Blood Libel aka Too Stupid/Too Arrogant/Too Dangerous
From Wikipedia – Blood libel (also blood accusation) refers to a false accusation or claim that religious minorities, in European contexts almost always Jews, murder children to use their blood in certain aspects of their religious rituals and holidays. Historically, these claims have–alongside those of well poisoning and host desecration–been a major theme in European persecution of Jews.
The libels typically allege that Jews require human blood for the baking of matzos for Passover. The accusations often assert that the blood of Christian children is especially coveted, and historically blood libel claims have often been made to account for otherwise unexplained deaths of children. In some cases, the alleged victim of human sacrifice has become venerated as a martyr, a holy figure around whom a martyr cult might arise. A few of these have been even canonized as saints, like Gavriil Belostoksky.
In Jewish lore, blood libels were the impetus for the creation in the 16th century of the Golem of Prague by Rabbi Judah Loew ben Bezalel. Many popes have either directly or indirectly condemned the blood accusation, and no pope has ever sanctioned it.These libels have persisted among some segments of Christians to the present time.
You know, this is the game that is the problem. It’s not arguing over ideas. It’s the willingness to twist any fact to one’s advantage at any time. Now Sarah Palin will be defended for days because the liberal media is too picky, parsing her words. For days now, the liberal media has been guilty of being too worried about the big picture, not focusing enough on the detail. (As in, “There was no picture of Rep Giffords with a gun sight on it!!! How dare they accuse Palin of being guilty of using violent imagery!”
On the local right wing radio station here in LA, they are still running promos for one of their on-air personalities that talks about Obama ruining the country, that we need to fight to take back America, and how it’s almost too late. Serious end of days pitch, politically, not religiously. It’s a direct call to action and sounds exactly like a call for people to picket abortion clinics… the logical result of which has been the murder of doctors who perform the procedure. After all, if you really believe he’s a baby killer, he is a mass murderer, and killing one to save many is a natural outgrowth of the argument.
I understand feeling attacked and the relief that this lunatic in AZ wasn’t a Palin or McCain fanatic, but do they really have to be so busy defending themselves that they can’t see how the behavior means something, even if there is no direct cause and effect.
As for the Palin specifically, this is all like movie advertising… the audience will decide for itself. The media, left and right, is not what will define the ongoing future of this game show host of a politician. Will it be Dukakis in that tank, which turned off even liberals? We’ll see.
But there is a sickness when the argument over the rhetoric turns the rhetoric even uglier. It’s like the kids fighting about the will over their dying parent’s hospital bed, so enthusiastic in their selfishness that they don’t notice as they knock out the IV with one swing of the arm and the oxygen with the next.
blood: the fluid that circulates in the heart, arteries, capillaries, and veins of a vertebrate animal carrying nourishment and oxygen to and bringing away waste products from all parts of the body
libel: a written or oral defamatory statement or representation that conveys an unjustly unfavorable impression
I’m no Palin fan, but before anyone had any facts about Loughner, they did have this map, therefore Palin was indirectly responsible for this nut killing six people on Saturday, right? Then as actual facts started coming out, they backed away from that, but they accused Palin of hiding. Sure Loughner’s had a beef with Giffords since before anyone had heard of Palin, but it’s somehow Palin’s fault; it must be! Yesterday on MSNBC’s Chris Matthews, his bottom-screen graphic for Palin was “on the lam”, which usually is a phrase for a criminal eluding justice.
Palin finally makes a statement, but they only see two words: blood libel. As Alan Dershowitz pointed out, “blood libel” is being used more and more with broader definitions. “So busy defending themselves?” I assume you’re referring beyond Palin, as all she’s done right now is one email to Glenn Beck and one statement.
I’ve learned a heck of a lot more about Sarah Palin and the people who love her and the people who hate her than I have about, say, the four people who were killed who were not 9 years old or a federal judge. I would love to go two days without seeing or hearing Sarah Palin’s name, but that’s not going to happen until 2013 or until I quit my job and move into a cave.
Yes, political rhetoric needs to be calmed down. I would love Limbaugh and Maher and Hannity and Huffington and Levin and Olbermann and Savage and Kos to be more responsible with how they stir up anger for ratings or mouse-clicks. Pres. Obama and Rep. Boehner, and huh, the politicians, for the most part have been very good about this. The media’s been awful.
The media does nothing but talk about the media. They tell a story then spend ten times the effort analyzing the reaction to the story.
Ted williams, the homeless voice guy is a prime example.
Story: homeless guy has great voice, gets second chance
Great story.
Then they drag out his insane cunt of a mother
Then they drag out his kids
Then the interviewers question what sudden fame will do
Then hes on Dr Phil
Then the talking heads debate the overexposure
This case takes different turns, but it ends up at the same destination. The shooter was mentally ill. Rather than focus on the prevelant number of mentally ill people not getting help or assault weapon bans, we talk about palin or beck. Then we talk about those who talk about palin or beck. The story devolves into being about the largess of the story and those talking about it rather than the actual details of the story itself
The media is the enemy.
Reminds me of the “porch monkey” argument in CLERKS 2.
