McLovin It!
Here’s a place to discuss the last discussable movie of the summer (except maybe Halloween), Superbad.
Is it super, bad, or somewhere in between?
May 18, 2024
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It shows how out of it I was in trying to be in it, acknowledging that I was out of it to myself, and then thinking, “Okay, how do I stop being out of it? Well, I get some legitimate illogical narrative ideas” — some novel, you know?
So I decided on three writers that I might be able to option their material and get some producer, or myself as producer, and then get some writer to do a screenplay on it, and maybe make a movie.
And so the three projects were “Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep,” “Naked Lunch” and a collection of Bukowski. Which, in 1975, forget it — I mean, that was nuts. Hollywood would not touch any of that, but I was looking for something commercial, and I thought that all of these things were coming.
There would be no Blade Runner if there was no Ray Bradbury. I couldn’t find Philip K. Dick. His agent didn’t even know where he was. And so I gave up.
I was walking down the street and I ran into Bradbury — he directed a play that I was going to do as an actor, so we know each other, but he yelled “hi” — and I’d forgot who he was.
So at my girlfriend Barbara Hershey’s urging — I was with her at that moment — she said, “Talk to him! That guy really wants to talk to you,” and I said “No, fuck him,” and keep walking.
But then I did, and then I realized who it was, and I thought, “Wait, he’s in that realm, maybe he knows Philip K. Dick.” I said, “You know a guy named—” “Yeah, sure — you want his phone number?”
My friend paid my rent for a year while I wrote, because it turned out we couldn’t get a writer. My friends kept on me about, well, if you can’t get a writer, then you write.”
~ Hampton Fancher
“That was the most disappointing thing to me in how this thing was played. Is that I’m on the phone with you now, after all that’s been said, and the fundamental distinction between what James is dealing with in these other cases is not actually brought to the fore. The fundamental difference is that James Franco didn’t seek to use his position to have sex with anyone. There’s not a case of that. He wasn’t using his position or status to try to solicit a sexual favor from anyone. If he had — if that were what the accusation involved — the show would not have gone on. We would have folded up shop and we would have not completed the show. Because then it would have been the same as Harvey Weinstein, or Les Moonves, or any of these cases that are fundamental to this new paradigm. Did you not notice that? Why did you not notice that? Is that not something notable to say, journalistically? Because nobody could find the voice to say it. I’m not just being rhetorical. Why is it that you and the other critics, none of you could find the voice to say, “You know, it’s not this, it’s that”? Because — let me go on and speak further to this. If you go back to the L.A. Times piece, that’s what it lacked. That’s what they were not able to deliver. The one example in the five that involved an issue of a sexual act was between James and a woman he was dating, who he was not working with. There was no professional dynamic in any capacity.
~ David Simon
Last dicussable movie? Hey, what about War? Resurrecting the Champ? Death Sentence? Mr. Bean’s Holiday? Christ, Poland, you are so… judgmental.
The movie didn’t work that much for me. The Appatow Factory movies are starting to lose a bit of their freshness and novelty. The movie only has its crude jokes working for it. I didn’t feel any heart in the movie. Seth Rogen is a bit of a tiring one-note schtick and Bill Hader was funnier in Hot Rod. And as stated in multiple places, the cops don’t really fit in the movie tonally. As much as I love Arrested Development, Micheal Cera’s thing is already getting old. So the only “fresh” element in this movie is McLovin. Not enough to justify the endless hype for me. It’s funny that at least two trailers I’ve seen in tha last week proudly proclaim “From the makers of Superbad”, even before Superbad’s public release, as if the public acclaim of this movie was already a done deal. Maybe I’m getting old, but Superbad is nothing special.
Joe; he would not be MIAMI HEAT without the JUDGEMENTAL PART of his character. The brother apparently has no love for Statham awesomeness. It happens. Nevertheless; The Misspelled Awesome one may be tapping into something… the shine may be off Team Apatow. It happens. You cannot keep it up forever unless you are the 1972 Miami Dolphins, then you can keep it up forever. Whateverthecase, Walk Hard looks freakin hilarious no matter the producing credits attached to it. So they will bounce back. If they indeed need to bounce back.
