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David Poland

By David Poland

Friday Estimates by Beached Klady

Friay Esitmates 2017-07-22 at 10.00.40 AM

A weirdly reflective Friday at the box office…

The opening for Dunkirk is almost identical to the Wednesday-Thursday-Friday “opening day” of Interstellar. ($19 million)

Valerian and the City of a Thousand Planets opened to almost the same number that The Fifth Element opened to in 1997. ($6.1 million)

And Girls Trip is right around the two-day openings of Baywatch ($10.3m) and Snatched ($11.5m), while blowing away the 3-days of Rough Night and The House on opening day.

What does it mean?

The media will make Dunkirk sound like it beat the world while opening to War For The Planet of the Apes or Cars 3 numbers. Why? Because we like it. And then, in thinkpieces in a few weeks, they will forget that an original opened to over $50 million because it doesn’t fit the “theatrical is dead” mantra.

Interstellar made almost $500 million internationally. The real financial success or failure of Dunkirk will be in that international number, same as every other $150m+ budget film. The artistic success is not related to the commercial success… but when one is emotional, it is hard to separate them.

Valerian? Was always going to be a hard sell domestically. You probably didn’t know that as a director, Besson never had a gross as high as $70 million domestic before Lucy. This one will do, probably, slightly better than The Fifth Element‘s $64 million domestic, but the big leap will come internationally, where it could smash the $200 million international that TFE did, especially if it gets a playdate in China, where it fits right into the favored kind of film… not that violent, not very sexy, big, broad, and fun.

Girls Trip is the #1 comedy of the summer. It is female-driven, although female-driven comedies have been pretty much the only comedies of the summer of 2017, period, exclamation mark. It is based around four black women. Much more rare… and historically, much more likely to have gotten a more location-based release.

This will be the top opening day as stars of a film for everyone in the movie, including Queen Latifah. And it will be read in many ways for months to come. Was it the black audience showing up? Was it a higher percentage of white audience than has been historically expected for a comedy led by black actors? Was it women who don’t really care about race, but do care about the laughs in ads and trailers?

The last Universal comedy that opened this well was Ride Along 2  and the last original comedy that opened this well was Trainwreck, two years ago (which is the film that spurred this summer of female-first comedies). Is Universal a color-blind studio now, with this and Get Out this year?

What is sticking with me is that Disney, the current top dog in the industry, and Universal, the current clear #2, appear to be the major studios that push hardest for diversity in their movies, both on the screen and behind the camera.

While I do believe the international market has serious racial issues that are worse than domestic theatrical, this is the kind of movie that should be pushed hard to break through that. It’s Grown Women Gone Wild and should be marketed as hard, and with similar funding to Magic Mike ($53 million international) and even Sex & The City ($262 million international), although S&TC had the multiple seasons of the show as a big advantage. Scary Movie 5 is the only Malcolm D. Lee movie to do over $4 million internationally. But Ride Along 2 did $33 million overseas. If Girls Trip did over $20 million internationally, it would be an important landmark internationally for distribution of movies starring black actors who are not Denzel or The Rock. And it has a real shot at doing over $100 million domestic.

War for the Planet of the Apes didn’t have a great hold and should be just short of $100 million at the end of the weekend.

Spider-Man is still doing… okay. Hard to say where it will land.

Despicable Me 3, on the other hand, is doing okay here… and should pass $700 million worldwide this weekend.

Wonder Woman should take the domestic summer crown from Guardians of the Galaxy: Vol 2‘s today. But Guardians looks secure as the summer’s worldwide winner.

Baby Driver and The Big Sick are both over the box office hump now. How long can they cruise?

Landline is opening on four to over $10k per screen. Not as well as Obvious Child. But Magnolia is not set up for theatrical first, and A24 is.

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52 Responses to “Friday Estimates by Beached Klady”

  1. Christian says:

    So “Valerian” was already been dubbed a “bomb” before it opened based on its production cost and expected box-office take, but I’m thinking that number looks healthier than I’d expected it to be. Maybe Saturday will drop off, but if not, the weekend seems a little face-saving, if the long-term outlook remains grim.

    I’m not a fan of the film – wanted to be but wasn’t – but would like to see it not be a complete bloodbath. Maybe I have rose-colored glasses on when looking at the opening-day figure?