But seriously…
I’m following all this stuff and am happy to see libs and intelligent people pissed (finally) at the hate rhetoric that’s been flying around way too much since the election and the election of “the other.” But honestly, I don’t see how anything will change unless it just gets worse. Throwing around “blood libel” is a good example.
But the righties and specifically the Tea Party candidates have made it clear they pride themselves on being uneducated and of the people. They feel libs and dems are too sensitive, too PC. All this hate speech and allusions to violence are WHAT THEY DO. Then liberals cry and whine like the kid at school who’s parents told him to not fight back when bullied but go tell the teacher.
What’s it going to take to make a change? Someone finally got killed. All I hear is more bitching about each side from the other. All this latest uproar is doing is amplifying the mouthpieces on both sides. Bill Maher was GREAT on Leno last night, he spelled it out nice and clear. Will it change anyones mind?
I do think this all (the crosshair callout, Palin’s excuses, the blood libel statement) will thankfully doom Palin. So I guess that’s what will come out of this. Too bad people had to die to get us there.
Is this still Movie City News or should I rename my bookmark?
You shouldn’t read threads that don’t interest you, champ. There’s plenty of film related threads on here. And this is about media, as Anghus said.
The “lamestream media” (her words), which jammed Rev. Wright down our throats 24/7 for months, made virtually no use or even mention of the extant videotape that shows her seated in church while her pastor declaims that “the Jews should be driven out of the banking business.” Obama was forced to renounce his priest for remarks that were taken wildly out of context; Palin faced no such criticism for far worse and has gotten off scott-free. The only thing in her favor on this particular issue is that she’s too fricking ignorant to have realized how offensive that term is in this instance.
1.7% of the US population*
American Holocaust*
controlled media*
Blood Libel
in the excerpt of Palin’s video they played this morning on NPR she sounded downright presidential. It sounded as though she seized permanent control of the narrative with the tone she used and the words she said–it’s likely that rather than permanently derailing her presidential ambitions, everything relating to the assassination attempt will bounce off her because she handled it so well.
It’s downright sickening to see her playing her cards exactly right, few human beings terrify me as much as she and her ambitions do.
Meanwhile Obama remains mum, lovely.
“in the excerpt of Palin’s video they played this morning on NPR she sounded downright presidential.”
If you’re deaf and daydreaming.
If it weren’t for die-hard liberals, I might have forgotten all about Sarah Palin by now. She’s an idiot, we get it, move on. Her choice to do that ridiculous show further cemented her inability to become our next President. Why continue discussing her? I think people just get off on having someone to mock and insult, and the extreme left needed someone to fill the void left by Bush’s departure from office. It’s pathetic how quickly these victims have been dismissed as people clamor to pin it on Palin.
Think back to how much Bush-bashing had become an acceptable form of entertainment on the news, the talk shows, etc. If some nutjob had decided to assassinate him, do you think the (largely liberal) media would have pointed the finger at themselves, jumped all over the late night comedians who hated Bush, and so on?
I didn’t even like Bush, and I think Palin was worthwhile for the length of her first major speech. So don’t assume that I’m just some conservative who despises leftist politics. I don’t really align myself one way or the other, because people on both sides make me so incredibly sick, from the instant idolatry of Obama to the zealotry of pro-life activists. I’m pro-choice and pro-death penalty, for what it’s worth. I shouldn’t even be making this post, because political debate is about as useful in my opinion as an Intro to Philosophy course at the local junior college, but there you have it. Feel free to hurl your insults or dismantle any points I’ve made, but know that I won’t post in anymore political threads on this website. In other words, don’t feel slighted if you address my concerns and I choose not to reply. Thanks for reading.
Damn, had to edit this. I meant that I’m pro-choice.
another thing that just annoyed me more, and just more of the ample evidence of the thorough and complete control conservatives have over all political narratives in the united states is all the headlines, including the new york times and elsewhere, screaming about the so called 66% tax increase in Illinois.
If you interviewed a thousand people and asked them what a 66% tax increase means, 999 of them would say it means income taxes go up to 66%. None of them would guess it means taxes go up 2%, from 3% increased to 5%.
Instead of being fair and balanced, the New York Times et al strive to promote conservative slant and bias as news and set out to deliberately misinform the public as much as possible.
The New York Times article states the misleading 66% in the headline and you have to read to the fifth paragraph to extract the truth. Talk about burying the lead. And people wonder why the public or legislatures will no longer vote for higher taxes in the modern era? it’s because of the psychotic conservative distortion of misrepresenting a 2% increase as 66% by using a semantical distinction and refusing to provide the base number the 66% refers to. Absolutely sickening, horrid, abysmal, biased journalistic practice intended to stoke fear rather than inform with facts.
No one has said Palin, Beck, Limbaugh, or any Republican politician was directly responsible for Tucson. Try this, when you first heard of the shootings, what was your reaction? Mine was not shock. I thought it was bound to happen. Why? Because the language that has dominated political debate since Obama was elected is over the top, exaggerated, and in many cases hateful. Entertainment, if you want to call Beck, Limbaugh, and Hannity entertainment, is not funny when it is mean spirited and done at someone else’s expense. Yes, Dem politicos, Markos, Olberman, and others on the left cross the line. But any objective analysis shows that the rhetoric on the right is far more insidious and frequent. Be honest.
