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David Poland

By David Poland

Black Panther: The Math, Objectively

Here is where we are heading on Black Panther.

Tracking indicates, roughly, a $150 million opening.

Huge number. 10% bigger than Deadpool. About 15% less than Beauty & The Beast.

But I am interested in the long term: people are focused on this as a breakthrough for black cinema. But I think it is a normal comic book movie with a not-the-norm visual look and style that can be seen in the ads… plus the extra commercial kick of a unique appeal to black moviegoers. That is, in theory, where the big opportunity is.

The comp would be Wonder Woman, which behaved like most good comic book movies, plus – I estimate – 20% to 25% added domestic gross from women who would normally not go to a comic book movie. There may have been some kick overseas as well, but in the rest of the world, the film was the lowest-grossing of the four DC films in 2016/2017.

The interesting element on Black Panther is that the potential group of ticket buyers who are African American who don’t normally go to comic book movies is smaller than the potential group of female American ticket buyers.

There are roughly 5.5 million African American frequent moviegoers (12 or more movies a year).

There are roughly 21 million African American occasional moviegoers (between 2 and 11 movies a year).

If Black Panther draws, say, 25% more black occasional moviegoers than the approximate 5% of normal attendance in that group and all the frequents, that’s about 10.5 million black ticket buyers domestically… or about $120 million (roughing in IMAX, 3D, a lean to evening and weekend shows, and heavy viewing in cities) coming from black ticket buyers, over perhaps $75 million otherwise.

Then add to that, African Americans who rarely, if ever, go to the movies, the same way conservative whites came out for Passion of the Christ or American Sniper. 35 million opportunities. Find just 5% and that’s another $20 million. Of course, with something like The Passion, that opportunity was nine times bigger… reaching white and brown audiences, as well as religious black audiences.

Regardless of opening, that Black Panther will be end up past Deadpool domestically… and probably just short of Wonder Woman, although $400 million is a real possibility. And I think $75 million – $100 million of that will be African Americans inspired to see a film led by African Americans in front of, and behind the camera.

The reality overseas is going to be the reality overseas. It will not likely be the same smash internationally. Anything over $400 million will be a win. Anything over $350 million will not be a disappointment. And if it’s over $450 million, it will be a breakthrough, important commercial moment for international box office for a movie driven almost exclusively by black faces.

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64 Responses to “Black Panther: The Math, Objectively”

  1. Pete B says:

    What was the African American audience number for the Blade films with Wesley Snipes?

  2. JSPartisan says:

    I would buy the theory, that this is a normal comic book movie with a different look, but it’s 2018. If a different president were in office, then you might be onto something. Now though? Seeing this movie, can be seen as a personal political statement. The sky is literally the limit with this film domestically, because everytime you see it. You are sticking it to white supremacy. So no, it’s not normal.

  3. Doug R says:

    Between Deadpool and WW is very realistic. Depends on the word of mouth and repeat viewings.

  4. Pete B says:

    “If a different president were in office, then you might be onto something. Now though? Seeing this movie, can be seen as a personal political statement.”

    WTF? Pretty sure folks will go see this movie regardless of how they voted in 2016.

  5. JSPartisan says:

    Doubtful, Pete. Doubtful. Much like groups of people needed Wonder Woman last year. A lot of people need T’Challa this year.

  6. Glamourboy says:

    I don’t NEED WW, T’Challa or anyone really…I just need a good movie to go to.

  7. Pete B. says:

    I know Trump supporters who are psyched for Black Panther too. Not everything has to be political.

  8. JSPartisan says:

    If you are a trump supporter, then you going to see Black Panther is rather hilarious. Seeing as you voted for a man, who is racist as hell. Everything is politics. Unless you have that privilege, then you can just ignore it like…

    GB, you get to travel the world, but a lot of people need movies to mean something more. Especially, when their country is run by a racist. Again, if you folks do not get what this means to the African American community, then visit Black Twitter. You’ll see.

  9. PcChongor says:

    Thinking that watching “Black Panther” is an act of protest is woefully misguided and a fairly gross attempt to make one feel politically active without actually doing anything. Frankly, it’s a slap in the face to every great protest movement in both this country and abroad, and no matter how good of a comic book movie “Black Panther” might be, it’s still just an excuse for Disney to rake in some extra cash in a month that they’d otherwise be dumping something in. And you can bet your sweet ass that Bob Iger loves money and preserving the status quo just as much as Trump does.

