It shows how out of it I was in trying to be in it, acknowledging that I was out of it to myself, and then thinking, “Okay, how do I stop being out of it? Well, I get some legitimate illogical narrative ideas” — some novel, you know?
So I decided on three writers that I might be able to option their material and get some producer, or myself as producer, and then get some writer to do a screenplay on it, and maybe make a movie.
And so the three projects were “Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep,” “Naked Lunch” and a collection of Bukowski. Which, in 1975, forget it — I mean, that was nuts. Hollywood would not touch any of that, but I was looking for something commercial, and I thought that all of these things were coming.
There would be no Blade Runner if there was no Ray Bradbury. I couldn’t find Philip K. Dick. His agent didn’t even know where he was. And so I gave up.
I was walking down the street and I ran into Bradbury — he directed a play that I was going to do as an actor, so we know each other, but he yelled “hi” — and I’d forgot who he was.
So at my girlfriend Barbara Hershey’s urging — I was with her at that moment — she said, “Talk to him! That guy really wants to talk to you,” and I said “No, fuck him,” and keep walking.
But then I did, and then I realized who it was, and I thought, “Wait, he’s in that realm, maybe he knows Philip K. Dick.” I said, “You know a guy named—” “Yeah, sure — you want his phone number?”
My friend paid my rent for a year while I wrote, because it turned out we couldn’t get a writer. My friends kept on me about, well, if you can’t get a writer, then you write.”
~ Hampton Fancher
“That was the most disappointing thing to me in how this thing was played. Is that I’m on the phone with you now, after all that’s been said, and the fundamental distinction between what James is dealing with in these other cases is not actually brought to the fore. The fundamental difference is that James Franco didn’t seek to use his position to have sex with anyone. There’s not a case of that. He wasn’t using his position or status to try to solicit a sexual favor from anyone. If he had — if that were what the accusation involved — the show would not have gone on. We would have folded up shop and we would have not completed the show. Because then it would have been the same as Harvey Weinstein, or Les Moonves, or any of these cases that are fundamental to this new paradigm. Did you not notice that? Why did you not notice that? Is that not something notable to say, journalistically? Because nobody could find the voice to say it. I’m not just being rhetorical. Why is it that you and the other critics, none of you could find the voice to say, “You know, it’s not this, it’s that”? Because — let me go on and speak further to this. If you go back to the L.A. Times piece, that’s what it lacked. That’s what they were not able to deliver. The one example in the five that involved an issue of a sexual act was between James and a woman he was dating, who he was not working with. There was no professional dynamic in any capacity.
~ David Simon
I have never tried to pirate a film, but I tried to get Sicko off the torrent sites and it was very easy. Took a little more time to burn to DVD, but I’m still a little surprised how simple the whole operation is. Spooky.
I frequently download cds when they leak, then buy the hard copy when they hit the shelves (if I like the the artist or album or just end up playing it more than a few times). I don’t feel that bad about it because I buy so many cds. Whether it makes me a hypocrite or not, I think that piracy with movies is are a completely different animal. Most movies, you only see once, and when you have an experience like FF 2, it would be difficult to expect most people to pony up after the fact.
As a member of one of the guilds who was dreading a strike, I am now completely for it. It will be a battle to make any revenue off DVD/PPV in the future. .3 percent of barely anything is death. The only hope for theaters and movies seems to be 3-D. Unfortunately, most of the movies I want to see wouldn’t benefit from having that added aspect. In five years, they’re either going to cost 5 million or 500 million, with not much in between.
Does the fact that the filmmaker supposedly encourages this come into play for you at all?
As I mentioned in my Eli Roth thing that I linked to yesterday, he was claiming that piracy will ruin the film industry much like illegal downloading ruined the music industry. But what he probably didn’t research about was the upstick that the industry is having due to things like iTunes.
You’re right, most people WOULD rather pay the things they are consuming, but what the music industry didn’t anticipate was that people would get sick of paying $30 for a 10-track CD. Now that music is available more easily and for much cheaper, a lot make the right decision to buy their music legally.
Until the film undustry can come up with a working system for this then it’s an issue they’re just gonna have to deal with.
I doubt illegal copies resulted in Hostel 2 losing something like 70% of the originals business. But it’s obvious that there are some out there who will view it. I can’t imagine Sicko being the type of movie that causes a rush on illegal viewing. Or, at least not enough to result in a substantial loss of revenue.
…but I guess I could be wrong about that.
Can you offer more info on that, Kris?
From a piracy perspective, an alarming situation no doubt but let’s look at the potential demographic of SICKO: I assume they will be over 30 crowd and not the young-kids-downloading-torrents demographic, so SICKO could be released domestically and not be too affected by the piracy. The fact that the stream hasn’t been removed is bizarre.
