May 4, 2024
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It shows how out of it I was in trying to be in it, acknowledging that I was out of it to myself, and then thinking, “Okay, how do I stop being out of it? Well, I get some legitimate illogical narrative ideas” — some novel, you know?
So I decided on three writers that I might be able to option their material and get some producer, or myself as producer, and then get some writer to do a screenplay on it, and maybe make a movie.
And so the three projects were “Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep,” “Naked Lunch” and a collection of Bukowski. Which, in 1975, forget it — I mean, that was nuts. Hollywood would not touch any of that, but I was looking for something commercial, and I thought that all of these things were coming.
There would be no Blade Runner if there was no Ray Bradbury. I couldn’t find Philip K. Dick. His agent didn’t even know where he was. And so I gave up.
I was walking down the street and I ran into Bradbury — he directed a play that I was going to do as an actor, so we know each other, but he yelled “hi” — and I’d forgot who he was.
So at my girlfriend Barbara Hershey’s urging — I was with her at that moment — she said, “Talk to him! That guy really wants to talk to you,” and I said “No, fuck him,” and keep walking.
But then I did, and then I realized who it was, and I thought, “Wait, he’s in that realm, maybe he knows Philip K. Dick.” I said, “You know a guy named—” “Yeah, sure — you want his phone number?”
My friend paid my rent for a year while I wrote, because it turned out we couldn’t get a writer. My friends kept on me about, well, if you can’t get a writer, then you write.”
~ Hampton Fancher
“That was the most disappointing thing to me in how this thing was played. Is that I’m on the phone with you now, after all that’s been said, and the fundamental distinction between what James is dealing with in these other cases is not actually brought to the fore. The fundamental difference is that James Franco didn’t seek to use his position to have sex with anyone. There’s not a case of that. He wasn’t using his position or status to try to solicit a sexual favor from anyone. If he had — if that were what the accusation involved — the show would not have gone on. We would have folded up shop and we would have not completed the show. Because then it would have been the same as Harvey Weinstein, or Les Moonves, or any of these cases that are fundamental to this new paradigm. Did you not notice that? Why did you not notice that? Is that not something notable to say, journalistically? Because nobody could find the voice to say it. I’m not just being rhetorical. Why is it that you and the other critics, none of you could find the voice to say, “You know, it’s not this, it’s that”? Because — let me go on and speak further to this. If you go back to the L.A. Times piece, that’s what it lacked. That’s what they were not able to deliver. The one example in the five that involved an issue of a sexual act was between James and a woman he was dating, who he was not working with. There was no professional dynamic in any capacity.
~ David Simon
I fucking love these. I sure hope this thing isn’t as oppressive as Nixon or paranoid as JFK since they’re selling it as a comedy. Love the boots…is that a sticker on the bottom boot?
And a new poll just put McCain ahead of Obama.
This film is not exactly going to help Barack. It will just be another reminder of who his supporters really are. If anything it will motivate conservatives and moderates to go to McCain even more.
Will Hollyood never learn?
Or maybe it will just remind people about what a dumbfuck Bush is, and do we need another Republican in office? I say that as someone who likes McCain, by the way.
I don’t think Stone is going after Bush necessarily, unlike Michael Moore.
Oh, I really don’t care if films like this get produced or why.
I’m just sayin’ if I was part of Barack Obama’s campaign and saw that he still wasn’t breaking ahead and was actually losing ground in some polls…I would send out a memo to every Hollywood supporter I had to put a moratorium on this sort of stuff until the day after the election.
And remember, I am an Oliver Stone fan and have defended him here plenty of times…but Stone, an actual, living breathing millionaire supporter of communist regimes in 2008, really has no business making a film that infers – anyone – is a “dumbfuck”.
I’m just sayin’.
Will Hollywood never learn?
The top one is pretty good. The bottom one, with befuddled Bush, strikes me as too mean-spirited. Mainstream Americans don’t approve of the job Bush is doing, but they don’t hate him. IMO, people aren’t going to respond positively to that poster.
