It shows how out of it I was in trying to be in it, acknowledging that I was out of it to myself, and then thinking, “Okay, how do I stop being out of it? Well, I get some legitimate illogical narrative ideas” — some novel, you know?
So I decided on three writers that I might be able to option their material and get some producer, or myself as producer, and then get some writer to do a screenplay on it, and maybe make a movie.
And so the three projects were “Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep,” “Naked Lunch” and a collection of Bukowski. Which, in 1975, forget it — I mean, that was nuts. Hollywood would not touch any of that, but I was looking for something commercial, and I thought that all of these things were coming.
There would be no Blade Runner if there was no Ray Bradbury. I couldn’t find Philip K. Dick. His agent didn’t even know where he was. And so I gave up.
I was walking down the street and I ran into Bradbury — he directed a play that I was going to do as an actor, so we know each other, but he yelled “hi” — and I’d forgot who he was.
So at my girlfriend Barbara Hershey’s urging — I was with her at that moment — she said, “Talk to him! That guy really wants to talk to you,” and I said “No, fuck him,” and keep walking.
But then I did, and then I realized who it was, and I thought, “Wait, he’s in that realm, maybe he knows Philip K. Dick.” I said, “You know a guy named—” “Yeah, sure — you want his phone number?”
My friend paid my rent for a year while I wrote, because it turned out we couldn’t get a writer. My friends kept on me about, well, if you can’t get a writer, then you write.”
~ Hampton Fancher
“That was the most disappointing thing to me in how this thing was played. Is that I’m on the phone with you now, after all that’s been said, and the fundamental distinction between what James is dealing with in these other cases is not actually brought to the fore. The fundamental difference is that James Franco didn’t seek to use his position to have sex with anyone. There’s not a case of that. He wasn’t using his position or status to try to solicit a sexual favor from anyone. If he had — if that were what the accusation involved — the show would not have gone on. We would have folded up shop and we would have not completed the show. Because then it would have been the same as Harvey Weinstein, or Les Moonves, or any of these cases that are fundamental to this new paradigm. Did you not notice that? Why did you not notice that? Is that not something notable to say, journalistically? Because nobody could find the voice to say it. I’m not just being rhetorical. Why is it that you and the other critics, none of you could find the voice to say, “You know, it’s not this, it’s that”? Because — let me go on and speak further to this. If you go back to the L.A. Times piece, that’s what it lacked. That’s what they were not able to deliver. The one example in the five that involved an issue of a sexual act was between James and a woman he was dating, who he was not working with. There was no professional dynamic in any capacity.
~ David Simon
Well said Mr. Poland.
All this Dances/Samurai hating on AVATAR makes me wonder where all these type of discussions and comparisons to ALIEN NATION was when DISTRICT 9 opened.
I think AVATAR was great fun. I had no problem with any of the politics. I found it provocative, especially considering it is a) a Hollywood movie and b) it cost so damned much. In both cases, it is almost as explosive a text as Fight Club. And perhaps, because of the political undertow to the story, the film will play very, very well around the globe (figures show that it is already is already 67% foreign). It is not that the film is anti-American, or that audiences will run out of the theaters burning The Stars and Stripes, but they will like it because of its out-of-this-world visuals and out-of-the-blue politics.
Good argument with very detailed specific distinctions. Bravo. Now answer me this: what’s the fascination, in this movie and the Matrix sequels, with the big tribal rituals always involving a geometric formation of swaying, undulating bodies? That annoyed the hell out of me.
“Why Avatar Doesn
meant to say, dietcock, swaying is quite common to various forms of meditation and prayer in cultures the world over, i’m just guessing but i’d imagine that would be a likely origin of the swaying you mentioned
Dave, The first two points cleanly make the distinction.
Sully is just the latest incarnation of Cameron’s personal avatar, the Reese/Hicks grunt. Unlike Zwick and some others, Cameron most likely didn’t buy the “White Savior” angle because they’re aliens. It’s not like signing Worthington was a make or break for the film so if he it bothered him, he could have flipped casting on a dime.
What I find more interesting is how all the leads save Rodriguez, are white and how none of the lead Na’Vi, are. Zoe, Studi, Laz, Pounder. White Savior? No. More like white guilt.
I know that it irks people, diet, but what is church – any church – if not that?
Obviously, it is more Baptist than Presbyterian. But having spent years davening as a Jew, it was that sway and sense of unity that was most compelling about that experience.
Fortunately, none of the rabbis were in loincloths.
