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Ray Pride

By Ray Pride

BYOHeroes: Justice League Spoilers Welcome Here

[“Uncanny philtrum” via Mark Harris/Twitter.]

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25 Responses to “BYOHeroes: Justice League Spoilers Welcome Here”

  1. Cg says:

    I have yet to see a frame of film that makes Cavill’s casting make any sort of sense.

  2. Doug R says:

    Thanks Ray. I actually liked the JL/Superman fight.

  3. Pete B says:

    I know I’m in the minority, but Man of Steel is still my favorite DCEU film, so I’d say there’s plenty of frames that make sense.

  4. MeekayD says:

    Maybe a minority, but we’re right. Man of Steel has only grown in my esteem over the years. More than any specific issue with the new film, I resent WB for deciding they needed to force/rush a multi-superhero franchise instead of giving the ramifications of that first film room to breathe.

  5. Nick Rogers says:

    My favorite part of “Justice League”: A character’s sign that reads “I tried” shown right before Zack Snyder’s directorial credit.

    Don’t let that credit fool you. This is way more Joss Whedon’s movie now than it is Snyder’s — most of it monumentally misconceived, clumsily filmed, cheaply smothered with neon-vomit effects and, worst of all, boring. We’ll likely never see anything resembling Snyder’s original cut unless WB figures out a way to monetize it, but what a mess.

  6. Nick Rogers says:

    And if the grosses go over a cliff after this weekend, I’d say to expect the following beyond what’s already wrapped in principal (e.g., Aquaman). This is not in any particular order:

    Black Adam (contingent on Shazam $$, for The Rock won’t commit to a dud)
    Suicide Squad 2
    Gotham City Sirens (contingent on Suicide Squad 2 $$)
    At least two more Wonder Woman films, likely three
    Maybe one more solo Superman movie with Cavill
    The Flash solo dead (may turn up in a Superman movie)
    Cyborg solo dead (may never be seen again)
    Affleck out
    Batman reboot in three years

  7. JS Partisan says:

    You know why Snyder fucking failed? HIS VERSION OF SUPERMAN IS SHIT! It’s absolute garbage, and Man of Steel is just tiresome fucking libertarian fucking Superman. Sorry, but that’s not Supes. What makes Supes… Supes? Watch and read all of these comic, or shows (It is a fucking cultural offense, that Tyler Hoechlin’s Superman, isn’t on Supergirl every god damn week), and you get the impression that a selfish ass like Snyder, because anyone who loves Ayn Rand is a selfish prick. Could not even come close to fathoming what it means to be a character like Superman. Almost every Cavill scene is changed for a reason, because Zack fucking Snyder still couldn’t grasp… Superman. See you, Zack. Take care, and please make an Atlas Shrugged movie. That’s what Paul Ryan needs.

    It took Joss Whedon’s goofy ass, to finally give the DCEU the Superman it needed from the beginning. Imagine where this franchise would be… if fucking Snyder listened to Nolan, and didn’t make a Superman who kills.

    Luckily, that Superman is dead, and these films finally have the Superman they’ve always needed… the hopeful one. The one that was created, the moment that picture of his shitheel dad, dissolves in that Kryptonian regenerative soup.

    Also, nothing is better than Joss Whedon’s response to, “Do you bleed?” “Yep. Something is definitely bleeding.” I don’t know what movie you saw Nick, but the one I saw wasn’t shit.

  8. leahnz says:

    they make good fake moustaches now (and caville looks like he’d grow hair like a chia pet), why’d they do it bassackwards (that pic above is some kind of fucked up juju, i can’t look away, i hope it’s not that distracting in the movie)

  9. PTA Fluffer says:

    That image looks like a mashup between Cavil and Affleck. Bizarre.

  10. Doug R says:

    Yeah, why couldn’t Paramount scan his face, then let him shave and then add fuzz in post? It would be possible to anchor a CG “extension” to whatever he could grow in a couple of weeks. They could even charge Warner for the cost.

  11. JS Partisan says:

    Paramount are fucking assholes. That’s why. If you read about it. They kinda went nuts about that stache, but again… the LIP REPLACEMENT is a good way to show, how much of the Superman story was replaced, and that seems to be all of it.

  12. Nick says:

    Does WB course correct at this point? The opening numbers are soft af.

  13. Doug R says:

    WW opening was softer.

  14. Nick Rogers says:

    Doug: Unless there’s some surge, Justice League is projected to open $7M off Wonder Woman’s opening. Not a major drop-off from that, but a catastrophic tumble from Batman v Superman and far, FAR from what anyone at Warner Brothers wanted.

