April 23, 2024
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It shows how out of it I was in trying to be in it, acknowledging that I was out of it to myself, and then thinking, “Okay, how do I stop being out of it? Well, I get some legitimate illogical narrative ideas” — some novel, you know?
So I decided on three writers that I might be able to option their material and get some producer, or myself as producer, and then get some writer to do a screenplay on it, and maybe make a movie.
And so the three projects were “Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep,” “Naked Lunch” and a collection of Bukowski. Which, in 1975, forget it — I mean, that was nuts. Hollywood would not touch any of that, but I was looking for something commercial, and I thought that all of these things were coming.
There would be no Blade Runner if there was no Ray Bradbury. I couldn’t find Philip K. Dick. His agent didn’t even know where he was. And so I gave up.
I was walking down the street and I ran into Bradbury — he directed a play that I was going to do as an actor, so we know each other, but he yelled “hi” — and I’d forgot who he was.
So at my girlfriend Barbara Hershey’s urging — I was with her at that moment — she said, “Talk to him! That guy really wants to talk to you,” and I said “No, fuck him,” and keep walking.
But then I did, and then I realized who it was, and I thought, “Wait, he’s in that realm, maybe he knows Philip K. Dick.” I said, “You know a guy named—” “Yeah, sure — you want his phone number?”
My friend paid my rent for a year while I wrote, because it turned out we couldn’t get a writer. My friends kept on me about, well, if you can’t get a writer, then you write.”
~ Hampton Fancher
“That was the most disappointing thing to me in how this thing was played. Is that I’m on the phone with you now, after all that’s been said, and the fundamental distinction between what James is dealing with in these other cases is not actually brought to the fore. The fundamental difference is that James Franco didn’t seek to use his position to have sex with anyone. There’s not a case of that. He wasn’t using his position or status to try to solicit a sexual favor from anyone. If he had — if that were what the accusation involved — the show would not have gone on. We would have folded up shop and we would have not completed the show. Because then it would have been the same as Harvey Weinstein, or Les Moonves, or any of these cases that are fundamental to this new paradigm. Did you not notice that? Why did you not notice that? Is that not something notable to say, journalistically? Because nobody could find the voice to say it. I’m not just being rhetorical. Why is it that you and the other critics, none of you could find the voice to say, “You know, it’s not this, it’s that”? Because — let me go on and speak further to this. If you go back to the L.A. Times piece, that’s what it lacked. That’s what they were not able to deliver. The one example in the five that involved an issue of a sexual act was between James and a woman he was dating, who he was not working with. There was no professional dynamic in any capacity.
~ David Simon
Saw the trailer for Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows in front of Inception at the Imax, and it occurred to me that this series may be remembered as one of the great fantasy epics. And I find this odd because I’ve always found the films to be solid but nowhere near fantastic, and half attributed their success to the popularity of the books. The trailer for the finale suggests that perhaps the climax will reach greatness. I wonder what the studio will do with the property after the film series.
Second viewing of Inception = more satisfying than the first. Whatever your personal reading of the film, it can’t be denied that everyone is firing on all cylinders. Extremely curious to see what Wally Pfister does with Bat3. And props to Cillian Murphy- JGL and Tom Hardy seem to be getting the ‘breakout star’ accolades, but damn is this guy good.
“I’m the electrician. I came to fix a fuse.”
http://mutinycompany.com/unimaginative/goodexcuse.jpg
AE I seriously disagree with you. All of those films are fantastic in their own right. Oddly enough, the people who I have read that share your opinion, are all fans of the book who want the movies to be more of the books and have a real problem with Emma Watson’s beauty. Seriously, that just annoys them.
Nevertheless, I get your point but I love those films and those characters on such a profound level that any hates towards them always leaves me a bit perplex, because it rarely gets as good in fantasy as Potter, and the last 4 Potter films have just been fantastic, but apparently not everyone agrees. C’Est La Vie.
I unabashedly love the Harry Potter series. I think all of them are fantastic (apart from the first two). I can totally see what it is that makes many people dislike them, but they just work for me on a level I can’t quite explain.
And I really don’t like the books at all. Gave up after the third one.
My beef with the Harry Potter series is the obvious artificial padding that comes as a result of Rowling’s imposed format – each book spans one school year, the series spans his high school days.
The result is flurries of activity where they “solve” a crucial problem and make rapid advancement in a matter of hours… and then you turn the page (as it were) and read “months passed and Harry was busy with classes…” (or words to that effect). You KNOW Harry and pals aren’t going to solve the current mystery until the end of the year, just like you know Harry isn’t going to finally face down Voldemort until he’s about to graduate.
Chamber of Secrets and Prisoner of Azkaban can be thrown out completely. Goblet of Fire can stay, Order of the Phoenix can go, Half-blood Prince and Deathly Hallows can be merged by the simple expedient of decreasing the number of Horcruxes from seven to one. Bam – three act narrative. You’d never be able to do that now without millions of fans revolting, but those intermediary arcs aren’t crucial (no matter what Sirius devotees say – Dumbledore’s death is EASILY a substitute in an abridged narrative). The only real purpose they serve is so JK Rowling can make moneyhats.
Wow… IOV2 and I agree on a ‘genre’ series…. the healing magic of Hogwarts indeed. Point being, sure the first couple films were (comparatively) outclassed by the Lord of the Rings, but the sheer consistent quality of this insanely long-running series has been a sight to behold. For all the hub-bub about soulless franchise filmmaking, the Harry Potter series has always been first and foremost a character-driven franchise, rooted in richly growing young characters anchored by splendid work by some of Britain’s best character actors around. For what it’s worth, who honestly thought that Alan Rickman would end up with a role even more iconic than Hans Gruber? Not every film was great, but every film was at least very good. Seeing the trailer to the finale almost gave me a lump in my throat. The Harry Potter series may very well end up being the ‘movie event of our generation’.
Scott, very good points all around.
Foamy, I agree with you about the padding but every book fan that I have ever come across just goes off on you if you do not love that padding. Apparently, the padding to them, is the wonderful marshmellow fluff of that story and they want more of it in the films, and when the films exclude that fluff. Boy howdy, do they get pissy. Seriously, epic level pissiness and that’s why I have avoided getting in discussions about the Harry Potter films with book fans.