I recall a few years ago there was a leaked copy of Ang Lee’s THE HULK available for torrent and kids were downloading it like crazy and going off in forums etc saying ‘he looks fake, like Shrek,’ or ‘the film is too boring, there isnt much action’ – did that hurt HULK’S b.o. prospects? Maybe, but this is a documentary on the US Health system so maybe what Kris Tapley was implying was that Moore didn’t give a rat’s arse about b.o. and just wanted people to watch this in any form and basically get a dialogue going and awareness.
Crikey, sorry ’bout the repost.
I think Kris is talking about the time that Michael Moore allegedly supported piracy of Fahrenheit 9/11 in The Sunday Herald: “I don’t agree with the copyright laws and I don’t have a problem with people downloading the movie and sharing it with people as long as they’re not trying to make a profit off my labour. I would oppose that.”
“I do well enough already and I made this film because I want the world, to change. The more people who see it the better, so I’m happy this is happening.”
Also, Eli Roth has noted on his blog (last chance to see one of my films) that part of Hostel 2‘s weak business was caused by piracy. Does this affect how we see audiences as having reacted to the film? Will a dent in Sicko‘s audiences upon release be seen as caused by piracy or audience disinterest?
Perhaps the fact that it’s still up as of Monday morning means that Moore isn’t going to make a big deal about the piracy of the film? I wouldn’t be surprised if the reason Google Video – no strangers to being left leaning themselves – were given “permission” by the Weinstein Company and Moore to stream the film/make it available for download from their site. I could see Moore holding back on pulling it to make the film available for viewing by people in poor communities where (a) healthcare is a real issue and (b) their cinemas won’t be showing this.
It will be interesting to see how this whole thing plays out over the next two weeks and how badly it will affect box office.
At the risk of being shouted down as a paranoid: Doesn’t it seem just a tiny bit strange that pirated copies of this particular movie — a documentary, for cryin’ out loud — have been so widely disseminated? Like, you know, maybe someone or some entity with reason to undermine the movie and/or its creator has launched a relatively sophisticated campaign to, at the very least, possibly undercut its b.o. performance?
Interesting theory Joe Leydon, but presumably the entity wanting to undercut Moore would want less people to see it, not more. I don’t think the piracy threat will make a dent in Moore’s career.
P.S. Dave, I didn’t mean to put the direct name of the hosting site in my earlier post – I was writing on autopilot. I know you don’t want to have direct links to pirated material so feel free to edit/destroy my post. Sorry about that.
Montreal: Yes, but… If “Sicko” is seen as “under-performing” at the b.o., you can bet the ranch that sites like Drudge will be trumpeting the info with ill-disguised glee. There is more than one way to undercut an opponent’s message. Why do you think Nixon’s flunkies broke into the office of Daniel Ellsberg’s psychiatrist?
Hey Joe, Interesting theory but I’m not sure I agree. I still think it’s more likely that Moore’s camp is quietly letting this continue. While he would never actively advocate pirated his film (firstly to not piss off the Weinsteins and secondly to avoid being branded as a sympathizer with pirates etc etc), I honestly believe he wants as many people in America to see this film especially with the election coming up.
Watch how fast candidates on both sides are going to start debating health care much more seriously in the coming weeks.
Well, I hope you’re right. It just strikes me as so freakin’ weird that a documentary, and not some summer tentpole movie, is being pirated this widely.
Not to jump on the conspiracy bandwagon, but if Moore was disseminating it so widely himself, it would give him a built in reason to claim that its B.O. didn’t do as well as F9/11 (something Roth is trying now).
Yes, definitely strange. But I think most people justify spending money movies like POTC or Spiderman because they are big special effects films. A lot of people I know find it hard to justify spending $13 on a documentary, hence perhaps, the higher rate of piracy. But I think much is being made of the basic quality of the Sicko film out there. This isn’t a camcorder or workprint version, but basically a DVD rip that is out there.
I don’t think Moore would want his film pirated as much as he says he would. You can’t realistically track those numbers, and b.o. reports are about the only ay to tell who’s getting the message. Sure, maybe after the film has opened for a week or two, but not right now.
Besides, the right doesn’t have the time for this when they’re spending so much of it picking on fourth graders for suggesting ways to fight global warming ( http://pressherald.mainetoday.com/story.php?id=113600 )?
The fishiness of this situation is not that someone is trying to undercut Moore…but that this leak is somehow part of the release strategy.
Kind of like how Trent Reznor did the bizarre (but brilliant) marketing for the new NIN album.
Remember, Michael Moore is the PT Barnum of the modern film industry.
I mean if he really believes that Bush & Co. are out to confiscate his master copy of Sicko, shouldn’t this be happy news for him? He can then claim, he was so threatened that he had to put it on the net…then tell people to come see what the contoversy is about.