  2. Sideshow Bill says:

    Bad drop for Apes, eh? Bad opening for Valerian. I’m still gonna see it. Good on Girls Trip though. Summer finally has a hit comedy.

    The dog days are here. Nothing looks like a break-out from now through August, to me at least.

  3. Pete B says:

    Saw Valerian in 2D and can’t wait to see it again in 3D. Really wish it was doing better, but them’s the breaks. I’d gladly sign up for a Valerian 2, 3, and 4 but doubt that will happen unless international saves the day.

  4. Christian says:

    Yeah, Len calls the opening “soft” and the others here see it that way, so like I said: rose-colored glasses.

  5. Sideshow Bill says:

    Non “brand name” sci-fi seems tough to open. Even the ones with history have had it tough here and there. Thus my “bold” prediction that Blade Runner is going to under-perform. I hope I’m wrong on that one.

  6. Movieman says:

    It depresses me to no end disliking (actually kind of hating) “Valerian.”
    I’ve loved many Besson films (“La Femme Nikita,” “The Big Blue,” “The Fifth Element”) and hope to love many more in the future, but this one misses by a country mile.
    I’d called it “Avatar For Dummies” (w/ even worse dialogue) if it didn’t remind me so much of what an ’80s Terry Gilliam movie might have looked like if it had passed through the maw of the 21st century Disney corporate machine. Denatured, flavorless, borderline-incoherent product.
    And while I’ve liked DeHaan in pretty much everything since HBO’s “In Treatment,” he and that godawful British model (how did she even get another acting job after “Paper Towns”?) came across like high schoolers in an epically bad student production. (Maybe Alden Ehrenreich and Margot Robbie could have partially salvaged the movie.)
    Rihanna was the one bright spot. Too bad she’s barely in the damn thing.

  7. Yeah says:

    Funny to hear this described as the “dog days of summer.” Dunkirk and Detroit open this weekend and next! To me it feels like summer movie season is finally getting interesting.

  8. Sideshow Bill says:

    Yeah, okay…uh…Yeah. I will admit the next 6 weeks will be “interesting.” And good films will come. Detroit looks great. But it feels like the big numbers are behind us. I could be wrong. Plus, the numbers don’t tell the whole story anyway. Something will surprise (Annabelle??). But there’s no Suicide Squad on the horizon (which is a good thing probably).

  9. Triple Option says:

    Movieman wrote:
    July 22, 2017 at 11:38 am
    And while I’ve liked DeHaan in pretty much everything since HBO’s “In Treatment,” he and that godawful British model (how did she even get another acting job after “Paper Towns”?) came across like high schoolers in an epically bad student production.”

    Yes! I thought it was just me getting old. I thought he sounded like Keanu and the film was like a galactic version of Bill & Ted’s Excellent Adventure. This would be #3 or #4, when they run out of ideas and need a quick fix to keep the videos coming.

    I thought Girls Trip would do well. I don’t know if the film is all that amazing but Tiffany Haddish killed it. Wonder where she goes from here??

  10. Hoju says:

    Triple Option – ha! I completely agree with your assessment of DeHaan sounding like Keanu Reeves. That’s what I told my friend as we were leaving the theater.

    Outside of the opening dialogue scene between Valerian and Laureline, which I thought was atrocious, I thought the entire thing was fun. Both my friend and I snuck in a bit of alcohol, which couldn’t have hurt, but so many of the elements worked for me. And I’m saying that as someone who doesn’t go out of his way to see Luc Besson’s movies. Also, I thought those Doghan-Daguis were hilarious.

  11. leahnz says:

    dehaan is an odd duck, i can’t figure out if i dig him or not, i vacillate – most recently in ‘a cure for wellness’ – yeah pretty good, then as james dean, oh lordy no. i haven’t seen ‘valerian’ yet now i’m scared

  12. cadavra says:

    I dug VALERIAN. Yeah, Dehaan is pretty much playing Tom Corbett, Space Cadet, but this was always going to be a director’s picture, and on that level it works just fine. Plus for once the 3-D is used creatively.