Re: fantasy is hard to pull of. Willow? I sorta like it but it’s still bad.
There are a lot of other examples, but the fact that they have done it successfully once rather than 6 times thus far is impressive as hell. The Columbus movies are meh, but the rest have all been good. Goblet of Fire being my favorite as I found it to be immensely exciting.
Different topic. I am writing what comes down to a “research essay” for school, and it has to explore 2 sides of an issue. any issue. I foolishly chose 3D movies.
Now, while I have found TONS of articles and resources against 3D movies, I have (predictably) found very little in defense, aside from a few blog entries. And I can’t use blogs.
I now I can find defense or positive opinions on it in the James Cameron bio, and other interviews with him. But I can’t just use him or all filmmakers, really. or studios who like the grosses they believe are in part due to 3d. I need something that will offer an examination of why some people do like it.
Any thoughts?? Or am I, as my father likes to say, “pissing up a rope” here??
http://money.cnn.com/2010/07/27/technology/3D_technology_dying.fortune/
It would seem that no one really likes it Will and hopefully this is some what helpful. My favourite part of this entire piece. This right here; “While 3-D tickets accounted for 82% of the box-office revenue for Avatar when it was released in December…” DA WINAH… ME! 😀 (That’s me smiling and being silly about this in case you are missing it.)
Thanks, IO. I appreciate it.
I think some people DO like it. It’s just that NOBODY likes it all the time. I enjoy seeing 3D movies, but I don’t go and see all of them.
People go to them. Maybe they go just because they have to to see THAT movie. But if somebody hates it they won’t go at all. So people go, so therefore some people must like it. What do people feel they get out of it?
It’s gonna be tough to support the “like 3D” side with real genuine material. But I got plenty of time still.
Seriously, thank you for taking the time to find that for some schmuck on the internet.
Not breaking news to anybody perusing Movie City News, but Maury Chaykin died:
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/manitoba/story/2010/07/27/maury-chaykin-obit.html
No problem Will. Ebert RTed someone’s tweet about that (future sentences, YAY!) and it seemed to fit some sort of parameter of what you were asking for even if it stated a number about Avatar that would give Poland a headache. If that’s a true number and freaking Dragon did what it did at a low percentage. Wow. Dragon ruled.
Now onto liking 3D. I like it when it’s good. When you get post conversion bs or when people put their FX in 3D, that’s bogus but when you get stuff made in freakin 3D. It’s a tremendous experiment. Absolutely tremendous.
Of course every film coming out next year has it’s FX in 3D and few of them are shot in TRUE 3D and that’s a problem. It’s a problem that will indeed kill 3D.
I agree, IO. I have avoided post-conversion 3D like the plague. And the fact that Harry Potter is being converted scares me. My wife, a Potter fan, was angry when she heard. Even though Titans and Airbender made some money, the complaints over the quality of the 3D were loud enough and so wide-spread why are studios not listening? That, too, is going to kill the goose.
Dragon was terrific, and the 3D was well-done. But everything doesn’t have to be 3D. Cats and fucking Dogs 2?? It’s like the 3D was the excuse to make the sequel. What will Green Hornet gain by being 3D???
I sorta look forward to Piranha 3D because it looks like it has a grip on what will make it cheesy fun in 3D. But even a supporter of 3D like me has been yawning at it whereas before I was excited, because it was few and far between.
I will say i take my girls to see Nightmare Before Christmas in post conversion every Halloween. It’s an enjoyable time, and it’s watchable.
Will, Piranha, I believe, is shot in 3D, so it should be at least cool on that level. The post conversion stuff works well for animation not live action. What they, the people in charge have decided to do, is make the FX 3D in an attempt to make the post conversion not suck. Again, I get why they are doing this, especially with films like Potter, GL, and the Marvel films coming next year, because it’s a hell of a cash grab but cash grabs have a tendency to piss people off and in the end, that will kill 3D. Which sucks for box office grosses and stuff but you know, that’s the way the cookie crumbles from time to time.
Long, boring, teacher-y stuff on essay writing coming – Lex feel free to complain, and it’s probably waaaay basic for 99% of hotbloggers…
Write to your audience
Easily the best way to pick up brownie points from teachers. You wouldn’t write the same way for your parents as you would do for a blog, and the same is true for teachers/profs – they’ll each have their own type of style that they like. Pay attention during classes to how they present their own material and then copy that style – if in doubt, have a chat to them and say “Hey, I’m not confident with my writing skills – can you give me a ‘test run’ on a different topic so I can get some feedback?” That’ll probably up your grade by 5% by itself, and it’s MUCH better than assuming they use the same style as the person you had last year… and then getting a “C- See Me” on your report.
Structure, structure, structure
If you’re anything like me, you’ll have heard how this is important… and no-one will have explained how to DO it. Put simply – it’s going through the problem step by step and breaking each part down so that you don’t miss anything.
For example, “Are 3D movies good?” can be broken down to economic impact and artistic impact, artistic impact can be broken down to storytelling benefits and immersion benefits and so on. By going through each of these one-by-one (and breaking them down further if necessary) you can demonstrate that you’ve covered everything, and that each stage is solidly supported by everything under it, leading to the final “This is what I think” conclusion.
Deductive vs. Inductive Reasoning
There’s generally three ways of reaching a conclusion – Deductive, Inductive and Insight. Insight is suddenly seeing the problem in a new light and having a flash of inspiration… and generally should be avoided in writing since you can’t take your audience with you on the jump.
Deductive Reasoning is boring old logic – “Men are mortal, I am a man, therefore I am mortal.” I’d recommend using this if you’re going to touch on economic effects. Use a model like the McKinsey 5 C’s and focus on “4. Creating New Demand” (which is probably what the studios wanted, and is backfiring with the crappy conversions), vs. “3. Capturing Customer Surplus” (offering those people who are prepared to extra a version where they can do so, which tends to be how IMAX works).
Be careful not to leave any steps out in the logic, no matter how obvious you might think they are. The easier it is for other people to follow your train of thought, the more powerful the writing becomes.
Inductive Reasoning is like the old Sherlock Holmes adage – “If you eliminate all the impossible answers, the remaining answer – however improbable – must be the correct one”. You look at a whole bunch of stuff and say “The *most likely* solution that covers all these cases is X”. It’s not as powerful as deductive reasoning, because there’s likely to be exceptions, but if you can’t directly see a cause/effect it’s the most useful tool you can use.