    “Black Twitter” is also a rather annoying moniker that was created by those who want to feel hip without engaging with the community or adding to the discussion in any meaningful way, and “Black Panther” is without question an event, but no one is naïve enough to think that it’s going to do a shred of good to help the far more immediate and pressing issues facing the community that will require true sacrifice and fortitude to change, and the world would probably be a much better place if as many people saw “Strong Island” as will see “Black Panther” next week.

    I have hope that like with “Shaft,” “Black Panther” will do well enough to open the door for other filmmakers to tell their own stories, some of whom, like Ivan Dixon and his “The Spook Who Sat by the Door,” will be able to use the studio’s newfound audience high to make something truly gonzo and confrontational, but for now, just enjoy a really well-made Marvel film that’s going to make hundreds of millions of dollars for a company that still won’t cop to having made “Song of the South.”

  10. JSPartisan says:

    Pc, I was awaiting such a response, but guess what? We live in a world, where recently, a news network treated the new “Black Panther” party like a viable threat against white people. The movie being called Black Panther alone, is sticking it to white supremacy.It’s not about movement or causes. It’s about a piece of commerce being a personal political statement, but please feel free to do what everyone else does and… NOT RESPOND TO WHAT I WROTE.

    Also, there have been films all throughout the Civil Rights movement, before it and forward, that have held a similar spot to Black Panther. Let’s not act like this hasn’t happen before, and if films like Guess Who’s Coming to Dinner didn’t hold this spot once in time. Movies matter. Representation matters. You negating this because you are a film snob, means nothing, because a bunch of little kids are going to have their minds blown. That’s the point, Pc. It’s the kids, who will see things that can change their entire way of thinking, for their entire life.

    And finally, I’ve lived long enough to have seen The Song of the South in the theatre, and worked at a place that sold “copies” of it to people all over the world. Disney cops to it, but it’s like Warners with the Jazz Man. Copping to it doesn’t change, at all, that the movie is just garbage from beginning to end, and it doesn’t even say anything. It’s just racist bullshit, that anyone today would see and go, “That’s racist.” It deserves to be buried like the lemur videos, that features Disney running lemurs off the cliff.

  11. Hcat says:

    Pete, I think it would have worked the opposite way with Blade where the Snipes audience was responsible for the first half of the gross and comic book fans goosing it above his usual numbers (though there is something to be said for quality taking it past his normal fan base as Blade was much better than his usual Murder at 1600 type thriller).

    JS, there is a difference between a Trump voter and Trump supporter, not all who voted for him share his racist views, not letting anyone off the hook they made a terrible decision, but lets not paint with too broad a brush.

    And I agree with you that this is important, but more for the representation than as an act of protest. Kids being able to see people that look like them performing heroic deeds is important and it is wonderful that so much effort, care, and cash was put into the project. But in no way is buying a ticket to Black Panther sticking it to the man. When this hits 400 domestic the Man gets another Caribbean vacation home staffed by the working poor.

  12. PcChongor says:

    The movie being called Black Panther harkens back to the comic being called Black Panther, which predates the political party, has nothing to do with the WWII tank squadron and all to do with Stan Lee just thinking it sounded cool. Disney didn’t keep that name because they want to stick it to anyone, they kept it because it’s a valuable IP title that they know, as David brilliantly showed with his post, can potentially attract a large audience segment that doesn’t typically go see superhero films. If anything, it’s a bit of good ol’ fashion PT Barnum hucksterism that Coogler was able to use to his advantage to promote a positive image of African lineage and identity.

    Representation does matter, especially for kids so that they can feel attached to mainstream American culture and not always have to make do with the usurped and regurgitated white version or the “Black” version of a white default that the powers that be eventually calculate is finally worth obliging audiences or consumers with (which I think “Black Panther” literally sort of is, but its success will supersede that initial designation by Disney), and I’m glad there’s finally a big-budget studio film that features a predominantly black cast, but again, on the grand scale of things that are immediately important to those living in communities that are under daily threat of being murdered based solely on clothing choice or being in the right place at the wrong time, it means very little–as was also the case with “Guess” and “In the Heat of the Night,” which are more akin to “Hamilton” and were more for the benefit of letting white audiences feel “woke” to a cause that they then don’t feel the need to engage with.

