It shows how out of it I was in trying to be in it, acknowledging that I was out of it to myself, and then thinking, “Okay, how do I stop being out of it? Well, I get some legitimate illogical narrative ideas” — some novel, you know?
So I decided on three writers that I might be able to option their material and get some producer, or myself as producer, and then get some writer to do a screenplay on it, and maybe make a movie.
And so the three projects were “Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep,” “Naked Lunch” and a collection of Bukowski. Which, in 1975, forget it — I mean, that was nuts. Hollywood would not touch any of that, but I was looking for something commercial, and I thought that all of these things were coming.
There would be no Blade Runner if there was no Ray Bradbury. I couldn’t find Philip K. Dick. His agent didn’t even know where he was. And so I gave up.
I was walking down the street and I ran into Bradbury — he directed a play that I was going to do as an actor, so we know each other, but he yelled “hi” — and I’d forgot who he was.
So at my girlfriend Barbara Hershey’s urging — I was with her at that moment — she said, “Talk to him! That guy really wants to talk to you,” and I said “No, fuck him,” and keep walking.
But then I did, and then I realized who it was, and I thought, “Wait, he’s in that realm, maybe he knows Philip K. Dick.” I said, “You know a guy named—” “Yeah, sure — you want his phone number?”
My friend paid my rent for a year while I wrote, because it turned out we couldn’t get a writer. My friends kept on me about, well, if you can’t get a writer, then you write.”
~ Hampton Fancher
“That was the most disappointing thing to me in how this thing was played. Is that I’m on the phone with you now, after all that’s been said, and the fundamental distinction between what James is dealing with in these other cases is not actually brought to the fore. The fundamental difference is that James Franco didn’t seek to use his position to have sex with anyone. There’s not a case of that. He wasn’t using his position or status to try to solicit a sexual favor from anyone. If he had — if that were what the accusation involved — the show would not have gone on. We would have folded up shop and we would have not completed the show. Because then it would have been the same as Harvey Weinstein, or Les Moonves, or any of these cases that are fundamental to this new paradigm. Did you not notice that? Why did you not notice that? Is that not something notable to say, journalistically? Because nobody could find the voice to say it. I’m not just being rhetorical. Why is it that you and the other critics, none of you could find the voice to say, “You know, it’s not this, it’s that”? Because — let me go on and speak further to this. If you go back to the L.A. Times piece, that’s what it lacked. That’s what they were not able to deliver. The one example in the five that involved an issue of a sexual act was between James and a woman he was dating, who he was not working with. There was no professional dynamic in any capacity.
~ David Simon
With all due respect to Silver, and to you, what you’re doing here is parroting conventional wisdom. Truth is, Silver lost whatever career momentum he got from Enemies and Reversal of Fortune (at least as far as playing movie leads are concerned) years before his political switch. Seriously: He was playing villains in direct-to-video movies as early as 1996. He was a very fine actor — and, by weird coincidence, when I viewed Enemies for the first time several days ago, I found myself wondering, “What the heck ever happened to this guy’s movie career?” Trouble is, I found myself asking the very same question back when I reviewed Deadly Outbreak. The sad truth is that, for some reason, for some people, the magic doesn’t happen. http://www.variety.com/review/VE1117911630.html?categoryid=31&cs=1
A few plum roles from the last few years: A small but important supporting turn in “Ali,” the judge in Lumet’s “Find Me Guilty.” And it seemed like his sympathetic father in Bruckheimer’s porn TV show “Skin” could’ve been an indelible part, had the show actually caught on instead of getting axed so early in its run.
Doesn’t he have some awesome throwaway in “Timecop” where he sees himself, presumably heftier and older in the future, and tells himself, “Lay off the candy bars.” Always get a chuckle over that line.
Probably first saw the guy in the crazy, often-mentioned-here Chuck Norris slasher movie-Frankenstein-martial arts hybrid, “Silent Rage.”
Obviously he had better and deeper roles (like Enemies and Reversal) than the B-stuff I’m pointing out, but just goes to show that he made an impression even in small parts or kitschy movies.
Genuinely curious, DP– what qualified Ron Silver’s positions as “extreme” right? What was “extreme” about them? I know he supported the Iraq War, and voted for Bush, but I am otherwise unfamiliar with his positions. Lacking that, calling his views “extreme” just seems like a cheap marginalization tactic (in an obit, no less). Extreme?