Loooooooved it! It was a really sweet movie. The “crude jokes” work–they are either layered into the characters in realistic fashion (which IS like real high school guy talk) or done in a surreal manner (to approximate the lack of knowledge or experience of the characters).
What I most appreciated by the overall shape and tone of the movie, as with many Apatow productions, is that it’s droll tone creates its own universe within the story. Whether it’s realistic or not is beside the point–it is what it is, and while watching the movie you’re a part of that universe if you so jump on board. I think that’s why those movies are so watchable and keep funny after multiple showings, and sometimes are even funnier than the first time. The first time is to observe the groove these characters are in, the rhythms of their life, etc. Once you know your way around the movie after the first time the viewings afterward are even more rewarding. The first time you’re only tagging along. The times after that you’re “in.”
I thought the blending of the 70’s style with the contemporary was done very effectively. These boys are in their own little world, and the style is fitting to them (while at the same time contrasting to the world everyone else is a part of).
Speaking of the Apatow Universe I loved the his usual Cameo Company. The biggest kick of them all to me was Clement Blake, essentially playing the same character as he did in “Freaks and Geeks,” exhibiting the same pattern of behavior, right down to the headbutting.
A great time at the movies. With this and “Knocked Up” in only a matter of a couple months it’s hard to recall a better gut-busting double bill in that time frame (from the same filmmakers, no less).
Enjoyed it very much. As far as I’m concerned, it’s as good as Knocked Up if not better.
I don’t quite get the knocks against the Hader/Rogen subplot, specifically the ones along the lines of “seems to belong to a different movie.” There’s certainly a more manic energy to their scenes but they retain the same spirit as the “A-storyline.” Whether you’re an 18 year-old trying to impress the girl you like by buying her booze for her party or trying to convince an 18 year-old kid that you can still party like you did 10 years ago, the entire film is about trying to appear cooler than you are and coming to the time-tested realization that trying to impress someone by being disingenuous rarely works out like you hope.
To me Hader/Rogen felt like a parallel universe version of Cera/Hill 10+ years down the road had they not headed off to college. I also think the film does a decent job of retroactively justifying a lot of (although admittedly, not all) their seeming stupidity with some of the later scenes w/ McLovin.
Joke for joke, funnier than Knocked Up (IMHO anyway) but more importantly the film felt a lot more honest in its observations of male friendships (that last, unreturned glance by Hill at Cera as he rides the escalator said more than a dozen lines of dialogue possibly could) and more surprisingly, presents a less idealized and timid look at the opposite sex.
My favorite film of the summer.
I’m curious to hear the reaction on Halloween. I saw it at a test screening a month ago. Aside from its severe story flaws, I actually found it far more offensive that Hostel 2, for reasons I’ll go into after more people have seen it (let’s just say it’s a mean, cruel movie that doesn’t even try to be ‘fun’ or to have a point).
Scott Mendelson
12.21 million for Friday.
nice.
Baby sitter on Monday, ’til then I will have to stay away from heavy spoiler threads.
Scott: Not asking you to give away specifics about the remake, but I’m curious – Are you an admirer of the original John Carpenter version? And did you see some of the really nastier sequels? Here’s my take on the series:
http://movingpictureblog.blogspot.com/2006/10/you-cant-kill-bogeyman
Michael Cera is seriously cute. I love me some awkward geekiness. Oh yeah, the movie is good too.
I also loved it and preferred it to Knocked Up (which was also one of my favorite movies of the summer) or 40yo Virgin (which I have on DVD). So high praise from me, an Apatow geek. One thing I liked about it — maybe because it was about younger characters — was the way it tapped into some of that Freaks & Geeks/Undeclared magic. Virgin and KU did, too, but the little world of Superbad just felt so right. And though it’s outwardly more raunchy than the other two movies (at least in terms of the dialogue), it felt, strangely, less like it was leaning on the raunchiness than Virgin and Knocked Up occasionally did.
