Weekend Estimates by Summer’s End Klady
A horror film leads a horrible weekend at the box office (though it is better than this weekend was last year). Don’t Breathe is the third best horror opening of the summer and the #1 original horror film. Congrats. Suicide Squad continues to do steady business, in spite of the hate for it in media circles. And Kubo stays in line with Laika’s output with Focus.
The last time we had a $20 million opening in the weekend before Labor Day was 2010… and we had two… and both were horror movies, one from Lionsgate and one from Screen Gems. A year before, we actually had a better opening in this slot, The Final Destination, from New Line/WB.
Anyway… zzzzzz…
Suicide Squad is going to top Man of Steel domestically and will be close to it worldwide when all grosses are counted. The big question is whether the sigh of relief at Warner Bros will lead to them convincing themselves that everything is okay in The Zach Snyder Visionary Universe. No one wants a white-knuckle experience every time they release a DC movie, but losing money would be a lot worse than being told your movie sucks… at least at the career level.
Kubo & The Two Strings is a little soft in the August Laika/Focus slot. I’m surprised that it is underperforming Boxtrolls, but I’m not sure that the campaign connected as well as the movie itself. ParaNorman was, it seemed, an easier sell than either. Really, my impulse is that Boxtrolls‘ success is the surprise, given it was very Brit and odd-looking and with an unclear story, despite some great, great stuff, especially Ben Kingsley’s voice performance. But I guess it came from a hit book… not really knowledgeable about the material. Anyway, given the Asian themes, it is easy to imagine Kubo breaking out overseas and making the final gross one of Laika’s largest.
Sausage Party will get close to $100m domestic. Not much international yet, though I can imagine the dubbed version as a worldwide breakout, where there is more familiarity with R-rated animation. A success for sure. Should not be undervalued in the media, which tends to discount Rogen & Goldberg because they do comedy and (cough, cough) stoner comedy. They can even afford to take $10 million off the top to settle the claims of animator abuse in Vancouver.
Mechanic: Resurrection is a crap opening for the sequel.
Jason Bourne has a shot at $400m worldwide, but not getting close to the last Damon/Greengrass entry. The film is suffering from not being enough of a breakaway from the original three films, even though it seems to set up some big changes next time out. Word of mouth is positive, but not excited. And this wasn’t a world-beating franchise at the box office to begin with.
Bad Moms will pass $100 million next weekend, which is significant, even if competitors feels STX bought the gross with a huge ad spend. But if some of those competitors could get a $100m movie on the books, they’d buy it too.
Paramount has gotten every ounce of juice out of Florence Foster Jenkins and looks like they will get it to $25 million domestic.
Hell Or High Water is a solid limited success for CBS’ film arm distributed by Lionsgate. It’s the #3 domestic summer grosser amongst films that have been on fewer than 1,000 screens. (Love & Friendship is #1 with $13m.)
Cafe Society (#2 on that list) is landing dead in the middle of the grosses of Woody Allen’s last 20 films, in the $10 million domestic club with Scoop, Magic In the Moonlight and Deconstructing Harry.
Weinstein can’t be thrilled that Hands of Stone did less per screen than Hell. D.O.A. Couldn’t have done worse if they had widely screened it for critics. (I did go to a screening… which I found out was cancelled when I arrived.)
Southside With You had a nice opening. Curious to see if it can scale.
There was one $10k-per-sceeen film this weekend of any stripe… Sony Classics’ The Hollars, on four.
The Howard’s End re-issue in 4K did an estimated $8650 per on three. (I’d love to watch this film again… and might this weekend. Great film to watch multiple times.)
Great worldwide hold for SUICIDE SQUAD. CAPTAIN AMERICA 2’s worldwide gross is in play, along with the argument that they were a Chinese release away from surpassing GUARDIANS. This will now almost certainly be the most profitable DCU film if the production cost was really that much lower than BvS. I can’t imagine their pre-DEADPOOL expectations were any higher, financially at least.
Suicide Squad cost a lot more than the $175 million they’re claiming. That might have been the budget before they reshot a third of the film. WB hasn’t announced Suicide Squad 2 yet, something a little strange if the first film was actually profitable.
“Great worldwide hold for SUICIDE SQUAD. CAPTAIN AMERICA 2’s worldwide gross is in play, along with the argument that they were a Chinese release away from surpassing GUARDIANS.”
Suicide Squad is going to end up more profitable than ‘Guardians for sure – EVERY film has re-shoots, even Guardians had them and it went overbudget to about $232 million – even taking re-shoots into account, Suicide Squad’s budget likely didn’t creep over $200 million.
You know with all of the hype about DC/Warners as to how to measure the success of Suicide Squad, can’t we give Will Smith SOME credit for this film being so strong overseas? He has been a consistent worldwide draw for some time: both Focus and After Earth at least DOUBLED their domestic grosses overseas….and I still don’t get the hate for last year’s Focus, that was a solid entertainment in which he delivered a nice performance. But I’m always a sucker for a good con story.
@Warren, let’s say it cost $225 million though. It’ll still end up about on par with CAP 2, given that you should subtract $58 million from Chinese inflation, knocking it down to about $660 million (plus SS has a slightly higher domestic/itl ratio even without doing that).
I don’t believe it’ll end up as green as GUARDIANS overall though, given you don’t see as many Suicide Squad Happy Meal/kiddie tie-ins and the fact it’ll likely take a home market hit due to quality and the generally declining market there. Agree Smith deserves some credit here…it just passed HANCOCK to become his #2 worldwide.
I still don’t get the dismissal of the biggest original horror opening since 2013. Also DP you are undershooting SS: One could easily see it doing $50 million in Japan and hitting $750.
Suicide Squad had vastly more reshoots than Guardians and likely ended up at a budget of at least $250 million. No way in hell it ends up more profitable than Guardians and the proof will be the complete lack of a Suicide Squad 2.
No “SS 2”?
Hell, they even made a second “Mechanic.” (And yes, I know it’s the difference between a caviar and champagne budget and a pretzels and beer one.)
Everything gets a sequel (or reboot) today. Whether they deserve one or not. That’s why most movies are so damn boring.
On a related note, have WB and DC announced a “Green Lantern” do-over yet? It’s been 5 years since the Ryan Reynolds bomb. If Marvel had been calling the shots, it would’ve already been in theaters.
Speaking of everything gets a sequel (and in the spirit of The Mechanic’s unnecessary sequel), Hard Target 2! Coming soon. Just heard about that one the other day.
For what it’s worth, in an interview Ike Barinholtz called SS by far the biggest movie he’s ever been in, with a budget north of $250 million.
