The Summer of Excuses Hits Fifth Gear…
Rob Cohen – “I think there’s a love of infamy and heroism that doesn’t play into the zeitgeist.”
David Poland – “I think there is a hack director who doesn’t know how to entertain an audience.”
Rob Cohen – “Action films are usually about the male hero, and if you live in a time when you don’t believe in heroes, it makes it difficult … to make action films as they’ve been traditionally defined.”
David Poland – “Or maybe if your “hero” wasn’t willing to bomb the crap out of a sovereign nation so he can retrieve the one piece of ass in the military he hasn’t tapped yet, we could think of him as heroic. Could your “hero’s” action be any more like you feel Bush’s actions are?”
And just one point on Rachel Abramowitz’ piece, which tells the story well except for the one psychotic narcissist given play at the top…
“With a few exceptions, such as Russell Crowe, manly men have disappeared from the screen to be replaced either by platoons of outsider friends working together (the “X-Men,” “Lord of the Rings,” “Ocean’s Eleven”) or thin, lithe, beautiful and boyish creatures, usually alienated somewhat from their environs. In “Spider-Man,” “Batman” or even “Harry Potter,” the hero is an orphaned young man, traumatized by his past, with duty and greatness thrust upon him. His power is in his head, not his hands, and the audience feels empathy for him, not awe.”
X-Men – 25 years old
Lord Of The Rings – 50 years old
Ocean’s Eleven (which had minimal teen appeal) – 45 years old
Spider-Man – 40 years old
Batman – 60 years old
Good storytelling works. Good iconic stories tend to have good hooks to market them with.
Sony sold Stealth with everything the movie had… CG effects, good looking actors, and Jessical Biel’s body. There was NOTHING else… and audiences smelled it. Had Russell Crowe been in the lead, it would have opened before it died. But Josh Lucas and Jessica Biel don’t open movies and Jamie Foxx has never opened a movie to as much as $7 million without a lot of help (Oliver Stone/Al Pacino, small role in a Will Smith movie, Tom Cruise, Ray Charles/Oscar push). Want to say that is a typical Hollywood excuse? Wake up and smell marketing ass.
It’s lovely to claim that The Island got caught in a jetstream, but DreamWorks knew they had a problem before the summer started and before the film was finished. The Academy first-act-and-shoe party screening was not a lark.
And how can you claim there is an action problem when Mr & Mrs Smith overperformed, Star Wars topped the summer, not to mention War of the Worlds and Batman Begins!
And stop trying to throw all this on Dukes of Hazzard… do you realize how much money WB spent for the $30 million opening and that if the film doesn’t perform better overseas, they are going to lose a bundle when/if the film tops out at $100 million here?
Of course, now the wags are already tearing into King Kong – “It’s do well, but can it really get to $300 million?”. Don’t even get them started on V For Vendetta.
hes not serious about defending stealth is he? he should do what a normal director does and laugh it off and go on to another project. u can defend stealth and its lack of box office. it stunk!
I blame the advertising. That was just the worst poster I’ve seen in a long time for an action movie. What the hell are we looking at? the TV spots were awful as well. I think David is right about the star thing. Had Will Smith been in The Island or Stealth (and his face on the poster), openings would have been huge.
That is why a guy like Will Smith is paid like he is. Actors deserve their salaries. Especially when they can save a movie that is terrible.
if any major male star had been the lead in THE ISLAND, it would have been a big hit…but the movie was better for being about the idea and the action rather than the movie star.
STEALTH tanked, becuase, well, it’s garbage (or so I’m told because I’m not gonna see it in the theater)…but from everything I have read and seen, it looks like trash. entertaining in spots–maybe–but garbage all around.
the “action” movies this summer, except for SMITH, really, aren’t traditional action movies. WOTW is an alien invasion picture, BB and F4 are comics, Star Wars is Star Wars…really, the only traditional action flick to hit it’s mark is SMITH…i think that, for whatever reason, audiences are tiring of chases and shootouts and big special effects sequences…unless it has brand name appeal or the characters are on lunchboxes and trading cards, people don’t seem to be interested. I also feel that if The Island had been released, say, back in the late 90’s…it would have been a smash. anyways…like everything…it’s cyclical…action will make a comeback. We need Bruckheimer or Silver to make a balls-out action movie again.
oh, I think that V for Vendetta is going to underpreform big time…but we’ll have to see…
The poor performance of the The Island can be blamed on one thing. Piss poor marketing. The trailers for the film could’ve been much much better in summarzing the plot, but none of the trailers (I think there were two or three) did an adequate job. For a movie set in the future, there was a suprising lack of big time visuals in the film trailers and I don’t think any of them adequately got the “clones on the run” point across. Instead, the trailers and tv spots played up the “romance” between Ewan and Scarlett which in the actual movie occupies about five minutes of actual screen time. The studio didn’t know how to sell it and it showed.