After a little more research, the “extreme” dig is looking more and more like a cheap (and ignorant) marginalization tactic. Silver was quoted as saying, “On many social issues, if [Bush] wins — and I hope he does and I will try to help him — on November 3 I’ll be on the other side of the barricades when it comes to stem cell research, gay rights and other social issues.” Those “other” issues include health care and gun control. He switched his party affiliation from Democrat to Independent.
Shame on you.
Even the NY Post referred to Silver as being radical right.
“Once a self-identified lifelong Democrat, Silver was a founding member of the liberal-leaning Creative Coalition in 1989. But he made a breathtaking political transformation, going from far left to radical right after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.”
http://www.nypost.com/seven/03152009/news/regionalnews/ron_silver_dies_159710.htm
Oooooo, the NEW YORK POST! Its simply some other writer making the same lazy mistake. I offered actual facts that contradict the “radical” and “extreme” labels. But I’ll cut you some slack, Stella, you may have missed my second post. 🙂
Thank you, oh wise and generous one, for cutting me some slack. You went all “fair and balanced” and totally put DP in his place. A quick google search and you are ready to write Ron Silver’s biography.
Really sad, not as sad as his passing, to see all the libs beating the poor guy before he’s even cold. Just tired of the whole thing. Sick of hearing about some actor who is left or right or down the middle or whatever. Guess what? Don’t care and don’t see what it matters, either. All I care about, like Silver, is the work he did on stage and screen and it doesn’t take a lefty or a rightie to see the man was talented, more so than most. the fact that he was in any kind of “wilderness” because of his political views only shows how sad and pathetic the Hollywood system is. It’s not a stain on Mr. Silver or his loved ones, but on the bloggers and people who have to belittle the man cause his heart didn’t bleed pink. God bless you, sir. RIP.
DP: I’m a fan, but this stuff gets old. to be fair though, yours is like the tenth mvie blog I’ve read this morning where they had to tear the poor guy a new one for his beliefs.
Ali – He played Ali’s trainer. Very understated. Was never given a big “moment” or big “speech” like you see in boxing movies. But I thought he was great.
West Wing – the pre-Karl Rove so to speak, or just ruthless advisor. Just great stuff.
Please don’t misunderstand: I’m not taking the man to task for his politics. I’m saying that we shouldn’t be so quick to accept the conventional career that his career went into a tailspin because he supported George Bush after 9/11 because of some massive liberal conspiracy. We’re not talking about somebody who was pulling down $10 million a movie in 2001, and couldn’t land sitcom guest spots in 2002. We’re talking about a very fine journeyman actor who, maybe, had a brief shot at movie stardom, and missed — very likely, through no fault of his own– but kept on working. And, remember, he did Veronica’s Closet and Shadow Zone: The Undead Express way before 9/11.
Of course, the above should read: I’m saying that we shouldn’t be so quick to accept the conventional WISDOM that his career went into a tailspin…
“Thank you, oh wise and generous one, for cutting me some slack.”
It’s not like that. You posted a minute after I posted, so you might not have seen the quote I found, one that quite clearly shows that the labels “radical” and “extreme” (used as pejoratives) are invalid and in poor taste. The guy was liberal in almost every way except terror/defense.
“A quick google search and you are ready to write Ron Silver’s biography.”
Yep. When it comes to getting facts straight, some weren’t up to even THAT challenge. :p
Joe- “Please don’t misunderstand: I’m not taking the man to task for his politics.”
For what its worth, I didn’t think you were. You make a valid point. I suspect that it was a mixture of natural career trajectory and being persona non grata after his political shift. Dennis Miller has certainly continued to get career opportunities (fortunately, no Bordello of Blood sequels).
Mystery: I’m not even sure he was persona non grata after 9/11. Look, on some level, I feel tacky about this, because the man just died, and I respected his work. Hell, I liked him as far back as when he was a regular on Rhoda. But go back and look at his career for the past eight years. (I realize that might not be fair, since he was battling cancer for the past two years, which may have cut down on the jobs he could take, but I’ll grant you those two years anyway.) Now look at the eight years prior to 9/11. I really don’t see that drastic a difference. Do you?