  15. JS Partisan says:

    The opening numbers are soft, because Rotten Tomatoes. People thought it was a dud, but it’s the opposite. Now, they have to hope that the word gets out, that it’s a fun movie with a proper Superman. If not, then this movie could fall between 700 to 800m. That’s not course correcting shit.

    You also, have the fucking Aquaman movie coming, then after that? They could change things, but they put themselves in this position. Justice League, is their building block, and they just need to go from there. DAMN TORPEDOES!

  16. Geoff says:

    I do NOT get the absolute vitriol this film has received at all! I sort of got it with Batman V Superman because the sheer grimness and bloatedness of that film almost invited it….but this film is lean and fun, it pretty much responds DIRECTLY to all of the griping from critics about the previous DCU films except Wonder Woman and gives them EXACTLY WHAT THEY HAVE BEEN ASKING FOR! 😉

    And yet still it gets the 40% score on Rotten Tomatoes (while Thor Rangnarok gets 96%???) destroyed from virtually every angle in entertainment media – I mean wow in those Amazon scenes after hearing and/or reading all of this hyperbole about how Whedon or Snyder “sexed up” Diana and the Amazons, I was half-expecting her mother to come out swinging on a stripper’s pole and for the rest of her crew to put down their arrows and engage in pillow fights what the hell?? 😛


    And I’m actually watching these scenes for this egregious misogyny that the likes of Grace Randolph have been savaging this film for and what do I see…..ONE shot, literally ONE shot of a couple of burly Amazons showing mid-riff while they’re lifting a heavy wall to save other Amazons! That’s it. 😉 Yes and a few gratuitous shots of Gal Gadot’s ass in tight pants….but also Henry Cavill spending literally of his screen-time with his shirt off and a gratuitous shot of Mamoa taking HIS shirt off in the water….which was all fine, I’m just not sure where all of the fierce criticism came from suddenly! 😉

    We’re talking about films based on COMIC BOOKS right?? When literally every Marvel film feature Scarlet Johanssen has lingering shots of cleavage and her ass….when Jennifer Lawrence has to lobby to spend LESS time in X-Men movies covered only with blue paint. Gadot’s Diana is a ground-breaking lead character for the genre and nothing she does in Justice League (or that is done to her) changes that. But apparently a lot of die-hard fans of Wonder Woman are sitting the movie out in protest….

    It’s a fun movie and yes it’s flawed but the performances are good, the writing is sharp, the pacing is good, and there’s more genuine emotion in the story than any recent MCU film or Zack Sndyer film I can remember.

    Yes a lot of the effects are shoddy, almost distractingly so….I would say well below most other films in this genre recently aside from Deadpool but of course that film, had around 1/4 the budget that this movie did – I’m guessing some stuff was just rushed towards the end, but it didn’t kill the movie for me. The effects were much better in Thor Ragnarok (except for that hilltop scene) does THAT make up the gap between 40% and 95%?? You got me…

    I also enjoyed Thor Ragnarok for what it was but I am NOT getting what accounts for that gap – most of the positive reviews for it were much along the lines of “Yeah it’s fun…..probably the funniest MCU film ever” and that’s it. It was also at least 20 minutes too long, the Jeff Goldblum character was only there to be…Jeff Goldblum, Hulk was fine but wasn’t really needed and is clearly better in smaller dosages, and yeah….it was fun.

    Justice League was tighter and more engaging, yet with a weaker villain (though Blanchett wasn’t really given much to do in Thor except LOOK really cool!) and weaker effects. NEITHER film had a particularly strong plot and neither film really felt like it had the highest stakes….even though a planet is apparently being threatened in one movie while we actually see a planet being destroyed in the other, only to have a CGI character tell a quip to make it ok. The genre has its issues overall, just not sure why Justice League has to be singled out.

  17. Pete B. says:

    ^ Your last name isn’t Johns is it?
    {I kid, I kid.}

    All the folks outraged by the “sexing up” of the Amazons must have forgotten Snyder did a little film called 300. The costumes are comparable.

    The CGI did look rather cheap though. When The Flash on The CW is more convincing than in a blockbuster movie, there’s a problem.

  18. JS Partisan says:

    The CGI isn’t cheap. It’s rushed. They had to fix an entire movie in a few months, and this movie was still being fixed LAST FUCKING MONTH! You can only do so much, with so little time. Again, I was down with spaceships in the Last Starfighter. The FX are whatever YOU need them to be… that just gets lost on people.

    And to be fair: the Flash on the CW, has four years worth of plates and models, to make their FX look quality. This film, had to do a lot, in like five months, but the movie Flash has some nice running FX. I do love, that some people don’t get he’s moving like a speed skater and not running. He’s like, gliding on the speed force, which is such a cool idea.