Are polls reliable now? Or are they only reliable when Obama is losing?
And who exactly are Obama’s supporters Nicol? What are you getting at? My parents, moderate and average middle-class Americans pushing 60, will proudly vote Obama. What does that make them?
Stella,
As usual, you ask a flurry of questions that are based on assuming I said things I didn’t say.
Political campaigns are won in the margins. BO has to appeal to the average voter who put Bush over the top in 00 and 04. He has to convince people who previously voted Bush that they should vote for him.
And if you are not at all worried about those poll numbers…then I am not either.
Just don’t bitch about another “stolen election”. Many of us saw it in the cards.
“It will just be another reminder of who his supporters really are.”
That is what you said and that is what I asked you about. I wanted to know what you meant. I know that it sounded like another one of your routine comments around here, but we all know what assuming does.
When Obama was up in every single poll, polling was unreliable and unpredictable and nothing to put faith in. Is that not true now that McCain is up in one poll?
I, for one, certainly haven’t bitched about a “stolen election.”
Anybody who votes McCain is a fool. There I said. Fuck you GOP for fucking up my country. Now get out of the way.
“I wanted to know what you meant. ”
I meant his base which are the far left ideological fringe. Y’know, to the far left of the average voter.
And you will assume I meant something racist in 3…2…1…
Take it away Stella!
“When Obama was up in every single poll, polling was unreliable and unpredictable and nothing to put faith in. ”
I said that? Hey, like I said…if you are not worried about the stagnating and dropping polls…neither am I.
Something racist?
Is McCain’s base the far right ideological fringe? Far to the right of the average voter? What makes you an expert on Obama’s base anyway? All of the reports and documents you have read, the same things that make you an expert on the U.S. media?
Stella,
I have a degree in Political Science. I have studied it as much as film. Yes, I know a thing or two about politics and demographics and base of support.
No, McCain’s base is not the far right. The far right wants nothing to do with McCain. He has to fight to keep conservatives in his camp. McCain, is seen as too left wing to the right. They do not trust him.
McCain is a poor candidate who is only doing as well as he is because Obama is so far left.
If Clinton had gotten the nod, this thing would not have been anywhere near as close.
She was/is far more saleable in a general election and I’ll bet right now the DNC is terrified at those poll numbers even if you are not.
“Yes, I know a thing or two about politics and demographics and base of support.”
Could have fooled me. You endlessly droning on and on about how far left Obama is does not make it so. We’ll see how well McCain did come November. I am not worried about one poll. I’m sure the DNC feels the same.
“You endlessly droning on and on about how far left Obama is does not make it so.”
No…my saying it over and over does not make it so.
What makes it so is his voting record and base of support (Hollywood, academia etc.)
Hey…I still think BO will win. But in no way is it a sure thing or in the bag. And yes there are nervous about the poll because they know it matters. That’s politics.
Flip side, after BO’s speech next week I expect a huge boost for him. The key for him will be to sustain it past Labour Day.
Stella, if there’s one thing I’ve learned about Nicol over the years, it’s that he doesn’t live in the same universe as you or I and there’s no point arguing with him, because his reality is so askew that it’s basically just beating your head into a wall.
And I mean that with all due respect, Nicol.
“The bottom one, with befuddled Bush, strikes me as too mean-spirited.”
Yes, because the GOP really hates mean-spirited folk like Rush Limbaugh and Savage and Mr. Laughs At Those He’s About To Execute.
How about this jack-ass prez on his hands and knees looking for WMD’s at that press dinner? Now that was some warm hearted humor while our troops are dying for his lies.
Jesus, what planet do you live on mystery and nicol?
You’re right jeff. It is a useless waste of time.
Stella, I wish it wasn’t. I’ve always tried to get Nicol to explain himself rationally and clearly, but he’s very, very good at dodging questions and obfuscating answers, which is why I thought he must have been a lawyer or in PR in the early days (not that I have any idea what is he does do). But I do not consider him to be conversing in good faith with common understanding as one of his goals.
