MCN Blogs
David Poland

By David Poland

BYO Oscar

byob oscar 2018

Be Sociable, Share!

207 Responses to “BYO Oscar”

  1. spassky says:

    Lesley Manville!!!!!!!!!!!!

  2. MarkVH says:

    Glad we can finally put all the Wonder Woman bullshit to bed.

    Otherwise, this seems like a good list. I liked but didn’t love Get Out so am kind of baffled by it getting elevated to (near) the front of the pack, but I’m at peace with being the minority opinion on that. Haven’t seen Shape of Water but am happy for Del Toro, who is and has been one of the good guys. Wish Dunkirk was getting more front-runner status, as it’s my favorite movie of the year and, to me, Nolan’s best film. Also haven’t seen Phantom Thread, but am really heartened to see its positive showing (more PTA praise is never a bad thing).

    In all it seems like a very strong group of nominees. Looks like I’ve got some catching up to do.

  3. PcChongor says:

    The Christopher Plummer nom baffles me, but I didn’t mind the rest. “Strong Island” getting a doc nom was also exciting to see. The fact it’s already been on Netflix for months now is both heartening and depressing because no one’s seen it, but at least there’s a very easy way to do so. And motherfucking “Boss Baby”? I would’ve rather seen “The Emoji Movie” nominated just to show how fucked the Best Animated Film category currently is.

  4. iothereturned says:

    Wonder woman bs? It’s by far, the most important film released last year. I don’t care what you think about it. That’s it. Guess what? It not getting any recognition, outside of Gal being a presenter, is bs. This is why the Academy fails, and keeps on failing. No one cares about any of these films on a large scale, but like David likes to say, “Niche!”

    Now, good for TPT fans, and good for the Academy. They lost Harvey, but now they have Jeff Bezos. The richest man, on paper, on earth, and look at all the noms. We need to accept, that Bezos is the new Weinstein, and the next ten to twenty years, will feature a lot of Amazon Studio films getting noms. I look forward to their version of the Reader getting noms. That’s going to be, so great.

  5. movieman says:

    Delighted by the surprise–and richly deserved–Best Picture, Director and Supporting Actress nominations for “Phantom Thread.”
    It was a very good year for Focus (including those tech nods for “Victoria + Abdul”).
    No idea how/why “Ferdinand” and “The Boss Baby” received nods.
    Did Fox bribe the accountants at Price Waterhouse?
    Would it have really been so terrible to have just three nominees in the Best Animated Film category?
    Have to confess to being pleasantly surprised that the overrated “Jane” (which had been the frontrunner until now) didn’t receive a Best Documentary nomination. Too bad most of the nominees (w/ the exception of the wonderful “Faces Places”) are so granola-dull.
    Ironic that Steve James–famously robbed of a nomination for “Hoop Dreams”–would finally get nominated for the so-so “Abacus.” (This is his first nod, correct?)

  6. spassky says:

    @io: Sorry, what is TPT?

  7. spassky says:

    He got an editing nom for Hoop Dreams, but The Interruptors was disqualified I believe because it aired on PBS too early or something…?

    Happy for “On Body and Soul” getting a nom… not because I thought it was great, but it’s such a strange film for a nomination. “In the Fade’ was so horribly overrated.

    RIP “Good Time” — really think Pattinson deserved a nom. and Stuhlbarg. God damn he is a gift and we don’t appreciate him.

  8. YancySkancy says:

    I like Mary J. Blige and think her Best Song nod is well deserved. But I haven’t understood the attention for her acting in Mudbound. She’s not bad, but it’s not a particularly noteworthy role, and as an actress she’s really just a promising amateur at this point. Would have much rather seen Tiffany Haddish (who is more a comedian than an actress, but really popped on screen) or Holly Hunter, by far.

  9. MarkVH says:

    “…by far, the most important film released last year” derka derka derka. Whatever. It’s a three-star comic book movie with a smashing lead performance. I wouldn’t have minded Gadot getting nommed but couldn’t care less that it was shut out and it appears nobody else does either.

    Also I find it sort of ironic that I’m super excited about Nolan finally getting a nomination and nobody else is after years of me naysaying people who thought he should be nommed for what I’ve felt were lesser movies (Dark Knight, Inception). This one feels right and justified to me and nobody seems to care. Oh well.

  10. PTA Fluffer says:

    PTA Fluffer is a happy boy today.

  11. iothereturned says:

    Yes. You are celebrating the flawed thinking of the Academy. “You make two movies, that make almost two billion dollars in a different time with box office, and they are amazingly made films. No nom for you! You make the ’24’ version of a war film? Here’s your nom!” Again, he should have been nominated for Memento. He’s one of the greatest directors to have ever worked. His nom is nowhere near as shocking, as it taking til 2018 to nominate a female cinematographer. Shameful.

    Mark, why would anyone get upset, when we all know how the Academy works? It’s far from a three star movie, but please continue to defecate all over a movie that means more than any film nominated today. It’s really mra of you.

  12. movieman says:

    Spassky: I like Stuhlbarg, too, and feel the same way about Tracy Letts. He gave the only “Post” performance that merited recognition. (Of course, he could have been nominated for “Lady Bird” as well.)

    I was pissed that my favorite performance of 2017 (Jessica Chastain in “Molly’s Game”) was overlooked…and that Meryl got nominated AGAIN. Mildly surprising that “The Post” didn’t fare better overall. It certainly felt like a movie that would have played beautifully w/ “Liberal Hollywood Elite” voters. Not that there’s anything wrong with that besides the fact that the movie itself isn’t great.

    Is it politically incorrect to suggest that Octavia Spencer has been nominated three times for what’s essentially the same performance? I like her and all, but there’s not a whole lot of tonal variety in her “Help,” “Hidden Figures” or “Shape of Water” perfs. (And she won for “The Help.”)

    Guess I forgot that James received an editing nomination. All I remember from 1994 was the stink Ebert & Siskel made over “Hoop Dreams” not receiving a documentary nod.

  13. Stella's Boy says:

    Wish Mudbound had been nominated for BP. I like it more than all of the BP nominees I’ve seen (3BB, Dunkirk, The Post, The Shape of Water, Get Out). Really need to see Lady Bird and Phantom Thread ASAP. I hope anything but 3BB wins BP.

  14. palmtree says:

    The one nomination that really stood out to me was Kobe Bryant for short animation. Apparently, the man can do no wrong.

  15. palmtree says:

    And yes, a lack of nomination for WW does suck.

  16. Hcat says:

    Sorry IO, I am misunderstanding, I only see one Amazon nomination. Getting smoked by NEON and tying STX while their film made more than Tonya and Molly combined does not point to future domination. They had a weaker showing than last year.

    And while it is a sorry state of the industry that HALF of the major studios failed to get a contender in the best picture race, bully for Uni and Fox for getting three each. It is great to see Phantom Thread squeeze in with such a presence. I hope they all get some decent box office boosts.

  17. PcChongor says:

    Have to disagree about the documentary nominees. As much as I’d like to see Varda scoop up a for realzies Oscar, “Faces Places” was mostly silly pap, and I couldn’t stand JR and his dumb off-brand bag cereal Godard schtick.

    And Jonny Greenwood finally getting a Best Soundtrack nomination makes me feels all warm and fuzzy inside.

  18. Hcat says:

    I am sort of astounded that this is Nolan’s first nomination, I would have thought that Inception would have garnered a nod, but apparently The Fighter was better directed than Nolan’s wonderful juggling act.

    I was less impressed with Logan than everyone else was, but anything that results in Scott Frank adding Academy Award nominee to his resume makes me happy.

    And as for predictions, Costume Design is pretty much locked up right?

  19. iothereturned says:

    Hc, never forget that Dave has Academy member friends. Who told him, to a man and woman, that Inception was too loud. It was on that day, that I checked out. The Artist just added to the not caring, because The Artist. Nevertheless, it is shocking it took them nine years to give him the nom he earned with TDK.

    Also, you folks don’t need to scream “IO.” I’m not even doing that loud stuff anymore. What I meant about the noms though, is the Shape of Water leads the way. It’s not always about winning, when you have the most noms.

    We should though, put our predictions in there, and see how obvious these are, because they seem pretty obvious right now.

  20. arisp says:

    Wonder Woman is a comic book movie – a mid-level one at that – which basically an algorithm can create in a nanosecond. Let’s stop pretending it’s anything of note.

  21. Night Owl says:

    That Best Director category is pretty fantastic.

    They should just give both Sound Oscars to Dunkirk now and hopefully Blade Runner can take a well deserved FX Oscar (Kong?! Yuck).

    Would rather have seen Wonder Woman’s score over the annual “we have to nominate John Williams for something” nod. Last Jedi score was fine, but the only strong reaction I recall was from cues from his previous scores.

    And when ever the Academy gets too self-righteous let us all remember Academy Award nominee Boss Baby. Hahahahahaha!

  22. palmtree says:

    Wonder Woman and Thor both had wonderful scores. However, Greenwood is the real hero of that category this year.

    Director category is excellent. (Sorry McDonagh. I mean I love the plays, but…)

  23. iothereturned says:

    Arisp, that algorithm makes Oscar movies all the time. Please: continue to think these films matter. When really? They will be lucky to be a part of a TCM Oscar Playlist in 15 years. The level of your arrogant snobbery is abhorrent, but luckily the resistance doesn’t need you. It has Wonder Woman.

  24. Stella's Boy says:

    I liked Wonder Woman as much or more than the BP nominees I’ve seen. Would have been totally fine with a BP nomination for it.

  25. palmtree says:

    Logan got a nomination this year…for Best Algorithm!

  26. YancySkancy says:

    Movieman: Even without yet seeing Hidden Figures or The Shape of Water, I’m inclined to agree about Spencer. She always gets decent reviews, but other than The Help is rarely touted for awards — until nomination time, when she suddenly makes all the prognosticators’ short lists. I thought she had been nominated for Fruitvale Station too, but I guess I misremembered. Seems like most of the reviews I read of Hidden Figures had more praise for Taraji P. Henson and Janelle Monae than Spencer. Oh well, good on her for setting the record for most Sup. Actress nominations for an African-American. I look forward to seeing Hidden Figures (in my HBO Now queue) and The Shape of Water (probably when it comes to iTunes or some such).

  27. Stella's Boy says:

    I haven’t seen Hidden Figures or The Help, but Spencer is excellent in The Shape of Water.

  28. iothereturned says:

    Palm, you’re good people.