Diet…
I think I can name the exact visual reference Cameron’s making with the Na’vi ritual that takes place when they try to save Grace and again when they transfer Jake permanently. It’s Ron Fricke’s “Baraka.” There’s a hypnotic prayer segment in there, and it looks suspiciously like the ritual that Cameron’s Na’vi share at the base of the tree.
I may be wrong, but I’d be shocked if I am.
“What I find more interesting is how all the leads save Rodriguez, are white and how none of the lead Na’Vi, are.”
Cameron has mentioned in interviews how the three finalists to play Neytiri were Saldana, an Asian woman (my guess is Yunjin Kim from LOST, since she played Neytiri for the original screen test years ago), and a Caucasian woman. Doesn’t sound particularly like he was striving for any racial equation there.
Definitely Baraka.
Monkey chant: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkxuPxdsZ58&feature=related
Mr. Poland must be responding to the latest long-winded commentary on “Avatar”, spoilers and all.
except cameron hasn’t taken it from ‘baraka’, because the balinese kecek ritual is an actual ceremonial dance
Of course Jake saves the day. Neytiri only saves Jake. Jake assembles the clans and then Jake is the one who prays to the planet and gets the animals sent to win the battle. Without Jake the Na’vi would have been obliterated.
Honestly, a lot of the stuff you point out as examples of why this isn’t ‘white guy saving the minorities’ are just examples of a poorly told story with undercooked thematic elements.
1) There’s no triangle – Jake is helping the military for quite some time, totally selling out the Na’vi.
2) Jake’s not a recovering asshole because either a) he has little to no personality or b) he’s just an asshole. This depends on how you read all his dipshitty frat boy dialogue when he first hits the jungle.
3) I guess? I don’t fully know what this has to do with the white guy saving the minorities thing. It is worth noting that there is no spiritual side to it all in the end, the planet’s neural network is explained in scientific and quite non-theological terms. It makes the Na’vi look even more primitive – they live on a big network drive and they pray to it like it’s god.
4) I think this is just simply a bit of bad storytelling. Jake doesn’t do much of note to get accepted into the Na’vi, either. That said, he is ‘chosen’ by the puffballs.
5) True. I’m sure he’ll get all Mau’dib again in the sequel, but that has no bearing on this.
6) Again, Quaritch isn’t the villain. The corporation is, and it’s vanquished by the combined tribes and by the animals, both of which come from Jake, as does the plan of attack, if I’m not misremembering (I could be).
7) It’s not religious faith. It’s scientfically (fictionalized) biology. And I don’t know what this has to do with him being the guy who totally saved the day as I explained previously.
8) I think the film thinks it’s about balance. But everything is about domination, from how the dragons are tamed to how the Na’vi drive the humans from the moon. AVATAR is essentially a riff on DUNE, and I would say that DUNE is more realistically about balance, as at least Mua’dib marries the Emperor’s daughter at the end and creates a balance between Arrakis and the Empire. There’s no such ending here – the humans are just exiled, and there’s no political solution at all. This is because Cameron has defaulted to one dimensional, drama-free tropes to tell his story – a better tale might have ended with Ribisi’s character out of control and someone with more understanding of the Na’vi stepping up and creating an era of interspecies cooperation, of which Jake’s half and half body would be the personification.
Leah, relax. I know it’s an actual ritual, but even the visual vocabulary of how Cameron shoots the Na’vi ritual is eerily reminiscent of “Baraka.”
It’s okay. It doesn’t diminish Cameron at all if he happens to like the great Ron Fricke and if there are some echoes from the amazing “Baraka” in a couple of minutes of his movie.
“because the balinese kecek ritual is an actual ceremonial dance”
So? I don’t see how that means it couldn’t have served as a visual point of inspiration.
I’d say that Cameron made a lot of choices (which DP listed) that serve to lessen the impact of the choices that he made, give the movie a soft thematic landing, help the audience swallow it all a lot more easily. The point remains, however, that it’s still a movie about a guy from a White/technological/dominant culture who rescues a primitive (dare I say, ‘backwards’?) culture by magically perfoming feats that none of the rest of the Na’Vi are able to do, plus his arrival is ‘heralded’ by those flying jellyfish and that’s why Neytiri doesn’t kill him immediately – he’s the chosen one, and all that jazz.
Devin, re: “It’s not religious faith. It’s scientfically (fictionalized) biology” I think it makes more sense to say that it actually is religious faith, which Cameron is attempting to rationalize by justify by explaining in scientific terms. But strip that veneer away and it’s your garden-variety New Age/shamanism.