    And praising “Strong Island” over “Black Panther” has nothing to do with film snobbery. If you’ve not seen the film then I would highly recommend it and I still maintain the position that it’s a necessary view to understand the enormity, gravity, and pain of what’s gone on and continues to go on in America every day. I’d also recommend “Rat Film,” “Hypernormalisation,” and “Dayveon” too. These are the types of films that people would benefit most from having their minds blown by.

    And “Song of the South” was always racist. The New York Times called Disney out back in 1946 and there were protests in NYC during its release. Disney is a company steeped in racism and anti-semitism, which isn’t necessarily different from any other studio or corporation in America that’s existed for any length of time, but it’s a reminder that they’re in no way altruistic and just as driven by what’s profitable for themselves as Trump or anyone else is. It’s the role of the filmmaker and artist to exploit that commercial lust and make something that truly subverts and shakes things up, which I don’t think “Black Panther” will do as it’s still just the same formulaic Marvel film that’s been seen a dozen times already now, but having a black generic Marvel film succeed might open the doors for even bolder artistic statements, as will hopefully also be the case for “Wonder Woman,” or how a decades worth of white-producer chash-grab Blaxploitation films eventually led to “Killer of Sheep,” “Do the Right Thing,” and “Malcolm x.”

    I know you mean well and this is by no means a personal attack as I’ve always avoided those on this blog and in general see no point to them, and your enthusiasm for the film is what’s going to allow more freedom of voice for filmmakers who’ve historically been barred from expressing themselves on a big-budget canvas, but don’t be seduced by the Disney machinery too much and keep its importance to real change properly contextualized because race and white supremacy is a life and death issue for many people here, and needlessly marginalizing that only serves to impede understanding of the broader issue and makes more difficult the already-too-long journey towards ensuring equality and the right of opportunity for all.

  13. Philips says:

    I don’t believe for one second that you know Trump supporters who are “psyched” for Black Panther. Who are these mythical creatures? Nice try though. Someone who says everything doesn’t have to be political has the luxury of that mindset for a reason.

  14. Pete B. says:

    Phillip, I hope that was sarcasm. I live in Indiana, one of the reddest states there is and home to VP Pence. There are plenty of folks with advance tix for Black Panther. Even those who voted for the Orange Haired One.

    And people who think everything is political need to pull their head out of their ass and get fresh air every now & then.

  15. PcChongor says:

    That summarizes my previous point about “Black Panther.” Trump supporters in Indiana aren’t wrong to be excited about the film because Disney ensured it’s safe enough to be enjoyed by the widest number of moviegoers. That being said, I’m extremely curious to see what the “red state” view of “Black Panther” is and whether it’s seen as the “PC Marvel movie,” or if it really is far more subversive and akin to “Starship Troopers,” which is probably the prime example of stealth big budget agitprop filmmaking, and generates surprise and backlash from those who were going in expecting nothing but mindless fun.

  16. Pete B. says:

    ^What?!? The bugs aren’t the real villains?

  17. LBB says:

    Very unscientific but my wife would probably be okay if we never went to another superhero movie. Doesn’t hate them, doesn’t get too jazzed by them, gets bored by them easier than I do. We were late to see something late last year and she went ahead while I got popcorn. When I joined her she said, “Trailers were mostly boring but HOLY SHIT Black Panther looks great!”

  18. leahnz says:

    “And people who think everything is political need to pull their head out of their ass and get fresh air every now & then.”

    pete b, you once asked me how i knew that you’re a white dude w/out ever having seen you >>> and scene. nobody else has the luxury of this oblivious delusion
    (taking the ‘it’s not political’ stance in regards to freakin’ Black Panther is a strange hill to die on)

    “JS, there is a difference between a Trump voter and Trump supporter, not all who voted for him share his racist views, not letting anyone off the hook they made a terrible decision, but lets not paint with too broad a brush.”

    oh boy. how about at least acknowledging that every single person who voted for the illegitimate traitor squatting his sadistic fascist ass along with his kakistocracy of hateful crims and know-nothing robber barons in the white house had to wilfully ignore his blatant bull-horn racism, misogyny and depravity on proud display during his life and the run-up to the election, and when one wilfully ignores such glaring bigotry and votes to install such a person in a position of extreme power, YOU OWN THE BIGOTRY

  19. JSPartisan says:

    Pc, I would bet a trump voter in Indiana isn’t excited for Black Panther, but his African-American neighbors are. Seriously. You just can’t state it’s sanitized, because it’s not even close to being that way. Read the reviews, before you plant your flag. I get what you are stating. I really do, but even large market movies can be subversive. It’s like, if the Chinese come out for this movie. The Chinese, then it did something few other African American movies ever done and that is doing something. Big or small. It’s moving the needle.

