The Gibson Thing
You’ve probably read the TMZ coverage…
Now, there is the first public statement…
BREAKING NEWS: Mel Gibson Makes Statement
Statement from Mel Gibson re DUI arrest July 29, 2006
April 26, 2024
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It shows how out of it I was in trying to be in it, acknowledging that I was out of it to myself, and then thinking, “Okay, how do I stop being out of it? Well, I get some legitimate illogical narrative ideas” ā some novel, you know?
So I decided on three writers that I might be able to option their material and get some producer, or myself as producer, and then get some writer to do a screenplay on it, and maybe make a movie.
And so the three projects were “Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep,” “Naked Lunch” and a collection of Bukowski. Which, in 1975, forget it ā I mean, that was nuts. Hollywood would not touch any of that, but I was looking for something commercial, and I thought that all of these things were coming.
There would be no Blade Runner if there was no Ray Bradbury. I couldn’t find Philip K. Dick. His agent didn’t even know where he was. And so I gave up.
I was walking down the street and I ran into Bradbury ā he directed a play that I was going to do as an actor, so we know each other, but he yelled “hi” ā and I’d forgot who he was.
So at my girlfriend Barbara Hershey’s urging ā I was with her at that moment ā she said, “Talk to him! That guy really wants to talk to you,” and I said “No, fuck him,” and keep walking.
But then I did, and then I realized who it was, and I thought, “Wait, he’s in that realm, maybe he knows Philip K. Dick.” I said, “You know a guy namedā” “Yeah, sure ā you want his phone number?”
My friend paid my rent for a year while I wrote, because it turned out we couldn’t get a writer. My friends kept on me about, well, if you can’t get a writer, then you write.”
~ Hampton Fancher
“That was the most disappointing thing to me in how this thing was played. Is that Iām on the phone with you now, after all thatās been said, and the fundamental distinction between what James is dealing with in these other cases is not actually brought to the fore. The fundamental difference is that James Franco didnāt seek to use his position to have sex with anyone. Thereās not a case of that. He wasnāt using his position or status to try to solicit a sexual favor from anyone. If he had ā if that were what the accusation involved ā the show would not have gone on. We would have folded up shop and we would have not completed the show. Because then it would have been the same as Harvey Weinstein, or Les Moonves, or any of these cases that are fundamental to this new paradigm. Did you not notice that? Why did you not notice that? Is that not something notable to say, journalistically? Because nobody could find the voice to say it. Iām not just being rhetorical. Why is it that you and the other critics, none of you could find the voice to say, āYou know, itās not this, itās thatā? Because ā let me go on and speak further to this. If you go back to the L.A. TimesĀ piece, thatās what it lacked. Thatās what they were not able to deliver. The one example in the five that involved an issue of a sexual act was between James and a woman he was dating, who he was not working with. There was no professional dynamic in any capacity.
~ David Simon
the guy gets busted for dui, then says some rude stuff… who cares?
come monday this will probably be the biggest thing nobody at the office will probably not be talking about.
Rude? Is that really the best way to summarize what he said?
We’ve all done and said stupid stuff while drunk, big deal.
His apology sounds sincere enough for me. Moving on.
“until the other allegations about sexual and ethnic slurring came out”
So does that mean Mel was doing some ethnic/racial namecalling or was he accusing said officer of same?
Whew after all his sanctimonious behavoir and blessed meetings prior to Passion of the Christ…maybe he should apologize to the Jews while he’s at it, if he’s going to be shortly apologizing to ethnic groups!
Definitely more than just “rude.” Hell, this could forever kill his career.
My feeling is that very well written statement just put a big snuff on the fire, publicly for Mr. Gibson.
I don’t even think it’s going to affect his Hollywood capital if he shows that he can still make the puppet masters money.
…which makes the opening of Apocalypto all the more crucial.
This doesn’t change much, it basically just confirms what everybody in Hollywood already suspected about his inclinations regarding certain ethnic groups, and his massive paranoia and belligerence. Not a stunner but a lot of heads are nodding their heads today thinking “I thought so”.
Every time he puts out a film, journalists will remind everyone that he drunkenly accused Jews of all the wars in the world, and that he put out POTC which was accused of being anti-Semitic. What studios want that constant negative publicity? I think his career is permanently altered.
what is Mel so unhappy about. He’s got a ton of money and a dream job of making whatever filmic art he likes. I’m sure there have been many Jewish people that helped build up his career and his bank account. What is wrong with him?
I never saw Mel’s Pirates of the Caribbean…
Funny, that’s exactly what I thought when I saw “POTC.”
Not a Mel afficionado, so I honestly don;t know the answer to this–but did Mel “drunkenly accused Jews of all the wars in the world” or was it his Dad…and…if it was Mel who said that was he actually drunk?
