It shows how out of it I was in trying to be in it, acknowledging that I was out of it to myself, and then thinking, “Okay, how do I stop being out of it? Well, I get some legitimate illogical narrative ideas” — some novel, you know?
So I decided on three writers that I might be able to option their material and get some producer, or myself as producer, and then get some writer to do a screenplay on it, and maybe make a movie.
And so the three projects were “Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep,” “Naked Lunch” and a collection of Bukowski. Which, in 1975, forget it — I mean, that was nuts. Hollywood would not touch any of that, but I was looking for something commercial, and I thought that all of these things were coming.
There would be no Blade Runner if there was no Ray Bradbury. I couldn’t find Philip K. Dick. His agent didn’t even know where he was. And so I gave up.
I was walking down the street and I ran into Bradbury — he directed a play that I was going to do as an actor, so we know each other, but he yelled “hi” — and I’d forgot who he was.
So at my girlfriend Barbara Hershey’s urging — I was with her at that moment — she said, “Talk to him! That guy really wants to talk to you,” and I said “No, fuck him,” and keep walking.
But then I did, and then I realized who it was, and I thought, “Wait, he’s in that realm, maybe he knows Philip K. Dick.” I said, “You know a guy named—” “Yeah, sure — you want his phone number?”
My friend paid my rent for a year while I wrote, because it turned out we couldn’t get a writer. My friends kept on me about, well, if you can’t get a writer, then you write.”
~ Hampton Fancher
“That was the most disappointing thing to me in how this thing was played. Is that I’m on the phone with you now, after all that’s been said, and the fundamental distinction between what James is dealing with in these other cases is not actually brought to the fore. The fundamental difference is that James Franco didn’t seek to use his position to have sex with anyone. There’s not a case of that. He wasn’t using his position or status to try to solicit a sexual favor from anyone. If he had — if that were what the accusation involved — the show would not have gone on. We would have folded up shop and we would have not completed the show. Because then it would have been the same as Harvey Weinstein, or Les Moonves, or any of these cases that are fundamental to this new paradigm. Did you not notice that? Why did you not notice that? Is that not something notable to say, journalistically? Because nobody could find the voice to say it. I’m not just being rhetorical. Why is it that you and the other critics, none of you could find the voice to say, “You know, it’s not this, it’s that”? Because — let me go on and speak further to this. If you go back to the L.A. Times piece, that’s what it lacked. That’s what they were not able to deliver. The one example in the five that involved an issue of a sexual act was between James and a woman he was dating, who he was not working with. There was no professional dynamic in any capacity.
~ David Simon
I have not seen Tristram Shandy, but yes. Wallace and Gromit was better than either The Constant Gardener or Pride & Prejudice.
Thandie Newton was one of the _worst_ things about Crash.
Puttnam’s speech will go down as one of the greats – the fact that he managed to elegantly fuse cinema with all of our lives with a simple anecdote about watching the populist Sixth Sense was truly wonderful. A class act.
No offense to Keener but she was blown off the screen last year by Newton. How can you be surprised about that – Williams though could be forgiven for stammering.
“Wallace & Gromit: Curse of the Wererabbit was better than The Constant Gardener, Pride & Prejudice, and Tristam Shandy?”
Yes.
“I do, however, consider the Thandie Newton win a shock, at the expense of Michelle Williams and Catherine Keener.”
It’s less of a shock when you factor in her Britishness and the voting pool.
“Speaking of Pride & Prejudice, how is it possible that it beat both Tsotsi and Shooting Dogs for the Alexander Korda Award?”
See above, re: Thandie Newton and Britishness.
As much as I loved it much better than Brokeback and think it deserves to win–my #2 movie of the year and got a 10/10 from me–the Crash “serious threat” is a myth propagated by the movie’s team and journalists willing to buy into it. Even though SAG picked it for Best Ensemble, the actors of the Academy ignored a lot of that talented cast when making its picks for the Oscars. I have a feeling that Brokeback Mountain wins a lot more of them as an overall piece of work than Crash does.
It’s rather difficult for us to put aside your disdain for Brokeback Mountain, when you are unable to. It’s clear in this post (and everything you write, actually) that you don’t like the film, don’t think it deserves to win anything and will take any opportunity to put the movie down, even in the face of it’s obvious victories.
What was really disturbing was that this opinion about the movie has become permeated throughout the site. I found it puzzling that on the front page while it’s mentioned that BBM won four BAFTA’s, it’s followed up by saying they lost five others. Crash won two, the two it was the clear favorites in, yet it’s deemed as a surprise (and apparently evidence that it’s a BBM spoiler) and it isn’t mentioned that Crash lost 7 others.
The editor’s note contends this was done to avoid suggestion of a sweep by BBM, but I have a feeling that if another film had of had the same success, it wouldn’t have been deemed neccessary. In fact, if Crash or another movie had of won, the articles would screamed Brokeback Loses or ****** beats Brokeback.
And wasn’t winning the ACE award expected for Crash? I was under the impression they were heavily favored. So how can it be a surprise or evidence they’re a big danger to beat BBM?
It’s fine not to like a movie, but when it affects every piece of Oscar coverage, it forces me to not take what I read here as seriously and certainly with a huge grain of salt.
Anthony
Dave Poland, you are UN. BE. LIE. VA. BLE.
Unbelievably sucky, that is. Can you say some nice thing about Brokeback Mountain FOR ONCE?
You suck!
Thandie Newton was not only fantastic in Crash, but she deserved an Academy Award nomination for her work!
Not only did she capture the accent and look and feel of her American character, but she was able to get her character to run the gambit of emotions from violated, angry and insulted to forgiving, reconciliatory (esp. with her husband) and trusting.
She had less than 1 week to rehearse and shoot her scenes, and Haggis has stated in several interviews that he did not direct the experienced actors. Rather he just gave them simple instructions on what he wanted and he expected them to do the rest.
So many cast members of that film should have been nominated in the U.S., however it’s good to see that the British have more sense (they nominated 3 cast members).
This is Newton’s second individual win for an award in that role (her first was the London Critics’ Circle Award), and IMO she gave the best speech of any of the actors last night.
She was clearly emotional, but she did not go over-the-top with gushing and crying. And she not only thanked her family, but she thanked all of the women in the Supporting Actress category and acknowledged their good work.
She seemed to be as gracious as she is beautiful. And as the only Brit who won last night, it was a great win for her and for the UK.
Give it up already. The Oscar races for best pic and director are over. There are five major precursors for the Oscars for best pic and director–the Broadcast Film Critics, the Golden Globes, the DGA, the PGA and the BAFTAs. AMPAS is not going to give the Oscar for best picture or director to a film that has won none of those precursors (Crash) over a film that has won all them and has recieved the most Oscar nominations and has won the WGA as well (BBM). That’s not the way this works. It doesn’t matter what Roger Ebert or David Poland or Tom O’Neil or anyone writes or predicts at this point.
Now there are splits in these precursors for the supporting categories. And if there are surprises this year, that’s where they will be–although I still think that Hurt and McDormand have no chance whatsoever of winning.
Wallace and Gromit is indeed worthy of the praise. I think it is unfortunate that films that are comedy, animated , lite or perceived as such are not given the respect of perceived more important films.