    Hc, it’s like I am writing Spanish sometimes in here :D! You can do little acts, no matter their effects on commerce or capitalism at large, that can be political actions. Doing things for yourself, that are political, is a thing that happens.

    Aside from that? trump voters are a joke, an embarrassment, and they should be forced to wear “t’s” on their chest for the rest of their lives. The amount of work our next president is going to have to do, to restore faith in our institutions… well… that lady is going to have a fun first term.

    Seriously. If you voted for trump. You voted for a guy, who assaulted women and because he has assaulted women. His freaking staff have to defend other abusers of women, because that means defending him. It’s ludicrous, that this happened.

  20. PcChongor says:

    Absolutely! The economic needle move is where “Black Panther” will hopefully crush every expectation and not necessarily be subversive in that regard, but unprecedented and cause every studio to take note that their previous assumptions about black-led films were entirely wrong (which should be the final nail in that particular coffin now that “Moonlight” and “Get Out” enjoyed commercial and critical success at their respective budget levels). Content-wose, it might be as revolutionary, but neither was the “Black Panther” comic when it first came out, and the success of the film guarantees more time spent with the character, which will inevitably lead to richer and riskier creative gambits (i.e., “Thor: Ragnarok”), so even though it’s by no means a perfect film and the world itself is far, far less perfect than even that, the release of “Black Panther” is still a huge cause for celebration, and I’m glad it’s giving some hope to kids who really deserve it and making at least a few Fox News viewers in Indiana squirm.

  21. PcChongor says:

    *it might not be

  22. Stella's Boy says:

    A movie that makes $150 million in three days is drawing a wide, diverse audience right? Hitting all four quadrants or whatever the industry speak is. So math says many Trump voters are going to see it right? Aren’t there a lot of people who regardless of personal politics see all the superhero movies?

  23. palmtree says:

    There are certainly some Trump supporters who don’t agree with his racism, but who adhere to Libertarian beliefs. And the Marvel movies don’t necessarily contradict those beliefs so…I’m sure they’ll enjoy Black Panther just fine…unless of course BP itself contradicts those beliefs. One of the reasons I actually admire Thor Ragnarok is that is tries to dismantle some of that belief system.

  24. JSPartisan says:

    SB, not exactly. That’s more a 200m dollar opening. A 150m opening, can be driven by major turn outs, from more than one group. If it opens to 200m, then yes, some trump voters will see it. Should they see it? Nah.

  25. Bulldog68 says:

    One should also take into consideration the complete disconnect that many Trump supporters have. Even if BP has some kind of statement, many may just not get what’s right in front of them. It’s a real “talent “ to believe Obama was a Manchurian candidate named Barack who was a Muslim Kenyan homosexual, who was Reverend Wright stooge.

  26. Stella's Boy says:

    I don’t understand how you come up with that distinction. $150 million in three days isn’t evidence of hitting all four quadrants/demographic groups? But $200 million is? How do you figure? I’m sorry but if you don’t think any Trump voters are going to see BP, you’re delusional or willfully ignorant. Hell some might even go just to hatewatch it.

  27. Doug R says:

    trump is a racist sexist pig and it was well known. If you’re fine with voting for a racist sexist pig, that makes you racist and sexist too.

  28. Heather says:

    Coming into this late so not going to get into the weeds at this point but…one danger I see in some of the political comments here is that people assign Trumps values to all those who voted for him ( I for the record did not vote for him) But voting for Trump doesn’t make a person racist, sexist etc. There are hundreds of factors that people weigh when voting yet its an all or nothing game. So if voters didn’t like Hilary, wanted an outsider, wanted a prolife president etc they would vote for Trump while hating all the other things associated with him.

  29. flyover res says:

    Basically what Heather said. I don’t think most of you really understand the enemy. Black Panther is big budget escapism, it isn’t Malcom X. There will be plenty of mouthbreathing knuckle draggers there on opening weekend. Those people like Marvel movies, too.

