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David Poland

By David Poland

Weekend Estimates by Klady


Apologies, but my flight is about to take off and Team MCN is scattered to the winds this morning. So this is all there is until later today.

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121 Responses to “Weekend Estimates by Klady”

  1. movieman says:

    Not even Harvey’s relentless/exhausting PR campaign can turn “Bully” into a bonafide hit.
    I wonder if Sony Classics will ever go “Raid” wide-ish with “Darling Companion.”
    It seems like a comfortable multiplex fit: the type of movie that would go over well with the senior crowd at weekday matinees.

  2. Edward Wilson says:

    Thanks for posting the version for people with good eyesight and the version for my grandma too!

  3. chris says:

    Once I saw “Think Like a Man,” it was clear it was going to be huge, but is that screen count right? That’s even more remarkable.

  4. Gus says:

    Movieman, if I’m not mistaken, Raid did go wide-ish last week (more than 800 screens). Averages were definitely not great.

  5. azmoviegoer says:

    What, no pun for the title of the weekend BO estimates? I would of gone with “Think like a Klady” which works nicely with “Think like a Man” don’t you think?

  6. arisp says:

    I literally had no idea what Think Like a Man was before I saw the estimates. Never ever heard of it, not one commercial, not one billboard (in NYC).

  7. Rob says:

    Really? I’ve seen (or fast-forwarded through) plenty of ads in prime time.

  8. movieman says:

    I’m aware of the dismal “wide-ish” showing for “The Raid,” Gus. (I wouldn’t have been able to see it last weekend otherwise, lol.)
    But most of Sony Classics’ attempts to expand theatre counts of “art” films (e.g., “Carnage”) inevitably flop.
    I was merely opining that “Darling Companion” seemed more multiplex-friendly than the SC norm. And wondering if there were any expansion plans in its future.

  9. KrazyEyes says:

    Finally caught The Raid this weekend and I was totally underwhelmed by it. I thought it started well and enjoyed the first few action set-pieces but as the bullets ran out, it devolved into boring, overlong, and repetive hand-to-hand fights. By the end I was very ready for it to be over. Plus, I thought the lead lacked even the smallest shred of charisma.

    The geek press strikes again.

  10. movieman says:

    I second that, Krazy.
    On both counts.

  11. Big G says:

    Wonder how many people knew Chris Brown is in this thing before buying a ticket. And I wonder what the audience reactions are when he appears onscreen.

  12. Tom says:

    At my theater, the first reaction to Chris Brown was “eww look at his nipples” and then big laughs every time he pops up afterward.

  13. anghus says:

    Chris Brown is no longer a pariah. At this point he’s been accepted back into the mainstream. You know that Today show summer concert series, the most mainstream music event on broadcast television? He’s one of the acts they booked.

    It’s sad. Apparently beating a woman up isn’t career suicide.

  14. Yancy Skancy says:

    azmoviegoer: I would have preferred “Thinklady Man.” At least we were spared “The Klady One” and “Chimpkladee.”

  15. chris says:

    It probably helps that Brown plays a douche. (And no way is there a wide audience for “Darling Companion.” If it were a good movie, maybe it would have some legs. But it isn’t and it won’t.)

  16. Joe Straatmann says:

    Well, it’s not just he beat up a woman. He beat her up and left thinking he’d killed her, and he’s free and still in her life. Not to mention when he came back during the Grammies, the amount of women who said they’d be okay with Chris Brown beating them is just stunning (I know in the grand scheme, it’s a small amount of stupid people, but still…). Seriously, what the hell?!

  17. christian says:

    Well, there are an awful lot of liberals in Hollywood who think Mike Tyson is, like, the coolest, funniest rapist eva!

    America LOVES bullies.

  18. Joshua/CaptainZahn says:

    Speaking of douchebag woman beaters, what the fuck is wrong with this asshole?

  19. bulldog68 says:

    It’s just a bit weird to see that Think like a Man just opended bigger than Wrath of the Titans and John Carter.

  20. cadavra says:

    Zahn: I met them at a party a few weeks ago. She’s a former Playmate, and admitted to me that he treats her like crap but she “loves him anyway.” I replied that she probably wouldn’t look twice at a nice guy like me…and she didn’t deny it. Yes, America does love bullies.

  21. hcat says:

    With Think Like a Man and Act of Valor, thats two 12 million dollar films that will domestically pass the monumentally more expensive Carter. Plus given the size of the writedown Disney took it looks like the $250 million budget estimate they have been floating might be a tad low.

  22. JS Partisan says:

    HC, it’s quite a bath but really, they let a guy who made that much or more on DVDs from Finding Nemo, make the John Carter movie he always wanted to make. In no way is this a sound fiscal strategy for any company but really, the BCS cost more than John Carter, and the BCS is shit! Apples and oranges? Sure. Does not change the fact that there’s a half way decent John Carter movie in the world, finally, after all of these years. Which is a good thing. Compared to the BCS, which remains shit.

  23. Yancy Skancy says:

    It’s 5:33 a.m. here now, and my brain will not let me expend even one second of its fading power in trying to figure out/remember what “the BCS” refers to.

  24. hcat says:

    Given the lackluster reviews, I’m not sure that this was the John Carter movie he wanted to make. And after all the years in perpetual development, is it really better to have an adequate version than none at all?

  25. Paul D/Stella says:

    If it’s weird that Think Like a Man had a better opening than John Carter and Wraith of the Titans, it’s only because the latter two are disappointments right? No one is actually surprised that Think Like a Man opened well?

  26. What is BCS, JS? Bowl Championship Series? Behavioral & Cognitive Sciences? British Computer Society? Basic Chemical Solutions? Bradshaw Consulting Services? Beaver Creek School? Budget Casting Supply? Business Career Services? Bryan College Station? Bellingham Cold Storage? Blanco Cosmology Survey?

    I really have no idea. There’s no title in Klady’s chart with those initials nor does anyone reference anything that fits in their replies. Not trying to be a dick (excessive verbiage to the contrary), I just don’t have a clue what you’re saying.

  27. bulldog68 says:

    It has been preached back and forth and from the hilltops that the first weekend is about the marketing, and not the movie itself, and I’m sure the awareness for Titans and Carter was higher than Think Like a Man. Even lackluster blockbusters open higher and then plummet to earth, most times limping toward $100m.