I just mention POTC (not pirates!) because I thought the movie had anti-semitic leanings.
Don’t ever think I’ve ever read an interview with/on mel.
Even though this story should go away with the apology, there is absolutely no way it will. The media will keep this fire a’burnin’ for awhile.
I don’t necessarily think this will change the release plans for “Apocalypto,” but it will change how much Gibson talks to the press. I can see him mostly doing softball TV, and being very selective about print.
If Mel limits his press coverage, it can only hurt Apocalypto since I’m sure the marketing people were always planning on basing their campaign around him doing all the publicity. Or are we going to see them pushing Rudy Youngblood as the Next Big Thing?
I bet now they’re wishing they had put the movie out in August, so that Mel wouldn’t have had as much free time on his hands.
There will be one big magazine cover, where he talks about this incident and his “progress” since. And then he’ll refuse to talk about the incident anymore because he’s already “talked about it.”
Or something like that.
I can’t believe he basically admitted making all the anti-semitic remarks. It’s not like he just said “I was out of control and said things I regret.” He says “I said despicable things that were untrue.” You have to be a fool to think this is no big deal.
Now if the man had gone on some kind of anti-Israel rant to the cops about how the Zionist nation is causing all the problems in the Middle East, it would almost be some defensible position. Not that most people start getting all political when they’re arrested for D.U.I.s But Gibson’s attack was on all Jews, which reveals some kind of deeper-seeded resentment. Questioning the cops–“Are you a Jew?” Conspiracy theories–“The Jews are the cause of all the wars in the world.” He sounds like an absolute madman.
Also, it’s not like he was arrested by a black cop and called him a nigger out of anger, using anything he could to lash out. Gibson couldn’t have known any of the cops were Jews (if any of them even were), so he was making these remarks completely unsolicited and contextless. It appears they were getting the man’s real, unfiltered feelings.
Not only does this raise questions about the marketing, release, and reception of Apocalypto, but it casts a new light on The Passion of the Christ. I didn’t think the stereotypes of the Jews in the film were that bad, but any doubts as to Gibson’s INTENTIONS have been removed. If he has those feelings towards the people, he portrayed those characrers in that way with total knowledge of what he was doing. It makes his denial of such intentions during the promotion of the film even that more disturbing, as he was clearly lying through his teeth to quell the controversy.
As for Mel’s father, it’s clear that the leaf doesn’t fall too far from the tree, however he may have tried to cover it up. I don’t believe Gibson is going to fare very well in this town after today, and I can only imagine the reception he would get if he appeared or was nominated at an awards ceremony. What Roman Polanski did was reprehensible, but he did it once and has since been carrying out a normal life with a wife and children of his own. Gibson’s problem seems like something much more engrained and not likely to be forgiven by the Hollywood community, let alone the Jews that participate prominently in it.
Lazarus what you’re essentially saying is:
The Jews in Hollywood are going to take Gibson down for this one.
I still say:
They are smarter than that. If they see that they can make money off him, regardless of his mania, they will keep Pimping him.
Coming Summer 2008–
Mel Gibson’s Jews on A Plane.
“So Scary You’ll Shabbat Your Pants.”
I should also add:
Yet, they won’t (and shouldn’t) forget his disposition. And as soon as they see he’s not profitable anymore, then he’s over.
1. What Mel Gibson did was asinine, dangerous, irresponsible and what he said was racist and anti-semitic. He has actually hurt his defenders more than anyone else.
2. His apology and admission took courage, character and fortitude. He easily could have tried to do the celebrity spin and deny, put out counter statements etc.
3. Anyone who has financed, produced, directed, starred in or enjoyed consuming viciously anti-Catholic/christian Hollywood fare like The DaVinci Code or V for Vendetta can keep quiet on judging Mel here lest you be called a hypocrite.
I still look forward to seeing Apocalypto as much as I did 48 hours ago.
Do I think it changes his stature in Hollywood. Not really. Hollywood already hated him. What it changes is how he is perceived by his defenders. Many people went to bat for him and feel very let down…myself included.
He is human. I still admire him as an artist although he does (like many artists) have a tortured soul.
I’ll say a prayer for him.
I do not think it will affect how he is perceived the public at large, that line was drawn a few years ago.
If Apocalypto does well, it will be forgotten…if it flops, he may be financing his own films for a while.
But I reiterate, given the history of Hollywood, they do not really have a place to judge his stupid act…but they will.
Nicol, bringing up The Da Vinci Code and V for Vendetta is a really silly way to change the subject.
“Anyone who has … enjoyed consuming viciously anti-Catholic/christian Hollywood fare like The DaVinci Code or V for Vendetta can keep quiet on judging Mel here lest you be called a hypocrite.”
Yes, shut your mouth. Keep quiet. How dare you enjoy those works of total fiction and have a view at the same time!