SB- As in the batshit-crazy-but-I-dug-it 1993 John Woo/JCVD movie?
That’s just…odd.
Haven’t there already been a dozen direct-to-DVD “HT” sequels?
Or was there a new “Hard Target” I’m unaware of because it, too, went straight to home video?
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt5241578/?ref_=nv_sr_1
That’s the one. I think this is the first Hard Target sequel. Look at the director’s (Roel Reine) amazing list of sequels: The Marine 2, Death Race 2, 12 Rounds 2, The Scorpion King 3, The Man With the Iron Fists 2, and The Condemned 2. What a filmography!
Two SS thoughts:
1. Has this movie penetrated the general poip consciousness in any way? Is there anything analogous to Baby Groot or the SNL sketch about how Marvel could take anything and make iut a hit? This is not snark, I am just curious as to whether anyone has noticed anything.
2. Since about midway through its second week of release, SS has earned less than GOTG did on the equivalent day of release. So the gap of $40some million in SS’s favor from opening weekend has closed to just over $30 million. I will be curious to see how close that gap gets by the time SS finishes its run.
Hey Dave, I’m curious as to your comment about some people claiming that STX “bought” their opening for Bad Moms. Do you feel that that has been a feasible thing to do in the last 10 years, let alone in 2016.
I would posit that you can buy awareness by spending a lot on P&A but you can’t force people to be interested. (The box office is littered with bombs that had huge marketing spends). And how does that explain the legs of Bad Moms? I’m surprised you would bring up that as a competitor’s rationalization for the success of Bad Moms.
How about: an underserved audience, a premise that interests that audience, a rock solid confident marketing campaign that communicates effectively what the premise is, and finally a movie that (apparently, I haven’t seen it) delivers on that promise. Production, marketing, and distribution all doing their job and doing it well. That’s always been the formula for success.
SS box office run proves one thing…nobody knows shit. Four weeks out and a movie that received both a critical drubbing and a just ok thumbs up from general audiences is now showing slightly better legs than the much more well liked Civil War. Granted a bigger opening weekends generally lead to weaker legs but no one thought this actually possible after the first weekend. Prognosticators were proclaiming that it would not make double its opening weekend and now it will pass $300m.
Something interesting abut this Marvel/DC box office comparisons. Marvels first 3 movies made $318, $134 and $312 respectively. DC’s movies have made $291, $336 and $300? thus far, so better numbers right?
Marvel is 13 movies in with an average of $307m, DC thus far is $304 and after Suicie Squad finishes its run, their average will be higher. Just thought I’d offer some perspective. Marvel is winning, no doubt about it. But DC isn’t doing as bad as it is made out to be.
“Has this movie penetrated the general poip consciousness in any way? Is there anything analogous to Baby Groot or the SNL sketch about how Marvel could take anything and make iut a hit? This is not snark, I am just curious as to whether anyone has noticed anything.”
Always hard to tell this soon after the movie came out….we’ll see for sure this Halloween how many kids are wearing Harley Quinn or Deadshot costumes. But there’s this: the soundtrack is the top selling albumn two weeks in a row and you can’t avoid that damn “Heathens” song by twenty one pilots…which I find extremely catchy but can’t quite figure out why.
And yeah Guardians was not the profit machine that folks have been hyping it up to be – it cost over $230 million, pretty much on par with the first Avengers film and if Fox BARELY made profit with X-Men:Days of Future Past which came out the same summer and pretty similar numbers, then I don’t see how this was much different.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/csylt/2015/01/27/disney-reveals-guardians-of-the-galaxy-was-over-budget-at-232-million/#b84ac222f368
“SS box office run proves one thing…nobody knows shit. Four weeks out and a movie that received both a critical drubbing and a just ok thumbs up from general audiences is now showing slightly better legs than the much more well liked Civil War. Granted a bigger opening weekends generally lead to weaker legs but no one thought this actually possible after the first weekend. Prognosticators were proclaiming that it would not make double its opening weekend and now it will pass $300m.”
I think one faulty assumption all of the trades and box office prognosticators were making was that Suicide Squad’s run would play out EXACTLY like Batman V Superman – two very different movies that play differently with audiences as I even saw on opening weekend with each of them. For all of its flows, ‘Squad is a pretty fun movie with some fun action scenes and several entertaining performances….and for all of the talk of how much Warner Bros. meddled in the cut of the movie, I do not believe for a second that had they not done so, that the film would have actually played better. No way no how……seeing extended scenes of The Joker physically and mentally abusing Harley Quinn (even though it’s true to the source material) would have turned off audiences even more – admirable that Ayer was going for that but I don’t think it was ever that realistic to expect that it would play well with general audiences.
And I still haven’t seen the extended cut of Batman V Superman and I have read a lot of discussion of how it’s a much fuller movie but no way THAT film would have played better with general audiences either…..three plus hours and all you’re getting extra are more scenes of Clark Kent reporting?? The movie would have made less without a doubt.
I think a lot of us really underestimate the studios oftentimes.
Good points Bulldog, though it’s also worth noting the first three DCU movies cost between $150-200 million more combined, and rely on $125 million more in Chinese money. Then there’s the $150 million estimated difference in DVD/Blu-Ray sales (Iron Man alone made $88 million more just domestically than Man of Steel) which admittedly is as much to do with living in a different era as quality. All of these things affect the bottom line, but yeah it’s closer than people make it out to be even with that thrown in, and even if you want to put in THOR and count HULK as a mulligan.
Iron Man made $585m Worldwide on a $150m budget
The Incredible Hulk made $263m WW on a $150m budget
Iron Man 2 made $623m WW on a $200m budget
Man of Steel made $668m WW on a $225m budget
Batman V Superman made $873m WW on a $250m budget
Suicide Squad will end up making about $700m WW on a $180m budget
I’m not seeing a huge disparity of success on behalf of the MCU from that sample size so far…what am I missing? 🙂
And yes you could EASILY make a case that BVS was a disappointment against expectations and that Warners left money on the table with that one….but I can remember pretty clearly back in 2010 that most were predicting a Dark Knight-sized uptick for Iron Man 2 that never came to fruition and that film was viewed as a disappointment in most circles.
Yeah, I agree with you, Lane Myers. I’d love to know who the competitors are that are claiming STX “bought” the $100M gross.
I don’t fully trust the iSpot.tv metrics, but here’s an article from Variety saying that they estimated the BM TV spend at a little over $15M as of August 1, the Monday after its release:
http://variety.com/2016/more/news/war-dogs-tops-tv-ad-spending-1201827530/
That’s barely more than Nerve and War Dogs (which was weeks away from release still), and less than half of Bourne.
