A Good Quote About The Traditional Vs New Media
I finally got around to watching the last 8 hours of The Wire this weekend, an excellent, if still wildly overrated drama. One of the key sytorylines of the show was The Baltimore Sun and a journalist who made things up as a way to self-aggrandize and a management that looked the other way in the lust for a Pulitzer.
Anyway, as soon as I finished it, I went to Salon to read some of the – again – excessive coverage of the show. And I read Heather Havrilesky’s interview with David Simon, Wire showrunner and former Sun reporter. There was plenty of interesting stuff and, like myself, Simon gives no pass to the majors based on what has often been a glorious past. But this is what jumped out at me to offer to you…
“The impact of the Internet is that it’s pulling the froth of commentary and debate off the top of first-generation news gathering, leaving newspapers with only a first-generation role for themselves, which is not enough for them to sustain readers, and so they’re losing young readers. By and large, excusing the fact that there are some first-generation journalists going out and acquiring new information directly for the Web, the vast majority of the Internet is reaction and debate and commentary — some of it brilliant. But I don’t run into a lot of Internet reporters at council meetings and in courthouses.”
Pretty fair analysis, no?
ADD, Sun 7:50p – I just read David Simon’s post-Wire-finale self-analysis on The Huffington Post and all I can say is, “Nice to meet you, friend.” I am thrilled to have someone with all the experience that Simon has making many of the same arguments that I have been attacked for expressing in The Hot Button and here on the blog, year after year.
Yes, my opinions are in the frivilous arena of film industry coverage. But given that this is my business, I take it seriously, just as a city beat reporter takes the local politics or drug culture.
It has always been too easy to accuse me of grandstanding or jealousy or whatever. This does not mean that I am not open to those of you who actually disagree with the details of the issues I take with some Traditional Media outlets in some thoughtful way. I honor that. In fact, I crave it, as it helps to sharpen or dull my sense of things, most often to the better.
Another pull quote from Simon…
“We will all soon enough live in cities and towns where politicians and bureaucrats gambol freely without worry, where it is never a risk to shine shit and call it gold. A good newspaper covers its city and acquires not just the quantitative account of a day’s events, but the qualitative truth and meaning behind those events. A great newspaper does this routinely on a multitude of issues, across its entire region.
Battlestar Galactica is overrated. Friday Night Lights is overrated. Arrested Development was, arguably, overrated.
The Wire is not overrated.
Great blog entry by Simon there. I miss that show so much already. I only hope his Iraq war miniseries holds up nearly as well. Looks like Ziggy from season 2 is in it!
The Wire is the most overrated underrated show in the history of TV. Do not hate on the Cylons, the Bluthes, or the Taylors. It does not suit you.
It’s not that The Wire isn’t a great, subtle, smart, top drawer show… it’s just, it seems to me, a bit beyond for some.
IOI, I agree with you. All three of those shows are/were justly praised.
So why doesn’t old media gobble up some internet froth and make it part of their brand?
Internet froth gobbled up old media and look how that turned out.
Wait, so this is the first time you acknowledge The Wire and the best you can say that it’s “a bit beyond” for some? What does that mean?
http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.wordpress.com/2008/03/09/85-the-wire/
And where are you at with BSG, Poland? Have you checked it out? Or do I need to send you my season 1 HD-DVD with the miniseries?
I’ve spotted you a couple of times at the Whole Foods by the Grove, so I know I’ll get it back š
IO and Jeff, don’t get me wrong – I like all three of those shows very much and have watched each series in its entirety. But Battlestar takes itself too seriously and is not above some seriously weak acting and writing on occasion. FNL (despite some wonderful performances) trots out teen sports and soap opera cliches left and right. I always found myself admiring AD more than I liked it despite watching it since its premiere – most have since caught up on DVD. All good shows, all overpraised to some degree. Just my opinion – we’ve all got ’em.
In general I find that any show “lives” mostly on critical acclaim tends to be overpraised – critics realize that it’s their praise that’s keeping these shows alive and consequently feel the need to overdo it. The Wire is the only show I’ve seen that transcends this – it truly is as good as the hype, though not without flaws (I’ll admit the newspaper story in Season 5 was seriously undercooked).
MarkVH said, “In general I find that any show that “lives” mostly on critical acclaim tends to be overpraised – critics realize that it’s their praise that’s keeping these shows alive and consequently feel the need to overdo it.”
I agree. But I suppose there’s two ways of over-doing it– one is to say a show is better than it really is; the other is to accurately characterize the quality of the show, but talk about it ad infinitum.
I greatly enjoyed Season 5 of The Wire, especially the stuff about the newspaper. It wasn’t as thorough as some of the other seasons, but it was still an excellent wrapping-up.
