More Love For The Departed
After seeing The Departed twice in NY this weekend, I took a look at Infernal Affairs on DVD last night
April 26, 2024
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It shows how out of it I was in trying to be in it, acknowledging that I was out of it to myself, and then thinking, “Okay, how do I stop being out of it? Well, I get some legitimate illogical narrative ideas” — some novel, you know?
So I decided on three writers that I might be able to option their material and get some producer, or myself as producer, and then get some writer to do a screenplay on it, and maybe make a movie.
And so the three projects were “Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep,” “Naked Lunch” and a collection of Bukowski. Which, in 1975, forget it — I mean, that was nuts. Hollywood would not touch any of that, but I was looking for something commercial, and I thought that all of these things were coming.
There would be no Blade Runner if there was no Ray Bradbury. I couldn’t find Philip K. Dick. His agent didn’t even know where he was. And so I gave up.
I was walking down the street and I ran into Bradbury — he directed a play that I was going to do as an actor, so we know each other, but he yelled “hi” — and I’d forgot who he was.
So at my girlfriend Barbara Hershey’s urging — I was with her at that moment — she said, “Talk to him! That guy really wants to talk to you,” and I said “No, fuck him,” and keep walking.
But then I did, and then I realized who it was, and I thought, “Wait, he’s in that realm, maybe he knows Philip K. Dick.” I said, “You know a guy named—” “Yeah, sure — you want his phone number?”
My friend paid my rent for a year while I wrote, because it turned out we couldn’t get a writer. My friends kept on me about, well, if you can’t get a writer, then you write.”
~ Hampton Fancher
“That was the most disappointing thing to me in how this thing was played. Is that I’m on the phone with you now, after all that’s been said, and the fundamental distinction between what James is dealing with in these other cases is not actually brought to the fore. The fundamental difference is that James Franco didn’t seek to use his position to have sex with anyone. There’s not a case of that. He wasn’t using his position or status to try to solicit a sexual favor from anyone. If he had — if that were what the accusation involved — the show would not have gone on. We would have folded up shop and we would have not completed the show. Because then it would have been the same as Harvey Weinstein, or Les Moonves, or any of these cases that are fundamental to this new paradigm. Did you not notice that? Why did you not notice that? Is that not something notable to say, journalistically? Because nobody could find the voice to say it. I’m not just being rhetorical. Why is it that you and the other critics, none of you could find the voice to say, “You know, it’s not this, it’s that”? Because — let me go on and speak further to this. If you go back to the L.A. Times piece, that’s what it lacked. That’s what they were not able to deliver. The one example in the five that involved an issue of a sexual act was between James and a woman he was dating, who he was not working with. There was no professional dynamic in any capacity.
~ David Simon
AGREED.
But I seriously doubt the screenplay even gets a nomination, let alone ends up in the hunt for the win. It’s old Marty, therefore, non-Academy-friendly Marty.
But – otherwise – AGREED. I feel like I’m on a coke high after tonight’s screening.
That I will put money on, Kris.
Screenwriters vote for screenplay. They will get it.
Next time I see you, put your money where your mouth is. I have one healthy bet on every year’s Oscar race. This looks like the wager this time around. And ultimately, I hope I’m wrong. You game?
So, let me ask again: should I rent Infernal Affairs before I see The Departed? It sounds like the important elements (performances, thematic development) are different enough that Scorsese’s movie won’t be hurt.
Oh, and hey Dave, if I’m really nice to you can I borrow your copy of that early cut of Gangs of New York?
I don’t think you have to see Infernal Affairs. I saw it two years ago and it’s so forgettable that I can’t recall much of it. Though this is a somewhat unique opinion. The Departed has so much more meat on it and so much more texture that the original is really inconsequential.
On first watch, Infernal Affairs is not a particularly great movie in itself because it’s not that easy to follow…but once you see the prequel, it’s a completely different experience and you understand the complexity of the relationships (something which was incorporated into the Departed). That said, the camerawork and visuals are superior to Departed and as good as DiCaprio is as an actor, he’s no Tony Leung.
I agree with Dave.. Departed will likely get noted for its screenplay (though being adapted will put it in what might be the most crowded category, as it is every year)
On the other hand, it’s statements like this…
“this is one of the very best films of the year and that after repeat viewings, it is looking like this film may come close to the very best of Scorsese all-time.”