  29. Brainy Pirate says:

    When they announced Denzel, I actually said “really??” out loud. Same when they read Meryl’s name. How did they get enough #1 votes to stay in the race? Are they really that great in those films, or are they just default pics for many people at this point?

  30. Part IV says:

    Would like to have seen The Lost City of Z get something…anything, but wasn’t expecting it.

  31. movieman says:

    SB- And Spencer was excellent in “Hidden Figures” and “The Help,” too.
    Just saying they’re essentially the same “excellent performance.”
    If you didn’t know better, you’d swear she was playing the same character in each of those films.
    Which, I suppose, she is.
    She’s playing “Octavia Spencer.”
    I agree w/ Yancy re: Monae and even Henson meriting a “Figures” nomination more.
    Spencer is becoming the default female “African-American Nominee:” the new Meryl Streep, lol.
    I guess that’s progress of a kind, but still.

  32. Hcat says:

    Haven’t seen the Help, but loved Hidden Figures, and Spencer was great in it. Were the roles really that similar? I would have imagined her character would have been more put upon in Help, while she was driven and carving out a place in the world in Hidden Figures. All three were excellent though Spencer probably the easiest push given people being familiar with her.

  33. Stella's Boy says:

    Saying she is playing herself in all three movies seems like it is really diminishing her work. It’s hard to imagine she gave the exact same performance in all three, but I’ll reserve judgment since I haven’t seen The Help or Hidden Figures.

  34. Bender says:

    While Roman J wasn’t a great movie, Denzel’s performance was excellent. I have no problem with the nomination.
    I would have appreciated more love for The Florida Project. I’m disappointed Dafoe won’t win.

  35. Bulldog68 says:

    No one else talked about so I guess it’s really just me but I thought James McAvoy’s performance in Split was worthy. Can’t say who I’d take out as I haven’t seen a few of the pics, but maybe nominating performances from both Get Out and Split was too much horror for one Oscar show.

  36. Dr Wally Rises says:

    It’s kind of weird how, latterly, Spielberg seems to have become a perennial Oscar bridesmaid. Munich, War Horse, Bridge of Spies and now The Post all got their BP nomination but were never really in the box seat as a winner. And Stevie not being nominated means that he and Marty are still tied as the most nominated living director, is that right? If so then there’s something neatly symmetrical about that, the two most important living filmmakers being inextricably bound together.

  37. Glamourboy says:

    A few random thoughts….

    Seems like there wasn’t enough love for Call Me By Your Name as it didn’t get either supporting actors (Armie Hammer was a contender) and it didn’t get much below the line besides music/song.

    I actually think Get Out has a real shot to do a surprise Best Picture win…it has director, actor and picture nominations…and it is the one movie that seems to be widely loved. I would have loved a Catherine Keener nomination but I didn’t expect it as it never got traction. But she was excellent in it.

    Octavia Spencer is an excellent character and she deserves every award and nomination she gets–she has that amazing ability to make you care about the story and her predicament..she carries a great deal of likeability…you end of rooting for her. She does it so well that it can seem that it is the same performance, but it is not.

    Glad Margot Robbie got a nomination but I wish she’d be taken more seriously. It is a once-in-a-lifetime, star-making role and she just beats the shit out of it. It is a much bigger performance than any of the other nominated roles….the moment where (SPOILER?) she turns to the audience and accuses of them of being abusers…is one of the moments from this year’s films that I will never forget.

  38. iothereturned says:

    It grinds my gears, when only one part of a duo gets the Oscar nom. Armie Hammer should have gotten a nom. It’s not like Chalamet’s performance works without Hammer. It’s just rewards logic, that annoys the crap out of me.

  39. Bulldog68 says:

    IO, I’ve felt that way about Tom Cruise in Rain Man. Though it would severely limit others from getting nominated if we were to view these things as coming in pairs.

  40. movieman says:

    You clearly see more Spencer gears churning than I do, Glamour.
    I like her (I really do: how can you not? she’s one of the most appealing screen performers working in film today), but it does seem like the same basic characterization/performance every time she’s Oscar-nominated.

    Agree that Chalamet’s performance doesn’t exist in a vacuum. Hammer and Stuhlbarg should have both been nominated. I’m thinking there may not be a whole lot of passion in Oscar Land for “Call Me”….?
    Could it be a backlash to the underage sex theme commented on in this blog several months ago?

    Would have loved to seen some award nominations thrown at “Hostiles.”
    A Bale or even just cinematography nod would have been great.
    I bet SPC, Searchlight, Focus or–in a former life–TWC could have campaigned it to some significant nods. Clearly it’s a film that works w/ audiences. I wonder how many Oscar voters even bothered watching their screener.

  41. lockedcut says:

    Dr. Wally, the same as it ever was for Spielberg, the academy doesn’t always nominate him, Jaws, Color Purple, Empire of the Sun also all missed, and his CE3K nomination was arguably only in backlash response to the jaws snub. Later on he missed for AI, Minority Report and Catch Me if you can.

    Spielberg was disliked by the awards circuit until he made Schindler’s list, and since Schindler’s list he’s been moderately to significantly disdained as well.

    That is to say, it’s pretty much the same as it ever was for Spielberg

  42. Bulldog68 says:

    Also, is there some rule saying there must be five nominees? If there were not five animated movies that were Oscar worthy why nominate stuff that clearly isn’t to make up numbers? I’m looking at you Boss Baby.

  43. sam says:

    This is Octavia Spencer’s third nomination in a movie that has also been nominated for Best Picture. Del Torro says that he wrote the part for her. With that in mind, it seems like she is as good a bet as any to cast in your movie and pay her what she’s worth.

  44. Hcat says:

    The animated nominees depend on the number of animated films are released in the year. I believe when it began at the beginning of the century they would have 3 nominees if there were under 12 entries and 5 noms for over that. So while shit like hoodwinked aren’t nominated their presence in the marketplace ensures that some other random cartoon gets to claim an Oscar nomination.

    One of the main reasons I think the category is a crock, how many movies were eligible for best picture or documentary? Foreign films go against an entry from half the countries in the world, while animation has to duke it out between 25-30 titles, two-thirds of which are barely released. These companies must love to produce films in a field where they have a one in five chance at being nominated for an Oscar.

  45. iothereturned says:

    BD, it’s a special situation, and CMBYN is like Rain Man. One performance doesn’t work without the other, and it’s not always like this. When you have situations like this though? They totally need to reward the other performer with a nod. It’s going to be weird, when someone watches CMBYN in the future, sees Chalamet had a nom, but Hammer was left out. It’s the same thing with Rain Man. How did Tom Cruise, who has the harder part in that film, not get a nom? Jesus. That films portrayal of autism is… oy.

    They at least got the Piano noms right back in the day.

  46. Schmoop says:

    Octavia Spencer gave very different performances which hit very different notes. The exuberance and irreverence and wit of a maid The Help is in stark contrast to the stoic drive of a computer scientist in Hidden Figures. I haven’t yet seen Shape of Water but the reviews say suggest its similarly a very different characterization.

    It’s all black women in the 1960s, when they were given very few chances and society shat on them constantly. They’re fighting the same fight, they look like Octavia Spencer, but they’re certainly different performances.

    Spencer is still the only black woman to receive an Oscar nomination after winning – and now she’s been nominated twice.

  47. leahnz says:


  48. leahnz says:

    having said that go rachel morrison, breaking the glass lens, get it (tho i suspect deakins may finally get his salvo; at this point i wonder if he secretly hopes he never does ‘win’ since “iconic DoP, nominated for 87 Oscars but never taking home the gold statue” is somehow more memorable and hard-out than the alternative at this point)

  49. cadavra says:

    Worst snubs: Chastain, Hanks, Boseman, McDonagh (for Director), Spielberg–and WIND RIVER in any category.

    This is what happens when you let millennials start flooding the membership: tons of nominations for an extended “Twilight Zone” episode and a shoddy home movie full of people you’d leave Sacramento to avoid, and snubs for “grown-up” movies like THE POST, MOLLY’S GAME, WIND RIVER and, arguably, THE GREATEST SHOWMAN.

    Question: Does anyone see a scenario where BILLBOARDS wins Picture while Guillermo gets Director?

  50. Lynch Van Sant says:

    Glad that the Weinstein era of getting movies nominated through campaigning rather than quality is over…The Postman, Shakespeare In Love, Chocolat, Finding Neverland, The Queen, The Reader, The King’s Speech, The Artist…no-one looks back thinking those are best 5 of the year.

    Sadly, after Academy members snubbed Avatar for best picture and the mediocrities of The King’s Speech, The Artist and Argo, I stopped caring. It’s nice if something I like is nominated but they’re so obviously not voting for quality, that it’s maddening.

    Get Out is not one of the best movies of the year, sorry. I love horror movies and it comes off as a worse version of Stepford Wives. Yes it uses satire as well but it’s only an ok time waster. That they’re forcing nominations to be inclusive of minorities is a sad state of affairs.

  51. arisp says:

    The Post was color by numbers. Let’s be honest.

    And why is IO back?

  52. PcChongor says:

    If you didn’t get “Get Out,” you probably didn’t see it with a predominantly black audience. That’s not meant to be patronizing so much as it is just a basic fact.

    Would’ve also loved to see “Twin Peaks: The Return” as the sole nominee in every category. The world knows not justice.

  53. Arisp says:

    Wormwood for best doc too – by far

  54. leahnz says:

    the fact that james mcavoy’s rather astounding perf never had a snowball’s chance in hell of getting a nom – because of the type of movie it’s in – is a good example of the homogeny of the ‘awards season’, wherein pretty much all the same batch of movies that come through the strainer produce all the nominees in all the major categories, it’s just so freakin predictable and boring.

    pattinson in ‘good time’ may be the male perf that sticks with me the most of any this year, though i still think about kaluuya’s ‘chris’.
    i remember someone saying (anna biller maybe?) that she wished ‘get out’ had a less conventional and more subversive and politically potent climax better in keeping with the subtext of the preceding narrative, but i wonder, if it had, would it still be where it is with this acceptance from the awards bodies? i still think calling it a horror movie is weird, it’s much more a psychological thriller with some horror – and comedic – elements, but the fact that a genre movie is being recognised at all is something of note, anyway

  55. Stella's Boy says:

    The Post and Molly’s Game are not very good. I wouldn’t put either one in my top 25 for 2017. Same with 3BB for that matter. Get Out is vastly superior to all three. Not even close. And McDonagh wasn’t snubbed. I did love Wind River though. One of my favorites of the year.