I’d recommend using an inductive approach for the artistic side – looking at interviews from James Cameron, Peter Jackson, John Lasseter and Ed Catmull. Maybe George Lucas, but he’s got a fair bit of emotional baggage so it makes it hard to be objective. Look for people who have specifically avoided 3D too – there’s been several announcements at Comic-Con over the weekend where the creators were rather proud that their film is going to be 2D-only.
Make sure not to use an Appeal to Authority fallacy – that is, because these people are successful then they must be correct. If your teacher/prof is any good they’ll pull you up if you do that, so have a variety of comments and then use the old “on balance, it appears that the majority support Y” to summarize.
That’s probably not as good as actual links, but it should hopefully make for a decent grade.
Good stuff, Foamy. Thanks so much for taking the time. I cut and pasted into a word doc.
I truly appreciate it.
Will: To add to Foamy’s instructive advice… I have posted this a coupe of times before over the years, but just in case you missed it…
http://movingpictureblog.blogspot.com/2007/07/morality-is-always-issue-when-such.html
Foamy that was excellent, took me right back to highschool! (i loved writing essays and sadly miss it terribly).
Speaking of highschool, i disagree that the Potter series could’ve (and should’ve) been broken down into a three arc story. Like Lost, i’d argue that the point of the series wasn’t what the main focal point points of killing Voldemorte/getting off the island, but rather the characters truly coming together and finding a modicum of peace in the concept of ‘nobody does it alone’.
As for the quality of the series (yes i do love the books), i find them to be exceedingly well made from 3 onwards. Everyone is bringing an A game, and it’s obvious. Little miss Watson is at times quite beautiful. However, the films evaporate from my mind, whilst the books remain. It certainly may simply be the fact that my imagination has filled all the gaps when it comes to the series and as such i treat them as a secondary popcorn entertainment. but i didn’t have the same problem with LOTR. Perhaps it’s that the vision on screen doesn’t jive so well with my own, but I have (sadly) not connected on a gut level with any of them. I’m hoping that watching the series back to back may rectify this, we’ll see.
Finally, booked Toy Story 3 at the imax. To my surprise they handed out the 3d glasses when i got there. My gut-immediate-reaction, despite knowing that this was pixar, was dissapointment. Telling?
* The 3D was fine btw. Not great, not necessary, but fine. Also, i’m consistently finding that Imax is my favorite filmgoing experience currently, for two reasons:
A) Screen’s not bad
B) much more importantly, it feels like an event. And the kicker is, seemingly for everyone else too! Nary a whisper or a cellphone light in the theatre, and even after the first two weeks of shows it was still packed! (re-Inception)
I honestly think this justifies the extra expense
I’d agree that the point of the series wasn’t the Voldemort face-off – the whole schtick with Harry having to find out about his role is testament to that – but it does feel stretched. The series is lucky enough to have interesting enough source-material and sure enough directing to cover for much of this, but if it weren’t for the books you’d probably have to attack it with an editing knife.
It’s one of the reasons I believe Universal got hosed when they picked up the Wheel of Time – it’s 10,000 pages of soap opera, half of which is internal monologue of around two dozen characters. It’s nigh-impossible to make that material cohesive for newcomers without pissing the fans of with the editing knife. God knows Cuaron got enough criticism from Potter fans for Azkaban.
Regarding Columbus vs. later Potter films, I think it actually kinda works when you think about how the books themselves evolve. They were intended to mature just as their audience does, changing from lighthearted fantasy where all the adventures are solved in time for dinner, to some very dark and mature storytelling. Columbus exemplifies that lighthearted start, and while possibly less satisfying from an adult perspective are an excellent entry for kids to experience the entire journey.
Uh-oh…
Oliver Stone is in trouble.
http://www.thewrap.com/media/column-post/exclusive-haim-saban-stone-should-join-mel-gibson-retirement-19614
Haim Saban to CBS: Cancel Oliver Stone’s Showtime Series
Saban said he considers Stone to be “clearly an anti-Semite and an anti-American.”
_________
Uh-oh…
Oliver Stone is in trouble.
http://www.thewrap.com/media/column-post/exclusive-haim-saban-stone-should-join-mel-gibson-retirement-19614
Haim Saban to CBS: Cancel Oliver Stone’s Showtime Series
Hey no hijacking the Harry Potter discussion!
Why cancel the show? It will fit right in with Showtime’s seemingly non-stop airings of An American Carol and Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed.
To be fair, re: Stone’s “Hitler did more damage to Russia” comments:
US deaths WW2 – 420k
UK deaths WW2 – 450k
Jewish Holocaust deaths WW2 – 6million
Soviet deaths WW2 – 26.6million
Yes but that was not the extent of his remarks.
True, but while the various Anti Defamation Leagues etc. seem to be annoyed with his “Jews control the media” comments, Waxman seems intent on referring to his “controversial remarks about the Holocaust” instead.
Hell, Eddie Izzard pointed out the Hitler/Stalin thing years ago – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siBX0i1EIWk
I find it funny that Stone would make a declaration about the Jews controlling the media… to, well, the media
I do agree with you Foamy about the evolution from light to mature in the Potter saga; I remember being bored by the first two at their release, and surprise at being charmed so thoroughly by Cuaron’s Azkaban. Can’t comment as to the editing knife thing because I honestly can’t remember any of the films so well, despite having seen them all. Like I said I look forward to revisiting the lot in order to see what happens. But I will say that the very element which makes these literary properties so successful in the first place- the fact that they pull the reader in an engrossing and rich fantasy escapeland that is so intricate that it feels real- is the one thing that can bog a film down (see Watchmen?). The Potters seem to walk that fine line of being films whilst still recalling a good deal of ‘extraneous’ material from the books, so I’m not sure that they could/should’ve cut out any of the fat you refer to.
The 3d conversion on Inception was surprisingly good, specially on the buildings collapsing and the elevator scene.
Stone said his comments to a London newspaper when he was recently in the U.K. While he didn’t specifically specify, I’m guessing he was referring to the American media.
