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BYOSpoilers: It’s The Endgame Of The World As We Know It




SPOILER: It’s all about the love for sliding glass doors.


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205 Responses to “BYOSpoilers: It’s The Endgame Of The World As We Know It”

  1. Sideshow Bill says:

    So spoilers are ok here? Because I loved the hell out of it but have one big question. I’ll wait until we agree it’s ok.

  2. MarkVH says:

    Yeah spoilers are cool as far as I know.

    I haven’t loved the Marvel movies but I thought this was pretty terrific. Spends too much time dicking around for the first two hours but the last hour absolutely kills (with the exception of I couldn’t give less of a shit about Captain Marvel as a character). Really dig the full-circle nature of how they wrapped it all up. Color me really impressed.

  3. Sideshow Bill says:

    How did Tony get the stones? Was it because he built the gauntlet with his nanotechnology? That’s kinda clear to me now but at the time I didn’t get it. Also didn’t care because Downey and Brolin played they’re final scenes beautifully.

    The time travel stuff presents all sorts of holes and problems but since we really don’t know how it might work I can overlook all that. Cap’s ending doesn’t fit but it’s thematically appropriate (even though he kinda sorta stole another man’s wife).

    And they did Black Widow dirty. I guess her movie will be a prequel? And are we to assume Nat and Clint were in love because otherwise he didn’t sacrifice enough to get that stone.

    Minor quibbles. My daughter and I had a hell of a lot of fun. It closed things with satisfaction for me, and I’m not sure where the MCU goes from here.

  4. JS Partisan says:

    The biggest question is: what the fuck is the Black Widow movie going to be? Nat never knew her dad’s name, the reason we hear Thanos’ dad’s name in Infinity War, has to do with him being an Eternal, but Nat is now dead. Hulk tried to get her back, but the stones refused. How exactly does Marvel Studios and Disney, sell a Black Widow movie, when Black Widow has a sort of finality in this movie? They can do what they did with Gamora, but… I just can’t wait for Feige to have to explain this, because HE’S GOING TO HAVE TO EXPLAIN IT! Yeah. Yeah. He’ll be vague, but it’s going to have to be discussed, because it’s weird to give Scarlett a movie. After her character died.

    Oh yeah, Clint and Nat loved one another, like brother and sister. They are family, and all the stone requires is you to sacrifice someone you love, and they loved one another. I would agree, that they did Nat wrong, but it’s like Trinity’s death. The snap, and it’s consequences, really fucked her up, and she did what she had to do, to get everyone back.

    Also, we now know what the Loki series is about… his time with the Space stone, and what he did while he was on the run. That’s going to be a silly ass series.

    You also have the weirdness, of Marvel Studios creating, a whole, “ALL NEW ALL DIFFERENT,” version of their universe. It’s like, Ned and Pete both had to be snapped, and everyone in Far from Home had to be as well, because it makes no sense otherwise. Hell. Maybe that’s one of the reasons Mysterio turns evil, is people came back, and he lost his position? It’s weird to not revert everything back to one, but I sure as shit wouldn’t snap my kid out of existence, so I feel Tony.

    And man, I’ve had a longer cinematic relationship with Iron Man, then damn near any other character. It will be weird, to not have that character around for a while. Weird and sad. Here’s to Tony.


  5. JS Partisan says:

    Oh yeah, I love that they basically CGIed Captain Marvel’s pants, because everyone complained about her looking too glam in the film. Seriously. Look at the picture above, and realize that they changed her appearance in like the last month.

  6. Amblinman says:

    It was good. The climax saves the whole thing. The second hour or whatever was starting to feel like Mystery Men.

  7. MarkVH says:

    AM, that’s pretty much how I felt. It’s kind of tonally all over the place and an overall structural mess but that last hour fucks.

  8. Amblinman says:

    I think the film’s biggest problem is actually the time heist section. It’s just not nearly as much fun as it should be, and they really dont do much with it if you recreate it in your head. The middle is supposed to be a Spielberg/Zemeckis summer movie. Russos are good but they don’t have those chops. The cap vs cap bit is neat tho.

  9. MarkVH says:

    I mean, let’s be honest – the Russos are decent brand stewards but they’re barely competent directors. There’s nowhere that’s clearer than in the final battle, which delivers scale and emotional heft but mostly just ends up being a lot of superheroes beating up faceless bad guys against big CGI backgrounds while the core guys duke it out with Thanos.

    Also, and this is more of a script thing, but while the Thor stuff is funny on its own (Lebowski!) it really felt like it belonged in another movie. I way preferred the combination of humor and badassery that was his character in Infinity War. And I kind of hated what they did with Hulk – CGI Ruffalo looked and sounded goofy and contributed to the overall kind of weird tone of those first couple of hours.

    Still, the overall emotional impact of the movie is hard to deny and it really brings it in the end. Hack a half hour out out of it and I think you’ve got a better movie.

  10. Hcat says:

    So are the Russos this decades John Glen?

    And since no one ever really dies, doesn’t this just set up a metaphysical road trip movie where Hulk forces Loki to help him rescue Widow somewhere down the line? From my Layman’s understanding Widow is more trapped than deceased.

  11. MarkVH says:

    It’s also kind of weird how the Infinity War stinger set up Captain Marvel to come save the day in Endgame (with a whole movie in between to let us know what Captain Marvel actually is), then when she shows up in Endgame literally all she does is save the day. She has no purpose in the movie other than as a device. Bizarre that they couldn’t figure out a way to use her more or at least in a more interesting way.

  12. Amblinman says:

    @Mark yes on all points. I like the Russos more than you, though. I thought Winter Soldier was one of the flat out best straight action movies I’ve seen in forever. Compare their elevator fight with Mctiernan’s in Die Hard With A Vengeance. The former is so good at identifying where all the combatants are, and the “mini stakes” through the segment. The latter is a mess.

    Speaking of the Hulk in Endgame: I didn’t mind the schtick, but I thought there would be a payoff. Nope. He’s just Goofy Hulk now. Okay.

  13. MarkVH says:

    Yeah, I kind of thought at some point we’d get a reversion to, y’know, The Hulk, but instead he’s just big green Bruce Banner throughout. He’s got no actual arc in the movie. Just seemed like a bizarre choice.

    Man I’m talking myself out of liking this movie a lot more when I actually think about it (never a good idea with a Marvel movie). Eh, whatever. It’s fine. Pretty satisfying. It kind of mirrored Infinity War for me, which I thought started out strong but lost steam as it went along. This one takes fucking forever to get going but once it does I think the payoff mostly works really well. In a way it’s not even an Avengers movie, but rather a combination Iron Man 4 and Captain America 4.

  14. Amblinman says:

    Yeah, I knew walking out of the theater the “glow” on this one would wear off quicker. Not surprised. It is a weird project. They wanted to end the Infinity arc, provide fan service for virtually every character to appear in the MCU, take a gigantic curtain call, AND reboot a few keystone characters. It’s a lot.

  15. Amblinman says:

    “In a way it’s not even an Avengers movie, but rather a combination Iron Man 4 and Captain America 4.”

    I think JS is right: you can’t really consider these
    movies as normal MCU movies. I think “Avengers” is really just the brand for the Super Summer Team ups we’ll get every 3-5 years.

  16. MarkVH says:

    Oh for sure. They’re the crossover episodes, a/la Buffy/Angel or the big crossover comics. Very special episodes. Totally get that.

  17. Amblinman says:

    Here is all I shall be caring about between now and when I see it:

  18. Js partisan says:

    Oh look. The pissing on the leg portion of the spoilers, wooo :D. If you think that Deadwood movie is going to pay off, then I commend your optimism.

    HC, Gamora and Widow are in the soul world, and it seems like Quill wants to go and find his Gamora. You know someone isn’t a super deep fan of a property, when said person states IRON MAN AND BLACK WIDOW DYING, really isn’t anyone dying. Come on. Just come on.

  19. Sideshow Bill says:

    RE: Thor and Hulk. I expected them both to revert at some point too and maybe would have preferred it. But I’ll give credit to the Russo’s: they commited to those ideas 100%. For better or worse.

  20. Hcat says:

    Sorry if I put that wrong JS, I didn’t mean to say that it wasn’t a big deal or not a bold choice that they died. Just that under the basic rules of comic narratives, fatalities aren’t always final, this being film adaptions its likely to stick, but they have a way back if they want. I mean they just brought back half the goddamned universe.

    But you are correct I am not much of a fan of the property, certainly not super or deep, though they have been improving.

  21. Greg says:

    I thought it was terrific and I actually cried for 90 seconds or so. Goofy Thor and Hulk went on too long, I agree. I also don’t think Brie Larson is a good fit for any of this. Her line readings drive me crazy.

  22. Js Partisan says:

    Brie’s wonderful, and she was still the character in Endgame.

  23. Js partisan says:

    Shit. It deleted, “Finding.” Brie was still sorting Carol out, but she’s already a beloved part of this franchise. She’s the face now.

  24. GdB says:

    I feel the movie is almost perfect except for:

    1. I really really really wanted to see Daryl sitting there with Korg and Meek in New Asgard and made canon. I also would’ve loved seeing Lebowski Thor pouring his heart out to Daryl too.

    2. The whole subplot thread of little Gamora in the Soul Stone and what that meant was totally dropped/ignored and I thought, (going by what I’ve caught up with my Marvel Unlimited sub) would be key to her return.

    (Though arguably this plot thread can be picked up in the next Guardians of the Galaxy flick. I hope Thor’s in it. Good corporate synergy with his “Asguardians of the Galaxy” are reunited line. As it’s a pretty good new comic series starring Thor’s half sister Angela from “Heaven” which is actually a Neil Gaiman created character for Todd McFarlane’s Spawn and made canon by Marvel; then at some point {JS probably knows} they went and made her as Thor’s lost sister. Which I think is awesome.)

    If you would’ve told 15yr old me 30yrs ago that I’d be more hyped and gratified by a Marvel Avenger’s movie instead of a Star Wars one for my “cosmic fantasy” fix, I would’ve laughed and said you were out of your god damn mind, but here we are.

    I don’t know if any sci-fi/fantasy can top the epic-ness of Avengers: IW & Endgame.

    As for Tony and Nat’s death’s; how many times have these actual characters died and come back in the comics? More than once.

    If Downey’s star ever fades enough, or he decides he wants to put on the iron suit again, I’m sure he and Feige and Markus/McFeely will come up with something. They might even find a way to reverse Nat’s death for her film. They went cosmic and brought Infinity stones into the MCU. Anything is possible.

  25. Greg says:

    JS, Brie is great in other movies but I thought she was meh in Cap. Marvel and borderline terrible in this one. Still a great movie though.

  26. Js Partisan says:

    I totally disagree. Brie is wonderful, as a woman who doesn’t flinch from a head butt.

  27. Amblinman says:

    That doesn’t work a second time. Time heist is a total dud. Last battle is the whole movie.

  28. leahnz says:

    can i sue the russo bros for the loss of two and a bit hours of my life (i knew – as in guessed, managed to avoid spoilers – tony was gonnna kark it so bummer, girded my loins for that one)

  29. Amblinman says:

    @Leah no, you cannot. However: you can enjoy a small internet related victory over a rando you fought over a movie with:

    I couldn’t help but think while watching the big grrrrl moment in Endgame “Oh…no man’s land but…bigger and dumb. Shit. I think I was wrong.”


  30. Amblinman says:

    So lesbians of the punk rock variety enjoy Marvel movies!

  31. leahnz says:

    ha omg a small internet related victory! this is the mana of life (i understand the bit you mean)

    honestly, for the most part the movie was just kinda boring and low-key-melodrama-dull and poorly written and scattershot and weirdly-paced and -toned and uneven and dumb (obv the last act was not dull, i’ll give it that, finally a bit of pizazz and also fucking loud, i don’t think my hearing has returned properly yet), but there were aspects that were good. i’ll have to organise my thoughts better, still thinking about it.

    (probably the most superficially annoying aspect was the whole hawkeye thing, honestly, fuck hawkeye and his stupid family i don’t give a shit about because the character development wasn’t there and his useless legolas arrows and his new fluffy hair do, and natasha – who we’ve seen through thick and thin and a world of pain – is just, pfft)

    i’m tippling on cherry brandy so i’ll save further thoughts for when i babble less

  32. Hcat says:

    What I am hearing is pay for John Wick and after that’s done then slide into an Endgame showing 60 minutes before the end

  33. Sideshow Bill says:

    Leah’s Hawkeye rant is classic. I don’t totally agree but it made me chortle loudly.

