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David Poland

By David Poland poland@moviecitynews.com

The Inception Spoiler Thread

So now, audiences are having a chance to see the film… and argue about it.
Please assume that if you read the comments on this thread, you might run into ANY story element… and if that ruins the film for you, it’s on you.
Have at it…

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185 Responses to “The Inception Spoiler Thread”

  1. Hopscotch says:

    This is not a joke. The 8:20pm show at the Arclight Dome tonight – stopped the movie half way through because of complaints about the air conditioning.
    for those who don’t live in LA. this is easily one of the best theaters. No uproar among the crowd, just shock. I’m still stunned myself this is primo movie fans they are potentially alienating.
    so yeah, saw half of Inception and have a free movie pass, oh joy.

  2. IOv2 says:

    So… does anyone know the Madison?

  3. rossers says:

    I was literally dripping with sweat at the arclight at the Thursday 12:25 am showing.
    where’s my free movie pass?

  4. Aladdin Sane says:

    I just got in from seeing the film.
    I really dug the set pieces. The scale of what Nolan is trying to do is impressive. It seems somewhat of a paradox that for a director who isn’t a huge fan of CGI, that there is some that is way too obvious. Oh well, that’s a small complaint.
    The story was pretty good – although some of the logic at the end sorta had me saying to myself, “Really, that’s all it’ll take?” If everyone is so smart, why is it only Page’s character that can figure Dom out? Of course, if it was all just an elaborate plan in order for him to change his memories, as the ending strongly suggests, then Dom really made his projections dumber than they needed to be.
    Nice to see Tom Berenger get some A list work. Gotta hand it to Nolan – he’s used some awesome actors who’ve spent most of the past decade (or two) in decidedly awful movies to play somewhat important roles: Hauer, Roberts and now Berenger. Good job sir!
    Anyhow, my mind wasn’t blown. It was a fun film to watch, but really, wasn’t that complicated. Everything was laid out pretty well.
    Oh yeah, the slow mo shot of the van falling into the water…um…yeah, that garnered a few chuckles from the audience by the 3rd and 4th time it was shown. We get it. They’re falling. Let’s move on.

  5. sloanish says:

    He just can’t do action. It’s so odd. And I enjoyed it, but there seems to be so many gaping holes. He can explain some away with dream logic, but why would you spend an hour on dream exposition if you didn’t make it airtight.
    On a different matter, I HATE the Dome and never ever see a movie there. And now I have another reason. I think Arclight fucked up opening night of Dark Knight, too.

  6. M.A. says:

    HEY I was at the 8:20 showing with my g/f too! It was so warm in there and we were sweating, but we were surviving because the movie was so good. Although we were able to get the replacement tickets, we went to Sherman Oaks Arclight to use them and we were met with VERY RUDE employees. The girl working the Guest Services table was so very rude to my g/f and then her boss came by and didn’t even want to talk to us, and then he proceeded to chew her out in front of us. They did not honor our tickets, even though we followed the advice of the employees at the Hollywood location. WORSE EXPERIENCES AT THE MOVIES…Hollywood I just think it was bad luck, but Sherman Oaks, we will never go to that Arclight again and we want to warn everyone about how bad it is.

  7. IOv2 says:

    Sloan, it’s a spoiler thread, so go into some detail.
    Sane, they had to show the van to establish the difference in time. Luckily I had an audience that did not giggle at exposition!
    You also have to realize that Ariadne is the smartest character in that film. Only she can figure out Cobb because she’s the only one who gets what he can do because she can also do it, but she can do it better than anyone.

  8. christian says:

    The weightless fight in the hall is some kind of classic film moment, propelled by Zimmer’s awesome, audacious score.

  9. IOv2 says:

    You mean Zimmer and JOHNNY MARR’S audacious score! Never forget the Smiths, Electronica, or Modest Mouse! NEVER FORGET!

  10. christian says:

    I didn’t forget — even said to myself, “Hey that’s Johnny Marr.” But I didn’t hear his guitar in that fight scene. It’s those booming horns.

  11. NickF says:

    The soundtrack is fantastic. I’ve listened 3 times so far. I’m not one of the people that felt the movie was emotionally cold. It’s serviceable and the music adds a lot of character to the images on screen.
    I’ve mentioned this elsewhere and will do so here. The ski-patrol sequence is completely incomprehensible. Good guy in white parkas, bad guys in grayer white parkas. All of this taking place in a snow level Now we get a badly shot and edited action on the level of Batman Begins or TDK. Things were looking up for Nolan’s action styling after the hallway fights and the van chase, but then we get saddled with this.

  12. sloanish says:

    I’m very surprised by the lack of discussion about a movie that has more to discuss than most.
    Per IO, he just can’t do action! The Bourne chase in Morocco — mundane and boring. The car chase — nothing special except for the train…and why was the train the only dreamlike oddity in the whole movie except for… the zeto G hotel stuff. And that was pretty, but it felt like Matrix with up-to-date effects, nothing new. The snow battle? Felt out of place and would have felt routine if it wasn’t in the context of the spinning plates dream level thing.
    I think DP said this already, but he’s great with an iconic image, so-so when the guns and punches come out. Same for the Batmans.
    Plot-wise, he spends an hour bashing out rules, then keeps throwing out rules as they go along, and still there are plot gaps. Which I guess he can explain with dream logic — any cut can be construed as a dream jump since you never remember the beginnings or ends. That said, why are Dom and Mal young when they kill themselves on the train tracks? How do Leo and E Page find Cillian in the fourth level? I don’t think he’s even hooked up to the machine, is he? I’m sure there are 50 more of these.
    Finally the ending. I remember going into it hoping the end wasn’t going to be… it was a dream — or was it?! And it’s not that, but it’s close. Pick a side. Be subtle about it, but pick a side. Instead we’re going to have 3 months of both geeks and frat boys making up inane theories.
    And after all this bitching… I still enjoyed it.

  13. The best part were the cheers and hoots of laughter that greeted the trailer for Charlie St. Cloud.
    I saw it at Arclight Sherman Oaks and I’ve never had a bad experience there. It’s a little quicker for me to get to, the parking is free and I think it’s a little cheaper than Arclight Hollywood.
    People bitch about Arclight all the time, but I’ve never had movie going experiences as consistently good anywhere else.
    The Landmark is ok if you live out that way, but the seats are too close together.
    Anyway. Inception. Certainly not the masterpiece the hyperventilated early reviews claimed, but good fun. Nolan’s peculiar style of action actually worked much better here than it did in TDK and Christian is right about the hall fight. The lack of spacial awareness fit a certain dream logic. Though having said that, the dreaming here was oddly rigid. My dreams always morph from one thing to another, but maybe that’s a function of these people being able to control the dreams to an extent.

  14. Amblinman says:

    I completely disagree that Nolan can’t do action. What he can’t do is GREAT action. I think our level of expectation when a filmmaker reaches Nolan’s stature within the blockbuster playing field is that he’ll be able to wow us with his kinetics, but unfortunately Nolan just isn’t there. That doesn’t mean the action is badly presented. I always knew who was doing what to whom, how, and where everyone was in relation to each other. Important stuff that’s completely overlooked by most modern action directors. However, he just can’t craft an amazing setpiece. The weightless hallway fight really isn’t that spectacular. Nolan doesn’t do anything that interesting with the gimmick, just assumes that a fist fight in zero G’s is enough. I think Christian is spot on – the score does more selling of those moments than what’s actually taking place.
    This isn’t meant as aknock, necessarily. I think Nolan’s build to these moments and finally pulling the knot tight on all the threads was brilliant and thrilling. The audacity of creating and sticking to the rules he set up for dream invasion was exciting. I was absolutely expecting at least one or two or thirteen “IT WAS A DREAM!” mindfuck attempts, but the movie played fair and thank god for that.
    Dicaprio is a little too cold for a character like this. Throw out all the blow job demands and hatred for non-whites for a moment, and I’ll just suggest that 15 years ago, Mel Gibson would have taken this role and made it iconic.

  15. sloanish says:

    You’re right, the action is average, but not below-average. That said, if you spend 200 mil and have below average action then you have no excuse. Let the second unit do it.
    I think the other thing Nolan can’t do is cast women! Katie Holmes? Maggie G (for that part it doesn’t work)? Cotillard can do it in French but she still isn’t great in English. Ellen Page was just okay, but it was a thankless role.
    It’s hard to think of Mel Gibson has anything other than blow job king now, but he could do obsessed better than anyone. It’s pretty obvious where that ability comes from now.

  16. Skipping the spoiler portions of this thread (life has been hectic this week, had to skip press screening, haven’t seen the movie yet)…
    I ended up with a free pass back in early 1999 during a nearly empty screening of Affliction, because a couple senior citizens complained that the theater was too cold. I didn’t have any issues (I always bring a jacket just in case), but I gladly took the pass.

  17. Anghus Houvouras says:

    My only major complaint was what i would refer to as “the snow level”. Incoherent and utterly useless.
    And i agree, nolan has a style that does not lend itself well to kinetics. My biggest complaint for Batman Begins was the unintelligable action. In theory, watching Batman fight 4 ninjas should be awesome, but you cannot tell whats happening.
    The snow level scenes were useless. Ive seen better staged setpieces in Modern Warfare

  18. IOv2 says:

    The snow level represented and impenetrable fortress and that’s the subconscious. If you see that level as the subconscious and the last level before LIMBO. It works. If not, go play Modern Warfare and kill some innocent people in an airport!

  19. Anghus Houvouras says:

    That was my favorite level.

  20. Foamy Squirrel says:

    NO RUSSIAN!

  21. IOv2 says:

    Anghus if it’s your fave level then why did you hate on it? I also do not get the complaints about the action in this movie. Nolan and Co. are getting better at action. The action with Tom Hardy alone goes beyond anything seen in any previous Nolan movie, so disliking this action is as confounding to me as that damn spinning top not toppling over.

  22. I was with sloanish then Amblinman took it to the 2nd dream level. Nolan just isn’t a *great* action director. The sequences are there, but they lack suspense. The bank truck scene in “Dark Knight” was similarly, well, dull. That being said…
    I really, really loved “Inception.” It’s really just a great caper/heist film done in the science fiction realm. It was smart and fun and has some fucking brilliant set-pieces. That Gordon-Levitt weightless fight scene is one of the best scenes I’ve seen since jeez, “The Matrix?” Now, that being said…
    I DO think Nolan is “cold” as the relationships he forms in his films never have a warmth or “all-in” feeling. They’re perfunctory and serve purpose but there’s no organic feel to them, no warmth. Bruce Wayne and Alfred is almost an exception, but Wayne seems to piss all over Alfred when Alfred is only doing his best to be a surrogate father. However, I don’t think a director being “cold” is a bad thing. He’s not Kubrick cold.
    Read article or interviews with Nolan; dude is NOT a people person. How can he be expected to get all touchy feely and make you love characters if he is incapable of loving them himself?
    In fact, I’ll contradict myself because for me the biggest flaw in the film was the fact that when you assemble a team- Joseph Campbell style- in a film like this, you HAVE to have that back and forth, jibing, arguing that morphs into an eventual NEED for each other. Nolan tried this with the smarmy Brit dude kind of sniping at Levitt’s character, but it feels forced. Made me think each character on the team was a part of DiCaprio’s subconscious which I firmly believed was happening until the confrontation with Mal.
    Still, such a great film and a terrific experience. Can’t wait to see it again. I might do a D-box with is as I’ve been wanting to see what that’s all about.

  23. Geoff says:

    FREAKING AWESOME! Nolan’s best film since Memento, I don’t care if it sounds like hyperbole.
    Loved it – great cast, fantastic music, engaging story, awesome ending.
    Is the movie perfect? No. Is it better than The Dark Knight? Absolutely.
    Those criticizing the action – look, Nolan is not Cameron, but there were some standout scenes. The Mumbasa foot chase was actually very good – cool climax with Cobb having to squeeze himself through that tight corridor.
    SPOILER ALERT
    It’s all about the DREIDEL – I just love that the supposed “twist” ending was pretty much telegraphed on the movie’s teaser site A YEAR AGO. It’s a perfect ending, just the right level of ambiguity – nice compromise between the endings of Brazil and Minority Report.
    One thing I did have an issue with (but I guess this depends on how you interpret the ending) is that if Mal keeps sneaking into these dreams, there is absolutely nothing or no one sketchy coming in from the subconscious of any other character???
    I mean, the plot is already kind of stuffed to the gills, but just having some shots of one long-lost baby brother for Arthur or a dog that was owned by Eames could have sufficed – would have made it seem a little more consistent.
    The plot was actually easier to follow than I had anticipated – it sets up its own set of rules and pretty much sticks to them.
    Gotta hand it to Nolan for pulling this off – this is a damn ambitious thriller and unlike TDK, he really keeps it tight.

  24. jose says:

    Is it me or does some of the CGI, particularly at the end in the fourth “level” with the city being destroyed, doesn’t look that great.
    Another example is the exploding stuff when Ellen Page and DiCaprio sit at the cafe.
    It looked fake.
    Also, the climax in the fourth “level” was poorly staged, sloppily edited and well… disappointing.
    Really liked the film though. Certainly the most original blockbuster since Avatar, haha just kidding, in case it wasn’t obvious… I meant the Matrix.

  25. IOv2 says:

    ENGAGE CAPTAIN JEAN LUC PICARD STYLE! GO NOW!
    “I was with sloanish then Amblinman took it to the 2nd dream level. Nolan just isn’t a *great* action director. The sequences are there, but they lack suspense. The bank truck scene in “Dark Knight” was similarly, well, dull. That being said…”
    Lack suspense? Not every bit of action needs to be suspenseful. Occasionally, it’s perfunctory and that’s how Nolan uses it. There are going to be fights in his films, gunfights in his films, and he treats them as events that are going to happen and I appreciate that much more than trying to turn action into some suspenseful act.
    “I really, really loved Inception. It’s really just a great caper/heist film done in the science fiction realm. It was smart and fun and has some fucking brilliant set-pieces. That Gordon-Levitt weightless fight scene is one of the best scenes I’ve seen since jeez, “The Matrix?” Now, that being said…”
    Moving it along to this.
    “I DO think Nolan is ‘cold’ as the relationships he forms in his films never have a warmth or “all-in” feeling. They’re perfunctory and serve purpose but there’s no organic feel to them and have no warmth.”
    I stop it there because there’s way too much evidence to the contrary. You have the relationships in Memento between Pierce and Moss that’s not perfunctory. The same goes with Bats and Alfred, Bats and Gordon, Bats and the Joker, and Bruce and Rachel. These are relationships that carry real weight in these films and stating that they do not is a misrepresentation of those films and Nolan and his brother’s writing.
    “Bruce Wayne and Alfred is almost an exception, but Wayne seems to piss all over Alfred when Alfred is only doing his best to be a surrogate father.”
    Where on earth you get this from is beyond me. Alfred is his friend and confidant. Without Alfred stitching him up, helping him run test, and running stuff through the Batputer. Bats does not function worth a damn. They are a team and Alfred means the world to Bruce and viceversa and that’s why you get the burning of Rachel’s letter.
    “However, I don’t think a director being ‘cold’ is a bad thing. He’s not Kubrick cold.”
    I always thought of Kubrick as distant.
    “Read article or interviews with Nolan; dude is NOT a people person. How can he be expected to get all touchy feely and make you love characters if he is incapable of loving them himself?”
    That’s the thing: you don’t have to be a people person to get people and relationships. I will also state that Nolan has to have some idea about his shortcomings because he hired an actress, who above all else, sells love and friendship better than just about anyone else. Ellen Page sells every relationship she has in that movie. She’s the human core and that’s what she does well.
    “In fact, I’ll contradict myself because for me the biggest flaw in the film was the fact that when you assemble a team- Joseph Campbell style- in a film like this, you HAVE to have that back and forth, jibing, arguing that morphs into an eventual NEED for each other. Nolan tried this with the smarmy Brit dude kind of sniping at Levitt’s character, but it feels forced.”
    How dare you insult Tom Hardy!
    “Made me think each character on the team was a part of DiCaprio’s subconscious which I firmly believed was happening until the confrontation with Mal.”
    Not a bad idea.
    “Still, such a great film and a terrific experience. Can’t wait to see it again. I might do a D-box with is as I’ve been wanting to see what that’s all about.”
    WORD!

  26. Tofu says:

    Highly enjoyed the film. May just love the thing upon a second viewing sometime midweek.
    The reaction to the last shot was perfect. Watch it here:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkBYfNWajUU
    Same exact reaction at my theater, followed by laughter and heavy applause.

