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David Poland

By David Poland

Man of Steel SPOILER Thread

Here’s space for you all, aside from my review.

Do not click through unless you are okay with spoilers or have seen the film.

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31 Responses to “Man of Steel SPOILER Thread”

  1. js partisan says:

    1) This movie represents the moment, that Warners screwed themselves out of billions of dollars. People were waiting and will wait for a post credit sequence, but everyone on this film lacked the foresight Chris Nolan had in 2005 with one Joker card. Their complete inability to tease that there is more in this universe, will bite them in the ass big time, when it comes to a second movie that they have to over-stuff with exposition in order to world build. People hated Iron Man 2 for a reason, and the world building set-up was one of those reasons.

    2) Zod should have been the last villain. Using him first, just sets up problems for future films.

    3) Those problems are: THEY’VE ALREADY HAD AN EPIC BATTLE SEQUENCE WITH ONE OF SUPERMAN’S GREATEST FOES, THAT WILL BE HARD TO TOP! The effects could be better in the sequel, but that fucking finale is too big. People may knock the Avengers finale, but it’s in scale to what’s to come in that universe at the end of Phase 3. This movie, has a climax that will be hard to top in future films, and that’s why it should have been the last battle of a trilogy. Now, they are probably just going to repeat it in the sequel with a new villain but make it bigger and louder!

    4) The cast are wonderful.


    5) “The Avengers” and “Man of Steel” show you two different responses to 9/11, and “The Avengers” may not be as realistic, but it sure as shit is not as hokey.

  2. Felix says:

    1) Superman does not kill. That is one of his strongest principles. And they have him snap Zod’s neck and commit genocide against the last of Krypton.

    2) None of the characters exhibited any personality.

    3) It was essentially a big budget remake of Superman II with the best bits of blockbusters from recent years thrown in. I’m sorry, but I liked the Zod/Superman fight better when I saw it in Matrix Revolutions.

    I could go on and on.

  3. Pietro says:

    1) Unleash the World Engine *vomits*

    2) Codex = MacGuffin

    3) I have no interest in an incarnation of Superman who steals, takes pleasure in revenge, gives no regard to collateral damage, and practically wretches the head off his enemy because he (and the writers) couldn’t figure out what else to do

    4) I think he’s kinda hot *vomits again*

    5) Everyone and their mother now knows Clark is Superman so what’s the freaking point of the glasses

  4. Hallick says:

    It’s a very odd movie. I think they got an actor who looks 100% perfect in the suit and does a respectable job in the part, but at the same time he just doesn’t have that “x factor” in him to make Superman great here.

    I’m done with seeing action sequences like the one in Metropolis now. It must have taken an enormous amount of work to create that climax, but I am so freaking numb to seeing skyscrapers collapse and bodies tear through them at every angle. There’s just nowhere left to go from here. You can’t destroy anything bigger (a planet maybe, but hell, we’ve seen that here and in the first Star Trek already).

    Too many parts of the movie, from Michael Shannon’s performance to the score to the constant camera zoom-ins and zoom-outs, started at TEN OUT OF TEN!!!!! They had nowhere left to go but straight past ridiculous. Zod screams more than half of his lines here like a man under the influence of a barely controlled ‘roids rage. It’s a tribute to Shannon’s physiology that he didn’t burst a vocal chord during the making of this thing.

    I’m not sure how I feel about Jor-El being turned into a cross between Flash Gordon and Obi Wan Kenobi in this reboot. If Brando had been given this much screen time in the original Superman maybe people wouldn’t have bitched so much about his salary. Crowe is great though, and his stuff with Amy Adams during the escape scene was fun to watch.

    Oh the women…they got the shaft. Lois Lane is here to be a damsel in distress and not much more than a girl who can’t stop plummeting to Earth uncontrollably. Ma Kent is kind of a moron who looks directly at the spacecraft two seconds after feeling Zod’s fingers around her throat and gets her husband killed going back into a tornado to save a dog that people who actually care this much about dogs would have grabbed in the first place (I call bullshit on that whole moment. As well as a maternal instinct, there’s also a spousal instinct that knows in its bones, hey, it sucks, but the dog is toast, you don’t fucking risk your soulmate on a suicide move to save it. PETA’s heart gets warmed maybe, but who cares? I love animals, but that’s a situation where sane pet owners would be going “dammit…” and cry like a baby under the overpass).

  5. Hallick says:

    Felix, Superman himself is the last Kryptonian, so he didn’t really commit genocide at that point so much as wipe out half of his species. It’s not a war crime, okay? Might have meant more if Zod was the last female Kryptonian alive and Clark had just killed the last chance to breed a new Kryptonian civilization (which I guess would have had to inbreed for the next gazillion generations to reach a decent population level, which in turn would have created a race of people with the IQ of Bizarro Superman, which means, umm, scratch that whole thought).