  56. leahnz says:

    i was going to say earlier i’m a bit surprised that ‘wind river’ isn’t in this year’s awards mix more, guess they didn’t spend enough cash and do the ‘dog-n-pony show’ circuit or somesuch

  57. Bulldog68 says:

    Leahnz I was completely taken with his performance and maybe because there was more of a groundswell for Get Out, the studio decided to not push this performance as hard. If you didn’t believe McAvoy’s character, the entire movie absolutely fails.

  58. Sideshow Bill says:

    Also bummed about the lack of Wind River love but i didn’t expect it to get anything.

    But I am very pleased that PTA and Phantom Thread squeezed in, even though I haven’t seen it. I know that doesn’t make for a sound argument but I love PTA to death, although not to the point of being a PTA Fluffer 😉

    IO saying that Wonder Woman was “the most important film” released last year is utterly baffling, laughable and calls into question everything he’s ever said. I liked WW. Enjoyed it. It’s fun. It’s great for girls. But “most important”? Good lord, man. Get a grip. Even though I was underwhelmed by it, Get Out is probably far more important.

    I mean, I love comic books, too, and consider them to be art and capable of producing wonderful things. The best thing I read last year was the graphic novel My Favorite Thing Is Monsters. I fucking loved it and it was powerful and moving and profound. I love superheroes and I love superhero movies. But I’ve never picked one for best of the year. they rarely make my top ten. There’s more to life. I don’t know. Just get a grip.

  59. Geoff says:

    Man I don’t quite know what to make of ‘Three Billboards overall as a movie but I have no issue with any of the acting nods it received.

    The Shape of Water deserves all of the love it is getting and yes, Spencer is deserving as she pretty much grounds the story as much as any one….just like she did in Snowpiercer and Hidden Figures.

    And yes Stuhlbarg is just the ultimate utility player at this point – I still have to see Call Me By Your Name but he’s been in great in Arrival, Pawn Sacrifice, Steve Jobs…..was he nominated for A Serious Man??

    Wonder Woman not getting a Best Picture is a disappointment and for those on this blog or anywhere else for this matter going on about how “it’s just a comic book movie…..standard origin story….doesn’t break any new narrative ground…” um…..WHAT Oscars have YOU guys been watching over the past several….I was going to say YEARS….but fuck it….DECADES pretty much since the ’80’s?!?! Some of these were great films but come on now….Out of Africa, Driving Miss Daisy, Dances with Wolves, Braveheart, Forrest Gump, Million Dollar Baby, The King’s Speech, Chicago, A Beautiful Mind, Gandhi, On Golden Pond……you wanna tell me how the vast majority of Best Picture nominees, even winners broke narrative ground? Said this on another blog a little ways ago, but I would EASILY put Wonder Woman alongside that crew from a quality or narrative standpoint.

    Not only was it an important movie for it existence and success but sorry, the film made World War fucking I palatable for a family audience, juggling that with a fantastical mythical island….balancing the futility of war with the fish-out-of-water My Fair Lady stuff, honestly major kudos for Patty Jenkins and writer Alan Heinberg for threading THAT needle! But fine….it’s a comic book movie….

    But no technical nominations either?? Yes the visual effects were wonky but the sets, costumes, sound design, score…..just bizarre that it got completely shut out while the gaudy shit-show that was Beauty & the Beast seemed to rack up technical nods.

    Beyond that, happy to see Get Out receive recognition – probably the first genuine horror film to receive a Best Picture nod since…..Pan’s Labyrinth, no probably The Sixth Sense. Yeah Nolan’s been deserving for years but fuck it, Dunkirk’s an achievement in itself and I can gladly say that UNLIKE every other Nolan film since Batman Begins, at least it doesn’t go on 20 minutes longer than it should. (Still loved Inception regardless)

    The female acting categories are the most competitive I can remember in years…..I honestly don’t know who I would choose between Janney and Metcalf, same between Robbie and Hawkins. I gotta ask but how long has it been since the Academy gave the Best Actress award to an actress in her ’30’s?? Seems like they usually go ’20’s sometime’s over 40, rarely in between…..

  60. iothereturned says:

    Bill, you not understanding what that film meant to people, is baffling, laughable, and demonstrates how really out of it you are. There is no film last year that represents standing up to what trump symbolizes, than Wonder Woman. The fact that you decided to make it a personal attack, and not spending the same amount googling articles about this film’s importance. Demonstrates real lack of grasping anything that’s been happening with Wonder Woman.

    There are articles about Gal’s thigh jiggle and how it made women stand up and cheer, because the character was being portrayed by a real woman. I can go on, I couldn’t expect anything less from a cis gendered heteronormative white male. Good job, Bill. Great s-post, that keeps on going!

    What’s absolutely exacerbating about your pointless diarrhea, is that you have never once read me state Wonder Woman is “the year’s best film.” It’s one of the best, they had a nomination spot available, but didn’t throw it in there. Personally, I haven’t seen all of these films yet; but I really enjoyed Last Flag Flying. You just wanted to attack me, then why doesn’t mister man attack my gay brother? Huh? You are so important and man. Good for girls? Garbage.

    Moments after whomever up there was belittling Wonder Woman. My brother hopped on Messenger and said, “But nothing for Wonder Woman is… ” Wonder Woman means a lot to the gay community as well, but you wouldn’t know this. You think Wonder Woman is just a stupid comic book movie. Well, you are just an ignorant cinema snob. Who must have forgotten, that TDK is totally better than three of the best Oscar picture nominees for 2008. Why do we have an expanded category list? TDK. Please: keep waxing poetic about how smart and clever you are, and your profundity. It’s so masculine, and such trash.

    Geoff, I could hug you, but I wouldn’t. Why? You’re terrible :P!

  61. leahnz says:

    “but I have no issue with any of the acting nods it received.”

    (re 3BB) i do, in a bad way.
    imagine watching the plethora of movies this year and then when sitting down to choose the very finest supporting performances you pick woody harrelson’s perfectly fine, one-note, ‘look, it’s woody harrelson doing woody harrelson as a police man’ turn over, say, algee smith in ‘detroit’ or benny safdie in ‘good time’. that’s some next level bullshit

  62. iothereturned says:

    And guess what? If some of you jamokes get on here, and post your nonsense about Black Panther, and respond to it like it’s just, “a comic book movie.” Well, guess what? It’s not. It’s just as big as a deal as Wonder Woman last year, and the problem I have had with the Academy for years now… is they never want to nominate the transcendent. They like their niche, they enjoy their niche, and they refuse to leave their niche. That’s the problem, because their niche is a thin sliver on the thread of cinema.

    It’s not about dollars. It’s about what connects with the audience. The Phantom Thread, didn’t even connect with a fraction of these other films, but there it is. Why is it there? Anapurina played the game, and played it well. Guess what? That’s great for the greased palms, but it’s not great for connecting with a large audience at home. I don’t even watch the ceremony anymore, because what’s the point? There’s no surprise, they cannot even sell the Best Picture nominees with video packages, and the Academy loves to believe presenting is a great way to give respect to actors in films they didn’t nominate. Who cares about it? I find it funny that I am being attacked for pointing this out, because I dare to want a transcendent movie to be at least represented at the Award Show. I am glad SW has some noms, and hope they finally get an FX win. It’s been too long.

    Now, if Black Panther is some amazing stuff, like Marvel Studios feels it is. If it really connects with the audience, and it’s box office shows it. Get ready for some people to be wondering this time next year, “Why was Black Panther forgotten?” If they can remember Get Out. They can remember T’Challa. Especially if T’Challa’s movie is a huge event for a minority in this country.

    But it’s just a comic book movie. Sure… it’s not.

    ETA: Or Armie Hammer, Leah. You’re on point.

  63. leahnz says:

    i still haven’t seen ‘call me by your name’ but remedying that very soon, seems like a lot of peeps think armie did the business so yes, armie and a shitload of other really good supporting perfs in 2017 that eclipse sheriff woody (a perfectly fine performance but not revelatory)

  64. Pete B. says:

    Pretty sure there were plenty of cis gendered heteronormative males (of all races) who enjoyed Gal’s thigh jiggle too. Just saying.

  65. YancySkancy says:

    Lynch Van Sant: I loved The Postman (Il Postino), and it would likely have made my top five that year.

  66. movieman says:

    Question: Does anyone see a scenario where BILLBOARDS wins Picture while Guillermo gets Director?

    Absolutely, Cad.

    And I can see “Shape” and “3BB” splitting the Searchlight vote and “Get Out” or “Dunkirk” sneaking in.
    I’m old enough to remember 1981 when the heavyweight favorites (“Reds” and “On Golden Pond”) split the vote between New and Old Hollywood.
    “Chariots of Fire” pulled a dramatic upset that year.
    And with the new voting rules and voter demographics, anything truly can happen. Which is why picture/director are no longer in lockstep w/ each other.

  67. Mike says:

    Question: Does anyone see a scenario where BILLBOARDS wins Picture while Guillermo gets Director?

    I don’t just see it, I think it’s the most likely outcome right now.

  68. Sideshow Bill says:

    And you return the personal attack IO by slamming me as “cis gendered” and whatnot. Fact is we have the same politics. I was a liberal socialist before you learned to crawl. I’m a single dad raising two gay daughters and I’m proud as fuck of them.

    Don’t assume to know anything personal about me. I don’t know your everyday life either but what I do know is online you’re a childish, pompous, chest-beating puffer.

  69. palmtree says:

    What about Shape of Water getting Picture? The gurus have it currently at #1. Kinda makes sense if you parse it…

    It has the most nominations, which already shows that it’s pretty healthy in terms of Academy love. Guillermo seems more and more like a lock. And it fits the bill for a “safe” choice that everyone can get behind (at least for a second or third choice). AND it references old Hollywood in a way that flatters the Academy. And while not as progressive as Get Out, it also deals with race and prejudice and, in Octavia Spencer, has a substantial nonwhite role in it.

  70. Stella's Boy says:

    I agree that unfortunately 3BB will win BP and Guillermo gets BD. Didn’t see the Woody nomination coming. Wish it had been Jason Mitchell for Mudbound. One of my favorite performances of the year. One of many that would have been a better choice than Woody.

  71. MarkVH says:

    Are we still doing this Wonder Woman thing? It’s done. It’ll head to the $8 Blu-ray bin and repeated showings on FX/HBO/whatever that people will flip to for five minutes then move on to something else. I know I brought it up, but honestly it’s really not worth the consternation at this point. Lots more interesting Oscar stuff to discuss.