The right is claiming victimhood again because the left is using this horrific event to ask questions about political rhetoric. Victimhood equals defense and a desire to change the subject because the right knows where the overwhelming amount of hateful rhetoric comes from.
I am glad the country is having this discussion. Funny how the free speechers on the right want to shut down the discussion.
The Right turned Sarah Palin into a celebrity, she keeps showing up saying vitriolic stupid things, demands “Real Americans” treat politics like a war using gun metaphors and quits governor to host a reality show. And then when a Democratic politician who was targeted by “bullseyes” in proto-threatening ads repeatedly used by the Tea Party and actually calls out Palin, and is then shot point blank along with others in Arizona of all places, us “liberals” are supposed to pretend there’s no there there. Okay.
You liberals should be showing some embarrassment now that it is a matter of record that Jared Loughner didn’t listen to talk radio or Fox News, was registered as an independent, and didn’t even bother to vote in the last election. He was apolitical, so all your nonsense about right wing rhetoric being responsible for his insane action was just wrong.
“He was apolitical, so all your nonsense about right wing rhetoric being responsible for his insane action was just wrong.”
That’s not what anybody is saying. We know this guy was a loon, probably of the Libertarian stripe. But the coinky-dink that he shot the same politician who was TARGETED by Palin’s cute bullseye doesn’t give you a moment to contemplate the culture of guns and rhetoric?
You should be embarrassed.
“in the excerpt of Palin’s video they played this morning on NPR she sounded downright presidential.”
I’ll agree to the extent that almost all presidents in the last 50 years have been terrible people.
But John M… are “we” wrong about the tone of discourse?
There is a reason that the media jumped on the issue… as did the Sheriff in AZ. It’s been ugly.
So great… zero cause and effect in this case. Does that justify the continuing hate speech?
“Meanwhile Obama remains mum, lovely.”
Yes, he visited Giffords at her bedside and is in Tucson for the memorial where he’ll speak. Awful man.
“But the coinky-dink that he shot the same politician who was TARGETED by Palin’s cute bullseye doesn’t give you a moment to contemplate the culture of guns and rhetoric?”
No, since it’s documented he had a beef since 2007 against Giffords.
The right’s been worse than the left in rhetoric the past two years. The party out of power usually is. Can you imagine someone making Death of a President 2: The Obama Administration?
I don’t really see left-right as a line so much as a globe. The true moderative center of this country is the North Pole. The Dems are on the left equator, the GOP is on the right equator. About half of the US lives around the Tropic of Cancer. Rush, Hannity & co. would like to convince us they’re on the equator (not the Tropic of Capricorn) and anyone near the Tropic of Cancer is a RINO. Kos/Olby same way of their half of the political globe.
The Tropic of Capricorn = Ratings!
Loughner lives at the South Pole with the other extremists/nutcases. Doesn’t matter what part of the globe they walked down to get there. They’re there.
Direwolf: You said, “But any objective analysis shows that the rhetoric on the right is far more insidious and frequent. Be honest.”
As far as “BE HONEST” you are clearly not!! The RIGHT NEVER CALLS FOR VIOLENCE!!!! Never have they EVER called for any form of violence!!! That is clear if you ever listen to “the Right!”
However, THE LEFT CALLS FOR DEATH, MUTILATION, REMOVAL, SHUNNING, AND SILENCING!!!! Did you not hear Alec Baldwin demand that the people KILL U.S. Rep. Henry Hyde (and his entire family). Did you not hear Ed Schultz demand death? Did you not hear your foolish president say “If they bring a knife to the fight, WE BRING A GUN!!!”
Direwolf: I challenge you to COMPARE THE RHETORIC OF THE LEFT AND THE RIGHT “HONESTLY” since that is the standard you demand! And, then “honestly” tell me that the Right calls for death more often than the Left! And, then “honestly” tell me that the Right calls for violence more often than the Left!
^^ wow, the delusional exclamation-point abusers are crawling out of the woodwork!!!!!!!!!
Way to go Sarah by stoking the fire even more with an anti-semitic remark. Instead of smiling and nodding while talking about murders and national tragedies, try having some humility. I was compelled to create a visual commentary of her political rhetoric and its effects on my artist’s blog at http://dregstudiosart.blogspot.com/2011/01/sarah-palin-made-me-do-it.html. Drop by and let me know what you think.
Shults: It’s not the liberals who keep Palin in business, but the media, who follow her around obsessively; if she farts, someone’s there to record it. I guarantee that if all coverage of her ceased, she’d be dust inside of two months.
Direwolf: Olbermann, Markos, et al mock Republicans, and occasionally call for the worst of them to step down, but they have never, EVER used terms like “shoot,” “assassinate,” “behead,” “blow up,” “wipe ’em out” and other expressions that are constantly used by the right; one jackass in the National Review even called for Chelsea Clinton’s death. This is just another example of false equivalence.