    Maybe I don’t watch the channels that carried the ‘Think’ trailers, but I did not see one trailer, not on TV, not in the theater, for this movie. It completely missed my radar, and I remember stuff like Barbershop, and even last years Jumping the Broom, came in with a seemingly higher awareness.

    The fact that it opened above Titans and Carter is a statement both to those under performers whose marketing did not fool anyone and flies in the face of ‘the first weekend is all about the marketing’. (Which I still believe but it’s actually nice to get something that goes against the grain once in a while.) And secondly, it proves that when people really want to see a movie, they will go out and find it. Who would have thought that with the waning box office of these ensemble romance movies ending with the less than stellar box office of New Years Eve last year, that in the middle of April, a movie with mostly black stars, none of them huge box office, would come and clean up. Kudos.

  28. Paul D/Stella says:

    I saw lots of stuff about Think Like a Man before its release, and I don’t watch much TV. What I do watch I record and I FF commercials. But I saw print and online stories. Saw a trailer before something I saw a few weeks back. I was aware of its release.

    Either way though, the target audience was probably extremely aware of its release. I feel like every time a film primarily targeting black viewers is a hit, people are surprised and act like the success came out of nowhere. How many need to be a hit before we’re not surprised? Black people have event movies too.

  29. JS Partisan says:

    Good lord movie nerds, how do you not know what the BCS is? It’s the BOWL CHAMPIONSHIP SERIES, it’s BULLSHIT, and ESPN paid 500 MILLION DOLLARS to air it for FOUR YEARS! Seriously, it’s better to have art in the world, even if it’s flawed art to some people (HC, critics may have not appreciated Carter but I know people who adore it. Stanton also loved the movie he made because he wouldn’t shut up about it), in comparison to something like the BCS. Which is pure and simple bullshit, another way for the big schools to fuck over the little schools, and for the big schools to get richer by not giving the people what they want in a PLAYOFF!

    Disney spending money on this or any movie, always better than the shit they let ESPN pay hundreds of millions to broadcast.

  30. Krillian says:

    We may hate the BCS but they make their money. John Carter didn’t.

    And don’t get me started on the IMF.

    (no one mentioned the IMF…)

    The IMF is massively corrupt and ruins lives while John Carter brought pleasure to moviegoers who like spectacle!

  31. JS Partisan says:

    Screw you, Krillian! THE IMPOSSIBLE MISSION FORCE IS TREMENDOUS AND DO GREAT SERVICE TO THEIR NATION! They also created reflective shoelaces and who doesn’t love reflective shoelaces?

    That aside, seriously, art is always better than the BCS Krillian. The BCS might make ESPN money but it’s also completely fucking up the college landscape. Seriously, Memphis now plays in the BIG FUCKING EAST. THE BIG EAST and they had to accept that bid in order to guarantee they made the Tourney in basketball every year because the university needs the money. When you have schools doing this stuff all over the country, it’s just stupid, because it should not be this way. Unfortunately it is and it’s because THE BCS IS BULLSHIT!

  32. bulldog68 says:

    I thought IMF was the International Monetary Fund. My bad.

  33. jesse says:

    Yeah, bulldog, I feel like maybe you just kinda missed this one, because I saw the Think Like a Man trailer a solid four or five times this spring; posters everywhere on the subway; and TV ads in a blur as I fast-forwarded my DVR. $33 million is still bigger than I was expecting just because of screen-count, but the word was definitely getting out, at least in NYC.

    You know what’s kind of weird? With all this talk about a new Dark Knight Rises trailer in front of The Avengers, I realized I saw the earlier trailer all of about twice. Sherlock Holmes 2 and I think Girl with the Dragon Tattoo… and I haven’t seen it in front of a damn thing since then, and I go to the movies pretty much every weekend, sometimes several times if I haven’t gotten screenings.

  34. cadavra says:

    Hey, I’m miffed no one’s mentioned LSoC yet!

  35. Yancy Skancy says:

    Just when I had convinced myself that the BCS was The Bill Cosby Show. Hikky Burr.

  36. hcat says:

    Off topic but no recent BYOB so…

    Just watched the trailer for Ruby Sparks over at IMDB (slow work day), and while I enjoyed Little Miss Sunshine more than most, Sparks looks terrible. I can see the reasoning between the two leads looking similair but I found it rather unnerving. Hope this is just a marketing thing and the film ends up being something completely different (and odder) than the trailer depicts.

  37. Paul D/Stella says:

    On the other hand, the biggest laughs I’ve had in recent memory were supplied by the GI Joe: Retaliation trailer. Mechanical killer bees. Bruce Willis’s incomprehensible first line. Nearly everything The Rock says. Holy shit it looks hysterical.

  38. hcat says:

    I get the feeling from the trailer that Willis probably has about 12 minutes of screen time in Joe.

    I don’t get the reasoning behind the Joe sequel. The first one did 300 million WW on a 175 budget. Unless it made gobs on home video or Hasbro kicked in most the cash for the sequel how much does Paramount expect to make off this?

  39. Paul D/Stella says:

    12 minutes at most. And I know some people liked it, but the first one seems to have come and gone pretty quietly, not really making much of an impression. I struggle to remember much about its release (time of year, actual year, trailers, TV spots, etc). As you mention hcat it sure doesn’t seem like the world was demanding a sequel.

  40. bulldog68 says:

    I think the studio obviously believes that this franchise has tremendous upside. For what it’s worth, the first installment was not loathed by the public and this trailer seems to ramp up the action quite a bit. And if they can pull a Fast Five with The Rock, and the forever loved Bruce Willis, I think that’s a worthwhile gamble, plus, the international numbers could go north of $250m.

  41. Paul D/Stella says:

    I didn’t think the first one was loathed, but it didn’t seem universally adored either. Maybe I’m wrong. And adding The Rock to a sequel does seem to pay off.

  42. palmtree says:

    The trailer, new characters, and change of personnel makes the new GI Joe feel like a reboot. The first one wasn’t huge, but this one very well could be.

  43. MarkVH says:

    Bummer, I kind of liked having Lex around again. Oh well, it was not to be, I guess.

  44. anghus says:

    Its like a lex post without any effort.

  45. Krillian says:

    Like Scott M pointed out earlier, seems pretty dumb in hindsight to kill of Channing Tatum at the beginning of the movie, but then, how could Paramount knoe that The Voew and 21 Jump Street would have fared so well?