What I find funny is that if his comments scuttle Fox’s Wall Street 2, it will be because of on an interview in The Sunday Times, a News Corp. owned newspaper.
I’m sure other studios are watching Marvel’s Avengers model and trying to figure out a similair type of franchise series. If I was Warners instead of going the JLA route, I would try to get Rowling’s permission to expand the world of Hogwarts. The Potter fans I know seem to be less interested in the narrative than they are in the details of the world. Fashion new charecters, keep the school, history, and the Quidditch and just keep going.
And on an unrelated note, I can’t seem to escape that GodDamn ‘This Afternoon’ song. Whenever I hear Nickelback I always imagine Deidrich Bader’s character from Office Space somehow entered the real world and formed a band.
To me, the fundamental difference between the Potter novels and the Potter movies is that despite the point of view issues, the books made it clear that the Harry/Voldemort struggle was just one part of a war between good and evil that spanned decades. The movies dropped that context to focus more on Harry — arguably a correct choice, but when novel fans crush the PoA movie it’s because losing that context makes the entire story rather pointless and somewhat confusing.
As for Watson, Hermione got canonically prettier in GoF so that’s a dumb argument.
Heh, Haim Saban has posted a gem of a blog at The Huffington Post.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/haim-saban/shame-on-oliver-stone_b_662132.html
Shame on Oliver Stone
“Oliver Stone should be given a helping hand — indeed, a vigorous shove — into the land of forced retirement. There, in the professional wilderness where he belongs, standing on a splintered soapbox right next to Mel Gibson’s, he can preach his anti-Americanism and anti-Semitism into the wind.
Anyone who works with this guy should be ashamed of himself/herself, and shouldn’t share this distasteful fact with their neighbors — and especially their kids.”
Jeremy, Prisoner works just fine for a lot of people. I would dare put out there, that Prisoner remains the favourite film for a lot of Potter fans. So, yeah, figure that one out.
AE, no offense but that’s why I have a problem with book fans. They just seemingly refuse to accept something else, accept that it’s an adaptation, and that they are tremendous adaptations. They get to the heart of the story, which is not always about Voldemort vs Harry, but this world under seige by it’s past, and how it’s up the future to save it. That’s how I took it anyway, but books fan are just too literal, and once you go down that road. It’s a no win situation with them.
It’s a “Yeah figure that one out” in a whole “Hey, if this confuses the book why is the film so beloved?” sort of way.
For me, the only great “Potter” movie has been “Goblet of Fire.” It’s the only one that had some subtext beyond a slavish adherence to the plot of the book. After that, and as shocked as I am to say this, only Chris Columbus’s movies didn’t feel like disjointed snoozers. I found the last two films interminable (especially “Half-Blood Prince”), and the degree to which Yates and company bonered Dumbledore’s death scene was depressing. I’m skeptical of how the “Hallows” split will turn out.
You may be right IO, I wouldn’t know. Haven’t ever had a conversation with a slavish book Potter fan (don’t consider myself one of them). I loved the books and consider them modern classics in the genre, but i’m not precious about them.
My question is, if the films had been original material would you/anyone consider them masterpieces? I’m genuinely curious.
As adaptations i do think you’re right in saying that they’re extremely successful, and in fact so much so that every other following imitation (golden compass, narnia, percy jackson, etc) failed more or less miserably. My point is, basically, that i am in no way attacking the series. I respect it more than I love it, and that’s a shame for me.
I’ll look for the underlying subtext of new wizarding world saving the new one in future viewings. I do maintain that I think the main theme of the series was love and strength in togetherness- we’ll know whether or not the films play on that with the final two installments.
I think some (myself included) enjoyed Azkaban because it was the first step up into maturity. Watson was worthy of a hearty YEP YEP (G, Lex) in the most recent installment.
On the topic of Oliver Stone: anyone think his career is over?and if so, isn’t it ironic that it coincides with Polanski getting a renaissance, all things considered?
Anybody know what’s happening with The Beaver?
I second Azkaban…Cuaron gave it a maturity and emotion that was missing for me in the Columbus ones. And also I believe he was not slavish at all to the books and took liberties.
Third on “Azkaban,” the only one of the movies (so far) that is truly great.
And what’s so surprising about Stone complaining to “the media” (there is no such monolithic thing) about “the media?” In “South of the Border,” he repeatedly complains about “the media,” but when he needs evidence to back up his claims he, of course, uses the New York Times, the Associated Press, etc. “The media,” in other words.
“After that, and as shocked as I am to say this, only Chris Columbus’s movies didn’t feel like disjointed snoozers.”
Hmm, I have never been able to make it through the first one in a single sitting without falling asleep.
Count me as another Azkaban fan. I enjoyed the last one as well, which I can’t even recall the name of all of a sudden… so I guess that shows what a dedicated Potter fan I am.
Refer to me as a contrarian but if Cuaron did not direct the Prisoner of Azkaban, it would not get as much love as it does. It’s not that I dislike the film but it’s no where near as good as three films. Seriously, get on board the YATES EXPRESS PEOPLE! COME ON! LET’S GO! TOOT TOOT!
AE, yes I would because I have not read all of the Potter books and technically the movies are original to me as a viewer.
I’ve read all the books and liked them, but I’m hardly a “book person” as it were. I guess the last couple of movies have just seemed robbed of urgency and immediacy.
An ENTIRE BYOB only about Harry Potter? Something I’ve never seen a single movie of or read a single book?
I hereby nominate this as the single worst BYOB *ever* on MCN, especially since it’s falling within a stretch where Poland’s mostly MIA and there aren’t any other cool topics going to make up for it.
LexG is secretly one of those people who talks about movies while never actually watching them.
😉
I don’t watch Harry Potter because I’m not 12 and I’m not gay.
Shame, too, since Emma Watson is hot as August balls but since she only does this bullshit, I’ve never seen her anywhere but interviews.
Have to admit: Never have read any of the Harry Potter the books. And after viewing the first film, I shrugged my shoulders and said, “Meh. Not bad, but not my cup of tea.” So i haven’t seen another one. Not saying there’s anything wrong with the folks who live and die for this stuff. I watched Breathless again today, and as much as I enjoyed it, I can easily understand an intelligent person watching it for the first time and responding: “So what?” Different strokes, and all that.