    Don Cheadle sure does forgive Hawkeye pretty quickly after ranting against his violent actions.

    One other tidbit: it was the first movie I’ve seen in 3D in 7 years. After the initial thrill, about a half hour in, I didn’t even think about it, aside from a few moments. I’m over 3D, unless Cameron really brings it.

  34. Js partisan says:

    If you care about these characters, then it’s not a melodrama. It’s what you want from these characters. You hating Hawkeye is just… Budapest. Again, this is a once in a lifetime thing, and shitting on once in a lifetime is weird to me. Keep on being you all, but I’ll still find it weird. Time heist works, because of Tilda and Tom alone.

  35. Stella's Boy says:

    It’s not weird that people have different opinions about a movie. That is very normal.

  36. movieman says:

    Buena Vista

    4,662 $156,700,000

    — / $33,612
    $156,700,000 / 1

    Buena Vista

    2,435 $2,486,000

    +96.1% / $1,021
    $408,015,047 / 50

    Warner Bros. (New Line)

    3,372 $2,460,000

    +145.7% / $730
    $36,244,301 / 8


    2,913 $1,953,000

    +127.5% / $670
    $21,763,230 / 10

    5 SHAZAM!
    Warner Bros. (New Line)

    3,631 $1,520,000

    +142.1% / $419
    $127,149,727 / 22

  37. Js partisan says:

    SB, I find it weird, as someone who feels grateful about events you never ever see, that it’s weird to me to be ticky tacky about it. That’s my opinion. Respect it, and look at that gross.

  38. Stella's Boy says:

    I find it weird that you belittle other people for not liking a movie as much as you do. Talk about ticky tacky. Just my opinion though which I know you fully respect. And quantity does not equal quality. But obviously it’s an astounding gross. Very impressive to say the least.

  39. Amblinman says:

    The Russos straight up don’t have the goods to pull off the time heist. It wasn’t written all that interesting to begin with.

    And watching the climax for a second time in two nights, it struck me that Spielberg did a better job with an identical battlefield scenario in Ready Player One, right down to the myriad forces of pop culture joining to repel evil.

    It’s not a good movie. It’s a successful one though.

  40. Amblinman says:

    @Leah on US politics: if Dems are dumb enough to nominate Biden, you’re probably right. But it’ll be dealyed till 2024. Biden will win but he won’t have coattailes cause he’s just a Republcan who says mean things about Trump
    GOP will eat Biden for lunch for 4 years and then a smart version of Trump gets in, game over.

    The census question points to the fact that our supreme Court is officially over as a legitimate legal body. We need a new court.

  41. JS Partisan says:

    SB, it’s a load of bullshit, that you constantly pull this. It’s astonishing to me, that you ignore how considerate I am to you, and how I go out of my way to not belittle you, or anyone else, but I dare pipe up about something I love, and you start getting pissed at me.

    Seriously. We do not have to like one another, but I go out of my way to not give you shit, about a genre and films, that I probably wouldn’t like. You, for some reason, get a bug up your ass about this shit, and I find it continually puzzling that you do.

    Man, but it’s not a movie. It’s an event, and you criticizing filmmakers, who brought about the greatest event in cinema history, is equivalent to pissing in a hurricane. I see your point, but it’s not a movie. It’s a culmination, and they get special dispensation, and always will.

    And the RPO thing is just… every character in that scene in Endgame, is a character people know, and have spent some time with. They are only brands in RPO, but you are an amblinman after all. Good forbid you give something else a little shine :D!

    ETA: yeah, the Supreme Court has to be imploded, and a new chief justice seated. Roberts can stay, but he can’t be chief justice. Folks are going to have to vote like crazy in 2020.

  42. movieman says:

    Is it OK to talk about something besides “Endgame”?
    Not sure of the Hot Blog etiquette these days.

    I just watched “Under the Silver Lake” On Demand and really dug it.
    Trippy and cryptic, it feels so much like a Richard Kelly movie that it could’ve been a spiritual heir to “Southland Tales.”
    Speaking of Kelly, the fact that he hasn’t directed a film–or apparently done
    ANYTHING: not even a goddamned Netflix series!–in 10 years blows my freaking mind.
    So unfair.

  43. Js partisan says:

    Movieman, no bullshit, but I’ve been waiting for your take on Silver Lake. I like when you share your blurbs, so please keep sharing them.

    And Richard Kelly had to have done something. It’s the only explanation.

  44. Sideshow Bill says:

    The thing that has stuck most with me from Endgame is how Thanos accepts his defeat. He wanders wearily to find somewhere to sit. Doesn’t say a word . He is truly forlorn. Then dust. Brolin plays it so great.

    I’m gonna try to watch some stuff tonight , speaking of no -Avengers films. I have a lot to catch up on.

  45. Hcat says:

    I have been taking your recommendations on Lancaster and Hudson, and ya I can see how they were stars. Vera Cruz was pretty slick, and Pillow Talk was charming (if you can get past the horrid Mad Men sexual politics).

    I also rented Scottie and the secret history of Hollywood but didn’t finish it. Not a lot of there there. Fascinating subject but dull doc. Can’t imagine anyone would adapt the book.

  46. movieman says:

    JS- “Silver Lake” really does seem more like a Kelly movie than something by the director of my beloved “Myth of the American Sleepover” (which gets amusingly excerpted in “SL”) or “It Follows.”
    Even at 139 minutes, I was never bored or impatient w/ it: which is more than I can say about a lot of 90-minute movies these days.
    It suffered a fate similar to “Southland Tales:” both laid giant eggs at Cannes; had their release dates shuffled around multiple times; were threatened w/ judicious post-Croisette trims, etc.
    I’m pretty sure A24 kept it pretty much as it was in France last May, though. Good for them, especially since it’s clearly the type of film that seems downright antithetical to the way the movie business is run these days.
    According to Kelly’s IMDB page, he’s done zilch since “The Box.” You would’ve thought Megan Ellison might have given him a job by now.
    Hoping to catch “The Man Who Killed Don Quixote” and/or “J.T. Leroy” later this weekend: both of which are available On Demand.

    Hcat- You should check out Lancaster in “Atlantic City,” “Conversation Piece” (I rewatched it again last weekend: an unfairly maligned Visconti film), “Ulzana’s Raid” (lean and mean Aldrich at a time when most of his films, post-“Dirty Dozen,” suffered from serious bloat) and “The Swimmer” by the seriously underrated Frank Perry.
    If you haven’t gotten to Hudson’s Sirk movies (or “Giant”), what are you waiting for?!?!

    I gave Gus van Sant’s “My Own Private Idaho” another look last night: hadn’t seen it since 1991 when I admired, but didn’t love it. Maybe I wasn’t ready to appreciate its genius. This time was revelatory.
    It’s a Queer Cinema classic, and River Phoenix gives one of the single greatest performances in the history of movies.
    Phoenix’s work deserves to be mentioned in the same breath as DeNiro in “Taxi Driver” or Brando in “Last Tango.”
    Agree about “Scotty.” The doc felt redundant after the book, esp since the juiciest passages (e.g., Charles Laughton’s affinity for hustler-turd sandwiches!) are ignored.
    Scotty himself comes off as rather pathetic (if mysteriously well-off financially), and definitely someone with serious hoarder issues.

  47. Stella's Boy says:

    Under the Silver Lake is only $4.99 on VOD. Seems like it’s more than worth a watch. Going to try and watch it tonight. Looking forward to it.

    I was puzzled when Netflix dropped the extended version of Hateful Eight as four episodes but wanted to see the longer version so I started watching it only to read that it’s 27 minutes of credits and no actual additional footage. Lame.

    I want to see Ulzana’s Raid but can’t find it anywhere. Watched Man of the West recently. That’s a good one.

  48. Glamourboy says:

    JS hit it on the head when he said it was not a movie, it is an event. Exactly how I feel. As an event, my friends (especially the 15 year old who went with us)…were excited from the point they bought the tickets through seeing the crowd at the theater and heaving the applause the movie got when it started…and all the concern about seeing spoilers on social media. As an event, we had a great couple of hours. Then the movie started. And boy, is it ever slow and ponderous…with so much sitting around with the super heroes being depressed and sad…and doing everything other than being in action. I lost track of how many times there was a long debate of what they should do or whether they should do it. Interestingly enough, a few people walked out after about the first 90 minutes. There were lots of people in the theater checking their phones….and there were way too many characters to really service all of them. Yes, the battle sequences are good…but there was also a sense of each of the characters needing to come up to bat and have ‘their moment’. After the movie was over there was a sense of…..battle fatigue in the theater. People lumbered out. A stranger in the rest room was putting some eye drops in his eyes and looked at me and said….”Damn, that was long.” I think the biggest spoiler about the that the movie itself isn’t really that good.

  49. Amblinman says:

    No. Stop. You don’t get it. But Nat.

  50. movieman says:

    Yeah, I was surprised that “Silver Lake” was only $4.99, too.
    Usually they charge $6.99 if it’s D&D w/ “limited theatrical” (which is what I paid for the Terry Gilliam movie I just watched).

    “Don Quixote” is very good: easily Gilliam’s best work in more than two decades.
    I was relieved that it was as coherent as it was while still remaining “Gilliam-Fabulist” in the finest “Baron Munchausen”/”Brazil” tradition.
    Driver and Pryce are terrific, and the (large) supporting cast is excellent.
    It looks great, moves well and is whimsical without being arch or cloying.
    I was reminded of “The Life Aquatic” in that the whole thing is sort of an elaborate metaphor for the filmmaking process.

    I remember re-watching “Ulzana’s Raid”–which I hadn’t seen since my freshman year of high school–on Netflix a decade (or so) ago.
    That was back when the stuff streaming on Netflix was mostly interesting older movies with nary an “Original” in sight.
    Not even sure whether it’s been released on DVD: need to check on that.

    Can’t say that an “extended” version of “The Hateful Eight” excites me very much. It’s probably my least favorite Tarantino.
    I am jonesing to see “Once Upon a Time in Hollywood,” though. It’s probably the summer movie I’m most enthused about.

  51. Glamourboy says:

    I’ve always wanted to see Ulanza’s Raid…its high on my list of films I’ve wanted to see…is it good MM?

  52. Js partisan says:

    Glamour, and that’s your theater. I am a constant phone checker, and didn’t check it once. I walked out of a screening, and people were happy. Again, if you are down, then you’re good. If you’re not, then it might not be for you. It’s not as long as WrestleMania, and that will make you leave with some fatigue.

    It’s like people going on about three hours. Ha. Try fucking seven, and then have one of those matches be Randy Orton vs Bray Wyatt, and have that match feature stupid ring projection during it. Three hours is like a fucking party. Especially, when that bitch Thanos dies. Oh look. The Maw is getting dusted. Fuck you, Maw! Weak ass motherfucker!

    Man, Leah is right, but I fucking love Clinton, and his ass should have gone. Nat seemed spent though. Sure. She knew Namor’s ass was down there, but she was just through. I still don’t like her fucking movie being a prequel, and again… FEIGE HAS SOME SPLAININ TO DO.

  53. Pete B. says:

    ^ “Namor”?

    Now that could be interesting. We’ve already got Doctor Strange, Hulk, and Valkyrie. Marvel has the rights to the Silver Surfer now. I’d definitely be psyched for an original Defenders movie.

    I thought it was great that Endgame had a callback to all 21 movies that came before. That took some serious thought.

  54. GdB says:

    You know, I have zero taste or tolerance for The Grateful Dead, Phish or Bruce Springsteen. Wouldn’t listen to them if given a choice. That being said, I can appreciate why others love them all so much and can recognize their excellence and still not like their style of music. It is possible to do the same with film or any other creative work.

    I think if you look at Avengers IW & Endgame as one piece then the pace of the second one totally works. It does the main thing that everyone who loves Indie/Art cinema complain about “comic book” films never doing: Exploring the characters.

    Finally it does that and now it’s too slow? Give me a break. Take both films as a piece of work, you have a kick ass 5 1/2 hour movie with the perfect spot for an intermission.