Sorry, I enjoyed DaVinci, Vendetta AND Passion, and I’ll judge Mel just as anyone else can and will. He has deep fears and reservations of the Jewish people (not surprising after the campaign launched against him two years ago) but is Man enough to admit that he does not “believe to be true and which are despicable”.
Many people will see the remarks as the problem here, but as someone who has known alcoholism throughout life, his self-control is the real issue.
Wowza! Another complex, nuanced, see all points of the story, glib 19 word post from JeffMCM.
Can you distil the mystery of the universe into 30 words for us JeffMCM?
Tofu,
No you can have a view.
You are just a hypocrite for it. And can the ‘it’s only fiction mantra’. It adds nothing to your argument…it only makes you seem like and intellectual simp.
Nicol, this is a blog. Long postings are useful for contributing to the never-ending monologue in one’s head, but not to a running dialogue. I don’t think DVC or V4V are anti-Catholic or anti-Christian. Anti-history and anti-intellectual in the first case, overrated and boring in the second, but that’s not the same.
But my point is, to hijack the thread by changing the subject is an obvious tactic.
Calling “V for Vendetta” “anti-Catholic/Christian” is giving entirely too much credit to its juvenile political posturing, and is an insult to those, like Voltaire, who were genuinely anti-Catholic.
DVC the movie is toned down compared to the book, which at least tries to be anti-Catholic. But there are no A’s for effort at this level, especially when you have to resort to falsehoods and misrepresentations to prove your anti-clerical credentials. That’s just lazy, and bad form to boot.
Intellectualism is being eaten away at by those who can’t see fiction from the real world. This is why judging a man by his art, and then by his actions outside have no difference to you, and why the label of ‘hypocrite’ fails to actually work.
Thus, I’ll be canning nothing. Your offensive and defensive movements to quiet opposition are transparent and useless.
Nicol just cut and pasted the same sentiments he added on Wells’ blog.
His defense of Catholic Molestation in those threads on Wells blog was an excellent example of the most distorted perception on reality in the name of one’s faith I’ve seen in awhile.
And as evidenced above, Nicol is a master at changing the point of contention in a discussion when he is clearly on the side with less merit or validity.
Lazarus: I was with you until you compared Gibson’s actions to that of Roman Polanski, going as far as to somehow justify Polanski. What that man did was far, far worse than anything Gibson is admitting.
I’m with you Josh.
That woman who was sexually abused and raped by Polanski is still suffering some trauma for it. (As evidenced by how she felt when she came out publicly around The Pianist)
And who knows how many others?
I went back to read Lazarus’ comment after Josh pointed it out; I missed it the first time.
That has to be one of the stupidest things anyone has ever said on this blog, and that’s saying something, as plenty of really inane, idiotic things have been said on here.
Agreed on the above, which raises the other point, how long has Mel been drinking? Because alcoholics don’t just ‘relapse’ and immediately get caught…they drink and drink until they get in trouble.
I can’t even think about DVC as anything but stupid at this point. But I would say that if Vendetta was about anything it was about not allowing our prejudices to rule the day and to wake up to the ways we victimize and are victimized by them… down to V not feeling himself worthy of pushing the final button, realizing his rage was bigger than his ability to be rational.
As for Nicol & J-Mc… please keep it about the ideas and not the personalities. As usual, J-Mc shot the first shot. But Nicol, you responded.
In my opinion, there is nothing wrong with saying that all of Hollywood is hyposcritical and that movies that Nic thinks are anti-Christian prove that. I disagree strongly with the anti-Christian thing. But it is a valid point and the movies mentioned are “showing the work.”
Fight over ideas, not individual personalities. Please.
DP, I believe you are mistaken. First of all, I do not consider that I have fired any ‘first shots’ at anybody ever, except possibly at you, and then that’s as a response to your initial blog posting. Second, I criticized his tactics, which is not the same as going after the person.
Who’s to say that people outside those that look for something on TMZ will ever have anyclue what Gibson said; even if we can believe what was leaked. What was on TMZ sounded exaggerated and half fabricated to me. It’s clear from Gibson’s statement that he probably said some shit to the officers, whether or not the rumor everyone here is treating as fact is 100% accurate is completely in question.
I doubt this will ever go anywhere outside of a few messageboards on the internet that found the gossip site.
Unless of course DP hammers at the story incessantly.
LATimes reported a DUI and bits of Gibson’s statement, nothing more, mainstream press will stay that course, I’m sure, and the tabloids will pick up the gossip story, forever taking away any possibility of legitimacy the story may have. The cops don’t want to get accused of slander, the mainstream press doesn’t want to get accused of libel, and the mainstream press wants the possibility of selling papers with exclusive interviews with Mel about his next starring role or film he’s directed. Mel’s last star role opened to 60 million, he’s still a pretty damn potent force playing either director or star. This will blow over for everyone else, I’m sure.