“…three plus hours and all you’re getting extra are more scenes of Clark Kent reporting??”
There’s alot more to the Ultimate BvS than just Clark Kent.
I’d strongly recommend watching it as it delivers a much better film, just like the Extended Watchman did.
I agree in totality, Pete.
Suicide Squad just chugging along, must make some exec at Warners happy. Here’s hoping, that they avoid the shit storm with Wonder Woman. If not? This narrative will continue on. What they need to happen, is Justice League to make a shit ton of money. Once that happens, they can just make their movies, and flip off the… ahem… hmm… haters.
What you keep ignoring, Geoff, is this one thing. Marvel, is and will continue to be the REIGNING, THE DEFENDING, AND CURRENT LARGEST FRANCHISE OF ALL-TIME! IT’S NOT STAR WARS! IT’S NOT HARRY POTTER! IT’S NOT DOUBLE OO! IT’S A MAN IN AN IRON SUIT, A KID FROM BROOKLYN, AND SCOTT LANG! Until DC, somehow, makes movies that make as much as Marvel films all the damn time, then they will be stuck behind the eight ball.
“What you keep ignoring, Geoff, is this one thing. Marvel, is and will continue to be the REIGNING, THE DEFENDING, AND CURRENT LARGEST FRANCHISE OF ALL-TIME! IT’S NOT STAR WARS! IT’S NOT HARRY POTTER! IT’S NOT DOUBLE OO! IT’S A MAN IN AN IRON SUIT, A KID FROM BROOKLYN, AND SCOTT LANG! Until DC, somehow, makes movies that make as much as Marvel films all the damn time, then they will be stuck behind the eight ball.”
The problem is nobody really gives a shit about the “kid from Brooklyn” unless he’s in a movie paired up with several others and let’s see if the “man in an iron suit” still draws crowds when the original actor who portrayed him turns 60 and they have to re-cast him. Just being a bit hyperbolic aren’t you proclaiming this the largest franchise “of all time” aren’t you? James Bond, Star Wars, and even Batman are film IP’s that TRANSCEND their casts and maintain fan loyalty over SEVERAL DECADES of ups and downs and everything in between.
Look I’ll give you this: Marvel is NOT going to flop anytime soon….as I thought they might with ‘Guardians two years ago. That audience is ENTRENCHED for now: GUARANTEED $500 million worldwide no matter what they put out at this point, including a guaranteed $170 million in the U.S. and a guaranteed $100 million in China – most other franchises would KILL for that kind of dependability. But how about an AMAZING MOVIE that’s not loaded with Easter eggs, fan service, regular quips to keep things from getting too serious, and homogenized to a certain level to ensure that it can sell plush toys at the Disney Store?
I demand GREATNESS from every franchise and I’ve gotten it from the others: Empire Strikes Back, The Dark Knight, Skyfall….sorry JS but we both know that NOBODY is going to be talking about ‘Civil War or that “amazing airport scene” five years from now….the closest the MCU has come is Iron Man and The Avengers, when they kept is simple and relatively self-contained.
Until Feige and company put aside the pre-ordained story beats laid out for the next five years and reach for the stars, they are going to continue to see increased boredom and audience erosion – there’s no Howard the Duck on the horizon but continue putting out three unremarkable ‘Ultrons or Ant-Mans every year and they will just end up becoming the The Simpsons of cinema: once great show that just kept running and running and running for several decades because it still made profit, but nobody really gives a shit about it anymore.
I would not proclaim that Warners/DC has even come close to figuring out the magic formula to take the crown from Marvel at this point but they seem more willing to take risks and that’s my preference for the long run.
@Geoff, here’s Iron Man vs Man Of Steel adjusted for Chinese numbers with domestic DVD/Blu Ray sales thrown in:
MoS: $745 on $225
IM: $776 on $140
One would expect the disparity to get even wider throwing in international home market sales. Still, it’s closer than people think. I’m not sure it’s productive to compare BvS to the Hulk, but it does indeed destroy it lol.
Seems like a fair comparison EtGuild2 – the first Iron Man was certainly more of an unqualified success than Man of Steel, I know I liked the former a lot better.
The Incredible Hulk situation was a pretty weird one from what I remember – it felt like it was under-marketed but I remember Universal heavily promoting the Tony Stark cameo in the TV spots just before its release. And from what I remember about that movie, it really didn’t have much of an ending….the Tony Stark appearance WAS the ending. Pretty strange considering that Iron Man was in no way a guaranteed hit at the time…I’m guessing they just re-edited it after Iron Man opened.
Overall it just felt like a very poorly timed release as it was less than a month after Iron Man and just a couple of weeks before a literal avalanche of comic book/superhero films (Wanted, Hancock, Hellboy II, The Dark Knight) – yeah what the hell was Universal thinking that summer?? They opened up EACH of their three own comic book properties – Hulk, Wanted, and Hellboy II – ALL within rapid succession of each other only to see them all get demolished by The Dark Knight right after they all came out…..yeah I would be inclined to give Marvel a mulligan on that one for sure. 😉
DP, Secret Life of Pets is missing $100 million from its total.
@EtGuild2 says:
“Also DP you are undershooting SS: One could easily see it doing $50 million in Japan and hitting $750.”
It might make another $50 million but not in Japan. Sympathetic heroes are required to chase big box office there (Spider-man is the most popular). Also, Japan is just not that crazy for superhero films in general. Even Avengers only did $45 million.
Yeah Japan probably won’t be that much of a factor – ‘Civil War only did $25 million there and two years ago, ‘Guardians only did about $10 million. MAYBE Will Smith could pull in some extra shekels there….apparently Men In Black III did almost $40 million there.
Oh my lord. What’s that? DREW McWEENY TIME!
Geoff, “The problem is nobody really gives a shit about the ‘kid from Brooklyn’ unless he’s in a movie paired up with several others and let’s see if the “man in an iron suit” still draws crowds when the original actor who portrayed him turns 60 and they have to re-cast him.”
Geoff. Geoff. Geoff. Do you indeed live under a fucking rock? Did you miss the statue? Did you miss the whole Hydra nonsense? A lot of people love the kid from Brooklyn. You totally missing out on this, is your bubble, and not indicative of the world. Also, remember that chart of how Cap films keep growing? Yeah. It’s not Tony. It’s Steve.