I had the DVD of Constant Gardner 2 weeks ago. Well produced but the same ol’ same ol’.
Gromit is an excellent piece of craftsmanship and too often that is forgotten.
As for this site ‘obsessing’ too much over BBM in all of its Oscar coverage…
What, nobody else is?
Pride & Prejudice won the Carl Foreman award not the Alexander Korda award (which went to Wallace and Gromit).
The Thandie Newton win is a disgrace. Even worse than the “Wallace and Grommit” win. They really know how to make their awards irrelevant.
Newton was great in “Crash”–better than Dillon, Bullock, Philippe, most of the rest. Only Howard seems as good, off hand. Good for her that she won. As for “Wallace and Gromit” winning, why not? It may not be an issue oriented film, but it was a delightful and perfectly crafted work. Even a big “Brokeback Mountain” supporter like me feels it should be about the quality of the achievement, not the “importance” of the theme. In that respect both “Brokeback” and “Wallace” are deserving. It seems to me like a lot of people round here only think movies deserve praise if they have a lot of guns being fired in them: “Munich,” “Heat,” “Matrix”.
If anyone can put a negative spin on winning 4 BAFTAs, it’s David Poland. As Anthony points out, you point out that ”Brokeback” lost 5 other awards, but make no mention that ”Crash” lost 7 others. As for ”surprises,” was it really a surprise that ”Crash” won Original Screenplay? It’s won the WGA and is the front-runner for the Oscar. As for Thandie Newton, the London Film Critics had named Best Supporting Actress on Feb. 8; plus, she’s British. (And she should’ve gotten an Oscar nomination … over Catherine Keener.) If anything, I was surprised that ”Crash” lost Editing, for which it just won the ACE award.
If there’s any actor who was a surprise winner, it was Jake Gyllenhaal. Until yesterday, the London oddsmakers were all betting on George Clooney. So, please give up any pretense that you’re ”perfectly comfy” with ”Brokeback” winning anything. Almost from the start, you underestimated its grosses, downplayed its box office and predicted the movie would ”suffer” as it went wider. It’s clear where you’ve stood with this film from your initial ”BBM” review:
”I would be pleased to say this is the kind of movie that is really good but that will freak out older awards voters. I would be pleased to say that this is the kind of movie that regular audiences won’t get, but that awards voters will embrace. But alas, it is neither. It is, at best, well acted and mediocre.”
You’re welcome to criticize any movie, but what’s ”mediocre” to me is when writers allow their personal dislikes (and likes) to affect and skew their purportedly fair & objective coverage.
It’s not like “Wallace & Gromit” beat out all time classic for that win or anything. It didn’t topple “Citizen Kane” and “The Godfather”.
The only thing that was disgraceful in regard to Newton was the Academy
We can’t put aside what you flaunt, Dave.
Let’s get this out of the way:
The attention we pay to the Oscars is ridiculous.
It’s ridiculous for me to keep reading it and for you to keep writing it.
It’s a pageant and we all know it.
We read (and write) about it anyway because a little part of us loves the hell out of that ridiculous pageant.
So, now that we’ve established that…
It’s OKAY to dislike Brokeback to the extent that every time you have to write about it, your nose curls up, you get defensive, and you feel the need to say “look! it lost more awards than it won, too” in a snarky way. It’s OKAY for you to watch an award show and think “Yes; I can feel the energy for Crash in this room. Oh, Crash can win this; Brokeback may not make it,” and then report back to us. These things are human, especially when there is no objective yardstick to use when thinking about the awards anyway, and when we are invested either in something we like winning or something we don’t like losing.
But to pretend you’re not doing it, but are instead just, you know, surveying the landscape neutrally…well, that’s just silly, David.
Thanks for the new one anyway:
“Jake Gyllenhaal winning was not too much of a surprise, given that George Clooney and Crash both were set up by circumstance to split”
Now you’re sounding a bit like those people who cried “slump” week after week last year.
I just noticed the headline:
“The BAFTAs Love Brokeback Mountain .. Winning Four, (Film, Director, Adapted Screenplay, Supp Actor) While Losing Five… Crash Surprises With Supp Actress & Original Screenplay…Memoirs Of A Geisha Wins 3, Walk The Line 2, And Constant Gardener Surprises By Winning Only For Editing
(Ed Note The Reason For Mentioning BBM’s Losses Is To Avoid Suggesting A True Sweep, Though It Did Win The Top Two Awards, As It Is Expected To As The Oscars.)”
This is the craziest f**kin thing I’ve ever seen. Has David Poland completely lost his mind at this point? I know he doesn’t like BBM, but what so-called “journalist” would write such a headline? Poland seems to want for Variety and other industry rags to take him seriously as a reporter and not just a gossip columnist, and then he goes and does something like posting this headline. Just incredible. It was Phantom of the Opera last year and now it’s Crash. I suppose Poland can’t help himself, but it is amusing watching the complete trainwreck that this site has become in terms of Poland’s credibility.
Dave can’t win on BBM. No matter what happens he’ll look like a villian on it. Like he controls the votes or something.
It’s his job to survey the room and take the temp of voters. You may not like it. But that’s the way it is.
Kaddie001, what I find so ironic in this season of ”Crash” is how short-sighted the Oscar voters are. In a giant, multi-character, multi-ethnic cast about race relations in L.A., the only actor they can nominate is the Caucasian one who plays the racist cop? What about Thandie Newton, with whom Matt Dillon shares his most intense scenes? Or Don Cheadle, who got a BAFTA and SAG nomination? Or Terrence Howard, who would’ve been a deserving double Oscar nominee?
And the Academy continues its record of watching Asian epics (i.e., ”The Last Emperor,” ”Crouching Tiger”) without noticing any of the Asian actors. Zhang Ziyi’s good enough to get a Best Actress nomination from the Golden Globes, SAG and BAFTA, but not from the Oscars.
Sad. If Terrence Howard weren’t up for ”Hustle & Flow,” this year’s crop of Oscar acting nominees would’ve been all-white. So while Hollywood can congratulate itself for voting for ”Crash,” little do they know just how far people of color have yet to go in their very own industry.
Poland’s my boy and all, but I’m inclined to agree… he gets all hysterical about the stupid Oscars six months before the event with long crazy pieces on every aspect of the stupid process then suddenly at the home stretch he gets cynical and declares nobody knows nothing.
At least have the courage of your convictions, man!
Lionsgate does not have a track record for doing the Oscar push for picture (which is why I think they’re overdoing it so that they don’t lose their chance for legitimacy). Focus however has been very good at being a bridesmaid (Lost in Translation, The Pianist). And before Focus it was USA with Traffic and Gosford Park. To suggest Crash be a serious threat does not really take into account that they don’t have the experience…Moore winning for doc was more a phenom than Lionsgate.
If “Brokeback” wins 7 out of 8 on Oscar night, I won’t be shocked if Dave’s headine is: “BROKEBACK loses one!”
And if Brokeback wins all 8 Oscars, the headline would be: “Brokeback lost all categories in which it wasn’t even nominated! Double bad!”
Both DP and Jeff Wells have a history of burning out almost immediately after the nominations are announced. In Wells’ case it’s always ridiculous because he starts up an OscarWatch over a year in advance! Do we really need prognostications on the 2007 telecast when many of these films aren’t even MADE yet, let alone well-received? And he wonders why he “can’t do this anymore.”