  46. Jesse –

    I have been to the movies any number of times in 2012 and I have never seen The Dark Knight Rises trailer. Granted I saw Sherlock Holmes 2 at a press screening and M:I4 at a ‘real IMAX’ (so I got the IMAX skyjacking prologue), but it’s something that has actually crossed my mind of late too. Same thing four years ago, I never once saw that classic Dark Knight teaser in an actual theater (again, I saw I Am Legend in IMAX so I got the bank robbery prologue). Heck, I think the only time I saw the second Dark Knight trailer was in front of Iron Man on opening day.

    I can’t think of any other examples offhand, but it does seem that even during periods when I see quite a few movies in regular theaters and not press screenings (which is most of the year save the year-end Oscar sprint and the heart of the summer season), yet there are certain trailers that play over and over again (21 Jump Street, Shutter Island, etc) and some seemingly ‘big’ trailers that never actually get seen on a theater screen. If Disney screws me on Avengers screenings (not that they ‘owe me anything’, but their evasiveness is frustrating), at least I’ll get to see the second Dark Knight Rises trailer in the theaters at least once…

    As for GI JOE 2, I’m pleased that it doesn’t feel all that different from The Rise of Cobra. Since I’m among the few that kinda liked the first film (loved it until the stupid Barronness twist) with its cotton-candy colors, genuinely weird characters, and ‘if I had my old action figures and $175 million to spend’ action sequences, I’m glad they are keeping the pulpy over-the-top qualities. No one really wants to see a ‘dark/gritty/realistic’ GI Joe film. As for Tatum, yeah, bad foresight on their part, but I wouldn’t be surprised to either have a post-credit cookie or a hastily added climactic action beat involving Tatum’s miraculous survival.

  47. hcat says:

    Does anyone think someone at New Line is working on pitching The Rock Sex in the City 3 to try to get that franchise back up and running?

  48. JS Partisan says:

    It’s probably unrealitic optimism, but I can’t see them killing off Duke. Something has to happen to bring Tatum back at the end of the film unless Paramount are super stupid. Which is possible but it’s Conrad Hauser. YOU DON’T KILL OFF CONRAD HAUSER unless you do, and then it’s face palm time.

  49. movieman says:

    Loved Aardman’s “Pirates!”
    It’s like an animated version of a classic Dick Lester or Blake Edwards slapstick comedy..with a soupcon of Monty Python absurdism.
    Plus, I found it refreshing that I couldn’t ID most of the vocal talent. Weirdly, I had an easier time recognizing Jeremy Piven than Hugh Grant (and Grant voice-acts the lead role).
    I do think, however, that the Charles Darwin, Emily Bronte, Elephant Man and Queen Victoria jokes will probably go over the heads of most tykes.

  50. jesse says:

    Scott, I totally agree — some trailers I just see ad infinitum and others, I see once or only on the Internet. I wondered if it had to do with the randomness introduced by what movies I see as press (usually about one a week), and maybe it does, but still: so many trailers out there, yet I’ve still seen Madagascar 3 soooo many times.

    Oddly, I saw the Dark Knight trailers were one of those — around this time in 2008 I had seen Dark Knight trailers probably five or six times (and never really got tired of it). But yeah, DKR… almost nothing. The movies where I think I actually saw it, Sherlock and Dragon Tattoo, were movies where I saw various trailers probably eight times each in the run-up to release.

    This year, I’ve seen Battleship a ton; Men in Black III a fair amount, too. And I’ve seen Dark Shadows a lot for something that’s only existed for a few weeks. Avengers, some but not saturated. And of the June stuff, only Prometheus a real ton of times.

    I think the lesser amount of Tatum in GI Joe 2 is more to do with Tatum’s interest in participating than the studio’s interest in having him. If Sony was trying to edge him out, they could’ve done so completely.

  51. cadavra says:

    Been gone all day. What happened? Did Lex go and get himself banned again? Why am I never around when this happens?

  52. christian says:

    Go to HE for the Rest Of The Story.

  53. storymark says:

    “YOU DON’T KILL OFF CONRAD HAUSER unless you do, and then it’s face palm time.”

    Well, they did kill him in the 80’s animated movie – initially – untill kids freaked over killing Optimus in Transformers, and they re-dubbed a line so that getting speared through the heart just put him in a coma.

    So, there is at least a chance they could off him again. And my nerd-info quota for the day is filled.

  54. hcat says:

    Perhaps this is the beginning of a strategy and the Rock gets knocked off in the first ten minutes of the third one. Might be fun to have a franchise where the previous stars always get killed in the pre-credit sequence of the next installment.

  55. storymark says:

    That could be fun.

  56. Krillian says:

    Let’s not forget what the Mission Impossible franchise did to Mr. Phelps.

  57. hcat says:

    Does the new Joe movie mean that there might be an action figure coming out bearing Bruce Willis’ likeness? Even though I’m skipping the movie I might have to pick up one of those.

  58. JS Partisan says:

    Why would you skip the movie? Seriously, shame on you HC XD! Also, he is getting an action figure and it sort of looks like him.

  59. hcat says:

    There’s a long wish list of movies to see before Joe’s name comes up. Prometheus, Moonrise, Dark Knight, the new Bourne depending on reviews. Avengers and Spiderman if they turn into absolute must sees. Brave might be on the list for the daughter, Campaign might be on the list to see with the wife. If I’m able to pull all those theater visits it will be more than the last three years combined.

  60. Foamy Squirrel says:

    Hi from Sydney (got here last week).

    Avengers (Non-Spoilers)

    – You Should Buy A Copy To Keep
    You Should See At Cinema *AVENGERS*
    – You Should Wait For Rental
    – You Should Watch on TV if it Happens To Be On
    – You Should Change The Channel if it Happens To Be On

    THE BAD:
    I’ll get this out of the way first – the script is all over the place. Hawkeye and Scarlet Widow have the B-Story for the film, and they could have their lines removed and it wouldn’t make one iota of difference to the plot. That’s not always a bad thing, but when the next-least-powerful team member is Captain America it devolves into “Why are you here again?”. Cobie Smulders similarly starts off seemingly an integral cast member, and soon her entire role consists of asking Sam Jackson “What do we do?” so he can deliver his pithy lines. Hawkeye and Widow aren’t flat characters, and some people may dig them, but for me they seemed only to be there because the actors were “names”.