I also agree that the cop subplot was way less ill-fitting than almost anyone had indicated. It fit in perfectly. And was hilarious. Hader and Rogen were great. Really, the whole cast was terrific; I’m a little surprised that “McLovin” has been tagged a scene-stealer because all five of the male leads just killed for me.
All in all, one of my favorite movies of the year and I can’t wait to see it again.
Yep to all (possible spoilers by implication, so proceed with caution).
I have enjoyed the series, even the later sequels. Yes parts 4 and 5 and 6 are silly and violent, but they have Donald Pleasance who, even at his part 5 batty-ness, brings an undertone of despair and tragedy. Call it a Moby Dick analogy or not, but even part 6 is made watchable and surprisingly moving by Pleasance’s performance as a man who has given up the ghosts only to find he has nothing left. Yes, the fact that he was dead when the film came out ‘improves’ the film, but there is an undercurrent of sorrow that I found surprisingly potent. Maybe it wasn’t intentional, but it’s there. Loomis had wasted his life hunting Meyers, ruining his reputation and his personal life in the process (a metaphor for the path of this respected actor?). This seems to have finally hit home for him in part 6, and his underplaying and melancoly make part 6 far better than it has any right to be.
As for the new one, Loomis isn’t really a fleshed out character, despite having a little more screen time in the opening act. He’s basically there to serve a function (one that I won’t reveal yet), and McDowell doesn’t come close to the pathos that Pleasance brought in even the worst sequels.
Aside from that, the new film suffers from the absolute lack of any connecting tissue or context to the brutal and savage violence. During the second act (which is basically 80% of the original Halloween stuffed into 30 minutes), there are no stalking scenes, there are no moments of suspense, it’s just a series of 30 second set-ups followed by death.
And there is a nasty streak of nice, upstanding people who seem to get killed as a punishment for their decency. It’s one thing not to pick favorites, but the movie goes out of its way to punish the sympathetic characters while letting off its neutral characters with a quick, bloody demise.
Scott Mendelson
Loved the film, but it isn’t in the class of 40 Year Old Virgin, and not as smart as Knocked Up. But the theatre was so freaking packed last night, I wonder if it might end up making more money than either of those films…because high school kids will like it more, and will find a way to get past the R rating.
But I think what separates the three films is that despite what is likely a huge amount of improvisation in each film, 40 Yr Old Virgina and Knocked Up have some tremendous writing in them, where in Superbad you feel like a wonderful likeable young cast is carrying a pretty mediocre script. This became more evident as the movie struggled towards it’s end, particularly in the later arguments between Sera and Hill, where Hill just keeps repeating the same monologue.
And I don’t see how anyone can disagree that the cops are tonally way different than the rest of the film. You have what is essentially a realistic teen comedy, even pitched by the filmmakers as the realistic side of the American Pie cartoon style comedies. Yet the cops are just not realistic. But my friends thought they were more tedious than I did. In fact, because McLovin did steel the movie, and he was in like every scene with the cops, their scenes were some of the funniest.
By the way, isn’t this film practically a remake of HOUSE PARTY, the classic Kid N Play comedy?
And when compared to that film, it actually makes SUPERBAD look like just a little fun film, because it’s not really in the class of HOUSE PARTY, certainly not from a writing point of view…
OK, criticisms aside, I thought it was superfun! Definitely one of the best films of the summer.
You may be on to something with the House Party comparison. Seriously. There’s even the plot twist of a character deciding not to have sex withy a “nice” girl when he gets a chance. At least, I think that’s what happened in House Party — it’s been a while since I’ve seen it. On the other hand, I do have a DVD of the film (along with DVDs for House Party 2 and 3), so maybe I should do some research?
Actually, in House Party if I recall correctly Kid (or Play, I can’t remember which is which) tries to have sex with the hot girl but when he pulls out the condom it totally disintegrates b/c he had it for so long….and he ends up having to escape her parents by jumping naked out the window.
