MCN Blogs
David Poland

By David Poland

Weekend Estimates by Man of Klady

Be Sociable, Share!

70 Responses to “Weekend Estimates by Man of Klady”

  1. brack says:

    Great opening. The movie delivered what it promised based on the trailers/tv spots. If you didn’t care for those, I’d be surprised you’d like it, let alone go see it. Easily the highlight of the summer and the best Supes since Superman II, even if they’re completely differentIin tone. Anyone calling this opening a disappointment should consider the challenge of doing two reboots in a row, like with Hulk. A great opening for a reboot.

  2. The Pope says:

    Very disappointed to see how well After Birth is doing. I really had expected it to have disappeared by now.

  3. js partisan says:

    Yeah, it’s not a Superman movie. It’s a Superman movie set in the transformers universe, and obviously the word of mouth effected the movie. This probably means the film will be lucky to get to 300m domestically. Let alone, the 1.3 BILLION combine that some douchy Warners exec stated the film would definitely make. Superman, at least this Superman, lacks the heart and charm of TONY STARK. Hell, I will wager right now, that Thor makes as much as MoS. If that happens, it just puts DC in more of a hole, and it’s a hole they have dug themselves with their employment of David Goyer and their fear of seeing a bigger JLA picture.

    That aside, “Before Midnight” should have opened wide two weeks ago. SPC always has a movie a year that it screws like this, and they have definitely screwed “Before Midnight” out of a few scheckles.

  4. SamLowry says:

    It turns out we can’t blame Superman’s grim douchebaggery on Nolan or Snyder because Cracked says he’s been that way all along:

    5 Terrible Lessons We Learned from Superman Movies.

    And two, perhaps even three of those reasons come from the much-beloved SUPERMAN II.

    (I loved it when one critic replied to Pa Kent’s “Maybe” response to Clark’s “What was I supposed to do? Just let them die?” with “Isn’t that supposed to be a rhetorical question?”)

  5. brack says:

    Yeah, just what the world needs, a wise-cracking RDJ type being Superman. Besides, he had the more cheerful Superman movies with Reeve. Superman Returns tried it, and it worked at best with mixed results. No more please.

    How does Kal-El not have heart? He certainly plays like an alien raised as a human, especially compared to Automaton Superman from Superman Returns. I like Brandon Routh in everything outside of SR, fyi, but that was such a horrible performance.

    How is the top opening June weekend ever a disappointment JS? Was it supposed to open close to Avenger numbers? How, when this is the first Man of Steel, and I guess the beginning of JLA? And what bad word of mouth are you talking about? Film critics?

    My wife loved this one. She never liked the Superman character. Plus women are going gaga Henry Cavill.

    I forget who I’m talking to. Oh wait, no I don’t….


    That one still cracks me up. Never change JS.

    I actually like to hear your thoughts outside of you prancing around like the authority of what a movie based on a comic book character should be. At least you’re not David, who inherently doesn’t like effect movies (he said so himself).

  6. js partisan says:

    Sam, that’s the golden age. Post John Bryne Superman, is the Superman most people love.

    Brack, Batman never quits, and that Batman is no longer in film continuity for that reason alone. Aside from that, the movie is just shit. The cast are fine. The cast are the highlight of the movie, but everything else is just shit.

    Mark Waid summed it up best; “The world would have been better off, if Kal was never sent to earth.” Mark Waid has written Superman, his “Birthright” is a part of what they used for this film, and that is basically the problem with the film. Supes is supposed to make things better. He’s not supposed to fly through cities, crash ships into cities, and he’s never ever ever supposed to do what he did. I get the war on terror analogies but this is Superman, he can just hit him into space to knock his ass out.

    You may have not been around people who dislike the film, but they are out there. The film is shit. People love shit films all the damn time, but this opening is a DISAPPOINTMENT to whatever exec is running Warners. Why is it a disappointment? He stated it would make 153 million. Not matching that Brack, is a disappointment even if it that guy was crazy to state as much.

    Glad you love the movie, but Superman is my favorite Superhero. You obviously do not get what I meant by referring to Tony Stark, because he at least has a heart and a soul. This Superman is a genuine asshole for most of the movie. Superman would never destroy a guy’s truck, or even a government’s drone unless they were trying to hurt people. All of it is wrong but if you want this to be your Superman, then I look forward to the reboot in the next decade.

  7. christian says:

    How do you not include a scene where the Kents find their Superbaby and discover who he is? These are the actual pleasures of the character but I guess that would be too…fun. Besides, Superman kills about 100,000 people at the end. So DARK. They should have called it MAN OF STEEL: COLLATERAL DAMAGE.

  8. Joe Leydon says:

    JS: With all due respect, I think you have trouble grasping the obvious — “your” Superman may not be everybody else’s Superman. Just like “your” Batman may not be everybody’s else’s Batman. I grew up on Batman, Superman and World’s Finest Comics in the ’50s and ’60s, and watched The Adventures of Superman and the campy Batman TV series while I was in grade school and high school, so I (like many other baby boomers) grew up with a somewhat lighter view of the DC universe. (Anybody else out there remember Streaky the Supercat? Comet the Superhorse? Or Bat-Mite?) If someone made a movie that was “true” to the comics and TV shows of that era, you’d be apoplectic. But many of us would be greatly amused.

    On the other hand: Can’t say I cared much for Man of Steel, either.

  9. jepressman says:

    This movie is not a disappointment, it has its flaws but all films have flaws including the Oscar bait movies. No one gets their perfect movie and the critics are aware of that situation.So essentially these heated takes on the film prove that Snyder made a film worth seeing. Is there actually a rivalry between Ironman and Superman because THAT sounds silly.

