Lucia? Boone? And how was their time on the island so special that they’d want to hook up in the afterlife?)? Why the need for people to kill, shoot, try to commit suicide? And why if this is where they all want to be, do they need Desmond to race around and pull them all together and awaken them? It’s like they wanted to do one last big psyche out, and it just fell apart in the details for me.
Sorry, we really need an edit function.
Where it says, “who is a soul that came together,” it should say, “if these were souls that wanted to come together”.
“The protector of the island sets the rules.”
Why? And if this is true, couldn’t Jacob have done a hell of a lot more to stop the smoke monster from killing people?
And if you’re gonna spend a whole episode on the origin of Jacob and the Man in Black, why would you still leave so much information out (like the Man in Black’s name?)
And furthermore, I’m shocked and severely disappointed that the entire flash-sideways storyline was just an excuse to make the finale a half-assed reunion episode.
Me-
Desmond is the constant…remember. That’s why he was needed. And the reason they all came togethe and wanted to be together was exactly what Jacob said- they all had no one and nothing before they came to the island. Those people brought out their issues and forced them to work through them and thus, to be able to move on.
A simple example of this is Jack getting over his daddy issues AND the way he finally learns to accept faith over (or in tandem with) science and the way Locke finally accepts science to ehal him.
I’m 1000% with IO on this one, the show ended beautifully and didn’t dumb itself down to appeal to everyone. There’s enough beauty in that final episode to appease anyone with a heart who isn’t looking for a frayed corner to tear apart and there’s enough mystery left to make anyone who cares want to go back through the show in it’s entirety.
Me, Boone and Shannon both moved on at the end, and all of your questions can be answered by what Christian told his son. All of those people in that church created that place. It’s their creation and that’s why Keamy had to die again because Ben wanted him to die again and I would reckon the same goes with Mikael.
Also, how is it a red herring? The bomb worked to get them back to 2007 and it also could have done something with the energy of the island to help create that way station, where everyone we knew from the island that died gathers before they hit the great unknown. They also needed Desmond because he’s Desmond. He’s the constant, he’s super special, and he’s the one that was the key to these people on the island, and why would he not be the one to help them wake up?
That aside, the need for figments had to do with these characters possibly feeling or do some things they never got to do in life and getting to to do them before they moved on. It’s very much a Matrix style idea and that really got to me.
IO: I’ve also been thinking about how Jughead could have, in some abstract way, helped create this “way station.”
I also like the idea of Hurley living for many years with Ben on the Island and somehow creating this place for all his friends.
As some one who watched the show from the beginning and never gave up on it, I loved the finale – yes, it was a little vague and hewed to the spiritual, but sorry, any one who had WATCHED the show religiously (no pun intended) should not have been shocked by this.
It was well written, well acted, exciting, and quite moving – Faraci’s review was very dickish, but what else would you expect?
I talked about it with my wife, who is much smarter than me, and she really explained it all pretty well – the finale actually left very few holes and much of it was projected ahead of time. One key to it making sense:
MIB’s tribe (the one he joined), Dharma Initiative, AND Whitman’s group were all basically after the same things at different times during the history of the island, but were NOT related – they were mutually exclusive. Hell, that was kind of obvious at points given how easy it was for Ben to switch from one side to the other – he was never part of any overarching conspiracy. Does that make sense?
Giachinno is definitely one of the key players from this series and deserves a lot of kudos – his musical cues for this show were probably more memorable than any film score I can think of in recent years.
And I still don’t get the Halloway deal – did he just avoid doing other projects? I know that the Lost schedule was tough and long – hell, remember when Terry O’ Quinn was omnipresent in every other movie and TV show BEFORE this started? (Loved him as Howard Hughes in Rocketeer)
But Matthew Fox found the time to have big roles in Speed Racer, We Are Marshall, and Vantage Point during this time – none of those seemed liked small movies with just a few weeks of shooting. And hell, I might be off on the timing, but I have to think that there might have been some overlap between Michelle Rodriguez’ stint on the show and her work in Avatar – talk about two big projects. (I think Avatar starting filming in 2005 and that’s pretty much when she was on Lost)
Josh Halloway seems the type who would be heavily courted to do some bigger roles – he’s probably a lot cheaper than Gerard Butler at this point. I’m guessing it was preference for him to stay out of it.
Not to be a jerk but I honestly cannot imagine anyone on LOST ever having a break-out movie career. This was such a team effort with such great cast chemistry, I just don’t see anyone really taking off after LOST. I mean, Daniel Dae Kim is the sidekick on the new Hawaii 5-0 show but I can’t see that really being a hit. Other than that….I dunno.