But it has numerous similar scenes, particularly the cop interludes.
Then again, this has become standard in what I would call thin comedies like Barbershop, where they need to cut away to 2 dumb asses doing whatever to help get the movie to a bookable 90 minutes. At times, Superbad felt this way, like they just didn’t have enough story to carry the film. Which I guess they didn’t.
Creeped me the hell out. It was like watching my biography on the big screen, complete with a sold out audience laughing at it.
Not fun.
Scott: I heard after your group of screenings that the producers went to re-edit HALLOWEEN, in addition to punching up the ending with more kills and cinematic mayhem.
If I do see the film, it will only be based on my curiosity of Malcolm McDowell’s take on Dr. Loomis, although I find the late August date for the release perplexing.
I realize SAW IV is opening a week before but why not release this film in Halloween?
If I’m not mistaken, there is only one film slated for Oct. 27 something called THE BRIDGE and Oct. 31 is empty as well, with a flick called BRYAN LOVES YOU.
Maybe Poland can enlighten us, whats the historic b.o. trajactory of movies released late August that have become hits? Movies that get released at the end of August throughout the years usually include dreck like ESCAPE FROM LA.
The screening of Halloween that I attended was AFTER the re-shoots (more kills and a bloodier ending… check and check). As far as I can tell, I saw something closely resembling the final cut.
Speaking of which, stuff like this really makes me appreciate the Saw franchise. I didn’t like the first one at all and still don’t (the script was laughably written and structured, resembling a first draft that was never re polished after being sold). I do like both of the sequels, both as a showcase to quality character actors (Tobin Bell, Donnie Walburg, Angus Macfadyen, etc) and for having a strong point of view and moral world view.
I may not agree with said world view (I think the idea that Jigsaw is ‘helping people’ and not really a murderer is pretty offensive, which is why I like the second film best for challenging this theory), but any film where a major character must choose between saving mementos of his dead son from fiery destruction or saving a judge who passed a light sentence on a hit and run killer of said son; that’s a series that is actually ABOUT something. Come what may, as long as the series continues to highlight Tobin Bell (one of my favorite character actors even before Saw), I’ll happily pay to see the next chapter.
Of course, the irony is that the first mystery of the first Saw was ruined for me because I recognized Bell as the comatose cancer patient and Michael Emerson as the creepy assistant (free tip for mysteries and procedural crime television – the respected character actor is always the killer, especially typecast character actors).
As for the release date, all of the Halloween sequels that I grew up on came out in August or September. I don’t think any of them actually came out around Halloween, oddly enough (check Box Office Mojo for sure, I guess).
Scott Mendelson
While I see that the Saw sequels aren’t _completely_ vacuous, it’s hard for me to see the ‘strong moral view’ as anything other than totally juvenile. This is a good case of a set of movies where the coupling of hardcore gore and a moral lesson is so annoying and awkwardly done that it fails for me.
Superbad is funny. With a small f. And I am a huge fan of 40 Year Old Virgin and Knocked Up.
But remember that discussion that was had a few weeks ago about why our culture doesn’t produce intellectual film-makers like Bergman or Antonioni anymore.
Read all of the hyperbolic reviews that overpraise Superbad with an 85% on RT and perhaps therein is where the answers lie.
Again, it is funny…but this is not a teen film in the league of The Breakfast Club or Risky Business. In 20 years it will take its rightful place alongside Porky’s, American Pie II and Last American Virgin and that will be that.
Nicol, you’re overlooking that the RT score doesn’t differentiate between critics who say that it’s a 4-star masterpiece and those who give it a marginal thumbs up – both count as ‘fresh’ in their system.
But it’s seriously better than American Pie 2 – or American Pie 1.
Nicol: I think you’d have to agree that Risky Business is in a class by itself. I don’t even think of it as a teen movie, much less a teen sex comedy. To me, it’s a terrific satire that reflects the zeitgeist of its time almost as well as The Graduate did in its time. As for Superbad — well, yes, I can easily see the similarities to Porky
The thing is, Superbad is really such a small film. More like Bottle Rocket was than something like Risky Business or Breakfast Club, which were all bigger films, for lack of a better word.