  10. palmtree says:

    Will Supes get to 300? I had thought it would easily, but now with the negativity around it, 300 sounds like an uphill struggle.

  11. js partisan says:

    Joe, why are you responding, as if I am alone in feeling this way about “Man of Steel?” Use the google, read the complaints, and you will see a lot of people with a lot of the same problems. Sure, some people love it, but it’s rather asinine, really asinine, to state that these characters are not seen to have core character traits like not quitting, and never ever killing anyone.

    Also, I know the Silver Age Joe, and that Superman was pretty interesting. I also love Krypto, and would love to see Krypto in a movie. Again, if you love these character, you know these characters, and have the ability through inferring what they are and what they aren’t.

    Pressman, it’s a rivalry for box office and some people, thought it would do better box office than “Iron Man Three.” There’s also a rivalry in the whole, IT’S SUPERMAN, THE SUPERHERO, and he’s getting beat at the box office by a Superhero no one really gave a shit about six years ago.

    Oh yeah, it’s not about being perfect, as much about not being a shitty transformers movie.

  12. anghus says:

    I agree with Joe. JS, your biggest ongoing critical failure is adhering to specific criteria when it comes to comic book characters. If anyone does anything outside what you view as the ‘right’ version of the character, it is tainted and therefore without value.

    “Batman never quits”. Nolan’s Batman did. Frank Miller’s Batman did too.

    Fanboys have this morbid death grip on these fictional characters. A sense of ownership. If you watch a movie, and your criticism for it is derived from what you think or believe a fictional character should say or do, you’re going to be disappointed.

    To even claim you have a better understanding of these characters than the people involved in the adaptation is an act of hubris.

    When Drew put a bullet in Abrams Superman a decade back, it may have been a mercy killing. But it came from the same place. That kind of tight fisted clutch that strangles new ideas in favor a streamlined, expected version of the character. That you, as a fan, believe that you know what would work best in a Superman movie. And there’s no right or wrong there, merely opinion.

    However, if we go about judging movies based on what we believe is the ‘right’ version of the character, you’ve doomed anyone from ever trying anything new. You end up with Superman Returns where you get a Director who obsessively sticks to the predetermined path another creator has forged. While that might service the fans, it inhibits the idea that someone would create something new.

    I don’t know if J.J. Abrams Superman would have been any good with a Kryptonian Lex Luthor and other assorted deviations. But i think having those things exist is more interesting than watching fans clutch their beloved heroes so tightly that they strangle the potenbtial for something new and different.

    In this new franchise friendly Hollywood where we get superhero comic adapatations every frew months, i would prefer some risks being taken and some new roads charted. If not, these movies are going to get very boring, very quickly.

    Edit – And Joe, i also agree Man of Steel wasn’t perfect. But, i’ll take the failings of Man of Steel over the failings of Superman Returns. Take it in a new direction, or why bother?

  13. Bulldog68 says:

    Yes JS. I use the google and see a lot more folk liking this than hating it. Box office guessing should not be done based upon whether you like or dislike a movie, and thus far most of the negative reception is coming from critics. The general populace seems to be eating it up. Worse case scenario is Xmen drop of 37.6% of total gross and you get to $300m.

  14. J says:

    I prefer 1970s Erica Kane to 1990s Erica Kane when is she going to get the giant joyless superhero movie SHE deserves?

  15. Amblinman says:


    That post is perfect. Everything I wanted to say, only more articulate, thoughtful, and with reason.

    I also wanted to throw in my two cents about a subject that came up in a previous thread. Basically it’s the idea that WB made a huge mistake not including references to other DC characters. I was thinking about it today and was suddenly struck by how trained we’ve become by the studios. Why the fuck should any of us care that a movie has enough elements for a sequel or franchise? Just give me a great movie, I shouldn’t be obsessing over whether the movie can become a franchise. Not my problem, that’s a studio problem.

  16. Bulldog68 says:

    People seem to forget, the studios are not in the comic book writing business, they are in the movie business, and if they piss off a few diehard comic fans to make the material supposedly more accessible to the masses then with their $200m skin in the game, they will go with pleasing the masses.

    There are literally millions of people worldwide who have not picked up a single comic but have been to everyone one of these movies, because that’s the product they like. “Batman never quits.” They don’t care. “Superman never kills” Yes he does. “Hulk can’t be summoned at will.” Now he can.

    The studios will break any and every rule once it suits their pocket book. Sorry JS. You are just not a big part of the equation. You are a very very small piece in a humongous pie.

  17. Bulldog68 says:

    @ Amblinman: I remember lots of critics having serious issues with the ending of Captain America, as it made the entire movie a set up to The Avengers. We are becoming like trained mice, looking for that next nibble. I agree, give me a good self contained movie.

  18. Pete B. says:

    To quote The Hollywood Reporter:
    “Man of Steel, while drawing mixed reviews, earned an A- CinemaScore, portending strong word of mouth.”

    So I’m guessing the audiences are liking this Superman.

  19. js partisan says:

    Cinemascore? Really? I even liked the movie when leaving the theatre, because it has some good Superman moments. After thinking about it… it dawned on me that movie is total and utter shit, or a shitty transformers movie.