    Man, I don’t know who keeps thinking the Russo’s are only craftsman like directors or can’t direct. They’re clearly not recognizing Russo’s exemplary mise en scene and how they fill the frame. When’s the last time you saw a Sci-Fi opera where every shot of space is bursting with color and still looks natural? How about the way they frame everything. It’s always epic and coherent. The lighting in both films is some of the best since TESB. How about the way the final battle still shows full frame, camera sweeping action with amazingly animated choreography, instead of Bourne Identity/LOTR incoherent rapid edit style action? How about the performance the one Russo brother gives in the recovery meeting scene? That dude acted the fuck out of that moment and put just about every other Hitchcock copycat cameo to shame. Sorry, those guys are just as good as the Wachowski sisters or Ridley Scott or any other respected director that has dabbled in the genre.

    The movie was the second part of a climax to a story that took place over 22 feature films. That is an impressive achievement.

    I can’t stop thinking about it. It’s the first film in memory I wish had a day and date home 4K release.

    Again, it is possible to appreciate the creative excellence of a work, by understanding the fundamental components needed to create such work without personally liking it.

    This movie hit the emotional beats and inner stakes lovers of indie, slower character dramas have clamored for and used as an excuse to condescend the genre. This movie does it in spades. The lead character sacrifices his own life so he can not only bring back the family he lost, but keep the current timeline so he doesn’t lose or erase the daughter he gained since. RDJ fucking knocked the performance out of the park and would’ve been recognized if it was some smart indie Aronofsky directed time travel movie. But because it’s Marvel and Iron Man it’s too slow.

    Why not just keep it real and say you’re never going to give these types of films a fair critical shake?

  55. movieman says:

    “Ulzana’s Raid” is very good, Glam.
    And it is available on DVD: I just reserved a copy from the library.
    Anxious to give it another look.

  56. Amblinman says:

    @GDB you’re just babbling. I have watched every minute of every marvel movie released. I find them mostly to be just okay with some exceptions pro and con. As for the Russos, I find them good for the most part but they couldn’t pull off what they were going for here.

    You don’t seem to allow that “It’s an incredibly successful franchise” and “it’s not a very good movie” can co-exist peacefully as reasonable thoughts.

  57. Amblinman says:

    Also…LOTR.battlefield set pieces were “incoherent”?

    Ahahahaha okay.

  58. Js partisan says:

    Man, because that’s how you can describe your X-men film franchise :D.

    Dismissing the Marvel Studio films, is still like… makes no damn sense, like hating the Grateful Dead, Phish, or the Boss. Shameful!

    All shooting the shit aside, this weekend’s gross demonstrates why 80 percent of the theaters were used, because there was demand by most of the moviegoers in the country. It’s a monumental achievement, and it’s the events like this distributors want. They want it really bad, and it’s not like they happen all the time.

  59. Amblinman says:

    You wish I cared enough to hate them.

  60. Js partisan says:

    Man, it made 350m/1.2bn in a weekend. There’s a lot of people who are like me on the planet. I’m good.

  61. Js partisan says:

    Yeah, it is SB. The level of dumb in that article is off the fucking charts. It’s staggering in its fear mongering, but that’s what idiots who hate the MCU want to believe, Instead of seeing it for what it is… a stunning cinematic achievement.

    Seriously. Reading indiewire is bad for you … like vaping.

    All this aside. I have a question for all of you. How do you feel about the very real possibility, that everything is going to be behind a streaming service by 2021? It’s one of the reasons I’ve bought dvds again, because I just want to have the movies, and they are going to be harder and harder to watch in the future. Thanks to streaming being worse than cable.

  62. Stella's Boy says:

    Can’t it be a stunning cinematic achievement and not great for the business? That’s not the only place making that argument.

  63. Js partisan says:

    And that argument is weak sauce. Anyone making that argument, is trying to shit on people’s enjoyment. I think this tweet sums it up.

  64. movieman says:

    April 26-28, 2019

    1 N Avengers: Endgame BV $350,000,000 – 4,662 – $75,075 $350,000,000 – 1

    2 4 Captain Marvel BV $8,051,000 -11.6% 2,435 -218 $3,306 $413,580,047 – 8

    3 1 The Curse of La Llorona WB (NL) $7,500,000 -71.5% 3,372 – $2,224 $41,284,301 $9 2

    4 3 Breakthrough Fox $6,304,000 -44.1% 2,913 +89 $2,164 $26,114,230 – 2

    5 2 Shazam! WB (NL) $5,520,000 -66.5% 3,631 -552 $1,520 $131,149,727 $100 4

    6 5 Little Uni. $3,438,000 -58.7% 2,119 -548 $1,622 $35,846,255 $20 3

    7 6 Dumbo (2019) BV $3,239,000 -51.1% 2,380 -845 $1,361 $107,005,558 $170 5

    8 7 Pet Sematary (2019) Par. $1,290,000 -73.5% 1,655 -1,491 $779 $52,612,457 $21 4

    9 8 Us Uni. $1,141,000 -72.6% 1,255 -1,009 $909 $172,844,635 $20 6

    10 12 Penguins (Disneynature) BV $1,051,000 -54.0% 1,815 – $579 $5,721,426 –

  65. Stella's Boy says:

    Sure yes by all means enjoy the success but that doesn’t make the argument wrong. I’ve seen people say they like the movie and think it’s maybe not so great for the business. Both can be true.

  66. Js partisan says:

    No, they can’t, because one is assuming that Endgame succeeding fucks the rest of the business. That’s fucking dumb, because it ignores one simple fact: people seeing movies in a theatre, with all the choice in the world, is fucking amazing. It’s fucking whining from coastals, that something they don’t like is succeeding. It’s totally fucking dumb, because I may want the warriors to lose, but guess what? The league is better for it, like the movie business is better having this than not.

    Go read the past blogs before the Avengers. Look at those shit fucking films coming out, during the Summer. Now? Something that gets people excited to SIT IN THE DARK is bad? Really? If you love movies, this should make you happy, that this is fucking possible. Events like this are still possible, and that’s amazing to me.

    If it bums you out, then what’s the point of any of this?

  67. GdB says:


    Funny, I wasn’t even thinking of you in my response. Which is pretty coherent. I’m going to take your judgement of babbling as a failure of reading comprehension on your part. Which is too bad as I’m usually in agreement with your posts.

    Yep. You put the fight sequences in FOTR against Endgame and you have quick cutting incoherent, Bourne Again style of action whereas the Russo’s stage and frame their action like a classical Hollywood musical. By the last LOTR movie it was better; but you still didn’t have a long virtual tracking shot that showcased action from every hero like you did in the Endgame. Though it’s fair to refute that claim due to tech limitations back when ROTK was made.

    When the super hot/popular girls I went to HS with who wouldn’t give a shit about comics or Star Wars or anything when we were kids (and liking such may even have cost you a date) are raving about Endgame along with their kids on FB and IG, that is cinema that is going way beyond it’s core audience and getting people to theaters.

    Some of you sound like those who thought they were cultural elites in Shakespere’s time who used to shit on his work and called it modern day trash. You just can’t recognize quality work when viewing everything with a snobby insouciance.

    If you want to act culturally superior and have it count, say you took that $25 that was to go to an Endgame ticket and instead donated it to an animal shelter or something. Then you’ll at least have my respect instead of me rolling my eyes at why some Sundance bullshit has more artistic merit than a successful serial narrative told over 22 feature films and ten years; something never done before in modern or post modern cinema, culminating in climactic closure that put more audiences in seats on an opening weekend more than any other film in history.

  68. Stella's Boy says:

    Not sure who you’re calling snob, but my ideal Friday night is candy and snacks and a beer or two and Joe Bob Briggs on Shudder. There’s no need to be so defensive. Some people don’t love a movie as much as you do. No big deal. No one’s attacking you personally. I mean hot girls from high school love it. What other vindication is needed?

  69. GdB says:

    The fact that you think I’m feeling personally attacked or defensive over this movie is such an astounding failure of tone and tenor, it just again shows how electronic communication has fucked us all.

    If anyone wants to go back and actually read what I said, I believe I didn’t give anyone shit for not liking the movie. What I did, was call out the hypocrisy of saying the pace of the film is too slow; because the movie took time to explore the emotional state of the characters, when not doing so, has been the biggest critique of the comic book genre by the art house crowd. Which demonstrates that there are some who are never going to give these kinds of movies a chance.

    The fact that you and Amblinman think I’m addressing you directly says you guys are not reading what I’m saying closely enough. Idgaf if you guys didn’t like the film. That’s your right.

    What I will do is call out bullshit critique’s from wannabe art house snobs who have always demonstrated a personal agenda against a certain genre simply because one does not like another blog participant who champions said genre.

    ETA: DP knows I’ve been coming here as long as the OG’s but under diff names over the years. I wouldn’t be coming back and keep participating in these debates if I didn’t legitimately not only respect the opinions of everyone on here, but actually value them, whether I agree or not. And that includes those I’ve had the most static with.

    There is no better place to have a real critical discussions about movies, period. And while I may get irritated by some of you, that’s only because I genuinely respect everyone’s opinion here.

  70. Stella's Boy says:

    I fail to see how someone is a wannabe arthouse snob for not liking Endgame. Unless that’s not what you’re saying. Apologies if I misread you.

  71. brack says:

    Endgame is easily the best MCU film for me. Doesn’t feel like a three hour movie. The first hour is deliberately “slow”, though that’s a superficial way of describing it. It gives the events of Infinity War actual weight, that what happened mattered, especially when we got “five years later.” For a grim movie, it’s quite funny.

    The time heist felt like a better version of Back to the Future Part II. I can understand the criticism of the handling of Hulk/Banner, as it kind of felt like an afterthought, and we were told and not shown. Outside of that everything clicked. Definitely the most emotional of any of the MCU films, but all of those moments are well earned.

    The final hour and huge battle were beyond awesome. Thor showcasing once again that he was the God of Thunder without having to have his god weapons, as well as Cap worthy of welding them, are definitely the highlights of the fight, but the whole fight was almost worth the price of admission. I’m not too sure we’re going to see Tony or Nat in future films (outside of her prequel movie). Certainly not Cap, but the way they were handled (well, Nat kinda got screwed), I think should carry over and for the characters to have to deal with veteran leaders gone and having other take the lead of the group.

    I plan on seeing this a few more times in theaters.

  72. Amblinman says:

    Don’t apologise, Stella. He seems mid-breakdown.


    “All this aside. I have a question for all of you. How do you feel about the very real possibility, that everything is going to be behind a streaming service by 2021? It’s one of the reasons I’ve bought dvds again, because I just want to have the movies, and they are going to be harder and harder to watch in the future. Thanks to streaming being worse than cable.”

    Oh? You mean there’s a down side to your giant megacorps co-opting all avenues of distribution? Maybe just maybe that had a *little* to do with people staying “Gee, maybe one fucking movie making all the money is a symptom of a larger truth vs just a victory for Captain America!”

    Seriously. It does not get more tone deaf and stupid than you waxing poetically about what a giant win this is for cinema while whining that you may have to hoard DVDs because Disney is going to make accessing your Cinematic Event Movies that much more expensive and difficult.

    PS: to the genius that insisted Avengers was chosen “out of all those other options”; right: they could choose the 8am Endgame showing…or the 9am…or the 10am…or…

    The film’s financial success is not organic. Stop acting like this is your first movie rodeo.

  73. GdB says:

    That’s not what I’m saying at all. No one is an arthouse snob for not liking Endgame. There’s actually several comic book nerds who aren’t happy with the movie because they didn’t like how the characters were portrayed or the choices they made or didn’t understand how the time travel worked. I don’t agree with them, but I can see why they feel the way they feel.

    What I am saying is this, and let me try to be as specific as possible:

    The common complaint from the Sundance crowd about comic book movies is that they are all plot and spectacle and never take time to explore the inner emotional lives of the characters and because so, they are not worthy of consideration as works of high culture art and therefore deserve to be qualified as low culture creative output not worthy of respect. This is the biggest argument continually made as to why Marvel movies are truly schlocky B pictures instead of a Sundance/Caan type adored A picture.

    Now you have a film in the genre release a three hour cut, cutting down the number of shows per day and profit intake, solely so the complete first hour can slow down and explore the emotional lives of the characters and the trauma the’ve endured from the last film and trying to move past it. So, in essence, you have a comic book movie that answers this critique in spades.