“if Cuaron did not direct the Prisoner of Azkaban, it would not get as much love as it does.”
What’s so contrarian about that?
John Williams stopped composing Harry Potter scores after 3 so all I could pay attention to was how non-Williamsian the music was…oh well.
For the record, Azkaban is one of Williams’ best and most original scores of his recent ones.
I always suspected Ebert was 12 and gay…
Lex, why do you hate 12-year-old homosexuals so much?
Azkaban is my favorite also. Columbus’s films are fluffy and kind of inconsequential, and 4-6 have been increasingly bogged down in details and story points that I’m sure were clearer in the books.
william’s sublime score makes me want to cry every time (and that talon on the water…), this movement is sheer beauty:
(not a good quality clip tho, for some reason the good one was removed from ‘the tube’)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3rZKjgnLqk&feature=related
azkaban is a fantastic movie and perhaps the only one of the HP flicks that works as a stand-alone piece, directed with such energy, swirling dark intensity, good humour and pathos in his multitudinous shades of green — a stunning achievement by cuaron and one my all time faves (is that what my hair looks like from the back?)
I’ve seen all of these Potter movies. Like them well enough but if I never finished the series I wouldn’t be disappointed either. I never get the super love for Cuaron’s…it’s good to be sure, but it doesn’t seem THAT much better or worse than any of the others. Well, maybe way better than the first but even the second seems about the same as, say, the 4th as far as I’m concerned.
Joe, that’s just weird. You saw one movie, you review films for Variety or did at some point, and you never went back to the biggest cinematic event of an entire generation? Really? Again, Breathless is good cinema but at some point, don’t you want to know what’s happening in the present?
Jeff, for the reasons you dislike 4-6, that’s why I love them. I love that they are longer and more in depth, and that the Deathly Hallows is split in two to put even more detail into that film. Makes me sort of giddy.
It’s also not that I hate Azkaban, I dig it and could watch it easier than Philoscer Stone or Chamber, but I just dig Goblet forward a lot more. Order of Phoenix remains my favourite because of the awesomeness of LUNA LOVEGOOD!
Lexy, baby, come on now. Come on.
IO, what generation are we talking about? Yours? No offense, but if you took a vote, you’d find at least five or ten other movies (or groups of movies) more likely to be considered “the biggest cinematic event of an entire generation.” And while I know this will be a lance to your heart, the movie about the blue people would almost certainly score a lot closer to the No. 1 spot.
Shit, I hope HARRY POTTER wasn’t the event of this generation, because I see 120 movies a year and aim to write about film and pop culture, but I never saw a Harry Potter movie and never had any interest in it.
Joe: You mean THE GOOD Breathless, I hope? GERE AND KAPRISKY ONLY, PLEASE.
No, LexG, the better Breathless. The one that people are still looking at 50 years later. (Though I have to admit: I actually did quite like the “remake.” One of Gere’s finest performances. And I loved the throwaway reference to “Johnny Goddard.”)
Joe, sorry, but when you have a movie make 82 percent of it’s gross from 3D (sorry but I am going to use that from time to time given the right situation), you are not that close to NUMBER 1. Seriously man, it’s Harry Potter. It’s not like it’s some lame indie you see at least 10 times a year in various creation. It’s Harry Potter. The fact that you even think the Na’Vi are a movie event for a generation, sort of ignores a lot, and ignores that this is HARRY POTTER. Seriously, it will go Star Wars, Harry Potter, and LOTR. Did you see LOTR? If so, why not Harry Potter?
Oh yeah, I am a Star Wars mark til the very end, but it could one day easily be Harry first. Ignoring that, bringing up Avatar, and just ignoring these films, is so very very bizarre to me. The fact that you are in line with the guy who there who does not like the original BREATHLESS (Dude, so lame) states a lot in my mind.
Okay. I will admit. I may be wrong, because THIS IS FRAKKIN AWESOME!
http://www.aintitcool.com/node/45950
Oh, so now there’s a new biggest cinematic event for an entire generation? LOL.
That’s BIGGESTER to you!
You guys are about as fun as neutral coloured crayons. Carry on.
I can’t imagine a more perfect fit for THOR than Branagh. Superhero Shakespeare!
IO: Once again — and I’m asking you with equal measures of respect and good will — what generation are you talking about? In the ten years I’ve been teaching film studies courses at University of Houston and Houston Community College, I have never ever had a student ask me: Professor Leydon, what do you think of the new Harry Potter movie? And, mind you, I’ve had them ask me about everything from Snakes on a Plane to Inception. Yes, I know: That’s just anecdotal evidence. Well, here’s some more: My 23-year old son — who, much to my surprise, tells me he and many of his friends are chomping at the bit to see The Expendables — has never seen a Harry Potter movie, and doesn’t know anyone in his circle of acquaintances who’s a fan and isn’t a female.
Joe, maybe that’s in Texas out here in the real, I have met Potter fans from varying age groups and when a midnight show happens. It’s almost a guarantee to see mothers and fathers being there with their kids. Seriously, it’s Harry Potter. It’s not like I am making this up or Keith Olbermann or Devin Farci or the countless million upon million of Potter fans.
Generation is such a loose term these days. It now seems to refer to a three-five year period when people were in high school together and experienced most of the same popular culture touchstones (TV shows, songs, movies, fashion trends, books, etc.). Anyone who comes after that just wouldn’t get it…or at least not on the same emotional level. In other words, Joe, your 23-year old son is too young. All the HP fans I know are between 25-35 and grew up with the damn things.
Also as always, impossible to know what IO is going for, since “v2” IO is now fronting like this wise-beyond-his-years, 30-something cineaste who grew up watching BREATHLESS but retains a youthful joie de vivre… In previous years, pretty sure he claimed to be early 20s, mid 20s tops. Would almost swear that was found or admitted to be conclusive.
Either he aged a decade since his disappearance, one of the two claims was a lie, he’s schizo, or he’s playing one of those infamous games that the rest of us just don’t get. Which is fine, I am TEAM IO, but I never understand what the BIG MYSTERY is.
Palm: That sounds about right. I was born too late to have quite the same affection for Saturday matinee movie serials that obviously fuels people like Lucas and Spielberg (although I did see some serials on TV). I was already in college when The Brady Bunch premiered in prime time, never watched it, and still can’t quite understand the love many folks have for the show. And don’t get me started on my befuddlement whenever I hear some forgettable B-movie or slasher flick from the ’80s referred to as a “classic.”
