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By Ray Pride



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39 Responses to “BYOSpoilers – BLACK PANTHER”

  1. JSPartisan says:

    Winston Duke needs to be a huge movie star. Seriously.

  2. Doug R says:

    Ok, I’ll kick in. My family heritage is Mennonite which was always forming small colonies and sticking in tight communities. One of the main precepts is staying out of wars the logic being is wars are inventions of man. This meant moving colonies once in a while to stay ahead of governments that changed their minds on conscription policies. Yes, the Pennsylvania D(e)utch(e) are related to us. Note their prohibitions against modern materials and methods meant they had some interesting innovations such as the water pump with no metal parts which was revived to help in some poorer countries with poor access to metals.
    It was always a struggle as to how much to interact with the rest of the world, less than 100 years ago Mennnonite communities everywhere spoke only Plautesh, a form of German.
    This very African Black Panther spoke to the need to help the wider community around you, take a little risk and share your knowledge.
    It’s telling that when the kid asks him “Is that your ship” T’Challa doesn’t answer him as if the answer is changing as we watch.

  3. Triple Option says:

    Who reads the comic? How faithful was the film? How was Killmonger portrayed? Was more detail given to his plot to change the world? Does he steal the weapon out of the muesum? In the movie, what becomes of it? Is it the blade that’s ultimately used by Black Panther to kill Kill? I get that they wanted to remain isolated and undected but it did seem like there was room for them to do both, help the outer world as Killmonger desired as well as remain hidden. Unless I missed it in the film, I wondered if the comic added more to why Killmonger couldn’t have been heard or trusted w/out a revolution?

  4. Amblinman says:

    Much better Star Wars movie than Last Jedi.

  5. Dr Wally Rises says:

    Another precisely calibrated entertainment cranked out by the EA Sports of the movie industry, with a touch more style and soul than usual. One oddity – why was the CGI de-aging technique applied to Douglas, Downey and Russell in previous Marvel movies not used here in the flashback scene? Forest Whitaker was already a prominent and acclaimed actor in 1992 (Bird, Good Morning Vietnam, The Crying Game), so it felt weird having another actor in the part of the movie. Creative choice, or did the budget not stretch as far as it did for Civil War or Guardians 2?

  6. palmtree says:

    Maybe it’s supposed to be a reveal so the different actor helps hide it better?

  7. Dr Wally Rises says:

    Maybe yeah, but I still think it would have worked in story terms to have Forest Whitaker in LA in the prologue, and then reveal him Wakanda later on. And as I say, we already know that Marvel can do it.

  8. JSPartisan says:

    Dr. Wally, the EA Sports of cinema? You apparently know very little about video games and cinema! HOOGAH!

  9. David says:

    Another notch in the belt for Asad Ayaz, does David Poland hear anything to the smoke rumors about him taking over all Disney marketing with Sammeth gone?

  10. Stella's Boy says:

    I love that the best warrior and general is a woman. I love that his younger sister is a tech genius. I love that he’s a strong black superhero. I love that the characters of color are heroes and villains and shades of gray and talk about serious matters. And sitting next to young black kids, male and female, as they clapped and cheered and booed, was a wonderful experience. In some ways it’s not at all an ordinary comic book movie. I really liked most of those parts. In other ways I felt like I was watching yet another $200 million movie with fully CGI characters fighting against a green screen. The action scenes are mostly ho-hum. In some ways it’s constrained by being a Marvel movie. The cast is spectacular and I’m really glad I saw it. I’m thrilled it’s being so well-received. It’s long overdue. These movies just aren’t my cup of tea, so while I enjoyed it far more than say The Avengers or Civil War, I can’t say I unabashedly loved it.

  11. JSPartisan says:

    SB, I mean this honestly: I am glad that you loved one of these movies. Glad they finally gave you something to enjoy.

  12. Pete B says:

    This made me laugh.