    Let’s put it another way: do you think the fans packing out Deep South college football games every weekend are exclusively progressives since they’re cheering for predominantly African American players? And save your horseshit about how much kneeling boycotts have hurt the NFL, because football is still a revenue monster and the dominant US sport.

  30. Hcat says:

    Leah, I fully acknowledge that. I am not making any excuses for those who chose Trump, They willfully ignored all the shit, and made the world a more dangerous place.

    Just looking at his approval ratings there seems to be a portion of people that voted for him that have buyers remorse. I am not defending their vote, but thinking that all people that voted for trump are too racist to see a blockbuster with an African American lead strikes me as too broad a characterization. And does anyone think that the fanboy crowd that has a steady undercurrent of woman hating to it does not include trump voters?

  31. David Poland says:

    Trump voters will go see Black Panther.

    I would venture to guess that there is about 15% of Americans who are racist in a way that would cause them to avoid a comic book movie. And only 15% of the that 15% is likely to be regular moviegoers. So a bit extreme on the argument, JSP

    At least half of domestic tickets sold to Black Panther will be sold to white people. Not many of them will politically motivated.

    I maintain that Black Panther will play like most quality comic book movies… plus.

    The movie is a breakthrough… but a breakthrough only speaks to an incremental bump in box office. That was the argument of this coiumn.

    Trump is a piece of shit. About a third of his voters were, in my view, voting against the establishment more than for him and chose to believe his lies about not being a pig. The small group of Americans who might realistically buy Black Panther tickets and will not because of race are surely all Trump voters. But most people who hold views like his do not vote at all and don’t tend to go to the movies.

    Interesting conversation.

  32. JSPartisan says:

    Heather, if you put economics over people, then you are pond scum. You are the lowest of the low. Immigrants, make this country better, and always have. Voting for economic reasons, is as bad as voting against… “the other.” If you voted for trump. You own what he stands for… and that’s not supporting victims of spousal abuse, and crying on twitter about “due process.” Dis… gusting.

    DP, thanks for the clarification. SB, I apparently was a bit extreme :D!

    Flyover, you know why college football isn’t as cravenous as the NFL? College keeps the teams in the locker rooms during the National Anthem. No one assumes, that Alabama is super progressive. Nick Saban, apparently had a small hand in defeating Roy Moore, so that’s a plus. Outside of that? No one really thinks that way about football, and probably never will.

    I am still of the opinion, that this is a big thing, and it’s a big thing to the group of people who find trump abhorrent. If the people who voted for trump want to see this movie or not… doesn’t matter. It’s not about them.

  33. Joe Leydon says:

    I wonder when the folks on Fox News and other RWNJ sites will start trying to push the narrative that Black Panther is a radical anti-white movie because, hey, look at what it’s called. No, I am not joking.

  34. JSPartisan says:

    I think they already would have, but the Murdochs really really really really really really really… want that Disney money.

  35. leahnz says:

    hcat thanks for that, fwiw i wasn’t trying to defend js’s point – i’m sure plenty of dickheads will go see ‘black panter’ – just addressing the one sentiment about the voters and ranting off on a tangent as ushe

    “About a third of his voters were, in my view, voting against the establishment more than for him and chose to believe his lies about not being a pig.

    sorry how does this work? how do you see and hear something and then ‘believe’ the person who did and said these repugnant things as they lie to your face and say ‘wasn’t me’, after you saw it (straight-up authoritarian tactics from the mobbed-up moron), this excuse is dodgy AF.

    what it REALLY means is that deep down these voters were willing and able to minimise drumpf’s overt racist misogynist bigotry and its consequences because deep down they don’t really give that much of a shit that drumpf is a racist misogynist bigot and brimming with malice for the ‘other’ (the demographics of his voters bear this own, there’s something that stands out gee i wonder what it could be), that’s what makes it possible to ‘choose to believe’ something you know is a lie rather than moral bankruptcy, depravity and malice being a deal-breaker

  36. palmtree says:

    I know so-called single-issue Trump voters, who voted because he was against abortion. They would agree that he was a terrible person, but still thought that their Christian faith compelled them to vote for a guy who wasn’t even the slightest bit religious just because he would enact a hard-right pro-Christian agenda. These people somehow sleep at night and will probably be in the Black Panther audience cheerfully believing they are not racist or bad people.