“Just being a bit hyperbolic aren’t you proclaiming this the largest franchise “of all time” aren’t you? James Bond, Star Wars, and even Batman are film IP’s that TRANSCEND their casts and maintain fan loyalty over SEVERAL DECADES of ups and downs and everything in between.”
It is by numbers. Also, again, we are very close to ten years of these films, and have had more of them in that time, than almost any other IP. Also, Batman isn’t worth shit compared to Iron Man, and that’s the world you live in now.
“Look I’ll give you this: Marvel is NOT going to flop anytime soon….as I thought they might with ‘Guardians two years ago. That audience is ENTRENCHED for now: GUARANTEED $500 million worldwide no matter what they put out at this point, including a guaranteed $170 million in the U.S. and a guaranteed $100 million in China – most other franchises would KILL for that kind of dependability. But how about an AMAZING MOVIE that’s not loaded with Easter eggs, fan service, regular quips to keep things from getting too serious, and homogenized to a certain level to ensure that it can sell plush toys at the Disney Store?”
Again, if you want to be overly cynical about this shit, then go right ahead. They have made some great films. If they aren’t your cup of tea, then go enjoy some X-men films. How about some terrible horror films? It’s a free world, baby.
“I demand GREATNESS from every franchise and I’ve gotten it from the others: Empire Strikes Back, The Dark Knight, Skyfall….”
Fuck Empire. I love it, but it is some uneven fucking shit. Fuck The Dark Knight. It is a great movie, but Ben Affleck was more Batman in two minutes on screen, then Bale ever was. Sure. This has to do with Nolan not being as talented as his brother, but so be it :D! Also, fuck Skyfall. It’s not the end all be all of Bond. I dig Spectre. Why? It gave me the feels, that Sir Roger used to do. Again, you see greatness, and I see meddling, but that’s how things work.
“sorry JS but we both know that NOBODY is going to be talking about ‘Civil War or that “amazing airport scene” five years from now….the closest the MCU has come is Iron Man and The Avengers, when they kept is simple and relatively self-contained.”
Again, this is you… thinking your worldview is the end all be all of things. So far, that would be mine, but I don’t care about five years from now? WHY? I am going to have phase four, and whatever that is giving me. If you think these films will not be fondly remembered, well, guess what? TDK happened eight years ago, and no one seems to give a shit about it. I wonder why?
“Until Feige and company put aside the pre-ordained story beats laid out for the next five years and reach for the stars, they are going to continue to see increased boredom and audience erosion – there’s no Howard the Duck on the horizon but continue putting out three unremarkable ‘Ultrons or Ant-Mans every year and they will just end up becoming the The Simpsons of cinema: once great show that just kept running and running and running for several decades because it still made profit, but nobody really gives a shit about it anymore.”
You know what, Geoff? The Simpsons is fucking awesome. If you don’t give a shit about it. You are missing out on some great stuff. The movie took everything up a notch in that world, and they have even made Homer a… dare I type it… great dad. If Marvel films are as good in 2038, as they were in 2008, then I will consider myself fucking lucky to have seen them all. Also, you seem to miss, that the MCU is made in terms of BINGE WATCHING, then franchises past. Do you think kids in the future will watch just one film on Netflix, or do you think they will spend the afternoon watching all them? Hmmm…..
That aside, again, keep on thinking you are going to win this one. You thought, that Guardians would end the MCU, and it just blew shit wide open. You insult Ant-Man, as if it’s shit. When it’s a clever and fun fucking movie, that is as solid as caper films get. Ultron is uneven, but Joss is gone now.
“I would not proclaim that Warners/DC has even come close to figuring out the magic formula to take the crown from Marvel at this point but they seem more willing to take risks and that’s my preference for the long run.”
Risk. Grim dark bullshit. Yadda Yadda Yadda. You know what you seem to miss about Marvel? They feel like Marvel comics. If you don’t get that feel, then I am sorry. DC movies, do capture the uneven as tone of the DC comic world, but some of us dig Marvel. Some of us, wanted this as children, and now they have it as an adult. If these films aren’t lighting your ass on fire, then go watch something else. I am sure you can find that GREATNESS somewhere (Wes Anderson, even though the GBH had a movie destroying ending).
Risk? Great way to shit on thought out storytelling and creativity, for some out of touch BULLSHIT!
@Steve, MALEFICENT did $63 million in Japan, and trails only STAR WARS and JW among live-action Hollywood movies there in the last 5 years, way ahead of OZ, TJB, etc. Yeah $50 million is probably overselling given their general superhero disdain and lack of religious (aka Disney princess) themes. You never know though…playing up the Enchantress/Harley Quinn angle might strike gold, I wouldn’t be surprised in the least. Never underestimate the Japanese appetite for fetishized outfits and evil sorcerresses.
If I have a weak grasp of Japan, btw, I have ZERO grasp of China. Why does ZOOTOPIA make $232 million, while DORY and PETS took home $38 and $60, respectively? Is anthropomorphism really exciting enough to quadruple big Hollywood grosses there? Strange.
That story on the main page discussing the success of horror got me thinking about box office and profits. The writer raves about the financial success of The Witch, noting it cost $3 million and grossed $40 million. Doing the math he claims the profit is $37 million. That’s not how it works though right? It got a wide release so didn’t P&A cost $15 or $20 million? Did it really make the studio that much money?
@Stella’s Boy: I can’t find the article you’re referring to, but it sounds like the writer also failed to take into account the fact that the studio only collects about half of the box office gross, with the rest being kept by the theaters. (And that’s domestically; I don’t know what the studio gets from the foreign gross.)
THE WITCH was acquisitional, as are nearly all of A24’s movies (though that may be changing), and it was with DirecTV, so who the hell knows. It’s not wise to ever hazard guesses on indie distribution deals.
Article: http://qz.com/770020/one-movie-genre-is-quietly-thriving-outside-the-mainstream-hollywood-system/
But Ethan A24 paid for the P&A campaign right? And for a wide release that is probably around $15 or $20 million? Plus like Joshua said they split grosses with the theaters. So there’s no way the profit is $37 million? I love The Witch and A24. Not trying to slam them. Just wondering about the math here.
Yeah, definitely. It’s nowhere close to that. Maybe 10 million after home market? If it was $37 million, A24 would have presumably announced a shift into more production and pre-deals (which they’re barely starting to do) at this point between ROOM, WITCH, AMY and EX MACHINA. Unless I’m mistaken, and I really could be, MOONLIGHT is its first production effort.
MOONLIGHT is A24’s first production.