Also, is Michael Bay had let Scarlett bare all, that would’ve put some asses in the seats.
Something should also be said on how technology affects this. Meaning, television production value has increased dramatically. There are many well staged and produced action scenes in many of today’s TV shows. Alias, 24, Galactica are just a couple of examples of shows that feel like they are performing decent action pieces that would’ve only been seen on the big screen a decade ago.
Also, the marketing is so formulated now, no matter what genre the content is in, it all feels so hemogenious (sp?).
Piss poor marketing? All I did was see ads for that movie. And Scarlett J was on every talk show and every magazine cover. Audiences just didn’t want to go. That is it.
I agree BluStealer. I think awareness was high. Dreamworks claims it was their biggest marketing campaign ever. People knew about the movie. That was not a problem.
if u didn’t know the island was opening u were in a coma. a heavy one.
The Island bombing. Maybe it was the stars. Maybe it was the premise. Maybe it was the fact that it wasn’t good. Movies are unpredictable and so are audiences.
But I know why we stayed away from Stealth. Because it looked like crap.
The Island just wasn’t any good in my opinion. Its incredibly dismal performance at the BO can’t all be blamed on bad marketing or lack of stars — the people that did go to see it just didn’t like it.
Ditto with Dukes of Hazzard. I can’t turn on the TV with out hearing that @#$%@#$@#$ song. And, of coure, the Dukes sequel announcement will be any day now.
Good movies find an audience. Eventually.
I can safely say that Stealth will never have one. Foxx and Biel and Lucas are deleting it as we speak from their resumes.
i’m not denying that the Island had a lot of marketing. but the marketing job was terrible. it didn’t get across what the movie was about at all nor did the trailers make people want to find out either. i’ll agree that film ultimately being disappointing didn’t help matters at all.
and i highly doubt it was Dreamworks biggest campaign ever…more than Meet The Fockers? More than The Ring?
That is what Dreamworks said after Bay complained about the marketing. I don’t know if that’s accurate.
…and let me add…MORE THAN SHREK 2!?!?!?
You didn’t get that it was about cloning, two people on the run from bad guys and a lot of chases? Are you blind or just tuned it out?
While I agree that Cohen is a loser, I don’t agree with Dave P’s point about Spider-Man being 40 years old and Lord of the Rings being 55 and so on. They’re all being made as movies _now_ which must say _something_ about current moviegoing tastes, right?
The problem with THE ISLAND was likely poor word of mouth coupled with the crappy opening weekend. People may have been on the bubble in terms of going to see it then, when it didn’t open big and reaction was so-so, people skipped it.
As we all chatted about a few weeks ago….going to the movies kind of sucks. If a movie isn’t an “event” I think most people would rather sit home, spend $4 to rent it on DVD later and watch it at home.
Watching a movie at home means you can drink beer, smoke weed (or whatever you want to do) talk, stop it to get snacks or use the bathroom, etc. Why waste double the money to go to a theater, get robbed for a soda that you have to pee back out right at the end of the movie??
I hate to be so vulgar about it all…but I think most people would rather see a so-so movie at home. I bet THE ISLAND does well in DVD rentals.
p.s. THE ISLAND was just plain BORING. That’s why it tanked.
I think Daves point is that there is no age on good stories. Good stories stand the test of time.
I still can’t get over FF being a certified hit. Who gets the credit? Alba? Marketing? The comics appeal?
I know what Dave’s point is, but Cohen actually does make a point that the days of the macho military action movie, the likes of Top Gun and the Stallone and Schwarzenegger movies, has been gone for a while. Too bad he didn’t figure that out before he made the movie. Too bad he’s a crappy hack as well.
FF wasn’t due to Alba. Credit audiences with wanting to see something light and undemanding after the darkness of WOTW, Batman, Star Wars, etc.
Once I realized The Island was just a remake of Parts: The Clonus Horror, I had no interest in seeing it, I was already loosing interest with each new commercial and trailer, and of coarse the built in suspicion of suckage to be when Michael Bay is attached as director.