  27. IOv2 says:

    Geoff, your hatred of TDK remains utterly and totally New Yorkish.
    Jose wrote; “Is it me or does some of the CGI, particularly at the end in the fourth “level” with the city being destroyed, doesn’t look that great.”
    It am willing to bet that it’s CGI along with practical work. That’s at least what it appeared to me.
    “Another example is the exploding stuff when Ellen Page and DiCaprio sit at the cafe.”
    Oh that ruled. Nolan and Co. used stills and photos and put stuff on top of that plate and exploded it, which just rules. I have never seen any FX like that and that’s why it’s cool. I did love the dodgy CGI of Cobb and Ariadne walking up the folded road. That sort of stuff makes me pop like a cheap Foley promo.
    “It looked fake.”
    It’s a totally new idea. Maybe that’s why you didn’t like it?
    “Also, the climax in the fourth “level” was poorly staged, sloppily edited and well… disappointing.”
    Eames kicked everyones butt while a siege of a freaking fortress took place. What more do you want? Again I do not get this response to that at all.
    “Really liked the film though. Certainly the most original blockbuster since Avatar, haha just kidding, in case it wasn’t obvious… I meant the Matrix.”
    Nice very nice and here’s to being able to overcome dodginess!

  28. Geoff says:

    That’s just cool, Tofu – it’s certainly an ending that leaves you with a smirk on your face.
    And forgot to mention this earlier – the Bond comparisons certainly are there, but none moreso than the music cues. The score was amazing and I want the soundtrack – David Arnold could take a few lessons from Hans Zimmer.

  29. Geoff says:

    Io, when did I ever say I hated The Dark Knight? I just think this was a step-up from that movie for Nolan.
    I liked The Dark Knight; but sorry, I think Batman Begins is the superior movie. Seriously, just compare the Bale’s performance in both movies – he really knocked it out of the park as both Batman/Wayne in the first movie and was more of an afterthought in TDK.
    Regardless, Inception is truly Nolan’s best movie since Memento – I have no problem saying that, at all. The guy is a master at absorbing you into the story and then have you leaving the theater with a silly smirk on your face. And his casting is dead-on – Ellen Page was given a very expository, tricky role that would have come off as just plain silly as played by some chippie named Jessica. But she just knocks it out of the park.
    Joseph Gordon Levitt is getting his share of kudos and lord knows, he deserves it – wow, who would have thought of him as a credible action star, but he just SELLS those zero gravity scenes in a way that Keanu couldn’t even come close in even the best Matrix action scenes. The dude has a completely focused, dead-determined look on his face and just really sells the physical action.
    You know, there are comparisons being thrown around to Michael Mann, but I just feel like Nolan is really his own entity – if anything, I would consider him a much brainier James Cameron. In this and TDK, he pulls off the kind of ongoing 40 minute plus escalating climaxes that only Cameron has really tried – the action is not as expertly choreographed and the story is not as tightly constructed (sorry, I love Nolan, but just think of the last 40 minutes of Aliens as a prime example of how to get it done), but the acting and dialogue is better.

  30. IOv2 says:

    Geoff, someone brought up that TDK got really bad reviews in the NYC and that’s the reference in case you missed it.
    That aside, your criticisms of TDK are sort of like Don’s: really weird. Enjoy them, embrace them, and live with them. Over here, I just find it perplexing you even give a crap about Bruce Wayne having more time in TDK after we already know his motivations from Begins.

  31. Geoff says:

    Io, it’s not about him having more time – it’s about him being a more interesting and entertaining character to watch in Batman Begins.
    People forget now after the explosion of TDK that there was a lot of buzzing after Batman Begins how perfect casting Bale was – he was doing some of his Patrick Bateman-riffs on the character and how much fun that was to watch. There was NONE of that in The Dark Knight.

  32. IOv2 says:

    I hate American Psycho and never ever saw Bruce Wayne as being a psycho. Seriously, you seem to be bring more of what’s in your head to what’s on the screen and that’s never good man. IT’S NEVER GOOD! You may need to see… The Doctor.
    Oh yeah there was none of that in TDK because all of that stuff in BEGIN IS ORIGIN STORY! Begins is about Bruce becoming the bat. TDK is about Bruce dealing with being the Bat. The next film, possibly, could be about Bats finally in his full and unfettered glory.

  33. jose says:

    Question:
    Why was the limbo exactly like the place the first architect constructed?
    Is it all leo’s character’s dream? Did he constructed it all?
    If he was dreaming the whole time and his wife was actually telling the truth, why do we see what the other character’s are doing? Is the entirety of the film a dream? Is this the most epic and cinematic dream ever in the history of dreams then?
    Or could Nolan simply not resist to go “it’s a dream!!! ….or is it?””
    Does anyone even care?

  34. jose says:

    Wow, turns out I can’t spell when drunk.

  35. sloanish says:

    A second viewing tonight helped it for me. The difference in sound between the WGA theater and the Arclight is rather different and being able to hear everything filled in some of what I believed were plot holes. A problem with shitty sound is you can’t always understand Watanabe. On second viewing…
    That first hour (post-opening caper, which is much, much, much more awesome when you understand everything that’s going on) is still a drag, but the action picked up a little for me — except for the snow level. I still think that was a miscalculation. That hotel fight sure was pretty. I know Nolan doesn’t like behind the scenes, but I’d love to see some of it.
    The BIGGEST hole for me is not the plot or even the coldness of the Dom story, it’s that nobody else has their own little story or moment of triumph. They’re all just there to service the plot. Something like Levitt being afraid of heights and having to function in zero G or the Chemist worried about bringing them back because he once lost someone who didn’t feel the kick. Ellen Page should have a reason why she cares so much about Leo and the job. Stuff like that could have made a real difference. Also, a little bit more dream fun. The Eames Rambo show in the snow was just banal ass-kicking. Since he was fighting his own subconscious (it’s his dream), it seems like either it should have been much tougher or much more fun and easy since he has power over his subconscious. Obviously tougher would work better, and it would have made Mal make more sense. We’re four levels in on the plot but we don’t go a single level down in story/emotion for most of the characters.
    Finally, if you’re at the movies, PLEASE DO NOT FUCKING EAT AND CRUNCH YOUR ICE. This idiot lady two seats away was doing the cup tip rumble followed by audible chomping of the ice for the first hour. So, so rude. If I hadn’t already seen the movie I would have put her in limbo.

  36. IOv2 says:

    Sloanish, that all reads a bit nitpicky to me. Really. Yeah yeah yeah flaws and what not, but a lot of that stuff seems to be looking for a flaw, which seems to be a coast thing. Why? I live in a part of the world that embraces the whole and does not mess around with the cracks. Different strokes and all but if I had a bad ass fortress level in my mind, you better believe I would make it where I had to earn each and every kill. Eames seems to be that way in a sense, because he tells Arthur to DREAM BIGGER and indeed he did.
    Oh yeah, one more thing that annoys me about this nitpick about every character’s motivation serving the plot. It’s just not Inception, it’s other movies where people believe characters simply exist as a mechanism to move the story along and outside of that, have no real depth. Well duh with the moving the story along but this is a TEAM MOVIE. Every character contributing to a successful mission, which is ambiguous in this film and all but let’s go with them succeeding, means every CHARACTER HAS DEPTH. They all overcome or do something to make the mission succeed. What more would you have Nolan do with them? This is Nolan. We know there are no extra scenes, maybe different takes, but he shoots everything that he writes. It’s lean for a reason and given him flak or nitpicking him on depth of characters, sort of ignores the team concept of this story.

  37. torpid bunny says:

    Who knew Nolan was reaching not for Mann and Ridley Scott but License to Kill?
    Seemed like about a third of the movie was in medium close-up or closer. Not exactly deep focus.

  38. Anghus Houvouras says:

    if you have HBO in demand. There’s a sneak peak video about Inception and they show some of the mechanics behind the no gravity scene.
    no stunt doubles for mr. gordon levitt.
    i think i’d enjoy a making of doc as much as i enjoyed the movie.

  39. CharlieDontSurf says:

    I personally think the entire movie is a paradox closed loop

  40. CharlieDontSurf says:

    I personally think the entire movie is a paradox closed loop

  41. Shillfor Alanhorn says:

    SERIOUS QUESTION FOR THE INCEPTION-PHILES:
    Apart from the “wow” factor (and I’ll give the movie credit for tons of “wow,” particularly its bigness and swooping vistas and impeccably integrated VFX and the entire hotel/elevator sequence), did you really give a shit about anything or anyone?
    Think hard before answering.

  42. Lota says:

    I did like Inception and I thought, like others, that it was awesome to use such an AWESOME cast. Berenger! Watanabe! Cotillard! And Page managed to not annoy me, she was excellent
    IO I *never* forget The Smiths sonny, since I LOVE putting up this song for you (tradition)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Igg_2ZqyMzQ&feature=related
    It will always be our song IO ! Mozza!

  43. Lota says:

    “They’re all just there to service the plot.”
    I see what you are saying Sloanish, but I think that is what made it more real to me since most of us are cogs in some machine and cogs don’t necessarily reveal why we care about things or our motives in our day to day–we just do our bit when the chance comes up. I can see what you mean…for some characters a bit more reveal on motives would have been clearer but then I never question the hidden Self in Mann movies either, which I hope Nolan will continue on the Mann track since it suits him.
    and I totally AGREE about the ice thing–and why do movie chains sell f*cking NACHOS? Sell quiet food you aholes. Sell Pudding! Jello cubes (jello shots even better)!
    But CRUNCHY NACHOS and other chips?

  44. IOv2 says:

    Shill, yeah, I liked all of them. I wanted the entire team to kick and wake up.
    Lota, you can eat nachos quietly and that’s the way uh huh uh huh I like it.

  45. The Big Snake says:

    Here’s a question: did it strike anyone else as odd when at the hotel level, the layout (as telegraphed earlier by Gordon-Levitt) makes use of an abbreviated endless staircase (from which he pushes a bad projection) but somehow the same architecture also included a whole elaborate elevator shaft?

  46. IOv2 says:

    Snake, you could explain the elevator shaft thing by what Cobb told Ariadne during their walk through Paris.

  47. Monco says:

    I really dug the movie. I don’t get the complaints about Nolan’s ability to shoot action. I think Inception is one of the best action movies I have seen in a long time. After the opening heist, which I think is just pure brilliance, the snow level was my favorite sequence of the whole movie. I didn’t want it to end. I couldn’t believe Nolan would go so balls-out with such badass action. Give me TDK and this over any Cameron movie any day of the week.
    As for someone earlier mentioning why does Mal keeping coming in to the dreams, I thought it was because Dicaprio was the most powerful dreamer. He’s also the most fucked up. He can’t be an architect anymore because his subconscious has to much hurt and pain in it. Getting new architects is a way of limiting Mal appearances during the heists, but she still finds her way in.

  48. IOv2 says:

    Hail Hail Monco.

  49. doug r says:

    Saw Inception at a theater a short drive from our place ($6 matinees). Kinda muddy sound, but it was all in focus at least.
    Awesome zero-G stuff.
    Why are you guys such snobs for the Arclight? When we were in LA when Knight & Day came out, we bought a Regal twofer ticket at Costco for $14.99 plus tax. Then we went to LA Live where they have official parking across the street for $5. All Digital Projection, decent punchy sound, not such a huge candy bar-but I like the focus on the presentation. Even the cleaning staff greeted us. All in all, a pleasant movie experience.

  50. IOv2 says:

    Yeah the Archlight is not even as good as the Paradiso here in Memphis. Yes I have been there and it shocked me that such a half-assed presentation could impress so many cinephiles the world round.

  51. I didn’t care all that much about the characters, which was a major problem once the film became all about the dream world. Of all the various comparisons being thrown around, Inception most reminded me of John Frankenheimer’s Ronin: an ice-cold procedural about hard professional mercenaries doing a specific job without care in regards to what that job entails. The entire film is basically a minute-by-minute examination of the particulars of the given assignment. There’s minimal emotional pull, next to no character development save the lead, and action that feels like it wasn’t staged for the cameras. The difference is that Ronin’s far more brutal and graphic action involved real people, while Inception involved projections dying unreal deaths, ala any given video game.

  52. IOv2 says:

    Oh my god no. Ronin is just a soulless action film. Inception is about love and loss and an idea. Seriously, that’s a horrible analogy that makes me feel as dirty as I did after watching The Cell.
    Seriously Scott, your reactions to any genre/sci-fi film always interest me because they always, at least to me, seem to be so detached from the material and that makes me wonder about perception and what not. Nevertheless, your Scott Pilgrim review should be really interesting.

  53. torpid bunny says:

    Interesting premise, nice production design, lots of fascinating ideas, great cast and Leo is terrific, cool score. However, the main problem, as with TDK, is too much sauce:
    1) Interesting but complex and hard to grasp premise involving tons of exposition
    2) Complex heist narrative
    3) Oedipal drama within heist narrative
    4) Elaborate backstory involving relationship between protagonist and dead wife
    5) Protagonist needs to get out of game to see his kids
    The movie delivers somewhat on some of these threads but putting them all together overloads the story and turns the last 90 minutes into an unsatisfying griffithian chase montage. Nolan appears somewhat like J.J. Abrams in being averse to slower tempos which add variety and flavor. Plus his action chops are lacking.

  54. mdana says:

    I originally wrote this on other sites here is the combined version.
    The movie itself: Matrix + Heat/Dreamscape + Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind + Shutter Island
    A+
    Then I fell asleep watching Southern Comfort on DVR. When I woke up from a dream, another reference came to me.
    The movie has elements of all the movies I listed in above, but the movie that is the baseline for the film is really Dead of Winter (1945). Perhaps the greatest horror film (IMHO), it was the first film I saw (I was 12) that was a real mindf*%k.
    Quote:
    Architect Walter Craig, seeking the possibility of some work at a country farmhouse, soon finds himself once again stuck in his recurring nightmare.
    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0037635/
    It’s got the dream loop, its got the totem (broken glasses), and it improves on one of the best endings ever.
    As far as I can tell there are three valid interpretations for what happend with Cobb:
    1. Straightforward-Cobb works as an extractor and does an inception for Saito. When Saito gets pulled into limbo, while Cobb performs his inception, Cobb goes deeper than originally planned and saves Saito. Saito compensates Cobb with the prearranged payment.
    2. From the inception of the film, Cobb is in limbo and finally returns to reality.
    3. From the inception of the film, Cobb is in limbo and enters another level or layer.
    All have flaws, due to Cobb being an unreliable narrator.
    I am suprised that no one has mentioned that two of the main characters are named Emes and Fischer, which to me recall this guy:
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/ba/DrawingHands.jpg
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a3/Escher%27s_Relativity.jpg
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/2c/Escher%2C_Metamorphosis_II.jpg
    M.C. Escher
    He was probably most widely known for impossible objects-
    Quote:
    In most cases the impossibility becomes apparent after viewing the figure for a few seconds. However, the initial impression of a 3D object remains even after it has been contradicted. There are also more subtle examples of impossible objects where the impossibility does not become apparent spontaneously and it is necessary to consciously examine the geometry of the implied object to determine that it is impossible.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impossible_object
    I think Escher’s distorted perspectives (the compass for viewing this film’s terrain) invalidate any one specific interpretation. Nothing holds up to a logical reality, if you look at it from another angle. I don’t think there is one unifying theory to point to as “Aha, this is the answer.” To me this is Nolan’s love letter to Escher, movies, and especially moviegoers. Like Powell’s Peeping Tom and some of Hitchcock’s more sublime work, he has inverted the passive viewer and made him or her implicit in their own deception. By planting in our minds there is logic and reason to be had, we deny or discount we are in a dream state. Like Cobb’s washing up on the beach (which I continuosly reminded myself throughout the movie to remember how the dream/movie began), each moviegoer has no recollection of what has transpired beforehand and rapidly has to catch up to the situation in a hurried, frenzied state. Some things seem so important to piece together this seemingly logical puzzle. Then, just as it is all coming together, and you are about to come to the amazing revelation of what it all means-“Will the dradle topple or not?”- The dreams ends, and it is all lost forever never to be regained what exactly it meant. Yet you are drawn to somehow relive the dream in order to recapture that spirit…

  55. Jeremy B says:

    “One thing I did have an issue with (but I guess this depends on how you interpret the ending) is that if Mal keeps sneaking into these dreams, there is absolutely nothing or no one sketchy coming in from the subconscious of any other character???”
    Cobb was the only one who had so thoroughly destroyed/remade his psyche as to allow it. He was the only one who had gone so deep, spent so “long” there, and reused so much of his actual memories in creating dreamscapes (which he warned Ariadne not to do).
    My problem with the movie is that he didn’t use the twist ending I was rooting for: the movie was a dream sequence initiated by his daughter — Ariadne — to pull him out of Limbo. (Then again, in Toy Story 2 I wanted Jesse to have belonged to Andy’s mom, and that didn’t happen either.)