    The biggest issue though is the entire 2nd Act – it makes no sense whatsoever and only serves to fill in an hour until the alien invasion hits. To summarize:

    Loki – Muahahahahaa! I have a plan!

    Heroes – Holy shit, it’s Loki! Let’s get him!

    Loki – Muahhahaha! All according to my plan!

    Heroes – Look out! He has a plan!

    Loki – Muahahaha! All according to my plan!

    Hero 1 – Hey, we’re all big personalities right? What would happen if our personalities conflict?

    Hero 2 – “Conflicting personalities”? That sounds like fighting words!

    Loki – Muahahahaha! All according to my plan!

    Hero 3 – Hang on, how did you know we’d be here? It’s not like SHIELD had even started to recruit us (or in the case of one hero known we were in the same dimension…)

    Loki – Shut up! It’s all according to my plan!

    Heroes – Oh that’s right, he has a plan. We’d better keep our eye out for it.

    Loki – Muahahaha! All according to my… oh wait, it’s been an hour already? Okay, bye guys – I have to go meet up with my invading army!

    Heroes – What a dastardly plan! After a moment’s poignant silence about the consequences of our dickishness, let’s not mention any of this ever again cos we’ve got 45mins of fight scenes to get on with.

    Just like Hawkeye and Widow, Act 2 could be removed wholesale without making any difference. The actual “plot” happens entirely offscreen while the heroes take turns juggling the Conflict Ball for an hour.

    The Good:
    While it doesn’t make sense, you may not mind as it is VERY enjoyable… if you like Whedonspeak. Witty banter abounds, although some of the characterization is heavy handed (the fact that it’s very blatant is even lampshaded a couple of times). Hulk has the best bits of all the characters, while Mark Ruffalo and Chris Evans deliver the standout performances of the ensemble cast.

    The final 3rd Act invasion is fantastic, easily on par with the destruction of Chicago from Transformers 3, although there are a few occasions that the 3D marrs the action. Typically 3D objects travel from screen towards the audience using cues for positioning, but for some reason a few objects are chosen to travel from the audience to the screen – since there are no visual clues for the starting point it takes a couple of seconds to resolve the 3D and by then I was taken out of the moment.

    I suspect there were 2 cinematographers for the final act, as there are some really outstanding shots that jump out at you amongst the workmanlike set pieces. It really is terrific and very imaginative.

    The post-credits reveal is exactly who it was rumoured to be. The actions of the Alien Warmaster are completely out of proportion (you lost one battle, for a warrior race you’re remarkably spineless) and this out-of-character exchange is purely to set up a reference that only people well-versed in the Mystery Reveal’s background would understand.

    This film definitely deserves to be seen in theatres – it doesn’t make sense, but it hits the “Tone” squarely on the head and is extremely enjoyable. Just skip the 3D.

  61. Martin S says:

    The biggest issue though is the entire 2nd Act – it makes no sense whatsoever and only serves to fill in an hour until the alien invasion hits.

    That seems to be the consensus no one is acknowledging.


    I suspect there were 2 cinematographers for the final act

    Yep. Last minute shooting in either NYC or LA. I think it was NYC, and TDKR was LA. Wasn’t part of the original Avengers sched. Added for just what you said; beef up third act to override banality that is the first two.

  62. Krillian says:

    Well, Dave’s not done his yet so here’s my box-office predictions. I should be an MCN columnist. Dave, what can we do to make this happen?

  63. hcat says:

    Krillian, think you are underestimanting Battleship and Bourne and WILDLY overestimating What to Expect. I would be amazed if Expect gets over 45 and thats if it catches on. $110 million would make it third biggest hit in Lionsgate’s history, and I really don’t see anything in that trailer that would make it look like that strong a hit.

    I do see older audiences coming out for Hope Springs, see it doing about 60 or so (whatever Eat, Pray, Love did). And think Friend at the end of the world will end up around 15. Not terrible for Focus, but doesn’t look like anything extrordinary. Ted is a wild card with anything between 40 and 140, could be the lowbrow word of mouth comedy of the summer.

  64. Krillian says:

    I always underestimate the chick flicks, but even the lambasted Sex & the City 2 made $100 million. I guess Brave and Rock of Ages and Snow White are close enough?

    And I agree Hope Springs looks like it’s at the Eat Pray Love level of gross potential.

    Ted could be Horrible Bosses, or it could be The Change-Up.

  65. For what it’s worth, I strongly disagree with Foamy Squirrel on at least one point. The second act was by-far the portion I most enjoyed. Yes, there wasn’t much forward-momentum, but it was chock full of character interaction and all of it was pretty solid (smart, funny, rooted in character continuity, etc), climaxed by arguably the best action sequence in the film. Ruffalo is so good here that not only would I also pay to see a stand-alone Hulk film with Ruffalo, I’d pay to see one where he never actually turns into the Hulk. But yes, Hawkeye especially is a waste of space.

    The third-act fireworks are fine, but they are pretty much just third-act fireworks with just enough crowd-pleasing action beats to compensate for the Transformers 3 déjà vu. I kept getting distracted in the finale by nagging plot questions, the lack of any emotionally-engaging beats (or a musical score to rouse you accordingly), and the fact that it’s pretty much empty spectacle. The film works for 80% of its running time as superb entertainment (the opening ten and final five minutes are frankly terrible), I just wish it worked as a truly great film.

    For those who care –

  66. JS Partisan says:

    Seriously, Scott summing things up better than a dude who still reads comics is why this blog is interesting.

    Also, Whedon dialogue is fantabulous, and the 2nd act is what these team ups are all about… OVERCOMING ONE’S PROBLEMS FOR THE GREATER GOOD OF THE TEAM! That’s the point. If that point is lost on you, then it’s lost on you.

  67. Foamy Squirrel says:

    “For what it’s worth, I strongly disagree with Foamy Squirrel on at least one point. ”

    I can totally get Your Mileage May Vary. Act 2 is a mess, but has lots of character fun. Act 3 is a whole lot of fighting and not much else. Depends which bugs you more – personally, I dug the set pieces because the lack of any direction or continuity in Act 2 just annoyed me.

    “(smart, funny, rooted in character continuity, etc)”

    Off the top of my head:

    Bifrost destroyed? No problem – handwaved in half a sentence by Odin “using more energy”.