    From Brian Grubb at
    “To be perfectly honest, I would have been happier if the post-credits scene just explained Wakanda a little more, instead of bringing Bucky out for a minute. I am now fascinated by it. Think about this: There have to be citizens of Wakanda whose job it is to hang out in the dry fields all the time pretending to be poor farmers, even though the rest of the people get to live in a futuristic vibranium-lined paradise. They must be so pissed off all day, working the fields in a back-breakingly believable enough manner to fool satellite images, thinking about their cousin Vernon or whatever playing his vibranium PlayStation on the bullet train to the downtown area. That’s the sequel I want to see. Just those dudes complaining for two hours.”

  13. JSPartisan says:

    Those people, seem to be the border patrol.

  14. palmtree says:

    In some countries like South Korea and Israel, you have a mandatory service time in the military, almost like a rite of passage. Maybe it’s something like that where people are asked to do it for a year of their lives. Hey, it’s a small price to pay to live in the best country ever.

  15. brack says:

    Liked it a lot, but wasn’t my favorite Marvel Studios movie. Still has the problems a character’s first outings. Weak villain, and why was he the rightful heir to the throne again? That made no sense. And I was rather shocked that no one of true significance didn’t die. Not that I was wishing it, but it seemed like the movie was wanting to play it a bit too safe, but hey, those are minor quibbles. The action, acting, characters, cgi, etc were all top notch for me. The women were all gorgeous. You would have to think BP is going to help Infinity War significantly come May.

    Oh, and the Grace Jones joke at the beginning was good, but I think the crowd I saw it with is too young to know who she is.

  16. Doug R says:

    Palmtree-Maybe there’s a cosplay draft?

  17. palmtree says:

    It’s the opposite of cosplay. It’s coswork.

  18. movieman says:

    Favorite things about “Black Panther:”
    Michael B. Jordan (if he isn’t the Denzel of his generation, I don’t know who is)
    the warrior women of Wakanda (bow!)
    Wakanda’s mythical backstory (e.g., the stuff that’s usually the weakest part of a Marvel movie)

    Least favorite thing about “Black Panther:”
    the action setpieces (not particularly interesting or well-done: Coogler is a terrific director, but he’s not an “action guy”)

  19. palmtree says:

    I thought the casino scene was well done with a lot of great practical effects. That scene made me sit up, because I recognized there was some real craftmanship going on. And indeed, there’s a Vanity Fair video where Coogler walks us through his process, and it’s pretty spot on.

    However, once BP got into the CG fights, it lost a bit of its charm, but hey, it was still as engaging as your standard Marvel big fight.

  20. movieman says:

    The action stuff–the car chase; the casino scene; the climactic blow-out–were the only parts of the movie that felt Marvel-generic to me, Palm.
    Pretty much everything else (i.e., my favorite things: see above) elevates the traditional 21st century comic book movie template to an almost ethereal level.

    You know what could have been another really cool “Black Panther” movie? If Ousmane Sembene and Melvin van Peebles had co-directed “B-P” in the ’70s w/ Sembene doing the Wakanda scenes and van Peebles everything else.
    The mind reels.
    Oh, yeah. And produced by Menahem Golan for Cannon Films.

  21. palmtree says:

    Maybe my favorite part of the movie occurs in the casino scene where the camera flies up to Danai Gurira fighting on the second floor, she kicks someone off the balcony, and then she jumps off the balcony herself. I believe it’s all done in one take. And the music underscoring it all is this haunting women’s chorus. Absolute perfection, even if you disliked the rest of the casino.

  22. JSPartisan says:

    MM, that version of Black Panther, would be insane, but I’d watch it.

    Brack, he was an heir to the throne, because his father was T’Chakka’s brother. He had the chance to fight for the throne, like M’baku did. Also, deaths in fiction have been cheap, for the most part, since Sherlock was killed off. T’Challa technically died… like Sherlock before him

    The Oakland scenes are there for a solid story reason: what better place to start a revolution? T’Chakka’s brother wanted to do one that would lead to world domination. T’Challa, wants to raise his people up… like the Black Panthers wanted to do 3 months after T’Challa made his first comic book appearance. It’s poetry. It rhymes.

  23. brack says:

    Yeah,TH brought up those points earlier, though never hurts to be reminded. Just the way Killmonger came across with his lines threw me off, so I appreciate the clarification.