Stealth looked crappy from the start, and with tag lines like “from the director of The Fast and the Furious and XXX” that for me was taken as a warning, “This film will contain bad writing, substandard plot, and an over reliance on CGI.”
Dukes I would like to see what the numbers are by region to see where the biggest audience is, as I said many times before I only went for the car stunts since we haven’t had a decent car chase since Ronin. I figure that had to be the biggest draw to the film since the story wasn’t all that great.
All of these ‘people didn’t like it so it didn’t do well’ still doesn’t explain opening day figures. The theater was 30% full on opening night. We were shocked, SHOCKED I TELLS YA.
Sure, awareness was high, but the attraction wasn’t. The awareness was there, but the clear and concise theme wasn’t. Ewan & Scarlett appeal to a select crowd. If they were in War of the Worlds instead, it most likely would’ve still have topped $200 million. Seriously.
On another note, yes it’s true, FF was light and easy to digest. Something quick to pass through the system. The television marketing was excellent, just the best of the season.
How large was Dukes marketing budget? It was everywhere last week. Why did Warner Bros. trump it up to those levels?
I think everyone is in agreement that they’re shocked that The Island didn’t open. Didn’t open at all. I couldn’t believe it. Still can’t.
Over on movie city indie a few weeks back, Ray posted a link to an article about how machismo is pretty much gone from popular culture. I skimmed the article, but I seem to remember it mostly talking about film and music. Specifically “Bright Eyes” (Conor Oberst) and Wes Anderson being these kind of….girly men who are way in touch with their feelings.
I just thought of that after reading that LAT piece and seeing jeff’s comment.
I think it’s funny that with such a strong right-wing presense “voted” in by the American people, there aren’t more macho, “jingoistic,” “stupid white people” movies out there. I mean, if half the country was dumb enough to vote for Bush, they certainly would be dumb enough to go see a new RAMBO or Chuck Norris MIA picture.
I’m not saying *I* want these things…but why hasn’t Hollywood tapped back into that market?
Their isn’t a strong “Right-Wing presense” in this country, just an organized one that hates Hollywood anyway. Remember, Reagan won his second-term by 48 states and nearly 20% of the vote. This country has been split in the past two elections, and Bush has an approval rating the low 40’s. Congress is hovering around in the 20’s.
With talk show hosts and pundits aiming for Hollywood every few weeks, don’t expect them to change back to the old action-style anytime soon. They hate being bossed around.
For more 80’s action fun, checkout Ruthless Reviews 80’s action guide!
http://www.ruthlessreviews.com/80saction/80saction.html
Manly!
Don its people like you who work in films who just really don’t get it. You should look in the mirror and realize why you don’t get it. You’re the problem with the movies. I think the public has proved many times that it will support good movies. Trying to dumb down doesn’t work. Maybe you wacko political views are clouding your suspect judgement.
Makes you gaze and wonder why Petuluma Films isn’t breaking box office records with people like don working for them. I for one am shocked.
I don’t know what the total ad budget was for Dukes but that 17million they had to pay out at the last minute to settle the lawsuit by the producer of Moonrunners couldn’t have helped much.
Just when you doubt that Hollywood will never get the mainstream America you got Don ready to step up and prove it right.
Thanks, Don.
Is machismo really all but gone in movies? Man On Fire, Hostage, Sin City, etc. I think there are plenty of recent examples, and movies like that appeal to people of all political persuasions.
Macho movies will never go away. Ever. Lets not go calling Stealth a macho movie. Josh Lucas ain’t exactly Stallone.
Right or Left or Don’t Give a Flying F*&&, good movies appeal to every facet of society. Especially macho movies and young men. It is part of growing up.
“Why aren’t there any big mainstream musicals any more??? sure there’s one or two. But not as many as the sixties and seventies saw.”
“How about Westerns? Only been a handful of those in the last couple of years, why is that??”
The point is that the Stallone and Arnold-brand action movies are out of style is because that’s what happens to fads. They go out of style.
And hopefully (Oh please dear god!!) CG-infested movies will too.
Uhh…I didn’t say *I* wanted more right-wing macho movies….I just wondered why there weren’t any. I even said that in my post. Thanks for reading it…or skimming it far enough to get all worked up.
I also couldn’t figure out where and all there isn’t more government paranoia films like the ones during the blacklist or during the 70’s, post-Watergate…but they seem to be trickling out more and more now.