    Bulldog, Warners IS A STUDIO IN THE COMIC BOOK WRITING BUSINESS! You guys, all of you, love making these blanket simplistic statements, that ignore what’s really happening in the world. Warners, in particular, are in the business of trying to turn all of their comics into IP. That’s what DC wants to do for Warners. They want to create IP that they can turn into movies and games. The next time you want to be clever and think that you know something, read about it first. Until then, Bulldog, I buy comics weekly. All of this shit, the big pie, starts with me. Deal with it. You also need to deal that my box office take has nothing to do with my dislike of the film. Do you think that’s why I brought up “Before Midnight?” Seriously, if WWZ does this sort of opening, then it’s going to be hard to get 300. If WWZ does half and “Monsters University” does the other half, then this movie is still screwed. It’s fucking Math dude. It’s basic fucking Box office math. It’s basic box office shit, that Poland has been explaining on this blog for years.

    And to shut up Anghus once and for fucking all: I QUOTED MARK FUCKING WAID WHO WROTE FUCKING “BIRTHRIGHT!” He’s a guy, who has written Superman, has made money for DC, and he doesn’t believe it’s Superman. You fuckers go out of your way to sting me, when you are once again the same uninformed idiots you’ve always been. Please, enjoy your shitty fucking Superman movie, that has the same villain plot as “Superman Returns.” Sure, Angus is too busy being his geek hating self because you know, it’s not like jock white boys don’t go out of their ways to treat geeks like shit anyway, this motherfucker has to vent his “FANBOY” hatred online!

    He is so clever and probably did not catch on that the film he dislikes, is basically used as a template for this piece of shit, but he’s too busy writing about a shark/tornado hybrid to really give a fuck about anything. He also believes that I have a critical failing, which is funny. It’s funny because I know guys who have more comic book knowledge than all of you and you dare to think, that they can’t state what these characters are and are not. It’s a staggering level of bullshit that you should be ashamed to even reference.

    And WARNERS IS WORRYING ABOUT IT BEING A FRANCHISE! Do you think Lexcorp and Wayne logos show up in the movie for nothing? It has nothing to fucking do with being trained. It has everything to do with Marvel creating a inter-connected universe, and fucking DC lacking the balls to do it themselves. But hey, it’s not like there aren’t a ton of stories about this shit that you could source before making your uninformed fucking post online.

  20. leahnz says:

    wait, so for supes when did the options get narrowed down to either accepting the ‘new’ superman we got with the singer incarnation (ostensibly trying to emulate donner’s ‘tone’, which ended up just wishy-washy and middling and rather dull) or nolan/snyder’s grim wonderless spectacle of dourness and carnage? I don’t like either version. I’d have liked to see a new, modern superman that was brimming with energy and color and a sense of wonder and peril and urgency and really used modern effects to evoke a sense of wonder and thrills and magic in witnessing the bold, heroic acts of the only major superhero who can fly, who is a beacon of hope and the best traits of humanity, who fights for us because we are worth it, I’d have like to come out of a superman movie exhilarated and psyched, I don’t have to have canon, but i’d like to feel exhilarated by superman instead of pummeled by ridiculous effects and stupidity — so I have to be happy and settle for what is essentially a grim, arrogant bit of a bitch-ass punk who engages in death and carnage, that’s my option? NO THANK YOU.

    (and jf sebastian is right about this being superman in the transformers universe, sorry not to join the ‘whip the hard-out fanboy’ frenzy)

  21. js partisan says:

    Leah, it would be awesome to have a Superman the way you described, but that would require people to stop treating these DC movies like responses to 9/11.

  22. movielocke says:

    Ive got no skin in the comic book game, but this is definitely the best superman ive ever seen. Best acting, writing, character, villain, action. Just tremendous all around. I also like that superman doesnt play the game theory morality of batman and the government, he just goes for the best decision in the moment of the needs of the many needs of the one type shit. For being thesame villain as kahn, man of steel bested abrahms in every single department of the villain.

  23. Nick says:

    Most of you are insane. People LOVED Man of Steel. Critics were mixed. Actual, ticket buying people LOVED it. A/A- Cinemascore. Sold out 2pm show in CT — that NEVER happens. Applause with hooting and hollering at the end.

  24. Nick says:

    $300/$500 at the very least.

  25. movielocke says:

    Ive not enjoyed a comicbook movie that much other than dark knight or iron man.

    And i hated the trailer and continually mocked the movie for its angsty superman whisperer ad campaign of emo over the top garbage. The movie looked and felt pathetic limp and wimpy in the ads.

  26. Paul Doro says:

    People applauded at the end of Man on a Ledge at the screening I attended. Lots of movies get an A- from Cinemascore. If you love it, great, more power to you. But some of you seem awfully insecure about it, constantly pointing out the opening weekend box office or Cinemascore rating, as if the people who don’t love it as much as you are wrong. This is hardly the first movie with so-so reviews to open well.

  27. brack says:

    I was skeptical too that the movie would work so well, but from jump at Krypton, I was hooked. The special effects were simply stunning. Great action. Some very emotional scenes. I cared about Clark. Lois was good, and I actually believed she was a reporter, unlike the other film versions of her. Like I said earlier, the Daily Planet cast was filler, I hope we see more Perry White next time.

    And yes, Cinemascore is a pretty good at finding out what regular people think of films.

    I guess I’m out of the loop with the liberal use of the word emo. Anytime I read someone writing that, I get visions of kids wearing skinny jeans and having bad hair. Does it mean something else now?

  28. Paul Doro says:

    Yeah but why does the Cinemascore rating matter? Just makes you feel better? Don’t a lot of movies that get so-so reviews from critics do better with “regular people?” Does it prove that the movie is an instant classic and destined to be remembered 100 years from now?