    And when it does, what happens? a few on here (not all) and elsewhere seemingly from the Sundance crowd complain about the pace of the movie when always raving about slow ass Sundance/Caan art house shit?

    Give me a break. I’m wondering aloud if those people saying that are inherently biased against the genre; are unable to look or appreciate the formal elements brought together for the parts that do qualify as excellence in the work, while still not liking it? It seems some can’t. I hope and want to be wrong on that and would like to be proven so.

    Because the pace of the film as an excuse to not like it when you tailor to slower Sundance movies in general, when the pace and length is so exactly so the work can explore character; that just feels like a disingenuous double standard that deserves to be called out. Those who feel that way are entitled to because it’s their feelings. But it also demonstrates a double standard that affects credibility.

    I fucking hate the movie Titanic. But I’ll be the first to concede that the moment the ship hits the ice to the last shot of Rose entering heaven on the stairs, that is some excellent, monumental, ground breaking filmmaking. Even though I think the work as a whole sucks ass.

    It is possible to not like something but still recognize the excellence in its composition. And when you apply a double standard like complaining about pace to explore character, it demonstrates that perspectives from some are not truly open minded. And an open mind is the true sign of any real connoisseur of high art and culture. That’s all I’m saying.

    ETA: @Amblinman – You’re discrediting your past history and demonstrating a low EQ by trying to pin a tone of a mental breakdown on me because we disagree on the work and I’m using cogent points that you take personally when not even addressed to you. Class it up man, you’re ruining my years long respect for you.

  74. movieman says:

    I guess Lucas/Spielberg’s prediction that, in the future, everything but non-event type movies would solely be the province of streaming services will become true earlier than expected.
    I watched three On Demand movies this weekend (a record for me): “Under the Silver Lake,” “The Man Who Killed Don Quixote” and “J.T. LeRoy.”
    All were very good or better (“Silver Lake”).
    None were playing at a theater anywhere remotely near me.
    Am I sad that I didn’t have to leave the house to see them at a multiplex with obnoxious commercials/trailers and annoying, iPhone-abusing fellow patrons?
    Not in the least.
    Will I miss “The Theatrical Experience” one day?
    Only as it exists in my childhood memories of honest-to-Jehovah movie palaces (“Cathedrals of Cinema” as I call them).
    21st century multiplexes have as little to do with “The Theatrical Experience” as
    commercials for Coke and upcoming NBC series.

  75. Amblinman says:

    “ETA: @Amblinman – You’re discrediting your past history and demonstrating a low EQ by trying to pin a tone of a mental breakdown on me because we disagree on the work and I’m using cogent points that you take personally when not even addressed to you. Class it up man, you’re ruining my years long respect for you.”

    You’ve been ranting at everyone for being “snobs” because we didn’t like the 3 hour superhero movie as much as you did. What cogent points have I missed? That even hot girls like Avengers movies? My friend, there is no response to that.

    You sound like a crazy person.

  76. Js partisan says:

    Man, you’re always fun in these debates, but I’m not hoarding dvds. I’m getting movies I like, because it will be nice to have the around. Seeing as I’m not really in the mood to give Comcast any monthly money.

    Again… I don’t care, and go Dodgers.

  77. leahnz says:

    “ETA: DP knows I’ve been coming here as long as the OG’s but under diff names over the years.”

    re movieman’s comment above:
    y’all should come to the movies here, it sounds like cinema du mad max where you are (i mean it’s not perfect here, sometimes people talk and packets crinkle and kids run around and cry like little shits but this has always been the case as long as i can remember; occasionally someone will look at their phone with the distracting glare and worst comes to worst you say, “i’m a goldfish and the light is distracting can you please not” and they put it away sheepishly). honestly the biggest deterrent here for the general public is the exorbitant ticket prices; we had a span of a couple years after our big quake where several of the bigger cinemas did $10 tickets all the time (because one of them did and the others had to complete) and i read that ticket sales increased by like 40%; now it’s back to fucking 36 bucks per ticket and staying home in your dags with bathroom & bong breaks looks a lot more appealing.

    “The film’s financial success is not organic.”


  78. Sideshow Bill says:

    I consider myself an art house “snob” and a fan of genre junk. I think most people here will say the same.

    I just wanted to get that in. I’m an equal opportunity offender.

  79. Hcat says:

    Wow, step out for some yard work…..

    I agree with what the indiewire article is saying but they completely screw the argument. First off Mortal Engines and Hellboy were not sacrificed under the wheels of Avengers, they just flat out stunk. Secondly you cannot blame the Avengers or Disney for the 15% lag in the box office. You cannot complain that one studio makes all the hits and then complain that their hits aren’t hitty enough. You want to point fingers look at the difference in total gross between Quiet Place and Pet Sematary, Sony’ lack of a nine digit grosser, there’s the deficit. They don’t even mention the one example that proves their thesis which was Disney’s behavior with their first Star Wars film which left theater owners pissed. Yes Disney has too much power at the moment, but that article was nonsense.

    JS, perhaps this is the biggest event in comic history, but movie history? Isn’t this sort of an inflation adjusted Dark Knight result. Massive achievement, will be talked about reverently, but will fade into the crowd.

    GDB I get what you are trying to say but comparing Marvel to Shakespeare? Cmon

    JS your DVD strategy is sound because it’s not just that content will be behind different paywalls, it’s likely it will not be there at all. If the studio thinks some catalog film might be problematic or simply too niche kiss it goodbye. Disney announced something like 600 films on their streaming site when it launches. I would wager half of them will be television titles and dtv air buddie crap.

  80. Js partisan says:

    HC, you thinking this is like TDK. Demonstrates you not really seeing the board, but the pieces. There has never been anything like this. The culmination, has not happened, and will not happen again. This is it. Hell. No one remembers TDK anymore. I do love that movie, but why don’t they remember it? Iron Man. Seriously. This blog has never quite grasped what these movies are, and has basically been nothing but eleven years of constant belittling of them. It’s been going on since weekend one, so it’s nothing new.

    Still, this movie could be up to two billion in ONE WEEK OF RELEASE, but it’s going to fade. Sure. It’s not, because unlike Avatar. These movies mean something rather you all like them, hate them, or love them.

    HC, you nailed why that Indiewire article is just… vaping.

    And wow, GoT shit the fucking bed. Arya is great, there’s always moments, but what a fucking deflating piece of entertainment. The Great War was one battle, and now Cersei? GTFOH, GoT.

  81. Hcat says:

    I remember TDK, it was the biggest event in movie history, until the next one. A fuzzy memory makes everything historic.

  82. Js partisan says:

    No. It was something, because it was the first movie since Titanic to do it. You seem to think this is about us, and you always do that, it’s about the young people, and 2008 is Iron Man to them. Again. Again. Again. They have a place in the psyche of millions of people, and that’s it for me trying to explain it to you people :D.

    Oh yeah. Last week’s GoT, was a good episode of anything. That’s the reason Winterfell fell flat to me, because it just didn’t pay it off. Arya can only do so much.

    Also, I need to get the Big Picture on something. While HC, those 600 movies are a lot of touchstone, so that’s a plus.

  83. Glamourboy says:

    GoTs episode is going to go down in history as one of the best battle episodes ever….I was on the edge of my fucking seat the entire made Avengers seem like a piddily bedwetter. Damn, now that is how you do it. This and last week’s episodes are going are now gold standards.

  84. Amblinman says:

    “I remember TDK, it was the biggest event in movie history, until the next one. A fuzzy memory makes everything historic.”

    Precisely. And at least TDK is still referred to as a classic. Watching Endgame, I was remdinded of how much flotsom MCU has produced. The original.Avemgers movie looks cheap and shitty.

    I tend to hate box office conversations (this place has always been more interesting when the lunatics running the asylum DON’T obsess over BO) but the more I think about it, Endgame’s haul isn’t that big of a deal. Disney spent 11 years priming the pump. Between owning all the screens and using every avenue available, this was almost as inevitable as Thanos. Thinking about other BO milestones like Cameron’s evil twins of Avatar and Titanic, what those films achieved was a little more organic. There was no IP for Avatar that people were familiar with. And a 3 hour movie about the Titanic should never have been good BO fodder.

    GOT sucked. #AryaWinslol is dumb af. And if I can’t see what’s happening, it’s neither exciting not dramatic.

  85. leahnz says:

    the problem with the whole ‘criticising endgame for being dull/badly paced/boring/slow/scattershot in tone for much of the time is hypocritical because finally the big superhero movie is slowing down for indie character moments that the snobs criticise superhero movies for NOT having!’ argument is that it’s basically bullshit.

    for example, going back to the start and what is arguably the marvel universe’s inception, ‘iron man’, the lynch pin of that entire movie is the slow character-building arc in the cave wherein tony’s relationship with yinsen, in simple terms teaches him empathy, specifically for someone he’d previously consider an ‘other’, and how his company and weapons of war indiscriminately hurt people and not just the ideological ‘bad guys’. tony’s epiphany – the emotional core of the movie – is believable and emotional because within the context of a superhero movie it’s written and executed with some nuance and a deft hand, without heavy-handed melodrama; it feels natural, not contrived (in other words, good film-making). there are quite a few examples of slowing down for quiet, effective character moments in the marvel movies that are achieved in a natural, compelling way.

    one of the problems with endgame is how contrived and forced many of the slower ‘character moments’ feel, and how awkwardly weaved they are into the narrative, particularly the time heist concept. while it probably would be possible to inject slower character moments/development into the narrative for the sake of closure in a compelling, natural-feeling way, the movie would have to be much better written/constructed and directed so that many of the slow beats and boo-hoo moments don’t feel shoe-horned in for the sake of it, one-note heavy-handed, narratively convenient and cliche (natasha, to motivate all the dudes to keep going!), and at times downright silly.

    the issue isn’t slowing down for character stuff, in theory this is good, it’s how awkwardly, clumsily and one-note melodramatic (or two-note if you add in silly) it’s done. for die-hard marvel geeks seeking closure i think these moments have a low bar to clear, just the fact they exist is enough.

    as someone who has grown quite fond of some of the characters over the years and seen all (i think…) the marvel movies at some point or another, a few of which are proper good movies, criticizing the dull, sub-par film-making in much of ‘endgame’ is entirely justified. and hitting people over the head with FAMILY! and IT SUCKS WHEN PEOPLE YOU CARE ABOUT DIE! is really not thematically compelling.

  86. BO Sock Puppet says:

    Thunderball sold 74,000,000 tickets in 1965-66. Nobody thinks much of it now.

  87. Stella's Boy says:

    Yeah thanks HBO for spending tens of millions of dollars on a feature-length episode of TV that no one can see. That was nuts. I worried it was my television but then I got on social media and realized no one could see a damn thing. That was quite frustrating. And the 78 instances of almost killing a major character only to have them miraculously rescued at the last second was also annoying. Disappointing episode.

  88. movieman says:

    Who else thought last night’s “Barry” was the single best episode to date?
    Fantastic work by Bill Hader behind (he directed as well) and in front of the camera.
    That grocery store finale was truly epic.

    Agree w/ Amblin about GOT, though.
    Between the overly (absurdly) frenetic cutting and a color palette so DARK I thought I was wearing 3-D glasses, it damn near wiped me out.
    And I’ve always thought GOT was at its best during the extended battle sequences.

  89. Stella's Boy says:

    Barry was pretty great. The feral child was quite something and Hader did a nice job behind the camera. He and Stephen Root are just fantastic together. Good show.

  90. Amblinman says:

    “and hitting people over the head with FAMILY! and IT SUCKS WHEN PEOPLE YOU CARE ABOUT DIE! is really not thematically compelling.”

    This dovetails with your point about the writing: why would I care about a movie in which the rules of death are clear: there ain’t none. How seriously am I supposed to take any dramatic enterprise in which the goal is to bring back half of all life in the universe because “Nat dies(!)”? And we see Gamaora later, who “died” the exact same way, undercutting ANNNNY idea that Black Widow is really gone. As to why THIS TIME THEY MEAN IT? Cause Haweye says “I dunno! She’s gone!!”. But but it’s really sad when a character everyone loves dies…when we know she has a movie coming out in a year or whatever.