I agree that the movie isn’t about ‘balance’ either. If it was, the movie would have ended with the Na’Vi and humans finding some way to coexist in a mutually beneficial relationship, like Devin said.
i’m perfectly relaxed, drew
and what a load of tripe from devin:
“Honestly, a lot of the stuff you point out as examples of why this isn’t ‘white guy saving the minorities’ are just examples of a poorly told story with undercooked thematic elements.”
says you. here’s a thought: not everyone interprets things the same way you do.
“dipshitty frat boy dialogue”
jake talks like a jarhead, not a frat-boy
“the white guy saving the minorities thing”
minorities? in what way are the navi ‘minorities’?
“I think this is just simply a bit of bad storytelling. Jake doesn’t do much of note to get accepted into the Na’vi, either. That said, he is ‘chosen’ by the puffballs.”
wrong. the ‘puffballs’ as you put it are CRUCIAL, spores from the sacred tree that intuit jake’s presence on the planet is very, very important to the survival of the natural world of pandora, which is THE reason the navi accept jake. you don’t like that concept because you’re an insufferable grumpass? fine, but don’t minimise it just because you feel like it
“I think the film thinks it’s about balance”
films don’t think.
“But everything is about domination, from how the dragons are tamed to how the Na’vi drive the humans from the moon.”
EVERYTHING is about domination? you’ve named two examples of domination, one of which is dodgy (the dragons are NOT dominated, the dragons choose their navi and the navi and dragons merge consciousness. did you actually watch the movie or just sit there with a cynical smirk on your face and a razor blade in one hand?)
“There’s no such ending here – the humans are just exiled, and there’s no political solution at all.”
who said there has to be a political solution? because you expect one? the invader is vanquished (for the time being). babye!
“a better tale might have ended with Ribisi’s character out of control and someone with more understanding of the Na’vi stepping up and creating an era of interspecies cooperation, of which Jake’s half and half body would be the personification”
lol, what a load of pretentious crap. a better tale might have ended that way? says who, you? so it would be more like ‘dune’? why should there be interspecies cooperation, is there an edict somewhere i’m unaware of? when you make a movie you can end it any way you like. good luck with that
man, i’m sick of pretentious pricks
“films don’t think.”
Some do, some don’t.
“So? I don’t see how that means it couldn’t have served as a visual point of inspiration.”
jesus, jeff, that’s what i was saying, that the actual dance is the inspiration, not ‘baraka’
a film is an inanimate object incapable of thought
I thought that Eywa orchestrated Sully’s arrival on planet (actually ‘orchestrated’ isn’t the right word–not in a direct, active way but in a ‘balancing the force’ way). It seemed to me that the avatars would be obvious to Eywa as they contained human DNA. In order to restore the balance after the incursions of the humans, it ‘happened’ that an avatar with military training (rather than a scientist) arrived on Pandora and was beguiled by the planet and the Na’vi. Without Sully’s knowledge of technological war, the Na’vi would not have been able to drive away the humans.
So balance is restored, even though the great Hometree was sacrificed.
In short, the ‘native soul’ herself chose the ‘human’ leader, rather than the ‘white man’ imposing himself on their society.
David, I also believed that when the giant banshee left at the end, Jake was giving up ‘leadership’ of the Na’vi, but according to wikipedia that is not the case?
And people call _me_ overly literal.
Okay, Leah. James Cameron, as writer/producer/director, was thinking hard about what he wanted to do in this film. I think you could agree with that? And it’s likely that Cameron thought the film was about balance (which a bunch of people have commented on here) and I and Devin respectfully disagree.
Thanks very much – I followed a link here from Twitter to see some positivity about the film. I’ve only seen it once so I haven’t been in a frame of mind to do any analyzing yet, and I may not want to. But I appreciate so much that you point out quite succinctly why Avatar doesn’t fall into the trap in your blog title.
The thing about the Jake Sully character which was so important to me, is that we experience what he does, with him. We are also “like a baby”, who grow as he grows, who learn as he learns, and thereby can exult more fully in the immersive “spirit” if you will, of the film. I am the first person who would have noticed if the film was headed in the direction of “the paternalistic white man teaches the blue aliens a thing or two” mode. It never did.
hey, i can nitpick with the best of them, jeff
i mean, the movie should end with inter-species co-operation? what the hell? why should the navi accept an alien horde who wants to mine their planet? get the fuck off our patch, greed-driven industrialised invaders, piss off! hell yes
Devin – Sorry you hate the movie, but your arguments kinda supersede any argument I would make in return. You’re committed to hating it… and that’s cool.