  72. Sideshow Bill says:

    But really I blame myself for responding to IO’s nonsense. He stumbles upon a good point every now and then but it’s mostly internet fanboy
    cliches and and sloganeering. I will agree with him that Godot was more deserving than Streep’s annual fucking nomination. But that’s as far as I’ll go. Anyway proceed with your 5 paragraph response, beat your chest and proceed to school us on Batman and Marvel. I’m going to try and go back to ignoring you.

    The Denzel nod also sucks. I suspect he may have squeezed in after the James Franco accusations. They still could have done better.

    Mainstream audiences will look at these nominees and shake their heads but as a cinephile I’m pretty happy. It’s a diverse group and there is some new blood. I’m pretty happy with it, for what it’s worth

  73. Hcat says:

    What? Marvel is really excited about their next movie? What a ringing endorsement.

    Would have been fine either way about WW getting a BP nom. That it missed one is no great tragedy, and as hopefully more and more woman get to spearhead films of this size this film will be remembered as being a significant achievement by the novelty of being first as opposed to being of outstanding quality. Two things I don’t understand, in what Universe is Gal Gadot an everyday woman, and why is making WWI palatable for the family audience a good thing.

    Queen and Kings Speech were at least in my top ten that year if not top five. Don’t understand how those films are dismissed so easily. Artist, sure that was crap, Cider House had no business being in the conversation, never bothered to see the Reader. But Kings Speech was a crowd pleaser right over the plate, I know tons of non cineastes who love that film and its the only thing with English accents outside of Potter that they saw that decade.

    Wind River got kneecapped with the Weinstein scandal, it didn’t have a studio to support it so it sort of faded from the conversation. While that is unfortunate, Sheridan is so talented this oversight will surely be rectified in the coming years (many times over I would imagine).

  74. Hcat says:

    Have seen very few of the nominees but making a wishlist/legit predictions list I will toss out:

    BP: Lady Bird
    BD: Guillermo
    Actor: McDormand and Oldman
    Supporting: Janney and Rockwell
    Screenplay: 3 Billboards and Call Me

    Not sure if people will spread the wealth around quite that evenly, but this year seems to not have a dominant frontrunner not because of lack of quality stuff but because of a plethora of films people are really passionately loving.

  75. iothereturned says:

    Hc, look at those clever little burns. Sorry, but Marvel Studio rarely thump their chest like they are doing with Black Panther, but reading any other news source but this blog seems incapable for many of you. Thus leaving me with the ever growing feeling, that many of you have no idea what’s going on.

    Also, read what I write before you respond to it. Thanks. I am pretty chaffed, that many of you cannot grasp the point of this, seeing as it’s a point I’ve been making for over a decade. It’s not a tragedy. It’s once again, because apparently I do have to use caps to get through to you blokes. It’s a transcendent moment in movie form, and the Academy’s inability to see past their own two feet is what’s making their award show less and less relevant.

    Bill, please ignore me, because not one of your responses has anything to do with reality. It’s like the nonsense where you thought I was telling you about mental illness, when I wasn’t. Never mentioned giving Gal a nom, but Patty deserved one. She sure as heck did, but please continue to act like you are the victim. It’s funny, because if I stated you or any of your ilk were laughable. You’d blow a gasket and go on about personal attacks. [Sarcastic mouth noise]

    And who cares about cinephiles? The problem with the Oscars and snobs like you, acting like these nine films are the best that came out in a year, and everything else doesn’t measure up. It’s infuriating bullshit, but this is what happens when you have an award show, who is at war with its own audience. Not with you, but with the people who go see movies. Look at the ratings, look at the nominees, and you can see making people care is impossible for the Academy’s these days.

    MarkVH, like you are the judge and purveyor of reality. Google, genius. Pete, you are this blogs equivalent, of the dude who was in his underwear during the women’s march, and thought the women were cheering at him.


  76. spassky says:

    um, so anyway…

    What does everyone think of the Foreign Nominees?

    EDIT: Best Foreign Language Film

  77. iothereturned says:

    I’m looking forward to watching the Square.

  78. spassky says:

    I am repeatedly unimpressed by Ruben Ostlund. I think he’s a smug pretty boy with little interesting to say (oh and look his main characters are all smug pretty boys with little of interest to say). Thought it looked like some asshole took the weekend sojourn up to DIA and thought they were qualified to talk about contemporary art. I will say there is a key sequence that is unlike much else in the cinema these days (or maybe ever). definitely worth a watch! (but way WAY too long). The nomination felt like a commentary on the academy’s dislike of high art (and for that matter low art as well).

    Need to catch up on “The Insult”… really disappointed for “Zama” and “Felicite” (along with ‘phantom thread’ my favorite films of the year) and would’ve liked to see noms for “BPM” “Thelma” and “Foxtrot”

    … again, haven’t seen “The Insult”, but “The Square” is the only film I think that won’t hold up out of those nominees. The film, like “Force Majeur” in many ways, puts on like its rich and nuanced look at contemporary society, but is just an easy backhand/assgrab from a petty middlemind.

  79. Hcat says:

    IO, I don’t think anyone is saying that these are the only films that matter, in fact people have been talking about oversights. I think we all recognize the awards as a PR exercise and that nobody claims that of course The Artist or Around the World in Eighty Days are the single greatest films of their years just because they have the statue. But we are happy when a lot of extraordinary films are actually nominated.

    And also I don’t think I (or anyone) is suggesting that Black Panther is not going to be huge, or that its not important to have someone other than white males take the front and center role as superhero. But you cant fault us for not reading fanboy sites when many of us are not fanboys. Anticipation for the film is surely at a fever pitch on those sites, just as it was for Thor and Guardians 2 etc etc.

    You keep complaining about things we don’t get but what they hell are those?

    That Superhero films are popular? Who argues against that?

    That they are worthy of competing for the best picture prize? That’s subjective, would anyone have griped if TDK was nominated? I don’t think you were the only one surprised when it wasn’t on the list.

  80. Joe Leydon says:

    Hey gang! If you want to give Hostiles and Wind River some awards love, here’s your chance.

  81. iothereturned says:

    Hc, do you really feel they are extraordinary, or just arthouse darlings? Just a genuine question.

  82. Bulldog68 says:

    @ Stella re “Wish it had been Jason Mitchell for Mudbound”

    Haven’t seen Mudbound yet, I should really get on that, but he definitely deserved one for Straight Outta Compton and his Eazy-E portrayal. And it definitely lent legitimacy to the #oscarsoowhite movement. It was way more nuanced and complicated than Bradley Cooper’s Sniper role.

    He was on The Daily Show recently and he seems very engaging in person. Looking forward to more work from him.

  83. Stella's Boy says:

    He’s excellent in Straight Outta Compton and quite an exceptional young actor. Definitely check out Mudbound. It’s wonderful and Mitchell gives such an affecting performance.

  84. Mike says:

    What about Shape of Water getting Picture? The gurus have it currently at #1. Kinda makes sense if you parse it…

    I think people often get fooled by the most nominations thing. Shape of Water was going to be up for more technical nods than 3BB could. 3BB pulled off the two actors in the same category which shows the deep love for it. And to speak cynically, the Academy members who want to feel that the award says something important can feel better about 3BB. Hell, it’s almost tailor made for them if you consider how the movie hates rural conservatives and loves liberals, while it seems so daring in its crass humor and seemingly morally ambiguous ending.

    They’ll spread the love to GDT for best director, though, for all of the reasons you mentioned.

  85. Stella's Boy says:

    3BB hates rural conservatives and loves liberals? Did you even see it? It has a ton of affection for Rockwell’s character, the most despicable person in it. And how exactly does it love liberals? I’m not a fan of the movie, but I have to wonder if you’ve even seen it.

  86. Michael Bergeron says:

    the only Daniel Day-Lewis movie I haven’t seen is Stars and Bars (1988) … so I streamed it on amazon …. what an undiscovered gem …. DDL doing a Nottingham accent comic turn a few years before Hugh Grant made a living doing same … what a cast also: harry dean stanton, laurie metcalf and many others

  87. Glamourboy says:

    Jeez, so JS decided to slap some paint on his personna and return, once more, as IO….and he is just as insulting in every single post as he was before. I counted five insults in one of his posts before I stopped reading it. It seems impossible for him to make a statement without putting someone else down.

  88. palmtree says:

    “3BB pulled off the two actors in the same category”

    But even so, the lack of a director nomination is telling, especially when McDonagh is up for the DGA Award. From the Gold Derby: “Only four times in Oscar history has a movie won without a directing nomination, and just once this century.” Wow, quite a statistic.

    And for the record, Shape of Water (SH2O for short?) has the same number of acting nominations as 3BB. Not two in one category, but still it has three total. Kinda amazing given that it is in no way a traditional actor-y drama the way 3BB arguably is.

    And yeah, I don’t think the movie hates rural conservatives. Woody and Sam are getting the nomination for playing rural conservatives, and both of their characters are made sympathetic by the film. I mean, I don’t think 3BB is an accurate depiction of the midwest, but that doesn’t mean it hates the people who live there.

  89. Pete B says:

    Sorry to sully your enlightened argument, IO. I’m just not as WOKE as you. Besides I’m still reeling from your alter-ego GdB referring to fans of TLJ as “high culture snobs”, so I had to re-establish that I’m the cinematic equivalent of a Neanderthal.

    I’m shocked that I’ve actually seen a single film up for Best Picture (Dunkirk). Prior to Mad Max: Fury Road, the only other BP nominee I’d seen in the theater during the past decade was Inception (another Nolan film). Usually my tastes are relegated to the Visual Effects/Sound Editing/Sound Mixing categories.

    Speaking of, can someone explain how in the heck Valerian and the City of a Thousand Planets never got nominated for Best Visual Effects? That should have been a slam dunk. Easily the most visually stunning movie of the year.

  90. iothereturned says:

    Pete, you guys really aren’t worth that much effort. Why you don’t understand who the minority is in this discussion is…

    GB, let’s not derail things, but you did just make a statement and put me down

    But 3BB tugs at things, the Academy have enjoyed rewarding. It would be cool, if The Shape of Water wins, but why would it? It’s still a fantasy movie. Are they going to let a fantasy movie win? It would be cool, but guess what? This will only lead to folks who make other fantasy movies that are great, and get passed over to wonder, “Do I need Jeff Bezos’ money to make my fantasy film win an Oscar?”

  91. Sideshow Bill says:

    IO cherry picks to make his attacks. He ignores where I stated I love comics, I love super hero comic books, I love super hero movies, I liked WW. I just have yet to see a superhero comic book movie that I would put in a Best Film conversation. Ghost World? A History Of Violence? Sure. But they’re different breeds of cat.