I have watched you & others futilely try to get Nicol to explain himself rationally and clearly. I should know better.
It’s also worth pointing out that Obama’s numbers have been sinking, not because of anything to do with his ‘far-left ideology’, which hasn’t changed in the last couple of weeks, but because of McCain’s successful ‘celebrity’ ads and because Obama’s been on vacation while McCain has been trying to start a war with Russia.
I wonder if Nicol, being in Canada, has access to the same information on American politics that actual Americans have.
Good question jeff. And of course your analysis is far more accurate.
JEB IN ’12.
Bush owns. $600 check, KNOW. Name another president who bought yours truly 600 bucks worth of vodka.
Lex is a dumbfuck too! At least George Bush is funny.
And that 600 was already ripped off from your wallet when Enron plundered the California energy market and as our pals in Saudi jacked up prices.
But then being drunk is the only way one could think Bush owns.
I think Lex mispelled Bobby Jindal’s name.
Expensive gas OWNS by the way; It weeds out all the hypocrites, assholes and phonies who bitch about PAYING AT THE PUMP at the same time they’re buying BluRay players for the back of their SUVs and gaming consoles and cigarettes and fast food and computer software and all manner of other luxury items.
But that extra few bucks a week on gas is what’s gonna send them to skid row.
Now to make a point about these posters:
In the top one Brolin looks like Tom Brokaw.
“Expensive gas OWNS by the way;”
Unless you’re not a blueray buying bitch but some lower income shlub who has a family and has to drive to work or for work.
See Lex, all that crap culture you slurp has turned your brain to guacamole. Along with the booze.
Once again, Lex is just being honest about his total selfishness and disregard for anyone who isn’t him or a supermodel.
I think Brolin looks more like Jason Sudeikis in that top picture.
Christian, I said it “weeds out” the phonies. But guarantee you 90% of the people I see or hear bitching about “getting pinched at the pump” are not poor workaday schlubs gassing up the ’85 LeBaron to put food on the table, but rather limousine liberal blowhards who’ve seized on a bullshit populist issue.
Even before the prices completely skyrocketed, I remember Chris Rock on Maher interrupting everyone’s cogent arguments to rant about “Why is gas so expensive?” And the place would go apeshit each and every time. Serious discussion of the issues? Snooze. GAS AND TAXES? LET’S GET INVOLVED!
And really, like Chris Rock couldn’t afford it if it was $40 a gallon.
I also want to say one thing that makes Obama look like a weak douche is how he ADDRESSES EACH AND EVERY CRITICISM in a bullshit self-righteous speech. Bush has been called everything under the sun and just lets it slide, just keeps on trucking. Because he’s BATMAN. Obama’s gonna be calling press conferences every other day to explain himself away against talk show monologues.
Bush = total OWNAGE.
“But guarantee you 90% of the people I see or hear bitching about “getting pinched at the pump” are not poor workaday schlubs gassing up the ’85 LeBaron to put food on the table,”
Yes, I bet you spend 90% of your time among the poor and disenfranchised. Hence your Bush love.
But debating you is like debating a kid in Special Ed. But true, Bush does own you. Like a bitch.
Three college degrees.
But in the interest of full disclosure, I failed poli-sci. That shit was boring as hell.
Sounds like you’ve also failed at life.
Zing!
Nah, I do OK.
Fuck yeah.
“Yes, because the GOP really hates mean-spirited folk like Rush Limbaugh and Savage and Mr. Laughs At Those He’s About To Execute.”
I said that mainstream Americans might find it mean-spirited.
“Jesus, what planet do you live on mystery and nicol?”
The planet where a person’s opinions do not have to be filtered the a prism of bitterness and rage?
“I’ve always tried to get Nicol to explain himself rationally and clearly, but he’s very, very good at dodging questions and obfuscating answers…”
Actually, Nicol answered everyone of Stella’s questions. Nicol didn’t claim that polls favoring Obama were unreliable. Nicol said that Obama’s base is ideologically left (and includes academia and Hollywood), further so than McCain’s base is to the right.