  29. storymark says:

    “But some of you seem awfully insecure about it, constantly pointing out the opening weekend box office or Cinemascore rating, as if the people who don’t love it as much as you are wrong. ”

    They’re not pointing to it to say everyone loves it – just to point out the clear fallacy of claiming everyone hates it.

  30. brack says:

    Hardly so-so rating from David here, and I couldn’t care less about someone having a difference of opinion, but I do object to people reviewing a movie in light of what they think the movie should be, and not even remotely trying to understand where the movie is coming from. Just focusing what’s on the surface, and not looking any deeper.

    If you like or don’t like a movie, fine. No one here is insecure about it by talking about box office. JS called the opening weekend a disappointment because some suit at WB predicted a different number. It’s still the biggest June weekend ever, but that doesn’t matter, because some suit hoped for bigger. It’s not a real argument, but JS thinks it’s a valid pont just because he says it is. And the fact that JS can’t accept the idea of someone based on a comic book character acting any differently than he thinks he/she should, regardless of whether or not it is plausible, makes me wonder why he just doesn’t stick with comics. But JS isn’t logical; that’s not saying anything new.

  31. Sideshow Bill says:

    People applauding after a movie means nothing. People clapped at the end of GHOST RIDER when I saw it.

  32. brack says:

    People applauding after a movie is stupid unless you are attending a screening where the cast/crew are in attendance. That’s a big pet peeve of mine. You’re not watching live theater, stop pretending you are.

  33. Bulldog68 says:

    ” Until then, Bulldog, I buy comics weekly. All of this shit, the big pie, starts with me. Deal with it.”

    I don’t if anyone has more inflated viewpoint of their importance. I chuckled when I read that. Really JS, I think I actually guffawed.

    This may sound cynical but studios aren’t interested in making “good” movies. They are interested in making popular movies. It’s a total numbers game. So you can screm from the mountain tops that Man of Steel is shit and it does not matter one iota JS. You and your clique of comic aficionados don’t matter. Who matters are the droves and droves of people who know a lot less about the origins of superman but looking for theatre with an AC and left over money for overpriced popcorn and pop. They matter.

    If my popular movies happens to be good (Iron Man 1, Batman Begins, Spiderman 1, Pirates 1, Shrek 1), thats fucking icing on the cake. If it whittles down to a pile of crap, (Spiderman 3, Pirates 3, Shrek 3) so fucking what, as long as it continues to make money.

    I’m still waiting for that fanboy version of every comic book hero there is, and guess what, the few that there are, don’t make money. Batman Begins strayed from the formula, every incarnation of every super hero comic has to be reinvented for the big screen. That is why you’re not seeing the head comic book writer in charge of the screenplay, it’s a different medium and requires a different style of writing.

    So I’m sorry that you didn’t get the MoS you wanted. No scratch that. I liked this MoS. It had flaws, but what movie doesn’t. Some I will forgive, and some I won’t. I forgive this one, but didn’t forgive Prometheus. That’s life. MoS will go beyond $300m. That’s math. The only movies that have opened to over $100m and not made $300m are Twilights, Potters, and badly received sequels, like XMen Last stand. Even much hated Pirates 3 limped over $300m. It’s popular and a crowd pleaser among the people that matter, the crowds, and yes WWZ will take some away, and so will Monster’s U, but WWZ is a harder sell. There are some people who wont go see a Zombie movie, period. It would have to be something special to be blockbuster, and I hope it is.

  34. Paul Doro says:

    Who is saying that everyone hates it storymark? And is that the case with every single negative review of the movie brack? They don’t understand it? And I wouldn’t get too worked up about what one person says. With certain people, it is better to ignore.

  35. anghus says:

    Leah, because those are the two modern choices you have. Do you prefer Superman Returns or Man of Steel? The third choice would be “Superman movies aren’t my cup of tea”. I can only debate the Superman movies that exist. Not the ones that don’t.

    JS, Waid is a sanctimonious blowhard. He wrote some Superman stories. He’s one of a thousand people who have. He may have more perspective as someone who has written the character, but he’s just another opinion. The fact that he got to rewrite the origin story should have given him some perspective regarding reinterpreting what has come before. Waid, like many others stands on the shoulders of giants. It feels silly for him to be yelling at the guy the next level up.

    Seems kind of silly for a writer to get worked up over someone elses interpretation.

  36. Martin S says:

    Is Jason’s turnaround on Man of Steel the fastest flip in ‘Blog history? I know he’s prone to this, but I could swear it usually takes a few weeks of fanboy groupthink to change his mind.

    WB is not sweating the box office. China hasn’t opened yet. Japan’s not until August. NZ and OZ at the end of the month.

    …and this is before we include Jason’s usual argument; ancillaries. Product Placement alone was what, 150-175Mil before release?

    With A&M pegged at 150M, placement makes it a wash, and let’s say the budget was really 250. I don’t know most international splits, but say the average is 50%. That puts opening weekend at 100M for WB/Legendary, with 150M to go. If it drops 50% each week for the next month, then WB/Legendary takes another 50, with international markets opening at that time.

    It’s going to end up in the black, pretty easily. I don’t think it’s going to be as profitable as IM3 since Marvel got a bigger slice of the Chinese box office. But it’s not a financial or audience bust, in any form.

    As for Waid, has some valid character points, but it’s asinine for a guy who has worked for WB to not take the Siegel rights fight into consideration on changes made.