  56. IOv2 says:

    Torpid, who needs a slower pace and please point out a film this year with better action. Again, I get that people have complaints but yours are by far the weirdest I have come across. It’s really as if you and I saw two different films.

  57. I get what Inception is about (and I’ve read several fascinating ‘alternate readings’ that make me appreciate it even more), but much of the moment-to-moment action (especially in the second act) left me kinda cold because I knew that much of it wasn’t terribly consequential. By the way, the ‘action not staged for the camera’ comment was a positive one, in that it felt real and not terribly rehearsed (I liked that the floating hallway fight wasn’t filled with ‘money shots’). Cobb’s arc had a token amount of weight (the arc involving his late wife was much more emotionally engaging that I was expecting), but everyone else existed just to serve his arc. Not a problem per se, but again, similar to Ronin, where only De Niro (and to a lesser extent Jean Reno) got any kind of character work to play with. Both films (on the surface) are about the minute-to-minute specifics of a group of cold mercenaries doing an extra-legal job. I rather like both films (Ronin has aged pretty well, I just watched it a few months ago), but I don’t think either of them are masterpieces. Inception is a smart and ambitious piece of work, but I was surprised at how more engaged I was in the set-up than I was in the second-act dream sections. Besides, saying a film wasn’t as personally satisfying to me as Memento or The Prestige isn’t exactly a put down. An ‘A-‘/B+’ shouldn’t be considered a failure.

  58. Sorry for the double post, but it’s funny you mention The Cell, a film that I was afraid that Inception might resemble. I actually like the first two-thirds of The Cell (we are given just enough background on the kidnap victim to care whether she lives or dies), but once the main arc is finished and Lopez just enters D’Onofrio’s mind just to ‘mentally heal him’, I lost all interest. As for Scott Pilgrim, I think it looks quite sophomoric, but I’ve been wrong before (I liked Kick-Ass a lot more than I was expecting).

  59. Crow T Robot says:

    If you take away all the smoke & mirrors, Inception boils down to a lead character who consciously realizes that his wife is dead and must deal with this by… uh… consciously realizing that his wife is dead.

  60. CharlieDontSurf says:

    The Penrose stairs is an impossible object created by Lionel Penrose and his son Roger Penrose. It can be seen as a variation on the Penrose triangle. It is a two-dimensional depiction of a staircase in which the stairs make four 90-degree turns as they ascend or descend yet form a continuous loop, so that a person could climb them forever and never get any higher. This is clearly impossible in three dimensions; the two-dimensional figure achieves this paradox by distorting perspective.”
    What have the hundreds of threads and tens of thousands of comments in this forum shown? Every theory (it’s a dream, it’s not a dream) can be eventually contradicted by some other element of the film. This isn’t just “ambiguity”, it’s literally impossible to construct a theory for the movie that accounts for all the evidence in the film because the evidence is contradictory. Interpreting the plot of Inception is like climbing the Penrose stairs; you think you are always climbing up or climbing down, but you never get anywhere.
    For those of you who remember The Prestige, recall that the structure of the magic trick in The Prestige is *also* the structure of the film itself (the pledge, the turn, the prestige). The motif of the Penrose stairs in Inception is also the structure of Inception. There will never be a final theory that Cobb is dreaming or that Cobb is in reality. One does not climb the impossible staircase and get anywhere. But you can understand how the paradox is achieved; it’s achieved by distorting perspective. What is a film if not a distortion of perspective?

  61. JTag says:

    Monco – you wrote “Give me TDK and this over any Cameron movie any day of the week.”. Are you including the entire Cameron oeuvre when you say this, because “Aliens” is just about the most perfect action scene ever made. It makes me sad that Avatar lacked such awesome characters because we’ve seen Cameron do it before.
    I’m a little stunned by how many people have to insult Cameron to praise Nolan. I LOVED Inception, and Avatar is my least favorite Cameron film, yet in that film Cameron still manages to give a master class on how to shoot action.

  62. IOv2 says:

    Why do people have to insult Cameron to praise Nolan? Unlike Cameron, Nolan would never pass off a freaking remake of Dances With Wolves with Blue Cats. He provides us with awesome and not pablum level bullhockey. Nolan here. Cameron……………………………………………………………. down here.

  63. IOv2 says:

    Just in case some of you do not pick up on what I am putting down. Yes Cameron has given us the only good Terminator movies, Aliens, and the Abyss. Everything after T2 is, well, it’s not TDK, The Prestige, Inception, or Begins. It’s just not that… good. No matter it’s box office and that’s why at the moment, Nolan is a lot more awesome than Cameron.

  64. Shillfor Alanhorn says:

    Trust me, I’m no Cameron-lover, but Nolan could take some lessons from him in a) blocking and b) making the audience actually give a shit.

  65. IOv2 says:

    Yeah that’s the thing, the whole GIVING THE CRAP thing is you and some other people. There are a lot of people that love this film, do not find it cold, and find it’s emotions a lot more real than anything Cameron has put on film since Abyss. I hate Titanic and Avatar because they are just… meh… but I will never hate on Abyss!
    Oh yeah, BLOCKING? Nolan’s direction has never been better. Again, it’s like some of you folks saw a different movie and I find that really freaking fascinating and disturbing.

  66. Shillfor Alanhorn says:

    IO: I’m not necessarily hating on INCEPTION and, just so you know where I stand, I had a really hard time with AVATAR and TITANIC, too. But as impressive as much of INCEPTION was visually and in terms of scale, no I never gave a shit. I mainly blame lightweight DiCaprio, who is incapable of projecting either gravitas or intelligence as an actor. Shameless as AVATAR and TITANIC may be, Cameron is an expert at finding ways to make you care and at delivering “money shot” moments at the end of action setpieces. Nolan can’t seem to be bothered.
    As for the blocking dig, I was thinking more of TDK and its clunky hand-to-hand fighting scenes and the awful 3rd act x-ray vision thing in the building (though the snow fortress shootout in INCEPTION is sort of “meh,” too). Nolan is great at wide angle David Lean-type stuff, when the camera is far back from the action. Not so hot closer up.

  67. Foamy Squirrel says:

    I’ve never been able to take DiCaprio seriously as an adult character since Catch Me if You Can.
    “Do you concur?”
    “Why didn’t I concur?”

  68. Shillfor Alanhorn says:

    God bless you Foamy Squirrel.

  69. torpid bunny says:

    I thought DiCaprio was great. I loved that scene where he started yelling at JGL. He’s matured wonderfully as an actor and I really dig him. I wish the movie had given him more genuine scenes at a slower pace. The wife story was potentially fascinating and moving, but required a more lyric approach and less story overhead, instead of a frantic race to the finish.

  70. Eric says:

    Like Foamy, I have trouble taking DiCaprio seriously in adult roles. He was just right in Catch Me If You Can and even Aviator, where he was supposed to look like a brash young guy. And it’s not necessarily his performances that are the problem– he’s a decent actor but he just still looks like a young guy. He just doesn’t look like anybody I know that has a wife and kids. He’s still got a bit of a pipsqueak voice too.
    IO, was there anything you didn’t like about Inception?

  71. IOv2 says:

    Eric, I am from the middle of the country and over here we do not try to rip things apart just to rip them apart. Also, if you realize that it’s a dream then any complaint anyone has sort of goes out the window.
    Shill, again, I have no idea how we saw the same movie. Seriously. Again, I know you, torpid, and Scott are not HATING ON Inception. You seriously saw it this way and if Inception indeed a dream, it’s interesting that many of us interpreted a very different way.

  72. jeffmcm says:

    “I am from the middle of the country and over here we do not try to rip things apart just to rip them apart”
    This both obviously untrue, and completely misunderstands what people are saying about the film.
    “if you realize that it’s a dream then any complaint anyone has sort of goes out the window.”
    So the complaints about Leo’s performance (which I don’t necessarily agree with) disappear because ‘it was all a dream’?

  73. IOv2 says:

    Hello Jeff. Welcome back from wherever you were. Now, you do not know if it’s obviously untrue because there seems to be, in a lot of reviews, people searching out for a reason to dislike the film, or to find it flawed. I simply do not think this way about anything unless the flaw is so glaring that it can, figuratively, bring the whole house down.
    Again, this is may just be a Southern thing, but it would seem that other parts of the country, mainly the coast, function under a higher level of scrutiny that I just find to be nitpicky. This is not to imply that I disregard their opinions and throw them out the window. No, that would be brash. I simply take it under advisement, see as nitpicky, and move on.
    Seriously, if you have a problem with this way of thinking jeff then that’s you. I find the complaints towards this film just to be the highest of cinema snobbery that Brad Jones would be proud of them. Disagree but that’s just how it works out for now.
    Finally, anyone dissing Leo’s performance just dislike Leo.

  74. Telemachos says:

    Why does someone feel the need to trash Cameron (or Jackson or Spielberg or Ridley Scott, etc) in order to praise Nolan? Or vice versa?
    I mean, jeez, Cameron’s made some of the best genre films ever. Even his weakest films are relatively awesome. Same with the others.
    I happen to greatly enjoy all their films… and surely I can’t be the only one. Right?

  75. IOv2 says:

    Again, it has to do with the ship movie and the usb catz movie. Those sort of negate all of his awesomeness and makes someone like Nolan, who would never subject the moviegoing public to such bananas, even more awesome.

  76. jeffmcm says:

    Okay, so for IOI, his dislike of Titanic and Avatar makes the first two Terminators and Aliens suck and makes Christopher Nolan a better filmmaker . Not better in comparison, but literally all-around better. This is indeed delightful logic, especially since the two of them are such very different filmmakers.

  77. Shillfor Alanhorn says:

    Comparing Nolan and Cameron is a fool’s errand, ultimately, as they truly are apples and oranges and a comparison of the two shouldn’t have to be a zero-sum game. Nevertheless, I would argue the following: Cameron has better chops and story sense; Nolan has better taste. Cameron’s movies (the more recent ones, anyway) are dumber than he actually is; Nolan’s movies aren’t as smart as he thinks they are. If you criticize Cameron, you run the risk of being branded an anti-populist snob; if you criticize Nolan, you’re branded as “too dumb to get it.” Vis a vis Leonardo DiCaprio, Cameron, unlike Nolan, was smart enough to realize his leading man’s limitations and work within them.

  78. jeffmcm says:

    I’d agree with everything said above, except that I’d refine their ‘story sense’ abilities: Cameron is pretty much an expert at this point at pure, classical 3-act structure, but Nolan is more adventurous and has more faith in his audience’s ability to keep up with a complex narrative. And Nolan’s movies aren’t as smart as he would like them to be, but they’re still smarter than the Hollywood mean. Also, Nolan doesn’t pander/condescend to his audience nearly as much.

  79. Geoff says:

    Interesting discussion, here – hey, IO: is it possible to love BOTH Avatar and Inception? Because I do and they actually have juiced me up more than any other two movies in recent memory.
    Not saying they are the BEST movies of recent years, just films that give you a buzz, albeit for different reasons.
    Now about Cameron and his story sense – the guy is a MASTER. You think of the way Titanic and Avatar were structured – no doubt, there is some cheesiness, but wow, does the guy know how to move the story forward, build momentum, and pretty much leave no key early moment without a payoff later one. There are literally NO loose ends in his movies, it’s quite impressive.
    Think of the final climax of Avatar – Quarytch in Power Loader vs. Jake and Netyri on the whatever-thing – it’s a perfect payoff to 2 hours of little moments, introductions, elements that you almost forget and then BAM, they’re all there together fighting it out. Awesome stuff.
    Nolan is NOT as strong from a story standpoint, but he generally has more interesting and flawed characters and a less predictable story – that’s the trade-off. That scene in The Dark Knight where Tony Lister’s convict throws the detonator out the window was pretty unexpected and it’s just a great moment, the true highpoint of the movie. But, does the story really BUILD to that? And if it does, there’s still about 20 minutes of story afterwards. That said, Nolan really keeps it tightly wound with Inception but yes, his direction of action is not as masterful as Camerons.
    Now, that’s not a really a fair comparison, because I truly believe that James Cameron might actually the most masterful director ever in directing action.
    Man, I would actually love to see these two collaborate.

  80. Telemachos says:

    Geoff, I think what makes Nolan and Cameron special would also make them terrible collaborators (either with each other or anyone else)… Jonathan Nolan as co-screenwriter with his brother excepted.

  81. IOv2 says:

    Jeff, again, not everyone has to agree with you? You also missed where I gave Cameron dap in this very thread. You of course ignore this. Still a one trick pony, ey?
    Geoff, I love how you act as if there are classic scenes in Avatar. It’s so cute. Again, like what you like but there is nothing cool about USBCATZ!
    In case you are wondering, I m always down with Nolan, Mr. Wright, Bigelow, Mr. Fincher, and Misters Jones, Anderson, and Anderson.

  82. leahnz says:

    nolan is very much an englishman and his directorial sensibilities reflect that, he’s not given over to overt sentiment or emotion, he plays it fairly close to the vest.
    i’ve been having a bit of a nolan retrospective before seeing ‘inception’ tomorrow – from doodlebug to TDK (missed out ‘the prestige’ which i’ve seen a couple times) – to get my nolan groove on, and one thing that’s consistent is nolan’s treatment of character. i, the viewer, am never really invited into the emotional interiors of his characters; in nolan-world i’m invited to be a close and scrupulous observer of their condition as they ‘work something out’, solve some puzzle/crime, cover their tracks, etc, in the service of the story. even when i spend a great deal of time with and observing our protagonists, such as leonard in ‘memento’ or will dormer in ‘insomnia’, i’m not drawn inside their emotional landscape to forge a connection, i feel like i’m intended to examine the exterior looking for signs and clues, to try to figure out what they’re thinking and how they’re going to connect the dots/escape their predicament. that’s the source of the tension i feel, not so much rooted in an emotional connection to the character but in an investment i’ve made in trying to figure them out, rooting for them more from a place of intellect rather than emotion. perhaps this is why some people find nolan ‘cold’, but that’s not usually my assessment; to me it feels more like detachment, forcing the viewer to follow our protagonist just hoping for a glimpse into their psyche, and in doing so we are inextricably drawn along on their journey in a very specific and precise way (there’s a recurring shot in ‘insomnia’ that does this brilliantly, an extreme close-up of blood soaking into a bit of fabric; i don’t want to give anything away if someone hasn’t seen it but that shot and what it means and the way it’s handled is so nolan, a small thing but one of my favourite parts of that movie)
    anyway, i think this detached approach (as i see it) works well for nolan. if he suddenly tried to do ‘cameron’, whose characters wear their hearts on their sleeves and our emotional connection to them is crucial to engaging in his stories and eliciting a visceral reaction to his expertly staged gung-ho action, that would go against nolan’s innate grain and storytelling style that works for him (but not everyone i guess)
    also, i don’t think nolan has a great deal of natural flair for action, but he’s good and that’s more than you can say about many so-called ‘action’ directors these days. i sorta hope he doesn’t get shoehorned into being an ‘action jackson’ because i think nolan’s strengths lie elsewhere, but he appears to be forging his own path so i’m very curios to see what he does with ‘inception’, then i assume i’ll have a greater understanding of his action acumen

  83. dietcock says:

    Sometimes I feel like I’m Rowdy Roddy Piper in THEY LIVE! and I’m the only one who has the special glasses which reveal that Leonardo DiCaprio is a terrible actor with extremely limited range and everyone else (including, alas, Martin Scorsese) is merely drinking the Kool-Aid.

  84. IOv2 says:

    Diet, I feel like that every day of my entire life and it has nothing to do with Leo DiCaprio. It just has to do with everything. You know… life.

  85. Geoff says:

    Hey, IO, if the shoe fits – I’ll take Stephen Lang with the world’s biggest survival knife over a shirtless Taylor Lautner any day of the week.
    This is all in fun, but PLEASE just give me one “classic” scene from all three Twilight movies because as a movie lover, I would feel much more comfortable backing the Avatar horse than that one.
    And DiCaprio is ALWAYS going to have his detractors, generally men of my generation who have disliked him intensely ever since the double punch of Romeo & Juliet and Titanice in the ’90’s. But in my option, the guy has proven himself – wow, what a year he has had with Shutter Island and Inception!

  86. Shillfor Alanhorn says:

    GEOFF: In 1975, the only way Stanley Kubrick could get “Barry Lyndon” green-lit was to cast the then #1 boxoffice star Ryan O’Neal in the lead. Kubrick defended the move by saying, “I wanted someone who was shallow.”