  13. Bulldog68 says:

    I don’t think GotG2 has the WW crown sewn up yet. I don’t know how much markets DM3 has left, but at $434m, but if it gets to $600m international like the last did, and with an all but guaranteed $50-70m left domestically, it could take the crown.

    Also I just realized that Guardians really didn’t grow much internationally at all, with a mere $32m increase over the debut. And while $860m is nothing to sneeze at, I’m thinking the studio expected more growth based upon how previous Marvel titles, even ones that were not received as well as Guardians experienced significant growth over their respective first instalments.

  14. Dr Wally Rises says:

    ‘even ones that were not received as well as Guardians experienced significant growth over their respective first instalments.’

    Okay, but just to play Devils Advocate here, Thor, Cap, and Iron Man all had post-Avengers bumps for their following standalone films. The Guardians, for now at least, don’t have that luxury and exist in their own strand of the Universe. Granted, Thanos popped up at the end of Ultron, but still. Given the way that Fast and the Furious, Pirates, Despicable Me and Transformers have tailed off this Summer, at least domestically, Guardians has performed more than adequately.

  15. Bulldog68 says:

    Dr Wally, I’m splitting a tiny hair for sure, but it’s the expectations game, and remembering how well GotG was so well received and the excitement it generated, this sequel was suppesdly poised to grow its Audie. Maybe not to the same degree as the others, but it seems by the numbers that the same people showed up for the sequel.

    It’s actually kind of amazing what DC has been able to accomplish in the
    wake of Marvel. It’s well received debuts do under $200m and Dr Strange does above that. Their sequels do north of $200m, while DC consistently hits $300m with ill received product. Marvel’s average gross including the Avengers is $304m, while DC currently stands at $333m, and with Justice League prospects now looking rosier due to a $400m WW, that average can go higher. When the lowest grossing movie in your franchise is $293m, that’s impressive.

  16. Jspartisan says:

    BD, Guardians is well received here, Europe, and Japan. The place with a billion people? Not so much. Seriously, China doesn’t get, or like, scifi. It’s just not their bag. You can bring up Avatar, but that’s a cinematic spectacle. The Chinese love some cinematic spectacle. This is why Star Wars isn’t beating avatar anytime soon… Not enough spectacle.

    Also, the MSCU has five… FIVE… billion dollar grossing movies. The DCCU has none. That’s why they get shit, because box office is international now.

  17. Bulldog68 says:

    Two Avengers movies, Iron Man 3 and Civil War. What’s the 5th billion dollar grosser?

  18. Jspartisan says:

    Yeah. Sorry. Working in the heat will do that to you. The point, while altered, still stands. The MSCU has four, and the current DCCU have zero. Seriously, fuck this Sumner heat bullshit.

  19. Bulldog68 says:

    Sure they have four, but there are 16 movies in their universe, and their first billion dollar grosser was on the sixth attempt. MCU’s worldwide average is $771m and their overseas average is $467m. DCU’s worldwide average is $766m and their overseas is $432m. Not a huge advantage for MCU, considering that Avengers totals are in these averages. Remove those and we are left with averages of $672m worldwide and $402m overseas. It could be argued that DC has not reached its high point yet which will be tested with Justice League in November, whereas MCU may have.

  20. Hcat says:

    Is Green Lantern in that average or is it astriked out?

  21. Bulldog68 says:

    MCU Universe started with the second Hulk, DCU started with Man of Steel.

  22. Pete B says:

    I had to Google “Tom Corbett, Space Cadet”. As with everything, there are episodes on YouTube. I guess I know what I’ll be doing in my spare time.

  23. Jspartisan says:

    What film looks better? Thor or JL? You also seem to miss a large point, BD: could DC open a captain America movie to a billion dollars? Yeah yeah Geoff. Still… It’s in the title and each one grew exponentially. The same goes with Antman. Oh yeah. Spidey doesn’t open in China until next month… So there’s room to grow, which Marvel always does, and their movies open in China. Seriously, it’s 16 films to 5, and guess what? Flashpointing Ben, isn’t really all that inspiring.