PandaBear- Firstly, I don’t have any wacko political views. I don’t see how you could take that away from what I wrote.
Second, if “good movies appeal to every facet of society” then why is MURDERBALL struggling? I wish I could give more examples of good movies out there but I can’t. If “good” movies are so “appealing,” then why is FANTASTIC FOUR a hit?
My point was merely that there’s this divide in our political, and thus social views so why aren’t there more movie catering to the more conservative white audiences?
**note** *I* don’t “want” this….I’m just wondering why.
Seemed that way to me and I did, unfortunately, read it. Please expand then. Clear it up for me. I don’t want to misinterpret you but be clear. That is all I ask.
If you didn’t understand what I wrote and somehow implied I was a “political whacko” I can’t help you….Panda Bear. If my “political” views (which included saying Bush was “voted” -in quotation marks- into office and then later that anyone dumb enough to vote for him would surely be dumb enough to see a jingoistic, white macho hero) rubbed you the wrong way then I have no defense.
If you think all movies should stay as far left as they can and shoot to appease only you and your rant oriented, misinformed and miseducated ilk then so be it.
Actually, I just reread what I wrote and the only confusion here is how you missed my point the first time. I wish to withdraw the first 3/4 of my prveious statement.
“Macho” movies go in and out of style. Just like any genre. The tough guy leads of the early ’70s were losing their luster by the Star Wars era (what did that time give us? Pacino, Hoffman, Dreyfuss, Alda on TV). It wasn’t until the early ’80s that the genre reasserted itself. The Stallone/Arnold era lasted a LONG time (too long, IMO) but naturally petered out, as all movie trends do.
Wait another couple of years…you’ll see an explosion in machismo cinema. Trust m.
Murderball is struggling because it’s a documentary not usually a big draw, I know there have been exeptions in the past couple of years but look at the number of documentaries released in a year and how many are sucessful. When it comes to Murderball what’s the draw? How is a film about EXTREME paraplegic’s playing wheelchair rugby going to draw a big audience. People in the United States barely know what rugby is, or care.
i would only like a return to macho cinema if Javier Bardem or Benecio is in it. Most men that Hollywood deems fit to put in a macho-type role don’t seem like they could scare Don Knotts much less defend the Universe, rescue Lota, etc.
and re. Summer of Blame…I have no intention of seeing Dukes (or stealth) for many reasons listed before…but I am still shocked that HAzzard did such poor business given what the competition for the weekend actually was.
The marketing for the movie, especially the TV spots must have cost so much that I am sure the producers were on the 100 proof stuff by Sunday night.
I just love how every article about Cohen reminds people he went to Harvard…
I know I’m probably going to be accused of an oversimplification, but it seems to me that the flops we are talking about here never had any viability to begin with.
Where was the hook for “The Island”? In the premise? The genre? The B-list cast? The director? None of the above. If they had gotten Nic Cage to headline this, it probably would have done at least “National Treasure” numbers. But as it was, whoever pushed to get a $125 million green light for this surefire non-starter deserves to have his/her head examined – before being placed on the chopping block.
Ditto for “Stealth.” ‘Nuff said.
For most audiences – you know, those oddballs who don’t follow movie websites and could care less about festival faves “Hustle and Flow,” “Murderball” or “Layer Cake” (if they’ve heard of them at all) – I think it’s safe to assume that the perception was that both these movies were just a routine waste of time and money just to again watch stuff getting blown up real good. Maybe (and only maybe) these movies might have broken through if they had gotten sensational reviews and/or word of mouth. Absent that kind of buzz and without any kind of inherent traction, it seemed pretty obvious (at least to me) that “The Island” and “Stealth” were dead in the water from the get-go.
True, Stealth was dead in the water by the time of the first trailer. However, it all worked out on paper before. Hit director. Jamie Foxx coming off his Oscar win. Biel for the sex factor. Top Gun with a twist. Fact of the matter was, Cohen was nothing without Vinnie.
The Island script was picked up by Steven Spielberg, who got it directly to Bay as soon as possible. Ewan coming off Star Wars and Scarlett doing her first big movie. Bad Boys & Logan’s Run? A chase to top all other chases.