    Banner’s description of his attempts to deal with “The Other Guy” – doesn’t match at all with what we’ve seen of The Other Guy’s reaction speed. Both in terms of agility and transformation.

    Thor has a joke line about he worries about Asgardians because they squabble like *Asgardian animal that no-one else is familiar with so they all stare at Thor*. Five minutes later he’s giggling because apparently mortals have petty squabbles. Do Asgardians have goldfish memories too?

    And probably the worst example, Cap informing Stark (and, by extension, the audience) of Stark’s “flaws”. Not only does Cap not know Stark well enough to make those kind of judgements, but the “flaws” are contradicted by the previous Iron Man movies.

    This may also be why the final 5mins are terrible for Scott, as these “flaws” are a (fairly hamfisted) attempt to add emotional weight to the climax.


    They don’t HAVE problems, that’s my issue with Act 2. It informs the audience that they have problems in the middle of the act, and then magically resolves them at the end. For a good 20mins after they encounter Loki at the start they’re all functioning fine as a team – that’s why I specifically made reference to them “juggling the Conflict Ball”, because the conflict is entirely artificial.

  68. Jeffrey Boam's Doctor says:

    The worst film I’ve seen in 2012. This is not an exaggeration. There’s an entire hour in this film that could be edited and it wouldn’t alter the outcome of the film. There’s also gaping inconsistencies that arrested comic book fans overlook because their favorite characters are finally standing in a room talking to each other. There’s not one second of anything original onscreen. There’s not one emotional beat that works. There’s not one fraction of fun apart from Hulk swinging Loki which only highlights how weak the rest of the film is. There’s not one second of anything innovative or inspired. There’s no sense this is even happening on our earth. It all feels so small and cheap. Not one moment that’s close to being suspenseful either. It’s as shallow and empty-headed as Transformers 2 but without the hilarious fetishistic and goofy aspects of that mess. Fantastic Four is a much better movie.

  69. Glamourboy says:

    yikes..Fantastic Four is a better movie? I thought Fantastic Four was unwatchable….

  70. Foamy Squirrel says:

    Eh… now the good Doctor is just trolling.

  71. JS Partisan says:

    Yeah that lady is just being her usually contrarian and annoying self. Seriously, she’s being shouted down from all sides on this one and she has decided to show how much disdain she has for comic book films. Whoopidy doo, who gives a shit.

  72. Jeffrey Boam's Doctor says:

    Not trolling. I sincerely think it’s a poorly made film. I realize undiscerning comic book audiences will lap up it’s safe mediocrity and I’m fine with that. These people are also content to eat junk food on a daily basis as well. My diet is simply on a higher shelf both cinematically and nutritionally speaking.

    Foamy you ultimately state ‘it doesn’t make sense’. So I ask this, would you give any other type of film such an easy pass for such a failure as you do for a comic book film?

  73. Foamy Squirrel says:

    Sure – for me, the “enjoyability” factor is the biggest motivator for me seeing content. Raiders of the Lost Ark, for instance – how on earth did Indy think he was going to get the Ark out of a Nazi dig site? If it wasn’t for Indy’s actions, the Nazis could well have gone home empty-handed. But who cares, it’s fun!

    I’ve certainly hated enough other “fun comic book films” (Ghost Rider and co. – I’m looking at you), but I enjoyed the Avengers enough that I’m willing to overlook the faults in structure.

    Edit: For the record, I’m not a huge fan of the Raimi Spider-men and I thought Captain America was the best of the Hulk/IM/Cap/Thor lead-ins – while I thought IM/Thor had better “peaks” of excitement, I felt Cap had a much steadier handling of the emotional beats and so was more enjoyable as a whole.

  74. Foamy Squirrel says:


    To expand on the post-credit note I made earlier, the character in question is an amoral powerhouse who (in the comics) has successfully taken over the universe several times. His “defeat” stems from the motivation for such feats – his only goal is to win the affection of the (female) anthropomorphic personification of Death.

    Typically he tries to do so by causing carnage on a galactic scale but he’s amoral in that he’d adopt 1000 fluffy bunnies if he thought Death would approve, and he has no problems with assisting the Heroes to deal with anything that may threaten his beloved Death. During his most notorious victory, he gave up literal omnipotent power because he wouldn’t be Death’s equal; he’d be her superior.

    Hence the rather awkward sequence specifically so the Alien Warmaster could utter the phrase “attacking Earth would be like courting Death”.

    *** END SPOILERS ***

  75. See now I have to agree with Foamy. I absolutely agree (and whined about it in my review) that the alleged second-act conflicts are basically forced. They DO get along swimmingly for most of the middle portion, it’s only when certain stuff happens and/or outside forces interfere that they momentarily stumble. And the whole notion that if not for Fury’s ‘brilliant’ notion to assemble these heroes, that Earth would be doomed is silly. It’s not like if aliens attacked that Iron Man, Captain America, SHIELD, THOR, etc wouldn’t individually come to the world’s aid in defense of the populace. This stuff bothered me more in the third act because I had more time to think about it while watching another random flying CGI alien get blown up.

  76. JS Partisan says:

    Lady, you believing that you have better taste than anyone is pretty god damn funny. You also slamming a film that people who don’t have to hide behind a nick like your’s, are lining up to praise, is reason enough to refer to you as a troll.

    ETA: Seriously Scott, referring to Avengers as a B-movie is such snobby bullshit. Why people like you have to give fucking qualifiers to these film, when you bend over for every arty piece of shit that comes out, remains the critical undoing of this gen of critics.

    Nevertheless, you and Foamy are ignoring that this IS HOW TEAM UPS work in comics. Seriously, this is a part of the genre, and getting pissy about it or frustrated about it, ignores how important it is. You have to get over the small stuff to work on the big stuff. That’s comic book team work 101.

  77. Jeffrey Boam's Doctor says:

    It wasn’t the glaring faults in the film or the fact that it made no sense, it was ultimately the lack of fun and the turgid middle that crippled it for me. We all can forgive minor lapses in films but when you step back from the FX, nothing made any damn sense in The Avengers. The entire setup for the film is deeply flawed. That’s a long way from Indy riding on a sub. Though I’m sure JSP will defend it’s glaring faults as intentional winks to him and his ilk.