  24. Night Owl says:

    In no reality in this world or the next is Civil War a “Captain America” movie. Every trailer sold the appearance of multiple Avengers, in particular Iron Man. Also look at the difference in posters between it and Winter Solider. Look at the size and positioning of the words “Captain America” versus “CIVIL WAR” and then “CAPTAIN AMERICA” versus “winter solider”. I’m not knocking them, it’s brilliant PR but they themselves were under no illusions this was a Steve Rogers vehicle. It’s an Avengers movie. Period. Alone Captain America remains a $700million-ish grosser on his best day. Huge, but still Suicide Squad numbers. From here out? We will see.

    I agree Thor looks better than JL, but we need to account for the general public versus the tuned-in Internet crew. When people keep describing a movie as “freaky” and “weird” I get excited…and worried about its reception among the folks who don’t obsessively follow this stuff.

  25. Pete B says:

    As many on this blog have pointed out, Cap 3 was Avengers 2.5.
    [Edit: including Night Owl who got his post in before me.]

    JS, you didn’t just suggest that Antman is gonna do a billion dollars did you?

    Not sure why people have to have this either/or argument. As long as they put out decent product (which admittedly has been a mixed bag) it’d be great for both Marvel & DC to succeed.

  26. Stella's Boy says:

    “What film looks better? Thor or JL?”

    Sweet Baby Jesus, Thor by a country mile. JL looks dreadful. Ant Man 2 is putting together a great cast. Boyd Crowder!!

  27. Bulldog68 says:

    What film looks better is completely off topic to a conversation that was strictly about box office and the perception that Marvel is making DC it’s bitch when it comes to box office performance.

    With 4 movies in Marvel’s high point was Iron Man 1 @ $318m domestically and Iron Man 2 @ $623m worldwide. Thus far, DC has surpassed $318m three out of four times at bat, and their lowest worldwide gross is $668m, surpassing Marvel’s highest at the same point. Marvel’s fifth release was Captain America The First Avenger with a worldwide total of $370m, the second lowest in the MCU universe.

    It’s only with the first Avengers movie they hit a billion, and even after that Thor 2, Capt America 2, and Dr Strange did between $644-$714m. None making as much as the much maligned Suicide Squad @ $745m. Only Iron Man 3, the star of the MCU universe outperformed DC.

    So basically at the same point in their respective release schedule DC is kicking ass. And now they will achieve something that Marvel never did, a standalone debut above $400m. And all due respect to Ant-Man, but if GotG2 couldn’t get to a billion, I don’t see Ant-Man making a leap from $519m. Heck Spider-Man shows no signs of getting there either.

  28. Stella's Boy says:

    Nice breakdown Bulldog. While Marvel does better with critics and audience ratings, DC is clearly doing at least just as well at the box office. People crave these movies regardless of whether they are DC or Marvel. BvS and Suicide Squad and even Man of Steel don’t have great Cinemascore ratings but as you explain they are holding their own with Marvel at the box office.

  29. Warren says:

    Part of the reason DC has a higher average is because they’ve only made 4 movies and those movies have starred DC’s big three: Superman, Batman & Wonder Woman or been a team movie. Marvel’s average includes obscure characters like Ant-man and Doctor Strange. Not to mention that at the time of its release, Iron Man was a much more obscure character than Wonder Woman, let alone Batman and Superman. What Marvel has been able to do with their second and third and fourth tier characters has been incredible.

  30. Bulldog68 says:

    Agreed Warren, and I’m not denying what Marvel did with their secondary characters is absolutely a success story. But DC has found the same success with Suicide Squad which outperformed Thor and Captain America even after their post Avengers bump. And Marvel with four movies in were Hulk, Ironman 1&2, and Thor, and if you look at just the first four movie average for a direct comparison, Marvel’s average goes down to $236m.

    As for Marvel’s biggest stars, Spider-Man is new to this universe but may get $300m, Thor’s biggest is $206m, and Capt America needed a major assist from maybe 80% of the rest of the Avengers to get $408m, a figure Wonder Woman will get dangerously close to on her own. Outside of Civil War being Avengers 2.5 and in fact set up the next Avengers movie more than the last Avengers movie Capt America 2 capped out at $259m. We won’t even talk about Hulk. So even when you compare Marvel’s biggest stars with DC’s biggest stars, box office wise, DC wins. The perception is so different though, due to critical and audience reception, but wallet wise, DC is currently ahead of the game at the same point.