July releases for both. What could go wronOH SH
Why They Failed
For this summers two biggest financial failures Stealth and The Island the blame game has begun. Just who or what was responsible for the massive failure of two films with visions of blockbuster grosses. So why did these two films that some had considered sure fire blockbusters fail……
The Island:
Mistake #1. Michael Bay is not Steven Speilberg! There really is only one Director in the world who can open a picture and his name is not Michael Bay. Whether it was hubris or a misunderstanding, trying to sell The Island on the blockbuster reputation of Director Michael Bay was a mistake. Though Mr. Bay has a terrific track record of financial success, none of his previous opening weekends can be directly attributed to his appeal. Genre, starpower and marketing have always helped Mr. Bay to his openings.
Mistake #2 The Starpower of Ewan McGregor is gravely overrated. Ewan McGregor is a wonderfully talented and appealing actor but his box office track record is more than questionable. McGregor has starred in four films that grossed more than the magical 100 million dollar mark. However no one would credit Mr. McGregor with opening any of the three Star Wars pictures. As for his forth blockbuster Blackhawk Down, McGregor’s role was too tiny to account for much of any of that films success. Mr. McGregor’s most impressive box office performance is the 66 million for Big Fish, a slight, timid, artful romance with Tim Burton Directing. Big Fish in no way could have paved the way for McGregor to be the big time action hero needed to open The Island.
Mistake 3# Release Date Complacency. The third week of July has a strong blockbuster track record all the way back to 2000 and the Harrison Ford flick What Lies Beneath. The date provided big openers like last years Bourne Supremacy, 2002’s Road To Perdition and 2001’s Jurassic Park 3. In fact the third week of July 2003 helped Mr. Bay’s Bad Boys 2 to nearly 50 million dollars. The difference however is glaring, no Will Smith in The Island. The importance of a good release date cannot be underestimated but it certainly should not be overestimated and clearly Dreamworks overvalued this particular weekend.
There are other reasons why The Island failed. The marketing machine failed to find a way to sell the story, Scarlett Johannson is better known for her acting than her bust which was preeminant in the marketing campaign. And least of all a little known boycott and lawsuit by filmmaker Robert S. Fiveson who has rallied fans of Mystery Science Theater in his cause of action against Michael Bay and Dreamworks. Mr. Fiveson was the creative force behind Parts: The Clonus Horror, the film that inspired The Island. Mr. Fiveson was never compensated for his work and was not even consulted when the remake was being mounted. Okay so maybe this has nothing to do with why The Island went down in flames but it should, Mr. Fiveson created this story and deserves compensation. Consider the failure of The Island a kharmic nod to Robert Fiveson.
Stealth is a far more curious case. To me, Stealth never once felt like a blockbuster. First of all the film was completed and shelved in 2004. Not until Jamie Foxx became an Oscar winner did Sony decide that Stealth had blockbuster potential. Unfortunately it was clear from the outset that Foxx was not the star of Stealth and audiences were never fooled into thinking he was.
Mistake #1 If Michael Bay is no Steven Speilberg, Director Rob Cohen is no Michael Bay! The resume of Director Rob Cohen was prominently displayed in the film’s ad campaign. Indeed both Fast and The Furious and XXX were big hit films. However Stealth had nothing on either of those films. When Fast and The Furious hit it was because of the cars so well featured in the films ad campaigns. For XXX, Vin Diesel showed his temporary box office muscle while the ads capitalized heavily on the extreme sports fad. The hook for Stealth was…..? Umm….. well no one is quite sure what the appeal of Stealth was beyond it’s genre, action adventure, and it’s summer release date there really wasn’t much of any hook.
Mistake #2 Stealth? What kind of title is Stealth? Putting aside, for the moment, the fact that the movie Stealth has as much relation to stealth technology as The Island has to an actual island, stealth technology has not been big in our culture in some 10 or so years. Yes it is quite impressive that our military has planes that can can hide from radar, however not since they were first introduced in the media as ‘the invisible plane’ has any average American cared about Stealth technology.
Mistake #3 The starpower, or lack thereof, of Josh Lucas. Clearly Sony was under the impression that Josh Lucas was going to be a big star. Unfortunately they weren’t ready for Miramax to delay the role many expected to propel Lucas to stardom. Lucas co-stars with Robert Redford and Jennifer Lopez in the Oscar bait drama An Unfinished Life which was to be a splashy end of the year release in 2004. However due to the break up of Miramax and Disney and with rumors of needed reshoots and retools An Unfinished Life was pulled from the schedule and dumped into 2005 and will now debut this fall. Without that role the only exposure Mr. Lucas had was a well regarded but little seen indie called Up Around The Bend with Christopher Walken. Mr. Lucas may have a bright future but without having a breakout role before Stealth he could not be counted on to sell the picture.