    Everyone seems to have forgotten one of the reasons MOS was even greenlit in 2011, was due to the possible split in profits and ownership that could have happened this year. WB needed to establish their own Superman origin in case that happened, so aspects like the Kents finding the rocket or Krypton exploding due to age, were dropped. I would bet one of the reasons Clark doesn’t save Pa Kent is because that could have been deemed “Superboy” territory, and since WB didn’t know what was coming with the lawsuit, decisions were made to deflect away from contention, in case they lost.

  37. js partisan says:

    Martin, which is so not your name so don’t fucking use mind, fanboy groupthink? Jesus christ, you people are fucking tiresome with your inability to know jack and shit, but your constant ability to act as if you do. BD is writing a post up there, that is just nonsensical. He goes on about my delusions of grandeur, then basically states he knows how the movie industry works. HE KNOWS WHAT THEY ARE DOING BECAUSE HE’S BULLDOG! HE’S A GUY ONLINE! HE KNOWS! Yeah yeah, sure you don’t, but let’s not act as if Marvel never brings in their writers to discuss these films. Sure. It never happens.

    Back to whatever his name is, who has the same reading comprehension of the rest of you. Who is going on about ancillaries dude? If this movie gets curb jobbed over the next two weeks, what will your response be? Seriously, stick on one topic not the 84 that you want to discuss, and try to not compare me to anyone else. I had reservations while watching the movie, that the few Superman moments of it all cannot change.

    Hell, knowing that Goyer and Co. intentionally wanted to murder that many people in the film, makes me think it’s even more shit than I already did. This isn’t a Superman movie. This is Transformers 4 a Summer early.

    Angus: it’s not someone else’s interpretation. Read what Leah wrote. That’s what people want from these films. People want to love Superman films, and that’s why this one is getting a fucking pass. Over time, like with Returns, it will be thrown under the bus.

    I simply do not get how some of you ignore, that these characters have certain ideals and characteristics, that people give them and believe in. These characters have years and years of stories that people have invested their time in, and you dare state they can’t say or tell you what we believe the characters to be? That’s a bullshit fucking argument on every fucking level.

  38. anghus says:

    If every movie adheres to pre-existing archetypes, why even bother making them?

    the screaming fanboy demands adherence to a form.

    I respect those willing to explore beyond the existing framework.

  39. leahnz says:

    wait, so it’s either singer’s version, nolan/snyder’s version, or ‘not my cup of tea’ now, those are the choices? how bizarre. how about d: none of the above. blech.

    to try to briefly address the ‘judge the movie for what it is, not what you wanted it to be’ cries, here’s a thought: don’t make a SUPERMAN adaptation if you don’t want people to yearn for SUPERMAN and judge the movie on how it services that iconic character. isn’t there a reason for choosing to adapt an iconic superhero to the big screen, because there’s something inherently compelling about telling the story of that character and what he stands for?

    I think the reason nolan’s batman adaptations are successful is because nolan and co took the core idea of the character of bruce wayne/batman, updated and transplanted him into a modern crime story and tech-savy era while retaining the essential spirit of the character/story/ethos, a reluctant vigilante with a tortured psyche – and it didn’t hurt that the dark knight also happened to play directly to nolan’s strengths: making rather dark character dramas with a bit of flair.

    But the story of Superman is NOT that of an inherently dark, tortured character like batman, why turn him into that, what is the point, why do we need yet another ‘reluctant’ hero and the whole tortured psyche and another variation on the tiresome ‘what does it mean to be a man?’ obsession? superman is a story of an alien child who comes to earth, is raised with love and kindness and while witnessing both the best and worst of human nature chooses the path of love, it takes an alien to see the best in us and fight for us, to set an example for humanity and mirror our desire for justice and righteousness. this current version of superman is a bizarre bastardization of what makes superman superman – and if you’re going to change the essential nature of superman, then deal with the criticism, or don’t make a superman movie.

  40. brack says:

    How exactly is this film a bastardization of what Superman stands for? What you just described as your interpretation of what Superman should be was there for me. Just because it doesn’t beat you over the head was smart. It allows the film to be free from retelling the same damn movie over and over again, but with better special effects. The origin story via flashbacks was a good idea. It held my interest all the way through and never having the thought pop in my head “I’ve seen this before, let’s get to the good stuff.” That’s a good thing.

    Are you trying to say that Kal-El doesn’t care about humanity? Of course he does, but he also knows that his powers make him a threat to the fearful. But yeah, this idea is so unSuperman in every way. Whatever, I guess go read a comic for your idea of Superman and quit complaining he’s not yours. But that’s not really a criticism of the film itself, but your preconceived notion of what is should be. I just don’t adhere to that mentality, but everyone can have an opinion, regardless of how well argued it is and isn’t.

    “And is that the case with every single negative review of the movie brack? They don’t understand it? And I wouldn’t get too worked up about what one person says. With certain people, it is better to ignore.”

    Generally people hate what they don’t understand, and David’s review wad so revolting and one-sided that I wanted to point it out. Had nothing to do with defending the movie, and everything to do with his response to the movie. It was sloppy and assumptive. He already knows he’s going to have 20x more fun watching Pacific Rim. How does he know that? Easy, he already made up his mind. Furthermore, why write reviews at all when you already have an idea in your head that you will like X but not Y? There’s no credibility if that’s the attitude.

  41. CGI says:

    “How exactly is this film a bastardization of what Superman stands for?”

    Because he murders a guy, ignores civilians in danger, and does not act heroically.

  42. Paul Doro says:

    Is it really a difficult movie to understand brack?

  43. Martin S says:

    Leah – I think you’re right, but if you really stick to Superman, it’s more Americana than Captain America, and studios are mortified about how that plays internationally.