I have to agree that the Jake G win was obviously an enormous surprise and I just chuckled and shook my head at Poland’s explanation that “George Clooney and Crash both were set up by circumstance to split.” Is that also true of the Oscars, where Clooney, Crash and Gyllenhaal are all nominated and where none of the Gurus of Gold put Jake G in contention at all?
I can see Dave
Gwiggles’ post is exactly right — we KNOW that the Oscar columnists this year have their own personal favorites, but we don’t want it to affect the coverage and prognosticating. I KNOW that DP loved “Walk the Line”…but to put Joaquin Phoenix as #2 in the Best Actor race? After losing all major awards but one, his tenuous sobriety, his questionable red carpet behavior, his car accident, etc? This is a case of personal preference getting in the way of DP’s ability to read the 1. Hoffman 2. Ledger 3. Howard tea leaves.
I can see them voting for CRASH for Best Pic just to say
“We’re white and we are not racist. Look at us. We’ll also give BROKEBACK a best director award to appease homosexuals. We love everyone. We’re all good people. Genuinely.”
It’s too bad they don’t vote for what they think is Best.
Poland claims Gyllenhaal’s win at the BAFTAs was ”not much of a surprise,” but Gyllenhaal has ”surprised” him before. Shortly before the Oscar nominations came out, Poland predicted that neither Gyllenhaal nor Matt Dillon would make the final five for Supporting Actor (despite their nominations elsewhere in those categories). Instead, Poland was predicting Michael Lonsdale from ”Munich,” who hadn’t won or been nominated ANYWHERE for Supporting Actor. Poland: ”People call this [prediction] crazy.” And it was!
How do you know they don’t vote for what they think is best, Charly. Implicit in your statement is the notion that a film about racism or homosexuality canNOT be the best. That’s racist and homophobic on its face.
Moviecitynews should be renamed wehatebrokeback.com
If BBM does lose at the Oscars we’re going to see some really pissed off and angry people.
Josh, why do you keep projecting your anger and unhappiness onto others. We get exasperated about Dave’s endless foot-in-mouth postings, but we’re not angry. You on the other hand seem to be one of the most angry people I’ve ever encountered.
Poland writes: Speaking of Pride & Prejudice, how is it possible that it beat both Tsotsi and Shooting Dogs for the Alexander Korda Award? (“Box office” seems to be thw likely answer.)
Because Pride & Prejudice is a damn good film and far more enjoyable in my opinion than (Rwanda told from a white man’s POV – so who cares?) Shooting Dogs and (way overhyped) Tsotsi.
Keira Knightley is going to be a huge star. Why wasn’t she up for the new Bond girl?
She’s shooting Pirates 3 (and would not have done it anyway).
Or maybe Keira just took a long, hard look at “Domino” and admitted to herself: You know, I look like a bloody twit with a gun in my hand…
So is the argument in here that the come-from-behind success of The Pianist was not a story in the year Chicago won Best Picture?
(P.S. Anyone who would compare Schindler’s List’s role at The Academy to that of BBM is just masturbating. BBM is very important to a lot of Academy members, but it’s not a holocaust movie and it’s love amongst the 50+ crowd is not as universal as some would love to claim. And if you want to compare critics awards, let’s talk Sideways. For all stats, there are other stats.)
Dave, you mention Sideways every time the overwhelming amount of critics awards are mentioned, but hasn’t Brokeback won more critics awards and gotten more Oscar nominations than Sideways? And isn’t Brokeback considered to be much more of an “Oscar movie” – romance, social conscience, semi-epic time span – than Sideways, with its snarky story and somewhat unlikeable characters?
Hey Kaddie001: no offense, but you read like a publicist. Both of your posts reiterate the same talking points re: Thandie Newton. They’re all interesting but kind of illustrate a ‘she should have been nominated because she’s such a good person’ attitude. I’m sure she made more money to do Crash than Amy Adams did to do Junebug.
I think she wasn’t nominated because of her shrill, annoying, one-dimensional performance. Learning that Haggis was so uncomfortable with directing some of the stars in his cast that he decided not to explains a lot about that movie, too.
Critics lists and awards are total rubbish.
SIDEWAYS would have won last year if they mattered. But I’ll still watch SIDEWAYS when I see it on tv. MILLION BABY? Never.
I’ve looked up and down this thread, David: Who the heck is comparing ”Schindler’s List” to ”Brokeback Mountain”? Of course, ”BBM” isn’t ”a Holocaust movie” (duh!). And whoever claimed its love ”among the 50-plus” crowd was that ”universal”? As we know from your initial review of ”Brokeback,” you’ve said: ”If you are one of the 60-plus of Academy voters, you won’t be in [the] theater after the first act.”
Dannyboy made the comparison – maybe it was on a different thread.
My point, Jeff, is that none of this is a rule. There is no rule that says a film must win or lose. People vote. Just as you or I would vote. And all the “read the precursors” stuff is only as real as the final vote is.
There are upsets and there are sure-fire winners that win. There are backlashs and there immovable objects. You talk to people around town and Crash is no joke. It may win. It may lose. I don’t know. I am guessing… just like everyone else.
You want to go back in time? You can read me saying that Crash didn’t even have a real shot at a nomination. Things change.
I believe what I believe about the lost potential of Munich just as I still believe that there was a lot more money in The Rundown. I still believe that Walk The Line’s BP nomination was Fox’s to lose. I still feel that Savibg Private Ryan would have won if it was released in December instead of mid-summer.
On the flip side, I was dead wrong about Phantom of The Opera, though part of that was a change of circumstance. Would Constant Gardener have made it if Focus was not focused on BBM? I don’t know. And no matter how much I loved Adaptation, I can’t be sure that it was right on the cusp of a BP nod.
BBM may well win. It may win by 40%… or by 1%. That, we will never know. What we do know is that critics groups don’t vote for Oscar and that Crash has, better than any of the other non-BBM contenders, shoved itself into the race. Two months ago, almost no one thought they’d be nominated. Same with Capote. So what do we KNOW now?
Million Dollar Baby, Return Of The King, Chicago, A Beautiful Mind, Gladiator, American Beauty, Shakespeare In Love.
So what do all these films have in common?
They’re all well made, sure, but only a fool would call any one of them a potential classic. In fact, except for M$B, I’ve never had a passionate discussion about any of them.
My point is, to win the best picture Oscar these days is kind of an insult to dangerous, creative moviemaking. In this race, you root AGAINST your favorites.
Wayman_Wong, you have touched on one of my sore points with AMPAS this year! It is sooo frustrating to watch them work.
Yes, this year featured more excellent performances by people of color in successful films than in almost any other previous year. And yet, AMPAS overlooked those performances (even those by veterans) so that only 1 person of color was nominated.
It
Crash has definitely made some amazing strides. It has a definite leg up in the acting categories because for the most part it features respected veteran actors who get some pretty intense scenes. Haggis has a following as well. Editing and song are notable if not very influential achievements. But to suggest it can take picture is a bit extreme. Then again, we do love reading you because you have the contrarian streak.
In Junebug, Embeth Davidtz is the one who visits the family, not Amy Adams.