In scope, Superbad is like a little Sundance film. But the humor is broad, and it’s got the Apatow machine behind it. It isn’t a true underdog like Napoleon Dynamite, but they are similar in scope.
Which I think makes the numbers even more amazing, as it’s essentially introducing two new (if hyped) actors to leading movie roles.
Then again, it easily could have been made for $3 million, and probably cost five times that….
Carpetmuncher: I agree. I realize the term
And sometimes the hype is deserved. Because I do believe both Michael Sera and Jonah Hill delivered on the hype. Those guys are funny and charming and had great chemistry together.
I’m a HUGE fan of the original “Halloween”. With that…Rob Zombie can burn in hell for all I care.
Used to love him for embracing all things “classic monsters” in his music, videos, etc. He was something of a tech-metal Misfits when he went solo… (meaning, fun songs based on monster movies and such) but he’s completely lost me.
I’ve read interviews where he claims to love all the old horror films that use sound as a means of scaring instead of visuals… and, based on that, I became excited when I heard he was venturing into films. Maybe, SOMEONE would bring that back– things that go bump in the night– instead of all this gore and torture shit.
Then came “House of…” and ” The Devil’s Rejects”. And let’s not forget his amazingly bad trailer on “Grindhouse”.
This man is all ALL talk. He claims to understand the genre and he’s done everything BUT. There’s no difference between his films and shit-bag Friday the 13th’s.
You know what… I take that back… at least Friday the 13th’s are at least somewhat funny in a cheesy way.
Based on his output, this man knows NOTHING about what’s scary. He knows hillbilly’s and his wife’s ass. That’s about it.
I hope this movie TANKS so maybe the suits will see that quality does not equal updated film, special effects and a useless backstory.
Jeff,
Yes, RT does not differentiate between marginal and genius type thumbs up. But I must say the overemphasis on the overhype of Superbad hurt it for me. And it is not a bad movie by any definition. It’s funny. But I have just read so much ‘genius’ ‘it tell’s the truth’ kind of quotes that I rolled my eyes a lot.
I think Apatow is in his phase where he could fart on celluloid and a certain proportion of crix would call it genius.
Joe,
Risky Business is one of my favourite films ever and I actually think it ages much better than the Graduate although that might be because the Graduate never really spoke to me.
Again, not to go too hard on Superbad, I just think some quarters are vastly overstating how good it is. Even a pure teen film like The Breakfast Club we talk about over 20 years later where I think Superbad will be just another teen sex comedy 10 years from now. For all the dissing of American Pie now, at the time it was heralded with the same sort of praise as Superbad.
Part of it has to do with the scatological humour. It’s hard to make a film like TBC and be clever but sensitive so it sticks to the ribs longer. The sex humour in SB is funny, but it is nothing new. I have heard these jokes before and will hear them again next year. What made Knocked Up so great is that its characters had a greater arc. The film was bigger than the raunch. Superbad really is just about the raunch.
“I hope this movie TANKS so maybe the suits will see that quality does not equal updated film, special effects and a useless backstory.”
It won’t tank. It’s been established for a few years now that kids will flock to any piece of garbage that has a vaguely familiar title, yet they wouldn’t be caught dead at the classic originals. They’re old, ya know.
“I think Apatow is in his phase where he could fart on celluloid and a certain proportion of crix would call it genius.”
Agreed. To slightly paraphrase Kurosawa, the best way to improve SUPERBAD would be to cut it in half…length-wise.
I disagree that Superbad is just about the raunch. The broad humor is a huge part of the appeal. But in the end it’s about boys love affairs with other boys. Superbad clearly has no delusions about this, and plays it up time and again.
Manohla Dargis has written about this a number of times, memorably in reference to Swingers. And she’s really onto something.
Yes, the broad humor gets the big laughs. But those kind of gags might fall flat without the charm. And the charm of Michael Sera & Jonah Hill is what makes the film so appealing.