  37. Heather says: what point did I mention immigration? If you bothered to read the post I said I did not and would not vote for Trump. My point can’t say that every person that voted for Trump is a clone of Trump. Its more complex than that but clearly its easier for you to broad stroke and label half the country as the enemy and the other half as heroes. Bottom line, if you really think half the country isn’t going to see a Marvel movie because it stars an African American you really have no clue about anything.

  38. JSPartisan says:

    Heather, I don’t care if they go. That’s never been my point. They can keep their racist and backward hick asses at home, because they aren’t good enough for that level of Black Excellence.

    Also, you went on about the economic points, and my response is simple and plain: if you voted for economic reasons in the last election, and ignored trump being hateful bigot, then fuck you. Those people aren’t half of the country. They are barely 35 percent of the country. I could care less about them, because who cares about people who put their own economic anxiety over other people? Especially people, who do not have a clue about anything, and do not understand it’s not the immigrant who will take their jobs. It’s automation, but I am sure ignorant racist realize what’s really happening in this country.

  39. Heather says:

    JSPartisam…what I said was there are hundreds of factors that go into a persons decision when voting The three random possibilities I mentioned were disliking Hilary, wanting an outsider, or being prolife. None of those are economic points I only posted twice so perhaps you are mixing up who you’re responding too.
    As I said before, not a Trump voter or supporter, but if you’re attitude is “fuck people who worry about themselves and their families” you’re acting like our current commander in chief. Not a good look

  40. JSPartisan says:

    Heather, those people own their vote. Your argument was made on Blackish by the white female character, and guess what? It’s a sham of an argument. These people, have shamed this country, pissed on our reputation, and put their small minded needs above reality. Read the polls: these people believe their is only so much pie, so when the black man was in power. They felt everyone else got ahead, and they were left behind. Of course, that’s not what happened, but that’s what they believed happen. I can go on and on, but the idea of BLACK EXCELLENCE scares these people. They hinder us as a nation. They had eight years of Obama, but they could never enjoy it. Never accept that glimmering light, because he was black, and he “obviously” didn’t care about them. They thought the orange one would, because he speaks common. Great call on their part, as he makes the trade deficit worse, and they continue to lose their jobs.

    That’s where it is at… but please continue to compare people to trump. It’s the most tired argument on this blog, because guess what? I would never support and praise a man who beat his two wives, and probably has the capacity to do it again to someone in Hope Hicks. Who the orange one has said he thinks of as a daughter. If my daughter dated an abuser? Defending the abuser wouldn’t be my first thought.

  41. Heather says:

    I never compared people to Trump..I said you were making a mistake by saying every Trump voter was a clone him. I was actually making the opposite argument. I think you have one two many debates going om here. Anyway, you are correct in some of your comments but I think you fail to realize that the voter you describing is a fraction of the people that voted for him. You can’t just broad stroke and say they are all the same(who does that sound like hmmm) But back to the original point which is people in this country don’t care if the lead in the new marvel movie is back or not they are going to see the movie

  42. amblinman says:


    There has been too much exit polling data showing that the overwhelming reason most voted for Trump was racism. This doesn’t mean they don’t love their families or even necessarily hate anyone, but racism was a key in the decision to vote for Trump for not-a-fraction of his voters. You’re right that the reasons behind it are multitude, it’s not simply about hating someone, but even folks who voted for Obama in the previous election(s) voted for Trump due to racism.

    As a country, it would be great if we stop trying to obfuscate racism with pleas to consider economics. It’s a deflection to let people off the hook for voting with their fears, and gives politicians cover to play to those fears while insisting they’re just worrying about people who worry about their families.

  43. palmtree says:

    It’s more complex than that though. Many of the same people who voted for Trump also voted for Obama. My theory is that they believed that vote would absolve them of their racist feelings, freeing them to vote for a raging racist down the line. It’s called moral licensing. Similarly, many of them will also see Black Panther to find absolution.

    And just because people harbor racist feelings and views doesn’t mean they would avoid a piece of entertainment. Otherwise who is watching professional sports?

  44. Hcat says:

    I would also like to point out the “economic” concerns that people have usually result in policies that harm people of color specifically and create greater economic inequality for all.

    Not that they would realize this, of the people I work with who I think voted for Trump their awareness of the world around them is limited to their Instagram feed. I was at the bar with some when the Gov shut down at midnight in January and they were surprised to hear it as if the looming shutdown had not been the banner headline in the national news for the past two weeks. Most of the people I know around here vote and than ignore everything until the next election rolls around.