They’re doing a lot of pre-fest deals now (Mike Mills’ “20th Century Woman,” “How to Talk to Girls at Parties,” “Trespass Against Us” and Ben Wheatley’s next effort). It makes me nervous…it’s the result of how well they’ve done, but they’re practically irreplaceable now with most dependent divisions dead. Hope these movies pan out! In Katz, Fenkel & Hodges I Trust.
Wow JS, so much to unpack there and yes, I’ll admit I was wrong about ‘Guardians but let’s start with this one:
“It is by numbers. Also, again, we are very close to ten years of these films, and have had more of them in that time, than almost any other IP. Also, Batman isn’t worth shit compared to Iron Man, and that’s the world you live in now.”
Dude you KNOW this is complete horseshit! Ok when Iron Man becomes a big enough IP to merit….the highest selling video game series in recent years (the Arkham series), a highly produced network show running three years based on his UNIVERSE barely but barely including him as a character (Gotham), have a documentary focusing on how a whole city re-created his story as a “Make A Wish” gesture to a dying child (Batkid Begins), and have a parody of his character be the launching point for one the highest viewed YouTube channels (How It Should Have Ended) on right now……THEN we can start comparing Iron Man to Batman as an IP! And that’s not even including any of the recent films either….or that even shitty animation like The Killing Joke made money with a special release lately….come on man, because he’s BATMAN! 🙂
The only character within the Marvel Universe that even comes close as an IP is Spider-Man….we’ll see how that pull off his THIRD re-boot in the past 15 years next summer.
“Risk. Grim dark bullshit. Yadda Yadda Yadda. You know what you seem to miss about Marvel? They feel like Marvel comics. If you don’t get that feel, then I am sorry. DC movies, do capture the uneven as tone of the DC comic world, but some of us dig Marvel. Some of us, wanted this as children, and now they have it as an adult. If these films aren’t lighting your ass on fire, then go watch something else. I am sure you can find that GREATNESS somewhere (Wes Anderson, even though the GBH had a movie destroying ending).”
No the risk isn’t being dark and grim sorry, been there done that! The risk is hiring a guy like David Ayer to make a film focused on VILLAINS. The risk is putting out a big budget film focused on a FEMALE superhero (Wonder Woman) as your fourth release while Feige and company dither around for years on whether giving Black Widow second billing is enough for them. And the risk is hiring James Wan to make a water-based adventure film featuring AQUAMAN….a character that has been a laughingstock for the past several decades. Those are risks that I am hopeful might pay off.
“Fuck Empire. I love it, but it is some uneven fucking shit. Fuck The Dark Knight. It is a great movie, but Ben Affleck was more Batman in two minutes on screen, then Bale ever was. Sure. This has to do with Nolan not being as talented as his brother, but so be it :D! Also, fuck Skyfall. It’s not the end all be all of Bond. I dig Spectre. Why? It gave me the feels, that Sir Roger used to do. Again, you see greatness, and I see meddling, but that’s how things work”
Ok now you’re just trolling – no self-respecting James Bond fan like myself would EVER put SPECTRE above Skyfall….and they had it in their hands! They had the rights back after DECADES of having to deal with McClory’s lawyers – and the best they could do was a shitty extended cameo by Christoph Waltz with some awkward shoehorning of the previous three movies’ villains into SPECTRE?!?
You can shit on ‘Empire but honestly if THAT film is too uneven for you, then I don’t know how you can bring yourself to enjoy a film like The Force Awakens which has the typical JJ approach (joke-action beat-scene change-joke-action beat-scene change) that never allows a film to even come close to breathing or being “even.”
“Geoff. Geoff. Geoff. Do you indeed live under a fucking rock? Did you miss the statue? Did you miss the whole Hydra nonsense? A lot of people love the kid from Brooklyn. You totally missing out on this, is your bubble, and not indicative of the world. Also, remember that chart of how Cap films keep growing? Yeah. It’s not Tony. It’s Steve.”
Yeah sorry if folks honestly gave a shit about “Steve Rogers” as a character, then the folks behind those movies wouldn’t have stuffed as many other Avengers-related characters into the last two films to prop them up. The most prominent thing to sell ‘Winter Soldier in the outdoor campaign was Scarlet Johannsen’s ass and the stunt-casting of Robert Redford….and this has already been discussed ad nauseum, but ‘Civil War was pretty much Avengers 2.75 featuring the reintroduction of Spider-Man. The only true stand-alone Captain America film was ‘The First Avenger which I really enjoyed until they fucked up that one too by turning the 3rd act into a trailer for the first Avengers film.
Dude when Marvel actually announces and RELEASES a true Captain America/Steve Rogers stand-alone film as part of their slate featuring JUST Steve Rogers (I’ll throw in Bucky too), then you can say I’m wrong. 😉
“Again, this is you… thinking your worldview is the end all be all of things. So far, that would be mine, but I don’t care about five years from now? WHY? I am going to have phase four, and whatever that is giving me. If you think these films will not be fondly remembered, well, guess what? TDK happened eight years ago, and no one seems to give a shit about it. I wonder why?”
Yeah wrong again on that one – look I’ll admit that The Dark Knight was basically seven or eight great scenes in search of a great movie, it’s somewhat overrated. But that film is STILL being discussed extensively in comic book and film circles eight years later…..Heath Ledger’s performance, the Hans Zimmer score, imitating the Batman voice, all of the quotable lines (never though the hockey pants one would catch on so much), etc…..hey let’s watch this Halloween and see how many kids are dressed up as Heath Ledger’s Joker vs. Daniel Bruehl’s Zemo if you think I’m wrong. 😉
“You know what, Geoff? The Simpsons is fucking awesome. If you don’t give a shit about it. You are missing out on some great stuff. The movie took everything up a notch in that world, and they have even made Homer a… dare I type it… great dad. If Marvel films are as good in 2038, as they were in 2008, then I will consider myself fucking lucky to have seen them all. Also, you seem to miss, that the MCU is made in terms of BINGE WATCHING, then franchises past. Do you think kids in the future will watch just one film on Netflix, or do you think they will spend the afternoon watching all them? Hmmm…..”
Dude I LOVED The Simpsons back in the day and I’m not disputing its influence or its greatness overall…..but I don’t know ONE person who still watches that show or even cares about the new episodes anymore, but they’ll happily tune into their favorite re-run in syndication. Face it the show wore out its welcome – you CAN have too much of a good thing, which is why it’s already obvious how the MCU is showing diminishing returns.
Let’s do it one at at a time! IT’S MCWEENY TIME, MOTHERFUCKERS!