Don, while I agree that it’s a team effort, everyone who likes Holloway are not just the fans. Someone out there, like as stated before, that Sons of Anarchy being the perfect place to put him as Jax Teller’s really pissed off uncle, has to do something with him because he’s that damn good. He also lives in Hawaii now Geoff, he probably made a good living, and that may explain why he did not do more film work. He did do a film that got shelved for some reason but that’s it. Nevertheless, the brother needs to fly to the main land and get either his own show on the USA network, or join an existing show.
That aside, your wife is a very wise woman Geoff and thanks for sharing that with us. It’s right there if people want to find it but it seems like a lot of people have a hard to figuring it out for themselves.
I thought Hollway was up for the Gambit role in Wolverine or something but didn’t want to be typecast as the smart-assy southern type? Got news for him if that’s the case…
It isn’t necessarily because of LOST, but Kevin Durand is in everything now.
I can also see Michael Emerson getting John Malkovich-type roles for the rest of his life.
I have a JOB I’d like to give Emilie de Ravin.
” ‘The protector of the island sets the rules.’
Why? And if this is true, couldn’t Jacob have done a hell of a lot more to stop the smoke monster from killing people?”
I just noticed that I missed aloco’s response to me and needed to answer his questions, so here’s the answers. Jacob, is just a guy and he’s a guy that lived thousands of years and never forgave himself for what he did to his brother. He’s also a guy that had a very laissez faire attitude. This is explained in Ab Aterno, where he pretty much gives his mission statement. He brings people to the island but does not direct them. They have to do what they have to do, he protects the candidates, but he cannot protect everyone.
I imagine this is why a lot of fans of the show on different forums, never totally bought Jacob as a good guy, but as the brother over at CHUD pointed out in one of his reviews. Being “good” and “goodness” are completely subjective things and you can see Jacob as not helping more people, but that’s never been his job. He wanted a replacement and he wanted progress, but he wanted the people to earn it.
“And if you’re gonna spend a whole episode on the origin of Jacob and the Man in Black, why would you still leave so much information out (like the Man in Black’s name?)”
The omission of Smokey’s name is apparently a shout out to a Stephen King novel, it may be the It or Dark Tower, where something is so evil that it does not deserve a name. That’s Smokey to his core. He believes in his SPECIALNESS to the point where it brings death, destruction, and misery for all that stand in his way. That bastard does not deserve a day.
His name aside, they did not omit that much information. Jacob and Smokey came from across the sea, one believed in technology, the other believed in people, and in the end one brother killed another by throwing him into the centre of all goodness and light on earth. What more do you want to know?
“And furthermore, I’m shocked and severely disappointed that the entire flash-sideways storyline was just an excuse to make the finale a half-assed reunion episode.”
I will put this bluntly and then explain. You are wrong and here’s why; they were not ready. They had to go to that place, they needed to find one another, but they had to go through what they went through in that universe to make themselves ready to move on.
One of the reviewers over at DarkUfo made a good point about everything on LOST being about progressing and how these characters kept moving forward. The sideways universe represented one last step they all had to take before they went on to the after life and this is why Jack had to have a son, because he was out of chance to experience something he always wanted. The same goes with Claire needing to have Aaron again because that helped her feel the most alive ever in her life.
I can go on but that sideways universe had to happen to get the characters we loved on this show ready to go to the hereafter. If that does not work for you, that does not work for you, but even death is a challenge for some and it was for the castaways, and they overcame it together. Live and Die Together so you don’t go to the hereafter alone.
Not trying to be a dick but IO and Geoff’s wife please help me out. Why is the island sunk in the sideways universe? If the protector makes the rules, how come Jack didn’t make it so that Locke couldn’t kill him? How could Hurley see dead people? Why not just let the island sink, that way it could not fall into evil hands. Why would Jacob going down into the glowing light be “worse than death” but Jack can go down there and be fine and if he wasn’t wounded he could have gotten out fine. Why did Juliet say “it worked”? It didn’t work. Why couldn’t babies be born on the island? Why was son much emphasis put on Walt and Aaron and it amounts to nothing? Jacob’s mom said she made it so Jacob and MIB could not “hurt” each other, specifically used “hurt” yet Jacob does hurt MIB? I could go on and on, there are a million holes in this show.
“Why is the island sunk in the sideways universe?”
Because the Island part of their lives had been resolved.
“If the protector makes the rules, how come Jack didn’t make it so that Locke couldn’t kill him?”
Locke couldn’t kill him, while the island was powered up. This was alluded to later with sawyer and the candy machine: reset it, and you get a free candy bar.