  45. movieman says:

    Anyone checked out the “BP” comments on Variety’s website?
    I hadn’t realized that Variety had gotten co-opted by the FOX News crowd.
    Pretty frightening.

  46. JSPartisan says:

    MM, the alt-right has a lot of script kitties, that love sending bots to do their bidding. It’s annoying, but until you are forced to use your NAME to post to places. This is going to be a thing, when these racist idiots get upset over the future not accepting their racist idiotic nonsense.

  47. Ray Pride says:

    Also frightening that there’s no one on staff to moderate the garbage off the page.

  48. palmtree says:

    According to one of the comments, they were sent there from Drudge. It’s basically an army of people willing to parrot the alt-right line based on nothing more than a headline and a link.

  49. leahnz says:

    to everyone who was all ‘it can’t happen here, tut tut, pooh pooh’, you were warned and huh, guess what, it’s happening America you’re being ratfucked by the Klan in expensive suits, dismantled and sold for parts to enrich the very few, and it may already be too late to preserve your fragile democracy (because all democracy is fragile and needs tending and vigilance and working checks and balances to maintain it) but maybe at least act accordingly and fight like hell for your fucking country and the best ideals and good it can stand for rather than standing by and letting a pack of lying dime-store villains and abusers win in a complacency ‘it can’t happen here’ stupor

  50. brack says:

    This country is too stupid to realize it, leahnz. Wish it wasn’t, but it is.

  51. JSPartisan says:

    That’s the thing: there are more and more people getting it every day. Shit is changing. Stating we are just too stupid to change ignores, that shit is changing.

  52. palmtree says:

    The problem is not the stupidity of people (although obviously a lot of people are stupid).

    The problem is we let propaganda flourish and we let money dictate how people are elected and what gets in the media.

    Things used to be different…we had the Fairness Doctrine and there were limits on campaign spending, etc. One by one we got rid of our protections and now we’re in a situation where large swaths of people can be manipulated into bullshit.

    Shit is changing, but only because we have the power now to become the change and not rely on institutions. At least this is the hope.

  53. brack says:

    I’m not convinced things are changing until Democrats take back the House. The gerrymandering of districts is what’s killing the country. Maybe something will change in two years when lines are redrawn, but I’m not holding my breath.

  54. Hcat says:

    its the money in campaigns, citizens united set the bargain so that the rich pay for the elections and we will foot the bill for the government. It’s a shit deal but hopefully there is a ground swell of new people running at different levels. I know a half dozen people running for local or state positions that would have never considered it 18 months ago

  55. palmtree says:

    Hcat, that path started before Citizens United back in 1976 with Buckley v Valeo, when suddenly they decided money is a form of protected speech. This allowed unlimited campaign spending.

  56. `MNBT5 says:

    Most gerrymanders are being proven unconstitutional, so you don’t have to wait for two years. People are pissed. Yesterday just makes people angrier. The main way to stop gerrymandering is turn out, and I doubt trump is going to stop doing things that piss the country off. The wave is coming.

  57. JSPartisan says:

    The kid, hit the keyboard, and changed the log in name. MNBT5 is a hell of a Trooper name. He works on a snowy world, has a family, but man! The empire is a drag!

  58. leahnz says:

    i feel sad for you guys (and my guys there)

    just assuming you’ll have free and fair Fed elections going forward is almost cute at this point — the extent to which the electronic voting apparatus can be fucked with (and already has been, very likely) in several ways has been clearly shown, not to mention the ability to hack voter databases, already confirmed penetrated before the election by putin’s cy-ops in i think it was 26 states at least, with the info gathered likely passed on to cambridge analytica, at minimum. maybe way worse.
    of course voter roles can also be manipulated/altered with malware, affecting tallies — and the hotshots don’t leave a trace if they don’t want to; since everything is projecting with putin and hair furor i think this is what putin was alluding to when he said if the Russian hackers had didded the election you’d never know it; what’s the old saying? it’s not a fact till pute’s has denied it) not to mention purged, a type of suppression also rife in the 2016 elec with one insidious type being kreepy kobach’s POC-area-targeting ‘cross check’ in swing states – look at the stats for WI, PA and MI, it’s election altering pretty much on its own, enabled in part by the actual treatment of provisional ballots in the system, rarely counted.
    just the combination of voter suppression + gerrymandering is a potent tool (and only possible now to such an extent because of the gutting of the VRA) for the liars and cheaters, who can’t win without it and they know it, that’s why they do it

  59. palmtree says:

    Uh….We need a Black Panther movie thread up in here, please!