Hey, I was in high school when it was on, but I’ll NEVER get when some fellow Gen X, late-thirtysomething acts like GROWING PAINS was some formative TV show for “our generation,” dropping all these references to episodes or Kirk Cameron or whatever. Who watched THAT shit? Who watched ABC in those days at all? Home Improvement, same deal. Never saw a single frame. Nor Roseanne. ABC was like the LOW-RENT network then where even their broadcast sheen looked all wan and depressing.
Though curiously I remember HOOPERMAN.
Lex, I really like Goudard. Always have. His films speak to me no matter how goofy that comes across to some. Nevertheless, I never admitted my age and there is no mystery. You folks even know my name. The only difference is that once I came back (which I could have come back sooner if I changed my name) I decided to try not to be so angry and yell at people. Not stating that it’s always worked since I came back but I just tried to be more sensible.
Joe, out of curiosity, what films from the 80s referred to as CLASSICS, befuddle you? Also, from my experience, Potter fans are all ages.
I find it hard to believe that you really like Godard when you don’t even know how to spell his name.
Also, you’ve never (as far as I’ve seen) posted your name or age. You told me once your first name was Jason but I don’t know if that was reliable information.
Anyway, IOI, what are you going to do when the two final Potter movies, combined, and in 3D, gross less worldwide than Avatar?
Jeff, that’s a typo. Goodness, you really think the worst of me like Leah. Were you born down under? You also owe Don some drinks. The fact that you think a typo negates how I film about a great filmmaker, pretty much sums up like you are an interesting character.
Yes that’s my name and you referred to me as my name before but seeing as I like my VERSION 2 moniker. You can go with IO.
Finally, Jeff, stop looking at the ceiling, look at international grosses for Potter, then get back to me. I can see both films combined easily outgrossing Avatar. Of course, it would seem that the 3D bump is dwindling, but seeing as these are the last two Harry Potter films. I can seem them easily doing 1.5b a piece and I think that’s more than 2.7b.
Speaking of Godard and Truffaut:
http://www.culturemap.com/newsdetail/07-29-10-a-ibreathless-i-look-at-the-french-new-wave-in-mfah-film-series/
“You folks even know my name.”
Why does that remind me of a lyric from David Bowie’s Cat People theme?
I have cats, I have dogs, and I have many a t-shirt. BEWARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Or “Sympathy for the Devil.”
IOI, we’ve had this discussion before and I guarantee that neither of the final two Potter movies will make more than $1.2 billion, and I think that’s a generous estimation adding in your hated 3D bump. It’s a very consistent franchise in that every film, internationally, has made between $879 and $975 million, with the exception of the curiously underperforming Prisoner of Azkaban. I see no reason for the audience to expand much beyond those numbers.
Jeff, you do not need the audience to expand with the 3DB, which I do not hate by the way. It’s an enhancer and when you enhance films that already kicked ass without enhancement. What do you think happens? MORE MONEY! MORE MONEY! MORE MONEY! It’s simple math at this point.
The films will make about $1 billion each without the 3D bump and add in a 20% bonus for 3D and you’ve got $1.2 billion. What are your numbers based on?
IO: One title that immediately comes to mind — Predator. Seriously. Evidently, some people here were surprised by the second-week drop for Predators. I wasn’t. Come to think of it, I wouldn’t be surprised if the Tron sequel doesn’t perform as well as some expect/hope. Other ’80s “classics” that, to me, are unworthy of that description: The Breakfast Club and 16 Candles. On the other hand: Risky Business rules. And I really enjoyed Footloose, and I’m genuinely curious to see what Brewer does with the remake. I wish he could figure out a way for Christina Ricci to show up and do a steamy Black Snake Moan type dance number.
Jeff, the bump is not even close to being that minuscule. Seriously, it’s closer to 40 percent and that puts them over 1.5 easy. Again, they are going to combined beat Avatar but Avatar had an inflated gross, so at this point it’s all McGuire and Sosa.
Joe, you hate Predators? Well, sir, you are not sort of Santa Claus I want to know! No, sir! Not at all!
That aside, Tron Legacy is opening at the right time of year to beat Avatar. Yes, you read me right. I am going with Nunziata (I think?) in believing Tron Legacy could be really big bank.
IO: Haven’t yet seen Predators. May rent it from Redbox. But the original Predator certainly didn’t inspire me to rush out and see the reboot/sequel/whatever on opening weekend. Truth to tell, I preferred both Aliens/Predators monster mash-ups.
wow, you just can’t resist a little dig and leave me out of your crap, can you, io?
just to say, this quote is priceless:
“The only difference is that once I came back (which I could have come back sooner if I changed my name) I decided to try not to be so angry and yell at people.”
the other day in comment after comment you denied EVER having been angry on this blog, denied that you had ever abused people and that it was all JUST A JOKE!!! har de har! and further, that i, and others you have abused, am at fault for misinterpreting your ‘humour’ — which is of course an absolute lie, or delusion, or both.
so mark this day, save it to the hard-drive, you have just admitted – after all the copious, twisted denial and pretending you have never said a harsh word to anyone here – that you were indeed an angry, abusive, problem child, who has been banished for your behavior.
you have called me more vicious shit and you have been more personal with me – even crossing the line to involve my kid – than just about anyone else on this blog, so again, give the victim complex a rest. what i think of you is directly commensurate with the psychotic venom you have spewed on this blog over the years – not just at me but at NUMEROUS people – no more, no less. in my experience leopards VERY RARELY change their spots.
i’m not going to say anything further on the subject now so feel free to have ‘the last word’ like an infant. you’ve made this blog just about unreadable lately with your 24/7 presence, but i don’t expect that will change.
Leah, you seem so upset. Can I draw you a nice warm bubble bath to help you relax?
yes please
Let’s do it like they do it out WEST, MCWEENY STYLE!
Corrected grammar and spelling provided by Domo!
“ow, you just can’t resist a little dig and leave me out of your crap, can you, io?”