As well as I thought it would do, I’m still a little shocked at $31.4 million. That’s a ginormous hit. And it should have legs.
Haven’t seen SUPERBAD yet, but I can’t wait. And I can already say I like it better than THE BREAKFAST CLUB.
I heard Apatow speak at the Edinburgh Film Festival today and he mentioned the love affair between boys thing. He agreed to a certain extent, but said he thinks it gets a little overblown. (He mentioned that one reviewer of SB didn’t like it because the heroes didn’t have sex with each other at the end, so that may be his reasoning there.)
I’m sure Apatow and Company will flame out eventually, but I hope not soon. Right now, outside of Pixar, they’re the most reliable funny movie makers in my book.
Sorry you didn’t like it, Cad. I saw it again this weekend with a friend who wanted someone to go with and laughed at all the stuff again. It’s a fine character comedy. It is Laurel & Hardy. And the raunch is the language of the moment. But what makes it special – like There’s Something About Mary and 40 Year Old Virgin – is how sweet it is underneath. These guys actually like women. One of them talks so much shit and the other is offended by the talk. But in the end, the big talker is just another guy who wants a girl to want him.
And it’s not “bros over hos.” These two complete each other and in the end, their separation means that they will need women in their lives to fill that hole in future. Simple coming of age.
The notion that this film opened off of Knocked Up or that Apatow could open a phone book is soooo jaded and insider. Apatow is branded by studios because he has hits that can be connected to the new films. But it is the ads and trailers and clips that sell these films, just as with the ones before them. I am always amazed when people change the rules of logic when they don’t like something.
But David: If Apatow hadn’t already had Knocked Up — and, yes, 40-Year-Old Virgin — to his credit, would Superbad had gotten nearly as much pre-release publicity as it did?
…or been made at all?
Certainly Superbad would have never opened on so many screens or gotten the marketing support it did with the Apatow connection.
And personally, I might not have seen it right away if it wasn’t for how funny I thought Jonah Hill was in Knocked Up, a movie I wouldn’t have seen right away if I hadn’t discovered Seth Rogen in 40 Year Old Virgin.
And I do think a lot of kids these days are savvy enough to know that the same people that made Superbad made 40 Yr Old Virgin and Knocked Up. It says it in the ads, doesn’t it?
So while the typical teen might not know or care who Apatow is, the films speak for themselves, and for me, each was a great advertisement for the other.
Carpetmuncher: Agreed. In fact, even though I think Knocked Up is by far the best of the three films, I don’t think it wouldn’t have done quite so well without 40-Year-Old Virgin arriving before it. But I also think that it’s entirely possible Superbad could wind up making more money than either of the other two.
Sorry, Chucky: Sometimes, name-checking does work.
You are so MSM some times, Joey.
The movie didn’t track because it wasn’t a mainstream play. So the traditional pre-release publicity was not the key. The audience was self-selecting, given the opportunity by Sony’s marketers.
Did 40YOV get Apatow on track to move fast on a lot of projects? Yes. Did Apatow’s name drive business on Superbad? Maybe 20%, he guessed arbitrarily.
You play the game of saying High School Musical was more popular than Hairspray and then don’t seem to account for the cult popularity of Arrested Development – on DVD especially – that has made Michael Cera a heartthrob for teen girls.
Kids decide to go to movies based on what they see in trailers, ads, and clips. They will decide not to go to an Apatow movie soon enough… and that won’t be his name’s fault either.
The “underperformnace” of Me, Myself & Irene came at the height of popularity for The Farrelys and for Jim Carrey. The “overperformance” of American Pie happened with no name actors and no-name director/writer/prodcuers.
Look at what tools marketers use… they grab onto whatever they can. Do you think that Pete Hammond and Peter Travers drove teens to see Sueprbad? But still, they use the quotes to say, “someone things it is great!” Same with associating the film with Apatow’s previous films here. They can’t tout the actors or Mottola, so they use what they have.
But it is the movie that sold the movie.