John M: Loughner believed the government was “out to get him,” bought an automatic weapon and shot a Democratic Congresswoman, killing or wounding 19 others in the process, including a federal judge and a 9-year-old girl. These are not the actions of a liberal. They ARE the actions of a right-winger.
thussaiththewalrus:
If you’re so interested in being HONEST, feel free to address these:
Brad Goehring, candidate (R-CA) – “If I could issue hunting permits, I would officially declare today opening day for liberals. The season would extend through November 2 and have no limits on how many taken as we desperately need to “thin” the herd.”
.
.
Rep. Gregg Harper (R-MS) – “We hunt liberal, tree-hugging Democrats, although it does seem like a waste of good ammunition.”
My God, Newt Gingrich agreed with D’Souza that Obama shows a “Kenyan, anti-colonial world view” — WTF does that imply but that Obama fears slave-owners because he’s secretly from Kenya. Rep. Trent Franks from AZ said Obama was “an enemy of humanity” as wackos with guns strut around his Townhall — at ant-war rallies they carried evil Bush puppets. There’s been a non-stop stream of badly-disguised bigotry from the Right since Palin opened her mouth — she’s always divisive, always calling out perceived foes, always playing victim and always the number one hypocrite in the room. Nobody even cares that Presidents bow before the radio man who called Obama a “halfrican-American” among other bon mots. And who yesterday said that the Democrats “support Laugnher.” Even Ailes ordered FOX to ratchet it down — implying he knows what side he’s on.
And it’s that side waving guns around — so there is no comparison. And the reason the Right instantly freaked out is because they have seen the same things as the “left” — and now they have to answer for the rhetoric. “Blood Libel”? Has there ever been such a tone-deaf politician in recent memory?
John, fuck that false equivalency shit. THERE IS NOT COMPARISON BETWEEN THE LEFT AND THE RIGHT IN THIS RECORD! FOX NEWS LIES! IT’S A FUCKING FACT! The fact that people like you make that equivalency when it’s so far from reality, goes a lot to show the sheer ignorance of the American people at the moment. One side lies, one side uses terrorist level rhetoric about TAKING THE GOVERNMENT BACK, and one side is all about GUNS. THOSE ARE THE FACTS AND THAT’S WHY THOSE PEOPLE ARE DANGEROUS!
John M: FUCK YOU! Wow, he’s registered as an independent, WHOOPIDY DOO! The stupid ass independents in this country just put the people who started this financial crisis and put THEM BACK IN OFFICE! Seriously, the dude hated her, and he hated her for his own reasons one them may end up being political. Nevertheless, you fuckers DREW BLOOD and the fact that you refuse to accept it and keep on trying to deflect it at all cost. Gives every progressive and democrat in this country even more of a reason to spend the next two years getting you pathetic assholes out of office.
ETA: Dire, when I heard the news. I thought to myself; “One of those crazy teabagger bastards finally killed a democrat.”
Walrus: put down the fucking whacky tabacky and realize that every part of your statement is so full of shit, that there’s a literally stink coming off of it at the moment.
And if America needed any confirmation of what’s what, compare Palin’s message to America to Obama’s at the memorial.
An op-ed in the WSJ used the term ‘blood libel’ in its title a day or two ago. Its a title I used when linking to that piece from this blog, with nary a peep in response. Palin uses the term in her speech, and it gets its own blog entry.
This does give DP another opportunity to distance himself from his opening salvo, which was NOT about the state of political rhetoric in general. It was a CONDEMNATION. [i]Look at what YOU’VE DONE,[/i] it shouted. It wasn’t whether one was culpable, only how great the culpability was.
Its the same old story: Clinton blamed the OK City bombing on talk radio; the left pinned Tiller’s murder on O’Reilly for using a nickname Tiller earned years before O’Reilly ever mentioned him; Bloomberg opined that the Times Square bomber was probably someone mad about the health care bill. Defensive? You’re damn right.
Is the rhetoric worse now? Does the memory of Bush being called a terrorist and a mass murderer, direct calls for his assassination, and burning/hanging him in effigy, remind you of a more civilized time?
How about a broader perspective? How many times have we seen fisticuffs on the floor of foreign parliaments? When have we had something approaching a Burr-Hamilton duel?
Could we all do better? Without question. Will we? What discourages me is the obliviousness of those who opened this debate with baseless partisan accusations, and fail to see how that lengthened the odds for a civilized debate.
Ultimately, it’s all Al Gore’s fault. If he hadn’t been so eager to distance himself from Clinton and prove he was “his own man” by picking moralizing turncoat Joe Lieberman for VP instead of Bob Graham, he wouldn’t have driven so many on the far-left to vote for Nader in protest and probably would also have carried his home state of Tennesee and Florida, to boot, and then we all could have been spared the entire decade of Bush and the resurgance of the lunatic fringe Christian-right. Brazen shamelessness trumps wishy-washy spinelessness every time.
Yeah but the stupid assholes in this country who are immune The President’s speech, will completely miss the elegance he can convey about this country. Seriously, the progressive part of me wants him to be a lot more left that this left center crap, but the beauty he has in these situations is never ever lost on me. It’s amazing prose and if only we lived in a country where that beautiful and amazing prose could move those stupid assholes.