    You were much more articulate in your breakdown but the writing isn’t there. It reminds me of The Walking Dead. The showrunners think they’re creating all these character moments, but they simply don’t have the skill to make them work.

    Case in point: the GRRRL power moment. So fucking tone deaf. Why does the most powerful hero in the known universe need anyone’s help to get through a battle field she can FLY OVER? If they want to make that statement, there are a billion under powered dudes who need the help.

  91. Hcat says:

    JS, yes there will be some PG and PG 13 touchstone in there so people can be reacquainted with Arachnophobia, Turner and Hooch, and Phenomenon. All perfectly fine no heavy lifting viewing which is exactly what you want plenty of in a streaming service. But Touchstone only goes back to 84. Disney will have 4 thousand fox films, 3k of which were produced before the ratings system and therefore suitable for their family friendly streaming service. Those are the ones I am worried about. Where do the heritage titles go?

    And do people not like Thunderball? I thought it was still better regarded than My Fair Lady which was the other monster hit of that year.

  92. Hcat says:

    “it’s about the young people”

    Oh fuck young people, TDK’s success was about young people too and they got old. These young people that you refer to will be replaced with by the next generation as well and this achievement will be another chapter (I was going to write footnote but that would be too dismissive) in film and box office history. The culmination has never happened before? Sure it has, with the Avengers it weaved multiple films together and teamed them up and we oooed and awed at the box office and golf clapped at the achievement and now they have done it again and again on a bigger scale. And its not nothing but how much reverence is required?

    I can acknowledge and not applaud a perfectly executed corporate strategy.

  93. Js partisan says:

    HC, and no it hasn’t. Again. I’m over this debate. It’s done, it’s over, and the box office tells the tell. The way the world think of these films. Tells the tale. Keep punching the cement blocks people. I’m good.

    SB, apparently Glamour has a fancy ass TV, that has amazing fucking contrast. It’s insane, that we couldn’t see the battle. It’s also insane, that this show did the equivalent of this: “Congrats on killing Thanos. Now, come to my office, and let us discuss the Sokovia accords.” Seriously. It’s like, they built this up in the first scene of the first episode, and the pay off is dimly lit, poorly framed, and cheaply executed.

  94. Sideshow Bill says:

    I also had no problem seeing things on GOT. I found the darkness immersive. The editing? Not so much but I still enjoyed it.

    The dragon flight scenes were a bit incomprehensible at times. But overall I find it curious that so many have trouble with the lighting. Not doubting anyone. It’s a legit gripe. But it’s not like it was AVP: REQUIEM. That’s completely unwatchable, for a lot of reasons

  95. Stella's Boy says:

    Oh on my TV it was definitely AVP: Requiem. And based on what I’ve read it was for a whole lot of other people, too. I could not see a damn thing. Alan Sepinwall said the first hour is like a radio drama and that’s how it was for me. Not sure how to explain it. I know it’s not my TV as this has never been an issue with anything else I’ve watched since I got it.

  96. Glamourboy says:

    It wasn’t about seeing every part of the battle…for me I felt completely immersed into battle….the blur of it all, how impossible it is to make out…it was terrifying. And it was one of the most exciting nights I’ve ever seen in an episode. This remains a ground breaking show and I love how it completely wiped out the Avengers hype…at least on my social media, Monday morning has all been about GoT. Avengers battle scenes in contrast were grade school…yes, you could see everything…and every super hero character had their own ridiculous moment…like a slow baseball game where you wait for each player to come up to bat. And I agree with Leah completely…slowing down a super hero movie isn’t necessarily a bad thing, when it is handled well. This one was screenwriting 101….Hey Ironman we’re going to build a time machine (dear God)….Ironman walks away…and screenwriting 101 promises and delivers that he’s going to show up at the exact moment with a motherfucking time machine. Eeeks. Just because a super hero stares out the window doesn’t mean that anything interesting is going on inside their heads. Maybe its just me, but when a movie hits to the lowest common denominator and everyone goes out to see it, that’s a sign right there that it can’t be too smart or too good. And I’m not a snobby Sundance kinda guy…I love mainstream entertainment, when it works.

  97. Js partisan says:

    Like what you like, but I told my wife, as soon as I saw it was at night, that we were in for a shit night. It wasn’t anything you stated, but I’m glad someone got something from it. I just got a mouthful of sokovia accords.

    What I find funny, is that you, or anyone would think, that GoT is in the same ballpark as Avengers. It’s not.

  98. Hcat says:

    The young kids think it’s all about GOT. And it’s all about them.

  99. Js partisan says:

    Uh huh. Hush your mouth, Ohio. GO MICHIGAN!

    That aside, the whole argument above, is really funny, because of one thing: Marvel paid off their biggest villain, and GoT had to get theirs, “Out of the way.” That’s just…

  100. Stella's Boy says:

    Indeed The Night King and his army were easily disposed of after many years of building them up as the biggest, baddest, deadliest thing ever.

    I don’t think it’s either/or. GoT and Avengers can both be enormously popular and culturally relevant. What’s trending on Twitter isn’t exactly the whole story. Plenty of people love both. I saw more comments than I can count about seeing Endgame and GoT on the same day and what a great day that was.

  101. MarkVH says:

    The Great War Against The Dead was literally one battle. Took about an hour and a half. Heavy sigh.

    It’s clear at this point that Benioff and Weiss aren’t really up to the task of finishing this story in a way that honors the story Martin set out to tell (though, to be fair, neither is Martin) so they’re basically just leaning into the safest possible way to wrap it all up. Which means book readers and non-book-readers (of which I’m one) alike end up disappointed and wondering what might have been if only he would have FINISHED THE DAMN BOOKS.

  102. Js partisan says:

    Yeah. George RR Martin will actually pay this shit off. Wait til he announces, he already has, and was just waiting for the show to end. The lack of selling the fantasy, is what really just turns me off. Watch them kill the dragons, and watch me be happy, that this is just an adaptation.

    This aside: rest in power, John Singleton. Fuck strokes. Fuck that bullshit. He had a lot more to say, and 51 is way too soon.

  103. Amblinman says:

    I wonder what your punk rock lesbians friends would have thought of John Singleton.

    Hcat: yes! I don’t understand the idea of insisting Avengers achieved something new under the sun. This shit will be broken by the next Avatar or Avengers film. It’s like Trump voters insisting we were in a recession prior to Trump’s term. There’s no acknowledgement of reality or context. But but A BILLION DOLLARS.

  104. Js partisan says:

    They’d probably really like him, because they were all about that 21 Bridges trailer. Now. If you want to get catty,, then keep on going.

    Oh you did keep going. No. It’s not. You’ve never been a part of it, so you are completely out of touch with it. Seriously. Oh look. Let’s compare it to a deranged psychopath, because that always makes you look really serious.

    Again. You, or anyone who agrees with you, are not acknowledging reality or context.

  105. Amblinman says:

    Sorry, the punk rock lesbian thing is gonna be fodder for me for a while for shits and giggles. Liberal male sexism and homophobia are literally hilarious to me. The intended targets, not so much.

    On avengers: you’ve been arguing feelings, and demand they be taken as facts. And when cornered, you essentially scream “WHO WAS ELECTED PRESIDENT (referring to box office)?? ANSWER ME THAT! THATS ALL THAT COUNTS.”

  106. palmtree says:

    Endgame’s attempt at drama came off as an attempt. Some of it worked, but some felt drawn out. They had aspirations for indie drama feels, but it was not uniformly successful.

    I felt more feels in GOT but agree the battle itself didn’t have enough consequences. Overall it was a great weekend for watching stuff.

  107. Sideshow Bill says:

    Change of subject:

    Watched I Trapped The Devil Saturday night. I’d really been looking forward to it. Not sure if I completely like it. Set-up and pay-off are good. Performances are fine and it was tense and claustrophobic. But I didn’t like either of the characters and didn’t really know much about them beyond superficial things. I’ll probably watch it again because it deserves a second look but I look forward to Stella and the other horror folks chiming in.

    John Singleton’s death just sucks. The man created/kick started a genre. And he was a very ambitious filmmaker. I don’t think Higher Learning completely works but it was a swing.

  108. palmtree says:

    RIP John Singleton. 51 is too young.

  109. palmtree says:

    Or perhaps I should have said “2 young.” (F&F fan over here.)

  110. Amblinman says:

    I think one of the most underrated aspects to Singleton is how good a pure director he was. Shaft comes across as so effortless, so tight. I know his career highs were better than Shaft, but I have so much respect for directors that can slip on a genre hat so easily.

  111. Js Partisan says:

    Man, they literally were a lesbian couple, who were punk rockers. Again, these aren’t feelings. It’s a reality, that’s hurting your feelings. Did you catch what I did there? Probably not, but you keep on being in a mood, because your feelings can’t handle a movie you don’t like, from a franchise you belittle, being the biggest entertainment property on earth. Order your Dark Phoenix tickets, and relax. You’re right on about Singleton though.

    Palm… that’s why you’ve always been a delight here. Post like the above.

  112. Amblinman says:

    I might see Phoenix, might not. So? Is your point that you’re kicking sand in “my” IP’s face or something like I have any investment in this beyond seeing a movie? Should I buy a ticket to Endgame and sneak into Phoenix so the cool kids don’t mock me? How far down the stupid-hole are you going here?

    On the punk rockers: you don’t understand that I’m making fun because you’re just virtue signaling without thinking about it. Those two people were into a movie you were into. You cis brain thinks “Oh man – even the lesbians love Marvel!’ but it would never dawn on you to ask your self…why wouldn’t lesbians like comic book movies? You think you’re being progressive. It’s just insulting and demeaning. It’s like when white people relate an anecdote, you always know if the story contains white people or poc because when it’s the latter, they make sure to tell you. “So this black guy walks up to me and…” If the guy is white: “So this guy walks up to me…”. Or:”I was sitting next to a couple, we had a blast!”…vs your version.

    But this is just good old implicit bias stuff that we all do. It’s your choice as to whether you learn from what I just explained to you though.

  113. Amblinman says:

    After you read that, keep in mind how they’ve been playing the Daenarys/Jon dynamic lately. The deck stacking has been kinda silly in how unsubtle it is.

  114. Glamourboy says:

    JS…what do you get from personal attacks on this board when people disagree with you? You’ve been doing it as long as you’ve been on these boards. It’s not cool and it’s not nice. It has almost gotten you booted off these boards in the past and I wish you’d stop.

  115. Js partisan says:

    So Man goes in about attacking people, for fucked up reasons, but I’m personally attacking? What? A personal attack is calling you a piece of fucking shit… and meaning it. All you are is a braggart, and someone who thinks they know box office. Mary Poppins.

    Again. Again. Again. What I find incredibly fucking galling about this post, is the same typical bullshit, that’s been going on for years. We have you, going on about me personally attacking people, we have the downplaying of world shattering events, and we have the name calling and insulting that Man does, that I never do. I don’t mince words, but it’s the same old shit, and guess what? Scoreboard DOES NOT LIE. It’s eleven years of success, but let’s still let some Man downplay it. Whatever. The people have proved you wrong. Good fucking day.

  116. amblinman says:

    Sure. Box office is quality. Eveyrone knows this. I think one thing we all agree on as film buffs is that no movie, no matter the pedigree of talent involved, can ever truly work unless it’s released by a multibillion dollar corp to coincide with the opening of the theme park based on it.

    @GB: good lookin’ out but whatevs. But: you can’t argue with a Trumpkin.

  117. Stella's Boy says:

    Js partisan says:
    April 19, 2019 at 11:33 pm
    I went back in the archives, and no wonder SB is always mad at me! I was so damn rude. Jesus.

  118. brack says:

    Sideshow Bill – I saw I Trapped The Devil. I liked it, but I agree, a couple of the characters were a bit clunky. Good atmosphere, creepy throughout. Great voice acting from you know who. A little unsatisfying in some ways, but a decent debut film from Josh Lobo.

  119. Glamourboy says:

    JS–I just took a few quotes from a few of your responses on this thread. Oh yeah, and SB’s above is pretty good too.

    It’s about giving your own opinion and not tearing someone else down, or reading someone in the process. Not a difficult concept. Perhaps you don’t even realize you’re doing it. But you do. When I talked to DP about it once he said he’d had NUMEROUS complaints about you and he had talked to you and considered tossing you off the board. So it’s not just me. And its certainly not Mary Fucking Poppins.

