The AP (home of the neck & neck poll of 50% evangelicals) story
ADD, 1:24p – What Fox News said yesterday
(45 minutes and counting of me watching Fox News without a mention of the story aboiut the falsification.)
ADD, 1:42p – From the now removed MySpace page of the hoaxer… amazing…
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It shows how out of it I was in trying to be in it, acknowledging that I was out of it to myself, and then thinking, “Okay, how do I stop being out of it? Well, I get some legitimate illogical narrative ideas” ā some novel, you know?
So I decided on three writers that I might be able to option their material and get some producer, or myself as producer, and then get some writer to do a screenplay on it, and maybe make a movie.
And so the three projects were “Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep,” “Naked Lunch” and a collection of Bukowski. Which, in 1975, forget it ā I mean, that was nuts. Hollywood would not touch any of that, but I was looking for something commercial, and I thought that all of these things were coming.
There would be no Blade Runner if there was no Ray Bradbury. I couldn’t find Philip K. Dick. His agent didn’t even know where he was. And so I gave up.
I was walking down the street and I ran into Bradbury ā he directed a play that I was going to do as an actor, so we know each other, but he yelled “hi” ā and I’d forgot who he was.
So at my girlfriend Barbara Hershey’s urging ā I was with her at that moment ā she said, “Talk to him! That guy really wants to talk to you,” and I said “No, fuck him,” and keep walking.
But then I did, and then I realized who it was, and I thought, “Wait, he’s in that realm, maybe he knows Philip K. Dick.” I said, “You know a guy namedā” “Yeah, sure ā you want his phone number?”
My friend paid my rent for a year while I wrote, because it turned out we couldn’t get a writer. My friends kept on me about, well, if you can’t get a writer, then you write.”
~ Hampton Fancher
“That was the most disappointing thing to me in how this thing was played. Is that Iām on the phone with you now, after all thatās been said, and the fundamental distinction between what James is dealing with in these other cases is not actually brought to the fore. The fundamental difference is that James Franco didnāt seek to use his position to have sex with anyone. Thereās not a case of that. He wasnāt using his position or status to try to solicit a sexual favor from anyone. If he had ā if that were what the accusation involved ā the show would not have gone on. We would have folded up shop and we would have not completed the show. Because then it would have been the same as Harvey Weinstein, or Les Moonves, or any of these cases that are fundamental to this new paradigm. Did you not notice that? Why did you not notice that? Is that not something notable to say, journalistically? Because nobody could find the voice to say it. Iām not just being rhetorical. Why is it that you and the other critics, none of you could find the voice to say, āYou know, itās not this, itās thatā? Because ā let me go on and speak further to this. If you go back to the L.A. TimesĀ piece, thatās what it lacked. Thatās what they were not able to deliver. The one example in the five that involved an issue of a sexual act was between James and a woman he was dating, who he was not working with. There was no professional dynamic in any capacity.
~ David Simon
I know this is supposed to make me angry. But, really, I just feel sad.
I actually makes me very, very happy.
Because now all the RWers who jumped at this story (especially as a way of counterpointing the very real assault on the Obama canvasser in Chicago) are going to have to admit it was ploy, raising the suspicion the campaign did it.
Not to mention, that the rest of media will also be running it now that the $150K clothing story is getting old. So that going into the weekend, the two lead stories for the election are “Obama Visits Sick Grandmother” and “McCain Volunteer Falsely Blames Black Man For Fake Attack.”
Considering the simply slimey campaign McCain is running, couldn’t have happened to a nicer guy…
Only the most extremely partisan hack would believe this was the doing of the campaign. This reflects no more on McCain than it would on Obama if her story were true.
This was the work of a mentally disturbed young girl, who also happens to moonlight as the world’s worst liar.
Josh – I would agree that only the most extremely partisan hack would assume with some level of assurance that anyone with the McCain campaign knew about this.
But only the the most extremely partisan hack on the others side would automatically argue just as surely that McCain’s folks had nothing to do with it.
For you to be writing off as “the work of a mentally disturbed young girl” is, at least, grossly premature and defensive.
You may be right.
You may be wrong.