  6. The Pope says:

    I think Costner was very good. He got the most emotional scenes, the best ones and the strongest ones (even if the one out in the yard after the school bus accident was a weak one).

    I loved his line “But you are my son.”

    And the way he exited was very good.

    Otherwise, the film was … meh.

  7. Techumseh says:

    If you look at the original stories of superman, he killed people al the time. He had no problem throwing gangsters out of the window of skyscrapers. also batman used to carry a gun so get over that.

  8. js partisan says:

    I prefer Superman not kill anyone, but Zod left him no choice. Also, Zod would eventually kill him. It’s a kill or be killed situation, and Superman had to do what he had to do. Why people are seemingly ignoring that Zod is a monster, hell bent on destroying all of humankind, and will never stop unless stopped… is beyond me.

  9. hcat says:

    So what do people think the final WW tally will have to be for this to be granted a sequel? Do they do another Supes before bringing back Bats or anyone think if this hits real big we go staight to Justice League?

  10. Water bucket says:

    I saw it!!!! Spoiler alert: I came twice.

  11. Bulldog68 says:

    @ Hcat. It’s the 2nd billion dollar movie this year.

  12. Eric says:

    So he likes a girl so he goes and gets a job where she works? I think we’ve got a clinger on our hands.

  13. hcat says:

    I have to give Water Bucket credit for creating the most innovative ratings system on the web today.

    “we should rent Magic Mike, Water Bucket gave it five squirts”

  14. Joe Leydon says:

    OK, did I miss something, or did they ever explain how that Kryptonian spacecraft was buried under ice for “thousands” of years? If it was down there that long, then how did…? Oh, wait, am I being too logical here?

  15. Eric says:

    I think the buried spacecraft was not sent by any living Kryptonians we saw in the movie; they were an older expedition that didn’t pan out.

    I remember a discussion about ships sent out to explore and then being effectively abandoned, but it was late and I was sleepy, so who knows.

  16. berg says:

    there is mention of previous Krypton expeditions into space that were abandoned ….

  17. Joe Leydon says:

    Berg and Eric: Yeah, I got that part. But if the spacecraft was down there that long, how did Jor-El manage to stock his hologram — and, ahem, other things — on board? (I cannot believe I am devoting this much thought to this…)

  18. berg says:

    there’s always the possibility that Krypton exists in A SPACE TIME continuum that allows space flight along different time paths so they couldve sent the spaceship back …. ok nevermind

  19. amblinman says:

    Movie was okay. Definitely waaaay too long. I think some of the criticism is warranted, I do think people are going into nitpick mode because it wasn’t as good as the trailers promised. If I had to rate, this one is so much better than virtually all the Marvel films save the first Iron Man, and 20 minutes of The Avengers. The biggest problem for me is that the fights all look exactly the same. You get bored with them very quickly, and we don’t have any one great Superman moment in the entire film.

    @JS, I’m SO over the stinger obsession with these movies. Good on WB and Snyder for deciding not to make a Marvel movie starring Superman. And honestly, other than referencing a Luthor appearance for some future film, what are they supposed to include? A shot of Martian Manhunter?

  20. greg says:

    I’m a huge Superman fan and was really looking forward to this.. but its wildly mediocre..

    Also, if there are 3 or 4 people with Superman’s powers.. sort of makes the big blue Boy Scout just one of a group and nothing special…

    And for the last time.. if you can fly, and the person you are battling can’t (they hadn’t learned how early on) just grab them and throw them into space and be done with this already…

  21. Dr Wally Rises says:

    Just got back, my take, by the by – MOS is this year’s Prometheus. An ultimately honourable failure with moments of grandeur and greatness in amongst the mess. I disagree that there are no seeds being planted for the sequel or the JLA here. Look at the name on the side of the oil tanker in Metropolis. Note that Clark was present at the burning oil rig (was the destruction of the oil rig an accident or deliberate?). 2+2=4.

  22. Eric says:

    Joe: Again, I might be misremembering. But I think Clark took the little codex doohickey (that macguffin USB key with the S logo), which he already had, inserted it into the ship’s computer, and that loaded up the Jor El program.

  23. js partisan says:

    Wally, there are seeds, but this movie should have been their Iron Man. It should have had a stinger at the end of it, that either introduced the new Bruce Wayne or Lex Luthor. Is that a zany stretch for some? Possibly, but Marvel already showed us how something zany, could lead to one of the biggest films of all-time. DC/WB needed something as bold and as big for the ending of this film, and they totally dropped the ball. You only get so many of these moments, DC/WB had one, and now all they are left with is this year’s Prometheus. What an achievement!