  87. IOv2 says:

    Geoff, Twilight is as much a part of the discussion of film in the 21st century as USBCATZ!
    “On a planet with mountains in the sky!
    There lives a cat who used to be a guy!
    He and his wife now lead a united tribe!
    With the powerful tails sticking out of their backsides!
    USB CATZ! USB CATZ! USB CATZ! THEY GOT TAILS THAT ARE FIREWIRE APPLICABLE, HOW COOL IS THAT?
    USB CATZ! USB CATZ! TAKING DOWN THE INDUSTRIALIST LOOTERS AND POLLUTERS WITH USB THAT COMES OUT OF THEIR POOTERS!
    USB CATZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”
    That aside, as a movie-lover Geoff, you would not want to be a part of a tainted film like Avatar. Again, I feel for the Avatar fan that dresses like a Na’Vi at Comic-Con. Unless it’s a hot chick that poor soul, I don’t want to think about it. Here’s hoping she dresses with Ramona Flowers instead.
    My fave Twilight scenes from the SAGA…
    Twilight: When Edward Meets Bella.
    TS: New Moon: The wonderful Bella on a motorbike scne.
    TS: Eclipse: Jacob, Bella, and Edward share a tent.

  88. Geoff says:

    “My fave Twilight scenes from the SAGA…
    Twilight: When Edward Meets Bella.
    TS: New Moon: The wonderful Bella on a motorbike scne.
    TS: Eclipse: Jacob, Bella, and Edward share a tent.”
    Wow, that stuff sounds really exciting….

  89. Aladdin Sane says:

    I went to see the film for a second time last night, and was focused on figuring out what Dom’s actual totem. He uses the top for the audience, but I wasn’t convinced that was his real one, because of what Arthur said.
    I noticed that when we were in the dream world, Dom was wearing a wedding ring. In reality, he wasn’t. The only time where it is hard to tell if he is or not, is not on the plane after waking, but in his house.
    So it could be that the final sequence in the house and getting his children to turn around is him changing the memory. I tried to hear if the top stopped spinning as the music did, but people gasping etc sorta impaired that. It seems to me that Nolan impaired our vision of Leo’s left hand in the house, but until I can watch it with the pause button on the ready, I can’t say for sure. Just didn’t notice it either way this time.
    Anyhow, don’t know if any of this has been mentioned yet – I didn’t read every reply…but it’s food for thought.

  90. christian says:

    “Jacob, Bella, and Edward share a tent.”
    Bring me the smelling salts, Mother!

  91. IOv2 says:

    Geoff, a lot cooler than a goofy CGI scene that featured the LACK OF OXYGEN as a THRILLING POINT! Again, I have an army of girls and women behind me. Who do you have? David? Leah? I EVEN HAVE LEX! KNEEL GEOFF! KNEEL BEFORE ME!

  92. Telemachos says:

    IO, every time you go off I get the image of a mutant love child between Frank Booth and Harry Knowles. It was spawned in a lab and fed nothing but genre films all its life, and then it breaks out, and now it’s FREEEEEEE!

  93. christian says:

    “Again, I have an army of girls and women behind me. I EVEN HAVE LEX!”
    And they’re wondering why.

  94. That’s pretty clever, Aladdin. I plan on seeing the flick at least once more so I’ll pay attention to that. The other thing that was odd about the top as Cobb’s totem was that it was Mal’s totem and according to the rules of the film you aren’t allowed to touch each others totem’s.

  95. Telemachos says:

    Like Arthur said, Cobb explains all these rules and then breaks them all. 🙂

  96. jeffmcm says:

    Perhaps, but also according to the rules, the point of not messing with someone else’s totem is to keep them from knowing about how it works and therefore manipulating it in a dream. Since Mal is dead, that means Cobb isn’t actually breaking the rules.
    Of course, that leaves out the possibility that one might subconsciously manipulate one’s own totem…

  97. jeffmcm says:

    Also, the only thing that amazes me more than IOI’s incredibly stupidity is his incredible pride in being stupid. That ridiculous scene in Twilight when Bella and Edward first meet and neither of them act like they have any idea how actual human beings behave as a classic scene in cinema? UGH.
    At least ‘sharing a tent’ will be a fun scene in the inevitable Eclipse porn version.

  98. leahnz says:

    shut the fuck up, donnie
    and NEVER mention my name (why geoff takes shit from john leguizamo in ‘the pest’ is beyond me but yes, i’m behind him as one of two people who dug avatar – after all, we paid 1.3 billion dollars each for our ticket, 3D premium indeed!)
    i don’t normally read the spoiler threads before seeing a movie but now i have plenty of stuff to look out for

  99. Geoff says:

    “why geoff takes shit from john leguizamo in ‘the pest’ is beyond me but yes, i’m behind him as one of two people who dug avatar – after all, we paid 1.3 billion dollars each for our ticket, 3D premium indeed!”
    I appreciate the concern and solidarity, Leah, but comparing super-cool Pandora action to Bella Swan emoting in her hoodie…..just too easy to have fun with, at this point.
    But yeah – check out Inception, it’s a stone cold groove.

  100. leahnz says:

    fair enough, man
    (i’m psyched for ‘inception’ in t-minus a few hrs – i’m all fidgety and preoccupied – my only fear is that i’ve perhaps stupidly read this thread and heard the buzz and might now be complicit fodder for the over-hype machine — i guess i’ll know soon enough…i’d be thrilled to plant my flag in both the avatar and inception camp, since i’m a fan of both cam and nolan. fingers crossed)

  101. IOv2 says:

    CAN’T CONTAIN… THE RAGEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!

  102. IOv2 says:

    Oh I can.
    1) Leah leah leah leah leah leah leah leah leah. TRUCE OVER! You want the hammer smart mouth? You get the hammer! I am going to keep on telling you what to do… figuratively because it upsets you and your wee little Kiwi indignity. Martin laid the smackdown on you and the HAMMER IS GOING TO DO IT WHEN EVER YOU POST, YOU DAFFY KIWI! Yeah Avatar is so awesome. GO WATCH DANCES WITH WOLVES!
    2) Geoff, again, only an imbecile likes a remake over the original. Nothing is cooler than some Kevin Costner on horseback. Oh yeah USBCATZ FAN, Colonel Miles Quaritch! Good lord, use the google.
    3) Christian, BAH HUMBUG! The only other person on here that likes you are the two douches of the douchepocalypse. Choose more wisely in the future. Unfortunately you already look like that decay nazi sympathizer in The Last Crusade but you can always go to Atlanta and be a stand in on The Walking Dead.
    4) Tele, uh no.
    5) Finally the head douchenozzle himself wrote; “Also, the only thing that amazes me more than IOI’s incredibly stupidity is his incredible pride in being stupid. That ridiculous scene in Twilight when Bella and Edward first meet and neither of them act like they have any idea how actual human beings behave as a classic scene in cinema? UGH.”
    I am going to break my rule only this once because it’s for a good REASON! DO YOU UNDERSTAND WHY YOU ARE HYPOCRITICAL DOUCHENOZZLE ASSHOLE? THIS IS WHY!
    You go on and on about how I do not take other’s opinions seriously and all of this crap when you DO IT MORE THAN ANYONE ELSE ON THIS BLOG! Practice what you preach jeff or fuck off.

  103. IOv2 says:

    Now let’s go back to Inception spoilers or else!
    “Or else what?”
    YOU KNOW!

  104. Foamy Squirrel says:

    “Geoff, again, only an imbecile likes a remake over the original.”
    The Thing
    The Fly
    Evil Dead 2
    Ocean’s 11
    Cape Fear

  105. IOv2 says:

    Original Cape Fear is better. If you want to explain otherwise to my lady then good luck. She’s small but she’s tough.
    Original Ocean’s 11 is a different movie.
    The same goes with the Thing.
    Have you not seen the original Fly? I love Cronenberg as much as the next guy but come on Foamy.
    Evil Dead 2? Really? Do you folks down under not get into fights about Evil Dead and Evil Dead 2?
    Seriously it’s like you folks do not even try and we all know that when it comes down to Dances with Wolves and Avatar, the reference I was making Foamy but you just have to be a jerk like you always are at least KC could turn that off unlike you, whose just always a jerk of the biggest and most epic proportions. Back to the point, if it comes down to Avatar and Dances With Wolves, I think we all know which one is better. If not, then, that’s just sad.

  106. Foamy Squirrel says:

    I would point out that I’m not the one calling millions of people around the world “imbeciles”.

  107. IOv2 says:

    Dude what have I ever done to you to make you such a hater? Seriously? If you read what I wrote which you have a hard time doing, it all comes down to which one do you like more if you have seen them both. If you pick the 3D not as good as HTTYD over the Academy Award winning better written, better directed, and better acted Dances with Wolves. Yeah, that’s pretty imbecilic. Excuse me you hater jerk.

  108. IOv2 says:

    Oh yeah Mr. Hater Jerk did you miss sexist Jeff up there hating on Twilight? OH no, you can’t get on people who you agree with can you, Mr. Hater Jerk? Apparently stupid people can only enjoy Twilight but that’s okay with you because you are Mr. Hater Jerk. Seriously, pick a better side or do what Jeff should do.

  109. Foamy Squirrel says:

    I have no idea if Jeff is right or wrong about “that ridiculous scene in Twilight when Bella and Edward first meet” since I haven’t seen the movie. Why should I diss or defend if I don’t know what I’m talking about?
    On the other hand, you have to admit that 2 guys and a girl sharing a tent is a boilerplate porn scenario. It could indeed be fun.

  110. IOv2 says:

    One more time: Yeah you all hate me and love USBCATZ and Jeff loves torture porn but let’s get back to INCEPTION SPOILERS! OR ELSE!
    “Or what?”
    YOU KNOW!
    Sorry for cursing but come on, what the hell you four? What the hell?

  111. IOv2 says:

    Foamy again you bring up the imbecile comments while the guy right up there refers to me as STUPID just because he does not like the Twilight films or that great introduction scene that a guy like him would never get. That’s how people act when they are strongly attracted to one another but apparently I am STUPID for liking it.
    Again, if it comes down to Avatar and Dances With Loves, I hope Dances With Wolves wins. EXCUSE ME!

  112. Foamy Squirrel says:

    That’s because it’s a “Look! A monkey!” tactic.
    You say people are imbeciles for liking a remake over an original.
    I point out several examples of remakes that millions of people like.
    You call me a jerk.
    I point out you’re the one calling people imbeciles.
    You say “Look! A monkey!” (“Jeff called me stupid!”)
    It has NOTHING TO DO with what we were talking about. That’s why I didn’t comment on it. Him personally insulting you is between you and him – nothing to do with me.

  113. IOv2 says:

    Uh no, it has nothing to do with looking at monkeys and everything to do with the way you treat me as a commenter on this board. I clearly made a line of distinction in my post between Avatar and Dances With Wolves. Avatar being the remake of the far superior Dances With Wolves If you were not being a jerk and actually went back and followed the conversation Geoff and I had, then you would have caught on. What do you do instead? You respond like a smart ass.
    You always do this. You always respond with something clever and jerky to me, while totally missing how it makes you look like a total tool. If you want to be Mr. Clever and slam me with something, which you love doing because you have been doing this for years now, then at least try to follow the conversation you are interjecting on before being a jerk. Oh I forgot, you cannot do that and neither can those three other jerks.
    I had no problem with Geoff at all in this discussion and you four interject for no reason and just start insulting me. Leah gets angry again, Christian is just mad I used the word “twat” once and does what you do and interjects into something that he has no idea what he’s commenting on, and finally we have douchenozzle who just responds like douchenozzle. The funniest part of his post is his typo because you can tell how excited he was to insult me. Now you show up, completely ignoring the conversation that Geoff and I had, and try to be a smart ass again. Sorry, it did not work.
    What also does not work is you ignoring what you think I am doing when someone else is doing it. If you assume that I am wrong in referring to people as imbeciles then you should be just as offended when a clearly intolerant douchenozzle of a human being insults someone for liking something he does not. It’s called being FAIR and you are never fair to me and it’s not appreciated, but you are Mr. Hater Jerk most of time, so that should be expected by now by me but I have never been good with expectations.

  114. LexG says:

    Quick take on this– not the movie, but the bickering about it…
    IO, I’m totally with you on INCEPTION; It’s my favorite movie of the year, already saw it twice, maybe my favorite thing since TWBB/No Country from three years ago. Love everything about it.
    Others do not. I appreciate that you’re fighting the good fight, taking on all comers to defend a movie you love. And I wish I could say that detractors are awesome and it’s good to have a healthy debate, but being a type-A blowhard myself, I DO get actively angry when someone talks shit about MY stuff. Ebert and other bloggers have asked “Is it okay to not like Inception?” Obviously that’s a silly question, sure, but… when someone disses it, it DOES get my blood pressure worked up. But:
    At some point– and I speak from experience here– doesn’t it sort of ruin the movie a little bit to actively engage in these beatdowns of anyone who besmirches it? To where it almost contaminates the movie, and if/when you see it again, its detractors’ arguments will rattle around your head the whole time? To make it so personal, doesn’t it ruin the purity of the movie experience a little bit?
    I’m not talking about civil debate among smart movie people, carefully weighing the sides. I’m talking about going ballistic on someone for not liking it. I’ve done that a ZILLION TIMES, so I totally relate, but it’s always had the effect of taking something away from the movie.
    Few years back, ABOUT SCHMIDT was my favorite movie of 2002. Just everything about it was relatable to me, reminded me of my family and hit close to home across the board. Loved it with the fury of a thousand suns. Some detached, unemotional type dude at my office went to see it, came back and said he hated it, started nitpicking it, and I went FULL IO, MCWEENY STYLE on the poor sap in the office, swearing, blustering, doubting his intelligence, calling names.
    I felt like a total douche about it after, of course, but now for eight years when I think of this movie I once loved, now I only think of that heated fight and if I see any of the movie, all that I see are the dude’s complaints, and I never really want to watch it again, and some movie that galvanized me in 2002 is now nothing I’d ever watch again, while Minority Report and 25th Hour from that same year have long surpassed it as my fave 2002 movie.
    And TDK, same deal. I went full IO on other blogs and boards just UNLOADING on anyone who doubted even a shred of its genius. By the end of that summer, all that vitriol and impassioned shit-slinging just made me not want to talk about it anymore. It’s no fault of the movies, but whatever’s magical and singular and personal about the experience of watching a movie you LOVE becomes muted and perverted when you take on the role of crazed defender, shouting to the rafters at anyone who thinks otherwise.
    Getting that worked up about it seems to override the initial passion for the movie.

  115. Geoff says:

    Interesting, LexG – what you’re talking about with regards to TDK and About Schmidt actually sounds like Inception. Nothing can infect more than an IDEA (picture Leo’s strong enunciation)……
    IO, really no vitriol on my part and I didn’t see it coming from you….but sorry, I don’t see how Avatar is a shot-for-shot remake of Dances With Wolves, all.
    Might be silly to engage in this, but the stories are structured pretty damn differently and they also end on COMPLETELY different notes. You’re talking about an archetypical story that was around for decades before Dances With Wolves. It’s like getting all crazed in ’77 and dismissing Star Wars because of how it compares with The Hidden Fortress.
    You want to talk about screenplay issues or even the concept of the Navi as criticisms of Avatar? Fine, though I won’t agree. But the Dances With Wolves gripe is just too broad.
    And the remake gripe is a dog that just won’t hunt – The Fly, Cape Fear, Ocean’s 11, Dawn of the Dead, Scarface, The Crazies, Hamlet (pick one), the list can go on and on….