After all that happened, Watergate never made any sense… and this would actually make more sense as a desperate act from some renegade McCain staffer.
I am perfectly willing to buy the idea that she acted on her own and is either distrurbed or fanatical.
But none of us know the answer to that right now.
I’m pretty sure that Mr “the amount of thought you’ve put into it and the suggestion that this incident was orchestrated by the McCain camp is borderline OCD, and as scary as the notion of someone attacking another over politics” owes me an apology.
If the McCain camp in Pennsylvania had been involved, they would have done a less incompetent job.
Weird, last night I was reading further articles about this and I starting thinking, there’s a 50/50 shot this is totally made up. Doesn’t surprise me that this was reported as fact, or that it turned out to be a lie.
You know why I’m sure the official McCain campaign had nothing to do with this? Because it was so freaking incompetent and transparent from the get-go (you can make jokes about how this is the way the entire campaign has been run, but that’s all they would be). The backward B. The fact it was supposedly done with a knife that doesn’t pierce skin. The painfully obvious Twitter updates. No medical attention.
If any sane adult mind had a hand in this, it wouldn’t have been so awfully and easily see-through (and I was calling her “full o’ crap” on Wells’ site yesterday afternoon).
Drudge will never hesitate to jump on a story like this, but has ignored the story about the dead cub covered in Omaba stickers in NC. Typical.
But one of the most interesting things about the emerging story was that it was being told by the McCain campaign, much more so than by the police. Read yesterday’s stories.
Dead cub covered in Obama stickers sounds like right wingers against Obama, no?
There’s a difference between causing a story to exist, and then pouncing upon it once it had broken and exploiting it for whatever gain they could. I mean, both are pretty nasty, but one involves criminality and the other doesn’t.
“I’m pretty sure that Mr “the amount of thought you’ve put into it and the suggestion that this incident was orchestrated by the McCain camp is borderline OCD, and as scary as the notion of someone attacking another over politics” owes me an apology.”
Why? What was my first comment on the incident?
“There’s nothing wrong with getting a suspicious vibe about the incident.”
But you didn’t stop there. Your knee-jerk reaction was followed by an investigation and public assertion that the McCain camp would orchestrate such an incident– that remains borderline OCD. And now you have the audacity to criticize Josh Massey for making a “premature” assertion. Incredible.
I think you’re having difficulty identifying when apologies are appropriate. You still owe me an apology for smearing me while being wrong wrong wrong about Obama’s tax plan. And until its revealed that the McCain camp had a hand in this incident, I will not apologize for overlooking the fact that sometimes a paranoid person IS being followed.
Mystery:
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/10/mccain-spokesma.html
Joe:
What do you take away from that blog entry?
Firstly, mystery, I don’t think you know what OCD means.
Secondly, I was right about the whole thing smelling wrong.
And thirdly, as I keep saying, none of us know how this all happened. And the TPM thing may be a dead end too. But the idea that any of us can rule out any of the options here is absurd. And I don’t know why you and Josh keep putting your feet so deep in the cement.
You know how much thought I put into it? About 10 minutes. About as much as I put into that bullshit neck-n-neck poll that turned out to be 50% evangelicals.
And doesn’t it bother you that one of the top guys at Fox News said that if this turned out to be a hoax, it would end McCain?
I certainly don’t think John McCain said, “Go do this.” But there are a lot of people on the food chain and if, as was reported on Fox News today, they think they are really just 4 points from winning in PA, some misguided schmuck, like the ones who dress up monkeys with Obama stickers or local republican chaimen who call him “Barack Hussein Obama.”
Or the ones who call Obama a socialist or say he pals around with terrorists or ominously ask, “Who is the real Barack Obama?” Oops… back to the candidates.
This is more detailed:
http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Reporter_Attack_hoax_story_first_leaked_1024.html
The point is, they were pushing it before it was confirmed. (At best; at worst, they knew details they shouldn’t have, which would bring it to another level.)
Can you say Dan Rather? This is McCain’s Memogate.
Frankbooth: Seconded.
Meanwhile, Drudge’s top story is “Joe the Plumber scared of Obama.” There’s a smaller story about the hoax below it.