Getting all psychological here, I can’t help but think Gibson’s statements were indictative of some true self-loathing. In his inebriated state of mind, he said the worst thing he possibly could, something his enemies could use, just knowing his comments would probably come back and bite him in the ass.
Reading his statement, then, perhaps he’s telling the truth when he says he “said things that (he does) not believe to be true and which are despicable.”
If “The Passion” had never been made – and the controversy had obviously never happened – do you think he’d have said the same things? Because he had been a heavy drinker, and a celebrity for two decades previous, and nothing like that ever came out of his mouth.
Or am I just grasping here…?
That makes sense, in a self-destructive mode (as one would probably be in when drinking heavily and driving) one’s mind would probably turn towards what one’s perceived enemies have accused him of. The TMZ quote “I am so f—ed right now” seems more indicative of his thoughts, then leading him to say the worst stuff on the tip of his tongue as self-punishment.
I think the misunderstanding is that he said “Jews” when in fact he meant “Aztecs”
Mel is still an extremely powerful force as both an actor and director. The most interesting movie event I was looking forward too this year was Apocalypto. It would told us a lot about the power of his supporters and him as a director. After this it will much more interesting to watch how this all plays out. I personally think that the anti-Mel people will pounce and try to ruin him. I’m still gonna be there on opening day for Apocalytpo though.
Are people overstating Mel hatred, or are there really that many people who want to see him destroyed and will use this as an opportunity to try and make that happen?
there’s a joke about this that I could bring up here but I won’t. Sadly, this scenario will be on Leno and Letterman for weeks, it’s just too easy… I can hear them now. “And they’re still fighting in the middle east, but Mel Gibson blah blah blah.”
I both agree and disagree with everything said here. Ha! But really:
1) It’s not fair to get all riled about so much hearsay. And it’s a given that drunks say stupid things.
2) I don’t believe Mel writes as well as that apology is written. He shouldn’t get total demerits for the rumors of his drunken rants and he certainly shouldn’t get total credits for such a well-crafted mea culpa written by some no-doubt high-priced legal and/or publicity talent.
3) “Can we talk?” (J. Rivers) Does anyone NOT understand that MOST Christians, Muslims, and Jews are extremely irritating? Mel is one of them –a hyper-Christian sado-masochistic whack job (to judge basically from his “artistic” output).
These boneheads will be fighting amongst themselves as long as they draw breath and it’s just part of the world’s insanity. A whole pile o’ crap needs to be dumped back into some Middle Eastern sea.
4) Refusing to be part of it is a great virtue.
You know what
A couple things: apologizing isn’t some brave, admirable move for Gibson. To deny it would be foolish. Instead, he admits that what he said was despicable, and then calls it “untrue”. It’s a savvy move. “Oh yeah, I said Jews are the cause of all wars, but I was totally just making shit up!” Do you really believe that a contrite Gibson is sitting home right now, overwhelmed with guilt for getting drunk and spouting outlandish proclamations to public servants? Or does Gibson believe that stuff to be legitimate, and is only calling it despicable and untrue to save his ass?
What a hero.
As for my Polanski comment, which I knew would set off some of the hotheads around here, is there any way Polanski can cease to be a “child molester” in your eyes, short of throwing himself on the mercy of the (possibly just as corrupt as it was when he was initially arraigned) California penal system and spending the rest of his life in prison? Roman Polanski sexually abusing one girl does not make him a serial rapist or a menace to society. It was an act that I’m sure he deeply regrets. My point was that he has moved on from that and now has what looks to be a fuctional family with his own children.
Gibson’s crime, however, is one that isn’t on the books. It reveals a long-standing prejudice that can do a lot more damage than one might realize. The woman who Polanski abused may still be suffering effects from the trauma. I don’t recall her mentioning that when the story was in the news a few years ago, but I do remember that she said Polanski should be forgiven and the charges dropped. What’s worse, creating one woman’s personal demons or fueling anti-Semitism, however subtlely, in in all the weak-minded people who watched The Passion of the Christ around the world, particularly in the Muslim countries where tensions are already high, who accepted it as a legitimate document?
I was trying to make a comparison for perspective’s sake.
If memory serves me correctly, this is not the first time MG has been stopped by the cops while driving under the influence. I believe his first bust (well, OK, the first bust after he attained some celebrity) was in Canada during the filminig of “Mrs. Soffel.” This guy has needed help for a long time. For his sake, I hope this latest public humiliation is enough to make him get serious about getting help.
Well Joe, we’ve got really good beer up in Canada, so it probably really impaired his judgment that time.