How is that a little dig? Why are you so quick to unleash on me? Outside of you thinking that I am lying all the time like Foamy (that’s a dig 😀 ), you have no reason because once again, you are not an innocent, and you seem to forget this in your diatribes. It’s a not a dig. You do not like me, Foamy does not like me, and I just wanted to know if it’s a Southern Hemisphere thing. You miss a joking… SHOCKING!
‘ I have to just say, this quote is priceless:
‘The only difference is that once I came back (which I could have come back sooner if I changed my name) I decided to try not to be so angry and yell at people.’
The other day in comment after comment you denied EVER having been angry on this blog, denied that you had ever abused people and that it was all JUST A JOKE!!!”
Much like Foamy, you seem to know a different version of the English language. Seriously, I indeed do state that I got angry but that much of the time, especially with Christian’s quote, that had more to do with being silly than with being angry. You also seem to forget that you and Scoot earned that quote by being absolutely horrible to me for no other reason than you wanted to insult me and my intellect. Seriously, go read it again and hopefully this time you will get it.
“Har de har!
Further, that I, and others you have abused,”
HOW HAVE I ABUSED YOU? I TALK SMACK TO YOU IN A FIGHT! A FIGHT WHERE YOU WERE INSULTING ME. YOU CANNOT DETERMINE HOW PEOPLE RESPOND TO YOUR INSULTS LEAH! You taught me that :D!
“…am at fault for misinterpreting your ‘humour’ — which is of course an absolute lie, or delusion, or both.”
Again, you once again lack the ability to grasp a point because you hold a grudge and think like Foamy (another shot 😀 ) I LIE ALL THE TIME. Nope, I do not like, but if you treat me the way you have Leah. You get what’s coming to you and you have never ever gotten the fact that you are more MEAN, more ANGRY, and more VICIOUS than anyone who has ever posted on this blog. I am not the only one who holds this opinion of you but unlike you, I understand what the world MAGNANIMOUS MEANS and do not believe everyone to post her to be as mean, angry, and vicious as you obviously do.
“So mark this day, save it to the hard-drive, you have just admitted – after all the copious, twisted denial and pretending you have never said a harsh word to anyone here – that you were indeed an angry, abusive, problem child, who has been banished for your behavior.”
I admitted to being angry, Leah. I have not admitted to being a problem child and I was not banished for my behaviour. If I remember, I got banished for ripping apart a film constantly that had 82 percent of it’s box office consist of 3DB. Seriously, you are too easy, and if any one is a problem on here now. It’s you.
“you have called me more vicious shit and you have been more personal with me – even crossing the line to involve my kid”
YOU WERE ATTACKING ME AND WERE PERSONAL WITH ME FIRST! How should I respond? Should I just ignore it and rise above it, or should I RESPOND WITH MORE GUSTO THAN YOU COULD MUSTER ON A GOOD DAY? I go with more firepower and you got your wee little feelings hurt. My response: sorry but you had it coming. The fact that you seem to ignore your mean, angry, and vicious behaviour is on you, it’s not on me, and you are not my family. Fight fair with family. Fight dirty with everyone else. Sorry but you are not an innocent, neither am I, but you seem to think that you are.
” – than just about anyone else on this blog, so again, give the victim complex a rest.”
When you start it first. I will state that I am a victim of mean, angry, and vicious attacks by a woman with some problems that can’t let things go and believes that I lie like Foamy (one more shot 😀 )
“What i think of you is directly commensurate with the psychotic venom you have spewed on this blog over the years – not just at me but at NUMEROUS people – no more, no less. in my experience leopards VERY RARELY change their spots.”
What I think of you is this: you are just a mean, angry, and vicious woman that cannot let her hate of me go. and who believes me to be a liar when trying to make peace with you. Seriously, you got the problem here and unlike you, I can let go of all the crap you can throw at me because once the fight is over, I move on.
“I’m not going to say anything further on the subject now so feel free to have ‘the last word’ like an infant.”
Yes it’s infantile to want to respond to a weird and twisted Kiwi that wants to slander me because I threw down on you when you threw down on me.
“You’ve made this blog just about unreadable lately with your 24/7 presence, but I don’t expect that will change.”
If you can stir the drink better, then let’s see you try. If not, so long to mean, angry, and vicious rubbish.
Leah:
Out of sheer curiosity, who do you dislike more overall: Me or IO? And do either of us have any redeeming qualities?
Leah: Need your back scrubbed?
Lex, she has answered your question before. She likes you more because unlike me, you can have discussions about film.
I don’t know, IO… She still fights with you. I’ve been on the pay-no-mind list for a couple months now, where she doesn’t even acknowledge me. Oddly, the silent treatment is not because of my potshots at her, which have gone on for ages, but because I went off on Christian, of all douches, on his blog.
Lex, I got too personal with her and she’s still pissed about it. That’s the only reason why she’s bothering with me. If she and her peeps had their way, you and I would be posting on HOTBLOG II!
The Cold Blog.
Lex admits it! He’s anti-Christian!
(Sorry, it’s been a long day and that’s the best I can do.)
*rimshot*
Although I have to say, if someone is going to misrepresent something I say I’d prefer if it wasn’t some lame “Foamy lies!” schtick. I demand higher calibre material.
And while we’re on terrible jokes…
Leah: don’t let Joe draw you a bubble bath – he’s a terrible artist.
Thank you, thank you, I’ll be here all week…
Foamy, your response about lying is one of the funniest things I have ever read online. Seriously, I find it that funny, and commend you on such high hilarity.
nice ones Foamy, and Cadavra.
IO…most unfair diatribe against Leah. Tsk tsk. Big apology needed or just STFU and talk about movies.
Lota, you wronged me as well. If you don’t apologize to me, you can do the same.
Seriously Lota, it’s like you all think you never did anything wrong. It’s hilarious. I admit what I did, I’m not stating it was right, but we were involved in a fight. A fight where you people (you know who you are) thought I should fight fair when you were insulting me, my mom, and countless other things. It’s like you think you were responding in kind when it was so the other way.
You know what Lota? You are right. It’s totally dicky of me to have responded to Leah that way. I should have just taken because I did respond like an a-hole no matter the justification and responding that way to her again, is straight up BS. So I apologize to Leah for personally insulting her, making her feel abused by me, and make it personal. She wins, I deserve to lose this win, and have a very good day.