  116. leahnz says:

    the thing that unhinged io in this thread was not people discussing facets of inception they didn’t understand/like, it was the fact that geoff and a couple others could like both cameron & nolan or avatar & inception, which just could not abide in io’s mind without necessitating insults and taunts esp. to geoff, leading to bizarre twilight comparisons and the inevitable full-blown brain bleed.
    (and io, i really can’t be bothered but what are you talking about ‘truce’. again, the fact you think you can just say whatever the hell you like, comment endlessy, taunt and insult, then think you can dictate how people respond to your taunts, insults and intolerance, and then throw a hissy fit when it doesn’t conform to your wishes, is actually quite sad. also good luck with that hammer thing and “telling me what to do” because you’ve got it in your head i must not like people of the male persuasion dictating to me, when in fact gender has nothing to do with it, completely beside the point, and has everything to do with me not appreciating an egg telling me how i may and may not comment on a blog that is NOT his. and this little gem, “CAN’T CONTAIN… THE RAGEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!” so who’s angry then? me? nah, here’s a clue: it’s not me. oh the irony)
    anyway, inception. very cool.
    still processing, wrapping my head around it, enjoyed it a great deal. perhaps not as ‘holy shit!’ as i had expected but still a worthwhile mindfuck, and i was engaged the entire time.
    the drawbacks: a bit over-stuffed, could have been cleaner and sleeker; nolan can’t really choreograph a compelling gunfight to save his life, all the shooting just felt too much, too long and too arbitrary, but it was ‘dream shooting’, so…the action in general was pretty good but lacked heft and consequence and peril (except for the wire work, which was outstanding, compelling and exciting); some of the story felt like how i read it described somewhere (not sure if it was here) as a game made up by a child as they go along, possessing a certain kind of logic in the context of the rules the child is making up as they go, but being rather absurd in the context of real-world reason and logic. not sure if that makes sense but i can’t think of any other way to describe it right now, i’m knackered
    my assessment in my comment somewhere above of nolan’s treatment of character stands, further strengthened by this movie, driven for me not by an emotional connection to character (specifically cobb as the protagonist – i thought leo did the job and he’s easy on the eyes, lovely leo) and the subsequent tension that emotional engagement creates and sustains as a result of our protag being in jeopardy, but rather the usual nolan, who sets me up as a keen observer with the desire to bear witness to cobb’s journey and catharsis, whatever that may entail.
    i haven’t settled on an interpretation, but the fact that at the end cobb re-enters his house with caine and sees his children at the exact same moment that he left them – with the tykes in the exact same clothes and in the exact same place on the lawn doing the exact same thing right up until caine calls to them and they turn and we see their faces – makes the possibility that cobb is actually awake seem extremely unlikely. rather it seems cobb has merely succeeded in reshaping his ‘memory’ in limbo, where he is trapped. the warble of the spinning top would appear to confuse this interpretation somewhat, but i wonder if nolan is just fucking with us.
    mal means ‘angry’ in french. in mythology ariadne gives the thread to theseus to enable him to find his way thru the layrinth to kill the minotaur. so is any of it real, or is cobb in limbo the entire time, and the movie is his journey through the labyrinth of his subconscious, with ariadne a construct to enable him to find the thread thru the maze of his mind to kill the minotaur – mal, the angry demon of his subconscious – so that he can live in limbo in peace with the projections of his kids, which after all will seem as real to him as his real kids would…wouldn’t they?
    tom hardy is a bit of a suave mutherfucker
    love how JGL tricks super cutie-pie ariadne into giving him a sweet little kiss, aw
    great, i think i broke my brain, cheers christopher, ya big weirdo. very cool

  117. leahnz says:

    oh, ftr geoff’s comment wasn’t there before when i started typing mine

  118. IOv2 says:

    Geoff, again it’s between Avatar and Dances With Wolves. Line of demarcation. If you guys want to fight about remakes, I will draw that line as well because the remakes brought up by Foamy, in large part, are pretty much their own movie. They are not like the Wolf-Man. Seriously, Scarface and the 80s Scarface are like in two different universes. You picking that remake of the Crazies over the Crazies is another argument we are going to have because The Original Crazies is such a superiour movie.

  119. torpid bunny says:

    mal means bad or wrong in french, not “angry”. In certain contexts it can mean evil.
    Inception is reminiscent of Where the Wild Things Are in positing a dream-reality where other individuals take on manifold but indefinite symbolic significance, and the major tension is between indulging and escaping these pathological subconscious tendencies, which encode the spiritual dilemma or trauma the protagonist must navigate. Of course Cobb quite frankly confesses his guilt, a scene which I wish Nolan had given Dicaprio much more time for. Whereas WTWTH artfully manages to suggest the silent and largely unconscious processing of the boys guilt over the absence of his father.
    In both however cases the psychodrama is a bit overblown to my taste.

  120. torpid bunny says:

    Loved Tom Hardy too.

  121. yancyskancy says:

    If they do a sequel to INCEPTION, they should combine it with the sequel to another big hit, and have Marion Cotillard invade the dreams of Kevin James in PAUL BLART: MAL COBB.

  122. leahnz says:

    sorry my french is rusty. ‘evil’ it is, makes more sense anyway in context

  123. jeffmcm says:

    IOI, I’m not a hypocrite. You’re the one generally starting fights, calling people names, launching into obscenities, etc. Granted, you do it a lot less now than you did a while back, but your complaints are still the same: You start shit, then get upset when people call you out on it. This the full, literal, undeniable-by-anyone-with-a-sense-of-reality truth.

  124. IOv2 says:

    Jeff wrote; “IOI, I’m not a hypocrite. You’re the one generally starting fights, calling people names, launching into obscenities, etc. Granted, you do it a lot less now than you did a while back, but your complaints are still the same: You start shit, then get upset when people call you out on it. This the full, literal, undeniable-by-anyone-with-a-sense-of-reality truth.”
    Sense of reality? Sense of reality? Here’s a little sense of reality… you think you can get away with insulting me then get pissed when I return hardcore on you. You just love insulting me and I apparently cannot return the favour.
    You go and see if I ever started a fight. Go look. Outside of me clearly being funny and using 😀 that to state as much, people just jump on me left and right, then give me crap when I rightfully lay them out.
    You can insult me all you want but I have never started a fight on here ever insulting anybody unless they do it first, that’s how I operate. That’s how it works. You can disagree but no one has ever been cursed at who did not have it coming. I am sorry you disagree but unlike you, I am not passive aggressive, and will attack you when it’s justified.
    Seeing as David does not like the fighting around here, I reeled it back, and I would hope you’d do the same. Seeing as that’s impossible, check ya later.

  125. Lota says:

    “tom hardy is a bit of a suave mutherfucker”
    got that right, Ms En-Zed.
    I only liked Leonardo in What’s Eating Gilbert Grape? But having said that I *really* did like Inception. Minotaur…”Male parta male dilabuntur” good one.
    I actually felt more emotional about Inception than I did about Avatar somehow. I don’t dig Cameron’s “emotive” ability.
    But before the pile on, I did like Avator too.
    Inception is an awesome movie IO so you don;t have to barf all over anyone who does not share your exact ocular curvature on it.
    Ignore flame wars IO and they will soon ignore you.
    I do think people try to get you going at times, but why do you respond?

  126. IOv2 says:

    Lota, again, it is what it is but you know the same three people keep doing it again and again and you cannot throw me on the fire for this one.
    I also did not attack anyone for dislike Inception but asked honest question or responded honestly.

  127. Lota says:

    Then ignore the same three people. If they keep doing it and you don;t respond EVER then you look good and they look bad to Dave.
    It’s kinda like being in Dave’s version of Lord of the Flies, see?
    You over-respond.

  128. IOv2 says:

    I just have a hard time letting any ridiculous slight go, especially ones that are just so out of sorts. It’s a pet peeve but I will try to ignore them or hope against hope, that we can all be cool on this blog. Wouldn’t that be a change of pace?

  129. leahnz says:

    sorry, but allow me to retort, since i’m no doubt one of ‘the three demons’. i’ll point out the flaw in io’s ‘it’s not me it’s them theory’, which is this:
    using this thread as an example, io takes everyone to task for any comment questioning inception, and i mean pretty much everyone; there are 36 io comments before your conversation here, the bulk of them telling someone else something along the lines of: i don’t know what movie you were watching, i don’t get your opinion but it sure is weird, your opinion is just bizarre, we don’t scrutinise stuff here where i live. who give a shit what io thinks for 36 comments?
    then, it’s the blatant insults, in this case about avatar and cameron, then to the people who have expressed an opposite opinion, mainly geoff in this instance, whom io belittles repeatedly for liking avatar just because he feels like it, and can’t stand the fact that someone could like avatar and inception both.
    and i didn’t start ANYTHING here with io, he chose to drag me into his little avatar vendetta and belittles me for liking that movie (yet again for the zillianth time), that’s the way it went down, not the other way around as io would delude himself to believe.
    so this is the thing: io can’t just endlessly niggle, poke, insult, berate and belittle people because they like a certain movie or a certain thing or whathaveyou that he doesn’t, and expect NO RESPONSE. i’m sick to the gills of it, most recently being dragged into io’s mental ‘I HATE AVATAR’ jihad, and i’ll say so.
    so bs with the violent strings, io, you don’t seem to realise that INSULTING SOMEONE REPEATEDLY FOR LIKING SOMETHING YOU DON’T and calling them imbeciles and the like is EVERY BIT as nasty, premeditated and aggressive as insulting someone’s character directly.
    when you stop insulting people for their differing opinion, you’ll stop getting a response, simple as that. you are not a victim here, dream on

  130. leahnz says:

    uh, violin strings, that is

  131. Foamy Squirrel says:

    You can’t know many orchestras – those strings are pretty damn violent.

  132. IOv2 says:

    Engage… MCWEENY STYLE!
    “sorry, but allow me to retort, since i’m no doubt one of ‘the three demons’. i’ll point out the flaw in io’s ‘it’s not me it’s them theory’, which is this:”
    You do make things easier to quote I will give you that but I am going to point out how overly sensitive you are and you are going to give me all the rope that I need.
    “Using this thread as an example, IO takes everyone to task for any comment questioning inception, and i mean pretty much everyone; there are 36 io comments before your conversation here, the bulk of them telling someone else something along the lines of: I don’t know what movie you were watching, I don’t get your opinion but it sure is weird, your opinion is just bizarre, we don’t scrutinize stuff here where i live. who give a shit what IO thinks for 36 comments?”
    This is what you sort of do not get in your whole “DO NOT DICTATE TO ME” thing, I stir the drink. I stir it and I, unlike you, participate in the discussion. If you really thought I was insulting people, I would suggest getting a thicker skin because those are honest and innocent responses that you have twisted to your own ends, that do not even come close to representing where I came from in this thread.
    “then, it’s the blatant insults, in this case about avatar and cameron,”
    Again, you can insult anything I like and I can insult Cameron and his USBCATZ all day. Unlike you, I do not come across angry when doing so because you lack the sense of whimsy to write silly song about the Na’Vi.
    Seriously, did you miss the point in that other thread where more than just me, Mr. Poland included, pointed out how you get batcrap crazy about things that you like? See what you did there? You got upset that I goofed on Avatar and Cameron. Excuse me for upsetting your delicate sensibilities.
    “then to the people who have expressed an opposite opinion, mainly geoff in this instance, whom IO belittles repeatedly for liking avatar just because he feels like it,”
    Again, if you read things as I wrote them outside of your angry little filter of Cameron/Avatar love, you would get that Geoff and I were having a friend conversation. He teased me about Twilight and I teased him about Avatar. Unlike you, he’s a very affable human being whose fun to just discuss things with and even if he loves something I find completely lame, that does not mean I think any less of him. If only you could have that ability to be magnanimous.
    “and can’t stand the fact that someone could like avatar and inception both.”
    Again, he and I were jovial and I simply joked around with him. Goodness are we sensitive.
    “and i didn’t start ANYTHING here with io, he chose to drag me into his little avatar vendetta and belittles me for liking that movie (yet again for the zillianth time),”
    Belittle you? I could give a crap what you like and I have zero point zero control over you but for some reason, you seem to think that someone bashing Avatar is the worst thing in the world. I hate to break this to you but that’s the part of liking something. It does not mean I think you are an idiot for liking Avatar. OH I went on with the imbecile thing but really, it’s just a movie and I happen to like a similar movie more, no one is more write or wrong here. Why you think that’s how I roll demonstrates a great deal about you and has very little to do with me.
    “that’s the way it went down, not the other way around as IO would delude himself to believe.”
    It’s pretty clear that you, Christian, and Jeff seemingly take it the wrong way each and every time because apparently I am the devil for being passionate. Again, you are mistaking passion for something else that’s not coming from me and that’s you, Chris, and Jeff’s problems. If you notice, Geoff and I were fine, then you three showed up. You got all upset over a JOKE! A joke. Seriously, if you are going to be that easily offended by me then maybe you should, I don’t know, email me or IM me and ask me what my intent is because, no matter what you reply, you seem to take my two cents seriously.
    “So this is the thing: IO can’t just endlessly niggle, poke, insult, berate and belittle people because they like a certain movie or a certain thing or what have you that he doesn’t, and expect NO RESPONSE.”
    Again, did I respond to any of those people who I disagree with as if they were jerk? No. I am honestly sort of bewildered by the responses to Inception and excuse me for sharing that with people who I have posted on this board with for SIX YEARS.
    Seriously, SIX YEARS, and you still think I am the devil? Come on. If I am not cursing, if I am not hurling insults, then how am I being vicious and mean to other posters?
    The thing you seem to be forgetting is that unlike other people on here, I can respond in kind to what you throw out because it’s easy, but I am choosing not to do so and you STILL TAKE IT THE WRONG WAY. How can I win when I am honestly responding and you take it the wrong way?
    “I am sick to the gills of it and most recently being dragged into IO’s mental ‘I HATE AVATAR’ jihad, and i’ll say so.”
    Again, look up the word jocularity and realize that Geoff and I were engaging in it. The fact that you got so mad about a joke really makes me wonder what exactly I did to you that made you so mad at me. If it’s any of the above, where you are misconstruing every thing I posted as being mean when it’s not, then I have no idea what to tell you… figuratively.
    “So bs with the violin strings, IO, you don’t seem to realise that INSULTING SOMEONE REPEATEDLY FOR LIKING SOMETHING YOU DON’T and calling them imbeciles and the like is EVERY BIT as nasty, premeditated and aggressive as insulting someone’s character directly.”
    Leah, if you really believe this, then I feel sorry for you because it’s just sad. My whole life I have just liked what I liked and I will defend what I like against all comers. If you do not like it? So what? Wow, I dislike Cameron now and I really hate Avatar and that’s as bad as referring to you in a derogatory manner? No, it’s not. I define the things I love and not the other way around.
    “When you stop insulting people for their differing opinion, you’ll stop getting a response, simple as that. you are not a victim here, dream on.”
    I hate to break it to you but once you stop thinking a movie defines your character, we will be fine. It’s a movie. Avatar does not define you as much as Twilight defines me. I just like one more than the other but you seem to take epic level offense of anyone that dares question something you love, which is fine and good, but come on. That’s your problem not mine.
    You know what is also not my problem? You thinking the worst of me and believing that everything I post is secretly a jibe at fellow posters.

  133. leahnz says:

    congratulations, that is the possibly the biggest bunch of rationalisations, twisting of the facts to suit said rationalisation, outright lies and self-righteous, self-centered delusional poppy-cock i have ever read.
    unfortunately, io, when you insult people, call them names and belittle them because they like something you don’t, YOU DO NOT GET TO DECIDE HOW THEY REACT. a child quickly learns this.
    you can badmouth avatar or whatever movie you like till the cows come home, it might be annoying but so be it, personally i don’t care. what you do NOT have the right to do is insult a PERSON and degrade them for liking what you don’t like, for having a different opinion. this is a personal attack, unequivocally and without question. and this is EXACTLY what you do, over and over again, day in, day out.
    the fact that you don’t see the difference between badmouthing a movie, and insulting a PERSON for liking a movie SPEAKS VOLUMES and explains everything, really.
    get it? i didn’t think so.
    when you stop insulting PEOPLE for what they like, you won’t get a response. if you want to be a jackass and insult movies you hate, have at it. however, when you insult a PERSON and call them names for liking something you hate, you are being an asshole and YOU do not get to decide how they react. you do not get to feign innocence and do a grand ‘who, me? poor me!’ act, it’s ludicrous. YOU are the problem. stop doing this and the problem miraculously vanishes and your persecution complex goes right into the dustbin.
    hey, maybe i should start ragging on you, saying how stupid you are and lacking in knowledge about film because you like TDK in every thread, every day. maybe you’ll catch on. not holding my breath tho.

  134. christian says:

    IO, of course you come off as angry. About AVATAR of all things! You are such a professional victim.