ETA: Yeah Mystery, Leah explained to you why people were pissed at George. Not a fan of the effigy or assassination talk but you have to realize every president on either side of the party line, has received such treatment. Bush, being a war criminal and what not, deserved what he got, but there is not justification for the effigy or assassination language to the leader of our country. Be him a saint or a god damn sinner.
That aside, TILLER THE KILLER is brought up because the guy who killed him had letters that brought up RIGHT WING RHETORIC!
What discourages me are assholes like you mystery, who refuses to realize YOUR SHIT STINKS. Seriously, REPCONS refuses to understand that your shit stinks, that if this guy is not tied to you that you still use violent rhetoric that will get someone killed, and that guess what you have gotten people killed with VIOLENT RHETORIC! Iraq ring a bell? Get back to me when it’s the 1980s and your side stand for something at least, and are not complete and utter assholes.
ETA II: GOD DAMN RIGHT SHILI! If GORE would have had the backbone he displaced after the Supreme Court did what they did, then this country would most definitely be in a better place. Fucking Clinton and his god damn dick. IT WAS THE RUINATION OF A NATION!
And the fact that Sarah Palin takes her talking points from the biggest hack editorial page in the nation is more proof she shouldn’t be near political office. Her bad. Again.
And gee mystery, I recall Ann Coulter’s clever aside to Bill O’Reilly in 2009 on FOX:
“I don’t really like to think of it as a murder. It was terminating Tiller in the 203rd trimester.”
“in the excerpt of Palin’s video they played this morning on NPR she sounded downright presidential…
Meanwhile Obama remains mum, lovely.”
This was funny at the time of posting, but outright hilarious after Obama’s speech.
I mean, what, are you playing opposite day with us locke? Because otherwise I’d suggest putting the bottle down.
the topic has spun so far from the original story. a blog like this particular one shows just how raw we’ve all been rubbed.
blame the media.
and let’s try to remember here people, trying to find logic and reason in a tragedy that lacks both logic and reason is like trying to reassemble shredded paper.
perspective, mother fuckers. we could all use some.
We’re engaging in political discourse right now. In looking at all the comments, who has been most responsible for the namecalling, insults, and vitriol here? The liberal commenters, by a landslide. If you want the climate to change, start here.
The part of Obama’s speech that I caught was fine. He basically said that while political rhetoric had nothing to do with this tragedy, we can and should do better. What struck me was the atmosphere, which felt like a political/pep rally. Obama’s delivery was so charismatic, it almost felt like a swagger. And the hoots and hollars and shout-outs from the audience? Just a little peculiar, under the circumstances, imo. No biggie.
I’m sure the people there are fully capable of determining how they should grieve and heal and behave at an event like last night’s. I don’t think we’re in a position to judge them or how they acted from afar.
The comments here are child’s play compared to the vitriolic rhetoric on sites specifically dealing with current events/politics/media. Some of the most harmless stuff I’m frequently called: Libtard, radical left-wing degenerate, lefty scum. I could go on and on.
mystery in your estimation is there so much blame to go around, neither side should be criticizing the other’s heated political rhetoric?
Shorter mystery:
Poor Sarah Palin. She’s trying to be statesmanlike and point out that Barack wants to have death panels and pals around with terrorists, and people SLANDEROUSLY accuse her target map of being maybe in a bit of bad taste retrospectively what with the targeted congressmen actually being shot. The direct comparison to two millenia of genocidal anti-semitism is indeed warranted. Plus instapundit said it first.
i think the reveal for Sarah Palin here isn’t blame for anything that happened with this tragedy.
Her response speech shows a) she doesn’t understand what she’s saying. b) the people handling her don’t know what they’re doing. Someone like her has been handed the keys to the car with an open lane to a nomination. All she had to do was get there without fucking everything up.
In truth, Sarah Palin is like a road comedy. It should be easy to get from point a to b. but along the way you encounter a few onstacles and rather than gracefully steer around them you end up getting beat up by a wheelchair bound Danny McBride while trying to get some money wired to you. Or you forget to untie the dog from the rear bumper.
And like most road comedies its turned comical, though the gag is becoming tired.
I find it hilarious that this “blood libel” thing has sparked all this media coverage along the lines of “Will this hurt Palin’s chances of becoming President?”
Of course it won’t. Because she has no chance of becoming President! Democrats are wetting their pants in the hopes that she gets the nomination, and I don’t think the GOP is stupid enough to let it happen.
Believe me, if she emerges as a real threat in the primary, her own party will take her down fast.
Mystery, what you post is annoying as shit because it simply ignores facts. Excuse me for having such a short fuse with someone who represents a group of people, that want nothing more than to fuck over as many Americans as possible.
mystery-
That’s because those of us who don’t lean right are SICK of the nastiness being thrown around by that side. Speaking for myself, it’s scary and has been scary for a while. Now, I’m angry it finally boiled over. I may be using angry, negative, insulting words like many, but I’m STILL not calling for anyone’s death.