  78. In the realm of comic book cinema, Captain America is an ‘A’ movie. The Avengers is a ‘B’ movie. Iron Man 2 is a ‘C’ movie. “People like you”? I trashed Drive and Midnight In Paris, spent most of 2011 defending Sucker Punch and picked Kung Fu Panda 2 as my favorite film of 2011…

  79. Foamy Squirrel says:

    Oooh… Sucker Punch. Now there’s a topic probably best avoided.

    (So, of course, I single it out…)

  80. Jeffrey Boam's Doctor says:

    Everyone has better taste than you JSP. You wear your horrid taste like its some badge of courage which I guess in some cultures it is.

    Hey Captain Retardo regarding my hiding behind a nickname. Who has been banned from here for trolling? Oh thats right you. And what nickname do you hide behind today? You idiot. LOL

    Like shooting dead fish in a barrel

  81. JS Partisan says:

    Lady, seeing as you are bitching and moaning about things that anyone with common sense can figure out. I am sure that what confused you, will work fine with me and millions of other people. Seriously, the entire set-up for this film has existed for 7 years but nice of you to dismiss one of the best comics in the entire Ultimates series.

    Scott, seriously, you can’t have a 250m dollar B movie. It makes no sense. Sure it’s your ranking and what not, but it comes across snobby. It is cool that you folks love Captain America. It’s my least favourite Marvel film, but that does not mean it sucks at all.

    ETA: You are so fucking stupid, Lady. Seriously, I have better taste than you could fucking imagine but you keep on insulting mentally challenged people. It must make you feel really superior to goof on those that can’t fight back to your cutting retorts. What am I stating? Of course people with disabilities can communicate better than you because unlike you, they make noises that signify something more important than anything you’ve ever said in your fucking life.

    Also, why I got banned had to do with a fact that Forbes later supported, and proved David very very wrong. Excuse me for making a point and him not liking me making it.

    The fact that you think you can take me down is rather funny. Given that you work in this industry but decide to be a fucking shit anonymously on this blog. Mendelson, Don, Lou, and even Drew at least don’t hide you silly shit. You are hiding because you damn well know if your bosses ever learned what you post on this blog. Your sorry no-talent having ass would be shit-canned and replaced by someone younger, smarter, and with the ability to FIGURE OUT THE FUCKING AVENGERS.

    You are and have always been the biggest blight on the ass of this blog. Gilbert has nothing on you. You astounding horrible movie reviewer.

  82. Jeffrey Boam's Doctor says:

    ” that this IS HOW TEAM UPS work in comics. Seriously, this is a part of the genre, and getting pissy about it or frustrated about it, ignores how important it is. ”

    Call the white coats we’ve got a live one here.

    ps – I love how you think calling me a ‘lady’ is some vague insult. Highlights another of your endearing personality traits. Misogyny.

  83. JS Partisan says:

    No I refer to you as Lady because unlike leah, who’ve you attacked, it’s letting people know that you are hiding to seem tough. The fact that you think I am a misogynist is another reason why you are so fucking stupid. Seriously, fuck off, let the rest of us try to have discussions that rise above catty insults.

    ETA: Seriously Lady, you can think you know me (you thinking I am a misogynist when you have zero proof other than obviously confusing me with Gilbert), but we all know one thing about you: YOU SUCK AT BASIC INFERENCE SKILLS!

  84. Jeffrey Boam's Doctor says:

    Quote from Boxoffice Magazine “The bad news is that if you haven’t seen Thor, Captain America and Iron Man 2—that’s six hours and three minutes of homework—The Avengers won’t make sense.”

    I love how the ‘lady’ who wrote the review this quote is from is attacked incessantly by a legion of JSP clones under her review.

  85. scooterzz says:

    nice to see io is as classy as ever….(i did enjoy the ‘gilbert’ reference, however)….

  86. JS Partisan says:

    Wow, another clueless poster shows up to give me shit. Hilarious but really, have I referred to anyone as a retard or a misogynist? No, but you keep on being clueless. You want to tell me to fuck off again? You know, because you are really classy yourself.

    Also, Lady, that woman wrote a moronic fucking review. Referring to me as having legions is funny but if you refer to Nick Fury as Nick Frost, then you’ve obviously not been paying attention. She also had a fucking agenda and when you have agendas in this day and age, people are going to get pissy. It makes me wonder if you are her because if you are, your inference skills really fucking suck.

  87. scooterzz says:

    such an easy lay…

  88. JS Partisan says:

    First David wants to see my dick and now you go on about sex. You middle-aged people really must be hard up for something out there in Los Angeles.

  89. Jeffrey Boam's Doctor says:

    Please stop editing your comments its giving me a headache. I can only imagine how you must backpedal in real life conversations.

  90. JS Partisan says:

    Lady, I asked for that edit function, David and the webmistress put it into this version of the blog, and I will use it. You not getting that some people might prefer another run through at things, makes me wonder how many drafts you give your reviews? Do you do them once or do you shit out 1500 words, and hope everything sticks?

    Also, backpedaling in real life? Really? You don’t know shit about me so stop fucking assuming Lady. I love ladies, love animals, and even have a Criterion Collection t-shirt. This isn’t to justify anything but to let you know, how out of bounds you are with your assumptions.

  91. scooterzz says:

    it doesn’t surprise that you don’t understand the term i used, you’ve always been a bit challanged…but to honestly believe that poland actually wants to see your dick says a lot more about you than him…
    btw — have you seen the grant morrison interview in playboy?…nice news about bats….

  92. JS Partisan says:

    Scoot, what on earth makes a middle-aged woman or man, whomever is posting as scoot right now, think you can infer that someone is fucking challenged? You clearly didn’t get a joke up there, but do I refer to you as having a mental disability?

    Jesus, there’s cattiness then trying to be mean, and in this case you are trying to be mean. Unfortunately you are being mean to someone who had a mentally challenged step brother, but that’s neither here no there really. It just means when you two assholes insult mentally challenged people, it demonstrates how truly mean you are being to someone you don’t know, for no reason other than you like it.

    ETA: Oh yeah since you enjoy being mean. Do you want to wish death on me? Aids? Cancer? Seriously, why stop at responding to me as a RETARD and then truly believing I am one, when you try to insult me for not being as classy as you.

    Seriously, you love being mean, so be mean.