    So the iconism and your depiction aren’t the same thing. Yours is like, Super-Starman, and probably closer to what the MOS guys were aiming for.

    You can sum up the change in one comparison. In Superman 2, an entire scene is built around Zod finding Superman’s “weakness”, that he cares for people, so they train their attacks on the populous. It’s the major scene. With MOS, that scenario is inverted.

    If they held to the Superman 2 ideal, but on the MOS scale, it would have been just as amazing to watch Superman save hundreds of people at a clip as the never-ending battle was.


    These characters have years and years of stories that people have invested their time in, and you dare state they can’t say or tell you what we believe the characters to be? That’s a bullshit fucking argument on every fucking level.

    That was true a decade ago, Jason. Not anymore. When readers kept the comic companies alive, pre-Raimi Spidey, it was a valid argument. It’s just no longer the case.

    Marvel is alive because of the movie and cartoon audience, same with DC. The difference is now they could both stop publishing all monthly books and increase value, where before, it would have been a deathknell. The only reason they keep the monthlies going is to generate storyboards and retain IP. But now, IP can be kept alive through the conglomerate.

  44. Triple Option says:

    I’m a little surprised that supes didn’t crack $125M and who knows by midday Mon will we find out that it didn’t beat $110M. The film may do “alright” but I wonder if WB isn’t going to have some convos about casting maters, the director’s name matters, quality matters. There’s only so far hype will take you. If Iron Man and Thor hadn’t been crowd pleasers, The Avengers wouldn’t have busted out so high. With all that led into The Dark Knight then breaking the record, a highly re-watchable Batman Begins I’d still peg a core to its success. I think the re-booted spidey suffered because of spidey 3 just like I think X-Men FC took a hit because of X3 and a mediocre Wolvie.

    The novelty of superhero movies has left the bldg. 3D films aren’t cheap. There are a lot of choices. The last supes was largely forgettable. I would kind of expect higher audience scores by those there who wanted to see it most. I’d expect those ratings to drop a little. I don’t know if this film’s appeal will translate into a bigger opening or total for the next go around. While the same whole group may be back for round 2, I don’t think a call is going out Mon morning telling everyone to get to cracking on the sequel. Maybe, but it’s not a no-brainer.

  45. Amblinman says:

    “Until then, Bulldog, I buy comics weekly. All of this shit, the big pie, starts with me. Deal with it”


    Ah, Internet.

    The movie’s logic in having Superman kill Zod is pretty solid. At that point there is no means available to Supes to stop Zod from murdering those people, and countless others unless he kills him. They just had a fight that leveled the city. If you’re Superman, you don’t want this guy getting a round two.

    Is it true to Superman’s history as a comic book character? The correct answer is “Who cares?” I’m tired of comic book fanboys demanding absolute adherence to that medium. These characters are open to different interpretation. You can argue whether or not a given characterization is well executed, but insisting that any deviation from norm is in and of itself inherently bad is painfully stupid.

    The Great Gatsby can feature rap music but god forbid Superman not wear red underwear and the caterwauling is piercing.

    P.S. the pie most certainly doesn’t begin with you. You’re a die hard. You’re there opening day. They already have your money the minute the project is announced. You’re actually the easy “get” of all the movie goers they’re looking for.

  46. brack says:

    “Because he murders a guy, ignores civilians in danger, and does not act heroically.”

    He murders Zod because he had to. When was the last time you fought a super being who vowed to kill the human race? What choice did Kal-El have? The simple answer is he had no other choice, believe it or not. Sorry if that doesn’t seem like. Superman move, but it made sense in the fact that there was no other way to contain Zod.

    Kal-El isn’t heroic? He saved all man kind. How much heroic can you be?

    How does Kal-El ignore civilians in danger? He gave himself up to Zod, in an attempt to save human life. He fought Zod where he could considering where the Krypton machines we located. Kal-El had not choice but to fight In Metropolis. Didn’t the same thing with Doomsday?

  47. christian says:

    “People applauding after a movie is stupid unless you are attending a screening where the cast/crew are in attendance.”

    And I hate it when people laugh and scream at films too!

  48. leahnz says:

    martin s – yeah i can imagine the traditional ‘americana’ truth-justice-andtheamericanway aspect of superman would be a concern for international appeal (if that’s what you meant above), but i think that’s easily toned down to encompass a wider more ‘global citizens’ approach while keeping superman’s fundamentally optimistic love of/faith in humanity and desire to keep us from harm as his base approach (actually one thing that surprised me about this new incarnation was how little effort was made to feature supes as more of an international force for peace to appeal to a more global audience, go figure; superman may have been raised in america but by golly he can fly half-way around the world in a heartbeat to save people from disasters both natural and man-made)

    clearly some people are never going to see or admit how this new conflicted, dour and rather arrogant mass-carnage ‘my way or the highway’ killer Supes is a bastardization of the essential nature that defines the superman character, in some laughable attempt at ‘realism’ and presumably to appeal to ‘today’s audience’ (what that says about the assumed mindset of ‘today’s audience’ i don’t know, nothing good that’s for sure) so i’m not going to bother adding to what others have already said or trying to clarify further.

  49. movielocke says:

    Zod wanted to die. He wanted a warrior’s death and he knew the only way to do that was to give Supes no choice. That’s why despite Zod kicking Supes ass all over the place he suddenly winds up in a sleeper hold, lol.

    Beside, Superman had already laser-eyed-killed the chamber with the 20,000 year old fetuses, killed all the Kryptonians and vanished their technology to the nether world, what else did Zod have to live for?