This is the same problem that Par faced with Stardust. It is a fairly sophisitcated fantasy, but the audience for films like that are kids, who want effects and jokes. So they sold the two stars they had and never found a true voice of the film to sell with.
I gotta say… Universal had the same problem, I felt, on The Kingdom. And now, they have a trailer that is selling what they have. And then yesterday, in the theater, I saw a trailer for American Gangster that was, once again, somehow off. You can see the material there and I have some idea of what Ridley Scott does and it was not in that trailer. It was like they now think that every film needs to be Jarheaded. And I hope that American Gangster is better than that. It looks like it might be a more visual Lumet film… right up my alley. But the trailer I saw was for a movie I don’t care about seeing… sorry.
Sony’s staregy for this film was to expose it and expose it and expose it. That is what sold it. Not the Apatow name or reviews… there may have been some impact, but marginal in comparison.
I agree with a lot of what you say, DP, but I have a hard time believing that teenage girls were flocking to see Michael Cera. Arrested Development is a cult among a different (older)demographic.
Uh…. how do you know that, J-Mc?
I think young teen and tween girls prefer Zac Efron to Michael Cera. I think the college-aged girls might be fifty-fifty. But I think the late-twenties and older ladies think Cera is totally cuter. Wow, we need some ladies on this board to comment.
Because I’ve never, ever seen Michael Cera on the cover of a teen magazine during my many, many perusals while waiting in a checkout line. Efron, yes, and Corbin Bleu and Jesse McCartney, but as a big Arrested Development fan if they had ever featured Cera I would have noticed it. He’s not really a heartthrob in the same way, anyway, being gangly and cerebral.
David: To put it simply, I think you’re wrong. Well, at least, not entirely right. Yes, the movie itself was the big draw. But it needed a big push, which is what Columbia gave it. Would it have gotten that big push — indeed, would it have gotten made in the first place — without the Apatow connection? I don’t see how or why it would have. Also, Arrested Development was a critics’ darling of a sitcom that never really caught on with the general public. And unless you are privy to something I’m not, I’ve never read or heard anything that leads me to believe that teens girls would be all that interested in a show top-lining Jeffrey Tambour (with all due respect to Mr. Tambour).
Of course, the success of Superbad could very well be due to a “perfect storm” of all these elements. Take away any one factor — the Apatow connection, the alleged teen cult for Cera, the “Freaks and Geeks” fandom, an opening weekend without another film skewing toward the same demo, all of it — and you’ve got, what, Win a Date with Ted Hamilton numbers? (Actually, I just picked that title out of thin air because it was on TV last night. Feel free to substitute some other film if you like.)
I have trouble believing that the cult audience of Arrested Development, a show that didn’t have enough viewers to stay on the air, drove a film to a $30 million opening. No matter how well it did on DVD. And I certainly don’t think the teen audience is nearly as big as DP is suggesting. The show’s humore skewed much older. And Sera was not that well known among college students until the hype for this film. And Jonah Hill was unknown to most before Knocked Up.
The Suprbad trailer premiered in the theatres before….Knocked Up. Certainly the first time I saw it. Same filmmakers, same sense of humor, same audience. OK, not exactly the same audience. The theatre I saw Superbad in was filled with kids that were probably all sporting fake IDs.
I’m curious how much P&A was thrown at this versus say Distrubia, which opened to $22mil solely on the hype surrounding Shia LaBeouf.
I thought the American Gangster trailer rocked by the way. Based on the reaction in the theatre, you’d think it will do at least double the money The Kingdom (or any of the “Iraq” movies) will. Can’t wait for that one.
You really don’t get it, Joe. You’re living in 80s logic.
Certainly, Superbad may have opened to just $25m without Knocked Up earlier in the summer.
You want to put everything on some easily understood timeline, plus you still seem to have Knocked Up growing out of your ass like your favorite weed. There is no reason why this film couldn’t have stiffed and only in the media is “I want to see a Judd Apatow movie” falling off of anyone’s lips.