Where’s the apology?
I’m somewhat curious what it is that Mystery is taking away from that Andrew Sullivan link above – it really isn’t something with multiple angles. The link is, pretty clearly, about all the stuff Frank Booth just mentioned. There isn’t a softer side to it.
BTW: To be fair, one of the very first political pundits to question this woman’s story was… Michelle Malkin. No kidding. Yes, I have just written something complimentary about Michelle Freakin’ Malkin. Excuse me, I’m going outside to watch the flying pigs.
“Firstly, mystery, I don’t think you know what OCD means.”
But I do. I wasn’t making a clinical diagnosis, I merely characterizing your obsession with this stuff (as Wikipedia states, it can informally describe a person “absorbed in a cause, or otherwise fixated on something or someone”).
“Secondly, I was right about the whole thing smelling wrong.
Those particular instincts were correct. Suspicion was a perfectly reasonable response from the start. That wasn’t the target of my criticism.
“But the idea that any of us can rule out any of the options here is absurd.
I didn’t rule it out. I stated that “most anything is possible.” But I balked at your conspiratorial-minded reaction. What’s the title of your blog entry addressing the incident? “Timing is Everything”. You were looking at McCain’s camp from the jump. Its proper place was at the bottom of the pile, after everything else had been picked over.
And doesn’t it bother you that one of the top guys at Fox News said that if this turned out to be a hoax, it would end McCain?
I’ve never even heard of that guy.
“But there are a lot of people on the food chain”
I thought you abhorred ‘guilt by association’. There have been numerous incidents of bad behavior by Obama supporters. If we’re using news stories as the count, then there have been many more on Obama’s side than McCain’s. Do these incidents reflect badly on Obama? No, not one iota. I wouldn’t even float the assertion that you led with.
Okay, I’ll bite:
What is the ‘count’ of Obama-supporter-wrongdoing vs. McCain-supporter-wrongdoing?
“I’m somewhat curious what it is that Mystery is taking away from that Andrew Sullivan link above – it really isn’t something with multiple angles.”
I assume the contention is that the quote in question (“You’re with the McCain campaign? I’m going to teach you a lesson.”) originated with McCain spokesman. But consider– is there any reason why this spokesman would have a more detailed account than we’ve heard? Yes, actually. This girl spoke to the McCain camp directly. I’m not privvy to those conversations. Neither am I aware of everything she told the police, or anyone else for that matter. Is someone here contending that this girl never said the quote in question? In my opinion, this needs to be ruled out before playing Clue with the tidbits we have.
“Okay, I’ll bite:
What is the ‘count’ of Obama-supporter-wrongdoing vs. McCain-supporter-wrongdoing?”
I haven’t actually been counting. Its anectotal, but I’ve personally seen many more reports of vandalism, intimidation, etc. from Obama supporters. But again, it doesn’t reflect on Obama, or even his support at large. That was my point.
Okay, that’s fine. So therefore, Mystery, I think that this quote:
“If we’re using news stories as the count, then there have been many more on Obama’s side than McCain’s.”
needs to be amended as misleading? Because, in my anecdotal experience, I’ve seen many more reports of wrongdoing coming from the McCain side than the Obama side.
If you actually have seen more reports of wrongdoing from McCain supporters, and think your experience is fairly comprehensive, then you should discount my experience. For what its worth, my experience doesn’t include the frequenting of conservative blogs, which would conceivably highlight any and all reports.
I hope we can agree on my actual point, that these incidents are not condoned and should not be attributed as such to either candidate.
I certainly don’t think that my experience is comprehensive, merely that different people see different things and that, in the absence of actual statistics, it’s improper to suggest that one campaign is more thuggish than the other.
And I think that I’ve been pretty clear in earlier statements that I don’t think that this whackjob girl’s stunt had anything to do with the McCain campaign beyond their pouncing on it for publicity.
Sorry Mystery… that’s bullshit. If a campaign office jumps on a lie or orchestrates a lie. This means that the campaign has something to do with the LIE! THIS EVIL FUCKING RACIST FALSEHOOD.