Anyhow, back on point – I don’t think that there is anyone in the world who can point a finger at Mel and say, “You’re a bad person.” The fact of the matter is that we’ve all done at least one or two asinine things in life that we shouldn’t have done. At least he was big enough to not try and blow it off via spin. I have to admire him for his statement, especially in light of what he said to the police officers.
I still am dying to see Apocalypto. That hasn’t changed.
True enough: Moose Head Beer is damn near fatal when consumed in large quantities. Almost as harsh as that Colt 45 stuff Dave drinks.
“TMZ has learned that Deputy Mee audiotaped the entire exchange between himself and Gibson, from the time of the traffic stop to the time Gibson was put in the patrol car, and that the tape fully corroborates the written report.”
That tape could have a lot to do with Gibson (or his representatives) releasing a statement acknowledging his behavior and admitting that he is “deeply ashamed” of everything he said. I wonder if the tape will ever be made public. (Hell, I wonder if the tape exists.)
I do hope Mel gets the appropriate help. He seems to be a rare type: the high-profile, talented celebrity who will listen to others when he goes off the rails.
What is with the admiration for his statement? What choice did he have? What did you expect? Reads like a standard celebrity apology to me.
Is there any way Polanski can cease to be a “child molester” in your eyes, short of throwing himself on the mercy of the (possibly just as corrupt as it was when he was initially arraigned) California penal system and spending the rest of his life in prison?
For me, absolutely not. Same goes for Victor Salva (whom I believed served a prison term).
I think if you’re guilty of child rape, that’s one stigma that has to follow you.
So be it Eddie, but Gibson claiming that he said things he does not believe doesn’t relieve him of the title of “Jew-Hater”.
I imagine that stigma will be following him for quite some time as well.
just out of curiousity (and not being sarcastic here) has anyone here said things they “don’t” believe when smashed? Drunk off my ass I’ll say things in public that I would probably not even say in private. But I can’t think of any situation where I started making up fake stances on political or social issues due to excessive alcohol consumption. It just feels like a severe copout.
I agree that the alcohol excuse seems like a total copout.
Gibson claiming that he said things he does not believe doesn’t relieve him of the title of “Jew-Hater”.
Absolutely, I agree.
..unless Gibson likes war (heck..he’s been in his fair share of battle movies), in which case maybe his words were of praise?
A stunning twist!
Nothing good can come of this. The whole nasty event can be used as an excuse for people who already hate Gibson to unleash their righteous fury. Tom Cruise still has to recover from the world going crazy when he jumped on Oprah’s couch, for crying out loud.
I’ve never been a Gibson fan. I did like the first two installments of Lethal Weapon, but I can’t say I’ve seen Braveheart, POTC, or Mad Max. I also thought Signs blew, but that was mostly Symalalamalan’s fault. I did not know of Gibson’s religious beliefs until Passion, so I hated him retrospectively for being on board with Shymalamandan’s B.S. religious head beating in the aforementioned picture.
Cain,
Mad Max and The Road Warriror are the two Gibson films most worth watching.
As for this whole incident thing, I think them Jewish Centurion Malibu cops is behind it all the way. “Recordings” don’t prove nothing. They got machines that put voices and even pitchers on tapes, y’know. Never underestimitate the Jews and their will to bring a good man down.
ps
Lazarus, this is for you:
http://www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/deep.html
Feel free to call me an asshole.
“3. Anyone who … enjoyed consuming viciously anti-Catholic/christian Hollywood fare like The DaVinci Code or V for Vendetta can keep quiet on judging Mel here lest you be called a hypocrite.”
I hated The Passion of the Christ (D-) only a bit more than V For Vendetta (D+) and I didn’t see Da Vinci. Can I now call Mel out on anything I choose?
“That woman who was sexually abused and raped by Polanski is still suffering some trauma for it. (As evidenced by how she felt when she came out publicly around The Pianist)”
Lol, wasn’t she paid by Miramax or whoever to come out against The Pianist?
I seriously reckon people are putting way too much stock in the public. Seriously, most people won’t give two hoots about this. Yes, Hollywood people and entertainment followers (such as people at this blog) will care and have their opinion, but I bet if you asked a random person on the straight they would say something to the effect of “I don’t really care.”
“I think if you’re guilty of child rape, that’s one stigma that has to follow you.”
I totally agree with this statement. The problem with Polanski is that he fled before the trial so the only thing we can do is try to decide if his behaviour means he’s guilty or if it’s just the reaction of an innocent man panicking because of the gravity of the accusations.
Once there is a doubt, as little as it might be, people will always believe who they want to believe.