The movie opened because Sony sold the movie and people made a choice. It’s the same reason they didn’t bite very hard on Evan Almighty. It’s the same reason why Transformers opened. People never connected with the ark and the beard and people did connect with the cool cars turning into robots. This doesn’t mean that Get Smart won’t be a hit or that Shoot ‘Em Up will.
The same clips that some people derided in here are what sold the film. Not critics. And not Knocked Up.
Would Sony have bought Superbad and let Mottola direct a cast of relative unknowns and given it a late summer slot if it were not for his previous pictures? Of course not. But that is a dumb argument about how the movie was marketed. What movie that opened this summer would have been opened if it had no pedigree?
And have you not noticed that Sony’s consistently been opening absolute shit to $20m and more in the last couple of years? They know how to find the audience. And when they find the audience and that audience connects with the materials, you get a Taladega Nights or a Ghost Rider (biggest opening ever for a second tier character… 2nd even if he is a personal fave) or a Superbad. And when they don’t, you get a Stranger Than Fiction.
There are only three producers whose names sell significant numbers of tickets right now… Spielberg, Bruckheimer, and Pixar. I respect your enthusiasm for Knocked Up, but you are selling this movie short.
Now, if Walk Hard and Drillbit Taylor and Pineapple Express and Forgetting Sarah Marshall all open, all with the one unifying thing being Apatow’s involvement… then we really could be talking about a comedy Bruckheimer. But right now… you’re reaching.
P.S. The knock on Arrested Development tells me all I need to know about your demographic insight. Try talking to a few teenagers about the show. Take a look at its DVD sales. Have you noticed that it has been running on G4… a network for gamers?
The people I know talk about Portia DiRossi and Michael Cera and David Cross and Jason Bateman from that show… not so much Jeffrey Tambour. And they watch it over and over, like The Simpsons or High School Musical. But maybe I just know a bunch of freaks who have teenagers. Could be.
“Distrubia, which opened to $22mil solely on the hype surrounding Shia LaBeouf”
WHAT?!?!?!
Oy.
David: Once again, I think you’re wrong. Or, to be more precise, not as right as you think you are. But never mind: We’ll agree to disagree. Though I will say that, as someone who has been teaching college courses for three semesters per year since 2000, I have never, repeat never, had any student of any age ever ask me about, or casually mention, Arrested Development. And my 20-year-old son, who is a gamer, has never mentioned it, either. But, hey, different parts of the country, different tastes.
Oh, one other thing: “And have you not noticed that Sony’s consistently been opening absolute shit to $20m and more in the last couple of years? They know how to find the audience.” Er, isn’t that pretty much what I said?
I finally got to see SUPERBAD and really liked it. However I don’t think it’s on par with KNOCKED UP as a whole. SUPERBAD just looked kinda chincy to me. Whoever said it could have been made for $3 million was spot on. Of course that’s no way to judge a film, but it did feel like a small movie that isn’t, how should I say….a big wide release multiplex flick. Of course the numbers prove me wrong and I think it’s going to have some serious legs. The BOTTLEROCKET comparison was a good one as well.
I also felt like it was a little too long and it kind of slowed down in the middle. There also (for me) weren’t any really *big* laughs in the movie and what got big laughs (the police car fire for instance) weren’t that funny to me.
Overall I’m bummed it didn’t blow me away I think, however it was still really good.
The movie is just plain false. It’s built on this whole idea of filth-talkin’ teens who really have no idea what sex is until they’re physically confronted with it. But there’s no effort in the film to flesh out this thesis. You can tell that the filmmakers couldn’t give two shits about making a point. The real focus is on how many crude sex jokes they can get you to respond to. I don’t buy for a second that the shy kid gives a crap about getting laid or that the horndog kid finally understands girls at the end. Look at the Mclovin/squad car storyline: It starts with the idea of irresponsibility, goes into more irresponsibility and ends with, yes kids, irresponsibility. What is this movie trying to say? Nothing, that’s what.
It’s unfocused and amateurish.
It’s funny.
If you remove the stick from your butt, it makes it much less painful to laugh.