…why I hate hyperbole. If I had read this before seeing the movie, I would have remembered what David said about Miami Vice and avoided this movie like the plague. (Heck, I would want to contract gangreen before I sit through Miami Vice again.)
I think any “writer” who uses the old “This is the best movie of the year” phrase is setting himself him up for ridicule and scorn on EFilmCritic, because there will be plenty of people who disagree with him, critics and moviegoers alike.
Now to say “this is my favorite movie of the year” or “this is my favorite Scorsese film”…that’s a different statement and one that can’t be argued with.
Warner Bros not only have the remake rights of INFERNAL AFFAIRS, but also INFERNAL AFFAIRS 2 and INFERNAL AFFAIRS 3. So Warner Bros can put the elements of all three INFERNAL AFFAIRS movies into THE DEPARTED.
I think that INFERNAL AFFAIRS 2 and INFERNAL AFFAIRS 3 are unnecessary movies…. Maybe it is just me, but I doesn’t like INFERNAL AFFAIRS 2; I think it is just [GODFATHER-wannabe] and it is nothing special (except Edison Chen’s breakout performance). INFERNAL AFFAIRS 3 is just OK. In concussion, I think that both movies didn’t need to be made.
By the way, The Weinstein Company was in advanced talks to acquire North American rights of INFERNAL AFFAIRS 2 and INFERNAL AFFAIRS 3, so these two movies should be coming soon to a cable channel and a video store near you.
http://www.variety.com/index.asp?layout=print_story&articleid=VR1117932564&categoryid=1975
mary, Scorsese didn’t take anything directiong from IA2 or 3… he just used the extra hour he had in his movie to develop the relationships, but a lot of it seems like unnecessary exposition to me, as funny as much of it is.
Oh…. I’m so sorry….
Anyway, I will see THE DEPARTED.
I’m all for The Departed
What’s the runtime on Departed? Is it GoodFellas length?
Anyone have any guesses on which will win the weekend, Departed or Texas Chainsaw Massacre: The Beginning?
2 1/2 hour running time. Tough call between the two without knowing how wide a release WB will give Departed. Scorsese hasn’t had many ultra-wide releases despite his last two movies also starring Leo… New Line has a lot invested in Texas Chainsaw, and I guess the appeal of horror to younger kids might push that slightly ahead, though I can’t imagine either making more than $25 million, let alone both.
I watched Infernal Affairs and read the Departed script. WM did a fantastic job of taking the story beats of the original and making everything… well, deeper. Awesome adaptation.
THE DEPARTED is a great B movie, and definitely Scorsese’s most entertaining work start-to-finish, but I want to see the final cut before I try to write a review. Way too many placeholder music cues, which is not a nitpick when you’re discussing Scorsese (personally, I’m all for “Gimme Shelter” being expunged entirely; this is the third time he’s used it, and it’s only distracting no matter how great the song is).
Funny how you picked up on the ‘Gimme Shelter’ use. When I first heard it in the trailer it made me cringe. It was as though Scorsese was screaming from the top of his lungs that this was the Marty of Goodfellas and Casino.
As though he was trying to take the magic he had with De Niro and force it onto his DiCaprio films without it being earned.
I will definitely see The Departed and it will most likely be my ‘birthday movie’. I just hope it is as good as the hype and doesn’t try too hard to be vulgar. The Nicholson stuff seems way over the top, as though Scorsese is trying to compete with the new boys and prove he still has it.
Agree with you that, Jeremy… though it has faded as a “oy” moment over screenings…
“The Departed has so much more meat on it and so much more texture that the original is really inconsequential”
“completely superior work in almost every way”
Way to piss off fans of the original! And I agree with EDouglas, Dicaprio is no Tony Leung.
Miami Vice… Pirates… WTC… all will be forgiven, DP if you end up being right about this one. I need you to be right about this one. My girl AT jumped on your page today (sans hyperbole, bless her heart) so that’s encouraging. But seriously, looking back on this year I’ve only agreed with you that The Da Vinci Code was very bad. (And how could United 93 NOT blow you away?)
And yes, “Gimme Shelter” has become the “Hey Ya!” of hip gansters tunes. Very played out. Just once I’d like to see a group of tough guys drown a snitch in a bucket of his own urine to the sounds of ABBA’s “Waterloo.”
Well, etslee, the thing is… it’s a Scorsese movie that cost a lot more to shoot and is loaded with small roles by name actors, and it was expanded from the original by Monahan, etc. So how was it supposed to be equal or worse unless it failed?