  93. scooterzz says:

    wow…just reading that miserably composed post hurt…NOW would be a good time to use that ‘edit’ function that you so adore (and was, apparently, installed just to accommodate your demands)…

  94. scooterzz says:

    just read the edit…again, such an easy lay…

  95. JS Partisan says:

    Scoot, if you think that’s hard to read, then maybe you need a stronger prescription for your granny/granddaddy lens. Nothing makes you people come across as stupid as you usually seem, then you having a hard time reading a post. Especially given that we have posters on here that write in such a confusing style.

    Seriously, try harder to insult me, because right now old lady or old man: you are just once again making me wonder how you got to this advanced age without any dignity, what so fucking ever.

    You two, make me wish Gilbert had freedom. He might have his moments but he’s at least not a mean asshole. He can be an asshole but he never intends to treat people like shit, the way that you two do.

    I do find it funny that I am being attacked by one poster who loves goofing on women as a woman and has a nick that goofs on a dead man. While the other are actually two posters, probably a 50 something husband and wife (whom are both not easy lays anymore, but you know, that’s life), who think posting on a blog without any dignity is really really funny.

    ETA: Good lord, you think I am challenged but you keep using the same statement as if it makes you clever, is really so god damn ridiculous it’s sort of funny. Is that all from the faker and the wonder twins? If so, thank you for once again stopping by for another installment of HOT BLOG THEATRE!

    Please tune over to Hollywood Elsewhere, where most of the same posters post there, and they have extreme dissertations about our friend Gilbert!

  96. scooterzz says:

    io…nothing you just wrote makes any sense…i’m not ‘two people’…just one guy…
    the term ‘easy lay’ actually has nothing to do with just means ‘gullible’ or ‘quick to take the bait’….
    you continue to be a pretty ridiculous presence and when you get people actually willing to engage in conversation (ie: jbd & fs)the term ‘fucking asshole’ should probably be left off the table…just a thought…

  97. anghus says:

    How the hell does anyone defend Sucker Punch.

    I think you could make an argument that Sucker Punch is one of the most senseless movies ever made.

    Even at the most basic level you have a movie about a girl who is institutionalized and her escape is a fantasy about a burlesque house. And in that world her fantasy world is one where she’s constantly trying to get killed. Why do all her mental escapes take her to more perilous places?

    And then you make this plot point that the girl dances so seductively well and yet you never show her dancing.

    The movie is so bad. It’s like ten pounds of shit in a five pound bag. People who tell me they like Sucker Punch almost immediately invalidate any credibility they might have had. There’s nothing to defend other than Snyder’s penchant for interesting visuals. But as a story, as a narrative, it’s total sensless shit that can’t even abide by it’s own ridiculous logic.

    Children, you were right to mock Sucker Punch. It’s terrible.

    And JS, whether intended or not, you do come across like a misogynist. Starting every post with “Lady” makes it read like you’re attempting to use estrogen to disqualify an opinion.

    Bad form sir.

  98. Foamy Squirrel says:

    Hey, didn’t I say to avoid Sucker Punch?

    Bad anghus! Bad! Now go sit in the corner and think about what you’ve done.

  99. JS Partisan says:

    Ang, if you don’t get how I am using it, then that’s on you. Seriously, only you could come up with something so silly as; “Using estrogen to disqualify her opinion.” Yeah Ang, that’s how I work. Sure. [face palms]

    Scooter, bladiblah bladibalh bladiblah. Read the thread before posting. The next time you try to have a discussion with anyone. Assuming your shitty references make you clever and thus give you a reason to think the other person who dismisses them out of hand for being goofy, is challenged. Might not be the best tact to take.

  100. scooterzz says:

    keep on dancin’ sport…

  101. JS Partisan says:

    Keep on being lame and being unable to capitalize that “K”, goober.

  102. scooterzz says:

    io — a serious question: since you’ve anointed yourself the expert on comic-book culture around here…when was the last time you actually talked (really talked) with someone involved in the industry?…when did you last have the opportunity to sit down and discuss comic-book lore and the business of comic-book movies and tv series?….i ask only because several people here have done exactly that as recently as a week ago and, maybe, there are people who legitimately think you might be (gasp) wrong occasionally…
    you really don’t have to be such a dick…you’re in a room where you’re kinda the lcd…..

  103. JS Partisan says:

    Goober, if you can’t use my name, why should I respond to you? Now if you want to bring up talking to someone in the COMIC BOOK INDUSTRY, then I talk to people on the retail side of things all the time. Guys who have put in thirty to forty years on that side of things, and guys who know how it works. Guys who also have more knowledge about comics than I do.

    These guys know people all over freaking DC, Dark Horse, and to some extent Marvel. They know the ends and outs of the business and they, unlike you, enjoy are easy to discuss a wide variety of topics with in terms of the comic book industry.

    The fact that you even DARE to pin on me that I am a dick, when you came into a post one day and told me to “FUCK OFF”, is pretty god damn fucking funny. You also sitting down with Kevin Feige doesn’t mean shit. You know why? THOSE INTERVIEWS ARE POSTED ALL OVER THE NET. There’s nothing special about the conversations you have because I can read them on Io9, comicbookresources, superhero hype, comics alliance, bleeding cool, and even the Vulture.

    I am glad you think being a junket bunny makes you special but outside of the gift basket, everything they tell you comes out anyway. You know less about this film than I do, and you’ve seen it. Hell I can go on about how the shocking death in this movie has been discussed by most of us and we pretty much have figured out what will happen to that character in the future, but you keep thinking your discussions and interviews that we can all read, give you more insight into things when all they do is give you a chance to hang out in a hotel on a Saturday afternoon.

    ETA: Oh yeah I don’t give a shit if you think I am wrong. Why you people are so insecure about that shit is beyond me because really, who gives a shit? Is this life or death? No, it’s a discussion about pop culture: America’s chief export that most people really don’t give a shit about!

    If you think I am wrong, good for you. Legitimately wrong about what though? She posted an opinion that FS stated she was trolling with and I agreed. If that’s proving me legitimately wrong, doesn’t it prove FS legitimately wrong because he saw the movie and stated she trolled? Again, you don’t read this blog all that well and come in late, with opinions and statements that are totally unrelated to the discussions being had.

    Now, if I think you are wrong, then prepare for a return volley. Seriously, though, if you and that Lady went to a junket and she still came out with that bullshit review she posted that caught her some flack. Well, sorry, but people don’t have to take bullshit reviews. Especially bullshit reviews where a black man is replaced with a rather rotund English fellow as the leader of SHIELD.