When only one actor of color is Oscar nominated out of 20, that’s pretty pathetic, especially in a season that also included Gong Li, Q’Orianka Kilcher, Alexander Siddig, Taraji Hensen, etc. …
I don’t know what the racial composition of Oscar voters is, but I’ll bet it’s very, very white. Sometimes it seems that Oscar voters nominate their friends first; then they nominate the better-known actors. And sadly, the better-known names are usually NOT the actors of color.
Dave wrote: [BROKEBACK MOUNTAN’s] love amongst the 50+ crowd is not as universal as some would love to claim.”
First, nobody’s claiming the film is “universally loved.” Nobody is expecting it to sweep the Oscars with 90% of the votes cast in all eight categories. (I
No, what is really condescending to millions upon millions of serious films lovers is that Elton John actually gets to vote on the Academy Awards.
Reason #1054 why I do not take the Oscars seriously.
What a snob you are, Nicol. Sir Elton John earned his right to vote for the Oscars by being nominated for three Oscars and winning one (for best original song for The Lion King.) If you don’t like the idea of artsts working in film giving out awards then ignore the Oscars and pay attention to the critics. Oh wait. they all gave BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN their awards too. Hummm…
If you go to most BBM screenings now, they’re positively filled with old people. I don’t think this is as radical a concept as people are assuming.
I gotta say, this is one of the most entertaining threads I’ve read recently. Great stuff!!
That makes sense mainly because the movie has been out for what, three months? So old people are the prime audience for it at this point.
If saying that having SIR Elton John getting to vote on Best Picture vastly dimishes the credibility of the award makes me a snob then just call me Reginald Dwight.
I wonder, does Don Johnson get to vote on the Grammy’s?
Why isn’t a musician’s perspective on the film valid? Are you saying only producers, directors, and writers should vote on best picture. Or is it just that you don’t like Elton John because he used to wear those funny glasses?
The Oscar’s are supposed to represent the best of art in the field of film. If someone is a composer who makes their living in the field of scoring pictures and is in and out of editing rooms on a daily basis and understands the intricacies and difficulties of the process, like say John Williams or Danny Elfman than of course give them a vote.
But a ‘pop’ singer who wrote a song that won an award and in his everday life has very little to do with the film industry other than the ‘abfab’ parties he throws at Spago. Please.
I say the same thing about Eminem, Celine Dion or any entertainer who just stumbles into the industry by chance.
It is an insult to those who genuinely study and appreciate film as an art form.
When you consider that stunt men and women get no recognition at all and they are the life blood of so many films in the industry. Largely blue collar workers whose craft and cause was championed by such luminaries as Spielberg and Scorsese for inclusion in the Academy but were refused. I do not think it is I who is the snob.
And stunt work genuinely does require both art and science. The films that use their services are the ones that make the money that keep the Oscar winners that the majority of the planet won’t see afloat.
Do you think Spielberg, Ford, Scorsese, Mann (Anthony and Michael), Hawks and many others could have succeeded without stunt people.
No…the inclusion of people like SIR Elton John, Eminem et al. and the exclusion of the blue collar stunt people reflects snobbery. Not my comments.
And yes, I do hate his funny glasses.
“Stunt work genuinely does require both art and science.” Uh, no. Skill, certainly, but not art or science.
You may hate Elton’s funny glasses.
But you sure as heck remember them. And that’s over 30 yrs later.
But should he vote for Oscars? Does Paul Newman vote for the Grammy’s?
I wanna see the speeches for winners of “Best Production Assistant” and “Best Best Boy.”
The BAFTAs always make me writhe (Thandie Newton?! Ahhhhhhhhh!) but I am also very grateful for moments like Puttnam’s speech.
I’d take Elton’s opinions more seriously if he were doing “Saturday night’s alright (for fighting)” than his drivel of the last 15 yrs.
“There is no rule that says a film must win or lose. People vote. Just as you or I would vote. And all the read the precursors stuff is only as real as the final vote is.”
If you don’t rely on the precursors to predict the Oscars, then what do you rely on? Tea leaves? There is no way that any one person–regardless of how well connected–can really know how the 5,798 members of AMPAS are actually voting–talking to Tony Curtis won’t get you there. Some of the precursors (such as the DGA) have been very good predictors about how things will actually turn out. As to the precursor wins for BBM, all you can say is that since the DGA began in 1948, no film that has won this many of the major precursors and that leads in the number of Oscar noms has ever lost. (And yes I do know about An American in Paris, Chariots of Fire, Driving Miss Daisy, Braveheart and Shakespeare in Love–none of the films that were in contention with those winners had the precursor wins that BBM has this year.)
The bottom line is: Do people seriously think that AMPAS will give the best picture Oscar to a film that has won none of the major precursors for best picture and director over a film that has won all of them?
“Uh, no. Skill, certainly, but not art or science.”
You’re right. Spielberg and Scorsese should have shut up.
Do you know what they’re arguments were at the time?
Have you ever seen documentaries on how stunt people work?
How they have to know such concepts in physics as acceleration, velocity, and trajectory. That a miscalculation can result in death.
Do you not think the art of stunts has affected the films of Spielberg, McTirenan and Ford etc.?
Really? You stand by your position?
Oh God…I hope Crash just chokes! The most nausiating made for tv by the numbers “i did this movie because it was…important” nonsense I have ever sat through. I hope any other movie beats that pos out (BBM or Walk the Line). The fact is…if you liked Crash, you’re probably a latent racist, period.
“But should he vote for Oscars? Does Paul Newman vote for the Grammy’s?”
But the ultimate extent of this logic would also say: “should special effects ‘geeks’ be voting on acting.” Then we’d have a whole different system. And unless any of us are on the Academy’s board of directors, or are dues paying memeber, it’s really not for us to tell them who to include or exclude in their voting pool. Personally, I think once you’ve been nominated (certainly once you’ve been nominated multiple times), it’s resonable for the Academy to extend an invitation to let you in.
Considering that in the past, several Academy members have admitted that they let they wives for in their stead, I don’t see the harm in letting Elton John voice his opinion.
Or, how about the voting criteria for AFI’s 100 best movies? Ballots were sent to Bill and Hillary Clinton and Al and Tipper Gore. Beat that!
Now Nicol, you aren’t really suggesting that prior to a car crash scene, the stunt coordinator stands around with a calculator and plots out velocity and trajector, are you? As with many other crafts, stunt work is something that you learn by experience, not through book learning.
I’m not saying you’re wrong about their lack of acknowledgement by the Academy…just don’t oversell your argument.
I remember when Tom Hanks was on Letterman a couple of days after Jack Nicholson won for AS GOOD AS IT GETS. Letterman asked him if he thought Nicholson deserved it, and Hanks said something like: “sure, it’s never a bad call to give it to Jack.” Then, after Letterman started getting into the details of the film and Nicholson’s role, Hanks had to admit he hadn’t even seen AS GOOD AS IT GETS. Letterman said something like “what have you been doing, everyone I know’s seen AS GOOD AS IT GETS.” Hanks, with exasperation replied: “I’ve been sitting in a dentist’s chair for the last week getting my teeth fixed. Before that I was on a movie shoot for 8 weeks!” (Again, that’s a paraphrase.) Still, I had to wonder, does that mean Hanks didn’t vote that year, or did he tick off Nicholson’s name thinking: “hell, it’s never a bad call giving it to Jack.”