I don’t CARE if the shooter was a tea bagger or a Reaganite or a Clinton fan. Giffords had her name on a map by a prominent politician and that map had gun sights. She got shot. RushBeckSavageHannityCoulterO’Reilly have been spewing hate to radio listening psychopaths for years. It needs to find some moderation.
Don’t we all have a little bit of political myopia though? We pay close attention to and find ourselves outraged by the other side’s nasty rhetoric, while ignoring similar rhetoric used by our side. It’s not as if left-wingers never use overheated political rhetoric. While it seems to me that anti-Obama rhetoric is excessive and occasionally insane, that’s probably how a lot of right-wingers felt during the Bush years.
Paul- “mystery in your estimation if there so much blame to go around, neither side should be criticizing the other’s heated political rhetoric?”
Not in this context. Otherwise, criticize away. I don’t blame Obama for addressing the issue, since the cat’s out of the bag. But the opening gambit on this topic was to poison the well, and the discourse hasn’t recovered.
We’re responsible for our own rhetoric. Change will happen when we each decide as individuals not to participate– not to initiate, or respond in kind.
The left will get more traction from their criticisms if they stick to the legitimate beefs (which they have), stop the alarmist finger-pointing at common figures-of-speech, and quit trying to tenuously link their political enemies to unrelated tragedies.
Torpid- “…people SLANDEROUSLY accuse her target map of being maybe in a bit of bad taste retrospectively what with the targeted congressmen actually being shot”
That’s not quite how I remember things going down.
And the hoots and hollers and shout-outs from the audience? Just a little peculiar, under the circumstances, imo.
Except that the memorial was billed as a “celebration” – and it was clearly catharsis. Who has a problem with the audience effected by the tragedy cheering Republican and Democrat? Cheering Gifford’s recovery? Those who saved lives? Only a desperate flailing right-winger.
The Republican mayor said the cheering was completely appropriate, thus killing the GOP media “Wellstone” meme.
And this “it’s both sides” bullshit is just that. How many political shootings occured under Bush here?
And the past two weeks have been a clear view of the GOP in da house.
From Slate.com: “Are Assassins More Likely To Target Liberals? Its complicated.”
http://www.slate.com/id/2280830?wpisrc=xs_wp_0001
You’ve convinced us that psychopaths should have easier access to firepower.
I have a significant number of students in the religion courses I teach at a satellite campus of a large state university who think the Jews crucified Jesus, because that’s what they’ve been taught by their parents, that’s the message they get in church, and they don’t read the Bible much or very closely when they do. So, when I educate such students that accusations of Deicide and blood libel were the top two justifications for the repeated slaughter and persecution of Jewish populations in Europe throughout history, they are shocked… because they have never heard of this before. They are ignorant of historical context and need to be taught how to read their own sacred texts.
So it’s really not okay to defend Sarah Palin’s obliviousness to this context when speaking to the nation in an overtly presidential way… a fireside chat in front of the flag of the United States of America. If she had used the word “lynching,” it would be true that the word had other connotations in different contexts, but would not excuse her insensitivity to the history of lynching in the Jim Crow era. She and her handlers and speechwriters either did not know or did not care about the history of blood libel, or she would have avoided using it.
This says everything you need to know about her capacity for empathy, or for her sympathy for the suffering of anyone other than her herself and the constituency she represents. She’d be a real Nixon of a president, right down to the enemies list and the anti-Semitic slurs (but it would be okay, because she wouldn’t know she was making them).
What a Christian. I love that Gospel where Jesus says, if someone hits you on the cheek, don’t retreat — reload! Or that parable about the Pharisee and the Publican, where Jesus says that only the ostentatiously religious have a shot at the Kingdom of Heaven. Or that part where he says that only zealots who persecute their ideological opponents will have eternal life, which is why he appeared to Saul.
Poor, poor persecuted Sarah Palin, hounded by liberals and the media and the Jews and their sympathizers every time she says something ignorant, hypocritical, or bigoted. I’m sure she would have risen to the occasion if only she hadn’t had to respond to everyone who says such mean things about her all the time. They just won’t let her be classy, will they?
Did anyone get anything out of Obama’s “come together” speech or is already back to hating anyone who disagrees with you?
I think disagreement is still allowed.
Yeah Paul but…
Left wing rhetoric= health care for all Americans, civil discourse, let’s control the crazy hate speech
Ring wing rhetoric= reload, target, second amendment solutions, free to say whatever we want
Was that directed specifically at me, Krillian? If not, I won’t respond, but if it is, I have a few things to say.
I found this interesting. Said by a conservative who was running the Civility Project in an effort to tame heated political rhetoric. He has ended the project.
“The worst e-mails I received about the civility project were from conservatives with just unbelievable language about communists, and some words I wouldn’t use in this phone call,” DeMoss told The Times. “This political divide has become so sharp that everything is black and white, and too many conservatives can see no redeeming value in any liberal or Democrat. That would probably be true about some liberals going the other direction, but I didn’t hear from them.”
A story seemingly buried under the weight of the week:
“Today my wife of 20 years asks me do I think that my PCs (Precinct Committee members) will shoot at our home?
I love the Republican Party, but I don’t want to take a bullet for anyone.