If the transfer of a soul from one body to another is “not religious faith. It’s scientifically (fictionalized) biology,” then you are experiencing a very different movie than I am. And there is no discussion at that point.
Avatar is a movie that is wide open to nitpicks, but it’s the kind of movie whose general good will can carry you beyond them. I spent moments on the edge of my seat not because I thought something bad was going to happen to the characters but because I thought the film would finally tumble over the ‘stupid’ line on which it had been treading. Thankfully Cameron takes the movie home without ever quite crossing that line. He also blows your mind with the most intense visual experience ever offered in a cinema, going back to when people ducked because the guy fired a gun at them.
Scientifically fictionalized biology bless you.
Anyone who bites on Sherlock and bites at Avatar is never going to agree with me on either.
And Chucky… no… not responding to any one thing… mostly responding to getting this kind of feedback from one of my friends… the piece has been sitting on my desktop for 2 days, unfinished until I decided to simplify it this afternoon.
That’s okay, Leah…but I think Cameron could have made a better movie than “Fuck you, outsiders!” I guess that’s why it’s called ‘fantasy’.
DP: If your davening was like the Avatar/Matrix orgy ritual sequences I was referring to, then I have to ask if your reform temple, by any chance, was located in the basement of Plato’s Retreat?
Moriarty: I agree that the scene in question is pure Baraka (or any other National Geographic type ethnography, for that matter).
I think my problem — and I didn’t articulate it well in my first response — is how Matrix/Avatar (and G-d knows how many other future and/or post-apocalyptic set films: Solider, The Postman, Waterworld, etc. etc.) always arbitrarily adopt this same tired “tribal” trope and always do it in the most inane way possible. IN THE FUTURE THERE WILL BE COUNCILS, GATHERED AROUND A FIRE, AND THE PEOPLE WILL HEED THE WORD OF THE COUNCIL ELDERS AND THE ELDERS WILL ALL SPEAK IN STILTED DIALECT (Usually dialogue, syntax-wise, like: “Beast with five fingers doth speak the truth!”). It’s particulary galling in the cases of Matrix and Avatar, as those movies are so forward-thinking in almost every other way and the filmmakers, for the most part, took great care to avoid clich
I recall Jake very specifically giving up leadership of the tribe to his romantic rival, and offering to serve him. Though logistically, if he marries the heir to the chief, this may have to pan out differently down the line.
interesting insights in your comment above, dietcock
Sounds like you have not had many happy religious experiences, diet.
The davening was orthodox and like I said, no loincloths, but a hundred or more men in a room, chanting in rhythm can be pretty intense.
And Matrix is intensely about religion. All three films. It is The Wachowskis’ ultimate belief in eastern religion that destroyed the third film for many people.
Faith can be personal. But it can also be shared in groups. And the idea of groupthink and connectedness in those situations certainly chafes against an individuated society of the now. And though I probably lean closer to your personal take on religion than not, I have a hard time saying, “Those moron monks… fuck Tibet… they are being OCD, self-destructive idiots… and this crap about the Lama being reborn… nuts!!!… they should just get a big house somewhere where they can be comfortable and keep to themselves because if I were the Chinese government, I’d wanna kill ’em too, if just to shut them up already.”
That is what you are saying, kinda… right?
And the funny thing about a movie like Zulu is that what’s wrong with it is not the depiction of Africans, but the context that mostly saw them as a wall of savages. As was a problem for a remake of The Four Feathers, killing The Wogs is no longer acceptable as entertainment. What we think of as third world cultures in America are what they are. The notion that they are 3rd and we are 1st because of cable TV and viagra is what’s f-ed up.
DP: I only saw LAST AMURAI once, but IIRC, I thought that KW’s character was the “last” Samurai of the title.
I don’t think Cameron ever said he was out to change how ‘native peoples’ are portrayed in SF/Fantasy films. He did however list some classic stories as his inspirations: John Carter of Mars, etc. Hence the tribal trope dc mentions?