“And does this change the release plans for Apocalypto?” Did they change the release of Cinderella Man after the Crowe phone-throwing incident? Did they change the release of War of the Worlds after Cruise started bouncing on the couch? Going further back, the box office for that Nine Months movie was actually probably better after Hugh Grant got caught with his pants down. So of course not – what Gibson said and did was utterly wrong but he was, after all, not in his right mind, and he at least is prepared, like Crowe and Grant before him, to do the mea culpa tour. But when you bring up the ethnic / religious aspects of his behaviour, then it touches a far deeper nerve than getting down with a hooker or hurling a phone at a surly clerk. So it remains to be seen how it will affect his career long-term. Funny thing is, i can see it being longer now before he decides to return in front of the camera. I have always liked Gibson, infact last week i happened to watch We Were Soldiers again for the first time since it’s release, i think it was the last but-one movie he starred in. It’s not quite the best movie in the world, and much of the dialogue is leaden, but the action and cinematography are aces, and above all else it’s anchored by the strong, charismatic presence of a real leading man, something we’ve been denied since Gibson’s self-imposed exile. We live in a world where the likes of Ashton Kutcher and Josh Lucas can pass themselves off as movie stars, which just reinforces why we badly need Gibson back in front of the camera where he belongs. I only hope that he’ll be welcomed back. This incident does make me wonder just how much of the wild-eyed fury of William Wallace and Martin Riggs was actually performance though…….
Wasn’t We Were Soldiers the Vietnam movie that was shot in Golden Gate Park?
I love the scene in which Mel’s platoon is ambushed by geese at Stowe Lake. Those little bastards will take your hand off for a piece of stale popcorn.
The Newark Star-Ledger hyped Mel’s rant on the top of the front page today.
I’d love to see the Liberal Media when Donald Wildmon goes off on another one of his “Hollywood is Run by Jews” rants.
Maybe my memory is playing tricks on me — won’t be the first time — but didn’t the woman once molested (well, OK, sodomized) by Polanski break her silence during the “Piano” hype to say she actually FORGAVE Polanski, not to dis him?
she did indeed Joe, but I believe she had said then, and before that forgiving someone doesn;t change the fact that he knowling gave a quaalude and alcohol to an eighth grader for the purposes of tricking or coercing sex out of her. Still all illegal actions. I think he’s a talented director but no less a criminal who never faced his charges like normal people have to. Even Michael Jackson faced his charges and he’s way more famous than Polanski.
He did?
He went to court Jeff. He may not have faced it in a personal sense but he still had to appear in court although no doubt he will flee/stay out of the country no doubt if he is expecting other shit to hit the fan.
I think the court would have been/ would be more lenient with RP given the horrible manner of murder that his heavily pregnant wife endured through absolutely no fault of his own. His fleeing the country and still not returning just makes him look more guilty or maybe he feared other things coming to light. Natassia Kinski says she had sex with him when she was an eigth grader, so who knows who else.
Polanski was set to make a plea bargain to dodge a prison sentence, a deal that the judge apparently changed at the last minute. At that point, he fled.
Eric is correct. Even the D.A. was outraged that the Judge reneged on the plea bargain.
Personally, I think this is just Mel’s first step in gearing up for a run at the GOP Presidential nomination in ’08. š
Judges, unfortunatley for most, are allowed to change their minds, at least in the state I’m in, they do it all the time when they claim they have new information/reconsideration–I’ve seen it dozens of times. I’m not saying the judge in that case should have, I’m saying Polanski should not have left the country. Most people don;t have the luxury of international flight and protection of powerful friends, regardless, and the charges still stood. Polanski was concerned about a fair trial/incarceration, but isn;t everyone? I am sure the 13 yr old was concerned about justice too, and any young person put in that position.
“Personally, I think this is just Mel’s first step in gearing up for a run at the GOP Presidential nomination in ’08. ;-)”
Take that smile off your face Cadavra. š Not funny. Can Mel run? Did he give up US citizenship or is he dual with Ausl?
Imagine Mel as the gubernator or Prez. We’d have pogroms in this country. Or maybe he’d give Jews one state to live in as long as they “behaved” and didn’t interfere with his Important Plans of depicting cultres as He sees them.
Plea bargains are not binding on judges, something both plaintiff and defendant are aware of.
That is true, Blackcloud, but that still doesn’t make it right. All parties agreed to the terms of the plea (remember, the girl didn’t want to press charges; it was her mother who did), as all felt that it wouldn’t serve the public interest to put Polanski in prison for a non-violent crime. The judge reneged because he had political ambitions and saw this as a useful tool of self-promotion. At 5’4″ and convicted as a “molester,” Polanski would’ve been dead within a week in the slammer; he had no choice but to flee.
“remember, the girl didn’t want to press charges; it was her mother who did”
In her status as a minor it wouldn;t be up to her–the reason she was duped, drugged, coerced(a person doesn;t have to be beat up to be coerced, especially not minors) was because she wasn;t old enough/informed enough to make decisions.
