I Was Writing…
… an elaborate explanation of why Dennis McDougal’s The Departed piece in Sunday’s NYT was such shite… but the computer ate my homework. Here is the short version…
Nicholson had two massive comedy hits in 2003.
Scorsese
May 6, 2024
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It shows how out of it I was in trying to be in it, acknowledging that I was out of it to myself, and then thinking, “Okay, how do I stop being out of it? Well, I get some legitimate illogical narrative ideas” ā some novel, you know?
So I decided on three writers that I might be able to option their material and get some producer, or myself as producer, and then get some writer to do a screenplay on it, and maybe make a movie.
And so the three projects were “Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep,” “Naked Lunch” and a collection of Bukowski. Which, in 1975, forget it ā I mean, that was nuts. Hollywood would not touch any of that, but I was looking for something commercial, and I thought that all of these things were coming.
There would be no Blade Runner if there was no Ray Bradbury. I couldn’t find Philip K. Dick. His agent didn’t even know where he was. And so I gave up.
I was walking down the street and I ran into Bradbury ā he directed a play that I was going to do as an actor, so we know each other, but he yelled “hi” ā and I’d forgot who he was.
So at my girlfriend Barbara Hershey’s urging ā I was with her at that moment ā she said, “Talk to him! That guy really wants to talk to you,” and I said “No, fuck him,” and keep walking.
But then I did, and then I realized who it was, and I thought, “Wait, he’s in that realm, maybe he knows Philip K. Dick.” I said, “You know a guy namedā” “Yeah, sure ā you want his phone number?”
My friend paid my rent for a year while I wrote, because it turned out we couldn’t get a writer. My friends kept on me about, well, if you can’t get a writer, then you write.”
~ Hampton Fancher
“That was the most disappointing thing to me in how this thing was played. Is that Iām on the phone with you now, after all thatās been said, and the fundamental distinction between what James is dealing with in these other cases is not actually brought to the fore. The fundamental difference is that James Franco didnāt seek to use his position to have sex with anyone. Thereās not a case of that. He wasnāt using his position or status to try to solicit a sexual favor from anyone. If he had ā if that were what the accusation involved ā the show would not have gone on. We would have folded up shop and we would have not completed the show. Because then it would have been the same as Harvey Weinstein, or Les Moonves, or any of these cases that are fundamental to this new paradigm. Did you not notice that? Why did you not notice that? Is that not something notable to say, journalistically? Because nobody could find the voice to say it. Iām not just being rhetorical. Why is it that you and the other critics, none of you could find the voice to say, āYou know, itās not this, itās thatā? Because ā let me go on and speak further to this. If you go back to the L.A. TimesĀ piece, thatās what it lacked. Thatās what they were not able to deliver. The one example in the five that involved an issue of a sexual act was between James and a woman he was dating, who he was not working with. There was no professional dynamic in any capacity.
~ David Simon
Holy shit!! That was Ray Winstone playing Mr. French!? No wonder he was so great…didn’t even recognize him.
the problem with modern journalism is that the writers no longer have any sense of a) history or b) the average film goer. they’re all mired knee deep in media and the internet, when it’s been proven time and time again that the internet does not equal box office. when entertainment reporters and film journalists cannot see outside the ‘hype bubble’ of NY, LA, and the Internet, as well as report more to marketing than the actual story elements, performances, and artistry, then the game is over before it started.
entertainment journalism is going the way of Extra and Access Hollywood, more interested in Paris Hilton’s ragged vagina than a quality filmmaker trying something new.
this guy reads like a total fucktard. it amazes me what passes as writing these days.
Dave, have you seen the original Infernal Affairs? If yes, how the Departed stands besides the original?
And how cool would be a “The Departed 2” with Jack and Martin as the main characters?
Thanks š
SPOILER IN THIS COMMENT
MAJOR SPOILER
SPOILER (note added by DP)
that would be impossible as Jack and Martin’s characters die in the movie. Dave, I laughed myself silly over those last lines in that article. You’d think a responsible journalist would do some homework before writing a piece about the movie the two subjects are in.
Fuck you very much, Couchjumper. The goddamn movie hasn’t opened yet.
I agree with Josh Massey. Fuck you, CouchJumper.
So full of yourselves, you can’t see the angle of the story even when it’s hand fed to you: “it is the Nicholson-Scorsese match-up that catches the eye, and reminds us how much the game has changed in the last decade.” Keep the other pitches coming here, they all sound like good angles for other articles. The writing’s good:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/17/movies/17mcdo.html
Jack would be disappointed if you felt he hadn’t made the we all are act accordingly line his own.
Thanks, Couchjumper, you prick.
That was so wrong dick weed, is Tyler666 your evil twin?
Well, it is clear here who has no idea who kicks the bucket, or who knows what Infernal Affairs 2 was about.
Let’s just say, there is some bad information here.
Dave, you keep alluding to a theory that MySpace is on its way out, or is not important. Care to elaborate? The way you look down on Myspace is awfully weird for a guy who accuses old media of not “getting” the internet.