I rarely post here (though I always enjoy reading), but I wanted to comment on Joe’s feelings about Potter as a generational event. My experience has been much different than his; for the last decade or so I’ve been teaching classes and running a residentially-based film program (yes, this means I live with a few hundred college students) at a university in the northeast, and to a somewhat stunning degree io’s declaration seems right to me. The Potter books and films are the predominant shared experience, and come up constantly in discussions of film no matter how jaded the conversants or how far flung from the subject at hand (seriously, any topic from noir to, say, the White Ribbon). Hermione is a frequent Halloween party costume; our museums do Potter-themed events that bring out college students in droves instead of local children. The biggest example of Potter mania I experienced was when I substitute-lectured at the last minute for a mini-course centered on the release of Goblet of Fire; the nitpicking about every variation from the source text was so anguished it was hard for me not to resort to mockery, even though I’m a fan of the books.
Avatar, to an even more surprising degree, is almost universally dismissed as an overrated trifle by the young folks around here; it seems to be a badge of shame to like it.
thank you IO
I work at an extremely prestigious new england university, and when the last potter book came out a simply astonishing number of people were carrying the book around and often reading it wherever they were. I’ve never seen that much public reading with books in general, much less an individual title. A saw numerous people reading as they were walking. It was definitely an obsession for a lot of people.
Yeah, Potter is big and anyone who thinks it’s not, sort puzzles me, but there you go.
I was in London during the underground/bus bombings, and The Half-Blood Prince came out between the two incidents.
I picked up a copy the day of release and was catching a flight to Paris at 2am that night, and the airport was swarming with armed security guards. One approached me while I was reading and waved his submachinegun at my book – “Dumbledore dies on page 596”.
Foamy that’s just trippy.
Please don’t misunderstand: I am not saying the Harry Potter books and films aren’t phenomenally popular. Nor am I saying they don’t have a broad cross-generational appeal. (Hell, I know people my age and older who have read all the books.) But, to repeat: In the ten years I’ve been teaching film studies courses at University of Houston and Houston Community College, I have never ever had a student ask me: Professor Leydon, what do you think of the new Harry Potter movie? No joke: I have had several students ask me about How to Train Your Dragon, but not one has ever even mentioned a Potter movie. If you experience has been different, well, it’s been different.
In a weird way, this reminds me of a conversation I recently had with a respected colleague who recommended that I include Two Lane Blacktop (a movie, I’ll admit up-front, that I don’t remember very fondly) in my syllabus for a course I teach on the New Hollywood era. I replied that I really didn’t think that the film was terribly significant in terms of initial impact or enduring influence, and that Dirty Harry, Harold and Maude and even Smokey and the Bandit (three films I have shown) are better illustrative of the period. He argued that Two Lane Blacktop is indeed an influential movie, and rattled off the names of several critics and filmmakers who agree with him. And I had to reply: My experience has been quite different. In fact, I cannot remember anyone I’ve ever interviewed — except, maybe, Warren Oates, though I can’t recall with absolute certainty — ever bringing up Two Lane Blacktop in a conversation. And, mind you, I’ve talked with filmmakers who have mentioned A Summer Place as a seminal influence.
And as for deciding what qualifies as “the biggest cinematic event of an entire generation,” well, take care that you don’t rush to judgment.
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,876859,00.html
Joe, is it possible your students don’t ask about the Potter films because they have been so uniformly excellent that said students don’t need to ask?
Joe, TWO-LANE BLACKTOP is an important 70’s film for a few reasons. One being that it was on the cover of Esquire in the day, replete with published script, in a brief moment when the New Hollywood was going all out. You should certainly show it as the kind of film that big studios were financing (however reluctantly). And it’s often refered to by film fans, primarily because of Warren Oates great performance. Come on Joe!
Well, don’t get me wrong; I’d be delighted if my students didn’t ask me about my take on Potter films for awhile! Even though I’ve received a few summer emails making sure we’ll be doing a trip/discussion to Deathly Hallows in November, there’s been so much Inception chatter that I’m anticipating a Potter grace period for a few months. Of course I did receive a long email from a student this morning with her take on 35 Shots of Rum, so one doesn’t want to generalize.
@Christian: If I recall, Esquire later apologized for putting that film on the cover. Or was that Little Fauss and Big Halsey?
@Cadavra: I have found that, in most cases, the only movies students ever ask about are ones they want to talk about.
Esquire put themselves into their own dubious awards for it. Which shows you what fickle friends they are. TWO LANE BLACKTOP is widely considered a classic now. In Peckinpah’s PLAYBOY interview from 72, he said THE LAST PICTURE SHOW was phony and TWO LANE BLACKTOP a masterpiece.
@Christian: You will be happy to know that I actually broke down and bought a DVD of Two Lane Blacktop during the current Barnes and Noble half-price sale. I figure, what the hell, maybe it’s time to give it a second chance. (And besides, I can claim it as a research expense on my taxes.) But I have to say: Back in the day, I brought a young lady who loved Dennis Wilson of the Beach Boys to see it — and she absolutely hated the film. No kidding. I mean, for years later, whenever we’d catch up with each other, she would joke about how I took her to see this awful movie that actually turned her off on Dennis Wilson.
It’s a bit like the time I took a buddy who was a Rolling Stones fan to see Godard’s Sympathy for the Devil. Midway through it, he turned to me and whispered: “This is the longest fuckin’ movie I’ve ever seen.” LOL.
I don’t say this too much, but if there were ever a GUY’S movie, TWO LANE BLACKTOP qualifies. What kind of GUY I can say not. But if Kim Morgan loves it…
Yeah, but don’t forget it has two of Kim’s favorite things in it: fast cars and Warren Oates.
Well, Warren Oates is God… or at least part of the Blessed Trinity with Francois Truffaut and Alfred Hitchcock…
And his perf as GTO in TWO LANE BLACKTOP is holy.
I’m sorry I don’t remember who it was, but the French movie Martyrs came up in some discussion on horror movies a while back and somebody said they thought it was loathsome and awful. Well, I saw it last night, and I’d have to agree. It takes cojones to try and make a movie that mashes up High Tension and The Passion of Joan of Arc, too bad it turned out to be a massive failure.
I thought Martyrs was pretty awful.