    Thanks for the flow of insults….can just add those to the list.

    It is kind of shocking to me that while we are calling out for racism, sexual predators, comments that they make online about gender politics…how aware we are all supposed to be…that old fashioned bullying goes unchallenged here. JS, you seem to continue to be the Mean Girls of the high school here who says whatever you want about everybody and you think it’s fine. It’s not. Yes, we’ve had this argument before and I’m going to continue to call you out on it.

    “Again, these aren’t feelings. It’s a reality, that’s hurting your feelings. Did you catch what I did there? Probably not, but you keep on being in a mood, because your feelings can’t handle a movie you don’t like, from a franchise you belittle…”

    “Oh you did keep going. No. It’s not. You’ve never been a part of it, so you are completely out of touch with it. Seriously. Oh look. Let’s compare it to a deranged psychopath, because that always makes you look really serious.

    Again. You, or anyone who agrees with you, are not acknowledging reality or context.”

    “HC, you thinking this is like TDK. Demonstrates you not really seeing the board, but the pieces.”

  120. David Poland says:

    I forget how much I love LeahNZ sometimes…

    Congrats to all of you hanging out together on this old wreck as it floats through the galaxy with Ray keeping the lights on.

    Hey… JSP… please bring it down a level. Offer an opinion. No one needs to know what you think of everyone else’s personality.

    Nice to see you.

  121. Js partisan says:

    Glamour, those aren’t insults. These are insults. He’s an asshole, who is acting the way that he thinks Im acting.and throwing a fucking fit over SOMETHING HE DOESNT LIKE SUCCEEDING. Look at his little fucking fit, and he’s trying to bully me. YOU ALL ARE. It’s insane, but guess what? Dave was going to scuttle this thing, then he didn’t. It wasn’t for your bragging about Paris, Boy. It’s like, you think things that aren’t personal are personal, so you fifty somethings discuss shit with yourselves.

    It’s like, you people are so far up your asses, that you don’t see how you are bullying me, and constantly do. Again, if anyone should be blocked, it’s most of you. Good fucking day,

  122. Js partisan says:

    This is a terrible way to end things, but you just couldn’t let me enjoy the win. You couldn’t do what I do for you all the time, because you matter enough to me, that I don’t curse you out, or insult your taste like you do mind. Over and over and over again. You couldn’t just be cool. You had to email Dave, over nothing. Absolutely nothing, and that’s fucking it. If you are going to be this fucking sensitive, when I take all of your shit? Well. I’m fucking done.

    It’s fucking enough. Things end, people move on, and it’s enough. Most of you, are just never going to get it, and I’ve had enough of being told it’s me. When it’s you. Take care, stay strong Bill, and SB there’s a lot going on, but your just a very straight laced decent guy. The rest of you are what you are. Adios.

  123. palmtree says:

    JS, I’ve always been fascinated by the guy with the insane commitment to fandom having his wildest predictions proved mostly correct. Weird times, sometimes totally wrong, but never dull.

  124. Pete B. says:

    Taking wagers on when the first “IO” comment appears…

  125. Amblinman says:

    “JS, I’ve always been fascinated by the guy with the insane commitment to fandom having his wildest predictions proved mostly correct. Weird times, sometimes totally wrong, but never dull.”

    He attached himself to two wildly popular IPs owned by the biggest entertainment corp on the planet.

    And then acted like he owned that shit. Fanboys arent fans.

  126. palmtree says:

    Amblin, I bristle at the “inevitability” argument. There’s no guarantee of success just because you have a huge company and high profile IP behind you. Look at the spectacular non-success of Justice League or Solo for just some recent examples. Big companies fail at doing fan service stuff all the time.

    More than that, this isn’t normal level success. $350m in a single weekend isn’t inevitable. It’s the culmination of a long-arching storyline that, believe it or not, is well-crafted. Again, today people don’t show up to theaters if they have something better on streaming. You have to earn that the hard way.

    Maybe you knew they’d do $350m in a single weekend a decade ago. I for one never believed Marvel could reach these current heights. I mean, now total grosses of $300m are the low-end of the spectrum and now they get into the $600m range on a consistent basis. For all his flaws, JS loudly believed this was going to happen. He was insufferable at times saying it, but he wasn’t wrong when so many were.

  127. amblinman says:

    YEah, don’t agree even a little, Palm. Yes, there are no guarantees in life but a mega corp aimed all of its considerable entertainment pipes in one direction for a decade. THe film was even called “Endgame”. And I don’t know what anyone was “wrong” about. Did people argue Endgame wouldn’t make any money?

    We can argue back and forth about the system and circumstances that brought Endgame to a billion dollars, but the issue with JS was nothing more than people getting tired of being browbeaten simply for not *loving* and heralding his fav IPs as the greatest cinematic achievements in the history of cinematic achievements.

    Every exchange:

    Sane human: THe movie was fine. A little long, but I had fun during the climax.

    JS: What you understand about Marvel and this film could fit in a fucking eye of a needle. This movie changes everything we know in the modern universe. Virgin women were made pregant! Men wept! Punk rock lesbians rejoiced!

    Sane human: …I liked it when Thor got fat. THat was funny.


    Like…every fucking exchange.

  128. Stella's Boy says:

    Yeah what were people wrong about. Was believing the MCU would be successful that rare of an opinion? I find that hard to believe but maybe it was. Or maybe here people were saying it wouldn’t be successful while he was always a true believer. That’s a pretty accurate exchange.

  129. Hcat says:

    This has happened with nearly every blockbuster for over the past decade and a half. He gets excited about a film takes the box office as an endorsement of his fandom and lashes at anyone who doesn’t accept the dogma. We gather here because we want to speak with other fanatics, aren’t we all here because we are a little TOO committed to watching movies, and we want to interact with others who are fascinated by the inside baseball of it all. So its perfectly legit to question what is good for the industry and how that is going to affect the future of films, but anything that is not a total submission to the sheer awesomeness of the properties he loves is treated as treasonous venom.

  130. Stella's Boy says:

    That sums it up very well Hcat.

  131. Hcat says:

    ” Was believing the MCU would be successful that rare of an opinion?”

    No, he is not remembering it completely wrong. There was plenty of skepticism at the beginning particularly regarding Thor and how magic would fit into Iron Man’s world. Personally I remember writing that I didn’t think that Avengers would significantly outgross Iron Man, and admitted I was off when it did. However most of the questions on whether they could pull it off happened A) after the weak Hulk movie B) when it was strictly Marvel as a privately funded production company releasing through the wobbly Paramount machine. Once Disney hoovered up the property (and guaranteed a single flop would not cripple the plan) questions dwindled down to whether Ant Man or Guardians were too deep a dive to be blockbusters. There have been criticisms but probably no worse that we have directed at the F&F and Star Trek franchises.

  132. Stella's Boy says:

    Yeah those Ant Man and GotG questions are the ones I remember. Post-Disney discussions. I can’t really recall what was being said in 2008. I’m sure there were some doubters back then.

  133. Hcat says:

    After Iron Man 2 they were 1 for 3 quality wise and Hulk had lost money and been outgrossed by Prince Caspian. Doubt was earned.

  134. MarkVH says:

    The thing I keep going back to regarding the fanboy MCU celebrating is the insane persecution complex that still exists, like they’ve never gotten over being the comic book nerds getting picked on in high school. The whole “you don’t understand, let me have this!” mentality is so tiresome for one reason:


    They won a long time ago. The MCU is now the dominant force in global popular cinema, as big as anything since Star Wars in the ’80s and probably bigger than that. There is no moment in the calendar movie year when there are not at least 2-3 superhero movies among the top five movies at the box office. Their preferred form of cinema now owns the global popular culture in a way that few things ever have.

    Yet they’re still so thin-skinned that any criticism of the films themselves or question about whether any of this is good for cinema is viewed as some kind of personal attack. Fandom is identity. You criticize the brand, you attack me. It’s like the high school nerd becoming a powerful CEO and using all his power to make life a living hell for the same people who bullied him in high school. It’s a weird kind of paranoia and fear that with enough criticism that their precious MCU is all going to go away and they’re going to go back to being that kid getting picked on in high school.

    Get the fuck over it. You won. It’s over.

  135. Stella's Boy says:

    Yeah that’s a good point. It’s really hard for me to remember those days and a time when there were real doubts about the success of Marvel movies. Just seems like it was always a given.

  136. Hcat says:

    They’re still obnoxious nerds, they didn’t win shit.

  137. palmtree says:

    Hindsight is 20/20, folks.

    “Did people argue Endgame wouldn’t make any money?”

    That’s a strawman argument. Obviously I’m talking about the degree of its success, not merely mild success but wild success. (Edit: 5-10 years ago the $350m range was my expectation of success given that only one of the Harry Potters even managed to get much further than that.) That they did $350m in a single weekend is a whole other level. It’s going to give Cameron a run, which not even Batman could do. Did any of you predict that? If so, then when? How long did it take you to come to that conclusion? Seriously, I remember reading a lot of comments from as recent as 3-4 years ago about how Marvel was going to be downhill from there, how superhero movies were unsustainable, and how it had already reached its peak. I’m just saying have some perspective.

    But hey, you hate the guy, and that’s totally fine. I get it. I’m not here to defend him, just to say I hope this blog survives. That’s all. Peace.

  138. Stella's Boy says:

    I don’t hate JS. I hate the way he argued about the MCU. It always, always brought out the worst in him. I got sick and tired of drawing his ire every time I opined on something Marvel. He sucked the joy out of this place for me and made it so that I sometimes pondered giving it up. But I love this place. I too want it to survive.

  139. Hcat says:

    Don’t hate him either, not a fan of his tendency to go to the mattresses over opinions and it sometimes brought the worst out in me. Who needs a friend who is great to get along with as long as you agree with them 100%? Do you put up with that in real life?

  140. palmtree says:

    “Hate” was probably the wrong word.

  141. Dr Wally Rises says:

    What Marvel have done brilliantly is create and sustain institutional goodwill, meaning that the audience will lap up creative decisions that would be looked at differently elsewhere. For example, onto the movie –

    Thor in Endgame is basically Luke Skywalker in The Last Jedi, right? Both couldn’t live with their perceived failure to prevent great tragedy. Both let themselves go unkempt, grew their beard and hair long. Both went into exile at an isolated coastal retreat far from anyone and anywhere. Both wouldn’t take help when offered and had to be coaxed into rejoining the fight. The difference is that Rian Johnson with The Last Jedi does at least try to find pathos and drama in Luke’s exile, but Thor’s malaise is pitched squarely at sitcom level up until his scene with Rene Russo nearly two hours into the movie. And yet, people damn near demanded a Congressional Inquiry over Johnson’s treatment of Luke Skywalker, while no one has raised a murmur to my knowledge over Thor in Endgame. ‘Cos it’s Marvel right, and the scoreboard don’t lie. Institutional goodwill.

    So what else did I take away? Glassy eyed stand-infront-of-this-greenscreen-and-look-at-this-marker cameos from senior movie legends (and is anyone else a bit pissed off that Redford’s perfectly fitting, elegiac planned farewell in ‘The Old Man and the Gun’ no longer stands as his final movie given his barely-there appearance in Endgame? That’s not as bad as Hackman going out with ‘Welcome to Mooseport’ rather than ‘The Royal Tenenbaums’, but still.). Robert Zemeckis’ ‘Back to the Future Part 2’. Steven Spielberg’s ‘Ready Player One’. Peter Jackson’s ‘The Battle of the Five Armies’ and ‘Return of the King’. Nicholas Meyer’s ‘Star Trek 6 : The Undiscovered Country’. Some agreeable snappy retorts, one or two genuinely moving reunions (Stark senior and junior) and farewells. The only scenes where I felt any sense of panic or threat were the opening archery scene, and Scott searching the names on the monuments. Performances were fine (Rudd and Karen Gillan being the surprise standouts). Overall, the movie left me with much the same pleasant, solid-seven feeling as most of the other movies from this all-conquering brand.

    Congratulations on all the satisfied audiences and that loot – all those records broken though, and it’s still reached fewer pairs of eyeballs in America than the first weekend streaming of ‘Bird Box’.