In a weird way, it’s like Bill Maher (who I think is one of the funniest guys in the world) getting canned by ABC in the wake of 9/11 for his intemperate remarks. Was his firing a political decision? You could argue that point. But, really, if the ratings for Politically Incorrect had been all that high, would ABC have dropped to axe so quickly?
mystery: I agree with what you’re saying about Silver, but I don’t see how Dave’s reference to his being “extreme right,” even if incorrect, qualifies as tearing the man a new one. DP praises Silver’s talent, relates a rewarding encounter with him and says he’ll be missed. Seems pretty respectful to me.
Joe: Your argument is very reasonable. The possibility that Silver was not considered for certain jobs by certain people also seems reasonable to me, but I’ll readily admit that its total conjecture. DP seems pretty confident that it happened, so while it may or may not have happened, I think that, in general, it can and does happen. There’s no impetus to stop it.
yancy- on the whole, DP was quite respectful. I don’t mean to make too much of it. But that one remark casts a negative pall on the overall man that Silver was, basically calling him a nut. It just rubbed me the wrong way.
Mystery: Just because Silver believed — sincerely believed — his politics impeded his career doesn’t necessarily make it true. But if you’re asking me if I think his politics NEVER COST HIM A SINGLE GIG — well, no, I would be foolish to believe that. On the other hand: I don’t see where a rightward slant has hurt either Jon Voight or Dennis Hopper. And, hey, it might even help Victoria Jackson.
To be honest: This is one of many things that encouraged me, early on in my college days, to be a writer, not an actor. If someone rejects me for a gig, I’m pretty sure it’s because they didn’t like what I wrote. But to be rejected at an audition — or to never get a crack at the role in the first place — well, there are so many freakin’ variables, intangibles and so on, I think after a while I’d go crazy or become suicidally (or homicidally) bitter. Or spend the wee small hours getting drunk and using all caps to post on blogs. (Just kidding, Lex.) Of course, the fact that I was a pretty good writer, but the worst actor in all of Christendom, helped make the decision a little easier.
Obviously not calling him a nut.
And I didn’t say his career went into a tailspin or that he was a major star who was suddenly blackballed.
He was a working actor with some strong highlight moments who had a much harder time getting the kind of steady work he had gotten for a long time.
There are plenty of right wingers who work all the time in this business. But they keep their light under a bushel. And really, that is true of most of the lefties as well. No one wants to know your politics if you are a movie star. There are those, like Sean Penn or Mel Gibson, who have the weight to flex in spite of being known for their politics. But that is the exception, not the rule.
It would be silly to suggest that there is not a prejudice in this business and all others that works to the benefit of “those like us,” wherever that definition is at any moment. Does Spielberg do a political litmus test of those he works with? No. Does he lose his patience when someone
Actually JOE L – you are a good actor and you have a physical type that is in demand for certain roles … that Gary Watson short that you appeared in … you were the best thing in it …. I would cast you as Big Daddy in Cat on a Hot Tin Roof in a second, and you could no doubt do a Louisiana accent that would put Tommy Lee Jones to shame
David: Again, I agree that it would be foolish to argue that Silver NEVER lost out on a gig because of his politics. I am sure that has happened, just as I am sure there are gigs that, say, Janeane Garofalo has lost out on for her politics. (The comparison isn’t as bizarre as it might seem: There was a period in the ’90s when Garofalo was getting above-the-title roles, and even leads. And yet, as I recall, right around the 9/11, she had a sitcom project scotched, and she claimed politics had a lot to do with it.) But, again, I ask you and Mystery and anyone else to look at Silver’s IMDB credits for the last 16 years — eight before 9/11, eight afterwards — and please tell me what’s the difference?
Actually, this might be a good idea for another thread — actors who appeared on their way to stardom, but didn’t, for whatever reason, sustain the momentum. I’m not talking about people like Mickey Rourke. I’m talking about pros who have kept working, steadily, but never fulfilled what looked like early promise.
Berg: Such mendacity!!
Joe – With Victoria Jackson, I don’t think it’s just politics, but religion too; she’s been revealed as a surprisingly far-right fundamentalist Christian, though hard to take seriously since she made a name for herself playing dumb.
Anyway, given her expressed beliefs, I wouldn’t be surprised if her own personal morals (i.e. disapproval of material offered) took her out of the game more often than not.
Come to think of it, wasn’t she acting all ditzy/sexy on SNL back when Dennis Miller was doing “Weekend Update”?
“Obviously not calling him a nut.”