And yes, Nicol, I stand by my position. Being able to do complex calculations doesn’t make you a “scientist”. By that leap of logic, the film’s accountants should be let into the Academy. As for your statement: “Do you not think the art of stunts has affected the films of Spielberg, McTirenan and Ford etc.?” Sure. I also think the lab work done at Kodak has effected the films of Spielberg, etc. Doesn’t mean I think the color timers at Kodak should have their own Academy branch.
Nicol D – you’re statement about how silly it is for Sir Elton John to have an Oscar vote does not make you a snob. It just makes you another punk with an opinion. Williams and Elfman would probably cut both their left nuts to have a drop of the musical talent that John possesses. Your Don Johnson analogy is frankly completely wrong and highlights the fact that you have zero understanding of creative talent. Anyone else sick of Nicol D’s idiotic ramblings that make no sense?
Hey, does anyone else find it ironic that if Crash a movie that deals with prejudice were to win BP, it would be due to PREJUDICE. I ask that because all I’ve heard or read on the race for BP is that of Academy members who wouldn’t vote for Brokeback Mountain due to subject matter.
Especially since I seem to recall that Crash had zero gay characters in it, even though it was intended to be a panoply of Los Angeles.
I really, really doubt that John Williams or Danny Elfman are jealous of Elton John.
well maybe just Elfman. Williams is such an egomaniac it wouldn’t occur to him.
“Now Nicol, you aren’t really suggesting that prior to a car crash scene, the stunt coordinator stands around with a calculator and plots out velocity and trajector, are you? ”
The best one’s do, friend. That’s why the top director’s were lobbying for them. Everything from wind speed to distance measurements and air currents have to be taken into account for the big stunts. Talk to some stuntmen and women in the industry.
Do you think Raiders would be as creative without the ‘under the truck sequence?’. Do you not think stunt co-ordinators help devise the creativity of stunts and action sequences? Do you think the Matrix would have been as effective without the stunt choreography? That was not done by the Washowski’s. Did you not find it creative and necessary to the story?
Jeffrey B D
“Anyone else sick of Nicol D’s idiotic ramblings that make no sense?”
You’re absolutely right. Elton John should totally have a say in what the best picture of the year is. As should Eminem and Celine Dion. Their body of work has demonstrated a knowledge of the intimate nature of the craft of cinema that very few can surpass. Ozu, Kurosawa, Fellini…mere peon’s compared to these intellectual giants. Thank you for showing me the error or my ways.
Now, I will put down my copy of Plato and burn my discs of Bergman.
Instead I will gain my wisdoma and insight into art and human nature by putting on ‘I’m Still Standing’, Ass Like That’ and ‘Love Can Move Mountains’.
How dare I express an opinion that differs from yours?
Thine wisdom has shown me the way.
Um…I actually think Williams is more talented than Elton John. Although I probably wouldn’t even try to compare them in the first place because the type of music they create is so different. But I give the edge to Williams because outside of singing, he could probably outmatch John (musical direction, composition, pianism, conducting). I don’t mean that as a dig on John who I respect and love as a musician, but they are not in the same league.
Does Celine Dion really get to vote for best picture? I thought the Oscar for best song went to its composer and lyricist (James Horner and Will Jennings), not the singer. In fact, Alan and Marilyn Bergman are Academy staples, and they are well-known as people who write music and lyrics for movie songs (they’ve won three Oscars)…not scores, mind you.
And I’d say Elton John’s songs in The Lion King were pretty important as well as Eminem’s acting job in 8 Mile. I don’t know if that makes them qualified to vote for best picture, but what other critirea would you use? If it were up to Nicol and I, we’d make everyone take a cineaste test, but how practical is that?
Palmtree – you’d be hard pressed to find any creative who works in the music industry who thinks Williams is the more talented. He recycles the same old overblown scores like a musical version of Stephen King. Apart from singing? Ever heard of these silly things called lyrics?
Nicol D – Ozu, Kurosawa, Fellini – I don’t think dead people can vote. Then again, no one has told Don Rickles that. You said Elton John had no right to vote. You are 100% wrong on that point. He is a talent who has successful and brilliantly worked in film, maybe even before you were born.
The criteria for voting for Best Picture in the Academy is: being an Academy member.
Why shouldn’t Elton John, who’s worked in a lot of films for the past 30+ years, have as much to say in the Best Picture choice as anyone else who’s worked in the entertainment industry? As I said above, AFI gave Tipper Gore the chance to vote on their top 100 movies list. Isn’t that a fair degree worse?
Celine Dion wouldn’t be an academy member since she doesn’t write songs or act in movies (and I don’t think she’s a cinematographer, either, come to think of it.)
Not that I want to say something that comes close to making me sound prejudicial or a snob, but come on, Nicol, are you REALLY suggesting that the average stunt person would be MORE likely to vote for films by Ozu, Fellini or Bergman than would Elton John? I’ve seen John interviewed, he clearly knows a lot more about “high art” than does your average “under the title” film craftsman. I’ve spent a lot of time with film editors; Walter Murch and Dede Allen aside, most of them wouldn’t know Ingmar Bergman from Ingrid Bergman.
Hey, I have an idea. Let’s turn the academy over to the film professors. It’s a real shame that Bela Tarr and Abbas Kiarostami don’t have Oscars yet, don’t you think?
“If it were up to Nicol and I, we’d make everyone take a cineaste test, but how practical is that?”
Actually, that’s not dissimilar to what the Academy DOES do, which is only offer membership to select people every year. What’s the most surefire way to become a member? Win an Oscar — something Elton John has done.
Frankly, if Elton is the most egregious Academy member you can think of, the org must be doing something right.
P.S. I’m pretty sure Fellini and Bergman (and Visconti and Antonioni and Kurosawa) were Academy members, or at least invited to become ones. Does that make you feel better? (Too bad people like Mel Gibson and Kevin Costner are there to cancel out their votes….)
To go back to a question that Dave Poland raised hours ago: ”Would ‘The Constant Gardener’ have made it if Focus was not focused on BBM?” I think the critics set things in motion as soon as ”Brokeback” started winning Best Picture all over the place (L.A. Film Critics, N.Y. Film Critics, etc.). It led the pack of nominations for the Broadcast Film Critics (with 8) and the Golden Globes (with 7). Clearly, ”Brokeback” was getting all the heat. On the other hand, ”Gardener” got no nominations from the Broadcast Film Critics and only 3 from the Globes.
”Brokeback” got 8 Oscar nods; ”Gardener,” 4.
The only place where ”The Constant Gardener” scored any large amount of nominations was at the BAFTAs, where it led with 10, and won up winning only 1: for editing. Not only did it lose the big prize, Best Film, to ”Brokeback,” which scooped up 4 BAFTAs, it even lost Best British Film to the animated ”Wallace & Gromit” movie.
At the end of November, ”The Constant Gardener” topped out at $33 million in the U.S. Currently, ”Brokeback” is at $71 million, 2 weeks before the Oscars. If the critics had lavished all of its prizes on ”The Constant Gardener,” you can bet Focus would’ve put its energies and money there. But as in baseball, you go with the guy with the hot bat, and this season, ”Brokeback” is hitting the home runs.