So with this being said I am stepping down from LD20GOP Chairman. I will make a full statement on Monday.”
– Frm. Chairman Anthony Miller
Anthony Miller is the state of Arizona’s ONLY Black Republican to chair a legislative district. In a party already vastly racially unbalanced and standoffish towards the interests of the communities it hasn’t served in decades is suffering another lost in the battle of racial equality.
Verbal threats and Internet blog posts from Tea Party member’s causes it’s only African-American Republican district chairman to quit.
News from AZCentral.com: 43-year-old Anthony Miller resigned from his position as the Chairman of Legislative District 20 Republicans; which covers sections of Chandler, south Tempe, and Ahwatukee Foothills.
Mr. Miller resigned six hours after the massacre in Tucson, Arizona. The former chairman, in an email, stated he made the decision after his wife asked him if he thought someone would shoot at their home.
http://timvalentine.wordpress.com/2011/01/13/anthonymiller/
Not directed at anyone. Morning after, and I’d still rather find common ground with folks or civilly disagree rather than angrily repeat Cee-Lo Brown lyrics in all caps with multiple exclamation points.
(Dangit, now that tune’s stuck in my head…)
Despite the strong association of the term with collective Jewish guilt and concomitant slaughter, Sarah Palin has every right to use it. The expression may be used whenever an amorphous mass is collectively accused of being murderers or accessories to murder.
The abominable element of the blood libel is not that it was used to accuse Jews, but that it was used to accuse innocent Jews—their innocence, rather than their Jewishness, being the operative point. Had the Jews been guilty of any of these heinous acts, the charge would not have been a libel.
I don’t know what to say, Not So Fast. It never occurred to me that accusing Jews of using the blood of Christian babies to make their matzoh, or stabbing communion wafers with knives in their secret synagogue rituals, had nothing to do with their Jewishness.
“Had the Jews been guilty of any of these heinous acts.” Innocent until proven guilty of babies’ blood matzoh meal? Hand over those matzoh balls, Moishe!
The abominable element of the blood libel was precisely that it accused Jews of things they couldn’t possibly have done as a pretext for their persecution, torture, and murder — not that their accusers lied about the charges!
Yes, yes, Sarah Palin’s right to use a term with a painful history for Jewish people is guaranteed by the very Amendment to the Constitution that Gabrielle Giffords read aloud in the House of Representatives, as Palin herself pointed out. I’m sure that’s a great comfort to the members of Giffords’ synagogue as they pray for her recovery.
What is crass and disgusting about Palin’s response is that in using “blood libel” without knowledge or concern for its full connotations, not simply as a synonym for “collective guilt,” she made herself and her supporters seem like the real victims of the tragedy in Tucson, paying lip service to the dead and wounded while making herself the center of the story and perversely twisting the response to the event as yet another example of American exceptionalism. And, in the process, engaged in the “mindless finger-pointing” she decries at the end of her video.
“Despite the strong association of the term with collective Jewish guilt and concomitant slaughter, Sarah Palin has every right to use it. The expression may be used whenever an amorphous mass is collectively accused of being murderers or accessories to murder.”
So you’re saying that right wing rhetoric and ideology, unquestionably based on positing the basic illegitimacy of democratic governance, has no moral similarity to deliberately political killing sprees, killing sprees casually invoked in that very rhetoric? The trick of course is to imagine us saying not that individuals are responsible for specific acts or words, but that amorphous ethnic groups are responsible for the bloody murder itself.
Incidentally the right unapologetically indulges in fevered libel of enemy collectives, such as “muslims” or “immigrants” or “The Gay.” But somehow comfortable, white suburbanites are always under seige…
This is just well-practiced sophistry, nothing else.
Are we not all Americans, patriotic and decent even if we vote for different parties? Why villify others who do not agree with you, there are great people on either side of the divide. Being courteous and considerate of others is both polite and necessary for any country to stand together. There are enough people trying to tear America down, why should we, the people, help them by incivility and hate speech.
The more serious question, Not So Fast, is if Ms Palin either knows the historic context of her rhetoric OR whether she even knows what she means when she uses phrase like that.
What the hell was she trying to say?
Just the word “libel” is a dubious choice, given that no one really made a direct causal connection to the murders and her ads.
In the end, it was really like police looking at the significant other for a murder. Not always true. Certainly not always fair. But it’s hardly an insane leap to consider it seriously.
She just clarified exactly what she meant, David:
http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/102330/20110118/palin-defends-use-of-blood-libel-term.htm
Defended in her use of the term by… Alan Dershowitz and Sharron Angle, two paragons of moral virtue.
Poland – Just the word “libel” is a dubious choice, given that no one really made a direct causal connection to the murders and her ads.
Libel – http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/libel
I don’t know if you’re familiar with this guy’s blog, but this post seems to fit the definition.
http://tinyurl.com/4f6afpl
And that, leads to this..
http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2011/01/17/poll_palin_map_arizona/index.html
Re: blood libel. To quote the Templar, she chose poorly. Because Giffords is Jewish it creates a subtextual correlation to the history and shows incredible myopia by her crew, a defensiveness that flashes victimhood. That said, if Giffords was born-again, Palin would be derided for trying to blend herself with the congressman into one victim. If Giffords was Catholic, the Torquemada references would be flying. If Giffords was Romanian, blood libel would suddenly become a F’ing metaphor for Vlad Tepes. It’s a no-win situation. She would have been better letting the facts, one again, crush the attempted narrative.