“How could Hurley see dead people?”
He’s schizophrenic. Remember, he got that power while institutionalized.
“Why not just let the island sink, that way it could not fall into evil hands.”
Jacob’s momma explained that — the light must never go out, because it’s the light that exists in souls around the world.
“Why would Jacob going down into the glowing light be “worse than death” but Jack can go down there and be fine and if he wasn’t wounded he could have gotten out fine.”
Jack had to give up his status as protector in order to do it. And what makes you so sure he would have gotten out fine if he hadn’t been wounded? He was walking around with those wounds just fine before.
“Why did Juliet say “it worked”? It didn’t work.”
If you mean the bomb, yes it did – it got them back to the correct timeline.
“Why couldn’t babies be born on the island?”
I’m not sure of this one.
“Why was son much emphasis put on Walt and Aaron and it amounts to nothing?”
Kid actors growing up too fast, maybe. But supposedly Walt’s story will continue on the DVD extras.
“Jacob’s mom said she made it so Jacob and MIB could not “hurt” each other, specifically used “hurt” yet Jacob does hurt MIB?”
He didn’t hurt him in any serious, effective way. It was like a reverse Obi-Wan “strike me down, I’ll become more powerful” deal.
“The protector of the island sets the rules.”
Why? And if this is true, couldn’t Jacob have done a hell of a lot more to stop the smoke monster from killing people?
And if you’re gonna spend a whole episode on the origin of Jacob and the Man in Black, why would you still leave so much information out (like the Man in Black’s name?)
And furthermore, I’m shocked and severely disappointed that the entire flash-sideways storyline was just an excuse to make the finale a half-assed reunion episode.
Posted by: a_loco at May 25, 2010 09:46 AM
Chrome is a real crappy browser. That’s why I had a repost of that post above and lost my big long answers that I will do again later tonight. Nevertheless, you cannot have children on the island because that would be involving the children in a war between Jacob and Smokey and I doubt Jacob wanted that to happen.
You also need to realize that the only two to have children or get pregnant on the island were candidates, and that could have been why Jacob gave them an exemption.
LYT thanks man I appreciate it but I still have more questions. First Jack said that denoating the H Bomb would make it so that the plane didn’t land. It was never mentioned by Jack that it would correct the timeline but make it that they never crashed. This is what they were working towards, so Juliet saying “It worked” could have only referenced the plane not crashing.
And if Jack gave up his status as protector then he was just like MIB when he got thrown in, so why did Jack not get turned into a smoke monster. See, this can be endless. They did not explain the mythology of the show adequately.
And they never explained the motivation behind lowering Desmond into the pit in the first place. I mean, its what smokey wanting to do and Jack just goes along with it. Jack has no plan and neither does Desmond. You could say that Jack wanted to turn smokey human, but there is no way he could have known that. Hell Jacob himself had no idea how to kill him. I guess that’s my biggest disappointment. We learn at the end of season 5 the big theme of the show is a battle between two supernatural beings where the survivors are just pawns on a chessboard for these two. But it turns out those two supernatural beings didn’t actually know anything more about the island than the survivors did.
Paul Dini who came up with the monster for the pilot ep and said in ’04 it was a Loch Ness creature and how you reacted to it was a reflection test, a physical Nietzsche/Abyss moment. When Dini left, it got changed partly out of cost because they never intended on showing the whole damn dino, but expectations had gotten out of control. So under Jeph Loeb, they dropped the physical monster for what was supposed to be a morphing alien lifeform drawn to the island by Dharma. When Loeb left for Heroes, the idea changed again, eventually settling on MIB.
Like so much else about this show, the storyline was heavily influenced by external events. To think this was Abrams master plan is foolish. Jack wasn’t even supposed to survive the pilot ep for godsakes. It’s not a coincidence that when Abrams and company started working on alternate timelines for the Trek movie that it overtook the storylines for Lost and Fringe.
“First Jack said that denoating the H Bomb would make it so that the plane didn’t land. It was never mentioned by Jack that it would correct the timeline but make it that they never crashed. This is what they were working towards, so Juliet saying “It worked” could have only referenced the plane not crashing.”
Bear in mind Juliet was already seeing the flash-sideways universe, as noted by her final comment about getting a cup of coffee, that didn’t make sense until the final episode. So like the viewers, she was seeing a world off the island, not knowing yet that it was the afterlife.
“And if Jack gave up his status as protector then he was just like MIB when he got thrown in, so why did Jack not get turned into a smoke monster.”
He wasn’t just like MIB. MIB was protected by the rules set in place by mom, and made more powerful by the fact that Jacob tried to violate them. Jack wasn’t.