Throw in yet another case of release date complacency and you have a recipe for failure. One of the lessons of both The Island and Stealth is that you cannot just announce your movie is being released in July and expect your movie to be a hit. A movie is more than the sum of it’s release date. And to the thought that these two films are victims of the mythical box office slump, the fact is that both are cases of marketing miscalculations surrounding two subpar films. The box office is just fine and audiences are still going to the movies but you had better do more than dub your movie a blockbuster, it had better actually be one.
I love when Chet and I agree.
I believe the big macho movie will happen again and be HUGE… as long as there is a guy with real charisma.
Part of the problem is that guys like Will Smith, Wesley Snipes and Mel Gibson – whose Road Warrior 4 would have been a mega-smash – want more than just muscle movies and clever kill lines.
Then, you have Batman returning with a muscular, but not macho actor… and Superman is being directed, as the last two Batmans were, by a gay man with a gay sensibility. Not that there’s anythign wrogn with that, but Bryan Singer is not going to deliver the next action superstar. And even on X-Men, with two shots at casting the very macho Wolverine, the first guy was a non-starter and the great actor who finally did the role came form the musical theater.
When Travolta outbutches you, you’re not the next great action star.
When the guy arrives, the genre will follow.
In the meanwhile, CG and charm are the stars.
Kernan – Not bad, but wrong on Lucas… Unfinished Life was a dead issue before Stealth was made… it was meant to be released in December 2003.
And Foxx signed onto Stealth before he made Ray.
I’m sure the reason STEALTH didn’t do well was because it was made by worthless liberals.
Just like Revenge of The Shit.
They’re just movies, Dave…and bad ones at that.
Foxx must have been regretting that decision. Hopefully it fades without anyone remembering.
Josh Lucas has a bit more history than he’s getting credit for here. He’s at least recognizable from “Sweet Home Alabama,” “Hulk,” even “A Beautiful Mind.”
He’s no movie star, mind you, but he’s hardly a complete unknown.
Was I really the only one who saw “Undertow?”
Lucas appears to have been separated at birth from Matthew McConnaughey (sp?), another character actor whose career hasn’t lived up to its early explosive hype.
Lucas may be a good looking guy with some decent films but hes no movie star.
Biels boobs are only worth so much.
Obviously when it comes to the opening weekend, the quality of the film itself is of little real consequence (as DP often says).
It does seem like with movies like The Island or Stealth that there was a feeling that there’s nothing new there, so why don’t I just skip it (or wait for DVD).
I mean, there wasn’t a moment in either of those trailers that said to me, “Hey, there’s something I haven’t seen”. Even when they released the car chase trailer for The Island, it just looked like Bad Boys II in the near-future. There was nothing compelling about anything we were shown in either one that made me want to rush out to see it.
They could’ve doubled their ad budgets, and it wouldn’t have made me any more likely to see either movie. Creating awareness isn’t enough. There has to be interest generated, as well.
My almost 17-year old nephew, a member of the prime target of the studios, was interested in seeing only four movies this summer: Batman Begins, ROTS, WOTW and the F4. So action is still attractive, but only if there’s a real story and intriguing characters.
Or the semblance thereof (Fantastic Four).
Worthless liberals? Poor liberals. Someone needs to give them puppies. Oh, a PUPPY!
Does anyone have any figures of The Island openning from across the pond? McGregor actually has star power there. Im still confused at how Scartlett-Jo has somehow not become a bigger star. One could speculate, that some part of the viewing audience, might really enjoy that whole “too thin” thing.
What a strange trip this Summer has been. Bring forth the Fall. I want the signal turned back on.
Stealth looks very much like an action programmer that opens on February or October around 12-15m on its way to 35-50m and a very happy DVD future, and seems to have done exactly like that (a little worse maybe due to summer competion). So the real question is not why it didn’t work (it did work), but why it get greenlight with such ridiculous budget and who decide it was really big summer tentpole? Had Sony got Cage instead of Lucas, it would opened better for sure, but not better enough. 20m-22m for either Stealth or The Island might have avoid the horror stories in the press, but they would still be bombs (and even more overbudget).