He wouldn’t be dead in the slammer–unlikely. He’d meet hundreds like himself. And like most people, famous or not, he would have gotten out in way less time than what he was given. The average murderer served less than five years in those days of overcrowding, before Reagan’s hosuing program started up (also know as New Prisons).
None is compelling enough to convince me that he did wrong on two counts–the orginal charges and fleeing the justice system.
How many thousands would flee put in the same situation as is the case Every Year in California. If there is corruption, fight it, appeal it. That’s what everybody else had to do and has to do and he had friends with money and influence.
Polanski isn;t above the law because he’s a famous director and short.
sorry …should say “nothing” is compelling enough to convince me that he “Didn’t” do wrong
“Polanski would’ve been dead within a week in the slammer; he had no choice but to flee.”
It’s hard to tell what is the more speculative claim: that Polanski would have been dead within a week; or that he had to flee. Neither is supported by any evidence, hence both are groundless and unwarranted, not to mention illogical.
Poor anti-semitic, homophobic, misogynistic Gibson. Boohoohoohoo.
I’m sorry to say that I spent a lot of my younger years around alcoholics. And they tend to say what they truly believe only when they are drunk.
When they are sober, they will tell you and others about how much they love you. But once they’re drunk, they start telling you how much they hate you. It’s the drunktalk that’s the real truth.
I can’t imagine why Mel would start ranting about Jews during a traffic stop. I’m afraid this is going to ruin things for “Apocalypto,” which I really want to see. I don’t think Mel can go on the Leno show and apologize the way Hugh Grant did. There’s a big difference between Hugh’s “I like sex with Hollywood hookers” and Mel’s “I hate Hollywood Jews.”
Mel needs to check himself into Betty Ford. Let some reality TV cameras be with him the whole time. Sell the series to VH1 or E! or MTV. If he can stay on the wagon for a couple of years, then he might redeem himself.
“LATimes reported a DUI and bits of Gibson’s statement, nothing more, mainstream press will stay that course, I’m sure, and the tabloids will pick up the gossip story, forever taking away any possibility of legitimacy the story may have.”
Wrong.
http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/la-fi-gibson31jul31,1,986783.story?coll=la-headlines-entnews
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/5230480.stm
http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/wireStory?id=2254853
…and several hundred others, all from the MSM, reporting both aspects of the story.
Do people say stupid things while drunk? Yes.
Do they say things they absolutely don’t believe out of the blue? No. In vino veritas.
Is there any excuse for Gibson not to have recognized his alcohol problem and have sought treatment well before this, much less driving with a .12? Fuck, no. It’s a miracle he didn’t kill anybody.
Do his anti-semitic comments surprise me? Not particularly.
Do they make me sad? Very.
The really shocking–and way underreported–aspect of the story is that this was purportedly the THIRD time Gibson was pulled over for speeding while drunk in Malibu in the past couple of years. Both previous times he was let go, presumably because he was MEL GIBSON. God bless Deputy Mee for doing his job.
Blackcloud: Child molestation is considered the one unforgivable crime among criminals. Check out the play/movie SHORT EYES for a horrifying dramatization of this. It’s easy to be glib about these things, but Polanski WOULD have been killed in prison, no doubt about it.
Child molesters might not be popular in prison, but celebrity directors with rich and famous friends tend to also not receive the most brutal treatment. Plus, it wouldn’t have looked good for that judge’s political future (as mentioned above) if his high-profile pedophile defendant had ended up a corpse. Polanski wouldn’t have had fun, but he has survived worse in his screwed-up life.
Cadavra: Your insight into alternative futures is astounding. Are you a Jedi or something?
Cadavra: That’s a truly moronic statement. So all child molesters are killed in prison?
Lynn: First, blowing a .12 isn’t actually that much. It surprised me it was that LOW, him going off like that.
Second, I’ve said many things I didn’t believe were true when I’ve been drunk. Trust me, all of those ladies weren’t attractive.
Excusing what Gibson said because he was drunk is such a crock of shit. Have you gone on a racist, hateful tirade while drunk? Happen a lot? Blackcloud, do you just wait for another opportunity to pounce on Cadavra? Cause that appears to be all you do aroud here. I’d like to read your actual thoughts, rather than yet another attack.
I don’t know if Polanski would be sure to die in prison… but child molesters are hated in prison, often killed, and as a celebrity child molester, would at the least be uniquely abused.
“Second, I’ve said many things I didn’t believe were true when I’ve been drunk. Trust me, all of those ladies weren’t attractive.”
Saying things like that which you don’t believe are true is one thing. Making totally unprovoked, specific statements about a religion/ethnic group — completely out of nowhere — is another. If you were drunk in a bar and hit on a woman you wouldn’t usually find attractive so that she’d sleep with you — that’s one thing. Your lies had an agenda and a context. š
If you were drunk in a bar and started ranting — when nobody was discussing it — that all members of X group are evil, the next day, I’d still believe that was what you thought even if you denied it.