Telemachos’s is correct:
From an LA Times interview with casting director Margey Simkin:
“>http://tinyurl.com/y8txxue
YV: And what was it like to not have any restrictions, as far as
casting the Na
DP: I think you misjudge my intent (probably my fault for not being clear enough in my writing). My problem is not with religion at all and I totally respect the sanctity of religious ritual. And the Eastern theology of the Matrix sequels aren’t problematic for me, either. I’m talking about CINEMATIC DEPICTIONS of religious/tribal culture. I have a hard time reconciling how the Wachowskis could simultaneously be so utterly brilliant and original in the way they depicted an Oracle and so bone-headed and unimaginative in their depiction of Zion. And I think Cameron, for all the attention he paid to having all the tech stuff look like nothing we’ve ever seen before (think about the opening shot with Worthington coming out of the sleep chamber, for instance) and his exacting detail in terms of creating an entire believable planetary environment from scratch (albeit inspired by old prog-rock album covers), resorted to Screenwriting 101 and a diet of old movie clich
James Cameron has followed great with good.
Which is fine. Good is fine.
But when good is aiming for great, it can look a little silly. Especially when it’s following a big Oscar win, it’s three hours long and it takes itself more serious than it should.
Just ask King Kong director Peter Jackson.
The comparisons there are on the nose.
“…the most intense visual experience ever offered in a cinema…”
Dave, I kinda think that’s crossing the “stupid line.” The main reason I didn’t like the movie was because I was visually underwhelmed.
I will say that the tribal rave dance was my least favorite moment in the film, as it was that MATRIX sequel.
But boy, Zoe Saldana sold me on her character.
If you were visually underwhelmed by “Avatar,” you went into the screening ready to be underwhelmed and refusing to give yourself over to the film. Although I had issues with the story and it’s adherence to the other films it’s soooo much like, I caught myself becoming totally lost in the films visuals at least 5 different times.
Or, you saw it on a computer screen while Led Zep blasted in the background and you updated twitter and facebook.
Sort of off topic but strangely parallel, the travel channel has a fascinating series where they bring five natives from Vanuatu (south Pacific) to America. They have been been given a mission by their chief to find a semi-mythical navy officer who, in their view, brought peace to the island in WW2. Really, one of the finest documentary series I’ve ever seen on tv, very moving but also very disturbing.
On the contrary Don, I went into Avatar ready to defend it against people who were saying the visuals couldn’t save it from the plot. (Besides, I don’t listen to Zep, use Twitter or Facebook.)
I remember seeing U2-3D screened 2 years ago, and within the first 30 seconds thinking to myself: This is the future of movies. However, midway through Avatar, I thought: There is no reason for this to have been made in 3D.
Avatar is the third digital 3D movie I’ve seen, and I can safely say it was the least interesting use of 3D. I’m not the only person who’s pointed out the flatness of the imagery — I even talked to a neighbor today who was a fan of Beowulf, but found Avatar’s 3D flat. That was Cameron’s choice — to limit the stereoscopic effect.
Then, on top of that, I generally wasn’t into the whole phosphorescent jungle thing. Just wasn’t interesting to me. Looked like a live-action Disney cartoon.
One of my geek friends told me he didn’t think he was going to watch AVATAR first on the download. I told him, “Well no shit you fucking nerd.”
Dave, ignoring the weird quoting my SHERLOCK HOLMES review back to me thing (you’re surely not saying that because one film worked marginally better for me than another that I have no credibility on my critiques, are you?), the ‘soul’ transfer IS science. The humans do it using a machine again and again in the movie – the tree just does it permanently. The idea of downloading your consciousness into a computer or other new brain is a fairly standard scifi trope. It’s obviously filtered in the film through a semi-mystical screen, but Cameron is unwilling to go full on religious and hedges his bets with a planet that’s a computer system.
As for my other points – whether or not I liked the movie, it’s kind of impossible to deny that Jake is the guy who brings the tribes together AND the guy whose prayers are answered at the end. A reading of the movie where Quaritch is THE villain is a skewed reading of the movie. Neytiri saves Jake, but long after Jake, the white technologically advanced outsider, has saved the Na’vi.
So Everytime they went to cast a Na’Vi, it just happened to be a person of color was best suited. And everytime they went to cast a scientist or plunderer, it just happened to be a white person. And the only time you see a non-white human, it’s in a bit role with only Rodriguez in support. And that’s being color-blind.
Lucas did the same thing in Menace but made his aliens the jesters and bad guys while Cameron’s aliens are exalted. One is stereotyping through ignorance and the other is stereotyping through white guilt, but the utilization is still identical.
Neytiri saved Jake from the viperwolves. Jake doesn’t accomplish anything without first getting help and guidance from the Na’vi.
And because I perhaps did not make this clear enough before, I want to drive home the point that some of the people saying Avatar is racist are the same ones saying Pandora can’t have balance without humans, that the story was not about balance because the alien imperialists were told to go home.