And to be fair, many of Stella Boy’s questions are framed rhetorically.
..that should read “filtered through a prism of bitterness and rage.”
“I said that mainstream Americans might find it mean-spirited.”
Who seem to not care that junkie sex-tourist Limbaugh is a good friend of Bush Jr. and Sr.? Imagine if Clinton was a regular caller to Howard Stern…
And why do you worry about the reaction of “mainstream America” to a movie poster but not the President who surrounds himself with mean-spirited sleaze like Rove Limbaugh Hannity etc.?
Primarily because Americans expect Republicans to play foul and dirty and they get away with it.
And mystery, how should mainstream Americans react to John McCain’s celebrity cameo in a raunchy R rated Hollywood film called “The Wedding Crashers”?
Mystery, Nicol more or less answered Stella’s questions yesterday, but in my long-term experience he’s pretty evasive and juggles a lot of his answers with unnecessary legalese.
Nicol claims to be an astute political observer. However, because of one poll in August showing McCain with a lead, Obama and the entire DNC are supposed to be terrified. This despite the constant reminders that polls are unreliable and the fact that according to RealClearPolitics Obama still leads McCain when all available polls are combined.
I haven’t read most of this stuff, but please allow me to point out – since the traditional media doesn’t seem to feel like it, as “Obama’s Down” is the better story – that Obama is still up 3 points in most legit polls… that the “dead heat” is because there is a possible 3 point statistical variation in polls of this size… but that also means that Obama may still be 6 points up… or UNCHANGED.
True, although the likeliest trend is that Obama is indeed down somewhat (although still with a slight lead) thanks to the negative ads.
I’m hoping he doesn’t pick somebody boring and safe for VP like Biden.
“And why do you worry about the reaction of “mainstream America” to a movie poster but not the President who surrounds himself with mean-spirited sleaze like Rove Limbaugh Hannity etc.?”
I’m just sharing my opinion on the effectiveness of those posters.
“Mystery, Nicol more or less answered Stella’s questions yesterday, but in my long-term experience he’s pretty evasive and juggles a lot of his answers with unnecessary legalese.”
And in my long-term experience, you regularly eshew direct responses for condescension and ad hominem comments. This thread is just another example, and you did so in an instance where he DID answer the questions.
“However, because of one poll in August showing McCain with a lead, Obama and the entire DNC are supposed to be terrified.”
I don’t think it unreasonable to think that the Obama campaign is scrambling a little bit over this poll. It would be careless of them to dismiss it outright. I don’t think its time to panic, though.
“I haven’t read most of this stuff, but please allow me to point out – since BLAH BLAH BLAH – that Obama is still up 3 points in most legit polls… that the “dead heat” is because there is a possible 3 point statistical variation in polls of this size… but that also means that Obama may still be 6 points up… or UNCHANGED.”
By that logic, Obama may also be down 8 POINTS.
Reuters/Zogby is as legit as any poll. According to their numbers, the economy is the number one issue, by a 36% margin over the number 2 issue. And according to their poll, who do Americans believe can best manage the economy? Why, McCain, of course, by a 49% to 40% margin (well beyond the margin of error).
But it’s correct to suggest that this poll may be an aberration. I’d certainly rather be in Obama’s position, based on the polls. What you can take away from the poll is that McCain CAN overtake Obama in a poll.
“And in my long-term experience, you regularly eshew direct responses for condescension and ad hominem comments. This thread is just another example, and you did so in an instance where he DID answer the questions.”
I’m sorry you feel that way, but obviously I disagree. I’m open to any honest, rational discussion though.
mystery, I’ve always been more of a “polls are unreliable” type. They make good stories for the media, especially in an era of the 24/7 news cycle and seemingly endless presidential campaigns. I just think that, for someone who claims to be so politically aware, it was quite foolish for Nicol to pronounce that Obama and the DNC are panicking about one poll in August. He gives a single poll way too much importance.