    As soon as somebody makes a super hero movie that’s on the same level as Boogie Nights, There Will Be Blood, Goodfellas, Moonlight, The Godfather, etc, then I’ll be on board. And no, I don’t think Dark Knight is as good as those films even though I very much like it. But that’s just MY opinion and I respect that others think otherwise. See how easy that is to do IO?

    And as much as I enjoy the awards they just don’t matter, so why get mad? The people who love WW will always have it and it will always mean more to them than, say, Phantom Thread. I loved Moonlight but The Witch means a hell of a lot more to me. But I don’t care that it didn’t get any trophies. Your passion doesn’t need to be validated by outside forces to be meaningful, and getting mad about it is just silly. As is being a dick to people on a message board who don’t agree with your ironclad proclamations.

    A little self-reflection would do you good, IO.

  92. Hcat says:

    IO, the arthouse darling question goes to more than I can type right now. You seem to be getting to the complaint that “Oscar nominates films that nobodies ever heard of”. Not yourself I know you are familiar with all the titles but the regular moviegoer, who is less obsessed than the people who frequent this blog. But it seems like you think the Oscars should be more ‘populist’ and reward the bigger hits.

    But no I don’t think they are arthouse darlings, and only got it because of their indie cred. Would Darkest Hour be any different if it came from Uni instead of Focus, or shape of water if it came from papa Fox? Darkest Hour could have been made anytime in the past 60 years (pre arthouse) and garnered Oscar consideration. I would argue Phantom Thread, Post and Lady Bird are the same, a chamber romance, journalistic thriller and coming of age film. Oscar has a type, and that type is now made by the boutiques and the indie companies because the return is not as gargantuan as Jumanji.

    But I will leave you with this JS, if the academy took your advice and worked to be more “relevant” by making sure to include well reviewed blockbusters than the dreaded Last Jedi would be sitting in the nomination list.

  93. Hcat says:

    And I agree with Bill, its not that comic book films are a genre to be ignored, its that they haven’t reached that level yet. Dunkirk was a better, tighter film than any of his Batmans (and Interstellar) and so if he was going to get snubbed for any of his accomplishments I glad it worked out this way.

    And I don’t see how you knock the academy for not embracing ‘genre’ (as if all movies don’t fit into some form of genre) with Shape of Water and Get Out on the list.

  94. palmtree says:

    I think it’s inevitable we get classics of the comic book movie. Logan is only a harbinger of things to come. And maybe one day when the Academy creates the category of Best Cinematic Universe, Marvel will get its due.

    And the way it works is Patty Jenkins will be rewarded when, like Nolan, she returns to do a “serious” movie and then is rewarded in part (unstated, of course) for doing genre really well too.

  95. Joe Leydon says:

    I know I will catch heat from both sides for stating this, but I think there already has been a classic comic book movie: Hancock. The only problem is, yeah, it wasn’t actually based on a comic book. But still…

  96. iothereturned says:

    Hate you Joe, but Hancock is a really good damn movie.

    Hc, if they loved it enough to nominate it. I’d be happy for TLJ to be there. I love SW, don’t like that; doesn’t mean I want the films to never be recognized.

    Bill, read what you wrote and edit next time. I always do.

  97. Pete B says:

    If we’re discussing classic comic book movies not based on actual comic books… Unbreakable.

    Worth a BP nod from me at least.

  98. palmtree says:

    Hey, if we more loosely define “comic book movie,” then one has already won Best Picture: Birdman.

  99. Hcat says:

    IO, see that’s where I am confused, if you despised Jedi you would still be fine with it landing a BP nod because the academy loved it enough. But when they love this list of films enough to put them in you question their relevance.

    Its not like this group is unknown, Dunkirk and Get Out were big hits, Post could cross 100 Mil, Bird, Shape, Billboards, and Darkest will all cross 50. Lets not forget the main focus of the Oscars is to trumpet what the industry feels is the pinnacle of the craft, meant to give the work a boost above the general din of the industry.

  100. Mike says:

    See, I definitely thought 3BB hated rural conservatives, mostly identified by the dentist and Sam Rockwell’s character. Just because it makes him funny doesn’t make him sympathetic (or that was my take any way).

    And it loves the liberals, like the two token African American characters who can’t wait to dish it out to the cops, as well as the billboard agency guy who gets tossed out the window. Isn’t it beautiful the way he forgives Rockwell in the hospital?

    I totally agree that it doesn’t feel authentic to the midwest, but in my mind its politics felt too obvious as well.

    “But even so, the lack of a director nomination is telling, especially when McDonagh is up for the DGA Award. From the Gold Derby: “Only four times in Oscar history has a movie won without a directing nomination, and just once this century.” Wow, quite a statistic.”

    That’s a good point – I hadn’t noticed that one. You might be right and it points toward Shape of Water, but I think it just suggests they’re planning on spreading the love.

  101. Joe Leydon says:

    Pete: Yes, Unbreakable as well. And the original Darkman wasn’t chopped liver, either.

  102. palmtree says:

    Sam Rockwell doesn’t start out sympathetic but he becomes sympathetic over the course of the movie. He probably has the most change in character, which makes him stand out over the African American characters who are “good” but are pretty much static and therefore don’t grab our attention.

    Sure, the politics of 3BB are intended to be liberal. But it’s similar to the liberal politics of Crash, which manages to find a similarly hollow redemption for its bigot.

  103. Hcat says:

    Ahhh Darkman. As a big Evil Dead fan I was crazy with anticipation to see it, first matinee of opening day, and even took the girlfriend without giving consideration to the fact that a seventeen year old girl might not be interested in seeing a movie about an offbrand gonzo superhero.

    Funny that that was McDormand’s followup to getting an Oscar Nom (I guess it was a favor to Raimi?) and that it was just three short years until Neeson was Schindler.

  104. palmtree says:

    And if we’re just geeking out, one of Sam Rockwell’s first movie roles was in a comic book movie as the head thug in Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. Pretty memorable too for such a small part.

  105. Ray Pride says:

    Hancock grossed only $227,946,274 WW. Does that count?

  106. Bulldog68 says:

    Keep in mind that Suicide Squad is an Oscar winner. Hehehe.

  107. Pete B says:

    Joe, I could I forget Darkman? It was sort of Raimi’s dry run before Spider-man 10 years later, and arguably a much better movie. Of course having Neeson, McDormand, and the late great Larry Drake chewing the scenery helped.

  108. Joe Leydon says:

    True story: I was Liam Neeson’s last interview of the day at the 1990 Toronto Film Festival — he was there to promote “The Big Man,” a movie later released in US as “Crossing the Line” — and he was supposed to leave the hotel immediately afterwards to catch a flight somewhere. We had a nice chat — hey, we’re both Irish, and we both had nice things to say about Houston homeboy Patrick Swayze, whom he’d befriended while they made Next of Kin. Trouble is, the Miramax publicist, a slight and anxious young woman, grew increasingly frantic near the end of the interview because she’d not yet heard from the car service she’d contacted to drive Neeson. She actually started calling the service — repeatedly — as Neeson and I talked nearby. (This was more or less the pre-cellphone era; she was using the hotel room phone.) Finally, Neeson, seeing how really, really upset the poor woman was getting, got up from his chair, raced across the room, took the receiver from her hand and mock-bellowed into the phone: “DON’T YOU PEOPLE KNOW WHO I AM? I’M DARKMAN!!!” And then he slammed down the phone. All three of us burst into laughter. Don’t know what effect it had on the car service dispatcher, but the driver called from downstairs shortly afterwards.

  109. Joe Leydon says:

    Ray: I hate to use the cliché “ahead of its time,” but I wonder if that really does apply to the decade-old Hancock? As I wrote in my original review: What if the Man of Steel got totally bummed out about being the only being of his kind and used 100-proof self-medication to cope with deep blue funks? What if all the booze and the blues began to affect his job performance?

    IO will never forgive me for teasing him with the Fake News rumors about an Extended Gold Key Universe series of movies featuring Magnus the Robot Fighter, Dr Solar: Man of the Atom and Turok: Son of Stone.

  110. palmtree says:

    ^Haha, that story was awesome!

  111. Pete B. says:

    Joe that is a great Neeson story.

    And sign me up for a Magnus the Robot Fighter movie. Maybe starring Scott Adkins?

  112. Joe Leydon says:

    Pete: After Universal Soldier: Day of Reckoning and Savage Dog, I’d say Scott Adkins is ready for his comic book lead.

  113. Doug R says:

    Hancock had some bumps, but I loved it overall. Surprised no one here mentioned Mystery Men with future Oscar winner Geoffrey Rush and one of Michael Bay’s few cameos.

  114. MarkVH says:

    “And the way it works is Patty Jenkins will be rewarded when, like Nolan, she returns to do a “serious” movie and then is rewarded in part (unstated, of course) for doing genre really well too.”

    Dunkirk is Nolan’s best film and the first one for which he has genuinely deserved an Oscar nomination (and win, IMO).

  115. iothereturned says:

    Nolan isn’t winning for Dunkirk. GDT’s year. Sure. Things could change after the DGAs, but GDT director and 3BB picture. Everyone goes home, and hopes Bezos puts Shape of Water online early.

    Hate you Joe, but Turok deserves a movie. Everyone knows it. It’s a known things, dang it.

  116. Hcat says:

    I believe Rush already had an Oscar on the mantle when he made Mystery Men.

  117. iothereturned says:

    Mystery Men is the best. I love and adore that movie.

  118. Hcat says:

    For all the idiot attempts floated for shared universes I am amazed no one has optioned the Kings Feature triple crown of Phantom, Mandrake and Flash Gordon. Especially since the first two features based on those properties remain guilty pleasures for quite a few people. I was hesitant about Phantom until I caught the glimpse of the trailer where Zeta Jones goes strolling through with Aviator goggles, Some people can make anything look good.

  119. Pete B says:

    The Phantom was great. An understated Billy Zane and an over-the-top Treat Williams.
    Not to mention Patrick “The Prisoner” McGoohan.

  120. palmtree says:

    “Dunkirk is Nolan’s best film and the first one for which he has genuinely deserved an Oscar nomination (and win, IMO).”

    Dunno, Memento was pretty awesome. Still is, actually.

  121. leahnz says:


  122. Joe Leydon says:

    Pete: The great thing about the Phantom movie was, Billy Zane enjoyed seemed to enjoy being a superhero.