    You also cannot spell out lowest common denominator? Really? You doing this on a phone with a shitty spell checker? Goodness, but yeah this blog isn’t about you. Hell has anything you’ve ever written her shown up anywhere else? Some stupid shit I wrote a lifetime ago did and the same can be said with Gilbert.

    You folks are lucky to have a place where most of you can hide under aliases and get your kinks off at bitching at one another or me, but that doesn’t change I’ve been here before you. I don’t care what you cover, I don’t care how long you have covered it, because this is the hot blog. You thinking you are better than anyone else, when you post on the HOT BLOG, is where you made your first mistake.

  104. Jeffrey Boam's Doctor says:

    In lay speak.
    He knows the fat comic book guy from The Simpsons.

  105. JS Partisan says:

    You just keep it so classy.

  106. chhristian says:

    Imagine the fully operational force of js’s opine when he actually sees the film.

  107. JS Partisan says:

    Christian, I will probably just post this . Why should I bother? I’m not a junket bunny, no swag here, and that means there’s no way that anything more than this would matter.

  108. Foamy Squirrel says:

    “If that’s proving me legitimately wrong, doesn’t it prove FS legitimately wrong”

    Oh, I’m wrong all the time.

    At least, that’s what I’ve been told…

  109. Joe Leydon says:

    Sweet Jesus, is David ever coming back to open a new thread?

  110. Martin S says:

    And the whole notion that if not for Fury’s ‘brilliant’ notion to assemble these heroes, that Earth would be doomed is silly. It’s not like if aliens attacked that Iron Man, Captain America, SHIELD, THOR, etc wouldn’t individually come to the world’s aid in defense of the populace.

    Well, that gets to the heart of the concept’s problem. Avengers was literally because team books were selling, and Stan had a handful of secondary characters, but nothing really planned for them. So he took the name, (and openly admits this), from the British show and slapped it on the cover.

    I could go off about the absurdity of the name compared to the actions of the characters, and how the comic industry perpetuated this for no reason other than OCD, but…

    …So Avengers true function is what we’re getting; to see these characters interact. It’s only other purpose is to be an orphanage for secondary heroes. Stan admitted that was the reasoning behind flipping the big name characters out for the also-rans like Hawkeye.

    Story-wise, it was bound to be a mess. They never locked the script down. Never. RDJ purposely let that out and Whedon reluctantly concurred, even though he and Feige had already said otherwise.

    So I give Feige credit for realizing the only way to overcome this was dump as much cash into the third act. He didn’t plan on doing this, but extenuating circumstances, (like choosing Whedon in the first place), forced his hand.

  111. The Big Perm says:

    Iron Man 2 was shit. That was a D- movie.

    Teaming up in The Avangers does seem like a good idea. While the idea that yeah, these guys would help out individually may be true, it seems liek they’d also fail if they did it that way. From the clips I’ve seen, you have Iron Man being shot out of the sky but saved by The Hulk, or Captain America get blasted and saved by Thor. If they didn’t have the backup, we’d be seeing Captain America get eaten by the aliens or whatever they do.

  112. hcat says:

    Martin, funny how history pretty much repeated itself. If there had been the will to make any of these titles when they were liscened out to other studios this whole franchise wouldn’t have happened. Sure the Hulk got made but also like the early Marvel history it was poorly received and was not as popular until his short stint in the Avengers.

  113. SamLowry says:

    I gave up trying to figure out the ending or the internal logic of Sucker Punch because it wasn’t worth the effort. The movie destroyed any interest I had by sacrificing all the worthwhile characters to save the bitchiest bitch of them all, the one character that my brother and I, on independent viewings, wanted to see die. We were rooting for her death, praying for her death, asking “When the eff is she gonna die?”…and she’s the chosen one?!?

    Test audiences must have pointed out that the movie ground to a halt whenever she appeared, that any sense of “fun” fled the scene and had to be lured back with considerable effort, but I’m sure Zackie blew off those complaints and insisted his artwork would suffer if a single frame was cut.

  114. SamLowry says:

    Also, I’m not the only one who wondered why it was considered a good idea to give a SAG card to someone who wasn’t an actor:

    “…Carano performs her stunts with a graceful physicality that looks almost like second nature. What she doesn’t possess, though, is an iota of movie-star confidence. Her line readings are monotone; her chemistry with the other actors is DOA…That Soderbergh cast this charisma-free superhuman, who wouldn’t know what to do with a one-liner if she had any, hints at the way his priorities have diverged from those of his target demographic.”

    Yet audiences had no problem with an action hero who didn’t appear strong enough to beat up an emaciated child, because AJ’s a frickin’ actress!

  115. Yancy Skancy says:

    Sam: Yes, it was ridiculous to hire Carano when action audiences have proven time and again they will except nothing less than respectable thespians in such roles (e.g., Chuck Norris, Steven Seagal, Jean Claude Van Damme, et al.).

  116. cadavra says:

    Yancy, you forgot to include the winking emoticon.

  117. doug r says:

    How is it we ended up with an Avengers spoiler thread when it HASN’T BEEN RELEASED YET and no Cabin In The Woods discussion thread?

  118. Yancy Skancy says:

    I see that THE AVENGERS is already #5 on imdb’s Highest Rated list, with a 9.0/10 average rating based on votes from 20,259 users.

  119. movieman says:

    Gee, I wonder how many of those 20,259 IMDB users have actually seen “The Avengers,” lol.
    Of course, for a certain group (Marvel and “Buffy”/Whedon fetishists), actually seeing the movie is pretty irrelevant at this point.

  120. Foamy Squirrel says:


    It has in some regions. Hence the “Hi from Sydney” line.

  121. SamLowry says:

    Yancy Skancy, let’s take that sentence and make one little change:

    “Yes, it was ridiculous to hire Carano when action audiences have proven time and again they will except nothing less than [men] in such roles…”

    Time and time again studios will churn out action flicks starring well-built ciphers that actually do pretty well, yet the successes starring women can probably be counted on the fingers of one hand. Why is that? Is it that the primary consumers of these flicks are young men who project themselves into the shoes of the ass-kicking hero, but they just can’t do it when that ass-kicker is a woman?

    Or is there something deeper at work here? Are most of the young male viewers willing to put up with talent-free heroes like Chuck, Steven, Jean, Arnold, etc, etc because they’re well-built and, um, easy on their eyes?

    TL, DR version: “Joey, do you like movies about gladiators?”

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