    JL versus Thor Ragnarok will be very interesting. The trailer for Thor kicks all kind of ass, and a talking Hulk is almost as powerful as Hulk throwing that tank in Ang Lee’s Super Bowl trailer. JL gets new life due to Wonder Woman as audiences have really fell in love with her, first in BvS and then completely committed to her in her solo movie. The chance to see her again this soon will be a plus. I’m actually giving the edge to JL, as it still offers more newness with Aquaman, who no doubt may benefit from some Wonder Woman credibility now.

    Here’s an idea for DC, give Patty Jenkins more control over the next JL.

    Could 2017 be the year that DC is no longer perceived as playing catch up? More ink was devoted to WW beating GotG domestically even though it’s behind internationally, so WW won that battle. She also beat Spider-Man as well. If JL beats Thor that’ll be two for two this year. That’s no longer a one off, it’s now a win streak.

  31. amblinman says:

    Thor 3 looks like garbage. My generation is pretty funny. We all spent the last 20 years shitting all over Schumacher for “what he did” to Batman, and now a swath of us find ourselves with erections because the next awful Thor movie’s trailers make it seem like Flash Gordon 2. So, I guess, kitsch is okay now?

    JL looks like BvS all over again. I can’t even tell where they’re supposed to be fighting. It seems like this abandoned apocalyptic landscape. If so, congrats DC. You can restart your streak of superhero movies in which your superheroes don’t save anyone so much as punch shit over and over again.

    Ready Player One looks better than all this superhero dreck put together.*

    *I caught the leaked Infinity War trailer and admittedly that looks pretty boss.

  32. Stella's Boy says:

    “JL looks like BvS all over again.”

    Hence the costly, extensive re-shoots? It does look terrible.

    I don’t even like the MCU but Thor 3 looks fun to me. Ready Player One trailer did nothing for me. Hard pass.

  33. Warren says:

    Of course JL is going to beat Thor–it would be crazy if it didn’t. I would set the over/unders at about $820 million worldwide for Thor and $1.1 billion worldwide for JL. That’s a bit of an odd winning streak, though, that doesn’t start with an actual win.

  34. Bulldog68 says:

    Kind of odd reaction I had to Ready Play One. It looks like pop culture fun and like Pixels on steroids. It also looks beneath the talents of Steven Spielberg at the same time. Normally known for his originality, this kind of looks like he thinks he needs a hit. His last big hit was Lincoln in 2012, and as far as buzzy innovative memorable pop culture hit, maybe War of World in 2005. Crystal Skull I think was viewed negatively.

    I think it’ll be a big hit though and as much as this Avatar meets the Gamer industry smash up is anticipated, interesting it’s not a summer release. But I guess summer 2018 was already packed.

  35. Ray Pride says:


  36. jspartisan says:

    BD, you’re analysis ignores one thing: PERSPECTIVE! Why does a DCCU exist? Why? They fucking put a Wayne Satellite in Man of Steel, but still didn’t want to do a connected universe. Why does it exist? THE MSCU! THAT’S FUCKING WHY! Also, you are looking at averages, and ignoring how the world has changed. Ignored how Captain America has grown, how that Ant-Man movie made HALF A BILLION DOLLARS, and how Spidey hasn’t opened in China.

    If you want to praise DC, then go right ahead. One out of four is a decent average for a shortstop, but come on. DCCU is STILL not in the MSCU class, but they may get there. They won’t get there, but having TO FLASHPOINT OUT THEIR FUCKING BATMAN. They may get there though, but there’s only so much Wondie can do for a shit JL movie. A billion for worn out shit, is a bit of a stretch.

  37. Bulldog68 says:

    “how that Ant-Man movie made HALF A BILLION DOLLARS”

    That’s good. That Suicide Squad movie, from a shitty universe made THREE QUARTER BILLION DOLLARS. What’s your point?

    And Ironman and Spidey together is making $100m less than the original Spider-Man and won’t do the hated Spider-Man 3 numbers domestically with overseas still in question.