What is DP doing up at 3 or 6 ayem-shoot me- trying to write? He’s really become a Li-Lo, like he confessed at the beginning of Toronto.
I think he means that MySpace is on its way to commodification and the kids are-alright will move on.
Wasn’t Step Up sold on myspace? Had to help.
Is it so hard to type a.m. or even am rather than using hipsterisms?
Hey! Roger Freidman thinks “The Departed” is great. In fact, he says it “rocks.”
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,214255,00.html
Maybe David now will say some nice things about him, you think?
Why start with Roger? This list of people he’ll have to say nice things about will be grossly long.
Jeffmcm, I’m a monkey. See, then do. It’s like the ending to a prayer. Amen. ayem/piem
The most interesting thing about Roger Friedman is how wide his jaw can open.
Please, Joe, next time quote someone more legit… like Earl Dittman.
THUng pretty much has my position on MySpace.
But even in the immediate… can anyone name a single movie about which it can a reasonsibly said that its MySpace launch meant a single ticket sold at the box office?
MySpace is a less significant player, in reality, than AICN, since at least AICN has focus and passion. AICN has maybe 1% of the MySpace audience, but much more clout in terms of a real response in genre films because it’s not just an ad. Still, I would argue that the clout of AICN is minimal because its core audience is pre-sold anyway.
YouTube is not a marketing platform, it’s a distribution platform. It is surely the place you would put “viral video” for a film now. But is that really influential or are participants making choices and sending the clip to friends as they would if it were on Yahoo! or Apple trailers or wherever?
What people still don’t get about the HOT internet sites is that just because they have eyeballs does not make them an effective marketing tool. They need to be able to convert. And I have zero indication of conversion. Screen Gems was converting kids on the web for years before MySpace existed.
The tyranny of the new prays most horribly on the fear of the old – old tech and old(er) people. Every studio in town is chasing cellphone trailering, movies, etc… and they are all crazy. But the fear wins. If someone else succeeds once with a new technology or the appearance of the use of new tech, they look like jerks with a fear of new tech. But the truth is, just because the media repeats it over and over doesn’t make it real. The Time-Warner/AOL merger always sucked. The Slump was always a manipulative illusion. Matrix Reloaded was a $750 million smash. And Eli Roth is not a good director.
The same holds true for you as well, DP.
DP, you don’t sell movie tickets, darn. And your writing’s fine, I meant no offense, it’s not like anyone else can take on McDougal (whoever he is) in such a robust way.
This just in: The chief executive of CBS has apparently ruled out buying Facebook and YouTube, citing the price tag as the main reason for not purchasing either of these social networks.
(MSNBC) Mr Moonves said social networking was an important phenomenon and CBS had looked at Facebook and YouTube,
YouTube is _not_ worth $1 billion. Their site is not and will not be sufficiently unique, especially in the future when it’s going to be painfully easy to post videos or whatever online.
Thanks for posting that spoiler, David… that comment really could ruin the movie for some who haven’t seen the original.
“…just because the media repeats it over and over doesn’t make it real.”
Then is there any chance we can start a movement here to say Miami Vice was a hit deserving of two more sequels?
Dave, didn’t the studio use myspace heavily to sell Step Up? I’m not exactly sure how. I just remember reading a little about that after it opened so much better than it was expected to. Maybe a lot of teen girls just added Channing Tatum to their friends list.
Nicol, isn’t that a tacit admission that MV was therefore _not_ deserving of any sequels?
That idea could have gone somewhere if things were slow Nicol, like in August. I think blogs and columns and reviews on-line do sell tickets. Someone needs to do a large scale market penetration study of first run movie consumers.
Stella, that was Touchstone (Disney/ABC/ABC Family, home of High School Musical) where they synergized the movie. So yeah, so what they had a lot of friends on myspace.
Obviously I was being tongue in cheek. I loved the MV to death, but I am quite aware that for
a while, it will be seen as the Heaven’s Gate of summer 2006. Sad, because it was in fact the best film of the season.
Yeah, I think I’d stand by that.
I didn’t imply that it was a big deal that they had a lot of myspace friends. That was actually a joke. I am familiar with High School Musical and the way it was synergized. Newsweek had a big story about that recently. I recall reading something about myspace and Step Up as well. As well as that one opened, it might have helped.
MV hasn’t destroyed anybody’s career, so it’s not as bad as Heaven’s Gate.
I still just don’t get that movie’s appeal at all.
Have I ever suggested that I am a marketing tool that makes or breaks movies?
Oddly, I think that I – and others – are evolving into what critics used to be… influencers by argument amongst the core elite in the industry and media.
I still feel, in most circumstances, that my opinion can be counted on not as definitive, but as a clear representation of one side of the argument to come. It is rare that I feel my opinion is “their” opinion or that it must be.
What the press and public feel are not in any way under my control or in any way my responsibility, unless I choose to report on that reaction string. Nor, to answer an e-mail I got during Toronto, should I be trying to service readership primarly on what they want. That way lies madness.