The only reasonable explanation to me for Gibson’s statements is that they reflect his deeply held feelings, which he doesn’t usually express because he knows they are totally unacceptable, and indeed, as he has said, contradictory to the doctrine of his church. The alcohol just loosened his tongue enough to get past the social taboo against expressing those beliefs.
And his apology sucked.
Dave I believe if it were a five year old boy, yes Polanski might be beaten to death, but because it was a female over 12, and he would be in good company (you should see how many are “inside”) I don;t think he would have been killed, and he would likely have gotten out quickly.
Unfortunatley to convicts (I have done alot of prison volunteering) there is a dividing line on who deserves to get killed in prison, and molesting older girls is not viewed as seriously as very young girls and boys.
It’s not an apology Lynne! It’s a cover-my-ass!
My last comment to Cadavra was rude and uncalled for. I apologize for that.
My point, which I should have expressed clearly and not ad hominem, is that Cadavra can’t say with any certainty that Polanski would have been murdered if he’d gone to prison. Was it possible? Yes. But it’s also possible he’d have served his time and emerged unscathed. There’s no way to know. That’s all.
Josh Massey raises an interesting issue, however, one which I also thought of: if child molesters are so reviled in prison (which I will grant, it’s a given of prison life), how come we never hear of child molesters routinely being offed in prison? If that were happening, there’d be no need for sex offender registries, as there’d be no one to register. Is it an urban legend of prison life?
Blackcloud, molesters and distributors of pornography of very young children do experience more than average harsh treatment by prisoners and staff in prison. Murders in prison are pretty rare versus the number of people moving through. If the molester is a child killer, then they really get beat on, and that is a problem in most states.
Sometimes molesters deliberately pick fights or become bullies so they will be put in solitary, if they are even afforded it.
The bigger problem is how Short prison stays are given the severity of some of the crimes.
If you have a Offender register in your state you can look through it to get information on many of these aspects.
Well, this all kinda speaks to Nicol’s issues re: hypocrisy, no?
Do any of us really know muc, hear much, or report much about what really happens in America’s prisons?
“Well, this all kinda speaks to Nicol’s issues re: hypocrisy, no?”
How so Dave?
And why would you report much on what happens in Prisons herein? It is a movie blog afterall.
To know what happens in courts, in prisons, in veteran’s benefits, in poverty, one has to spend alot of time *really* volunteering directly and most people don;t have the time or the inclination because it isn;t pretty and quite Dickensian.
It’s too bad really too, it’s the only way things change is by the Insiders to a good and safe life being willing to help ‘Outsiders’ of society. Maybe Mel can do that as his pennance and put his money where his loud mouth is. Everyone can change for the better.
I know nothing of prison except what I’ve seen in “Oz.” So nothing. However, I did hear a radio interview a while back with a longtime prisoner, and he said that many things we hear – and he specifically mentioned child molesters get harsher treatment – are urban legends. He said, and I paraphrase, there are no such romantic ideals among prisoners.
Mel’s mug shot, by the way:
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0731062melmug1.html
When did mug shot photographers get so good? On a nearby page, the Rush Limbaugh photo could practically be his official headshot. (Not Mel’s, he looks charming and happy but he’s a little too sweaty).
As far as that goes, I’ve always liked Tom DeLay’s.
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/mugshots/tomdelaymug1.html
Blackcloud, apology accepted. And no, I don’t claim any Jedi-like powers to see the future. I suppose I could’ve been a little less “certain,” but you add up the facts–Hollywood celebrity, short stature, foreigner, wife famously murdered, fucks little girls–and the prognosis would have been dire indeed. Don’t forget what happened to Jeffrey Dahmer–and THAT dude was crazy!
BTW: V for Vendetta is still not anti-Catholic. Did Nicol even see the movie? Please point out one thing besides the cross of Lorraine which can be interpreted as anti-Catholic. (Before you mention the bishop, he is clearly from the Church of England.)
And the use of the cross can be cut both ways — Nicol has chosen to see it portrayed as an evil symbol by the filmmakers. It can just as easily be interpreted as a symbol of good which has been coopted by evil. It’s not as if that’s never happened, is it.
Please get over your persecution complex. The Catholic Church claims — what, over a billion members? It runs a sovereign state. It has immense financial resources. Its leader is one of the most powerful people in the world at any given time. Its views are taken seriously and given according coverage by the press — indeed, despite any lack of logic in those views (e.g., condom use to prevent transmitting AIDS between married couples). Please quit acting like the Catholic Church is some downtrodden minority subject to constant discrimination and harrassment. You seem to know nothing about what real discrimination or harrassment are actually like. Try spend a week walking around with a yarmulke or Sikh turban on, and then we’ll talk about what religious discrimination actually feels like.
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