  24. Joe Leydon says:

    JS: Seriously: Would you have been happier if they’d just taken the last few minutes of the movie — Clark tells his mom he’s getting a job, and then he shows up at The Daily Planet — and moved it until after the closing credits?

  25. js partisan says:

    Joe, no, I would be happier if a WORLDWIDE CONGLOMERATE’S FILM DIVISION, had the balls of Marvel. The reason why we are no where close to a JLA movie is: DC/WB lack the balls to make it happen. Somehow, they have let a company they almost owned, become stronger than they are as a company, and that company made an Iron Man movie that’s one of the biggest films of all time. One more time: six years ago, if you told people that an IRON MAN MOVIE would make a billion plus dollars. They’d laugh in your face, but Marvel had a plan. They had a plan and they have Kevin and Co., who continue to crank out movies that are nowhere near as shit as the DC movies have been since GL.

    DC are stuck making consecutive shit superhero films. GL is shit. TDKR and MoS are films with quality casts, that are shit fucking films. DC should be better than this, but they lack the people behind the camera to make their heroes come to life. We’ve gotten close with Batman, but even Nolan shits the bed from time to time.

    I want DC to have Marvel like courage, but that seems impossible. I’d also like them to make a quality fucking movie. This thing is such shit, that it bugs the fuck out of me that Superman is once again saddled with a shit film. A film, like Returns, THAT IS ALL ABOUT THE VILLAIN WANTING LAND! Seriously, it’s almost the same fucking plot, and that’s god damn ridiculous.

  26. Triple Option says:

    I did think it was too long. For reasons mentioned above about been there, done that on the fight scenes. It’d be kinda nice to know what would destroy or kill the Kryptonians. Do they have rejuvenating properties? I was wondering why Supes didn’t try to put his hand over Zod’s eyes at the end.

    I liked kid supes getting wigged out at all the senses that he had and the new way they did the x-ray vision. I thought just showing him getting picked on was more than a bit old hat and without any other sort of glimpse of his life, a bit out of context. Like, every day it seems like he was getting picked on, wouldn’t he have some sort of outlet? Humanize his life. I would’ve liked to have seen more of his life either kid or adult. Not just five seconds before danger.

    I’m not a comics guy so supes snapping his neck at the end didn’t bother me, other than it seemed rather anti climatic. It wasn’t even a creative neck snap. Just something you see on a commando raid when forces try to sneak into a compound and snap the outer guards’ neck before for hoping over the 10 ft wall.

    Letting him go after all they had done and were planning on doing would’ve seen misguided or at least a lame excuse to set up the sequel. I also agree that there could’ve have been more at stake in offing Zod to make it more conflicting. How hard would it be to kill the guy who admitted killing your father and then wants to wipe out the earth? Hypothetically he lets him go, if he comes back you know it’s going to kill a few thousand before supes even finds out about it.

    The placement of supes in the church was heavy handed. Do we have to have the cross and Jesus over his shoulders on each shot? Maybe one or two as a reminder but it was almost like The Truman show when the principals are telling and actually physically moving Jim Carrey to stand in a certain spot. I did think the wording on the scene itself was done very well.

    Hmmmm, was there anything else? Oh, well, I can’t think specifically now but I thought there were a good 4-5 pandora boxes opened in terms of how does society go back after these things have happened. Not necessarily society but they would certainly destroy Clark Kent living relatively annonymously. I know there are no more phoneboths for Clark to change in but urban legend/clark kent elements seem to anchor the man part of superman as much as anything else. That to me seems like the bigger hurdle to overcome than supes killing someone. But that’s just me.

  27. Joe Straatmann says:

    It’s weird. I could nitpick the HELL out of Man of Steel, but I didn’t really mind the movie.

    Jor-el is kind of a hypocritical asshole if you think about it. He doesn’t want Zod to be in charge of selecting whose bloodlines survive, but he steals the one thing that controls the genetic fate of Krypton and implants it in his son. Yeah, Jor-el, don’t have one person in control of the genetics…… unless it’s you or your bloodline. Got it.

    I think Lois Lane secretly has special powers. The way she can teleport to exactly where Superman is 3 or 4 times in the movie is amazing. Especially that last part in Grand Central Station with all of Metropolis’ infrastructure pretty much useless.

    The product placement goes past the point of annoyance and straight into desperate pandering. I was surprised the orders from Sears didn’t include Superman clocking Zod over the head with a washing machine and saying, “Thanks for the affordable, tough, and dependable appliances to fight evil, SEARS!” And you can tell their employees are trustworthy because if you can’t trust Ma Kent, who can ya’ trust? And why does Smallville get an IHOP? My hometown has 30,000 people in it at a very strategic spot on I-80 and an IHOP would’ve made a KILLING there, but alas, deemed too small. But the place that has small in its NAME gets one? Sorry, went off on a personal tangent……

    Then there’s the scene in the church. There are dozens of conversations to be had with a priest and a Superman who’s just been revealed to the world, and this movie wants NONE of them. Just the shot of Clark in front of Jesus and off we go!