    I get the Oakland scenes, but they were so brief and tacked on that it’s impossible not to believe there’s some pandering to the African American audience. Not saying pandering is bad, but I’m just calling a spade a spade, and to pretend that wasn’t highly calculated is being very naive. Those scenes could have happened anywhere in Africa practically, but instead they were in Oakland in the US. You’d think Africans would be for helping other Africans first, not African Americans. Like I said, pandering.

  24. JSPartisan says:

    That’s what we call a problematic post!

  25. brack says:

    Oh do explain oh wise one.

  26. brack says:

    My point is that this movie had almost nothing to do with African Americans except for the beginning and end. That’s it. So excuse me for such a “problematic post”. *roll eyes*. It’s problematic for you, maybe, I doubt anyone else.

  27. JSPartisan says:

    It has everything to do with African Americans, and people of African descent all over the world. Killmonger wants to do what he wants to do, for those 2bn people. That’s the point. Sure. it’s set in Africa, but it’s about so much more, but you glanced right over it. Yup.

  28. brack says:

    I didn’t glance over anything. You glanced over the idea that it was inherently an African American movie. Just because someone is African American doesn’t makes one African, hate to to break it to you JSP. That’s the point. Sure there’s a global aspect to the move, but it had to do with arms races and expanding technology. The movie glanced over that, not me. Yup.

  29. JSPartisan says:

    No. It had very little to do with the arms race, and more to do with what Wakanda’s place should be in the world. It’s funny you hurl out the above, when you state the Oakland scenes are pandering. It’s whatever, man.

  30. Bulldog says:

    Finally saw it. Really liked it. It still didn’t correct many things about blacks in movies though. A black guy still dies in the beginning. 🙂

    I am truly just channeling Roy Wood of The Daily Show with that comment. I do want to see it again very soon. Loved the women, and particularly their sense of humor. Loved the tech as well.

  31. brack says:

    Of all the places in the world to try to help their African brothers and sisters, they pick areas to arm strewn gangs in the US? I’d think they’d stick closer to home and consider the third world problems in Africa. Even though this country has and in many ways still treat African Americans terribly, it’s still was still far better to be in the US in 1992 than in many African nations. I have a coworker who came over from Somalia and the stories he told me are horrifying. He has pretty bad PSTD according to his girlfriend that I work, with awful nightmares/flashbacks. I’m not discounting the movie when mentioning this, it’s just a minor observation and I didn’t mean to disrespect the film or its message.

  32. JSPartisan says:

    It’s not about the gangs. It’s about the oppressed. Killmonger wants an empire, because he wants the oppressed, to be the oppressor. His dad wanted to arm people for very much the same reasons.

  33. brack says:

    Still a very conscious decision to begin and end in America. It’s not just a coincidence. I’m not that naïve. You shouldn’t be either. Again, this is a minor quibble, Lighten up. Oh wait, I forgot who I’m talking to. The movie you like is making gang busters. Can’t you ever be happy, and do you you always have to be “right?” No, your one-upsmanshiip must always be evident. Stay you JS, stay you. That I can always guarantee. Up there with death and taxes is quite the accomplishment.

  34. brack says:

    And before you make your almost predicable reply, just know I know what the point of those scenes were. But guess what? We’re both “right.” Deal with it. There are so many real problems and things that matter in the world, not your petty feelings about my own thoughts and my insignificant jabs at your whining and carrying on. If you really knew dude, if you really knew. That’s it folks, show’s over. Like I ever cared to make a show with js

    David, if you want to ban me, ban me. I’m not calling him names or saying anything that hasn’t been said countless times.

  35. JSPartisan says:

    Almost predictable reply? Look in the mirror, and you shouldn’t be banned. Not for anything here at least.

  36. brack says:

    You’re right Killmonger was so noble. When did a country helping the opreased become the oppresser every really work again? Just would like to know how well you knew your history. I’ll wait for your answer. Oakland is the most oppressed place in the world? It all makes sense now. How is Killmonger doing anything for his people that will truly help them, by oppressing others? Some help. You think he really thinks that can work? I’d love to hear your answers to these questions. The US, home of the free, and you’re free to be free, but only our way of freedom, and we can help you pick your democracy, whether it will really work or not, and we’ll never truly leave anyplace whether we win or lose. But don’t worry, Black Panther is going to change everything.