And as I acknowledge, I don’t have full comprehension of the love of Tony Leung or speak his native language… so I am sympathetic to that. But the way this movie works, Leo is the calm center of the storm, much more so than Damon, who fidgits here (though he’s excellent in the role). It clearly has been tailored for him and what he does as an actor. Put Brad Pitt in the role and you could be sure he would be a physical maniac and more scary. Other stars would also bring their own schtick to it.
For me, a defining moment in Leo’s performance is when his voice cracks after being pressured in a scene where he has stayed silent for a while. So is that virtuoso acting or a stunt? Your call. But it speaks to the kind of actor DiCap is. And for me, he delivers big in this film.
Dp,
Can you give us an example of Scorsese not cross cutting between tow different strands of action? Is there an example from Gangs that you can point to?
I’ve always thought The Departed could significantly improve on Infernal Affairs, but that doesn’t mean that I thought IA was bad. In the context of the filmmaking tradition it comes from and in a historical context, IA is a very significant movie.
I would just hope that if Scorsese starts remaking classic John Woo movies that we don’t start discounting those as well.
CrowT: Have you seen LAYER CAKE? I love how Vaughn scores the diner beatdown to Duran Duran’s gooey “Ordinary World”.
DP: the worst is when Scorsese replays the beginning of “Gimme Shelter” in the same scene, which is either daring or lazy. I’m hoping that’s temp.
As for Tony Leung… I think he’s one of the best actors working today, and will cite IN THE MOOD FOR LOVE, FLOWERS OF SHANGHAI and BULLET IN THE HEAD to back that up.
The entire Tammany Hall sequence was intact, lingering and allowing the significance of Tweed to built in a natural way. It is not all one long steadycam shot, but the different bits are parts of one long conversation.
As it was released, it is intercut with Leo in the tunnels.
And the Tammany Hall sequence leads into the fire brigade sequence – no voice over – which again, is Tweed on the march and is topped in the end with Bill’s crew coming to his side, which is split off and a bit lost thematically in the release version.
I was considering digitizing and posting, but really, I am not sure what the ethical position on doing that would be, even years after release. It is work product, by my standard, and I think that GONY is the exception that defines the rule. But I have mixed feelings.
“Tendency not to cross cut between action involving two different strands of the story” is still confusing to me.
It’s like saying that Scorsese has a tendency not to make movies in black and white, or not about Howard Hughes.
No one thinks there’s a hair of a chance for Peter Morgan to get the Screenplay nom double-shot with one for adapted (“Last King of Scotland”) and one for original (“The Queen”)?
There’s something going on here, it’s hard to make out.
“Watching some of the early cut of Scorsese
A friend of mine worked on the sound mix for Gangs of New York for over a year, because that’s how much things were changing between when it was supposed to come out and when it actually came out.
That’s a bitch EDouglas, anyone who goes progresses to sound without a locked picture is asking to bleed money.
Uh, THUng… you’re quoting Roger Friedman… please, take a cold compress and a bottle of Xanax and maybe you will come to back to earth…
There is only one intercut sequence. What they do make work is short scenes that jump forward and push the story along. There are also sequences that do involve both characters.
What Roger couldn’t get his brain/mouth/rim around was that things were moving forward at an unusual pace (not unlike the Day In The Life sequence in GoodFellas, but with more than one central character) and he may have felt like there was internal cuts that weren’t really there.
A year in post sound is excessive, but I believe it’s the rule and not the exception for big films to begin sound work before all of the picture editing has been completed.
Funny Jeremy, I was gonna mention the Gimme Shelter moment in Layer Cake in my above post. Didn’t really care for the movie as a whole but there’s some good use of music — esp. opening credits with the kick ass “She Sells Sanctuary” by The Cult. That song will put hair on your chest.
Jeffmcm, working on sound isn’t “turning over to sound,” the picture editor spends an enormous amount of time getting sound (and music) right before a member of the sound or music team receives a speck of anything. You can even have a mini sound/music job done for an important screening, but turning over to sound is a definitive moment in the movie’s life and it’s associated with having a locked picture. Hope that clears things up a little.
DP, notice how vague Roger’s description is, he really can’t wrap himself around what’s going on, he’s lost. Can’t wait to see for myself.
TH, I’m sorry to ruin your condescension, but I know very well what ‘turning over to sound’ is and I know that picture editing very often continues all the way up to and beyond the final sound mix. Expensive? You bet, but when you’re battling a release date you gotta do what you gotta do.