As to what they wanted to achieve with Desmond…someone who’s actually seen some of the episodes more than once might be better qualified to field that one.
Here are now my answers to Monco’s first post filed of questions.
“Why is the island sunk in the sideways universe?”
The island is sunk because the castaways have lost the most important thing in their lives by not crashing on that island, and that’s why it’s sunk.
“If the protector makes the rules, how come Jack didn’t make it so that Locke couldn’t kill him?”
Jack had one job to do and that job was killing Smokey. He did his job. Jack also did not seem to be into making the rules and that’s why Hurley taking over is pretty cool, because we all know Hurley and Ben are not going to do things in the way they used to be done.
“How could Hurley see dead people?”
He’s special like Walt is special, like Smokey was special, and like some of the other candidates are special such as James and everyone else who saw Jacob. It’s not schizophrenia. It’s most likely has something to do with the island being the centre of all life and certain people being tuned into seeing spirits and what not.
“Why not just let the island sink, that way it could not fall into evil hands.”
Evil still wins if you let the island sink. It’s the center of all life. Having the center of all life sitting at the bottom of the ocean is not a good thing.
“Why would Jacob going down into the glowing light be ‘worse than death’ but Jack can go down there and be fine and if he wasn’t wounded he could have gotten out fine.”
Jack did not go into the light. He just plugged it back in. There’s a difference and the difference is only Desmond can handle those levels of electromagnetism.
“Why did Juliet say ‘it worked’? It didn’t work.”
Replugging in the machine to get the free candy bar worked and that’s what she was referring too.
“Why couldn’t babies be born on the island?”
“Why was son much emphasis put on Walt and Aaron and it amounts to nothing?”
Aaron’s birth represents the biggest moment in his mother’s and adoptive mother’s lives. He amounts to a lot.
Walt represents the writers not realizing what kind of show they had. Once Carlton and Damon really got it together during season three, Walt became less important but here is my own answer to Walt; he’s the replacement for Hurley.
“Jacob’s mom said she made it so Jacob and MIB could not ‘hurt’ each other, specifically used ‘hurt’ yet Jacob does hurt MIB?”
Jacob kicked his brothers ass then threw him into the center of all life on the planet. That’s what it reads and not hurting him. There is a different but now we are arguing semantics.
Now his second post with questions.
“First Jack said that denoating the H Bomb would make it so that the plane didn’t land. It was never mentioned by Jack that it would correct the timeline but make it that they never crashed. This is what they were working towards, so Juliet saying ‘It worked’ could have only referenced the plane not crashing.”
First off Daniel Faraday spent his whole life figuring out what that H-bomb could do to the timeline. He unfortunately was wrong about altering the timeline but he may have been right about using that energy to create the way station.
Second, no, Juliette was moments away from death and she crossed over to the way station to the scene in the finale. Again, that’s the answer, if you do not like the answer, feel free to disagree, but it’s still the answer.
“And if Jack gave up his status as protector then he was just like MIB when he got thrown in, so why did Jack not get turned into a smoke monster. See, this can be endless. They did not explain the mythology of the show adequately.”
No they did explain it. MIB went into that hole, touched that energy, and it changed him. Jack plugged the cork back, pushed back malevolence, and it pushed him into the same spot. That’s what happened. They explained everything that’s important more than adequately but some people either refused to accept those answers or did not pick up on them.
“And they never explained the motivation behind lowering Desmond into the pit in the first place. I mean, its what smokey wanting to do and Jack just goes along with it.”
No, it’s what Jacob wanted to do. Jacob, for all his faults, had some sense to him. He obviously figured out that only Desmond could unplug the island and that could kill his brother. His brother, being vain enough, bought into his plan being THE PLAN, and his vanity killed him in the end.
“Jack has no plan and neither does Desmond.”
Jack had one plan and that’s to kill Smokey. Desmond had a plan to go over to the way station.
“You could say that Jack wanted to turn smokey human, but there is no way he could have known that.”
No, there’s no way Jack could have known but some times you take a leap of faith. That’s how it work and Jack believed and he saved the day.
“Hell Jacob himself had no idea how to kill him.”
I disagree.
”
I guess that’s my biggest disappointment. We learn at the end of season 5 the big theme of the show is a battle between two supernatural beings where the survivors are just pawns on a chessboard for these two.”
That’s the thing. They are not pawns, they were never pawns, because Jacob let them decide. He let them be and when the time came, they came to him. That’s not a chessboard.
“But it turns out those two supernatural beings didn’t actually know anything more about the island than the survivors did.”