February 21, 2006
Arts: Arts, Briefly
NYT
Compiled by LAWRENCE VAN GELDER
“Eight Below” takes the weekend box office, Metallica hires a producer and “Brokeback Mountain” sweeps the BAFTA awards in London.
Jefferey Boam’s Doc, yes I have heard of a thing called lyrics. And if you’re suggesting that Elton’s written his own lyrics, then I’d ask if you’ve heard of a thing called Bernie Taupin, his longtime lyricist. Incidentally, Taupin wrote the lyrics for the Brokeback song that won the Golden Globes.
John Williams recycles all his old stuff and is derivative, fine. And everything Elton John’s done is totally innovative? Look, I think Williams is overrated too, but that doesn’t mean Elton John is more talented…even if you think everyone musically creative agrees with you.
I have a friend at the Eastman School of Music. He told me that John Williams was invited there and most the students and a lot of the faculty were outraged. They consider him a real hack, even for film scores. Oh well, depends on who you ask. I still think it’s a pretty good system to let people who win an Oscar have the chance to start voting on the Oscars after that. It’ll be an odd mix, Pedro Almodovar and Charlton Heston, but that’s the way the ball bounces….
Williams is past his prime (the Memoirs score was terrible but so was the film) but if you think he can only do big overblown scores, try listening to a these:
The bus ride scene from Harry Potter and the Prisoner from Azkaban.
The flyover a submerged Manhattan in Minority Report.
Avner’s theme from Munich.
And then let me know if Elton John has had a similarly wide range of musical abilities and we’ll talk. Again, this is not meant as some attack on John, whose work I love love love and who I believe was similarly classically-trained. But I don’t think I’m trivializing him by saying Williams is more talented.
Danny, I appreciate those comments, and I can get where they come from. There are many other composers out there (some who are unfortunately dead) that made more original film scores than John Williams yet got far less attention. But it didn’t mean that Williams wasn’t talented. Some artists are good at mastering the styles of art that came before them and others are good at innovation…a rare artist combines both to make them better. Williams is the former, but that doesn’t make him a lesser composer in my eyes. He’s not even my favorite current composer, but I can’t deny him his chops.
Elton John and John Williams don’t have much in common besides one of their names and Academy membership…”who’s better” is not gonna be a winnable argument either way.
James, I agree. It’s apples to oranges in terms of who’s “better.” But the argument is about talent and to say that Williams has a talent deficit when compared to Elton John is not true.
Williams repeats himself, but so does every film composer in Hollywood. The biggest offender on this count is by far James Horner.
In addition to Palmtree’s examples up there from Azkaban, Munich, and (actually) A.I. I would point to Williams’ scores to Catch Me If You Can and the last two Star Wars movies.
I don’t know much about the Eastman School of Music but I’ve worked with composers from Berklee and elsewhere and Williams is in their pantheon.
Oh, anyway, this whole discussion was about Academy membership. Who really cares? We can bicker all we want about who is or isn’t qualified to be a member, but as someone earlier side, in the end half of the voting gets done by their wives or husbands anyway. These are the Oscars, not a voting bloc that are really into fine art.
Elton John composed and scored Albert Brook’s THE MUSE.
You know who John is voting for, and it ain’t MUNICH.
“I have a friend at the Eastman School of Music. He told me that John Williams was invited there and most the students and a lot of the faculty were outraged.”
I went to a fairly well-known music school. And I understand why the Eastman students might have a problem with Williams–because he writes popular film scores as opposed to contemporary symphonic stuff.
But, trust me, John Williams is not a hack any more than Bernard Herrman (I still think that Herrman’s score for Psycho is the best ever written) or Henry Mancini were hacks. For example, Williams’ score for the original Star Wars movie was a perfect evocation of that film.
This is possibly the most bizarre film discussionI’ve had in a long time.
DannyBoy,
I know you do not want to sound predjudicial or anything like that, but when you make the comments you made about stunt people and editors not knowing anything about film or art as opposed to ‘pop meister’ Elton John, yes you do sound like a snob.
I am only saying that because you introduced that word to the discussion, not I.
As for Elton’s oevre, can we all just admit that when he was in his drunken, drug addled phase in the seventies with ‘Saturday Night’ and ‘Rocket Man’ he was wonderful.
Once he went sobre, implanted all the hair weaves, got bloated and reworked ‘Candle in the Wind’ for Di it was a long slide down a short hill from there.
Now I’m not saying the guy has no talent, but to say he knows a lot about high art is well, to leave a big opening to yourself.
Did he not say Nelly Furtado was a genius? I’m just sayin’.
As for your ‘slam’ of Kevin Costner and Mel Gibson; have you ever seen them interviewed?
Both have an immense knowledge of film history and craft and can speak quite well on it.
Or maybe you just hate Mel’s funny hats?
Yes, Nicol, I have seen Gibson and Costner interviewed, and they both come across as self-satisfied bores who traffic in film clich
“Did he not say Nelly Furtado was a genius?”
I’m pretty sure he didn’t, but what’s your source on that?
Jeff, thanks for the AI call.
Membership into the Academy should not be based on whether you know film history as it’s not as if everyone had the exact same film history touchstones anyways. It should be based on whether you have made notable contributions to the film industry (there is critirea such as three producing credits, etc.). Some people get in through a back door, but Elton John is probably not one of them. He has a history of being involved in films (such as Ken Russell’s Tommy) and he won an Oscar. If you don’t get in the Academy for winning its highest achievement, then that would be strange.
“Williams repeats himself, but so does every film composer in Hollywood. The biggest offender on this count is by far James Horner.”
I saw a bit of The Pelican Brief on cable recently, and the music in the scene where Julia and Denzel are running through the parking garage is amazingly similar to the explosion scene in Apollo 13 (which I have on my iPod and listen to all the time).
Horner is one of the most egregiously derivative composers. Some of the cues in New World were straight lifted from Braveheart. A Beautiful Mind sounds like Sneakers…there have been articles that chronicle his carbon copy work. His scores for things like Clear and Present Danger and The Perfect Storm are indebted to Copland. But the man can still do good work as evidenced in House of Sand and Fog.
I’d also like to defend Mr. Horner. I’d put Glory and Braveheart as some of the best work out there. Sure they seem derivative now because they’ve been featured in a bazillion trailers and commercials, but when I think about those movies the first thing that pops in there is the score. And A Beautiful Mind’s music is amazing, though the film certainly isn’t.
Williams gets flack, but people forget about his score to JFK, which I hold as probably his personal best. and people hate him in the music industry because he’s filthy rich and popular, and they aren’t. Not exactly a intellectual argument, but I think jealousy affects people’s judgement in any profession.
Plus, keep in mind these guys do about three or four films a year for…20 years. I’m sure some repetition will come up, just like actor’s performances and director’s directions and writer’s writings.
Wayman, I think that your right about the composition of the Academy’s voters and their voting tendencies.
There are a lot of films that are distributed during Awards season and I doubt that more than a handful of those films are actually viewed by all of AMPAS’s members.
So they are likely to select people with whom they have interacted, and then hope that those people coincide with some of the best performances.
In any case, my esteem for the Oscars show fell to new lows when they announced that Jessica Alba and Keanu Reeves would be presenting.
The BAFTAs may not have Hollywood’s rep for glamour but at least they care about the craft of acting and made sure that decent actors and not male and female models were on hand to present the UK’s highest film honors.