  60. spassky says:

    democracy is fucked, prop check on ccp inserting ‘authoritarian government is so much better’ into social media feeds … world’s fucked. when’s the new jill solloway come out?

  61. leahnz says:

    oh my goodness, i posted that comment above from my tablet without time for a proofread, yowza
    (diddled the election, diddled!)

    “prop check on ccp inserting ‘authoritarian government is so much better’ into social media feeds…world’s fucked.”

    word. as the great sarah kendzior says, once an autocrat is in power it’s very hard to get them out.

  62. Spassky says:

    Im moving to wakanda… side note how many children will think this country is real frim now on? Fuck it maybe zimbabwe should rebrand after mugabes ouster

  63. leahnz says:

    can you please take peter thiel with you so that fuckwad doesn’t end up here

  64. Bo says:

    I don’t know who wrote this article as I’m new here. However, I would suggest that whoever it is that they get their mind right about Jennifer Lawrence. She’s turned a lot of people off with her silly, immature antics on the red carpet and on talk shows. It’s almost sad to see and realize how much of a bimbo she seems to be. I can’t take her seriously and can’t imagine there is any depth in the immature and silly head of hers to be taken seriously as an actress. She’s but another Hollywood slick entertainer now loving the big money and fame and sucking up the attention like her life depends on it. I find her quite repelling, actually. Certainly not the authentic and terrific actress I saw in Winter’s Bone. Hollywood has consumed her and corrupted her which is impossible to do with someone with intelligence and grace and aesthetically aware. She is none of those.

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It shows how out of it I was in trying to be in it, acknowledging that I was out of it to myself, and then thinking, “Okay, how do I stop being out of it? Well, I get some legitimate illogical narrative ideas” — some novel, you know?

So I decided on three writers that I might be able to option their material and get some producer, or myself as producer, and then get some writer to do a screenplay on it, and maybe make a movie.

And so the three projects were “Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep,” “Naked Lunch” and a collection of Bukowski. Which, in 1975, forget it — I mean, that was nuts. Hollywood would not touch any of that, but I was looking for something commercial, and I thought that all of these things were coming.

There would be no Blade Runner if there was no Ray Bradbury. I couldn’t find Philip K. Dick. His agent didn’t even know where he was. And so I gave up.

I was walking down the street and I ran into Bradbury — he directed a play that I was going to do as an actor, so we know each other, but he yelled “hi” — and I’d forgot who he was.

So at my girlfriend Barbara Hershey’s urging — I was with her at that moment — she said, “Talk to him! That guy really wants to talk to you,” and I said “No, fuck him,” and keep walking.

But then I did, and then I realized who it was, and I thought, “Wait, he’s in that realm, maybe he knows Philip K. Dick.” I said, “You know a guy named—” “Yeah, sure — you want his phone number?”

My friend paid my rent for a year while I wrote, because it turned out we couldn’t get a writer. My friends kept on me about, well, if you can’t get a writer, then you write.”
~ Hampton Fancher

“That was the most disappointing thing to me in how this thing was played. Is that I’m on the phone with you now, after all that’s been said, and the fundamental distinction between what James is dealing with in these other cases is not actually brought to the fore. The fundamental difference is that James Franco didn’t seek to use his position to have sex with anyone. There’s not a case of that. He wasn’t using his position or status to try to solicit a sexual favor from anyone. If he had — if that were what the accusation involved — the show would not have gone on. We would have folded up shop and we would have not completed the show. Because then it would have been the same as Harvey Weinstein, or Les Moonves, or any of these cases that are fundamental to this new paradigm. Did you not notice that? Why did you not notice that? Is that not something notable to say, journalistically? Because nobody could find the voice to say it. I’m not just being rhetorical. Why is it that you and the other critics, none of you could find the voice to say, “You know, it’s not this, it’s that”? Because — let me go on and speak further to this. If you go back to the L.A. Times piece, that’s what it lacked. That’s what they were not able to deliver. The one example in the five that involved an issue of a sexual act was between James and a woman he was dating, who he was not working with. There was no professional dynamic in any capacity.

~ David Simon