  123. iothereturned says:

    Leah, here is the most annoying movie argument from 2012: “Dredd would have been a better movie. If wasn’t exactly like Raid!” This still annoys me, because setting isn’t the same as story, but god forbid people grasp this point.


  124. leahnz says:

    the other thing about the “dredd’s a rip-off of the raid” complaints is that despite the fact ‘the raid’ was released first, ‘dredd’ was written and went into production before ‘the raid’ so if there’s any comparison complaints to be made it would have to be the other way around

  125. Hcat says:

    Joe, never saw it but knew it existed, I had aged out of after school cartoons by that time. There was an earlier serialized cartoon of Flash Gordon that I loved as a kid. That and Battle of the Planets (which I think had different names depending on the syndication) still hold fond memories.

    I have a theory the reason the Furious movies do so well in Asia is a nostalgia for the old anime like Voltron and G-force. Watching the team drive across the ice in formation, each member in their distinct vehicle and their own distinct personality, it almost seems like a homage.

  126. iothereturned says:

    And Vin has spent a crap-ton of time over there. The Chinese, love Vin Diesel. If you look at his social media numbers. They have a lot of happy Chinese folks following him. Will they continue to support them, if they suck? The Chinese are killing it with their own cinema, so who knows how long they love Vin.

    Hc, from something earlier. A lot of people working at Lucasfilm, have been working there for a long time. I may hate where it’s gone, but many of them were there before hand. It would be cool, if their work was honored. Seeing as ANH had a BP nom in 78, and Empire received a special paper Oscar in 81. I’m all for the series receiving some Oscars.

  127. Pete B says:

    Joe, that was a spot-on review for The Phantom. It really captured what made the movie special. I guess if it had been more successful there were 2 sequels greenlit. That’s a bummer.

    You might appreciate this: a relative of mine bought that great new technology the laserdisc player, and their first movie purchased was… The Phantom.

  128. Hcat says:

    Pete, I almost bought a laserdisc about the same time, which would have been about two years before DVDs hit the shelves. Though I have to think you could pick up a lot of deals on laserdisc after the its obsolescence was confirmed.

    And I am always amazed at the change in the industry that used make me wait a year for a widescreen vhs (and only on certain titles) and then charged me $25 for it, and now around Christmas I can often find Blu-Rays of Summer movies for $10.

  129. Sideshow Bill says:

    Count me in on DARKMAN. It still holds up. it’s a blast. That helicopter chase is wonderful.

    I was writing on my phone from work, IO, so…yea. I should still edit better. Fair point.

    And I also love MYSTERY MEN. Common ground, IO. We have some. It’s a start.

    Oh, and also agree on DREDD. Love that movie. I don’t care that it’s similar to the also great THE RAID. They are both fun movies. Karl Urban should be a bigger star but he’s still done well for himself. I was surprised to see him in the new THOR film. And his Bones McCoy work is also great. Neat guy.

  130. iothereturned says:

    Hc, if it’s a big movie. They usually put the BD/UHD on sale during Black Friday. It’s why I usually wait. If I can’t find a title used. Unlike those blasted Criterions, that just randomly go on sale throughout the year, and it’s always during a week there are bills to pay! This is why I want Criterion to just make a streaming service, better than their weird site with TCM.

    Bill, it’s not like I hate any of you, but it gets frustrating when I constantly get kicked in the balls over points I am not making. If I was like, “Wonder Woman best film ever… you are wrong!” Your response would have been appropriate. However, that’s never been my point about Wonder Woman, but I get the shoes thrown at me because of what I love… which is just, pardon the language, hokey bullshit.

  131. Stella's Boy says:

    Mike the dentist is in 3BB for like two minutes. His character is hardly evidence of the movie hating conservatives. And again Woody’s character is very sympathetic and there’s no reason to believe he’s liberal, and his letter certainly tries to redeem Rockwell’s character and present him as a decent person despite what we’ve seen and heard about him. That’s a lot of evidence against the contention that the movie hates conservatives. Your argument is really flimsy at best.

    None of the BP nominees I’ve seen has blown me away, and I think Logan and Wonder Woman hold their own with them I like them as much as anything I saw in 2017. I don’t buy that neither is good enough for a BP nomination. Both are a hell of a lot better than 3BB and The Post.

  132. Bulldog68 says:

    While box office is no real predictor of Oscar glory, I was interested to see which of the movies still in theaters and nominated for BP would receive the biggest bump, and that honor goes to Shape of Water. It was actually behind 3BB, Phantom Thread, and Darkest Hour on Monday and doubled it’s gross on Tuesday, leapfrogging over the other nominees.

  133. Hcat says:

    ” because of what I love… which is just, pardon the language, hokey bullshit.”

    I think we all agree with this statement that you love hokey bullshit 🙂

    Bulldog, hopefully they all get a boost. I know people have been critical of Neon’s I, Tonya slooooooow release strategy, but like CMBYN it seems to be working to its advantage. They might both have their biggest weekend yet.

    Especially since the likely #1 this weekend is more directed toward teens than the Oscar audience. Plus the Maze Runner trilogy dipped in its second entry which we have learned in the past month means fans have utterly abandoned it and the future installment is doomed.

  134. Bulldog68 says:

    @ Hcat: “Plus the Maze Runner trilogy dipped in its second entry which we have learned in the past month means fans have utterly abandoned it and the future installment is doomed.”

    It’s interesting that among tentpoles like Star Wars, Jurassic Park, we expect a dip in the sequel, but among superhero movies and YA based flicks, we expect growth. Twilight, Hunger Games grew, but Maze and Divergent didn’t. I expect that due to the injury of Maze Runner’s main star that delayed production, that it helped kill whatever momentum and interest this series had. Though he did show up in American Assassin, running and jumping and everything. I wonder when that was shot?

  135. Hcat says:

    Twilight I understand the growth, it seemed laughable when released and was routinely mocked, but people checked it out on video and the next one got the bump. Hunger Games difference could be seen as steady with the first.

    But Maze and Divergent probably suffered through a lack of quality. Was slightly impressed with the first Maze but just saw the second one last night and barely made it through. A trilogy should be three separate works that tie together (Bourne did this well) but Scorch trials was just spinning its wheels, no character arcs, no real act structure, just run run run run run jump scare run run run.

  136. Bulldog68 says:

    The RT score is at 40%, but RT needs to really examine how they arrive at a Rotten rating for what are some positive reviews albeit with one or two negative remarks.

    Should this review receive a rotten rating? “Fans of the dystopian franchise will find a satisfying conclusion to the whole endeavour but [Dylan] O’Brien as determined rebel leader Thomas is as wooden as ever and Kaya Scodelario, as turncoat rebel Teresa, nearly overdoes him in that regard.”

    Your thoughts.

  137. palmtree says:

    I, Tonya is probably laying low until the Winter Olympics starts up next month. Then it’ll get a free boost from people suddenly caring about figure skating again. It’s almost like this year’s Oscar schedule was tailor made for this release strategy.

  138. Sideshow Bill says:

    Fair enough, IO. Let’s start over.

    I would not have been angry over a WW or LOGAN Best Picture nod either but I never, ever expected it, not with one molecule of my being. It’s just not what they do 98% of the time.And I don’t think it’s worth getting even remotely upset over because those movies were rewarded with $$$ and success and a lot of mainstream love.

    These award things are such a weird time. All of here know it’s nothing but PR and flattery and whatnot. It’s empty. Yet we still get irritate when something we like gets ignore or something we don’t like gets recognized. And I think that’s ok. It’s a fine line to balance but with every passing year I just care less. My disillusionment began when Goodfellas was passed over, and it just grew when Boogie Nights got the (12 inch) shaft. Every now and then they make a good choice –Moonlight, No Country…, Spotlight–but in the end it means more to them than us.

    I’m not trying to have it both ways. This stuff if fun and I just take it as that. We all should. But when you’re passionate about something as everyone on this blog is then emotions are bound to pop up.

    Ergo, I apologize for attacking IO, even though I think he could be a bit nicer sometimes, too.

    Now, for me, I gotta see these goddamn movies.

  139. Hcat says:

    Goodfellas is the superior movie but damn, Wolves was just so OSCARY!!! Plus one of the reasons film was invented was to one day capture footage of Costner on horseback for all to enjoy. My favorite cinematic image is a star on a horse, and Costner wears it better than anyone.

  140. Sideshow Bill says:

    Oh, I forgot: Re: Maze Runner 3. My 15 y/o read and loved all the books but she hated the second film because they changed so much. She has no interest in the new one. Small sample size, sure, but she says a lot of fans felt the same way.

    Me, I’ve seen both Maze Runner films and the first 2 Divergent movies and I still have absolutely no fucking idea what was going on in either of them. Inland Empire was easier for me to understand. Maybe I’m just dumb or slow but I can’t tell you a damn thing about those movies aside from the kids in MR #1 having great haircuts despite being trapped in the….um…whatever they were trapped in.

  141. movieman says:

    Maze Runner, snooze.
    The movie whose b.o. performance I’ll be keeping close tabs on this weekend is “Hostiles.”
    Hoping that its surprising durability in limited release translates to a nice wide nat’l release run.
    And curious to see what kind of legs it’ll have since I’m guessing WOM should be pretty strong w/ the older demo that would be drawn to a western.

  142. Hcat says:

    So of all the noms in current release, will they make it all the way to the oscars in theaters or are they slated to drop on video the Tuesday before the ceremony?

  143. Sideshow Bill says:

    Just a thought:

    Aubrey Plaza in Ingrid Goes West > Meryl Streep in The Post

  144. spassky says:

    Aubrey Plaza was great all over this year. (Little Hours>Ingrid Goes West). I haven’t seen ‘The Post’ but I’m sure Streep is a snooze as always in recent years. I really REALLY wanted to love ‘Ricki and the Flash’ but I guess ‘Into Woods’ is the last interesting work she’s done (kind of, eh). 10 years since she really killed it (Doubt, Mamma Mia).

    Anyway, I’m gonna go even further…

    Molly Shannon in “The Little Hours” > all supporting actresses except Metcalf

  145. YancySkancy says:

    The Little Hours was something else. My fave performance in it was John C. Reilly.

  146. movieman says:

    My favorite “Little Hours” performance was Fred Armisen’s.
    He was the only one who actually made me laugh.
    For me, it was one of those comedies that sounded funnier on paper than in execution.
    But Molly Shannon Power all the way!
    Shannon and Tracy Letts are what keep me watching HBO’s “Divorce.”