    Geoff, don’t you dare insult the wonderfulness that is Hela. DID YOU NOT JUST HEAR HER TALK?

    The thing of it is, like I mentioned in one of these threads: DC is getting held to a different standard than Marvel Studios, and it’s… DC’S FUCKING FAULT! They’ve gone on for years about, “THEY MAKE COMIC BOOKS, BUT WE MAKE GRAPHIC NOVELS! MARVEL JUST AREN’T AS SERIOUS, OR ART FIRST, LIKE WE ARE!”

    When you go on and on about making important fucking comic book films, then it seems the critics expect you to fucking to make SERIOUS FUCKING COMIC BOOK FILMS! This idea, is fucking insane, but it’s the only thing that makes sense. Marvel Studios, have an aesthetic, and have sold it for close to a decade. DC, have tried to sell an aesthetic, based on the Nolan films, and it’s bitten them in the ass.

    This is the only thing that explains Wonder Woman getting all the praise, because it’s a somewhat serious and fun comic book movie. While a more action oriented and fun comic book movie, gets the shiv. It’s insane, Geoff. It really is, but this is the world the DCEU is living in, and it really does suck.

  19. Sideshow Bill says:

    Yes to almost everything Geoff said. I had a lot of fun with JUSTICE LEAGUE. The Whedon bits were easy to spot. Aquaman worked, so i am now interested in that movie. Flash worked. Cyborg…meh.

    Supes return was rousing and fun. Affleck was fine. Gadot is a star. Jeremy Irons is absolutely wasted but I expected that.

    As the resident Snyder defender/apologist, I hope he moves on. I think his body of work is much better than most give him credit for. It’s time to get out out of the franchise biz and do something original (although last time he did that he made Sucker Punch, which I find unwieldy)

    And yea….There was nothing really fucking wrong with the Amazon costumes. The climate has overblown that point. yea, the camera lingered on Gadot’s ass a few times. OK. As a man I’m not gonna really complain but ok, i get that point. Otherwise people are just reaching.

    I’m most impressed with Mamoa. I don’t know how much range he has but he was charming and funny. And all the females I was with swooned over him. Like Geoff said, no think-pieces being written on that.

    I’m ready for some solo Batman stuff. I’ve liked Affleck but he’s so wishy washy on the part I think he just needs to go and let them hit reset, pass the mantle, whatever

  20. Geoffs says:

    JS, I thought Hela looked awesome and sounded awesome – I think Blanchett is a great actress who did with the role what she could – but come on by the time we get to the 90 minute her character is an afterthought, she’s given really nothing interesting to do. Come on let’s be frank: can you quote ONE memorable line she had? 🙂 She didn’t even have one standout moment along the lines of “Puny God!” 🙂

    The comparison is just too stark to ignore – I saw Thor and JL two weeks apart and I was honestly EXPECTING Thor to be the tighter movie. And it wasn’t…and even though I think it’s the best MCU film since Iron Man 3, it perfectly illustrates the main issue with this franchise right now.

    I’ve said it before that Feige has basically masterminded a big budget workplace sitcom featuring superheroes but I’ll give Feige a bit more credit than that – he’s basically aiming for almost every entry to be Ghostbusters: a breezy, irreverent action comedy featuring a constant mix of gags and spectacle. Which is a very cool ambition.

    But here’s the rub: Ghostbusters was lightning in a bottle that was DAMN difficult to duplicate with two attempts by Ivan Reitman (Ghostbusters 2, Evolution) and last year’s reboot. And to try to do TWICE a year is even tougher…and to do it with a “shared universe” where you are REQUIRED to now include at least 15 minutes of call-backs to previous films AND set-ups for future installments is even more difficult! 🙂 And I’m not just picking on Feige here because lord knows that Judd Apatow never learned this fucking lesson: the best comedy is brief, fast, quick. The original Ghostbusters was 1 hour 45 minutes… perfect! Get in, get out, you’re done. Thor Ragnarok was 2 hours and 20 minute – a few minutes of Jeff Goldblum doing his shtick was fine but he ends up getting as much screentime as Hela?? Picture Ghostbusters with am extra perfunctory 10 minutes of William Atherton’s character riffing and you have the issue with Thor Ragnarok.

    And bizarrely even though Justice League was basically made by committee, it does NOT have that issue – Steppenwolf is a weak as shit villain visually and conceptually but the movie knows that so you never stay with him that long. I liked him as Aquaman but I am STILL at a loss as to whether Jason Mamoa is actually a good actor or just a cool dude playing the same person he plays in interviews but the film gave him JUST enough (maybe two standout dialogue scenes) to care about him.