    My defence of the DCU is not a quality issue, it’s a numbers one. Just pointing out that at the same point in their runs DC is ahead at the box office, and with JL coming out around Thanksgiving, if it’s bad, it’ll do $300m like the rest of the DC universe movies, and if it’s mildly decent, it goes beyond that. Think about, if Thor does $300m it’s an improvement. If JL does $300m it’s a disappointment.

  38. Doug R says:

    One reason DC is doing so well is the good will from Nolan’s Batman trilogy. Strictly speaking, it’s not in the universe, but it had story threads that BvS pulled on.

  39. jspartisan says:

    Of course man would love the Ready Player One trailer :D! That trailer is garbage. Absolutely fucking garbage. It has two weeks to make a lot of money, and that nostalgia bullshit isn’t selling outside of the English speaking world. Oh look! It’s that beloved character, from a movie fifteen people saw! Ooooohhhhh!!! Ahhhhhhh!!! (I fucking love Iron Giant, but come on! Also, Thor looks nothing like the fucking Schumacher Batman films, but some people in here don’t love Marvel Studios like I do :P!)

    BD, it featured WILL FUCKING SMITH! I am sorry, but what’s the point of any of this? Marvel Studios, is the gold standard. DC, had ONE MOVIE that stands out, and why does it stand it? IT ISN’T LIKE THE OTHER THREE FUCKING MOVIES, THAT PEOPLE GENERALLY DISLIKE!

    Also, do you know who our president is? Of course, Wonder Woman means more now, than it would have a year ago. There’s a lot in that movie, that this country/world needs. It’s important, and it’s sort of like a Captain America movie in that sense.

    Nevertheless, I enjoy the DC movies, but they have the box office they do… THANKS TO MARVEL STUDIOS HAVING THE REPRODUCTIVE ORGANS TO DO, WHAT WARNERS WAS SCARED TO DO! That’s in caps, because let me reiterate this again. You can bring up box office all you want, but you are still ignoring the DCCU does not exist with the MSCU. Scoreboard doesn’t lie, and Marvel Studios still get people excited… ten years later. Does anyone really want a fucking Aquaman movie? I mean, I do, because Black Manta is awesome, and AQUADLAD, YO!

    People want another Ant-Man movie, but let’s just down play that… in order to ignore that 2008s Iron Man and the SECOND HULK, and Iron Man 2, are so comparable to Superman, the holy Trinity, and a Will Smith/Margot Robie movie. Totally.

  40. Pete B says:

    So people needed 3 Captain America movies while Obama was President?

  41. Bulldog68 says:

    “Nevertheless, I enjoy the DC movies, but they have the box office they do… THANKS TO MARVEL STUDIOS HAVING THE REPRODUCTIVE ORGANS TO DO, WHAT WARNERS WAS SCARED TO DO! That’s in caps, because let me reiterate this again. You can bring up box office all you want, but you are still ignoring the DCCU does not exist with the MSCU” kinda sounds like…..

    “So how did you end up in a meeting with the Russians?”
    “Well it’s actually Obama’s fault. They granted the visa in the first place.”
    Did DC look at what Marvel did and tried to emulate some of it?

    “Does anybody really want an Aquaman movie” kinda sounds like….
    “This Russian investigation is a witch hunt. Nothing to see here.”

    “BD, it featured WILL FUCKING SMITH”
    So did Wild Wild West, and MIB3 topped out at $180m in 2012. Arguably his last “hit”. What’s your point?

  42. leahnz says:

    “here’s an idea for DC, give Patty Jenkins more control over the next JL”

    haha yeah right that’ll happen
    (3-1 odds here in our little betting pool Patty doesn’t even helm the next WW, the ‘announcement’ without her attached – not a good sign, fucking fools)

    JL has Snyder stink all over it, it’s like a skunk you can’t get rid of the smell (tho maybe whedon can hose off some of the stench)

  43. YancySkancy says:

    I’m willing to bet a great many of what I would call “social moviegoers” have absolutely no idea which characters are Marvel and which are DC. They just go to the latest blockbuster superhero movie that’s being marketed to them. I don’t know what percentage of all moviegoers they are, but it’s probably substantial.

    As for Thor 3, it looks like a breath of fresh air for the genre to me, which may be a smart play after the comparatively meh reception for Thor 2. But I do see how it could backfire. The mass audience isn’t known for its affection for quirkiness. It’ll be interesting to see if there’s a big disconnect in the way it’s accepted by critics and audiences.