That’s also the point. Jacob and his brother were just guys who got dragged into the middle of all of this by a deranged woman and literally spent thousands of years at one another’s throats. If anything, they were the pawns in the chess match, and Jacob finally found the right people to break the pattern.
We can disagree about the show and it’s quality but the show did answer these questions. It just seems that some fans had a hard time either accepting the answers given to them or simply did not pick up on the answers the first go round. This does not make them stupid or idiotic or anything, but it’s always weird when people complain about not getting an answer to questions, that had episodes worth of answers.
I must be a grumpy old man because reading all this is just dizzying. I’ll have to stick with Justified’s straight forward Man in Hat shoots Hillbillys formula.
All of thos answers are pretty good, IOV2, but on the Walt tip: A big reason, as Darlton have stated, is that the kid playing Walt, by the end of the first season, was going through puberty and growing crazily and he could no longer play a convincing ten year old or whatever it was. They had plans for Walt but nature took it’s course.
I’m down with what IO is saying, totally. And not trying to start an argument, but there’s some holes that were just glossed over. Some things that have been bugging me since I caught the finale are:
– Why was Farrady and Charlotte and Farraday’s mom in the sideways world when it was created by Hurley for his friends?? Where was Libby (Hurley’s love of his life. Was she there, I can’t remember).
Why was Driveshaft there as well?
Further, if you’re going to throw tertiary characters like Driveshaft in there, where were Miles, Richard and Lupitas? Seemed sloppy.
Don – who says it was created by Hurley? That’s one theory, but never explicitly endorsed by the show.
Driveshaft never even spoke a word, so it would be easy to assume they aren’t actually the real band members, but phantoms like Jack’s son.
As for Richard, the most important time of his life was with his dead lady love, who drove him to wish for immortality. That would be his afterlife.
Miles was there, wasn’t he? Lapides probably just wasn’t on the island long enough — two short stretches with a long time off in between.
HEY POLAND IT’S LEX
Where’s the American Idol Finale thread?
ORIANTHI POWER. DANE COOK POWER. ALICE COOPER POWER. DIDI PUNANI POWER. BRET MICHAELS UP AND AROUND BEING AWWWWWWWWESOME.
And JOHN MOTHERFUCKING OATES.
Barely watched this season, esp after DIDI got the axe, but at least that HORRIBLE GRANOLA TWOP HEN INDIGO GIRL WANNABE BAD-TEETH CRUNCHSTRESS SINGLE MOM LOST.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA That’s what you GET for trying to shame your sadsack boyfriend into proposing on the air.
Orianthi is SO DREAMY.
http://scifiwire.com/2010/05/dude-it-turns-out-losts-c.php
In other words, they hit a reset every time the writing staff changed. Dini leaves. Reset. Loeb leaves. Reset. etc…etc…Geoff’s wife is correct to say aspects are mutually exclusive, it’s just the writers had a different intention for it.
What Lindeof is being cute about is the same thing Fox did on Kimmel. They both mentioned knowing where the show ends, not how, meaning all that was planned was ending the show on Jack’s closing eye.
This is the exact same thing that happened to the X-Files. Chris Carter relied on James Morgan and Glenn Wong to create the alien mythology, but once they had a falling out and Morgan/Wong left to do Final Destination and whatnot, Carter tried to reset the mythos after the movie. Abrams ran into the same problem when Loeb split, but JJ was lucky in that Lost’s narrative had such little structure anyone could fuck with it and some people would just accept the new premise.
It’s pretty obvious in retrospect that these guys are all opportunists who know that they can get lots of viewers by inserting a lot of meaningless, perplexing clues without every having to tie them together until the very last minute by just having it be a robot who goes back in time for some reason and whose best friend is a talking pie.
It’s not about long-term, big-scale art and personal expression. The good aspects of Lost were always the individual, small-scale performances and storylines. The big-scale mythology of it was always meaningless bullshit with no real design, just like X-Files.
For those that axed about Holloway and Marvel…
http://avengersnews.com/2010/05/31/josh-holloway-found-by-marvel-studios/
This is actually the third time they’ve approached him, the previous two were for Gambit in X3 and Wolverine.
I’m betting this offer is to take over Ghost Rider or Deadpool since Reynolds is now GL for DC. It would be a nice irony since Reynolds only ended up as Gambit because ABC wouldn’t give Holloway time from Lost.
Martin, Let me give you a little business tip. The word is ASK, not “axe.” ASK.
Fer Reelz?! Wow! You mean “kewl” aint right either?!
Oh, Thank you Don for the bizness tipz! UR sooper!