1) Gotham is garbage, and only on the air because of Netflix. The video games, are like the recent X-Men movies: THE SAME FUCKING THINGS… REPEATED ONE AFTER ANOTHER! They sell, but you think an Iron Man game won’t sell just as well, if they got it right? Really? You also know, that Spidey is the biggest IP, right? You also get, that Batman has been rebooted just as many times, right?
2) Again, you and your bubble, because Aquaman hasn’t been a laughing stock to anyone following the comics, for a long ass fucking time. He is what he is, and people just accept. Also, ENOUGH WITH THIS BULLSHIT ABOUT BLACK WIDOW! Scarlett Johansson, is about as important to the fucking Marvel movies, as Evans and Downey. Why hasn’t she had a movie? Scarlett seems to want to have a life, be a mom, and you know be the third lead in every single Marvel movie she has ever been. Let us also remember, that Ike had a hand in this, and Ike has been moved aside.
3) No, I am just a different type of James Bond fan, that loves Sir Roger more than Connery. I like my Bond, doing it for love, not doing it to kill a woman, or force a lesbian straight. Skyfall just drags fucking on, while Spectre just fucking builds to a climax, that is a proper ending for this James Bond. Sorry for digging it, but I like the tortured soul getting some sort of happiness in the end.
TFA is what it is, and it’s major failing is the MYSTERY BOX bullshit. It’s mimicry, so it’s fine for what it is. Empire, just has too much Han Solo dicking around, and not enough Luke being awesome. Sort of like TFA, which is fine for what it is, but VIII will be better. Why? MORE LUKE FUCKING SKYWALKER!
4) You do live under a rock, because FIRST AVENGER IS A CAPTAIN AMERICA MOVIE! All of them are. Again, the internet fucking broke, because Ike had the comic division shit all over Steve, and make him a fucking life-long Hydra agent. He has a fucking statue now. If you want to keep living in your little DC world, with your holy trinity, that can’t even outgross the lowly STEVE ROGERS, then go right ahead. It’s your bubble, and in no way indicative of the facts.
5) You have kids. Do you think kids their age or older, have watched the Nolan Batman films? Seriously, TDK is an afterthought for it’s own year of release. Why? IRON MAN was released the same year, and started off the biggest, most successful, franchise in cinematic history. It also, led to CINEMATIC UNIVERSES, and DC putting Batman and Superman together, finally, after all these fucking years. We can disagree, but this shit is obvious to anyone who pays attention to pop culture. I love TDK, it’s a great movie, but it’s part of a trilogy. It’s not a part of a universe, and that doesn’t help.
6) Diminishing returns? If Doctor Strange makes 800m, is that a diminished return? If Black Panther makes at least 500 million, is that a diminished return? I can go on and on, but you want badly (for reasons unknown), for Marvel to fail. You know why they won’t fail? Those eight year olds from 2008, who are 16 years old, and grew up with nothing but Marvel films. Think about that for a second, and realize this is what you continue to ignore. This is all these kids know, and it continues to make them happy.
One last thing: Simpsons World on FXX. If you and your friends want to continue to ignore the Simpsons, then go right the fuck ahead. There’s going to be 30 seasons of the show, I have seen damn near every episode, and if I can get this from Marvel til 2038? I’m happy. You? Probably not.
As I read it, the problem with JS is he keeps mistaking his opinions on things as objective truth. He also mixes and matches arguments without following what the other person is saying.
Case in point:
Geoff points out that the Batman IP is way more valuable than JS is crediting by pointing out the multiple streams of revenue and interest it generates. JS’s response is to insist “Gotham” is shit. Now, I agree, Gotham *is* shit. But that wasn’t Geoff’s point and that ain’t the argument.
Where in inserts opinion as fact:
“Scarlett Johansson, is about as important to the fucking Marvel movies, as Evans and Downey. Why hasn’t she had a movie? Scarlett seems to want to have a life, be a mom, and you know be the third lead in every single Marvel movie she has ever been”
Well, let’s discount that you actually know this human being well enough to make that argument (I’m guessing you two aren’t, like, words with friends buddies). Her career doesn’t take you where you want this to go. She’s starred in films as an above title lead (Lucy exists *because* of her popularity as an action hero). Wanna know how we know Marvel doesn’t agree with you that she’s as important as Downey and Evans? Cause, like, they won’t make a Black Widow movie. I don’t know what’s hard about that math for you.
The rest of it is pure JS non-reality-based arguing. Nope, the majority of the movie going public has no idea what Captain America’s real name is or that he’s from Brooklyn. Nope, Cap 3 most certainly isn’t considered a Cap movie, and it certainly wasn’t sold as such. Yes, people love the Marvel franchise but it hasn’t produced any singular iconic films or moments (this one is not objective truth, duh). Villains have all sucked, the acting never rises above meh-good enough, and most if it is shot like a TV episode.
So, yes, the films are financially successful and popular. And will continue for a while. But a more successful IP than Batman or anything else? You got a long ways to go on that one. Long ways.
Purely subjective but nothing Marvel has done has come close to the lasting effect that The Dark Knight has had on comic book films and pop culture in general. It has become the standard bearer, and in a weird way, it’s DC’s biggest success and the cause of it’s greatest failures. Cause because they have been trying to remake The Dark Knight with every movie they make, and that’s their error.
“Purely subjective but nothing Marvel has done has come close to the lasting effect that The Dark Knight has had on comic book films and pop culture in general. It has become the standard bearer, and in a weird way, it’s DC’s biggest success and the cause of it’s greatest failures. Cause because they have been trying to remake The Dark Knight with every movie they make, and that’s their error.”
I kind of agree with that – The Dark Knight has become to DC what ‘Wrath of Khan became to Star Trek as a film franchise: a crutch to fall on creatively when you can’t think of anything else. That said, we’ll see if they genuinely take Batman/Bruce Wayne in a different direction next year with Justice League.
And yeah JS, NOBODY is disputing the success of the MCU nor its influence at all – what Feige pulled off with The Avengers four years ago was truly historic, despite how David dismissed it at the time. And if you read the blog back then, you know I was saying just that. But….
That was also four years ago and while the box office has stayed strong, the so-called “Avengers effect” has kind of worn off at this point….you can ignore numbers all you want but that’s pretty obvious when you see how the grosses declined from Avengers 1 to Avengers 2 to Civil War (Avengers 2.5). Is it catastrophic? Hell no…..Sony would have KILLED for their Ghostbusters reboot to have the numbers that Ant-Man got last year as would have Paramount for its last ‘Ninja Turtles film. Of course it’s all relative.