    I have a feeling we’ll see lex luthor profiting from the ‘broken windows’ of the zod supes fight in the sequel and also a ghostbusters 2 esque reaction to the devastation supes has let happen.

  50. CG says:

    “The simple answer is he had no other choice, believe it or not.”

    You do realize this movie was not a documentary?

  51. Sam says:

    ““People applauding after a movie is stupid unless you are attending a screening where the cast/crew are in attendance.”

    And I hate it when people laugh and scream at films too!”

    Really? You think laughing and clapping are the same thing?

    Laughing and screaming are visceral reactions to a film. You do them semi-involuntarily, and doing so is all part of the process of enjoying a movie.

    Clapping is a deliberate, conscious act of communication: you’re signifying your approval and praise to somebody who did something you appreciated. When there’s no one there to receive the message, it is indeed just about the dumbest thing ever.

    Maybe I should be more philosophical about it and say that clapping at a movie is a statement on the illusory power of cinema: how readily we can suspend our disbelief and lose ourselves in the thrall of a movie. We “forget” that what’s on the screen isn’t real, and so we clap because on some level we’ve lost sight of the fact that all movies are is coordinated light and sound.

    But, eh, no, clapping at a movie is still stupid.

  52. anghus says:

    “P.S. the pie most certainly doesn’t begin with you. You’re a die hard. You’re there opening day. They already have your money the minute the project is announced. You’re actually the easy “get” of all the movie goers they’re looking for.”

    This reminds me of that scene in Private Parts when they discuss that those who like Stern listen for an hour a day, and those who hate him listen for two.

  53. Foamy Squirrel says:

    Re: Cinemascore

    I did a bit on this blog back in 2011 when DP was saying how misleading Cinemascore could be, and he backed that up with a chart of 18 films with their Cinemascore and corresponding ranking in terms of legs.

    I pointed out that if you started with $100 and went through every possible pair of movies on that list betting half your running total each time on which movie in that pairing had the better “Legs Ranking”, if you based your choice solely on Cinemascore you’d walk away from that game with $3700 in your pocket.

    Is it perfect? Nope. Is it good enough to make money from? Yup.


    There are 153 possible pairings on that chart. For each pairing, if I made the decision to reinvest based on the Cinemscore I’d make the correct decision 79 times, the wrong decision 41 times, and no decision (equal score) 33 times. That’s a pretty reasonable run if I were a gambling man. If I started with $100 and bet half my money each time, I’d walk away with $3700 in my pocket.

    As I explicitly said, however, that’s not the applicable usage of Cinemascore. I’d also argue that demo information isn’t that useful – you may want 18-35s to turn up, but if your film appeals more to the 45-60s and that’s who turns up you may still get an “A” because the marketing and content are matching. Segmentation via psychographics is much more useful than demographics.

  54. hcat says:

    ‘You do realize this movie was not a documentary?’


    This he had no other choice arguement is one of the dumbest things I’ve ever read. Its a work of fiction, the writers simply give him a choice, and he takes the right one since he is Superman.

    And isn’t one of the joys of a Superman movie watching him save civilians? One of the few things that Returns got right was his zipping around the city, catching the globe, melting the glass with his heat vision.

    This is why Luthor is such a better villian than Zod or some other muscleman. Who needs to see supes punch when we could see him change the course of mighty rivers. He needs to have ‘seven trials of hercules’ problems to overcome, that is what makes the charecter unique. But they decided to go with the same Alien invasion we seem to get every summer for the last decade. After seeing Jeff Goldblum, Shia Labouf, and the measles topple similiar invasions, having Superman do it seems like a waste of his abilities. Its like if they decided in the mid-nineties to have Batman fight terrorists in an enclosed (possibly mobile) location.

  55. christian says:

    “Clapping is a deliberate, conscious act of communication: you’re signifying your approval and praise to somebody who did something you appreciated. When there’s no one there to receive the message, it is indeed just about the dumbest thing ever.”

    No, it’s not. It’s signifying a collective AUDIENCE reaction approval – which is why people go COLLECTIVELY to films. And audiences have been applauding films since the 1930’s. As if screaming or laughing is so involuntary – and often both leads to applause in action, comedies or even drama. How does a horror or comedy film “receive” this message from the audience as opposed to another genre?

    Ever see STAR WARS in a a theater on release? Applause. Lots of it. The crowd BOO’D when Darth Vader came out (dumb audience!) ROCKY? Shitload of applause. When I saw SUPERMAN 2 opening week with a crowd of paperboys, the chairs rattled from the applause. It’s a form of tribute. And audiences do it today — even at my screening of MAN OF STEEL.

    Only the most cynical disconnected soul thinks audience applause is “dumb.”

  56. anghus says:

    I think after Superman Returns, they decided they needed to have him do more punching. But they went so far in the pugilistic direction that it became kind of amusing.

    the Superman of Superman Returns punched nothing?

    Our Superman punches EVERYTHING!

  57. hcat says:

    And even with the frontloading that happens with horror movies, that Purge drop is pretty brutal. I know they are probably into profit already, but that has got to be a little disheartening.

  58. Bulldog68 says:

    Purge cost $3m to make. It will out gross After Earth. There is no disheartening here. If it had opened to $10m, had legs, and got to $60m, the theatre chains get more money. As it opened to $34M and implodes to $60m, the distributors get more of the pie. Funny how that works. They are extremely happy.

  59. hcat says:

    But with with an opening of 34, don’t you think they thought 80-100 might have been possible? Not that they wont be estatic with 60 but after that opening I would think they were hoping for Paranormal Activity numbers as opposed to Insidious.