As for MySpace and Step Up… it’s a lot like Blair Witch, which was not really an internet phenomenon, no matter how many times that spin is repeated and how much attention it grabbed for the web, including me. MySpace was a good story. But doesn’t Kevin Smith have more “friends” on MySpace? And didn’t Step Up nearly outgross Clerks II’s total on opening weekend?
Box Office, like religion, is often the search for an answer to what we don’t understand. Any web hype in a storm.
Oh shit, im sorry if some dork has fucked up the ending…i only asked this because infernal affairs 2 ( yeah, there are 3 infernal affairs…) is a prequel, where you see how martin and jack’s characters have a loooong story together before the
action of the first film. Kinda of Godfather II.
I though that anybody would know that the sequel is a prequel…sorry, and peace š
True that Dave concerning myspace, Step Up and Clerks II. I just wondered if myspace didn’t help Step Up at least a little, since it really came out of nowhere and shocked pretty much everyone its opening weekend. I don’t think it opened the movie on its own.
Was Monster House helped by Myspace? MH was also all over myspace a couple weeks before release.
Myspace is an easy way to keep up with pals, especially if they are in the music business, but I have to confess I never paid any of the movie adverts the least bit of attention (except to notice they were there).
That shows a fundamental misunderstanding about how Myspace works. It’s not just about how many “friends” the movie or director has…it’s more about the fact that millions of people check into Myspace multiple times a day, that some teenagers are logged into Myspace even more than they watch television, and are susceptible to ultra-prevalent advertising on every page. Imagine watching a television show where the commercials never went away, where they were stripped over the picture you were watching. That is the power of Myspace. When X3 came out, for instance, the color of the Myspace home page was silver, the X3 ad was on every single page I clicked on, X3 was the featured profile for weeks, etc. YouTube does not have an advertising model, and that’s why people are leery. MySpace DOES have one, and it’s killer.
And DP, if you’re going to argue that internet ads don’t convert into ticket-buying, why does MCN sell them?
Because they convert into money in DP’s pocket.
James, does that put butts in seats? Dollar for dollar, does it do a better job than tv ads on Disney Cable Network Channels and magazine ads in hentai weekly? Would anyone repeat a SoaP marketing strategy?
If you ask me, internet chat does more for ticket buying than internet ads do.
Hey, because of MySpace, I just got tickets to see “Borat” on Wednesday. So it’s not all bad.
By chat, I mean long-lead stories and reviews. Isn’t it true that trendy young people multertain, they watch tv and movies, with music on, while surfing and IM’ing and text messaging and talking on the phone, and browsing magazines, so don’t you have to hit them everywhere?
Yes, Leer… I understand what MySapce is. And the difference between that and Yahoo! or Google or an outdoor campaign or wild postings is????
I can’t speak for all MCN advertisers, but I would guess they are primarily interested in promoting themselves to the industry by advertising with us.
Do you really think that X3 was sold by MySpace? Any other examples?
How does any piece of advertising work except by creating and maintaining awareness?
“I understand what MySapce is. And the difference between that and Yahoo! or Google or an outdoor campaign or wild postings is????
That’s what I’m asking. You are implying that Myspace’s 15 minutes are about to be up…do you think that of Yahoo and Google and outdoor campaigns and wild postings as well? I would argue that Myspace is as entrenched a way of reaching people as the other options are. If you don’t agree, I’m curious as to why.
I’m not saying X3 was ONLY sold by Myspace. But yes, I think Myspace ads helped in the case of that film, as well as Step Up. I mean, are you really implying that Myspace ads do not translate into even a single ticket sale? That is what I am hearing from the statement “Can anyone name a single movie about which it can a reasonsibly said that its MySpace launch meant a single ticket sold at the box office?” Which is more than a little hyperbolic to me.
Well, Leer, don’t you think the obsession with MySpace is more than just another billboard style ad opportunity?
So MySpace is the niche for girls, UGO for boys, and Yahoo! for the over 30s?
Of course, it is slightly hyperolic. But has a MySpace ad actually ever converted to a ticket sale? Or do you agree that it’s just another simple, not terribly effective adjunct to TV and trailers?
DP, you seem to be arguing in of zero-sum terms. While there are certainly some factors that will ‘convert’ a ticket sale (starpower, good trailers, etc) there are other forms of advertising that are just there to collectively saturate the target demographic. I don’t know that billboards ‘convert’ anyone to do anything either.
UGO? Hey, DP, at least say IGN if you’re gonna be all down with the web portals! š
…but MySpace isn’t girl-dominated, not really. Nor do I think it is going to burn out anytime soon, as its many millions of users are far too invested in it. But there is one argument where you’re close: I would argue that it is a simple, EFFECTIVE adjunct to TV and trailers. If you had to place a web ad to hit that desired 18-35 demo, you could scarcely get a better bang for your buck.
Didn’t we all agree that Step Up‘s success was because of it’s trailer being on the High School Musical DVD.
Fuck…
My eyes still caught the spoiler while trying to skip it and go to the next post.
I very much appreciate the effort though.