And yeah I don’t know how it puts me in some kind of “DC bubble” to believe that Batman is a stronger IP than Iron Man. I’m not a gamer in the slightest but I know enough who are who live and die with the latest installment in the “Arkham” series or another “Injustice” game…..mainly based around Batman, those titles sell hundreds of millions of dollars every year, you want to deny that?
And Disney TRIED to release strong video games based on the Marvel heroes and they failed with Infinity remember?? Remember the “Marvel Experience” that was touring the country last summer as well? Another failure. Iron Man/Downey delivers big box office no doubt – FOUR films featuring him have grossed in excess of $1 Billion Worldwide, I’m not living in a bubble nor denying that at all. But Batman as an IP is a PROVEN commodity at this point! The only Marvel character who comes close is Spider-man and the MAIN thing weakening that character as an IP is that he has multiple owners: Universal Studios has the theme park rides, Sony still owns the movies, and yes Disney owns the rest. But because it’s not all under one umbrella, that takes him a bit below Batman as a full-on revenue stream – Warner Bros/DC owns EVERYTHING related to Batman: theme park rides at Six Flags, merchandise, the animated films, and even network shows like Gotham which air on Fox.
“Gotham is garbage, and only on the air because of Netflix.” The show is a guilty pleasure for me but yeah, at BEST it’s mediocre! I actually think it would be a lot better if they just took out the “Gotham Babies” aspect of it and removed young Bruce Wayne, young Selina Kyle, etc….and made it a full-on adult crime drama. But it gets solid ratings, sells advertising, and is now starting its third season…..when we start seeing stand-alone films focusing on The Mandarin or a TV show featuring Pepper Potts, THEN we can maybe put Iron Man up there as an IP compared to Batman. 😉
Oh look. It’s the terrible trio! MCWEENY TIME, MOTHERFUCKERS!
First up, the fan of X-Men films! YOU KNOW! THE SHITTY ONES! MAN!
“As I read it, the problem with JS is he keeps mistaking his opinions on things as objective truth. He also mixes and matches arguments without following what the other person is saying.”
Man. Man. It’s a debating and rhetorical style, that is intended to support my arguments over others. I know, you folks love to diminish, because I used bad words against you seven years ago, but we are grown ass men. If you don’t see how it works, then please do not assume it makes me less than you. I have never assumed that of you, or anyone else here, because that would make me an asshole.
“Case in point:
Geoff points out that the Batman IP is way more valuable than JS is crediting by pointing out the multiple streams of revenue and interest it generates. JS’s response is to insist “Gotham” is shit. Now, I agree, Gotham *is* shit. But that wasn’t Geoff’s point and that ain’t the argument.”
No, his point, was Gotham was part of the unbelievable BATMAN IP, that is the second largest on earth. Again, this stuff is easily available, but please ignore my point.
Where in inserts opinion as fact:
“Scarlett Johansson, is about as important to the fucking Marvel movies, as Evans and Downey. Why hasn’t she had a movie? Scarlett seems to want to have a life, be a mom, and you know be the third lead in every single Marvel movie she has ever been”
Well, let’s discount that you actually know this human being well enough to make that argument (I’m guessing you two aren’t, like, words with friends buddies). Her career doesn’t take you where you want this to go. She’s starred in films as an above title lead (Lucy exists *because* of her popularity as an action hero). Wanna know how we know Marvel doesn’t agree with you that she’s as important as Downey and Evans? Cause, like, they won’t make a Black Widow movie. I don’t know what’s hard about that math for you.
Man, this is where you and Geoff, and your lack of knowledge… hinder the both of you. There are countless articles, that explain why there wasn’t a Black Widow movie. His name is fucking Ike Perlmutter. Read more, before you assume. Scarjo is the third highest paid, has been given Ghost in the Shell because of her pan-pacific appeal, and is the third biggest star. This isn’t hyperbole. It’s just… again… fact.
“The rest of it is pure JS non-reality-based arguing. Nope, the majority of the movie going public has no idea what Captain America’s real name is or that he’s from Brooklyn.”
Again, if you want to live under a rock, then go right ahead. You are under the impression, that X-Men matter. People know Steve Rogers. There is enough anecdotal evidence, if you just GOOGLE, to find out how wrong you are.
“Nope, Cap 3 most certainly isn’t considered a Cap movie, and it certainly wasn’t sold as such. Never rises above meh-good enough, and most if it is shot like a TV episode.”
X-Men: Shit. X2: Decent… but shit. First Class? Good, but shit. I can go on, but you love shitty fucking X-Men films. We are just going to have to agree to disagree, man.
“So, yes, the films are financially successful and popular. And will continue for a while. But a more successful IP than Batman or anything else? You got a long ways to go on that one. Long ways.”
Spider-Man has been the biggest comic book IP, for decades. Again, google wouldn’t hurt.
Bulldog, but where is the linger effects with kids? You and I, Geoff and Man, are fucking older guys. Of course, that movie means something to us, but kids? MAKE THEIRS MARVEL! Again, your anecdotal evidence, is about your world, but it’s not representative of where we actually are. Nolan films, have been all but forgotten. This has to do with them not being part of a larger world, and fucking Rises being MEH. I love those god damn movies, but let’s be real, gentlemen. Iron Man, is the gold standard, and changed the world. Ignore it all you want, but scoreboard don’t lie.
Geoff, we will just agree to disagree, but only one MCWEENY TIME!
“And Disney TRIED to release strong video games based on the Marvel heroes and they failed with Infinity remember?? Remember the “Marvel Experience” that was touring the country last summer as well? Another failure. Iron Man/Downey delivers big box office no doubt – FOUR films featuring him have grossed in excess of $1 Billion Worldwide, I’m not living in a bubble nor denying that at all. But Batman as an IP is a PROVEN commodity at this point! The only Marvel character who comes close is Spider-man and the MAIN thing weakening that character as an IP is that he has multiple owners: Universal Studios has the theme park rides, Sony still owns the movies, and yes Disney owns the rest. But because it’s not all under one umbrella, that takes him a bit below Batman as a full-on revenue stream – Warner Bros/DC owns EVERYTHING related to Batman: theme park rides at Six Flags, merchandise, the animated films, and even network shows like Gotham which air on Fox.”
No, Spider-man is the biggest comic IP on earth. Who has had great video games? SPIDER-MAN! What game had a trailer at E3, that blew people away? SPIDER-MAN! Marvel Studios, has been dealing with the merchandising, for years now. Spider-man, like Supes and Bats, doesn’t go away. However, if we are going by movies, what actors get paid, and who is the cornerstone of the MCU. Scoreboard don’t lie… Iron Man has made a shit ton more in the last decade, then Batman has. It’s just a fact. Iron Man 3 vs any Batman movie, and Iron Man 3 wins. Avengers… Iron Man wins. Overall, Spidey is the king, but you cannot dismiss Iron Man, but I do apologize if I didn’t make the point about Spidey being the king IP.