Devin – but Cameron is unwilling to go full on religious and hedges his bets with a planet that’s a computer system
Aw, crap. Cameron ripped off The Apple?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Apple_%28TOS_episode%29
Didn’t he learn from swiping Outer Limits?
Jamie/mutiny-
wow, I’m surprised you didn’t dig it. I do kind of agree it didn’t *need* to be in 3D. I just got sucked in more than I thought I would and I had read NOTHING about it going in aside from the hyperbole sentences that I couldn’t avoid in time.
However the fact you don’t listen to Zep is inexcusable!
Oh, I like Zep. Couldn’t tell you the last time I listened, though.
“I even find a movie like Precious, which is not racist in and of itself, problematic. To my eye, it brings out a pity response in many white viewers that I find inappropriately paternalistic.”
I can understand this, to a degree, my reaction to Precious was, “thank God I’m not poor and living in NYC.” and somewhat related to blackness, but more so related to poverty, which is something I understand from my own upbringing.
But my reaction to A Serious Man was much more, “thank God I’m not a Jew!” so to a degree, I sort of find that film inappropriately paternalistic in the same vein. And in a way that I don’t ever find Woody Allen films paternalistic, despite virtually all of them being about the absurdly high amount of self-loathing Jews apparently carry around. Just thought I’d throw that out there, that this goy’s primary reaction to A Serious Man was one of pity (and a little bit of disgust at just how ‘ugly’ in character (and somewhat in appearance) everyone was, from the Korean’s to his wife, and every other person in his family, the ineffectual self-absorbed rabbis, to the guy cuckolding him, and somewhat to himself as well… Unlike Precious there’s not a single redemptive quality or person existing in the microcosm of Jewish small town American community. For all that Precious’ life was shit, she herself was above that, and she found a way out of her misery. Serious Man seems to suggest that you can have your shit and eat it to, but you can’t ever get away from shit, or even understand why you’re being shit on. Yeah, it was a miserable, unfunny movie to watch, and my westside audience primarily seemed to enjoy Hebrew School injokes more than anything.
I don’t see Avatar as a “white guy saves the natives” movie because a) the Na’Vi are the majority and they’re the “white” people of their land, and b) they don’t know Jake is white. Besides, if I was one of the minority Na’Vi and had access to someone who knows how to defeat the people taking over my land, I’d wanna use him.
Quaritch’s awesome demise scene should leave no doubt as to who the real victors are in AVATAR.
I feel like the “white guilt” reading of the film is its own form of paternalism. The only cries of stereotyping I hear or read come from . . . white people!
@Martin: The main guy in the lab wasn’t white. Not sure what his ethnicity was.
Why is it science fiction-y biology when it’s transferring a consciousness from one body to another, but it’s praying when Jake is saving the Na’vi? By the non-spiritual logic, isn’t he just pointing out to the neural-networked computer planet that the humans’ military tech is going to overwhelm the Na’vi defense?
Yes! It is the planet that saves itself by looking into Sigourney’s memories and seeing what level of threat the humans will bring and how much of the natural fauna to send at the humans. The Jake-led Na’vi are actually losing the battle until the planet sends in the troops.
ManWithNoName – the guy is Indian. It’s a supporting role which was my point. For humans, bits and support are of color, none of the leads. For Na’Vi, actors of color are all the leads.
This is supposed to be the future, right? What happened to the billion+ Asians inhabiting the world now? The Chinese govt have been strip-mining Africa for most of the decade, but they’re non-existent. India has some of the worst enviro pollution you will ever see but apparently, they don’t make it off the rock.
White people, full-on Euro ancestry whiteys that Cameron cast as his leads, are minuscule today. So why would he cast this way? Because he’s indicting colonial imperialism in the context of the future. It’s pure white guilt, but that should be expected since the industry has traded on that rationale for decades. With the money and time he had on this project, it’s deliberate. That’s why I don’t see Sully as a White Savior. It flies in the face of the apology.
Religion was originally based on biology and was our attempt to understand the world at large. It eventually turned into the method the rich and powerful used to stay rich and powerful ironically enough by keeping ignorance strong.
On Pandora, religion returns to its biological “roots”
Great piece. Wonderful discussion.
I completely disagree with the majority. Suprisingly i agree with devin. Its suprising because i think hes a grade a douche. But i find his take pretty much spot on. This is zwick in a prettier package.
There is one other non white human. The avatar scientist who stays behind ‘because they need someone on the inside.’