…or he’ll claim some Repub Black Ops unit stole his master and put it on the net to make sure the film would flop.
As for the whole putting it on the net for poor people to see… Doesn’t really fly because if a poor person couldn’t afford the 10 dollars to see Sicko in the theatres, how the hell could they afford the thousands of dollars needed to have the type of computers that could download and play a movie properly.
I have lived a great deal of my life in poverty and I can tell you, the poor don’t have much time to spend waiting to download movies on the net. You tend to spend your money on other things like food and heat.
I am Christian but when I see most televangelists weep with their brethren I know they are full of shit.
Similarly, as someone from a blue collar working class background who is for socialized medicine, when I see Moore with working class people I feel the same. He has not a sincere bone in his body.
I mean he went to Cuba so that he – would – be investigated. Now he exploits it by saying Bush and Co. are out to investigate him; which -ANY- admistration would be obligated to do, due to the embargo that goes back to JFK in ’62.
I am not saying this leak is intentional, but with a true cynic and showman like PT Moore, anything is possible.
All I know is that when he and Weinstein come out and acknowledge the leak, it will be spun so that Moore is the hapless victim and Bush & Co were the bad guys.
And it will, most likely, be a big steaming pile of manipulated shit.
There’s a part of me which has suspected Moore was behind the link from the moment I first heard about it and I think it’s a lot more likely than a far-reaching HMO-lead conspiracy to undercut the film’s box office grosses. I think at some point a clear-eyed assessment of the film’s box office prospects was made and this is what they came back with: there isn’t the salacious angle to the film found in Bowling for Columbine nor is their the great big lightning rod atop of Fahrenheit for people to gather and rally against. This isn’t an Inconvenient Truth where the film is trying to scare you into action 10 seconds after you leave the theater.
No matter how important the issue may be, or how Moore may try to jazz it up (cue: Star Wars epilogue crawl) the fact of the matter is there’s nothing at all “sexy” about the film. The very same people who it’s perceived have historically downloaded films off the net (young men) are the same audience who’d probably be least likely to rush off to find out exactly why France’s health care is *so* much better than the US’s. So they leak the film and turn it into a hot property in net pirate circles (plus the bonus of every journalist on the net doing stories bringing the situation to the attention of every downloader who’s maybe on the fence). Moore gets thousands of extra eye-balls watching/hearing his message that might never have bothered with the film and meanwhile these people can now turn around and tell their middle-age parents about the film. It’s no different than hosting a bunch of free advance screenings to raise WoM, only here the brilliant move (as far as I’m concerned) is they’re getting to people who are likely outside their target demos. This isn’t a Hostel-like situation where the paying audience is cannibalizing itself. My $.02 anyway
Even if Moore is a shameless huckster and even if he is completely insincere, is it at all possible that Sicko makes accurate and relevant points about our health care system? Or since Moore made it is everything in the movie automatically BS? Just curious. Personally, I’m not much of a Moore fan.
ASD,
I agree whole-heartedly with your analysis.
And if Moore is innocent, then this is akin to the story of the little boy who cried wolf one too many times.
“Even if Moore is a shameless huckster and even if he is completely insincere, is it at all possible that Sicko makes accurate and relevant points about our health care system?”
It’s certainly possible, nay probable. The U.S. health care system has flaws. What’s also probable (in my mind) is that these flaws will be amplified, while the problems with socialized medicine (which are significant) will be minimized. And the entire presentation will be almost completely one-sided. I’m less skeptical of his individual bullet points, and more skeptical of the perception he tries to create with them.
I can agree with that assessment mysteryperfecta. I think that’s accurate.
Do we want to talk about what kind of numbers are likely box-office-wise for this movie? It strikes me that it’ll be a lot closer to Bowling for Columbine figures than F911 figures.
Man Push Cart.
Great Happiness Space.
The War Tapes.
All recent small films that at best will sell a few thousands of units in stores – but have already been downloaded thousands of times from just one torrent site. These were the first 3 small films I came across but there are many many many more. When a film will open on 2000+ screens across the country piracy is not as much an issue, but for small indie films it is a truly scary threat.
I agree with that jeff. How wide is its release going to be?
I thought that was a haiku at first from A1Amoeba. One with an unexpected twist in the third act.
Mysteryperfecta,
Yes, great answer. It’s the larger lopsided thesis that Moore tries to convince you of that is the problem. He gets you to lie to yourself and not see things clearly.
I have not seen the film but at Cannes one of the critics to actually question it was Peter Howell (I believe)of the Toronto Star, which is a very left leaning newspaper.