Oh yeah. WB may treat TDK as the end all be all, but look at the reaction of MoS and BvS. What do people, not us, but people want from these film? BE MORE LIKE MARVEL! Scoreboard don’t lie.
I don’t want to get steam-rolled by a JSP rant. I’m a delicate soul. But I have a few minor things to add:
1)Spectre suuuuuuuucked. I was so disappointed. Glad that JSP liked it and got something from it but I did not.
2)There are some good Marvel video games out there (I’m a “gamer”) but they are also LEGO Games. Lego Marvel Super Heroes and Lego Avengers are good fun for kids and adults. I do wish they would reboot Marvel Ultimate Alliance for the next gen consoles because those were fantastic games.
3) I love Batman. My favorite super hero but I have almost no interest in Gotham. I don’t like the premise. Doesn’t work for me.I agree with Mr. Partisan.
4) X-Men are my 2nd favorite super hero property, and I unapologetically like all the movies, to some degree. Origins is kind of shit but I still watch it.
5) Marvel is leaving a lot of money on the table by not giving Black Widow her own movie. Little girls LOVE her. My 13 y/o daughter loves her. Her friends love BW. Maybe I’m wrong but that movie, if done well, would be big.
If done well it would be a first.
After hearing good things about most of the films and being served the same pap over and over I have just given up hope on Marvel delivering a great film. They can deliver a Jaws 2 but never a Jaws (hey guess what hit netflix?)
“However, if we are going by movies, what actors get paid, and who is the cornerstone of the MCU. Scoreboard don’t lie… Iron Man has made a shit ton more in the last decade, then Batman has. It’s just a fact. Iron Man 3 vs any Batman movie, and Iron Man 3 wins. Avengers… Iron Man wins. Overall, Spidey is the king, but you cannot dismiss Iron Man, but I do apologize if I didn’t make the point about Spidey being the king IP.”
How about which character has made more over the past SEVERAL decades?! That’s Batman my friend….and played by several different actors no less. 😉 The character of Iron Man is tied DIRECTLY to Robert Downey Jr. which is why Marvel is having to shell out at least $50 million each time he appears in each film –
And sorry Spider-man is strong IP but not like Batman…..they TRIED to make a spin-off film from Spidey’s rogues gallery (remember The Sinister Six??) but couldn’t make it happen. Meanwhile Suicide Squad happened and will end up making MORE than either of the last two Spider-Man films.
Right now you have FOUR different actors that are having pretty successful careers playing the same character of Batman/Bruce Wayne at the SAME TIME: Ben Affleck, Will Arnett, Kevin Conroy and David Mazouz (though I still see no point for him to even be on the show)!
“What do people, not us, but people want from these film? BE MORE LIKE MARVEL! Scoreboard don’t lie.”
JSP, you’re starting to sound like a Trump supporter….HIS way or no way! Sorry man but there is more than one way to make money in this genre: Deadpool will end up being the most profitable CBM released this year and there’s no way that kind of film would have come from the Feige/Horn brain-trust. Marvel Studios has their tried-and-true formula but it’s not the only one nor does it have to be nor SHOULD it be.
” Scoreboard don’t lie… Iron Man has made a shit ton more in the last decade, then Batman has. It’s just a fact. Iron Man 3 vs any Batman movie, and Iron Man 3 wins. Avengers… Iron Man wins”
I don’t get it, unless you’re talking worldwide box office. Domestically Iron Man 3 made $409m. TDK & TDKR made $534m & $448m respectively. And even Avengers:Ultron, so Iron Man had all his buddies, fell short of TDK, topping out at $459m.
The average of the last three Iron Man movies, $346m. Batman’s average, $390m.
I’m bored with this. Let’s have a lengthy, vitriolic, possibly drunken debate on which Jason Statham franchise is the worst. Or Von Trier vs Haneke. That one’s always fun.
Let’s talk about The Neon Demon. I’m a big Refn fan. Love Drive and Valhalla Rising. Liked Bronson, Pusher Trilogy. I even liked Only God Forgives to some extent.
But I don’t know what to make of Neon Demon. Watched it last night. I wasn’t bored but I wasn’t as taken with it as I expected to be. The movie tried to be about something deep and rich but I don’t think it’s there. There isn’t more than meets the eye unlike, say, Anti-Christ, which I fucking LOVE. Or the Witch. Those are art-house horrors that rocked me and moved me. TND gave me some neat visuals. Loved the Argento/Suspiria/Giallo lighting and color scheme. I kept waiting for something to happen and when it finally did it just peters out. And the message/theme of the movie, on the surface, isn’t much of a revelation. The modelling industry eats up spits out models. No shit.
Disappointed, but it’s was still worth while.
It was too much, but the big debate I had with my friend was…
The NEON DEMON is _______
A. A formal, self-indulgent exercise, nothing more.
B. A movie about the vacuousness of beauty and vapidity of LA
C. A movie that satirizes movies/cautionary tales about the vacuousness of beauty and the vapidity of LA, and celebrates those pleasures to an extent.
I think it’s a mix of A and C. Refn is clearly indulging himself, which is worrisome for a movie that features
SPOILER
lesbian necrophilia. But he’s also languidly, and perhaps lovingly spitballing everything from ALL ABOUT EVE and DREAMGIRLS to Steven Soderbergh, Michael Bay/Megan Fox and Lindsay Lohan. It’s just too over the top to…digest well. That being said, Elle Fanning and Abbey Kershaw (who played the Favorite Bride in Mad Max) are phenomenal. I’d say the same about Jena Malone, but her role was so confrontationally misogynistic/homophobic that I found it off-putting, even if Refn was trolling.
Southside With You was a very charming movie – highly recommend!
Neon Demon bored me silly, which I didn’t expect. I agree that it’s probably a mix of A and C, but it’s so dull. The score is fantastic and the cinematography is good, but I didn’t like anything else about it. Drive feels like a really long time ago. I wonder if I would even like it if I re-watched it now.
I’ll watch Neon Demon again at some point. I wasn’t bored. And also agree it’s probably a mix of A and C. And yeah, the score was great. It just left me kind of shrugging and I didn’t expect that.
Ethan, both of them are HACKIER THAN SHIT! HACK HACK HACK HACK HACK… HACKY SHIT!