You obviously do not live in the South mystery. If you did. You would understand lies like these still work with some people. Hell; Harold Ford lost a senate election because of similar “BLACK MEN DEFILING WHITE WOMEN” bullshit.
So please take your shiftless bullshit, and stick it where the world has stuck you… in a fucking closet. Freakin conservatives. Your days have to come to an end for the betterment of us all.
IOIOIOIO posts on DP’s blog…DP allows it… DP doesn’t condemn it… DP makes similar points, in a similar tone…
That’s it. DP and IOIOIOIO are in cahoots. Maybe I’m being unfair, but the way all this has gone, DP has earned it. š
Mystery: Look, dude, I can feel your pain. Seriously. The first time I voted in a Presidential campaign, I voted for George McGovern. And later, I backed Carter against Reagan. So I know what it’s like to be on the wrong end of a tidal wave. But you need to quit whining and accept the fact that, in a few days, the 500-pound shit hammer is going to drop on you and your kind. Maybe you might want to just go away for a while, and come back when we’re just talking about movies.
She should have that goddamn ‘B’ tatooed on her cheek until Barack Obama finishes his term/s in office. That would be justice. Not as much as Dennis Prager getting the same ink, but hey!
“The point is, they were pushing it before it was confirmed.”
That’s how these things usually work.
Somebody claims some sort of attack or noose being hung on their door or whatever. The media jumps on it. There is very public outcry against it. People jump on it saying that the incident proves that other people are bad. When it turns out to be a hoax, it all blows over until the next time it happens (though, sometimes, the hoaxer is praised for bringing light to such an important subject).
What the people who use these hoaxes to attempt to push a political agenda never do, though, is wait for confirmation.
‘500-pound shit hammer…’
damn, joe, that’s a good one, i’m going to use it (please don’t sue).
i don’t know if it’s just me being in a good mood or having acid flashbacks or what today but everything is funny
mystery: the pain is coming. Your time has come to an end. You need to get on the boats, head to the Grey Havens, and bid the rest of us afuckingdieu.
The one thing I hate more than a sore loser is a sore winner. Can’t you guys direct your energies to races that are still up for grabs, like Prop 8 in California?
And in the category of Stuff I Would Not Dare Make Up:
“Maurita Bryant, the assistant chief of the police department’s investigations division, said Todd is being charged with making a false police report.
“Police doubted her story from the start, Bryant said.
“‘She just opened up and said she wanted to tell the truth,’ Bryant said, according to the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review. ‘She was upset with the media for blowing this into a political firestorm.’“
This flip-flop artist supreme even tried to infiltrate the Ron Paul campaign.
Her calling must be that of a dirty tricks artist. You don’t go blowing into Pittsburgh as a College Republican from Aggieland wearing a Vols hoodie without drawing attention.
Donald Segretti would be so proud :D!
After reading chucky’s link, I have to say, it seems a lot more likely that the College Republican National Committee turned this into a false event and that the McCain camp only sought to capitalize in their typically unvetted, unthought out way.
I noted that Drudge was the only one with the photo when he posted it. This report says, “He said he only gave copies of the photos to police and Ms. Todd’s employer, the College Republicans.”
So it follows that the CRNC leaked the image to Drudge.
It also is amusing that Fox News apparently decided to claim that the image had been flipped to try to legitimize the backwards “B.”
And amazingly, the lies from the McCain camp continue, even though this girl is being discredited as a loon by most media and by the police who are keeping her in custody so, essentially, she doesn’t hurt herself anymore.
Why keep lying? Fire the guy who jumped the gun and move along.
This is exactly how Watergate happened. It’s never the incident, it’s the cover up. I am not accusing McCain himself, but his people are idiots.
“It also is amusing that Fox News apparently decided to claim that the image had been flipped to try to legitimize the backwards ‘B.'”
Wow, you think they got the idea from my snarky little devil’s advocate routine here on the Hot Blog?
It takes a kind of will power that these campaign machines don’t have to just sit back and see how such things play out. But no, they’ve got to run with it, because they want it to be true sooo badly. And the media doesn’t care, because now it’s two scandalous stories for the price of one.