In Sicko, Moore apparently makes the Canadian system out to be flawless. Howell correctly pointed out to him that actually the system is extremely flawed and wait times are very bad under the Canadian system.
Many people who can afford to, go to America. They also use grey market Canadian private clinics which everyone knows exist but you’re not supposed to acknowledge.
Even liberals in Canada acknowledge their system is flawed. The Barbarian Invasions is a scathing indictment of it.
Apparently Moore got huffy at Howell and asked why Canadians all of a sudden got so ‘dark’.
Again, I agree with socialized medicine but there has to be a middle ground. And Moore’s pure ignornace of communist Cuba really outs him as an ignoramus this time.
I mean he actually contradicted Amnesty International (no friend of the right) and said there was no persecution of artists, jounos or religions in Cuba.
Then at the recent Toronto International Film festival he claimed to not even know what Marxism was!
What I like about Sicko this time out is that many people seem to have finally got that Michael Moore is just Jim and Tammy Faye Baker in demins and a ball cap.
You don’t have to be a conservative anymore to feel comfortable saying PT Moore is a washing machine always on the spin cycle.
I’ve been hearing numbers between Columbine and Fahrenheit, but I’m not sold that the awareness is out there yet to reach those numbers.
Moore flicks are best with crowds and friends. Watching it with a wave of gasps and laughs is not doing the material justice.
Which is too bad, because it would be great to see a fair & balanced movie about our health care system.
Howell said he wouldn’t trade his health card for Moore’s. This is something that Moore has been mentioning time and time again, is that whenever he asks anyone from the Canadian, British, or what have you system if they could trade… Well, there don’t seem to be any takers yet.
Long lines and scenes from the Barbarian Invasion can be found at dump hospitals in any country. What I’m interested in are the folks with the cash on hand to move themselves ahead in the wait lists… Which was actually illustrated in the Barbarian Invasion.
“Long lines and scenes from the Barbarian Invasion can be found at dump hospitals in any country.”
But they aren’t happening in the dump hospitals in Canada; they happen at the best and most efficient ones.
Indeed, under the Canadian system, dump hospitals are not supposed to exist. There is supposed to be a guarantee of equality of service and quality. That is not the case.
Again, I do not disagree that the American system is flawed…but Moore apparently takes it to the extreme in the other direction.
That’s all I am saying. Both systems are flawed. Moore doing the whole ‘trade your card for mine thing’ is just a gimmick, a schtick to make the issue seem very black and white and get people to not think clearly.
Moore is not a real thinker. He is every bit the ideologue that he claims his detractors are. That’s why in the end, he hurts his causes more than helps, especially for those of us who agree with socialized medicine.
When he sees no flaws in the Canadian system when there are many and sings the praises of Communist Cuba, he gives more ammunition to any HMO than any conservative or libertarian ever could.
Look, a couple 1000 people watching a pirated advanced copy will do nothing to this films BO numbers. I’m sure studios let more people than that see the movies for free at “preview” screenings to help get WOM going.
From Howell’s article:
“It’s not hard to do better than the U.S.,” Moore cautioned. “The Canadian system, if you look on that list of the World Health Organization, is not that far above us. It’s not like the French system. The French system is the best in the world.”
If you thought his treatment of the Canadian and Cuban systems were in a positive light, wait until the British & French system comes into play.
Which article is that Tofu?
My impression is this, and again, I have not seen the film:
Moore says the Canadian sytem is 100% tops and perfect in the film of Sicko. He got called on the mat for it, and now in more current interviews he is saying he likes the French system. But the film emphasizes Canada and is factually incorrect.
Again, I could be wrong…just wondering.
“…one of the critics to actually question it was Peter Howell (I believe)of the Toronto Star…”
That article.
Selling Sicko is a problem for the same reason that getting Americans to focus on healthcare during election periods is a problem. It’s just not that sexy. And in terms of business, it is very unlikely that this film will get 20% of the business that F9/11 got overseas. Who cares about American healthcare in Germany?
I expect this film to do about as well as An Inconvenient Truth domestically, though it will be, no doubt, an infintely superior film.
The only strategic value in Moore releasing his film into the world is to be able to say that someone else did it, trying to build a conspiracy.
It is a perfect digital burn with no apparent markings, which makes it all a little creepier. Why did it even exist to be ripped off? They wouldn’t have sent it to Cannes for review, for instance, without markings on it.
Intersting.
But it could be the best film of the year and still not do a huge amount of money at the box office. American Health Care is Moore’s least spicy/controversial – and perhaps most important – subject so far.
AMC and Regal were the first thater chains to publicly support “Fahrenheit 9/11”. Wonder if they’ll play “Sicko” now that it has been pirated (and taken down).
hell, i wouldn’t trade health care cards with him either. can you imagine all those pre-existing conditions?!?