You know what’s really going to suck? When Obama is forced to directly answer about her culpability. If he dances, he loses the middle. If he repudiates the charge, hissyfit time on the left. Nice options.
I am not sure I agree with the definition of Blood Libel. I have always understood the the Blood Libel as a reference to the passage in the Bible when Pilate was trying Jesus and he asked the crowd what they wanted him to do with Christ. They said Crucify him. Pilate then washes his hands and says I am innocent of this man’s blood and the Pharisees say may his blood be on us and our children. This is the Blood Libel that led to the myths that Jews killed Christian children and used their blood in religious and magikal ceremonies….
“When Obama is forced to directly answer about her culpability. If he dances, he loses the middle. If he repudiates the charge, hissyfit time on the left. Nice options.”
Yes, it’s been a real disaster for Obama. For all your film smarts, you really are an entry-level political thinker.
WASHINGTON — President Barack Obama has bounced back from his low point after November’s elections and enjoys stronger support heading into the 2012 election cycle, particularly against Sarah Palin, according to a McClatchy-Marist poll released Thursday.
Read more: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2011/01/13/106788/poll-obama-rebounding-with-voters.html#ixzz1BgnImOgi
sigh. This is boring, Christian. I’m your enemy. I get it.
Two years ago, I laid out to you, Jeff, Stella etc…what exactly was going to transpire; the problem wasn’t Obama, it was his inexperience, which was going to force him to rely on the clowns around him. I namechecked Nancy, Harry and Rahm. The collective answer was a shrug off. And what happened? Mass and Jersey went R, followed by the biggest rightward tilt since 1928, in a redistricting year to boot.
So what’s Obama done? He blinked on the Bush tax rates, canned almost his entire cabinet, brought in a JP Morgan guy as CoS and began playing nice-nice with Big Business. On top of that, he gives a good speech that blamed no one but the shooter. Clinton 3.0 and his numbers move. Shocker. In other words, the more he tacks center-right, the better he does.
Truth is, it’s becoming a win-win. If the left throws a shitfit and drags him left, his numbers dive and he’s Carter. If the left goes along, believing he’ll usher in some progressive utopia in his second term, the odds are even stronger that no leftist Dem will win in purple areas because they won’t be able to run against Obama’s popular center-right policies. So Obama wins a second term with an even more right-aligned 2012 Congress, more House seats in solid red states, and the majority of state legislative bodies holding as R. Fine by me.
Martin, if you think the right wins jack and shit in 2012, you are out of your fucking mind. The right got in on bullshit again, they are only going to fuck up like they did in 94, and that will be that.
Seriously, Obama is going the wrong way and he’s probably not going to understand until it’s too late. The last election was a testament to stupidity of people who will never ever get what they want from the government. The Teabaggers are never going to win. What they want, does not work, and the Repcon representatives who were not brought in on this furor will never ever cave in ways that can cost them their cushy gigs.
Last year just led to the Repcons enhancing their own decline. Obama not getting this and still wanting to negotiate with people who have basically stuck themselves in a corner, is just plains stupid.
“This is boring, Christian. I’m your enemy. I get it.”
Yes, again, your rhetoric soars.
Obama passed a Health Care bill — which even Bubba couldn’t do; passed a whole set of new bills making it easier to for our youth to get into college; passed a hate crimes act; the Lily-Ledbetter act; stopped the use of prescribed torture (if not shutting down gitmo) at least changed the nature of the Bush/Cheney torture doctrine; saved GM from bankruptcy along with other stimulus efforts (better than the GOP alternative of doing absolutely nothing — except bailing out Wall Street)…oh, and lowered taxes for 90 percent of working American families. That’s just a few things you pretend didn’t happen. Your intellectual dishonesty is well-noted.
So in your blinkered FOX hole, he’s done nothing. And you come up with some sad idea that if he doesn’t denounce Palin, he’s done for! Well, that time has passed.
Meanwhile, your flailing party accuses him of being a Kenyan born Marxist Communist Muslim hell-bent on destroying the nation. A party led by the biggest rubes and haters in recent memory, typified by the new governor of Alabama stating that if you’re not a Christian, you’re not this brother or sister or Bachmann’s dumber mental cousin, Santorum to declare about Obama that it’s “remarkable for a black man to say, ‘we’re going to decide who are people and who are not people.'” If you’re fine with those folks as your representatives of exceptionalism, savor this moment.
So just keep dancing, cheer the GOP while they read selected quotations from the Constitution in some hilarious theatrical charade, waste taxpayer time and money with AM radio chum, dissing gays and hispanics, and pine away for Sarah Palin to somehow bring about the downfall of liberalism. Yea, that’s the 2012 ticket!
America is getting a great glimpse at the idiocy of the new GOP in da house within two weeks – and they see the adult in the room and the children.