  147. Mike says:

    Stella’s Boy, I think the dentist is as much evidence as the two African American characters. They’re all background and painted as either good or bad characters very quickly. The African Americans (one of whom goes to jail for three days for the Frances McDormand character, which the movie hardly cares about) are treated as good and the townsfolk who support the police are treated as evil (casually refusing to administer novacaine).

    On Rockwell’s character, he is presented as funny. He’s also presented as a racist, authoritarian asshole. Again, just because the movie makes him funny, doesn’t mean that he’s painted as good or that we’re supposed to think the movie respects his worldview. His redemption arc is pretty nonexistent when you look at it. His moment of redemption comes from the liberal billboard salesman forgiving him unasked.

    Woody’s character is confusing, as while the movie wants us to have sympathy for him, it barely gave us any reason to do so. Here’s a guy who hired and supports a racist cop. He makes no effort to overhaul the police station. He just wants everyone to get along and screw his wife. But he’s dying, so it’s tragic? He never felt authentic, but maybe that’s me.

    To me it seemed pretty simple: the liberals suffer and forgive and the conservatives attack and don’t forgive.

  148. Stella's Boy says:

    That’s an odd reading. I’m not sure why the billboard salesman is a liberal. He’s a doofus who doesn’t seem to be very ideological. Who else in the film would be considered liberal? And a dentist who’s in the movie for a minute and is assaulted by the main character is hardly evidence of 3BB hating conservatives. He supports the sheriff but that doesn’t tell us anything about his ideology. Jason isn’t portrayed as good but the letter from a sympathetic character says he is a decent man and you can’t say the movie hates him. You’re projecting and your reading of the film is highly suspect. In interviews about 3BB McDonagh has said he seeks to be an equal opportunity offender and loathes political correctness. My right-wing father-in-law says the same thing all the time. There’s just no way the movie hates conservatives and loves liberals.

  149. palmtree says:

    “His redemption arc is pretty nonexistent when you look at it. His moment of redemption comes from the liberal billboard salesman forgiving him unasked.”

    No, his redemption is SPOILER ALERT…

    when he decides to help solve the case.

  150. Mike says:

    I disagree. I think the director’s stated emphasis does not make something so any more than a letter that says one guy thinks Jason is decent makes him decent. But you’re right, we should definitely take the word of the dead guy over our own eyes of seeing him throw the harmless billboard salesman out the window. But then again, I also don’t think Willoughby is as sympathetic as you do (see my reasons above).

    On the dentist, you’re saying that a business owner in Missouri who is so pro-police that he’s willing to cause physical discomfort has no ideology seems ignorant, at best.

    The African Americans who hate the police (to the point of helping McDormand’s character) are clearly the liberals in this equation. They’re universally represented as the good characters willing to help out McDormand and go to jail for her if necessary.

    The billboard guy seems like a liberal because he’s young, hip and happy to stick it to the cops and also quick to forgive, but you’re right, I could be projecting on him.

    I think there’s something there. You don’t. Okay.

  151. Mike says:

    “No, his redemption is SPOILER ALERT…

    when he decides to help solve the case.”

    To me, that seemed to have been driven both by Willoughby’s letter, but also by when the billboard guy forgave him. I thought that was the path of his redemption (as unearned as it is).

  152. palmtree says:

    Mike, motivation and action are two different things. The kindness he’s shown motivates him, but what redeems him is the action he takes to be a better person. What makes this redemption hollow is that it doesn’t addresses all the shitty things he did to the black people in town.

  153. Mike says:

    Palm, thank you. My use of film terminology can be as way off base as my readings of films.

  154. Stella's Boy says:

    You are assuming characters are liberal or conservative not based on anything presented in the film itself. That is projecting.

  155. Mike says:

    You really think there are no liberal/conservative politics involved in the town’s, and especially the police department’s, racial problems? In Missouri. There’s a reason it is set there that doesn’t have to be presented in the film.

  156. Stella's Boy says:

    No I don’t think that, and I’m not saying the film isn’t ideological. But you are making assumptions based on the setting and not the content.

  157. Mike says:

    The setting is literally in the title.

  158. Stella's Boy says:

    Thank you captain obvious. Rather than make assumptions based on where a movie is set I prefer to see it and judge the actual content of said movie based on you know the writing.

  159. EtGuild2 says:

    I’m just here to note (having basically chalked this week off due to the 1-day government shutdown), that with 160 comments and running, this might be the most commented on thread of all time on the Hot Blog.

    And to disspell the idea of insularity, it has been spaced out among 32 commenters

    Blogging is alive! 🙂

  160. EtGuild2 says:

    I will say I’m surprised by the lack of Kobe Bryant and Casey Affleck thoughts.

    Also, does Roger Deakins have any shot at avoiding going 0-14?! Where’s the groundswell!

  161. Pete B. says:

    So any chance this talk of plagiarism against The Shape of Water ruins its chance of winning?

    Anyone know of Let Me Hear You Whisper before now?

  162. palmtree says:

    I mentioned Kobe near the top of this thread.

  163. iothereturned says:

    Ethan, Casey Affleck made the right decision, because no one wants his creepy ass around. The thing with Kobe is, no matter how brazen, that was #8. This is #24. If that happened today, or if what happened with Big Ben happened today. Things would be different. He would not have received a nomination. If all the Laker fans in the Academy didn’t vote for him, and I expect him to win. It will be weird if he goes up there, but his stupid ass shouldn’t have done what he did in that hotel room. Dudes are the worst.

    Pete, it totally freakin’ should. It’s the same setting and everything. You can’t go and do such things.

  164. Pete B. says:

    Reading the description of the play it sure sounds like “hey, let’s swipe out the dolphin and put in a feral Abe Sapien.”

  165. iothereturned says:

    Pete, my theory is: Fraus, took this idea to GDT, and said, “What do you think about this?” GDT… GDTed it up, and now we have this weirdness. Where the movie with the most noms, really seems like it’s totally ripped off from a little known play, from a pulitzer winning playwright. Is anyone else totally grossed out by this? It leaves me feeling gross.

    Also, on Ethan’s point: Yeah. Let’s do this more often, and less screaming at me the better :D! It’s good to know that this is our highest post now, and not 20 of us screaming at each other about SW.

    And the Showtime XTC doc is tremendous. If you do not know XTC, then learn to know XTC. All of it… is amazing stuff.

  166. brack says:

    WW was great, until the awful boss battle near the end that was straight out of a video game, that ultimately meant nothing and was very convoluted. That alone is reason enough not to earn a nomination. I don’t care how “important” you think the movie was. The category isn’t “Most Important Film.”

  167. movieman says:

    Did anybody else watch “Mosaic” on HBO this week?
    Damn. It was so good it may have spoiled TV (and movies) for me for the rest of 2018.
    Steven Soderbergh is the Energizer Bunny as Auteur.
    Long may he run.

  168. Stella's Boy says:

    Why didn’t they file the lawsuit sooner if they believe the shape of water ripped off the play? The timing isn’t suspicious here?

  169. PcChongor says:

    Anything popular enough will eventually contend with charges of plagiarism. No idea is particularly unique, and sometimes people get miffed when someone executes a similar one to their’s in a far better way. And when it’s genuine plagiarism, it’s almost always carried out by idiots who’re easily caught like the aptly named Robin Thicke.

    And it’s Kraus who brought his story to Del Toro, who then optioned it and turned it into the film. The Zindel Estate is the one accusing Del Toro of stealing a play that as of right now has 2 reviews on Amazon. If Del Toro wanted to option an obscure play from 1969 he almost certainly would’ve, so I don’t see any motive as to why he’d read the play, convince another writer to go along with his scheme, and then one writer more to co-write the script that he could’ve just finished plagiarizing on his own.

  170. palmtree says:

    Uh, Ray…why is there a Julie Delpy story from two years ago?

    “Why didn’t they file the lawsuit sooner if they believe the shape of water ripped off the play? The timing isn’t suspicious here?”

    The movie has only been out for a couple of months. Given that Zindel isn’t a really well-known playwright, Shape of Water isn’t a high grossing film, and that it’s only been in release since a limited run starting December 1, the timing seems to check out to me.

    But having said that, I don’t think GDT plagiarized it. The story also resembles other ones including Splash and also now Mrs. Caliban.

  171. iothereturned says:

    Brack, we are trying to let bygones be bygone in this thread, and you are relitigating a comment I didn’t make. The thing is: they should be nominating the important movies, the ones that drive people to the cinema, and the ones people would love to see rewarded. Where me and some of you lose the thread, is I like the show. The awards, should drive people to watch the show, because it’s the show where the Academy earns their bag.

    Films like Wonder Woman are rare, because that level of symbolic importance doesn’t happen all the time. Thus leading to my point. Which will always be: how does ignoring these transcendent movies that engage the movie going populace, make the show any better? How does that effect the legacy of the award the show celebrates? It doesn’t look great, but the Academy is a niche film organization. This means, they don’t really care about the award, or the show in my eyes, and that’s why I don’t watch or care. Once the Artist happened? [airplane taking off noise]

    Pc and Palm, I can see some money changing hands. It just seems too hokey.

  172. Stella's Boy says:

    I guess but right after it gets the most Oscar nominations seemed a little suspicious. Not like we havent seen this kind of thing before. It doesn’t seem to have a ton of merit as Pc states.

  173. Sideshow Bill says:

    Wholly shit, IO. I’ve been an XTC fan for 30 years. You just went up in my esteem by a lot. I don’t have Showtime but I’m dying to see this. I’ve always been so bummed over Andy’s stage fright because I can imagine them being an amazing live band. But still….English Settlement is fucking banger. So many great songs.

    Good show, IO.

  174. iothereturned says:

    SB, if you take the family’s word for it. It came up right now, because a few fans stumbled upon The Shape of Water because of nominations. One thing led to another, and here we are.

    The thing is: Pc explains how it could have influenced two other movies, and how the setup spurts out, “plagiarism.” It’s a play from almost 50 years ago. It’s from a somewhat successful playwright. It’s all set up right there to put a “twist on,” and bingo bango bongo… The Shape of Water.

    Again, I am not stating GDT knew this, and decided to steal another guy’s story. It just seems like his co-writer sorta did, because it just seems to fit. It sucks that it fits, but it’s just way to hokey to hand wave away. I doubt it goes anywhere, but it does make one think about the lengths people go through to succeed.

    Bill, I went back a year in the comments, and it seems like we were antagonizing each other all year. That’s neither nice, or fun. My apologies. Nevertheless, it’s a great rock doc, because Andy takes the piss out of the entire genre. Their music though? It’s like the Beatles in a way, because we are lucky to have such varied songwriting from one band.