There’s no other conclusion to draw. What are people on the “extreme” right called? Wingnuts, etc. And for someone to swing wildly between political extremes? Even more suspect. Except that in Silver’s case, its NOT TRUE. Five minutes of research revealed as much. You can either concede that, or validate your assertion.
“And in a small way, this permeates on this blog, as mystery sees my work through a prism created by my support of Obama”
Now you’re trying to marginalize me by pointing to something unrelated. My complaint is fully supported by the content of this thread. Labeling someone “extreme” politically is a pejorative, and in this case, was a false assertion.
What’s more telling is YOUR PRISM, through which someone who probably agreed with you on almost every issue, save ONE, is seen as EXTREME.
Joe- “But, again, I ask you and Mystery and anyone else to look at Silver’s IMDB credits for the last 16 years — eight before 9/11, eight afterwards — and please tell me what’s the difference?”
Why are you asking me? I’ve already said that your logic is solid. But you’re asking us to prove a negative– its impossible to know what his career would have looked like if he didn’t change his stripes. Can we even assume that the roles he wasn’t considered for were BETTER than the roles he took? I think we can agree that any blackballing that occurred was in no way comprehensive enough to create seismic changes we could measure. That’s a good thing.
People on the extreme left are also called crazy all the time.
mystery, David also called him extreme lefty, were you offended by that as well?
Janeane Garofalo can be seen on TV’s “24” this season. That’s hardly a liberal show.
“mystery, David also called him extreme lefty, were you offended by that as well?”
If he were only an extreme lefty, it would have gone unmentioned. But if it’s untrue, and used to marginalize, then yes. A distortion is a distortion. This isn’t partisan. I agreed with Silver on next-to-nothing.
“If he were only an extreme lefty, it would have gone unmentioned.” Exactly.
David was not marginalizing, but you are starting to marginalize yourself.
“Exactly.”
You misunderstood my point, but it was my fault. If Silver was only an extreme lefty, it would have gone unmentioned BY DAVID. Its only the fact that Silver went the other way that compelled DP to mention it.
You don’t think that labeling someone’s ideology as “extreme” marginalizes them?
‘You don’t think that labeling someone’s ideology as “extreme” marginalizes them?’
Considering that’s not all David said about him, no. And for better or for worse, this man’s ideology became news, namely because he made it his business to make it public. This is stuff David already explained, but you seem to want to ignore. There’s really nothing more to discuss, except you having a grudge concerning David’s choice of words about someone he sounds like he had a lot of respect for
Silver was pretty much a regular on the final two seasons of WEST WING, a show crawling with lefties who obviously didn’t care about his beliefs. (He also recurred on CROSSING JORDAN.) And he did state all along that the “switch” was strictly about 9/11 and that he remained liberal on social issues. I believe him.
I think it is extremely disingenuous to compare the politial views of Sean Penn to those of Mel Gibson or those of Jeneane Garofalo to those of Ron Silver on this thread.
Marxist Penn is considered a genuius and just won a best actor Oscar. DeNiro called him a champion of human rights.
Gibson is considered a nutbar and a wackjob on a regular basis by the establishement.
Garofalo still gets premium gigs (24 is a top rated show)…Silver gets called extreme.
Again…we have had this debate here for years but I am glad it is coming more to the forefront in culture. Where being openely conservative, Christian or Catholic hurts in entertainment is not in the A-tier. Marxists like Penn or Damon will always work for an Eastwood to boost their standing. Gibson is wealthy enough that he can find or create his own work…
…where it hurts is in the up-n-comers. The entertainment industry is all about the networking. Reveal your views in that arena when you do not have a name and see how much your phone rings.
No one here wants to hear it…but how would you know if you have not experienced it?
Really.
Truth is…given a choice…a wife-beating, chain-smoking Marxist, truther like Penn will always have the advantage over even the most moderate right winger like Silver. Silver never became an extremist and as the above poster says…he always kept left-wing social views.
I am glad more and more people are discussing this and the fact that we are says much. To act as though there is parity in Hollywood between views is silly. Someone said leftists are called crazy too…not by the establishment they aren’t. And that’s what matters.
I was at a story meeting recently where the producer kept praising Hugo Chavez and Marxism and trashing Catholics.
What do you think I did…offer I polite retort?
Gibson is considered a nutbar and wackjob because of his political views? I thought that had more to do with his racist tirade.
Nicol, you are paranoid and delusional.
And the woman’s name is spelled “Janeane”.