  135. IOv2 says:

    Let us now BREAK DOWN THIS BIG OL’BAG OF LUNACY!
    “Congratulations, that is the possibly the biggest bunch of rationalizations, twisting of the facts to suit said rationalisation, outright lies and self-righteous, self-centered delusional poppy-cock i have ever read.”
    Again, this is why you and anyone who agrees with you are a bit batcrap insane about this topic, because you are stating that I am not being honest, because you know I am not being honest, and therefore I am not honest. Sorry Leah, but you are trying to rationalize your dislike for me. Keep trying. It’s fun.
    “Unfortunately, IO, when you insult people, call them names and belittle them because they like something you don’t, YOU DO NOT GET TO DECIDE HOW THEY REACT. A child quickly learns this.”
    Again, you can insult whatever I like all day long. You can insult my favourite drivers, my favourite teams, my favourite books, my favourite music, and my favourite movies but as long as you are not insulting me, then I do not care. You seem to be really invested in people not insulting the things that you like. Again, I cannot control how you react but you not seeing how this makes you look a little bit out there, is sort of scary.
    “You can badmouth avatar or whatever movie you like till the cows come home, it might be annoying but so be it, personally I don’t care.”
    Did you just read what you wrote above? You obviously do no care a great deal, enough to believe you can respond like a jerk, and it be OKAY. It’s not okay because you have no idea how I operate and you are barely functioning on a level of someone with very little knowledge and it’s funny you trying to figure out something you do not have enough knowledge to figure out.
    “What you do NOT have the right to do is insult a PERSON and degrade them for liking what you don’t like, for having a different opinion.”
    Again, you live under this weird assumption that what you like is similarly to personally insulting you, when I do not function under that weird assumption. What I like is what I like, it’s a part of me but it’s not my character but to someone like you, who lives under the ridiculous notion that WHAT YOU LIKE IS AS MUCH A PART OF YOU AS YOUR CHARACTER, then how can you I dislike something without personally insulting you? Oh I can’t and that’s your problem and not mine.
    “This is a personal attack, unequivocally and without question. and this is EXACTLY what you do, over and over again, day in, day out.”
    Again, you take this way too seriously and if I do not like something, I do not like something, and I will let it be known I do not like something like any effect done by Weta in the last ten years. They suck compared to ILM in my opinion but ol’lawdy, I INSULTED WETA AND THAT’S SIMILAR TO INSULTING YOU! OH MY GOODNESS!
    “The fact that you don’t see the difference between badmouthing a movie, and insulting a PERSON for liking a movie SPEAKS VOLUMES and explains everything, really.”
    The fact that you think badmouthing a movie and insulting a person are the same thing, speaks volumes about you, and your anger levels. There is no winning with you. If anyone dislikes something you like or love, that person is personally insulting you, and that’s just crazy.
    “Get it? i didn’t think so.”
    Whomever agrees with you wins spot the looney contest. You have pretty much given enough ammunition to anyone wanting to fight you now because you revealed your kryptonite and it all comes down to you cannot handle people insulting movies or people you like, and take it as a personal insult. Not only is that just really sad on a human level but on a posting on the internet level, it just makes you vulnerable, and a horrible poster. You now suck at the internet worse than Jeff.
    “When you stop insulting PEOPLE for what they like, you won’t get a response.”
    Again what you like is not insulting you. It’s insulting what you like or just saying; “Hey, I do not like so and so, it did not work for me, and that it that.” The fact that you cannot handle that and think it justifies your angry responses to me or anyone else, demonstrates a real detachment from the realities of the situation at hand. It’s funny that you and Jeff see this the same way. I smell a coupling coming up!
    “If you want to be a jackass and insult movies you hate, have at it. however, when you insult a PERSON and call them names for liking something you hate, you are being an asshole and YOU do not get to decide how they react.”
    You once again differentiate here by stating that I can insult movies I dislike but that I cannot insult people I dislike, when before it’s insulting a movie a person likes is like insulting that person’s character? So which one is it? Seriously I cannot win with you because you cannot even keep track of what one should be PERMITTED TO DO OR NOT. Do you get why that’s funny? Probably not so let me explain it to you: you do not like being dictated to, but here you are dictating to me. You really are a bag full of fun aren’t you?
    “You do not get to feign innocence and do a grand ‘who, me? poor me!’ act, it’s ludicrous. YOU are the problem. stop doing this and the problem miraculously vanishes and your persecution complex goes right into the dustbin.”
    I have pointed out how you are completely and utterly all over the place on this thing and how you think anyone would not be rather put out by your complete and utter randomness, is beyond me. Seriously, decide what you want to decide, then get back to me. Until then, I will continue to stir the drink and you will continue to just be a very weird lady from New Zealand.
    “Hey, maybe i should start ragging on you, saying how stupid you are and lacking in knowledge about film because you like TDK in every thread, every day. maybe you’ll catch on. not holding my breath tho.”
    Again, have I ever done this to anyone? No, I have not but you have this ridiculous set of rules that imply that AVATAR and YOU are the same thing, and how dare I insult AVATAR because then I AM INSULTING YOU. I have never ever insulted anyone’s knowledge (at least not in a straight out post and not a fight) about film or referred to anyone as STUPID (apparently a Three Stooges reference is lost on you) because they liked something. I go out of my way not to be insulting but you are the one who thinks I dragged you into this, when I joked around, and you are the one who fails to catch onto how the internet works.
    So again, you are not Avatar, Avatar sucks, that does not mean you suck for liking Avatar. Do you get it? Probably not but you seem to take this a bit too seriously and I hope you catch on and let go.
    “Posted by: leahnz at July 23, 2010 04:35 AM”
    “IO, of course you come off as angry. About AVATAR of all things! You are such a professional victim.
    Posted by: christian at July 23, 2010 08:33 AM”
    Christian, have I ever stated someone should go have sex with their mother? Did I ever state they should go have sex with a new born baby? Did I ever state that they were mentally ill? Have I ever referred to anyone as retarded? Have I ever gone on and on about people being so stupid they do not get something? Have I ever gone on about having sex with someone’s mother repeatedly?
    I can go on all day you lack of knowledge having individual but the above speaks for itself. If you think I am a professional victim then you really do not know very much about this blog.

  136. Eric says:

    For anybody who’s interested in reading an actual discussion of Inception, rather than the shitshow this thread has become, see this AV Club thread: http://www.avclub.com/articles/salt-inception-indepth,43413/

  137. IOv2 says:

    I am sorry about that Eric.

  138. leahnz says:

    i feel sorry for you, io, you are clearly impaired. some of that commentary above is scarily nonsensical.
    break it down:
    when you insult a movie/company/inanimate object because you dislike it – that is your prerogative
    when you insult the intelligence/worthiness of another PERSON who may LIKE that same movie/company/inanimate object – that is not your prerogative, that is you being an insufferable twat, and you do not get to decide how the person whom you’ve degraded reacts and then play the victim when your childish ‘but i never start it’ card doesn’t play.
    if you honestly can not understand the difference between these two examples above, then you really are in need of help. and from your moronic screed above, it would appear you actually CAN’T tell the difference.
    get it thru you head: this has nothing to do with avatar, and everything to do with you thinking you can insult people for liking something you don’t, and then believing those people have no right to respond to your wankery

  139. IOv2 says:

    Leah wrote; “I feel sorry for you, io, you are clearly impaired. some of that commentary above is scarily nonsensical.”
    Yes the nonsensical parts are all of yours. Again, I am really starting to think that I should ignore you because you really have some serious issues that you decided to share on this blog for everyone to see.
    “I will break it down:
    When you insult a movie/company/inanimate object because you dislike it – that is your prerogative
    When you insult the intelligence/worthiness of another PERSON who may LIKE that same movie/company/inanimate object – that is not your prerogative, that is you being an insufferable twat, and you do not get to decide how the person whom you’ve degraded reacts and then play the victim when your childish ‘but i never start it’ card doesn’t play.”
    Do you even know who I am? I have never ever never ever never ever questioned anyone’s intelligence or worthiness when it comes to liking anything. What you seem to be missing is that I am jovial and a enthusiastic person and that means I joke around a lot, and that means you are seemingly taking stuff the wrong way. Did you ever think that? Seriously? You, christian, and Jeff, are seeing something that’s not there and if you refuse to get that through your head, then I am sorry. I can do nothing for you because these are your problems, in your head, and not mine.
    “If you honestly can not understand the difference between these two examples above, then you really are in need of help.”
    I hate to break it to you but out of the both of us, you are the one who has come off as sad, full of contempt for someone who has done nothing to you, and full of these screeds in your head that have nothing to do with me and more to do with you. I really think that you should not be posting here because you take this stuff too seriously.
    “and from your moronic screed above, it would appear you actually CAN’T tell the difference.
    get it thru you head: this has nothing to do with avatar, and everything to do with you thinking you can insult people for liking something you don’t, and then believing those people have no right to respond to your wankery.”
    Again, you have revealed yourself to me as being a very sad person, who takes everything way too seriously, and treats what she likes as if it were a part of herself. That’s sad and I am sorry for offending you but guess what? I have never ever done a thing that you thought I have done. It never happened, if anything I responded to someone as if they were a Raiders fan, and let them know that being a Raiders fan is a crappy decision to make. If you think that’s an insult then you really have no idea how to joke with people and are taking this too seriously.
    I have been here for years. If you do not get me by now, that I am not trying to attack people and at most joking around, then you need to take a deep breathe and let it go. I did and unlike you Leah from New Zealand, I have ever reason not to, but I did. Get over it. Until you do, I am just going to ignore you. There is not going to be any response to this. This is it. Once you stop taking everything so seriously, I may respond, if not, take care.

  140. leahnz says:

    you are clearly delusional

  141. jeffmcm says:

    It’s been said before and it’ll get said again:
    IOI, your jokes DON’T WORK. Mostly because they never give the impression that they are jokes in the first place. Generally, you sound outraged and frantic in your conversations, not jolly and ebullient.
    You’re either delusional, a liar, or terrible at communicating (or some combination of the three).

  142. IOv2 says:

    Jeff wrote; “It’s been said before and it’ll get said again:
    IOI, your jokes DON’T WORK.”
    They don’t work for three people on a blog with a lot more posting. You three just seem to think the worse of me and more after the jump.
    “Mostly because they never give the impression that they are jokes in the first place.”
    Yes they do, if you do not hold any baggage over my head. If you think the worse of me, if you think that I am out to get you because I am the devil, then they do not work. If you think of me as a regular post on this blog from day one like you, then you should get the point. You never have and this goes all the way back to when you thought giving DAP to someone was an insult. You even got upset with me for stating Vegas is built on Expectations. Again much like with leah, this seems to be about you and not about me, and until you realize that it has nothing to do with me, then we will be cool.
    “Generally, you sound outraged and frantic in your conversations, not jolly and ebullient.”
    Generally you come across as an authoritative ahole, who thinks his own crap does not stink, and does not get that though he may be fun in real life. On here, online, your acerbic wit and your intolerance just makes you read like a Douche. Again, has anyone on here ever threatened to punch me? No. Has someone threatened to punch you? Yes. You even chickened out when Lex offered to hang out with you, so you remain the douche magouche of this board.
    “You’re either delusional, a liar, or terrible atccommunicating (or some combination of the three).”
    Here’s the problem: you either believe I am delusional, a liar, or terrible at communicating. Where’s the whole “Hey he’s being honest” part of this? Oh I know, you think very lowly of me and refuse to see any good in me, and that’s the problem… you. If you three want to think of me that way then that’s you three, but I assure that I am being honest. If you cannot take my word then you really are more despicable than Gru could ever hope to be.

  143. christian says:

    Maybe this is Limbo.

  144. mdana says:

    Millions of People Can

  145. Foamy Squirrel says:

    “Millions of People Can

  146. IOv2 says:

    Foamy, it’s v2 because David apparently wanted it to be v2. Mdana also stated that he has been reading this blog for a while. He knows the history and once again represents why he’s the best Dana since Dana Hall. He’s also right but do not let a little thing like that get in the way.
    You also seem to never get the point I am trying to make Foamy, then respond to me by insulting me. I have explained three times what I meant with the remake thing but you still try to justify yourself by acting as if I did not explain that away three times.
    Now onto this; “Regarding ‘group think’ vs. IO – there’s a reason IO’s name is now ‘IOv2’, so yes there is history that Mdana missed.”
    Already explained, keep reading!
    “A lot of that history is why many people give IO a hard time, but IO – you do exacerbate the problem with your reactions.”
    Again, those people that give me a hard time, give me a hard time because they do not let things go. Go read my response to Christian above and then go find anywhere where I have ever been that bad. You folks supported people who have posted things worse than I ever have and that means you exacerbate the problem, not me. If you, I don’t know, took my side when I have been clearly wrong, then we would not have a problem, but you can never do that because as stated above… I am the devil and must be punished.
    “Personally, this is the third time you’ve made a wildly generalized assertion, I’ve responded by supplying a list of counterexamples with no extra commentary, and you’ve responded by personally insulting me. That’s not cool – and it’s why 90% of threads you’ve commented in recently have ended up discussing you rather than the subject at hand.”
    Again, your counterexamples are there to insult me. I am sorry but this pattern has been proven correct by the way you treat me. We had an argument during the freaking 24 hours of Le Man where you basically put out on the table you were doing it just to be mean.
    What you also seem to forget is that you make counterexamples to a point I make, while completely ignoring the point i made! If that’s not a personal attack on me in a very snide and snarky way, then what is? If you are being honest with me and you are just siting examples without taking a piss on me then I believe you.
    “As several people have suggested – don’t bring it personal. If Jeff or Leah want to attack you, stick with the subject at hand… if they takes it further then everyone can see they’re the douches. If you fly off the handle ranting about “USBCATZ” then people will think you’re one instead.”
    Again, USBCATZ is a funny. The theme song should have been nominated for an Grammy. Nevertheless they have always been the douches but I apparently always get the bad rep and that’s why Mdana is right. You also choose to turn against me because I stand out and I have to take the heat. It is what it is because that’s how it goes.

  147. IOv2 says:

    When I am not clearly wrong, KEEP READING!

  148. IOv2 says:

    Oh yeah, that seems too snide and snarky for me, especially given Foamy seemingly being a good bloke in his response to me. Sorry for the snark, if someone could get my side occasionally that would be nice Foamy, but I am going to try to let it go even more and be a lot nicer.

  149. christian says:

    “Also; who the fuck would want to come to this blog? It’s riddled with bitches, cunts, and dicks. Hell. There are not enough assholes for the dicks to fuck. The dicks are only left to fucking the bitches and the cunts, but craving assholes. So, really, it’s a fucking bullshit blog, filled with people WHO ATTACK MOTHERFUCKERS LEFT AND RIGHT, then FAIN LIKE THEY ARE INNOCENTS!”
    I’m glad there’s a Version 2.

  150. IOv2 says:

    Wow. There’s a joke from a Kevin Smith movie right in there and you totally and utterly missed it Christian. Poor Kevin Smith. Someone referred to him as irrelevant this week and he went off on Twitter. No, Christian, totally misses a Kevin Smith joke in an old post. Tear.

  151. Foamy Squirrel says:

    “Again, your counterexamples are there to insult me. I am sorry but this pattern has been proven correct by the way you treat me. We had an argument during the freaking 24 hours of Le Man where you basically put out on the table you were doing it just to be mean.”
    Assuming that you are making a point and there are counterexamples that demonstrate that your argument is inaccurate, the least insulting way to provide those counterexamples is without commentary. If you find counterexamples by themselves insulting, then I suggest that the problem is with you.
    And for the record, I never “put out on the table” that I was doing anything to be mean. You accused me of being mean, and I ignored it because the evidence did not support your argument.
    I think you’re a smart guy that has some good insights – but those insights are sometimes muddled in how you write about them, and you tend to get personal rather than try to clarify. You can change how you write; you can’t get other people to change how they read.

  152. IOv2 says:

    There’s no reason to clarify if people do not get it the first time. Seriously, if you do not like my writing, you do not like my writing, and there’s nothing I am going to do to change that. It is what it is. I will go out of my way not to curse or to go on the attack but really, if you read it as muddled like jeff does, then I simply cannot win, and will just do my best and hope that’s enough.

  153. Foamy Squirrel says:

    Fair enough – can’t ask much more than that.

  154. Joe Leydon says:

    Saw Inception today. Have to rank it with The Secret in Their Eyes and Get Low as my favorites of 2010 so far.

  155. WillRiel (aka CleanSteve) says:

    Wish I’d seen INCEPTION last week so I could have gotten in on the thread earlier. But still lots to comment on, even if this doesn’t get read.
    Loved the movie. I semi-apologize to Faraci. Semi, only, because I do not believe you can call anything a “masterpiece” from viewing, aside from boobs. I don’t know how many viewings it takes for a person to really define what they think of a movie, but I know for me it’s been about 3 viewings. That’s how it normally works, oddly enough. If a movie still grips me and makes me feel something then it’s I can sort of judge it within my own cinema history. That doesn’t mean I think Billy Madison is a masterpiece because it still makes me laugh after countless viewings. But I can say that, to ME, Boogie Nights is a masterpiece. The Wrestler is a masterpiece.
    And masterpiece can mean different things. It doesn’t mean “perfect” to me. It’s more an emotional, gut reaction. The only movies I consider masterpieces are those that moved me enough to change me in one way or the other. Jaws. Halloween. Alien. Aliens. RoboCop. Goodfella. Last Picture Show. Raising Arizona. Gremlins (yes, Gremlins).
    Anyway, it’ll be a while before I can say it’s a masterpiece, but that’s me.
    Back to INCEPTION. I’ll be quick because a lot of people have already said a lot that I don’t need to repeat. It think is very, very well-written. I never found the exposition boring, because it set me up AND it was delivered by one of the best casts I can remember in a long time. JGL steals it for me. He was the epitome of cool, and hope he moves on to bigger and better things. Leo was good, but I think he’s become enough of an icon to lots of people so you can go with him despite him, maybe, being a bit too “samey.” Hate on TITANIC. Fine. But he was great in the film, full of life and energy, cliched part or not.
    Gilbert Grape might still be his best work. But…whatever. I feel the cast sold the exposition, and a well-cast movie can overcome being short on character stuff, especially here. I love Watanabe.Didn’t realize his part was so big. Loved Dileep Rao since Drag Me To Hell. Very charming guy. Gotta admit I TOTALLY missed Berenger. My bad.
    I counter the “it’s not as smart as it thinks it is” arguments by saying I think it’s as smart as it NEEDS to be. It is not trying to be a complex sorta art-film, I guess. It’s an action movie first. Then it lays out a clear, easy to story that simplifies rather than dumbs down. part of that is simply about playing to mainstream moviegoers as well as geek/cinephiles, etc. I felt this way about Avatar’s story in that it IS simple and unsurprising, but needs to be in order for a lot of people to take in the visuals and world. And to make billions. But I don’t want to get in IOv2’s tornado of terror so I’ll stop at that.
    The action, at times, was tough to follow. But Nolan is getting better at the fight scenes. I think his chase scenes are aces. The BatMobile chase in Begins is one of my faves.
    What I don’t understand is WHY so many filmmakers choose to shoot those scenes so close-up. What are they going for? They can see it their heads, of course, but what makes a filmmaker choose to literally crop the field of vision? Does he not trust his blocking skills? Or is it about going for something else that’s not translating? Trying to do too much, or make the fights more complicated than they need to be, and thereby having to shoot/cut that way to get in what they want to get in?
    I dunno. But I will say the last hour builds and was very exciting as it was. It amped up the tension, and obstacles like in the right manner.
    The ending? I think it still spins, but there are many other ways to look at it. I haven’t thought through it enough but liked reading a lot of what I saw here.