Frankly, I thought The Wire to be the best show on television for the span of however many years it was on, making shows like The Sopranos, Lost, 24, etc. just look frivolous. Season 4, about the school system, was the best fictional account of race relations in this country I’ve seen since Roots. Really, that’s the company it keeps.
I don’t think I’m overhyping it. If anything, I think I’m understating its greatness. But that’s just my opinion.
I have probably seen every episode of the first 5 seasons of Homicide no fewer than 5 times each… yet I never got into The Wire, in great part because I travel so much and it always seems like a show you need to sit down and consume in full. I bought Seasons 1 and 2 on DVD, so I will jump in more fully now.
And it’s funny, because I thought just what Me wrote this morning… that the extreme passion for The Wire is a function of it being THE SHOW for a lot of people who didn’t have one of those before. Homicide is, actually, quite different than The Wire, with the Pembleton/Bayliss storylines really being the Hero story of the series. Based on Season 5, The Wire is much more serious about being an ensemble… like one of my other great love shows of the past, St Elsewhere (first 3 seasons).
So, I guess the reason I am not quite as over the moon about The Wire is that I have had that thrill before. And except for The Sopranos, I have no problem believing that it has been the best series on TV in these years… though like The Wire, I haven’t been a viewer of 24 and other “gotta know what’s going on” shows. But Best Ever? Maybe watching 4 more seasons will change my mind. Top 10 dramas ever? Could be. My sense of overpraise is not “I love it” but more of the “Best Ever”ism.
It’s possible for an intelligent person to enjoy 24 as popular entertainment, sure. I watched the entire first season and had a blast. But to say it is anything other than disposable trash, with a straight face?
And the thing about the Wire is that it requires way too much of the viewer to ever achieve any kind of mass approval as the best ever television show. It’s the TV equivalent of a series of 1200 page novels, and often times the payoffs come in quick bursts – like seeing quick 2 second flash of a certain character unexpecetedly in a gay bar 3 seasons in, or the foreshadowing of a legend’s murder 2 seasons earlier in the form of children playing. There are hundreds of little moments like that. And so much of the coolness depends on groundwork that had been laid earlier. If you’re not an avid or even diehard viewer of the show you are guaranteed to miss out on lots of that stuff. But this makes it sound like work, and it surely ain’t.
That stuff white people like website is some of the funniest shit I’ve seen in ages. Some of the other essays in that series include: expensive sandwiches, standing still at concerts, assists, and outdoor performance clothes. This blurb from that last one cracked me up especially:
“The main reason why white people like these clothes is that it allows them to believe that at any moment they could find themselves with a Thule rack on top of their car headed to a national park. It could be 4:00 p.m. on a Saturday when they might get a call
That’s funny, I had exactly the opposite reaction with Homicide. For me, I enjoyed Homicide, but with only a few exceptions (one being when the mother of the killer and the mother of the victim end up sitting on a couch talking, not knowing who the other is) it never really became the IT show for me. I appreciated it’s greatness more than I became involved with it.
As for The Wire versus Sopranos, in the end, I think The Wire more effectively added up to a powerful whole, whereas Sopranos had an ebb and tide relationship with greatness. Some seasons were great, and others were really not. And The Wire more consistently dealt with their topics seriously, whereas Sopranos often tipped over the edge into caricture, making it hard for me to hold it up as better.
DP, you bring up an interesting point about The Wire being “THE SHOW” for people who haven’t had one of those before. But I think you’re off in making this claim, and even a bit patronizing.
I have had those thrills before. I was obsessed with The X-Files when very few were. Buffy probably generated the most passion I’ve ever felt for non-movie entertainment entity. The Sopranos was another, and Season 1 still ranks as probably the single finest season of a TV show I’ve ever seen, with only Season 4 of The Wire as a competitor.
I’ve got considerable experience with having shows that I’ve discovered and loved when nobody else did. And I know plenty of people who have too. And all of us who have seen The Wire still consider it the best show we’ve ever seen.
But the reveal that you’re basing your “overrated” tag on only having seen the final season of the show pretty much nullifies your assertion. You, who is so adamant that perspective is everything is calling something overrated when you haven’t even seen 83 percent of its run?
I can verify that watching four more seasons will absolutely change your mind. More than any other show, this one mandates that you see it from the beginning. Season 5 was very good, but seeing it in the context of the other four will both increase your appreciation of it while also magnifying its flaws. Sorry, but in this case you just need perspective.
DP is judging The Wire on season 5 along without having seen seasons 1-4? That explains everything. This is the biggest reason why people think it’s overrated, because they’re not evaluating the whole thing. The Wire is the TV equivalent of a 3,000 page novel, broken into 600 page chunks that are just pretty great on their own but when read together are simply staggering.
i was always a huge fan of the Wire, and a lot of people i work with are too. Though, trying to get people on board for the show always seemed difficult.