All the big bombs of the summer (xXx 2, Island, Stealth, KIngdom of Heaven, I know the last one was sort of saved by foreign) looked as disasters waiting to happen. It seems like big complacency going on on the industry, as if in all this movies there were the believe that as long as they spent mey selling it, people would come. david might be right that Dreamworls new The Island was a problem, but then why didn’t day moved it out of summer? In September or October it would still bomb, but the heat on the press would be far smaller, the would spent less selling it and the film would probably perform a little better (as did Sky Captain last year).
Stealth looks very much like an action programmer that opens on February or October around 12-15m on its way to 35-50m and a very happy DVD future, and seems to have done exactly like that (a little worse maybe due to summer competion). So the real question is not why it didn’t work (it did work), but why it get greenlight with such ridiculous budget and who decide it was really big summer tentpole? Had Sony got Cage instead of Lucas, it would opened better for sure, but not better enough. 20m-22m for either Stealth or The Island might have avoid the horror stories in the press, but they would still be bombs (and even more overbudget).
All the big bombs of the summer (xXx 2, Island, Stealth, KIngdom of Heaven, I know the last one was sort of saved by foreign) looked as disasters waiting to happen. It seems like big complacency going on on the industry, as if in all this movies there were the believe that as long as they spent mey selling it, people would come. david might be right that Dreamworls new The Island was a problem, but then why didn’t day moved it out of summer? In September or October it would still bomb, but the heat on the press would be far smaller, the would spent less selling it and the film would probably perform a little better (as did Sky Captain last year).
Stealth looks very much like an action programmer that opens on February or October around 12-15m on its way to 35-50m and a very happy DVD future, and seems to have done exactly like that (a little worse maybe due to summer competion). So the real question is not why it didn’t work (it did work), but why it get greenlight with such ridiculous budget and who decide it was really big summer tentpole? Had Sony got Cage instead of Lucas, it would opened better for sure, but not better enough. 20m-22m for either Stealth or The Island might have avoid the horror stories in the press, but they would still be bombs (and even more overbudget).
All the big bombs of the summer (xXx 2, Island, Stealth, KIngdom of Heaven, I know the last one was sort of saved by foreign) looked as disasters waiting to happen. It seems like big complacency going on on the industry, as if in all this movies there were the believe that as long as they spent mey selling it, people would come. david might be right that Dreamworls new The Island was a problem, but then why didn’t day moved it out of summer? In September or October it would still bomb, but the heat on the press would be far smaller, the would spent less selling it and the film would probably perform a little better (as did Sky Captain last year).
Stealth looks very much like an action programmer that opens on February or October around 12-15m on its way to 35-50m and a very happy DVD future, and seems to have done exactly like that (a little worse maybe due to summer competion). So the real question is not why it didn’t work (it did work), but why it get greenlight with such ridiculous budget and who decide it was really big summer tentpole? Had Sony got Cage instead of Lucas, it would opened better for sure, but not better enough. 20m-22m for either Stealth or The Island might have avoid the horror stories in the press, but they would still be bombs (and even more overbudget).
All the big bombs of the summer (xXx 2, Island, Stealth, KIngdom of Heaven, I know the last one was sort of saved by foreign) looked as disasters waiting to happen. It seems like big complacency going on on the industry, as if in all this movies there were the believe that as long as they spent mey selling it, people would come. david might be right that Dreamworls new The Island was a problem, but then why didn’t day moved it out of summer? In September or October it would still bomb, but the heat on the press would be far smaller, the would spent less selling it and the film would probably perform a little better (as did Sky Captain last year).
Is this still the Internet? I’m surprised no geek’s called Dave on his bizarro guesstimate of the age of the X-Men franchise. Guess it’ll be me: The X-men are only one year younger than Spider-man(Fantastic Four is one year older). So 42, 43, and 44 years old respectively. I don’t think Stan Lee was still even Editor in Chief at Marvel 25 years ago.
Anyway I think this searching for an explanation for why the Island flopped is weird. It flopped because it looked boring. It’s not Ewan and Scarlett’s fault: they’re good actors but who really expected them to have good roles in this? The premise wasn’t confusing- it was tired. Clones being harvested for their organs? Wow, did Paramount develop this script? Because the poster above was right: this would’ve been a big hit ten years ago. And making boring flops that would’ve been hits ten years ago is what Paramount’s all about.
thanks felipe i’m sure what u had to say was mucho important but 5 times?
“Second, if ‘good movies appeal to every facet of society’ then why is MURDERBALL struggling?”