  156. WillRiel (aka CleanSteve) says:

    A few more things:
    Johnny Marr. Missed that, but been a Smiths fan since 1985. Morrissey’s solo stuff hasn’t interested me since Your Arsenal, but I’ve followed Marr as he’s made his name as maybe the greatest session man of the last 20 years. The Healers were shit, but loved his work with Neil Finn on Finn’s live cd.
    And one of the hugest concert moments in my life was Marr joining REM for an encore of Fall On Me at the Chicago show in 2008 (Modest Mouse opened, along w/ The National). I about peed my pants.
    IOv2: who cares? The dude doesn’t like Avatar. I’m in Leah’s camp. I don’t post here as much as Leah and others but I just don’t give a crap about what anybody else thinks. I think you eventually grow to that point. I am NOT making assumptions about anybody’s age or maturity. But I’m almost 40, and when I was younger I would hen and haw about movies I thought sucked, music I hated, and did it to anybody and everyone I could. And that was pre-internet.
    Eventually, I just lost interest. I decided to focus my energy on enjoying what I like, and let others enjoy, too. Life’s too short. I think Twilight is utter, utter shit. But that’s as far as I go. Lots of people enjoy it. Good for them. I move on.
    I defended Avatar a lot to friends, and on sites elsewhere. I never changed anybody’s mind but it did serve to help me form and understand why I liked it so much. So that was worth it. I think you should try and take that from these conflicts/debates. I’ve tried to convince people that U2 is still great and relevant. I’ve tried to convince people The Simpsons is still good. I have failed, but doesn’t change what I think.
    IOv2, I am NOT implying you’re just young and full of piss and vinegar, so don’t take it that way. I don’t know you. Maybe your 75 years old. Don’t know. I know you hate Avatar, and you’ve talked about why, and ok. I get it. And you will continue to remind everybody here. That rubs some wrong, mostly people you call out, or who call you out. In that way it gets MADE personal, even though it ISN’T personal. This is not longer about Avatar. It’s just used as an excuse for blog-fights.
    And I just wanna say….rock on! It’s funny, but gets a little silly. have YOU converted one person?
    I don’t know what I’m trying to say here. I guess just point out that I can love Avatar, love Inception, hate Twilight, and not really fucking care what a guy on the internet, or even my wife (Avatar hater) thinks.
    Coexist, bitches!!!

  157. Foamy Squirrel says:

    Re: Inception vs. Avatar – I see Avatar like a really good burger. Patty cooked just right, fresh salad, tangy sauce, and a few hints of zesty spices to give it enough depth to be noticeable without being overwhelming. It’s not high cuisine – it’s something familiar done really well.
    Inception, on the other hand, is like one of those dishes from Iron Chef. Something exotic and daring, that could be a complete misfire unless the chef gets the blending exactly right. And it shows a strong central “theme” that runs through the dishes/movies that are a signature auteur style.
    I found some of the internal logic in Inception to be broken – dying sends you up a level… unless you’re sedated in which case it sends you down to limbo… unless the plot dictates you only go down one level… except injuries follow you down so they should keep pushing you further and further… wait, what? It was broken at the point of “dying in a dream while sedated sends you to limbo” since under that logic there should be hundreds of people waking up insane every day from alcohol-induced blackouts alone.
    I think the teaser at the end was to signify that it doesn’t matter to Cobb whether the totem falls or not – it’s set up as the antithesis to Mal’s Inception. Mal can’t accept that the reality that she currently occupies is the true reality, so she’s continually striving to move on. Cobb has let go of his neuroses and so has already “finished the train journey” – he’s accepted the current reality.

  158. WillRiel (aka CleanSteve) says:

    Avatar is underwritten. And some of the lines are awful. Cameron can still construct a story like a pro, but he needs help with the rest. I think there are a lot of interesting ideas under the surface, and surprised that the idea of the USBCATS (lol) being, essentially, very religious and faith driven, wasn’t made more of by people especially as Cameron’s a hardcore atheist.
    That stuff could have been interwoven into the story more, and there are things that could have been better. But I like it. Life goes on.
    Cameron is still, maybe, the best action director on the planet. I can’t think of anyone who could have pulled of the scale of the battles in Avatar, whether you like the movie or not, aside from Peter Jackson.
    I would prefer Cameron not spend another 6 years or so on 2 Avatar sequels. Or at least do as Nolan has done, and fit something original in between the franchise.

  159. IOv2 says:

    Now it’s time for… CHIHUAHUA STYLE!
    “A few more things:
    Johnny Marr. Missed that, but been a Smiths fan since 1985. Morrissey’s solo stuff hasn’t interested me since Your Arsenal, but I’ve followed Marr as he’s made his name as maybe the greatest session man of the last 20 years. The Healers were shit, but loved his work with Neil Finn on Finn’s live cd.”
    Hold on, let me get this right: you are bagging on Moz and Twilight? Really? I really am not starting to like you.
    “And one of the hugest concert moments in my life was Marr joining REM for an encore of Fall On Me at the Chicago show in 2008 (Modest Mouse opened, along w/ The National). I about peed my pants.”
    Nice.
    “IOv2: who cares? The dude doesn’t like Avatar. I’m in Leah’s camp. I don’t post here as much as Leah and others but I just don’t give a crap about what anybody else thinks. I think you eventually grow to that point. I am NOT making assumptions about anybody’s age or maturity. But I’m almost 40, and when I was younger I would hen and haw about movies I thought sucked, music I hated, and did it to anybody and everyone I could. And that was pre-internet.”
    Oh I will rage and rage and rage against… [holds nose].
    “Eventually, I just lost interest. I decided to focus my energy on enjoying what I like, and let others enjoy, too.”
    Again it all comes down this: if you are going to bag on something I like while praising something that’s horrible, then I am going to shake my fist. Shake it I tells ya!
    “Life’s too short. I think Twilight is utter, utter shit. But that’s as far as I go. Lots of people enjoy it. Good for them. I move on.”
    Yeah you watch Avatar! HOOAH!
    “I defended Avatar a lot to friends, and on sites elsewhere. I never changed anybody’s mind but it did serve to help me form and understand why I liked it so much. So that was worth it. I think you should try and take that from these conflicts/debates. I’ve tried to convince people that U2 is still great and relevant. I’ve tried to convince people The Simpsons is still good. I have failed, but doesn’t change what I think.”
    Well U2 are trying too hard but I still love them. Anyone who hates on FOX Sunday night gets a fist shaking, and good luck with that Avatar thing. Not a lot of Na’Vi at Comic-Con and that’s that… DON’T CRY FOR ME PANDORA!
    “IOv2, I am NOT implying you’re just young and full of piss and vinegar, so don’t take it that way. I don’t know you. Maybe your 75 years old. Don’t know. I know you hate Avatar, and you’ve talked about why, and ok. I get it. And you will continue to remind everybody here. That rubs some wrong, mostly people you call out, or who call you out. In that way it gets MADE personal, even though it ISN’T personal. This is not longer about Avatar. It’s just used as an excuse for blog-fights.”
    In case you haven’t figured it out, I am being silly right now but gosh darn it, I love goofying on Avatar. FUN TIMES! FUN GLORIOUS TIMES! Now I am going to cry.
    “And I just wanna say….rock on! It’s funny, but gets a little silly. have YOU converted one person?
    I don’t know what I’m trying to say here. I guess just point out that I can love Avatar, love Inception, hate Twilight, and not really fucking care what a guy on the internet, or even my wife (Avatar hater) thinks.
    Coexist, bitches!!!”
    Your life is an amazing woman! MOZZELTOFF!

  160. IOv2 says:

    that should be wife.

  161. leahnz says:

    catching up on this thread:
    nice to have someone in my bloody camp. i make the best fucking smores on the entire plate and my camp is tough but fair, always
    i will once again point out re: io and his avatar jihad:
    i couldn’t give a rat’s ass if io despises avatar with every fibre of his being, it’s everyone prerogative to hate whatever they damn well please. the ONLY issue for me personally in this matter is that in just about EVERY SINGLE DISCUSSION io participates in about avatar in which i have no prior part, he mentions me by name in some derogatory manner. every single time. without fail. and again in this thread. read it and weep. and this is as blatant a personal attack as anything that goes on here. so perhaps people who think i just come out of the blue to ‘attack’ poor io should read more carefully.
    and the grand irony of io’s obsession with involving me in his avatar jabs:
    i am perhaps the ONE fucking person on this blog who has not given him shit for his ‘twilight’ love, because i NEVER, EVER berate people for the movies they like and insult their person for their taste, and i challenge anyone to find a single example to the contrary
    and mdana, you admit you haven’t read the threads and don’t know the history of io and avatar, and yet you feel confident to write a manifesto on it? also, this is not some rabid pro-avatar blog, which makes your ‘poor io’ comment that much more bizarre. and this:
    “Avatar was not a good movie in a traditional movie sense”
    really? that’s an awfully authoritative statement. perhaps you should SPEAK FOR YOURSELF
    back on topic: i’m surprised at how many people i’ve talked to since seeing ‘inception’ did not particularly like it, thought it was just a big overblown mess rather than a hot mess

  162. WillRiel (aka CleanSteve) says:

    I think I’m one of the few that DOES see you’re having fun with the Avatar bashing. And that’s fine with me. I even think USBCATS is kinda funny.
    I guess that was my point. Not everyone here is rattled by it, but it sure seems like it sometimes, at least to me. But every blog/message board develops dynamics just like a family. This one no different. How odd.
    Rage on, dude. I suppose your explanation that “if you are going to bag on something I like while praising something that’s horrible, then I am going to shake my fist” works for me, even though I have tried to not do that anymore. Granted, when I see a fucker pick up a Lady Gaga CD while Together by New Pornographers is right fucking there, and a million time better, more creative and beautiful….yea, I’d like to shoot that person.
    But I don’t. I will say the world needs idealists like you. I commend you.
    And my wife is awesome. But she also hated In the Loop, and has no appreciation for the genius of John Carpenter so….our marriage has problems.

  163. leahnz says:

    re: avatar, cleansteve, i refer you to my comment above. i don’t care if io avatar-bashes, i do care that he feels inclined to involve me every single time in the process

  164. IOv2 says:

    In the Loop is pretty frakkin awesome. I also love anyone hyping the New Pornographers. Good on you sir. GOOD ON YOU!
    Leah, I didn’t bring you up this time and I won’t ever again because it obviously pisses you off, and it’s not nice to upset anyone like that. So again, sorry for that Leah. See what I did there? I WENT OLD SCHOOL BY STARTING AND ENDING A PARAGRAPH WITH THE SAME WORD AND THIS TIME IT’s A NAME! BOOYAH!

  165. WillRiel (aka CleanSteve) says:

    Leah, I can see him mentioning you/baiting you as something that would annoy you. I understand that. I’d come out and defend myself too. And I can still understand vehemently defending a film even though it’s something I only do in rare instances.
    So, yea, it’s been made personal one way or the other. It’s less about Avatar than it is attacking and getting a rise out of other posters.
    I’m not in the business of lecturing anyone because I have nary a leg to stand on. But for me, when I post here, I skip the stupid shit, the rants, the obvious silliness, and stay with the subject or something related that interests me. That’s on strategy.
    Then again, I don’t get called out by name like you do, as I’ve seen myself so it’s different.
    I guess I have no solution. I’m just a bleeding-heart lefty trying to bring peace to the blog, and understand the other side, like Jake Scully did.

  166. IOv2 says:

    In the Loop is pretty frakkin awesome. I also love anyone hyping the New Pornographers. Good on you sir. GOOD ON YOU!
    Leah, I didn’t bring you up this time and I won’t ever again because it obviously pisses you off, and it’s not nice to upset anyone like that. So again, sorry for that Leah. See what I did there? I WENT OLD SCHOOL BY STARTING AND ENDING A PARAGRAPH WITH THE SAME WORD AND THIS TIME IT’s A NAME! BOOYAH!

  167. WillRiel (aka CleanSteve) says:

    I gotcha, Leah. Wasn’t trying to minimize how annoyed it can be to feel baited or attacked. Was trying to formulate some sort of way to minimize it, because this blog got de-railed, and I had waited a week to see Inception and get in here. Was disappointed that much of the discussion had nothing to do with it.
    The New Pornographers show I saw in Milwaukee last month is the highlight of my year.
    Common ground, IO. Peace is built on common ground.
    “That was a waste of 2 hours,” says my wife after In The Loop. And she’s a PhD student. Supposed to be smart. WTF???

  168. IOv2 says:

    Oh yeah just to clarify: I called Leah out by name in here as a joke about who got Geoff’s side in a fight. It then got all blown out of proportion.

  169. WillRiel (aka CleanSteve) says:

    Fair enough, IO. I didn’t get every detail.
    It’s all good.

  170. leahnz says:

    sorry, but being a dick and then saying, “but i was joking!’ is internet blog codswallop. so anyone can say whatever nasty shit they want and then when they get called out on it think they can say, ‘i was just joking!’ and that excuses it? bullshit. anyone can say that after the fact, it could be a complete lie and it doesn’t excuse a thing

  171. IOv2 says:

    Leah, you’ve got to let it go and you got angry over a reference I made to Geoff about who would be on his side, and now you got mad all over again. Again, hate to break it to you, but I am always joking. If you knew me in the real you would get this but seeing as how I have been posting here for six years, that should be common place by now.
    Again, you got pissed at me for referring to you as an Avatar fan and I did not even do it in a derogatory way. Seriously this is what I meant by not being able to win with you because if you really believe this; “it could be a complete lie and it doesn’t excuse a thing”, then who can win with you? No one can joke about anything online? Really? William up there got it but again some of you think I am the devil and whose fault is that? Not mine! When I state I am joking while I am posting then guess what? I AM JOKING!