    The new Justice League trailer seems primarily designed to assure all the new Wonder Woman fans that she’ll be the big attraction. Can’t blame ’em, of course, and it’s probably even true (especially after the reshoots).

  44. jspartisan says:

    Pete B, you do get that Cap just reinforced Obama, right? I mean… you metalheads always jump in the wrong end of the pool on things.

    BD, are you just posting as Geoff now? No, I am sorry, but you don’t get to ignore this key point. DC/Warners, didn’t want to do a cinematic universe. Even after the Avengers was the Avengers… they just wanted to make individual films. If Marvel Studios didn’t fucking succeed. If they didn’t put it all on the line, and DO SOMETHING THIS BLOG HAS CONSTANTLY STATED THEY COULDN’T FUCKING DO! There is no Trinity film. There is no Suicide Squad. There is no Wonder Woman film. Sure. DC started better, because Marvel Studios laid the fucking groundwork.

    Yancy, these are ICONS on DC’s side. People know, the difference, because look at the fucking reviews… FROM PEOPLE!

  45. Stella Boy says:

    This is only anecdotal but I have many family members of different generations who don’t know the difference between dc and marvel. They are casual moviegoers. He’ll I barely know the difference and I go to the movies all the time and follow movie news closely. I think yancy is right and a lot of people just like going to superhero movies.

  46. jspartisan says:

    Yancy, is not supported by anecdotal evidence, and you know market research, that has been created to show the divide in the movies’ quality, and how people refer to them by DC or MARVEL. Also, if you have people that don’t know this, then that’s not supported by various resources that demonstrate, as my wife just said, “DC? The bad one.” It’s out there.

  47. Stella Boy says:

    I’m not talking about quality. There are a lot of casual moviegoers who don’t know the difference between the two. Lots of people only see a dozen or so movies a year. I know people who see one or two movies a year. It doesn’t seem like a stretch to assume that many of those people aren’t experts on dc and marvel.

  48. YancySkancy says:

    Yeah, I didn’t think it was big news that a huge number of moviegoers are just that — moviegoers. They go to the movies but they don’t know or care anything about how the sausage is made. It’s a social event as much as anything. Get a group together and hit the cineplex. I’m not saying they’re all idiots or anything. Just that they view movies as something to do, like hitting a club or eating out. They don’t know directors, writers, studios, IP owners, or even actors in many cases. I wouldn’t be shocked if 30% of people who’ve seen Man of Steel and BvS couldn’t come up with Henry Cavill’s name if you gave them three guesses and spotted them his initials.

  49. jspartisan says:

    I agree it’s not a stretch, but these films are seen by a lot of people. Once you get into that level of people, then you have to be into some level of knowledge. That’s just my opinion, but I love that my wife thinks of DC as the bad one. I don’t even dislike… sans Suicide Squad that just gets me angry now thinking about it.. those movies. Again, this is all weird, because Wonder Woman hasn’t changed the stigma for JL, and the whole MUSTACHE thing just shows the difference between Marvel Studios and Warners.

  50. amblinman says:

    “Of course man would love the Ready Player One trailer :D! That trailer is garbage. Absolutely fucking garbage. It has two weeks to make a lot of money, and that nostalgia bullshit isn’t selling outside of the English speaking world. Oh look! It’s that beloved character, from a movie fifteen people saw! Ooooohhhhh!!! Ahhhhhhh!!! (I fucking love Iron Giant, but come on! Also, Thor looks nothing like the fucking Schumacher Batman films, but some people in here don’t love Marvel Studios like I do :P!)”

    1 – Go fuck yourself! (Said with affection for m’man over here).
    2 – I don’t care how much it makes, I only care that its good. You guys can wank off to box office. Sometimes I find that line of discussion interesting, most times I don’t.
    3 – I didn’t say Thor looked like a Schumacher film. I said it looks like Flash Gordon 2. I was comparing guys our age shitting all over Schumacher for camping up Batman while getting all hot and bothered over Thor and Hulk being reduced to a couple of goofballs.

    Also: Loki sucks. Always has.


  51. Pete B says:

    JS, I was just backtracking your logic. Not sure how that put me in the wrong end of the pool.