Also, you may feel that my questions are mainly rhetorical, but actually they are almost always sincere. I often do want him to clarify or explain things, particularly because I feel so much of what he says is way off base or rooted in simplistic reasoning (the kind he decries when it involves anything he perceives as attacking the right or the religious).
jeffmcm– “I’m sorry you feel that way, but obviously I disagree.”
Your first post in this thread is an ideal example of what I asserted. If your definition of what constitues a ‘rational’ discussion determines how you respond, then you obviously find many discussions here to be irrational. I do appreciate your more sincere contributions, though.
Stella’s Boy– “mystery, I’ve always been more of a “polls are unreliable” type. They make good stories for the media, especially in an era of the 24/7 news cycle and seemingly endless presidential campaigns.”
Polls can definately be unreliable– I’ve seen demographic breakdowns on presidential approval polls where there is a 15% gap in representation between political parties. More than that, though, is that their shelf life is nil. It doesn’t matter if Obama was up 25% in June. It matters more, but still little, that McCain is up in a poll now.
I don’t think Nicol is putting overdue emphasis on this particular poll. I just think he’s just tweaking the Obamaniacs.
“Also, you may feel that my questions are mainly rhetorical, but actually they are almost always sincere.”
Any question you raise that tells me what your position is is a rhetorical question, imo. But what makes you one of my favorite contributors here is that you DO ask sincere questions. Keep it up.
“Any question you raise that tells me what your position is is a rhetorical question, imo. But what makes you one of my favorite contributors here is that you DO ask sincere questions. Keep it up.”
A very fair analysis. And thank you. I’m glad you feel that way. Likewise. Though I know we disagree a lot, if I see your name, I know the post will be reasonable and thoughtful.
Mystery, you hit the nail on the head. I was being completely sincere in all my posts on this thread, and I consider Nicol’s position on this subject to be irrational and/or dishonest (not sure which); in short, I do not consider his intentions to be in good faith. I think his first post on the thread pretty clearly illustrates that since it consists of a gloat, a germ of conversation, and another gloat.
All that said, I agree with Stella that your posts (Mystery’s) are always considered and even-handed.
To get pack on point, I think that this movie will flop because (a) people are going to be exhausted with politics by the time this comes out, (b) Stone’s last attempt at comedy (U Turn) didn’t work out too well, and (c) who is going to want to see a movie about an unpopular President? Wake me when Jimmy Carter gets turned into a Broadway musical.
When is any political movie a big draw? Weren’t JFK and Nixon only moderate sucesses…less so with Nixon?
JFK grossed $205 million worldwide, 17 years ago, not bad for a 3 1/2 hour long movie that basically consists of nonstop exposition.
Wow, that’s a good haul for that movie.
Nixon, not so much (domestic less than $14m) – but like I said, unpopular President = unpopular movie.
This is a total nitpick but it gives me a chance to gripe about a pet peeve: director’s cuts that ruin the movie as we remember it…
JFK was in fact only a notch over three hours when released (187 m. I believe.) When it hit VHS (but not pay TV) Stone did his usual Lucasian tinkering and added that ABSOLUTELY HORRIBLE SCENE with John Laroquette as a stand-in Carson (who I believe has a totally fictitious name, which is like having a completely made-up movie star in the midst of a movie that’s dealing with history.)
Not only that, I think people are tired of Bush as a topic. At this point, I suspect that there’s been more media (books, TV shows, documentaries, TV/print news coverage, music, etc.) dedicated to Bush than any president in history.
So I agree that the timing is bad, but I can’t decide when the timing would be good.
In like forty years.
“Not only that, I think people are tired of Bush as a topic.”
Amen to that. I am more than tired of talking about him, even if I wimp out and do so from time to time. I am so ready to move on.
I’m not. America needs to keep him in mind when they vote. He represents today’s GOP and their failed policies. McSame should not escape the connection.
Wanting to move on to a different topic doesn’t mean forgetting Bush or his failed policies. Not for me anyways.