I think it’s because of the title. I tried to talk my girlfriend into going:
Me: “Hey, let’s go see a great new movie that just came out. It’s a documentary like that damned penguin movie you wanted to see.”
Her: “What is it?”
Me: “Murderball.”
Her: “No.”
Me: “But it’s supposed to be good.”
Her: “Murderball!?! What’s it about?”
Me: “Parapalegic guys playing rugby.”
Her: She actually didn’t say anything because she had walked out of the room on me by that point.
Maybe if they had called it something uplifting, like “The Game of Their Lives,” people would be able to talk other people into seeing it.
Not every movie makes a fortune at the box office. Their appeal happens later on video, dvd, and on tv. All in all I think Murderball will be a very nice success.
Movie stars open films. Ewan M and Scarlett J are great actors but they’re not movie stars. But I don’t think anyone expected the movie to tank like it did. Maybe it will clean up overseas and on video.
can u give muderball a chance to get into 100 theatres before u bash its numbers?
I will never again pay to see a movie about a talking plane.
Well the ineviable lawsuit against The Island by the producers of Parts the Clonus Horror has happened.
I refused to see Stealth because the poster looked like a bad DVD release and the premise sounded like “My Mother the Plane.”
I went to see The Island because I wanted to see a big action sci-fi movie but the story was predictable and the chase sequences were filled everything except believable tension.
FF I liked because it was funny. Batman I hated because it wasn’t. How many times can you tell that same damned story? It’s like watching someone remake the original Dracula. We already know what’s gonna happen. If you’re going to do a Batman movie, drop us in the middle of some action.
“If you’re going to do a Batman movie, drop us in the middle of some action.”
Steve, you summed up my problem with most comicbook movies lately. They all feel like they need to show you the whole origin story for 45-60 minutes. Tim Burton’s Batman didn’t bother and was stronger for it. We started with a Batman, and only dealt with the origin as it related to Vicki Vale discovering Bruce was Batman. So much less clunky than anything since (including the otherwise great Spiderman).
That said, the origin stuff in Batman Begins was the best part, and the movie faded afterwards. So unless it’s going to be done really well, most comicbook directors shouldn’t even bother.
Sorry, please go back to talking about how much Stealth sucked…
People keep saying that Cohen was nothing without Vinnie and that STEALTH tanked because of the lack of star power. Did Vin have *any* star power when he took FatF to over 100 mil.
How do you get the stars of tomorrow if you don’t give the B-listers of today a shot? Risky . . . but it probably needs to be done.
I should also add that Cohen is a hack of unfathamable proportions. Dave has never been more correct when he called him one of the worst directors ever.
“I’m sure the reason STEALTH didn’t do well was because it was made by worthless liberals.”
That is too rich. Quote of the freakin’ day! Ohhh, to live on only air and ignorance.
Oddly enough, Vin DID have star power. All the teens knew about him during the first screenings of F&tF. Whhhaaa???
Batman isn’t funny. Period. The origin story is the weakest, but also the strongest way to introduce a character.
I would argue that Vin Diesel was part of F&TF getting to $100 million, but not the reason… the reason was that Cohen was smart enough to find a B genre that had been quiet and to muscle it up with a real budget. Vin was both a part of the success and a beneficiary of it.
A star may or may not have made The Island a hot… it depends whether you believe that the film would have gotten good word of mouth. But a star surely would have opened the movie better, thus getting a wider sampling of people who could give it word of mouth.
“Stealth” never had a chance. It is a pro-war movie at a time when Americans are getting blown up in a war zone half a world away on a daily basis. “The Green Berets” suffered a similar fate — and that picture starred John Wayne.
It will be interesting to see what happens this weekend with another pro-war movie. Because of what happened with “Stealth”, Miramax will open “The Great Raid” upmarket/arthouse where it can. The sneak preview last weekend ran in quite a few upmarket/arthouse theaters.
Ther Fast and the Furious got to where it did because it was an entertaining movie. If you didn’t like it so be it. But it was an entertaining piece of popcorn summer. Especially if you’re into cars.
Why are people trying to find a reason why Stealth bombed? It is just a flat out awful movie. What more do you need?
i don’t think anyone will remember stealth in 3 weeks.
The excuses need to stop. More than anything, Stealth and the Island bombed because they just weren’t any good.
do u think jamie foxx even knew it was opening? or did he just deny it?