  172. leahnz says:

    io, give me a break. you’ve been banned here i don’t know how many times for acting like a complete fucking psycho ragemaster to multiple people including the blogowner, so spare me the innocent routine, i’m not buying it precisely BECAUSE i’ve been here that long to know better. i’ve been here long enough to know your nasty little avatar jabs are exactly that, this is not some isolated incident, so spare me the “william up there got it” routine. pull your inane crap with him incessantly and then you can take it up with william (no offence to cleansteve, naturally) and see if he thinks your hilarious like you’d like to have people believe after you brow-beat them and pass it off as funnytime. please. insult people at your peril, you do not get to decide how people react to your bizarre antics

  173. leahnz says:

    oh just ftr, please point out where you’ve indicated “YOU ARE JOKING” whilst brow-beating people in this thread, and NOT AFTER THE FACT making excuses? i’ve just scanned the comments and i’m a fairly proficient speed reader, thinking i’ve missed something, and i certainly didn’t see it

  174. IOv2 says:

    CHIHUAHUA TIME!
    “Io, give me a break. you’ve been banned here i don’t know how many times for acting like a complete fucking psycho ragemaster to multiple people including the blogowner, so spare me the innocent routine.”
    Leah, Christian posted something in this thread that is a joke from a Kevin Smith film. He obviously that I was being serious and so did you and again that’s not my fault.
    Jeff has always gone on about the jokes not working and my response is still this to you or anyone else: they do not work for you because you hold on to a grudge or think I am the devil. Read what you just wrote about me then realize cursing someone out, even on a blog, is not as bad as stating someone should go screw a baby. Especially when the person who did that, hid it in a thread and I stumbled across it on a complete chance. Again, when I type something truly mean and vicious, when I wish death on someone, then get back to me. Until then, you are the one over reacting to someone cursing and I may have overreacted as well but you are not an innocent either, and you tend to forget this.
    “I’m not buying it precisely BECAUSE i’ve been here that long to know better. I’ve been here long enough to know your nasty little avatar jabs are exactly that, this is not some isolated incident,”
    Please point out to me how this is a jab: “Geoff, a lot cooler than a goofy CGI scene that featured the LACK OF OXYGEN as a THRILLING POINT! Again, I have an army of girls and women behind me. Who do you have? David? Leah? I EVEN HAVE LEX! KNEEL GEOFF! KNEEL BEFORE ME!”
    Where’s the jab Leah? Oh I forgot, I REFERRED TO YOU AS A FAN OF A MOVIE THAT I LOATHE LIKE I LOATHE BARRY BONDS BUT YOU LOVE IT, and that’s a bad thing how?
    “So spare me the ‘William up there got it’ routine.”
    William aka Clean Steve has been posting here for a long time and unlike you, he does not think everything is an attack and he also loves Avatar. Again, for your argument to be true, you would have to prove my maliciousness, which you can’t. All you can prove is that you got upset that I cursed at you and guess what, you probably deserved it, but I apologize if it makes you feel better.
    “Pull your inane crap with him incessantly and then you can take it up with william (no offence to cleansteve, naturally) and see if he thinks your hilarious like you’d like to have people believe after you brow-beat them and pass it off as funnytime.”
    Who am I brow beating? I am not god of this blog even if I stir the drink. Who do I brow beat? It looks like if anything, you and some other people BROW BEAT me, and I am gracious enough to try to settle this beef with you. A beef that we have because you, not me, you, think I am lying. Seriously, I have put this 😀 emoticon in countless post to Jeff as a way of stating that “Hey, I am just being tongue and cheek here”. How does he respond? “I don’t know what that means. You are just being rude.” No I am not. It’s called being cheeky. I will admit to being cheeky but everything else, every fight we have gotten into where you have insulted me worse than I did you, because cursing and insults are two different things to me, but that’s besides the point. This is your problem not mine. If you think I am out to hurt people then you are really really wrong.
    “Please. insult people at your peril, you do not get to decide how people react to your bizarre antics.”
    My bizarre antics that you over inflate in your head. Again, Leah, where is the insult to you here? “Geoff, a lot cooler than a goofy CGI scene that featured the LACK OF OXYGEN as a THRILLING POINT! Again, I have an army of girls and women behind me. Who do you have? David? Leah? I EVEN HAVE LEX! KNEEL GEOFF! KNEEL BEFORE ME!” That’s what got you upset and ruined this thread for everyone. Where’s the slight? Wow I brought up a film I don’t like but that you are a fan and would support Geoff in a fight. Where’s the slight Leah?

  175. leahnz says:

    please io, your deluded little spin machine is in full gear, i’ll give you that.
    would you like me to hold your hand and go back to find every single comment you’ve made re: your freakish avatar vendetta, in which i’ve had no prior involvement and in which you’ve named me OUT OF THE BLUE in some derogatory manner as one of the few stupid people who likes a movie that in your warped mind nobody who knows about film likes? and there have been LOTS.
    well, do it yourself, Q-tip. this is but the icing on a very, very long cake in which you’ve made derogatory comments involving me as an avatar fan with no prompting of any kind from me and i think you know it, but since you’re floating down that river in egypt you’ve convinced yourself are always a blameless victim. pretty nifty trick but sell it somewhere else, i think you’re full of shit, it’s that simple, not rocket science. and your penchant for insulting and brow-beating PEOPLE that like things you don’t – or don’t like something you do (ie TDK) – is epic, i’m not the only one by a long shot.
    (and you denying that you were in a rage when you wrote that comment christian quoted is absolutely classic. just how stupid do you think we are? we were here when it happened and fully aware of the context. who are you trying to kid?)
    and then this absolute gem: “That’s what got you upset and ruined this thread for everyone.”
    your complete and utter lack of self-awareness and responsibility for ANYTHING that happens on this blog is stunning, but not at all surprising given your track record. enough already.
    you know the most annoying thing about you in this thread?your inane commentary for nearly 40 comments in which practically everyone else is weird and strange and nit-picky because they have a differing opinion from you, and the fact that you think anybody wants to read your contradictions of practically everybody, or gives a shit what you think to that degree. there’s participation and then there’s SATURATION.
    you go on about how people come here for you and you bring up the hit count on the blog; i don’t know if that’s true but if it is, did you ever stop to think the hit count goes up because every second comment is you?

  176. IOv2 says:

    “Please io, your deluded little spin machine is in full gear, i’ll give you that.”
    Again, three posters compared to everyone else. There’s no spin. There’s just you.
    “Would you like me to hold your hand and go back to find every single comment you’ve made re: your freakish avatar vendetta, in which i’ve had no prior involvement and in which you’ve named me OUT OF THE BLUE in some derogatory manner as one of the few stupid people who likes a movie that in your warped mind nobody who knows about film likes? and there have been LOTS.”
    Please point them out and if they are real, I will apologize, but I will almost guarantee you that you have overreacted like you did with the joke above.
    “Well, do it yourself, Q-tip.”
    This reminds me of Public Enemy for some reason.
    “This is but the icing on a very, very long cake in which you’ve made derogatory comments involving me as an avatar fan with no prompting of any kind from me and I think you know it, but since you’re floating down that river in egypt you’ve convinced yourself are always a blameless victim.”
    Wow, I am teasing you. Have you never had anyone tease you for liking something? Seriously, you like Avatar, good for you, but it’s Avatar. You like Weta more than ILM. Seriously, I am going to tease you about this stuff and if you do not get that I am just being cheeky, especially if there’s no cursing and I state as much, then you once again have the problem with me when I have no problem with you.
    Again, I could just ignore this, ignore you, and treat you like an ahole, when instead, I am trying to work things out with you. If you do not get that I am trying here and being honest with you, then what more can I do?
    “pretty nifty trick but sell it somewhere else, I think you’re full of shit, it’s that simple, not rocket science. and your penchant for insulting and brow-beating PEOPLE that like things you don’t – or don’t like something you do (ie TDK) – is epic, I’m not the only one by a long shot.”
    Yeah, it’s you, Christian, and Jeff who seemingly got really offended about cursing on a blog where only adults post. Sorry. Again, Christian posted a joke from a Kevin Smithy film as if I were serious and you don’t think there is a misunderstanding going on here?
    You also have to be one of the most guarded people on the planet, to still not accept someone is being nice to you and trying to work out their differences. Seriously, point out to me where I am lying to you? You are the one who does not believe me because you got hurt? Lady, everyone in here has hurt my feelings occasionally but you just let it go. It’s not fun to have someone insulting your mom time and time again when you are not even arguing with them but you seem to think I deserve it even when I did not do anything.
    Seriously, you know why I fought for TDK? David hated it. You know why I fight for anything on here? Someone is hating it and I am trying to figure out why. You seem to think I am trying to make someone submit to me or some garbage, and that’s not even the case. I do not work that way. The way I work is like this: there’s a problem and I want to find a solution for it.
    Now, I admit that on occasion I have taken the wrong tact and probably took the wrong tact with you in this thread, however, I am always about figuring things out, and if I ask a question about how someone saw something differently. It’s not to insult them or to state their opinion is wrong but to honestly get an answer from them as to why they saw it that way. Seriously.
    “(and you denying that you were in a rage when you wrote that comment christian quoted is absolutely classic. just how stupid do you think we are? we were here when it happened and fully aware of the context. who are you trying to kid?)”
    Again this is ALL YOU. That’s a freaking joke in a KEVIN SMITH movie that I had probably just seen before that happen. Do you not even get into a fake rage ever? I could have been pissed, I am not sure, but it was probably a mix of both. More like the joking dickish kind because, hold on it’s coming back to me, you and Scoot were being jerky to me and I unleashed. Again, I didn’t start that fight, you probably did, and I responded in kind. You just happen to think I should just take your garbage and that’s ridiculous. If you don’t have to take mine, why do I have to take your’s? Again, there’s NO WINNING WITH YOU!
    “And then this absolute gem: “That’s what got you upset and ruined this thread for everyone.”
    your complete and utter lack of self-awareness and responsibility for ANYTHING that happens on this blog is stunning, but not at all surprising given your track record. enough already.”
    Again, you insult me and my self-awareness while ignoring WHAT HAPPENED. It’s right there Leah. Geoff and I, even Jeff, where having a discussion then you blew up and Christian blew up, and I responded in kind. Again, I admit, that I should have tried a different tact but how can you even write something this oblivious to something that’s ON THE SAME DAMN PAGE! Seriously, your track record for being angry for no damn reason is well known around here but you are bring up my track record? Really? Come on. If anything, I am the smoke monster from the South and you are the lady demon from New Zealand.
    “You know the most annoying thing about you in this thread? Your inane commentary for nearly 40 comments in which practically everyone else is weird and strange and nit-picky because they have a differing opinion from you, and the fact that you think anybody wants to read your contradictions of practically everybody, or gives a shit what you think to that degree. there’s participation and then there’s SATURATION.”
    No, I love the film, and discussed it with people. I have done it more times on this blog than anyone else not named David Poland. You do not like me, you take every thing I post the wrong way because you twist it in your head, and those you insult my comments. Again, I asked them questions as to why they saw it differently, and some answered. Some of them also had nitpicky comments and I stated as much but Leah likes to control everything because NO ONE TELLS LEAH WHAT TO DO!
    “You go on about how people come here for you and you bring up the hit count on the blog; I don’t know if that’s true but if it is, did you ever stop to think the hit count goes up because every second comment is you?”
    Uh no. I am not Jeff. If you paid attention to the post count, I am only fourth all-time. Jeffy Mac is number one and he’s far and away number one. If you think I post as much as he has then you are not really paying attention to this blog and just hating me because you think I am some sort of demon seed.

  177. leahnz says:

    christ io you are freaking me out
    how do i put this: is there some law that everybody has to approve of you? i don’t buy this weird mach II version of you, you’re trying way too hard, overcompensating or something. it’s creepy, like the stepford io, in complete denial, like you’ve retconned yourself (but the same ol’ nasty ranter underneath, so long as nobody ‘wrongs’ you. not sure you realise one can still provoke and condescend under the guise of humour; “but i’m just joking around!’ doesn’t negate assholery in any way – contempt or wrath in the guise of humour, as old as the hills. so the whole new innocent ‘but shucks ma’am i was just kidding around’ shtick does not fly, or preclude provocative intent. i’m not sure you understand this, but you should)
    that’s my opinion and i can only speak for myself. you are clearly not fond of me, so is there is some reason i must be fond of you? sometimes people just don’t get on, c’est la vie. if you’re going to blog, i guess you have to accept that not everyone is going to get on with you and people will tell you when they think you’re being a pain in the ass. the truth is, i don’t even particularly mind you in small doses, and we are capable of having a conversation, we’ve done it a fair bit on this blog. i do think you’re a bit of a psycho, and nothing you say is going to dissuade me of that notion because i’ve come too far and seen too much — but having said that i don’t see why we can’t co-exist, most of the time we do anyway, what you say just washes over me in a haze until something exceptionally annoying sparks me into action. if you are going to blog so prolifically then you have to accept some people will be critical of the things you say at times, don’t you? it might be two people, it might be two million, you don’t know. just don’t bring me up into your shit and we don’t have a problem, really. i don’t see why you even care what i think anyway, if you’re really on a charm offensive then just shut the hell up a little
    this says it all:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKo_PxENLQE&feature=related

  178. IOv2 says:

    Leah, I always get the last word. It’s a thing. Nevertheless, I have not retconned myself as much as I have explained to you how I feel. I also have nothing against you or anyone else here. Why? I let it go. If you let it go, everything is a fine, and you can wish people to have a nice day.
    You also have to realize that I have always had a joking demeanor here and some folks like yourself never ever got that, and you still think joking around online is a bad thing, and I disagree. You seem to think it’s covering up for something else but no, I am just a person who tries to laugh as much as possible as George Carlin taught me. Not every joke is a thinly veiled insult, Leah. Sometimes a joke, is just a joke.

  179. Krazy Eyes says:

    Yikes . . . this movie could use another discussion thread . . . this time maybe with IO barred from posting.
    So little actual talking about the movie and so much talking about others talking about discussing the movie. Reading through all this makes me with I had a little top to spin too.
    I finally got around to seeing the movie last night and thought it was very good. Definitely something I would need to see again before making a big judgement on. One question:
    Why does Dom’s character rely on Mal’s top as his totem device? Shouldn’t he have his own totem? Plus, if he knew the rules of Mal’s top, doesn’t that negate it’s entire purpose?

  180. IOv2 says:

    Why would I be barred from posting? You sir, are a hater pants. HATER PANTS! Oh yeah, he has his own totem, it appears to be his wedding ring, and the whole film seems to be a dream inside of a dream inside of a dream inside of a dream, and that sort of explains the reasons why he uses Mal’s totem because it’s more about fixing himself and that top is there to help him do it.

  181. christian says:

    “Again, Christian posted a joke from a Kevin Smithy film as if I were serious and you don’t think there is a misunderstanding going on here?”
    David banned you after that post. Check ya later!

  182. IOv2 says:

    Uh no he didn’t. I got a suspension for like three days. Seriously, why you have a problem is beyond me.

  183. Foamy Squirrel says:

    Cobb’s totem does appear to be the top (it’s possible he used his wedding ring earlier, but he adopts the top after Mal left). Cobb knowing about Mal’s top is what caused the “rule” not to tell someone else – if someone else knows the “rules” then you run the danger that someone can replicate them in the dream (similarly, the old architect couldn’t replicate Watanabe’s carpet accurately so it acted as his totem in that case).
    Because Cobb knew how Mal’s top worked he was able to influence it and plant the Inception that reality wasn’t real. He’s now the only person who knows the rules (at least, that’s alive) and as IO said because it has special significance he adopts it as his own.

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It shows how out of it I was in trying to be in it, acknowledging that I was out of it to myself, and then thinking, “Okay, how do I stop being out of it? Well, I get some legitimate illogical narrative ideas” — some novel, you know?

So I decided on three writers that I might be able to option their material and get some producer, or myself as producer, and then get some writer to do a screenplay on it, and maybe make a movie.

And so the three projects were “Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep,” “Naked Lunch” and a collection of Bukowski. Which, in 1975, forget it — I mean, that was nuts. Hollywood would not touch any of that, but I was looking for something commercial, and I thought that all of these things were coming.

There would be no Blade Runner if there was no Ray Bradbury. I couldn’t find Philip K. Dick. His agent didn’t even know where he was. And so I gave up.

I was walking down the street and I ran into Bradbury — he directed a play that I was going to do as an actor, so we know each other, but he yelled “hi” — and I’d forgot who he was.

So at my girlfriend Barbara Hershey’s urging — I was with her at that moment — she said, “Talk to him! That guy really wants to talk to you,” and I said “No, fuck him,” and keep walking.

But then I did, and then I realized who it was, and I thought, “Wait, he’s in that realm, maybe he knows Philip K. Dick.” I said, “You know a guy named—” “Yeah, sure — you want his phone number?”

My friend paid my rent for a year while I wrote, because it turned out we couldn’t get a writer. My friends kept on me about, well, if you can’t get a writer, then you write.”
~ Hampton Fancher

“That was the most disappointing thing to me in how this thing was played. Is that I’m on the phone with you now, after all that’s been said, and the fundamental distinction between what James is dealing with in these other cases is not actually brought to the fore. The fundamental difference is that James Franco didn’t seek to use his position to have sex with anyone. There’s not a case of that. He wasn’t using his position or status to try to solicit a sexual favor from anyone. If he had — if that were what the accusation involved — the show would not have gone on. We would have folded up shop and we would have not completed the show. Because then it would have been the same as Harvey Weinstein, or Les Moonves, or any of these cases that are fundamental to this new paradigm. Did you not notice that? Why did you not notice that? Is that not something notable to say, journalistically? Because nobody could find the voice to say it. I’m not just being rhetorical. Why is it that you and the other critics, none of you could find the voice to say, “You know, it’s not this, it’s that”? Because — let me go on and speak further to this. If you go back to the L.A. Times piece, that’s what it lacked. That’s what they were not able to deliver. The one example in the five that involved an issue of a sexual act was between James and a woman he was dating, who he was not working with. There was no professional dynamic in any capacity.

~ David Simon