    “Also, do you know who our president is? Of course, Wonder Woman means more now, than it would have a year ago. There’s a lot in that movie, that this country/world needs. It’s important, and it’s sort of like a Captain America movie in that sense.”

    president + needs + important + Captain America

    So Captain America is important because the world needs him due to the President.

    It was your post dude.

    Also, adding to Yancy’s post: the wife was watching the JL trailer and asked “where’s Spider-man?” I just shook my head. Over 25 years and I’ve taught her nothing.

  52. jspartisan says:

    Damn, Pete. That’s hilarious. Yeah, that point isn’t divergent enough, but the Cap movies represented a progressive hero in a time, that the democratic president was getting shit on, by people like our national disgrace. Also, you know or have known metal dudes, and a lot of them always go negative before positive. That’s what I thought was happening, so my bad for misconstruing everything :D! IM ONLY A MAN, IN FUCKING SUMMER IN THE SOUTH! OH THE HUMANITY!

    Man, right back’atcha. Yes, it’s about how good it is, but it looks hookie as shit. Here’s hoping it’s good, but that trailer just turned me off. It also has a shit release date, because it gets buzzsawed after only two weeks. Warners, wants this to be a thing, so you would think it would get a better slot.

    Oh yeah… speaking (figuratively) of release dates. Warners is putting out Wonder Woman, a week before Disney release a live action fairytale. If I were Disney. I’d switch that movie with Star Wars, and heartily laugh. We all know, that second weekend in December is just bad news. Sure. Wonder Woman should have enough good will to overcome it, but it’s still a shit slot… for their BEST MOVIE!

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It shows how out of it I was in trying to be in it, acknowledging that I was out of it to myself, and then thinking, “Okay, how do I stop being out of it? Well, I get some legitimate illogical narrative ideas” — some novel, you know?

So I decided on three writers that I might be able to option their material and get some producer, or myself as producer, and then get some writer to do a screenplay on it, and maybe make a movie.

And so the three projects were “Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep,” “Naked Lunch” and a collection of Bukowski. Which, in 1975, forget it — I mean, that was nuts. Hollywood would not touch any of that, but I was looking for something commercial, and I thought that all of these things were coming.

There would be no Blade Runner if there was no Ray Bradbury. I couldn’t find Philip K. Dick. His agent didn’t even know where he was. And so I gave up.

I was walking down the street and I ran into Bradbury — he directed a play that I was going to do as an actor, so we know each other, but he yelled “hi” — and I’d forgot who he was.

So at my girlfriend Barbara Hershey’s urging — I was with her at that moment — she said, “Talk to him! That guy really wants to talk to you,” and I said “No, fuck him,” and keep walking.

But then I did, and then I realized who it was, and I thought, “Wait, he’s in that realm, maybe he knows Philip K. Dick.” I said, “You know a guy named—” “Yeah, sure — you want his phone number?”

My friend paid my rent for a year while I wrote, because it turned out we couldn’t get a writer. My friends kept on me about, well, if you can’t get a writer, then you write.”
~ Hampton Fancher

“That was the most disappointing thing to me in how this thing was played. Is that I’m on the phone with you now, after all that’s been said, and the fundamental distinction between what James is dealing with in these other cases is not actually brought to the fore. The fundamental difference is that James Franco didn’t seek to use his position to have sex with anyone. There’s not a case of that. He wasn’t using his position or status to try to solicit a sexual favor from anyone. If he had — if that were what the accusation involved — the show would not have gone on. We would have folded up shop and we would have not completed the show. Because then it would have been the same as Harvey Weinstein, or Les Moonves, or any of these cases that are fundamental to this new paradigm. Did you not notice that? Why did you not notice that? Is that not something notable to say, journalistically? Because nobody could find the voice to say it. I’m not just being rhetorical. Why is it that you and the other critics, none of you could find the voice to say, “You know, it’s not this, it’s that”? Because — let me go on and speak further to this. If you go back to the L.A. Times piece, that’s what it lacked. That’s what they were not able to deliver. The one example in the five that involved an issue of a sexual act was between James and a woman he was dating, who he was not working with. There was no professional dynamic in any capacity.

~ David Simon