    I can go all day with this. This is enough to bury the movie……. and I still was kind of okay with it. I’m tired of the zooms and shakes in obviously digital shots in order to make it “more real,” but I mostly liked the action. I liked all of the actors, even when they weren’t given much, if anything to do (Laurence Fishburne essentially makes Perry White out of nothing). The movie moved well for two-and-a-half hours. I liked the more melancholy tone, and I think splitting Clark’s early life up was the right call. Lately, when I’ve watched the first Superman movie, the parts in Smallville feel like they take FOREVER and splitting them up remedies that to a certain extent.

    So, yeah, though there’re plenty of things to fault it for, I didn’t feel any particular bit of pain or boredom. Even when Superman uncharacteristically fucks up Metropolis, I wasn’t bothered the way I was in Sucker Punch, which paves a good amount of bricks to Hell with its good intentions. *Shrugs*

  28. brack says:

    Zod said “one of two things are going to happem: you’re going to die, or I will”. Not exactly genocide when Kal-El is still alive and Zod gave Kal-El no other choice. Buy yeah, let’s focus on killing or that he doesn’t do that. Aside from the Donner cut of Superman II, it was perfectly acceptable to let us leaving to believe Zod and the others fell to their deaths, after being neutered of super powers. No one talked about how that was dark back in 1981, but whatever. Superman killed Doomsday (Supes died as well).

    The only weak spot I saw were the scenes with Perry White and the rest of the Daily Planet at the climax. I get we did know them, but we cared about them the least, so why even bother? Those scenes were still better than anything with Automaton Superman…oops, I meant Superman Returns.

  29. brack says:

    If Jor-El wanted his bloodline passed along, he and his wife would have left Krypton. He explained this to Kal-El, that in order for Krypton to have a chance, it wouldn’t include him. No one wanted to evacuate Krypton, and Zod was a murdering psychopath, what other choice did Jor-El have? Join Zod? That wasn’t his purpose. Remember, Kryptonians weren’t born without purpose anymore. Kal-El was the last Krptonian that wasn’t tainted.

  30. christian says:

    You know Jon Peters said to himself, “You ain’t seen nothin’ yet Kevin Smith…”

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It shows how out of it I was in trying to be in it, acknowledging that I was out of it to myself, and then thinking, “Okay, how do I stop being out of it? Well, I get some legitimate illogical narrative ideas” — some novel, you know?

So I decided on three writers that I might be able to option their material and get some producer, or myself as producer, and then get some writer to do a screenplay on it, and maybe make a movie.

And so the three projects were “Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep,” “Naked Lunch” and a collection of Bukowski. Which, in 1975, forget it — I mean, that was nuts. Hollywood would not touch any of that, but I was looking for something commercial, and I thought that all of these things were coming.

There would be no Blade Runner if there was no Ray Bradbury. I couldn’t find Philip K. Dick. His agent didn’t even know where he was. And so I gave up.

I was walking down the street and I ran into Bradbury — he directed a play that I was going to do as an actor, so we know each other, but he yelled “hi” — and I’d forgot who he was.

So at my girlfriend Barbara Hershey’s urging — I was with her at that moment — she said, “Talk to him! That guy really wants to talk to you,” and I said “No, fuck him,” and keep walking.

But then I did, and then I realized who it was, and I thought, “Wait, he’s in that realm, maybe he knows Philip K. Dick.” I said, “You know a guy named—” “Yeah, sure — you want his phone number?”

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“That was the most disappointing thing to me in how this thing was played. Is that I’m on the phone with you now, after all that’s been said, and the fundamental distinction between what James is dealing with in these other cases is not actually brought to the fore. The fundamental difference is that James Franco didn’t seek to use his position to have sex with anyone. There’s not a case of that. He wasn’t using his position or status to try to solicit a sexual favor from anyone. If he had — if that were what the accusation involved — the show would not have gone on. We would have folded up shop and we would have not completed the show. Because then it would have been the same as Harvey Weinstein, or Les Moonves, or any of these cases that are fundamental to this new paradigm. Did you not notice that? Why did you not notice that? Is that not something notable to say, journalistically? Because nobody could find the voice to say it. I’m not just being rhetorical. Why is it that you and the other critics, none of you could find the voice to say, “You know, it’s not this, it’s that”? Because — let me go on and speak further to this. If you go back to the L.A. Times piece, that’s what it lacked. That’s what they were not able to deliver. The one example in the five that involved an issue of a sexual act was between James and a woman he was dating, who he was not working with. There was no professional dynamic in any capacity.

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