I pretty much agree with David on everything. Nothing I can really add except how much more badass Quatrich could have been if Cameron had cast Wes Studi in that role instead of Lang. Lang could’ve voiced Eytukan in his sleep. But think about it, man. A bulked-up, scar faced, Native American delivering all manner of technological whoop-ass on the Na’vi would have been even more interesting.
Maybe if the humans had given the Na’ive a bunch of cans of cat food they could’ve made peace…
Great post Poland. For me, a significant way Cameron avoided the cliched “white guy supercedes the natives” storyline was by creating an alternate reality on Pandora where the Na’vi are, as a scientific matter, connected to the land in less subtle ways than humans on earth. The humans in Avatar didn’t understand Pandora’s science. On its face, Avatar is not a story about Western humans oppressing non-Western humans who deify nature. It is not merely a cultural clash. It is not anti-modern and nostalgic as was The Last Samurai. If Avatar provokes thought about environmental issues on earth, that’s wonderful. But the differences between Pandora and earth were great enough that I didn’t feel bopped over the head by a movie maker’s ideology.
How substantially different would the film have been if Cameron had made up a new race to stand in for humans as well, with no mention of earth of all, just two different completly alien civilizations meeting? Do you think the people who dislike the movie for ‘white guilt’ ‘anti-human’ reasons would like it more? Do you think fans of the film would have liked it less without a human hero?
And besides Star Wars (and if I remember correctly Dune) is there any other sci-fi films that have no relationship at all to Earth?
hcat, I’m pretty sure an argument can be made that Transformers has no relationship to Earth…
“Of course Jake saves the day. Neytiri only saves Jake. Jake assembles the clans and then Jake is the one who prays to the planet and gets the animals sent to win the battle. Without Jake the Na’vi would have been obliterated”
You can’t say that for sure. You don’t know that his prayer was the reason – that is how you see it but it wasn’t how I saw it. When anyone prays and those prayers are answered one can’t say for sure that God did it; they assume so, but it could just as easily have been the planet protecting itself.
“(you’re surely not saying that because one film worked marginally better for me than another that I have no credibility on my critiques, are you?)”
Yeah, kinda. True, isn’t it?
“As for my other points – whether or not I liked the movie, it’s kind of impossible to deny that Jake is the guy who brings the tribes together AND the guy whose prayers are answered at the end.”
It isn’t impossible at all. The Na’Vi don’t know what Jake knows. He screws things up for them and then he fixes things, that’s how he sees it. It isn’t white man rescues natives; it’s enemy becomes friend and helps fight real enemy.
There are also a few Asians in the scientist’s labs, so it’s a pretty multi-cultural crew there.
And Michelle Rodriguez.
Sasha, REALLY? You watch a movie where the god is not just accepted as real but explained through science, see the hero pray to this god for help, have the planet’s previously hostile species show up to assist the heroes, have everybody say the planet helped and then say ‘Maybe it wasn’t related’?
Come on. The whole damn point of the ending is that it was related. This is going to be the new movie where people bend over backwards to make excuses and ignore the blatant text of the film, huh?
The strange thing about your/Poland’s defense – to me – is he’s saying it’s not a direct 1 on 1 to other movies about this subject. That doesn’t mean the things Devin said aren’t on the nose to what happens in the film, but it’s not The Last Na’vi, or whatever cute thing, etc. Jake comes to the village and fucks the alpha girl, and leads the tribes against the Earthlings, and is probably the new king at the end. I’m pretty sure all that happened in the film.
As per #7, that’s the weirdest/most interesting part about the movie, but it doesn’t deny white guilt, etc. I was thinking about what it says that Jake would rather be a Blue Cat, and that’s sort of the fantasy of some of these movies, where you want to be an elf or something, but but in the superhero lexicon, you’re usually yourself, just with additional whatever. To me the comparison point is INGLOURIOUS BASTERDS in that plenty of people have fantasized about killing Hitler, but here that’s made a part of the story. But Tarantino uses our awareness of history to heighten the fantasy. Jake discards his body to become other, which is antithetical to human existance (excepting Michael Jackson). Even there, Michael Jackson was not accepted as necessarily white, nor are the transgendered (by the very label) removed from their past life.
Mutiny – I must not have been clear, or perhaps your talking about the 80’s cartoon film, but Transformers took place on earth, complete with earthlings and whatever Megan Fox is. But stories taken place in seperate universes where Earth is never acknowledged to exist.
hcat, you were perfectly clear. I was making a joke. You know, suggesting that there’s nothing in Transformers that actually resembles the real Earth.
Oy. Why am I explaining this?