  37. brack says:

    I should ban myself from interacting with you, I’m a glutton for punishment, what can I say?

  38. JSPartisan says:

    Dude, you think I am the other, or some enemy. Again, what you have with “Me,” has nothing to do with me. You dig?

    And you know what? The sun never set on the British Empire. The Belgian Congo. French Ghana. I can go on and on, but you just want to yell at a history major. That’s fine. The point is: everything you written above is written by a man who has never thought what having the power of a spear that could stop a tank would mean to people, that have the cops harassing them, have financial insecurity from income disparity, and let’s not forget they can’t wear hoodies or some bitch will kill them.

    You aren’t free to be in this country. If you are a black man, a black woman, or a black kid. A black kid, had some white fire fighter spit on him, call him the “N” word, and then the white cops let him walk. If you don’t think that little kid didn’t understand Killmonger at that point, then you’ve never truly felt it. I felt it at four. When my grandma told me about being forced from her home, taken to Indian school, and having the government take her name from her. You don’t forget seeing that in someone’s eyes, and I can see it anytime I close my eyes. I understand Killmonger, and always will.

  39. brack says:

    That’s the best, sensical argument I’ve seen you make about anything in a while. But even after he’s been to Wakanda, he still thinks it’s a fairytale? Maybe that’s a metaphorical statement?

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It shows how out of it I was in trying to be in it, acknowledging that I was out of it to myself, and then thinking, “Okay, how do I stop being out of it? Well, I get some legitimate illogical narrative ideas” — some novel, you know?

So I decided on three writers that I might be able to option their material and get some producer, or myself as producer, and then get some writer to do a screenplay on it, and maybe make a movie.

And so the three projects were “Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep,” “Naked Lunch” and a collection of Bukowski. Which, in 1975, forget it — I mean, that was nuts. Hollywood would not touch any of that, but I was looking for something commercial, and I thought that all of these things were coming.

There would be no Blade Runner if there was no Ray Bradbury. I couldn’t find Philip K. Dick. His agent didn’t even know where he was. And so I gave up.

I was walking down the street and I ran into Bradbury — he directed a play that I was going to do as an actor, so we know each other, but he yelled “hi” — and I’d forgot who he was.

So at my girlfriend Barbara Hershey’s urging — I was with her at that moment — she said, “Talk to him! That guy really wants to talk to you,” and I said “No, fuck him,” and keep walking.

But then I did, and then I realized who it was, and I thought, “Wait, he’s in that realm, maybe he knows Philip K. Dick.” I said, “You know a guy named—” “Yeah, sure — you want his phone number?”

My friend paid my rent for a year while I wrote, because it turned out we couldn’t get a writer. My friends kept on me about, well, if you can’t get a writer, then you write.”
~ Hampton Fancher

“That was the most disappointing thing to me in how this thing was played. Is that I’m on the phone with you now, after all that’s been said, and the fundamental distinction between what James is dealing with in these other cases is not actually brought to the fore. The fundamental difference is that James Franco didn’t seek to use his position to have sex with anyone. There’s not a case of that. He wasn’t using his position or status to try to solicit a sexual favor from anyone. If he had — if that were what the accusation involved — the show would not have gone on. We would have folded up shop and we would have not completed the show. Because then it would have been the same as Harvey Weinstein, or Les Moonves, or any of these cases that are fundamental to this new paradigm. Did you not notice that? Why did you not notice that? Is that not something notable to say, journalistically? Because nobody could find the voice to say it. I’m not just being rhetorical. Why is it that you and the other critics, none of you could find the voice to say, “You know, it’s not this, it’s that”? Because — let me go on and speak further to this. If you go back to the L.A. Times piece, that’s what it lacked. That’s what they were not able to deliver. The one example in the five that involved an issue of a sexual act was between James and a woman he was dating, who he was not working with. There was no professional dynamic in any capacity.

~ David Simon