  60. Bulldog68 says:

    They might have thought that, sure. But the horror genre these days, they are barely making double the opening weekend for their eventual total gross. And in summer with all the big tentpoles taking eyeballs away, who knows, maybe they might have achieved the same opening in August and a bit more legs…maybe. But the bubbly is still aflowing on this one.

  61. hcat says:

    Their chamapiagn budget has probably tripled aleady. Universal seems to be having a hell of a year, Oblivion seems to be a draw, but all their other releases have been runaways and they have Despicable Me 2 on deck. RIPD or Ronin might later bring them down to earth a little, but for now they just have to be enjoying a nice winning streak.

  62. Martin S says:

    HCAT And isn’t one of the joys of a Superman movie watching him save civilians?

    It’s what’s expected, which is why the probably went against the grain.

    I do think it would have been a great visual to see how many and how big the saves could have been with that budget. It’s the one thing no other character can emulate.

    This is why Luthor is such a better villian than Zod or some other muscleman.

    Luthor doesn’t sell in promotionals, toys, etc… it’s a blackhole unlike any other character. Every time a toy line includes Luthor, it’s the worst-seller, not just for the line, but for any comparative release.

    They went with Zod because of the 80’s fetish currently en vogue and it’s a natural setup for escalation. Zod’s stasis suit is almost identical to Luthor’s 80’s power suit, just as Zod’s ship is the Brainiac 80’s Giger ship.

    And I really can’t discount the Siegel lawsuit from any decisions, either, such as Luthor is a Siegel character.

    I remember when word first broke in 2010/2011 about Goyer’s approach and it was openly reported that he and the Nolan’s had devised a way to develop Superman so it had no direct basis in the ownership fight.

    I could see the logic being if they lost the lawsuit and had to split rights – which means a 50/50 on all profits and creative control or the Siegel’s could have taken their piece elsewhere to produce another Superman – WB decided to rebrand theirs “Man Of Steel” and go onward.

    So you remove the name from the A&M, even though it’s only second to Mickey Mouse globally, remove the yellow from the insignia, change the meaning of the insignia, how Amy Adams and Fishburne have no physical resemblance to Shuster’s original designs, the drop of Jimmy Olsen, no use of Kryptonite or Luthor and all the sidesteps in Smallville, which leads right to the big complaint, how he makes decisions which were very un-Superman.

  63. jepressman says:

    All this conversation about a Superman movie as if it were La Dolce Vita. I would say Snyder has done a good job with the subject.

  64. anghus says:

    i like the part at the end where Superman cries like Ralphie in A Christmas Story after he beats up Scott Farkus

  65. chris says:

    Egad, “Berberian Sound Studio” is terrific. Not gonna happen, but Toby Young ought to generate Oscar talk with that subtle, smart performance.

  66. YancySkancy says:

    Not gonna happen for journalist Toby Young, but maybe Toby Jones…? 🙂

  67. chris says:

    Oops. Sadly, it’s probably just as likely for either of them.

  68. hcat says:

    Thats funny, when I looked at this list the other day the title Berberian Sound Studio stuck out at me. One of those indie movies whose entire theatrical run is witnessed by a couple thousand people, and it always makes me wonder what gets them into the theater for the really obscure titles.

    ‘Plans tonight?’

    ‘going to the movies’

    ‘cool, whatcha seeing?’

    ‘Berberian Sound Studio’


  69. chris says:

    It’s not a great title, that’s for sure (and I imagine a lot more people are seeing it on VOD than in theaters).

  70. hcat says:

    Not knocking that you saw it, I love IFC and will go on netflix binges of their releases for a week or two at a time. Just that almost all their films are insular titles that never scratch the public conciousness, and the only people that would go up and say ‘Two for Berberian, please’ are the people that frequent sites like this.

The Hot Blog

Leonard Klady's Friday Estimates
Friday Screens % Chg Cume
Title Gross Thtr % Chgn Cume
Venom 33 4250 NEW 33
A Star is Born 15.7 3686 NEW 15.7
Smallfoot 3.5 4131 -46% 31.3
Night School 3.5 3019 -63% 37.9
The House Wirh a Clock in its Walls 1.8 3463 -43% 49.5
A Simple Favor 1 2408 -50% 46.6
The Nun 0.75 2264 -52% 111.5
Hell Fest 0.6 2297 -70% 7.4
Crazy Rich Asians 0.6 1466 -51% 167.6
The Predator 0.25 1643 -77% 49.3
Also Debuting
The Hate U Give 0.17 36
Shine 85,600 609
Exes Baggage 75,900 62
NOTA 71,300 138
96 61,600 62
Andhadhun 55,000 54
Afsar 45,400 33
Project Gutenberg 36,000 17
Love Yatri 22,300 41
Hello, Mrs. Money 22,200 37
Studio 54 5,300 1
Loving Pablo 4,200 15
3-Day Estimates Weekend % Chg Cume
No Good Dead 24.4 (11,230) NEW 24.4
Dolphin Tale 2 16.6 (4,540) NEW 16.6
Guardians of the Galaxy 7.9 (2,550) -23% 305.8
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 4.8 (1,630) -26% 181.1
The Drop 4.4 (5,480) NEW 4.4
Let's Be Cops 4.3 (1,570) -22% 73
If I Stay 4.0 (1,320) -28% 44.9
The November Man 2.8 (1,030) -36% 22.5
The Giver 2.5 (1,120) -26% 41.2
The Hundred-Foot Journey 2.5 (1,270) -21% 49.4