If you know what you claim to, then you need to rethink what you said, “it’s the rule and not the exception for big films to begin sound work before all of the picture editing has been completed,” because you are incorrect. The vast majority of movies are not missing their lock picture/turn over to sound date. I agree that that the date is often pushed, but you don’t miss it and turn over anyway, because that’s suicidal. You turn over late and put sound on an accelerated schedule.
Jeffmcm, if you’re counting dropping in VFX shots, as “continuing to edit picture,” don’t.
Or you lock certain reels and turn those over. Maybe that’s what you mean. That’s actually closest to the reality right now.
And you do picture change lists on reels you thought were locked and conform sound to it, but that there’s no end to it and you can go “beyond the final sound mix” because you’re battling a release date makes the whole process sound like an out of control free-for-all, when in fact it’s a very orderly, tiring, one foot in front of the next process, unless you can change the date the movie comes out and spend a whole year in sound.
P.S. So the soundtrack’s good, huh?
All I know is, I had friends who were working in the music departments on Poseidon and Mission Impossible 3 this spring and they were both complaining about the long hours of work that were resulting from constantly getting updated ‘locked’ cuts of the picture. In my experience, ‘picture lock’ is a myth.
It’s true Jeffmcm, post has become incredibly ugly. The reason? To be continued, I know everyone’s dying to hear the rest.
Dave and Kris,
Have you read Anne Thompson’s review of the Departed? She seems to think DiCaprio’s performance was out of the world. But none of you think he’ll get a nomination. What’s the reason? Is it because of the genre? Didn’t Ethan Hawke get a nom (did he win? can’t remember) for Training Day (albeit for Supporting) – and would it be the same genre?
Previous earlier reviews had mentioned problems with the ending- is it a weakness?
Any chance of Mark Walhberg getting a nod? Universally, all the reviews seem to think he is unusually good here.
pfft, Mark Wahlberg deserved a nod for I Heart Huckabees
In addressing the comments that DiCaprio is no Tony Leung, I’d have to say –“Hell, of course he isn’t”. Does that make him less of an actor….weeellllll, not really. You have to look at the way the roles are presented in each film to be honest and fair. DiCaprio is playing a much younger version of the character Leung played in IA. Whereas Leung was world-weary and losing his grip after years working undercover, all the while showing us the character’s “soulfulness” (a typical and highly effective Leung strategem by the way – no criticism intended at all), DiCaprio’s Billy is a youthful protagonist who’s been undercover for a relatively shorter length of time and is dealing with intense stress and isolation. It is a different characterization and actually a different character. So I’d say using the sort of statement that DiCaprio is no Leung is pejorative nonsense. Of course he’s “not” Leung, who has a good decade and a half on DiCaprio agewise whatever other differences there are in the two, including an eastern v. western perspective of acting.
Anne Hearts Leo.
The film is going to have an interesting road through the award season. There are two leads in this film, but Nicholson is a dominant force in a supporting role. And there are 3 or 4 truly great supporting performances besides that. Hard choices.
For me, Baldwin is better here than in The Cooler. Nicholson is trememdous. Leo is all intense emotion. Damon is really perfect in his turn. Wahlberg is really in an extension of his Huckabees work and he was great there too. Winstone kills in a smaller role. So what do you do?
If you put Nicholson in lead, like Streep in Prada, you might get a nod, but you knock out your two leads. Put him in supporting and he might get the nod, but knocks everyone else out. He’s unlikely to win in either category. They all are. But it will be a real dance of publicists and agents and the studio. And even after all that, it could all fall aside to the movie being more commerical than Oscar, in traditional Scorsese snub mode. There is no DeNiro turn here. Nicholson is the Pesci.
Is there any chance Nicholson might decline an awards push in favor of Winstone/Wahlberg/Baldwin/Sheen? I seem to recall he hardly campaigned for About Schmidt.
A good point. He already has three Oscars and 12 nominations; what’s left to prove?
Here’s a question for you all: does anyone think Scorsese’s chances for an Oscar could be improved by the fact that this is “just” an entertainment, and thus it might be considered a better job of directing because he’s back on “home turf” and isn’t trying so conspicuously hard to win one?
^^^Or at least that’s the strategy WB has adopted. Sounds similar to a more lowkey Warners campaign for Million Dollar Baby that outstripped Scorsese’s Aviator.