  142. Hcat says:

    ‘ people damn near demanded a Congressional Inquiry over Johnson’s treatment of Luke Skywalker’

    I agree that people overreacted, but there is certainly a difference in the two as people have had plenty of Rock and Roll Thor in the past few years so him being misanthropic is different than people catching up with Luke after decades and getting….that.

    And I will sheepishly admit I kinda liked Mooseport. Certainly not the swan song that Tenenbaums was, but it certainly wasn’t Heartbreakers. I think the AV Club did a whole list of people that went out with a whimper after hitting a late career high. Peter Sellers was the biggest casualty.

  143. Dr Wally Rises says:

    Jack Nicholson with How Do You Know? Sean Connery with LXG. Unless they come back, you never know.

  144. Stella's Boy says:

    Good thing Joe Pesci is doing The Irishman. Unless there are a lot of Love Ranch fans out there.

  145. Amblinman says:

    “It’s going to give Cameron a run, which not even Batman could do. Did any of you predict that? ”

    Ohhh Cameron…who JS has insisted is dead and buried because “no one cares about Avatar.”

    His arguments were dumb. You can’t plant a flag on box office and hand wave it away when it’s inconvenient to your fanboyism.

  146. Sideshow Bill says:

    I like JS. I like his passion. But his temperament got tiresome. I clashed with him a few times but i always just relented. Dude wasn’t changing his opinion no matter what. And that’s fine. But I come to this forum TO AVOID the temperamental, always means on the attack or defensive stuff. I’ve had enough of it. You don’t have to actually go insult or call names to be out of line. Your tone says it all JS seems to take the wrong tone a lot, and that’s why people feel attacked.

    Granted, many here give as good as they take. It seems like he sometimes gets egged on. But he’s a big boy and should know better.

    The world is hateful and shitty. Just try and fucking be nice about movies for heaven’s sake. My recent health problems have made very intolerant of unchecked negativity. Be nice. Let people enjoy something or not like something. Discuss it. Also, the phrase “scoreboard don’t lie” irritates me . Sorry JS. I also hated “Batman don’t quit.” But also hate peoples who say “warshing machine” or “jagwire.”

    Surprised nobody has brought up the rat in Endgame. That is the worst, laziest bit of writing in the whole thing. Still loved the movie but my eyes rolled back in my head when the rat freed Ant-Man

  147. palmtree says:

    Rat ex machina, fo sho.

    And more than that, Endgame glosses over a ton of things I wish they had time for. Speaking of Cameron, he would have given us more backstory on how the time heist worked and upped the stakes on the mission in the process.

    So many pivotal moments during the time heist happen out of frame, so we’re left with some moments that don’t land. It was probably to cut the runtime down, but seriously, I’d rather have a better film at 3.5 hours than an adequate one at 3 hours.

    And why were so many articles fixed on getting a pee break? Have bladders become collectively weaker?

  148. Bulldog68 says:

    I read somewhere that the genesis for Marvel movies having blockbuster potential started with the $45m budgeted R rated Blade, now amazingly 21 years old, grossing $131m WW.

    So now that this 22 movie arc has come to an end, regarding future box office, is this the end of the beginning, or the beginning of the end? With Marvel raising the stakes for success, will Dr Strange-like performances now be viewed as a disappointment, and in turn fuel public perception that the peak has been attained and now its back to the regularly scheduled program?

    Or is Marvel now beginning to mount the next 22 movie story arc of interconnected storylines in order to basically make every movie required viewing in order to understand everything. JS and others have made the argument that Avengers were their own thing, but most of the dramatic callback beats were to the individual movies as opposed to the former Avengers films. With this level of success, how do not go back to that formula?

    And yeah, the rat was lazy. Hulk didn’t get to smash and I wanted Thanos to revive angry Hulk again. Thor should’ve remembered why he’s a God. Black Widow deserved a better death? Captain Marvel was basically a glorified tow truck, and more could have been shown on the ramifications of half the universe just disappearing. I liked it for what it was, and for what Marvel has accomplished.

  149. Ray Pride says:

    Gene Hackman with Welcome To Mooseport.

  150. Hcat says:

    Blade was certainly the precursor and helped Fox pull the trigger on the X-Men films and then it was off to the races with each studio buying different rights. New Line actually had Iron Man for some time but couldn’t find a star because no one wanted to have their face in a helmet for half the movie.

    The Avengers films actually came about in an almost parallel way as the comic did. They chose heros that couldn’t sustain a monthly comic of their own (Hulk had already had a solo title canceled) and wanted to boost the visibility of the characters. The film happened the same way with them unable to sell the licenses for these characters or having them revert back to them unused.

    They had the same worries about grosses falling back to earth after the first Avengers but they overcame that just fine.

  151. Bulldog68 says:

    I just remembered something else I thought was kind of dumb. With all the superhero powers between them, they basically had to do a 4x100m relay and sprint the gauntlet to the time machine. Really?

  152. Sideshow Bill says:

    Also, since Thanos didn’t have the Gauntlet why didn’t Dr. Strange just teleport him into the sun or something?

    The fact that I enjoyed the movie despite all these holes is telling. I love this stuff.

  153. palmtree says:

    Yeah, I think a certain amount of plot holes are fine. It’s like there’s an acceptable amount of plot holes just as long as they don’t take away from the main point of the movie.

    For example, Cap as an old man doesn’t quite make sense, but does it lead to a nice ending? Sure it does, so I’m ok with it.

  154. Hcat says:

    Wow, I really thought that Aladdin was going to be their John Carter of this year but apparently tracking is just north of 80 million (for the four day I believe).

  155. Stella's Boy says:

    I thought and hoped that. OK not fair to judge a movie sight unseen but I feel comfortable doing so after seeing the trailer before Missing Link. Can’t unsee it. Normally if my kids want to go to the movies I’m more than happy to take them, but a line has to be drawn somewhere.

    I saw High Life last night. Anyone else not love it? Both of my friends did. I certainly admired it visually. And it has some weird and unsettling moments. But I wasn’t blown away like most seem to be. Not sure why. Hard to articulate.

  156. Dr Wally Rises says:

    “Wow, I really thought that Aladdin was going to be their John Carter of this year but apparently tracking is just north of 80 million (for the four day I believe).”

    It’s worth noting that this time last year the four-day tracking for Solo was north of $150 million. It ended up just squeaking past $100 million. It’s not an exact science.

  157. Hcat says:

    ” Normally if my kids want to go to the movies I’m more than happy to take them,”

    In the same boat, love going to the movies even if its not anything I would pick, but after sitting through Beauty and the Beast I declared a complete moratorium on my attendance to live action remakes. Lion King seems to be on their must see list for the summer but hopefully my wife or a friend takes them.

  158. Sideshow Bill says:

    I haven’t seen any of the Disney live action remakes but I’m actually interested in The Lion King.

    Different topic: I kinda sorta loved The Head Hunter. It’s basically a glorified demo reel but I was drawn into the world, and the last half hour was gripping. Also, this was apparently made for $30,000. That’s astounding and worth a lot of praise. I wish they’d had more $ to fully realize some of the monsters but I still dug it.

  159. Stella's Boy says:

    I am looking forward to checking out The Head Hunter. Heard nothing but good things. Would like to have a triple feature of that, I Trapped the Devil, and Body at Brighton Rock. All three are short and could be watched in four hours or barely more time than Endgame takes to watch with commercials and trailers. Also psyched that Burning is on Netflix now. And want to see Under the Silver Lake. So much to watch.

    I’m ready to bail on The Twilight Zone 2019. Haven’t liked a single one yet. Huge disappointment.

  160. Hcat says:

    Does anyone know when the Wandering Earth is dropping on Netflix?

    Terribly curious about it.

  161. Stella's Boy says:

    Just did a search and found a few places saying The Wandering Earth hits Netflix on May 6. I am also curious about it.

  162. leahnz says:

    ( ? er, thanks DP back atcha — was it the little chandler bing video. hope your new stuff is going well and all) this is depressing on a few levels, did someone really go tattle to the head nun? i thought DP was off on adventures and had given this place up like a bad habit, what is happening

    one can enjoy a movie, that doesn’t mean it’s a good movie. how did the bar get so low it’s like a crack in the footpath, everything in this alternate timeline is freaking me out. wake up, time to die.

  163. movieman says:

    Didn’t care for “Long Shot” at all.
    There are more laughs in any isolated minute of a “Veep” episode than its endless two hours.
    Zero chemistry between Theron and Rogen, too.
    The movie seems to exist in an alternate universe completely divorced from 21st century reality.
    Hard pass from me. Don’t get the (generally) favorable reviews.

    SB: Wish I could offer my two cents on “High Life,” but it’s yet another movie that will have to wait for home video. Never opened anywhere remotely near me (of course). Sounds fascinating, though.

  164. leahnz says:

    i meant to say re ‘high life’: not sure if it was my mood at the time but i found it very disturbing (which i wasn’t expecting for some reason) and i’ve been thinking about it since, i couldn’t say i ‘loved’ it but it was effective if disturbing people was the intent (and R pattinson again with a very nice lead perf, after this and ‘good time’ – and his smaller turn in ‘the rover’ – i think the sparkly boy may have an interesting career)

  165. brack says:

    Absolutely loved Long Shot. Had the complete opposite experience compared to movieman. Theron and Rogan have great chemistry. Lots of laughs.

  166. Stella's Boy says:

    Yeah that stinks movieman. I’m grateful for the opportunity to see it on a big screen. I agree with all that leah. It’s a distinctive experience and he is a pretty damn good actor.

    Have no opinion on the movie as I haven’t seen it, but is Long Shot about to bomb? It feels like a bomb. I’d forgotten all about it until this week. Doesn’t seem like it has much buzz. Maybe it’s just me but I don’t sense much interest in it.

  167. movieman says:

    Pattinson’s post-“Twilight” career has been as interesting and impressive as Kristen Stewart’s.
    Which is saying a LOT.

    Don’t know how to respond, Back.
    Comedy is probably the most subjective of movie genres.
    All I can say is that “LS” didn’t work for me. At all.
    And I liked all of Jonathan Levine’s previous movies (loved a few: e.g., “50/50” and “The Night Before”).
    The point of no return for me was either O’Shea Jackson’s Jr. “coming out” as a Republican and Christian (both of which allegedly make him more accepting of otherness than secular liberal Rogen: ha), or the leaked j.o. video.

  168. Hcat says:

    I forgot as well, I see a lot of ads for The Hustle but nothing for Longshot. Love Theron though and excited to see her in anything.

    As far as it bombing, I would guess that is all relative. If it does Simple Favor numbers all parties would be happy with that, but you’re right that it sure doesn’t seemed prime to breakout.

  169. Stella's Boy says:

    Oh I agree $50 million would definitely be a win. And I also love Theron and would watch her in anything. But it seems like it’s flying under the radar. Great success is, ah, the odds are against it.

  170. brack says:

    And that is a shame if that’s the case. I think it will have some decent legs maybe

  171. Stella's Boy says:

    Deadline says that tracking suggests about $10 million for Long Shot this weekend. About the same for The Intruder, which looks awesome.

  172. movieman says:

    Netflix’s Zac Efron Ted Bundy movie (“Extremely Wicked, Shockingly Evil and Vile”) is really good, and Efron is fantastic. Definitely worth checking out, gang.

    Enjoyed the political doc “Knock Down the House,” too.
    Turned me into an AOC fan: had been on the fence about her previously.
    I wouldn’t be surprised if Ocasio-Cortez is elected president one day.
    Not that I’ll be around to see it.
    But she’d definitely get my vote.

  173. brack says:

    Agree, movieman. So much or “Vile” was filmed locally (northern KY), also a nice bonus.

    Started watching “Knock Down the House”, but watching way past my bedtime and fell asleep. Will finish it today. AOC is amazing, to say the least.

  174. Hcat says:

    ‘House’ is certainly on my list. The quote I saw in the trailer of everyday people should be represented by everyday people came to mind today when reading about Biden’s son being on a Ukrainian businesses board while he was vice president. I thought you know who doesn’t have these potential skeletons? Former bartenders.

  175. movieman says:

    Brack- Yep.
    A former student’s sister worked as a PA on “Vile.” (She’d previously worked on “Strangers Prey at Night:” apparently your neck of the woods has become a veritable production hub in recent years.)

    I loved AOC’s bearded ginger bf Riley in “Knock Down.”
    Also liked that they showed him crying–twice–in the doc.
    They’re such a cute couple: hope they’re still together.