I always compared a season of the wire to an uncoiled rope. All the strands are there, and half the fun is watching them all tie together.
DP, I’m with MarkVH and OddDuck. Pronouncing a series “vastly overrated” when you’ve seen just 10 of the 60 episodes defines lack of credibility.
In this post, you begin talking about how you take your beat — which you defined above as film industry coverage — seriously. Sorry that seriousness doesn’t extend to television.
And as for “The Wire” being “THE SHOW” for people, well, watch the other 50 episodes and then report back. I was a huge fan of “Hill Street Blues” and never thought it could be topped. Then came “Homicide: Life on the Street,” which raised the bar for character-based drama. Then came “The Sopranos” and “The Shield,” two more terrific dramas that continued along the trail blazed by those other shows.
“Deadwood” was even better than “The Sopranos” on a consistent, week in, week out basis, until the plug was unceremoniously pulled after season three.
So, I’ve had many shows that I thought were “THE SHOW.”
“The Wire” tops them all. There has been no regularly occurring dramatic television series in the history of American TV that has achieved the level of artistry that “The Wire” accomplished so consistently.
Season five — the one you watched — is arguably the weakest of the five, by far. Season four represents the highest level of achievement in dramatic storytelling I’ve ever watched on television and rivals the best dramatic filmmaking I’ve seen.
You may not think so, ultimately, but do your readers the service of actually watching the program in question before dismissing their positions.
Two cents,
RP
My understanding is that The Wire is such a layered and complex narrative that if you don’t start from the beginning, you’re screwed.
That’s how I’m going to do it.
It’s a very poor analogy and doesn’t really correlate, but it reminds me when Wells gave a review of 8 Legged Freaks after admitted to walking out only 8 minutes into it.
(Ducks to avoid D-Po’s smack.)
I like BSG for the interesting angles it takes on religion and spirituality. I’ll just leave it at that so as not to spoil it.
Those that watch, know what I mean.
SHANE VENDRELL OWNS YOUR ASS.
I started watching The Wire this fall and my love for the show grew with each season. I can’t think of anything I’ve ever seen on TV that compares with the fourth season. Every season is fantastic in its own way, but the fourth is a major achievement. I’m still amazed how the show juggled nearly a 100 characters in around 50 episodes. I thought Sopranos couldn’t be topped. I was wrong.
If you can deal with the mediocre middle section of every BSG season so far, it’s a pretty amazing show. That’s how you tackle politics, religion, the war in Iraq, and abortion. Sneak it into your serial sci-fi in the most subversive way possible.
Why can’t newspapers sell their links to the highest website bidder to help pay for first-generation news gathering?
Isn’t there some way to make pages viewable at the newspaper’s website, but block directed traffic, unless the website pointing to it pays a fee?
I will take those of you making the point on your word and find out.
I don’t think there was anything remotely patronizing about bringing up the idea of how people fall in love with shows and how things move to the top of their hearts. No theory covers all people… and of course, I can be just plain wrong.
I have read over and over again about this being the best season. And I have watched the first 4 episodes of the series. But your point is taken.
That said, this post was NOT about how overrated or notoverrated The Wire is. Always amazed how the focus gets narrowed on the oddest things.
DP, understand that you didn’t mean to be patronizing – something about the way you phrased it just kind of made it come off that way. Something along the lines of “aww, look at them, I’m so glad they finally found their show, even if it’s not really as good as they think it is.”
And you should know better than anyone that things tend to get heated when you make an offhanded remark about a series that people feel passionately about, no matter what the focus of the post. Especially if it’s the first time you’ve mentioned it.
Rothchild, as for Battlestar’s tendency to take on political issues, this may actually be my least favorite aspect of the show. I don’t mind using genre shows to make a political point and actually admire it when it’s done well, but BSG does it with all the subtlety of a jackhammer. The early S3 stuff was the biggest offender I thought – so obvious as to be distracting from what is actually a really good genre series. It didn’t “sneak” in anything – it pretty much smacked you in the head with it.
Despite all my complaints (I could go into how the extension of the show since S2 to 22 episodes per season has really hurt it, but I won’t), I’m finding myself anticipating the S4 premiere much more than I thought I would. The S3 finale blew me away despite , and I’m intrigued to see where they take it and how they end it.
TV, in large part, is a complete waste of time. THE WIRE is sublime and the greatest show of any kind ever broadcast on that boob tube.
God, I wish you had to pay something to link that Newsweek article from ’95 about the internet. It’s like stealing.
Bocephus really gets it.
http://hollywood-elsewhere.com/2008/03/death_be_not_pr.php
Scroll down to 8:38 a.m.
Stop raping old media.