Reeves runs hot and cold for me in terms of his acting talent, but Alba (though beautiful) is a complete disgrace to the industry.
There is a reason that Jessica Alba is presenting. Because they need the buzz and the ratings. And maybe one non gay male watching it.
Too bad she doesn’t go up in a swimsuit to present.
Don’t worry, Fades — you’ll be watching and that’s, like, fourteen people right there, isn’t it?
Here’s the topic that will infuriate James, but I’m actually being serious.
Don’t you guys think it’s odd that nobody from Brokeback Mountain is presenting? Maybe pair up Heath Ledger and Reese Witherspoon or something.
Is the final list of who’s presenting out there somewhere? Where is it?
you can see the list of presenters so far at http://www.oscarwatch.com (which by the way is a much better Oscar site that another shall-not-be-named site).
Well, I think it’s much better because it supports BBM. There, I said it. Kiss me if you must.
There’s not a final list because they haven’t finished lining up all the presenters yet (to my knowledge).
Out of those who have been announced so far, only Terrence Howard and Charlize Theron are pulling double duty as presenters and nominees.
Frankly, Bucket, it doesn’t strike me as that strange because the Academy tries to pepper its presenters with big stars who would not otherwise be there. Hence Meryl Streep, Jennifer Aniston, Uma Thurman, etc among this year’s thus-far list. Why do they do this? Because — unlike what people outside the industry assume — stars don’t go to the Oscars unless they’re nominated or presenting. The only actors who would show up without that sort of tacit endorsement are C-listers like Louis Gossett Jr., and you’re not going to be seeing him in any fashion roundups.
The Academy can’t necessarily control the glamour quotient of its nominees, but it can raise that if necessary through whom it books as presenters.
King Leer, sadly I think you’re right.
Who watches the Oscar ceremony for presenters anyway?
I think the network is prepared to get some pretty bad ratings for this years show. They don’t have much going right for them this year. No star power from the host. No star power films. A bad combination. You can’t blame the producers for trying to get big stars and hot actresses to be presenters. They have to go all out to get the casual viewer. Plus, as was stated above they need the star power in the actual ceremony. They can’t get showing the crowd and show off Lorenzo Lamas and Lisa Rinna. They need stars whether they are nominated or not.
You’re kidding yourselves. No one is watching this because Jessica Alba is presenting an award or Uma Thurman or Nicole Kidman or Jenna Jameson.
If you’re watching it its because you like seeing what stars are there, who’s wearing what, or you really like some film in it. Hence, why the ratings might not be awful if the BBM contingent shows up in front of their tv’s in force. This is the Gay Super Bowl.
Josh,
But that is exactly why women watch this in droves. And also watch the pre show on E in droves. They like seeing stars and they like seeing stars dressed up. It is more than a movie awards show. It’s part fashion show, part gossip show. All they need is to get cameras into the after parties and E would have an even bigger ratings hit on their hands.
the globes ratings went up. its not the oscars but that should be a good sign for them that they’re not going to be in the toilet.
You are going to see all time low numbers for the Academy Awards. Stars or not. Women watching or not. I just wonder what they’ll blame it on when they spin it.
No one tunes in for presenters, I’ll agree with that. But they might help decide on whether to change the channel or not.
The one thing that might hurt the Oscars is the Olympics. YES, I’m aware the ceremonies will be over by March 5th. But I think the entire country is a little ceremoni-ed out right now. One more reaction shot of someone winning and extreme close-up of those tears…I’m done with it. Let’s just throw the medals up in the air and let them dogfight over it.
I don’t think many things hurt the Awards ratings at all. It’s pretty much foolproof. There has been years with worse movies and star power than this and they still did ok. Women are going to watch no matter what. Even if they’re American Idol, Olympics, and Dancing with the Stars Out.
This was the year they needed to hit a home run with the host. They hit a solid double. I like Stewart but who has ever seen or heard of him? His show is not watched by anyone and all anyone knows about him is that he called a two bit hack host on an even lower rated show a “dick”.
But after all that who were they going to get to host? Whoopi again?
I’ll take my chances with Stewart. At least he has the ability to stretch that double into a triple and become a solid host for years to come.
I don’t think the host has much to do with it now either.
Ratings that is.
Billy Crystal could do it and the ratings would be the same.
Jon Stewart will be so awesome. He’s funny and appeals to both the young people and women demographic.
Jon Stewart + Brokeback Mountain Winning = Best. Oscars Show. Ever.
Jon Stewart appeals to women? Why? Because they all flock to watch the “Daily Show”?
The Oscars can have Moe, Larry and Curly host and it’ll do the same number and be the same long, boring show.
I’m hoping Stewart does a joke about how radical and different last year
He has to make cowboy jokes.
It is like a pre-req of hosting this year.
Forget who’s hosting the Oscars.
Who’s hosting The Razzies? Now that’s a show that should be on TV somewhere. Who hasn’t got to the rights to show that event yet? Imagine that red carpet?
Pauly Shore… step right this way, sir.
Danny: You forgot all those cavalry movies in which Victor McLaglen refers to John Wayne as “colonel darling.”
The big one for me is when Ryan O’Neal kisses his dying friend in Barry Lyndon.
“Kiss me boy”, he asks, or something like that. As the slew of internet trailers has shown (Brokeback to the Future is my favorite) any buddy movie can be manipulated pretty easily.
I read that Oprah wants to do a female version of Brokeback.
With Halley Berry and Charlize Theron as the lovers. No joke.
Surprisingly, I’m not so much into lesbian love. But I’d still watch it.
As long as it’s a shot-for-shot remake, it’ll be golden.
(Actually MONSTER has a lot in common with Brokeback anyway, just with extra murdering).
It does?
Well, maybe not…but Charlize Theron’s character is certainly a tormented lesbian of sorts. Maybe I was thinking more of Boys Don’t Cry.
I skipped a bit of this thread because it was getting sorta silly. However, i did want to comment on some stuff.
“When only one actor of color is Oscar nominated out of 20, that’s pretty pathetic, especially in a season that also included Gong Li, Q’Orianka Kilcher, Alexander Siddig, Taraji Hensen, etc. …
I don’t know what the racial composition of Oscar voters is, but I’ll bet it’s very, very white. Sometimes it seems that Oscar voters nominate their friends first; then they nominate the better-known actors. And sadly, the better-known names are usually NOT the actors of color. ”
If they vote for their friends why wasn’t Don Cheadle nominated? Clearly his nominations at SAG and the Globes were because he was popular and not because he was great (which he wasn’t, he was adaquate, but nothing spectacular). People like Hensen, Kilcher and Siddig were never in the running. And Li was a casualty of her awful film. Ziyi Zhang was probably the sixth or seventh placed. I personally thought Thandie Newton would get a nomination but she didn’t because supporting actress was the most crowded category this year.
“If you go to most BBM screenings now, they’re positively filled with old people. I don’t think this is as radical a concept as people are assuming.”
I saw BBM on the third day it was out and the cinema was 80% seniors. Which was sorta crazy, but nice.
On the membership issue, I think someone like Elton John is far more deserving than someone like Will Ferrell. Like… what has he done that is indicitive of his deservedness in AMPAS.