I was bothered by the sort of Tarzanesque nature of te film. I didn’t find it offensive like Phantom Menace but it was noticiable and another down tick for me on the film.
I think Jake’s English imperial makes the point more jarring. It never lets you forget how different he is. What is it like 3 months into training and he’s basically the #2 guy below the thrown? At least it plays that way.
Part of the problem is that there’s nothing in the story to substantiate why all the Jake love. He’s got the dandelion seeds falling all over him, the Tree Mother listens to HIS prayers, animals come bowing down to him, the princess heir makes love to him, all because why…? He’s the chosen one, I guess. Jake’s bro was supposedly the genius. Do we see he’s like top of his class as a marine? Do we have any indication this guy apart from bravery, I’ll even say exceptional bravery was to other wise rise up above the crowd?
It doesn’t help that when Sigourney Weaver’s character shows up as an avatar later on in the movie the native kids all clamour around her, touching her hair like they’re so fascinated by her being different, yet, isn’t she supposed to be just like them???
To me it was just one more thing story element played out in other films of the past that was hardly dressed up to show any originality.
Some of those are easier to answer than others, Triple.
Mainly, he’s a big deal as an Avatar because he’s the first one to do it who’s actually combat trained, a warrior who earns their respect that way. Would he rise above the crowd in a human classroom? Probably not, but the combination of human warrior knowledge plus the enhancement of an avatar body is a first in this reality. Doubtless others COULD be better at it down the line…but he’s the first. I think it’s fair to say that the planet’s neural net (Eywa) notices this, too.
Weaver’s avatar is revered by the kids because she’s already a known quantity, a well-liked teacher who has been the first to have any diplomatic success, teaching them English and the like. Plus there is still a bit of awe for the Na’vi surrounding the whole process…they call them dreamwalkers, or something like that, and the more superstitous think it’s demon-possession.
But yes, it is Tarzan-esque.
re: why jake is ‘special’, i was talking to my boy about the movie (which surprisingly he found a bit disturbing in places) and the whole ‘chosen one’ scenario common to many movies he’s grown up with, and his assumption was this:
that avatar jake is special because in real life jake is a paraplegic, stuck in a wheelchair, quite sad and withdrawn, very limited in his abilities, but when he becomes avatar jake he is whole again and he just explodes with joy, you can feel it, his freedom, wonder, unadulterated exultation/appreciation for the just ability to walk let alone run, leap (and fly) in such a beautiful and amazing place, and that’s what makes avatar jake unique, and why the spores are drawn to him and why neytiri loves him (she says he has a strong heart but she doesn’t realise why), basically because avatar jake is the happiest, eagerest camper in the history of campers — translated from extended boy babble/slang
That’s a smart boy.
what about neytiri’s poor fiance’? this Jake character strolls in there, takes his girl, whoops his butt in front of his girl, then becomes his leader. And then he dies in battle while Jake is set live happily ever after with neytiri?. most put upon character and most humiliated in film history.
saying that i loved the film and whatever u think politically or whatever i will still be recomending the ish but yeah, it is Tarzan In Space.
“most humiliated in film history.”
I dunno, I think Jim Caviezel in Passion of the Christ takes that trophy.
Granted, he does get to resurrect. But via Eywa, so does Neytiri’s ex.
“This is supposed to be the future, right? What happened to the billion+ Asians inhabiting the world now?”
Where were all these people when I was battling against Star Trek and it’s strange futuristic world in which not only are there only one token characters of each race on the ship, but that they still don’t get to do anything of any real effect. The only female officer only gets onto the ship because she sleeps with Spock and then she’s shafted half the movie. And then there’s the fact that “Don’t Ask Don’t Tell” is still very much in force (apparently). THAT’S PROGRESS!
And to whoever it was who suggested Wes Studi should have been cast as Stephen Lang’s part. Well, then all the naysayers would be calling him racist for other reasons.
This is all making me think of two things:
Star Trek, which was, from its inception, a liberal/humanist/progressive vision of humanity with a lot of pretty explicit metaphors about ’60s (and in the later series, ’80s/’90s) society, is now in the Abrams version barely political at all and altered into something that is much more purely fantasy, which is why nobody probably cared what race any of the characters were.
And since District 9 is out on video, it reminds me that it and Avatar are basically the same movie, except that I like D9 about a thousand times better.
“And then there’s the fact that “Don’t Ask Don’t Tell” is still very much in force (apparently).”
Do tell. Which Star Trek characters are you thinking of as closet-cases? Tyler Perry?