    And the Flash wow – WB put this character at a disadvantage the day they announced his casting three years ago apparently unbeknownst to Grant Gustin and the rest of that CW show crowd. The Flash is literally my oldest daughter’s favorite show and we were catching up on DVR just a few hours before going to see Justice League – we KNOW Barry Allen’s mythology in depth and the fact that with just a few minutes visiting his father in jail, we felt engaged and NOT distracted by watching Miller and Crudup (though he’ll never be John Wesley Shipp) talk is a testament to how well cast and edited this film was. Take notes Russo Brothers seriously – THIS is how SpiderMan’s reintroduction to Marvel SHOULD have been: organic to the story, having some fun with the character, but NOT afraid to show some of the pathos that drives him and NOT presenting him as a pseudo-sidekick to the character (Batman/Iron Man) we already know.

  21. JS Partisan says:

    Geoff, but more people like what Marvel Studios is, and it’s not a sitcom. Sitcoms, do not translate in all the countries Marvel Studios play in. Neither does Ghostbusters, because the Chinese folks don’t like the ghost. You diminish Marvel Studios all you want, but they made something amazing with Thor, that your DC fanboy self doesn’t like… or get. Remember… YOU READ GRAPHIC NOVELS, and not COMIC BOOKS. And WILLIAM ATHERTON MAKES EVERYTHING FUCKING BETTER. To quote Doctor Hathaway, “YOU ARE NO LONGER OF ANY USE TO ME.” To which Chris Knight responded, “That’s a weird way to start a conversation.”

    You also, seemingly ignore, that Homecoming made more money than Wonder Woman, and that means a lot of people had no problem with Pete’s introduction. Come on, man. You not liking Marvel Studios fare, does not negate that EVERYONE AND THEIR FUCKING MOM FUCKING LOVE IT. This is at least, what hcat’s old ass constantly screams at me about Avatar, but fuck AVATAR! IT CAN’T HOLD MARVEL STUDIO’S JOCK… ahem. Good day :D!

  22. Geoff says:

    Oy vey JD – I’m not talking about GRAPHIC NOVELS or COMIC BOOKS, I’m talking about the best possible MOVIE. 😉 Yeah Spiderman Homecoming did MUCH better in China and significantly better in parts of Europe than Wonder Woman and that relates to my enjoyment of it how??

    Bottom line trying to recreate the magic of a Ghostbusters (no not the GHOSTS, just the genre-blending) TWICE a year is less interesting to ME because I don’t need to see an EPIC, over-stuffed 2.5 hour Ghostbusters any more than I need to see more 3 hour pirate epics starring Johnny Depp. Looks like Black Panther might be different, who knows?

    And before you start taking a bow for SpiderMan’s “successful” reboot and I’ll give Marvel/Sony props that they spent less on this one than they had previously….it made LESS domestically and internationally than SPIDER-MAN 3 and it made significantly less domestically than Wonder Woman even with a hard-sell assist from Iron Man. So take that in your web shooter and smoke it! 😛

    And I don’t care what any one says but Justice League is the movie ‘Age of Ultron wanted to be….much more streamlined and better at introducing new characters. Shame that it’s likely to end up making HALF of what ‘Ultron did worldwide and at roughly the same cost so as I stated in the other feed, you’re welcome to gloat. 😉

  23. JS Partisan says:

    Why would I gloat, Jeff? I mean, Geoff Johns is a wonderful storyteller, and he will figure this shit out. He loves DC as much as Kevin loves Marvel, so that’s always a thing to have.

    Oh. Domestic? That’s what you bring up on a BOX OFFICE BASED WEBSITE? SHAME! Shame. SHAME!

    One more time: you can, of course, view the MSCU anyway you want to view it, but I live and die fucking Ghostbusters. There has never been a time, where I’ve watched those fucking films, and have gone, “MAN! GHOSTBUSTERS!”

    I get, that you are trying to figure out why, something you don’t like or enjoy, is beloved and enjoyed world wide. It just is. Doesn’t change, that DC has made two quality fucking films this year. Those films exists, long after no one gives a shit or a fuck, about fucking box office, Jeff.

  24. Pete B says:

    Sideshow, I will always have your back as a Snyder defender/apologist. (I even find Sucker Punch – the Director’s Cut – entertaining.)

    I did want to give you a personal shoutout for bringing up the Criterion Collection sale at Barnes & Noble. I knew nothing about it, and was able to snatch up ‘Here Comes Mr. Jordan’ and the ‘Lone Wolf & Cub’ box set. Good stuff!

  25. Moorish says:

    “Can you quote ONE memorable line [Hela] had?”


    “I’m not a queen, or a monster. I’m the GODDESS OF DEATH. What were YOU the god of again?”

    That line was badass.

    Can’t remember a single thing Steppenwolf says in JL. Bafflingly crap villain choice.

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