Boys Don’t Cry probably has more in common with BBM than Monster, but even that is a stretch. It’s like saying TransAmerica and Road Trip are similar because they both involve road trips. It’s like something you’d see at the bottom of a movie’s IMDb page.
If you like Transamerica, see ROAD TRIP
Fact:
If you like Brokeback Mountain, see American Beauty… (current suggestion on BBMs IMDb page)
Actors of color get the hard shaft not because of racism but because they’re is just a big dearth of roles for minorities.
How many roles are color blind? Maybe three or four black actors can do it. How many Spanish or Asian actors ever get a role thats not a Spanish or Asian role?
Like Spike Lee said. They need to get in positions of power before any real changes can take place. That means exec positions. Studio jobs. The works.
Isn’t Theron a lesbian in “Monster”? She deserved all her awards for looking like she did in that movie.
Do you ever go to the movies? Old people dominate attendance. Go during a matinee during the week one day. It’s like a whole new world there.
“Like Spike Lee said. They need to get in positions of power before any real changes can take place. That means exec positions. Studio jobs. The works.”
At least half the studios are now run by women. So how come we don’t have more and better roles for women?
Because Women hate Women. (I’m only half-kidding on that one)
Because they didn’t get those jobs fighting a cause, they got it to put asses in seats and that’s what their top priority is, not to give out more fledged out characters to deserving actresses.
Because women in studio jobs want to KEEP those studio jobs. And women pics don’t make money. Unless they star Julia Roberts or Dakota Fanning.
Happy 12th Dakota!
KamikazeCamelV2.0, to answer your question: ”If they vote for their friends, why wasn’t Don Cheadle nominated?” Actually, he was Oscar-nominated last year for ”Hotel Rwanda.” By the way, I noted that Cheadle was nominated by SAG and BAFTA (not the Globes). If you’re willing to believe that Cheadle’s popularity got him his SAG nomination, what about BAFTA? Is he really that popular with 6,000 Brits, too?
If Gong Li and Zhang Ziyi are ”casualties” of ”Memoirs of a Geisha,” why did the Academy voters manage to nominate it in 6 other categories? Again, Ziyi got BAFTA, SAG and Golden Globes nominations; Keira Knightley got a Globe nomination, but was shut out by SAG and her own countrymen and countrywomen at BAFTA. Yet Keira gets the Oscar nomination, and not Ziyi. In its 78-year history, the Academy has NEVER nominated an Asian for Best Actress (or Best Actor).
The point I’m making is this: There were plenty of Oscar-caliber performances this year from actors of color. To me, it’s disappointing that the Academy chose to recognize only one of them.
My point and Spike’s is that they’re not enough minorities in power positions. I don’t know about women. But from my understanding is that women get 10 acting noms. Same as men. But theres no separate category for black, asian, spanish, etc.
If there were more minorities in power positions maybe things would be better and we wouldn’t see 1 minority nominated out of 20.
It’s really a disgrace. It’s not like there are not award worthy performers either.
Wayman, your theory is especially interesting given Keener’s nomination. As good of an actress as she is, she didn’t have as much to do as Gong Li in Memoirs or Thandie Newton in Crash. It boggles the mind except that it may be people believing that Hoffman’s work wouldn’t have been so great had he not been well-supported.
Where was Clifton Collins’ nomination?
It’s like Hoffman did it alone or something. Another blatant example of bias. Just because hes not as well known.
What about William Hurt’s 10 minutes of screen time or Collins?
What are you worried about? They’re going to give “Crash” the Oscar and show the world how much they really care about racism.
Then they’re off the hook for a few more years.
As far as I can think, the only Spanish actor in Hollywood is Antonio Banderas. So no wonder Spanish actors aren’t more represented.
Isn’t the ‘dearth of roles for minorities’ a subtle form of racism right there?
Hispanic leading men? Banderas for one. Benicio Del Toro for two. I guess you can say Javier Bardem now. Gael Garcia Bernal is going to be a big star eventually. Just a matter of time for him.
You’re right, Javier Bardem is also from Spain.
Spanish actors always get cast as the heavy or a bad guy or a drug dealer or a barrio boy. They’re never cast in a lead. Or even a second babana. They’re fighting what black actors fought in the 80’s. Before Eddie Murphy broke and they realized that blacks can be box office too. Now you got Will Smith, Denzel Washington, Don Cheadle, and soon to be Terrence Howard. Guys who can star in anything and get movies made.
Don’t forget Freddy Prinze, Jr. He’s a big star.
Puke.
Bardem and Del toro may be two of the best actors working today. So much range.
Bardem is playing Pablo Escobar in KILLING PABLO. Going to be directed by Joe Carnahan. Of NARC fame.
Let me be more explicit:
the term you want to use is “Latino” or “Hispanic”. Freddy Prinze Jr, Benecio Del Toro, and Gael Garcia Bernal are not from Spain; hence they are not Spanish I suspect that Freddy Prinze Jr. doesn’t even speak Spanish.
Prinze Sr was Puerto Rican. Prinze Jr is technically American since he was born LA. He does have Spanish roots since he was raised in Puerto Rico and he does embrace his Puerto Rican roots. He can speak the language fluently.
To be all encompassing one could and should use Hispanic or Latino. Spanish is a little too vague since it doesn’t incorporate many areas and you would easily offend someone on the street that you call Spanish if they’re say Dominican. Not a good thing to do. They take it as an insult.
My favorite Latino actors are Luiz Guzman, Del Toro, and as a man I have to say Jennifer Lopez.
Why hasn’t anyone mentioned Penelope Cruz? She’s Spanish and so hot. I’m gay but when I saw her in Woman on Top, I was like: Woh!
Salma Hayek too. My new fav is Miss Rosario Dawson. Something earthy about her. If I knew what that meant she would even be bigger to me. But I dig her.
Someone to keep an eye on in the future. Freddy Rodriguez. He was in “Six Feet Under” on HBO. He’s very good.
For the record, Clifton Collins Jr. is Latino. Though that’s his given name, at one point, he billed himself as Clifton Gonzalez-Gonzalez, in tribute to his grandfather, Pedro Gonzalez-Gonzalez, an actor who actually appeared in some John Wayne movies many years ago.
I truly believe that Catherine Keener got her nomination because she’s better known. Plus, she’s a former Oscar nominee. I’m not saying she’s not good in ”Capote,” but her role just wasn’t that expansive. I agree with Palmtree. That nomination should’ve gone to Gong Li or Thandie Newton, who were more pivotal in their films. Conversely, it’s arguable that Collins, who actually has a much more pivotal role than Keener in ”Capote,” got passed over because he wasn’t as well-known as … say, William Hurt.
Awards are popularity contests to some degree; the better-known you are, the better your chances.
okay my comment about who I thought was SS’s curly haired boy … was totally bonkers. I found the pic … he is curly haired and SS looks intensely somewhat mad at him …. and that is why I thought it might be Amy Irving’s boy with him. And I thought he was tall and good looking and for some reason just the mention again of Jake being so sexy made me think of this one. Who I thought was the son of the all powerful. And then I just reflected about how hard it is for the sons of really famous successful men in Hollywood. So many of them left early. My wish is that I never said anything and that this boy grows up with no shadow to have to tackle. And I should have never contested jake’s sexiness.