    Made it an all Netflix day with “The Last Summer.”
    Nothing groundshaking, but sweet, well played by an attractive young cast (love Maia Mitchell and Sosie Bacon!) and with nice Chicago atmospherics.
    It’s like the best Chris Columbus movie CC never directed.

  176. Stella's Boy says:

    Did not like Vile. The narrative is a disjointed mess. It tries to tell so much story in 105 minutes and it’s constantly jumping back and forth in time and it frustrates more than illuminates. At times it’s like a farce, highlighting the absurd and comical and severely downplaying the horrific crimes he committed. The victims are a complete afterthought. I don’t mind that it doesn’t show graphic violence, but it goes too far in neglecting what he actually did. There’s a good story to tell here but this isn’t it.

  177. movieman says:

    Agree, SB.
    I didn’t mind that “Vile” doesn’t show Bundy committing his murders (except that part near the end) either. The grisly descriptions of the crimes are stomach-churning enough.
    (Does anyone else think Tarantino won’t be including a reenactment of the Sharon Tate murders in “Once Upon a Time”? Gotta believe that’s why Tate’s sister has given QT her full-fledged support.)

    Also agree that there’s possibly too much story for 105 minutes.
    But I liked that Berlinger focused on the relationship between Efron and Collins (and, in a sense, makes her the protagonist). Found that an interesting choice.

    And the quasi-satirical touches (e.g. the televised courtroom proceedings) reminded me a bit of Oliver Stone in “Natural Born Killers” mode.

    No, not a “great” movie by any stretch, but a darn good one.

    And Efron kills it.

  178. movieman says:

    Buena Vista

    4,662 $40,637,000

    +88.6% / $8,717
    $514,531,638 / 8

    2 THE INTRUDER (2019)
    Sony / Screen Gems

    2,222 $3,900,000

    — / $1,755
    $3,900,000 / 1


    3,230 $3,630,000

    — / $1,124
    $3,630,000 / 1

    STX Entertainment

    3,652 $2,500,000

    — / $685
    $2,500,000 / 1

    Buena Vista

    2,243 $1,214,000

    +126.3% / $541
    $417,706,018 / 57

  179. Bulldog68 says:

    With a very competitive May ahead, looks like Endgame will have to settle for the silver on the All Time Domestic charts. After opening a whopping $110m larger, TFA will show why those Christmas weekdays are unbeatable.

    I also think it may have to settle for silver WW too, but can’t call that race yet. Does it have $800m left in the tank after such an insane blitz?

  180. BO Sock Puppet says:

    Bulldog, the bloom is off the rose, the geeks are nitpicking plot points, and Endgame will have a steep drop over the next two weeks. Not taking anything away from it, but Cameron will be king of the world for a bit longer.

  181. movieman says:

    May 3-5, 2019

    1 1 Avengers: Endgame BV $145,804,000 -59.2% 4,662 – $31,275 $619,698,638 $356 2

    2 N The Intruder (2019) SGem $11,000,000 – 2,222 – $4,950 $11,000,000 $8 1

    3 N Long Shot LG/S $10,025,000 – 3,230 – $3,104 $10,025,000 – 1

    4 N Uglydolls STX $8,510,000 – 3,652 – $2,330 $8,510,000 $45 1

    5 2 Captain Marvel BV $4,276,000 -48.6% 2,243 -192 $1,906 $420,768,018

  182. palmtree says:

    If Endgame has the same multiple as Infinity War, it could end up pretty close to TFA. But yeah, it’s still not super likely to overtake it.

    I think it really comes down to repeat viewers, and given how many accounts I’ve heard of people being brought to tears, I think it will generate those in a pretty healthy amount.

  183. Stella's Boy says:

    Are we positive they aren’t tears of relief because a three-hour-plus movie is over?

  184. palmtree says:

    If their bladders weren’t strong enough, they probably looked up Run Pee or something like that to figure out when to go. And then of course, they’d have to buy another ticket to come back and watch the part they missed.

  185. movieman says:

    Really expected “Long Shot” to do better: “The Intruder” as well.
    I guess there’s only room in the marketplace for one movie at a time if “The Movie” is as big as “Endgame.”

    That said, “Intruder” looks like another Screen Gems double considering the budget.
    “Long Shot”? Not so much. As much as I disliked it, I still thought it had the makings of at least a mid-sized hit.

  186. Hcat says:

    It probably wasn’t Avengers fault that Long Shot made what it did, sadly romantic comedies aren’t the draw they traditionally were. Star power just doesn’t get people in the seats anymore. We’ll see how Hustle does next weekend and Stuber later this summer but comedy has to be a pretty hard pitch to a studio now.

    Anyone hear what Long Shot cost? Or Endgame for that matter?

  187. Stella's Boy says:

    I saw a few stories that claim Long Shot cost about $45 million. I would have been surprised if it made more than that this weekend. I think Endgame cost $300 million.

  188. Joseph Straatmann says:

    I caught up to Endgame today. It’s a mirror image of Infinity War. A combination of a lot of moods and moments that it didn’t have time for (That place between life and death seems WAY more interesting than just a place to drop your loved one and pick up a soul stone and storage of an underutilized Marvel character), and some repetitive structure. Unlike Infinity War’s constant hostage situations, however, it wasn’t so upsettingly manipulative. They both payoff properly which is the important part they needed to do. I think Infinitely War’s payoff was better because it is so hard to do disquieting in a mainstream movie well.

    It does what it should do and nothing more. As a finishing point to these storylines, fine. As a single movie, I was left wanting. My wife who is deeply invested in the characters got what she wanted out of it, and that’s great. But me, the special one to me will always be Into the Spider-Verse, or if you MUST insist on MCU continuity, Thor Ragnarok. Those are damn near untouchable (Except when Odin’s death was kind of shuffled off).

    I will say this: Endgame is the second movie I’ve had a tornado warning go off in town while we were watching the climax. The first was “The Terminal.” I got way more of a sense that the people seeing The Terminal were, “Who cares? Restart the movie!” than the people watching Endgame, but it IS harder to get the mood of a dozen people than a hundred. For all of its flaws, The Terminal is a lovely movie, though.

  189. Hcat says:

    I hardly recall The Terminal with the exception of remembering being VERY excited for it and then being let down. I remember feeling that the movie was much more pleased with its existence than I was. Something about that mop vs. airplane bit I did not feel was earned, like halfway through it turned into something a lot more whimsical than we were originally watching. I could be wrong and would certainly be willing to revisit if there are specific praises to be sung.

    I’ve had a tornado warning in a theater as well. I was most certainly one of the ‘might as well keep playing it and go out laughing’ members of the audience.

  190. movieman says:

    I was ejected from a movie in March because of a tornado warning.
    It was about 10 minutes from the end of “Captive State.”
    Can’t say I was unhappy about leaving.
    At least they gave passes to the five of us that were in the auditorium.

  191. palmtree says:

    No wonder you guys are such big movie fans. You have to put your lives on the line just to enjoy a flick.

  192. Hcat says:

    Its the Midwest, Tornado warnings are always treated much more seriously by the people who are the signatory on the insurance policy.

    But honestly, its America, you place your life on the line when we go to the movies, or a college campus, or church, or a Kroger etc. etc. If I had to shuffle off the mortal coil at a theater, I would prefer to be taken out by the weather.

  193. movieman says:

    Hcat- Personally I’d prefer to die in my sleep, lol.
    But knowing the life I’ve led (and the luck I’ve had), it’s definitely gonna be an ugly, torturously protracted demise.
    I can hardly wait!

  194. Joseph Straatmann says:

    The first theater I was at was designed to be a fallout shelter in the sixties, so if you weren’t safe there, you weren’t safe anywhere. And they literally said the theater was the safest place to be yeaterday and simply resumed the movie.

  195. Hcat says:

    Movieman, maybe you will split the difference and die in your sleep….

    …..While doing sixty MPH into a highway embankment.

  196. Sideshow Bill says:

    It is very sad that every time I go to the movies I literally check the exits and at least briefly think about the possibility that I’m gonna get shot to death.

  197. Hcat says:

    I am having a few beers and watching the Wandering Earth and see why it was such a big hit. It’s certainly not perfect and steals from Gravity, Armageddon, snowpiercer and every Emmerich burn the globe blockbuster. But it’s damn audacious and while all it’s big emotional moments are telegraphed and filled with sap, it actually sells quite a few of them.

  198. Hcat says:

    Now I am impulsively watching Miami vice and I swear it’s a different cut than I have been watching on DVD for the past decade.

  199. movieman says:

    Not funny, Hcat!
    Dying in a car crash has always been one of my most recurring nightmares.

  200. Hcat says:

    Apologies Movieman, I didn’t meant to step on any phobias. I am wishing you a long healthy life of Volvo ownership.

  201. Triple Option says:

    I haven’t read this whole thread but I did have a couple of questions about Avengers End Game.

    1) When they’re on the time heist and Loki gets the suitcase with one of the gems, how did they get it back?

    2) I forget who it was, I believe Ant-Man and someone else, go to the original time machine that’s in the back of the van, what did they do as a result of that? Did they go to summon Brie Larson at that point?

  202. Pete B. says:

    Well TO, I’ll try to answer:
    1.) That’s one of the reasons that Tony & Steve go back to the 70s. Tony gets an earlier version of the gem that Loki ran off with while Steve gets more Pym Particles to power the machine.

    2.) I don’t think Ant-Man makes it to the van in time and the machine gets destroyed by Thanos or his minions. That’s why it looks so glum til Captain Marvel shows up like the cavalry in an old western. Not sure she was summoned.

    Hope that helped!

  203. Triple Option says:

    Thanks, Pete. But aren’t those two separate stones?I just don’t remember them getting it back from Loki.

    I’ll have to see it again when it comes out on video and take notes, haha.

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It shows how out of it I was in trying to be in it, acknowledging that I was out of it to myself, and then thinking, “Okay, how do I stop being out of it? Well, I get some legitimate illogical narrative ideas” — some novel, you know?

So I decided on three writers that I might be able to option their material and get some producer, or myself as producer, and then get some writer to do a screenplay on it, and maybe make a movie.

And so the three projects were “Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep,” “Naked Lunch” and a collection of Bukowski. Which, in 1975, forget it — I mean, that was nuts. Hollywood would not touch any of that, but I was looking for something commercial, and I thought that all of these things were coming.

There would be no Blade Runner if there was no Ray Bradbury. I couldn’t find Philip K. Dick. His agent didn’t even know where he was. And so I gave up.

I was walking down the street and I ran into Bradbury — he directed a play that I was going to do as an actor, so we know each other, but he yelled “hi” — and I’d forgot who he was.

So at my girlfriend Barbara Hershey’s urging — I was with her at that moment — she said, “Talk to him! That guy really wants to talk to you,” and I said “No, fuck him,” and keep walking.

But then I did, and then I realized who it was, and I thought, “Wait, he’s in that realm, maybe he knows Philip K. Dick.” I said, “You know a guy named—” “Yeah, sure — you want his phone number?”

My friend paid my rent for a year while I wrote, because it turned out we couldn’t get a writer. My friends kept on me about, well, if you can’t get a writer, then you write.”
~ Hampton Fancher

“That was the most disappointing thing to me in how this thing was played. Is that I’m on the phone with you now, after all that’s been said, and the fundamental distinction between what James is dealing with in these other cases is not actually brought to the fore. The fundamental difference is that James Franco didn’t seek to use his position to have sex with anyone. There’s not a case of that. He wasn’t using his position or status to try to solicit a sexual favor from anyone. If he had — if that were what the accusation involved — the show would not have gone on. We would have folded up shop and we would have not completed the show. Because then it would have been the same as Harvey Weinstein, or Les Moonves, or any of these cases that are fundamental to this new paradigm. Did you not notice that? Why did you not notice that? Is that not something notable to say, journalistically? Because nobody could find the voice to say it. I’m not just being rhetorical. Why is it that you and the other critics, none of you could find the voice to say, “You know, it’s not this, it’s that”? Because — let me go on and speak further to this. If you go back to the L.A. Times piece, that’s what it lacked. That’s what they were not able to deliver. The one example in the five that involved an issue of a sexual act was between James and a woman he was dating, who he was not working with. There was no professional dynamic in any capacity.

~ David Simon