  175. brack says:

    “you are relitigating a comment I didn’t make”

    Oh really?

    io – “Wonder woman bs? It’s by far, the most important film released last year.”

    “The thing is: they should be nominating the important movies, the ones that drive people to the cinema, and the ones people would love to see rewarded.”

    The thing is that just because a movie on the surface is important doesn’t make it a great film automatically. That’s flawed thinking. And by “the ones that drive people to the cinema”, do you simply mean box office? You want the Oscars to merely be a popularity contest just so the show will get higher ratings? Talk about cheapening the show.

    “Where me and some of you lose the thread, is I like the show.” You are say myself or others don’t like the show. Huh?

    “The awards, should drive people to watch the show, because it’s the show where the Academy earns their bag.”

    While I think there’s way too much emphasis on end-of-the-year Oscar season, and thus too much Oscar bait stuff that seems to get nominated, it’s the Academy that determines the nominations. Watch People’s Choice Awards or MTV Movie Awards for stuff you seem to think should be nominated.

  176. iothereturned says:

    Brack, it is the most important film of last year, and that has nothing to do with me. I am a cis gendered indigenous fellow, and not a woman. Please, point out to me a movie that moved more people in this age of trump last year. Again, it’s important overall, but that doesn’t mean it’s the most important to me. It’s splitting hairs, but those are the hairs we have.

    And the rest of your points, have nothing to do with me. I’ve never stated that I wanted the Oscars to be about box office. I’ve stated, that I want it to honor films that get people to the theatre. This past year, that could have included It. They seem to have a tendency in this century, to look at those films and scoff. After Return of the King, it’s just gone down hill.

    Again, I don’t care about the Oscars, because the Oscars don’t care about itself. That’s why I stopped watching, because nominating the Spirit Awards each year, isn’t reaching the most people who see movies who do not happen to be whites on the coast, or gray hair cinephiles. Those people are well served, but when something transcendent comes along that gets us a large swarth excited? Those films rarely get nominations. They don’t happen all the time, but when they do? They should get some recognition.

    Again, you may or may not love the show, but the nominations are always the same movies recently, and it’s nice when something like Get Out breaks through and mixes it up, even though it’s not going to win. Again, it’s not about the winning. It’s about the recognition and when they should recognize certain films? They never do, so again… I am past caring about the Oscars. I could really care less.

    You also personally insult me, by stating my taste are for the People’s Choice or the MTV movie awards. That’s just insulting, but not as insulting as you, brack. Let’s move on from this nonsense. What angers you about me? What angers me about you? You never read what I write. You McWeeney me, when that point wasn’t about me, but the film in general. You ignore, time and time again, every argument I make to try to take a shot at me, and you still seem angry about god knows what. I am over it. Please, get over it, and read what I actually wrote before getting pissed at me. Please. I implore you.

  177. Stella's Boy says:

    Yeah I don’t know IO you seem very eager to believe the family but I find it hard to believe that del Toros co-writer plagiarized that obscure play. I’m not saying there aren’t similarities, but that alone isn’t proof.

  178. brack says:

    There isn’t enough proof. That play was about a dolphin for Pete’s sake.

  179. iothereturned says:

    It would be great to assume or expect or believe, that everyone has pure motives. I’m simply not a believer in such a thing. It’s just too… it fits. You have someone bringing something to GDT. You have the play being almost 50 years old, so no one would know about it. You have a film like Splash for cover, because it’s somewhat similar as well. It all just sort of fits.

    Again, doesn’t mean it’s going to change a darn thing, but it just seems like, if you are going to steal something from the past. You’d do it from close to 50 years ago in the hopes, that no one would notice.

  180. brack says:

    “Brack, it is the most important film of last year, and that has nothing to do with me. I am a cis gendered indigenous fellow, and not a woman. Please, point out to me a movie that moved more people in this age of trump last year. Again, it’s important overall, but that doesn’t mean it’s the most important to me. It’s splitting hairs, but those are the hairs we have.”

    It does have something to do with you since it’s clearly your opinion.

    Stuff like The Post, Battle of the Sexes, Lady Bird, which didn’t rely on a superwoman saving the day.

    “You also personally insult me, by stating my taste are for the People’s Choice or the MTV movie awards. That’s just insulting, but not as insulting as you, brack. Let’s move on from this nonsense. What angers you about me? What angers me about you? You never read what I write. You McWeeney me, when that point wasn’t about me, but the film in general. You ignore, time and time again, every argument I make to try to take a shot at me, and you still seem angry about god knows what. I am over it. Please, get over it, and read what I actually wrote before getting pissed at me. Please. I implore you.”

    It wasn’t in insult. Once again, io plays the victim card when he doesn’t like the way the discussion is going. You’ve repeatedly said you dislike the Oscars because they don’t include more mainstream stuff. People’s Choice and MTV Movie Awards seem more up your ally. How is that an insult if it’s based off of inductive reasoning?

    I vaguely remember McWeeney, don’t really care, and I don’t hate you. It’s funny how I truly like WW and yet you still think I’m “attacking” you. You are the 10th wonder or the world.

  181. iothereturned says:

    The Post was a rushed job, that even people who love those kinds of film… dislike.

    Battle of the Sexes?

    Lady Bird?

    It’s not my opinion. It’s also Business Insiders, but are you going to get huffy at them as well? You like the movie, but you seem to want to deny the movies important, because you dislike me.

    Whatever the case, and what’s even funnier, is that you ignored the point again: what makes you so angry about me, that you can’t get passed it? What is it?

    I have to deal with people wishing death on me, but did you see me throwing daggers at Joe in here? I told him I hate him, which I do, but he made good points. If I can cooperate with him, then you know… work with me brack.

    And you Drew McWeeny is a really good writer about film. Google, or follow him on twitter.

  182. Stella's Boy says:

    You make it sound like a conspiracy IO. Do you have it out for the film or something? You’re leaping to conclusions based on very little information.

  183. brack says:

    “You like the movie, but you seem to want to deny the movies important, because you dislike me.”

    Don’t flatter yourself.

    Just because other opinions align your your belief doesn’t make it true, it’s an opinion, der.

    “Whatever the case, and what’s even funnier, is that you ignored the point again: what makes you so angry about me, that you can’t get passed it? What is it?”

    Newsflash, and really an old newsflash: I….am…not…..angry….with….you. There is no ‘What is it?’ It’s all in your head.

    “I have to deal with people wishing death on me, but did you see me throwing daggers at Joe in here? I told him I hate him, which I do, but he made good points. If I can cooperate with him, then you know… work with me brack.”

    Since I never wished you dead, I choose to ignore the above paragraph.

    I will never follow someone named McWeeney on principle alone. I don’t read movie reviews much anymore, maybe when I was younger, and I tend to be able to determine whether I like a film or not based on my own intuition.

    And I also don’t spoil movies were plot twists are a bulk of the enjoyment of a film. I find such practices deplorable.

  184. Sideshow Bill says:

    There’s no need to apologize, IO. I don’t get personally offended. You have every right to let some shit flow on a message board as much as I do.

    I mean, in the past, your opinions and stuff have come on as, well, agressive and sometimes obnoxious. That doesn’t make you special nor does it make you a bad guy. I admittdly have a tendency to feed off the energy of others and respond in kind. That’s my flaw.

    Honestly, I find it entertaining even though I agree with you that constant bickering isn’t fun. This is one of very very few boards I still post on because it has a breadth of tastes, opinion, and the people are from many different backgrounds. I’m not in the film business. I’m a schmuck in middle Illinois. I just fucking LOVE movies, of all kind. And I’ve been reading David’s site for as long as I can remember.

    People here are mostly polite positive. Even when there are disagreements. The sparring can be tiring but it can also be a bit entertaining and distract you from your day for a few minutes.

    Anyway, like I said, I disagree with you on WW even though I really liked it. I realized when thinking on thinks that I’m gonna have a hard time keeping Logan off my top 10 so my comment about a superhero movie never being good enough to warrant a best picture nod was kind of ill-considered.

    We’re cool. I still disagree on The Last Jedi but….let’s just NOT even go there again. Live and live, buddy.

    Favorite XTC song? Life Begins At The Hop. No Thugs In Our House. Earn Enough For Us. Mayor of Simpleton. So much to choose from…

  185. iothereturned says:

    Thanks Bill, but it bummed me out we were bickering for a year. That’s just not fun for anyone, and I love this thread has more numbers than any of those TLJ threads. It’s cooler to me, when we all discuss things, and always has been. My favorite XTC song, is That Wave. It’s just so adventurous.

    Brack, agree to disagree, and McWeeny writes for Uproxx.

  186. brack says:

    I’ll give him a shot IO.

  187. Stella's Boy says:

    Doesn’t Drew write for tracking board now? I don’t think he’s at uproxx.

    ED: DM is at Tracking Board: link

  188. Greg says:

    Logan one of my three fav films of the year for sure..

    Unbreakable is my second fav film of all time. Go figure.

  189. YancySkancy says:

    PcChongor: “Blurred Lines” was in no way “genuine plagiarism” except in the minds of Marvin Gaye’s heirs, the judge who let the case go forward, and the music-ignorant jury that found Thicke and his collaborators liable. There’s no melodic, chordal or lyrical similarity, just a similar “groove,” instrumentation, and background party atmosphere, none of which had ever been actionable in the history of copyright infringement until this case. I do agree that Robin Thicke is probably an idiot though; rather than make his case and stand by it, he spouted a bunch of nonsense about being too high to actually participate in the writing of the song, even though he’s credited. Tons of musicians criticized the verdict and support the appeal. As a (non-professional) songwriter, this case drives me insane.

  190. leahnz says:

    there are some remarkable similarities between ‘let me hear you whisper’ – which has been adapted for the screen a couple times, i remember seeing one with rue mcclanahan on tv back in the day and apparently there’s an earlier version as well – and ‘the shape of water’ in terms of premise, basic plot and characters, upon which the shape of water expands

  191. Pete B. says:

    C’mon bloggers, only 8 more posts to get this to 200. You can do it!

    Ruby Rose in John Wick 2 > Meryl Streep in The Post.
    {And she doesn’t even speak!}

  192. iothereturned says:

    ………………. DAMN!

  193. palmtree says:

    Pete, I’ll bite.

    Yeah, that Blurred Lines decision was crazy. You shouldn’t be able to copyright a vibe or a feel or anything vague like that. But it’s just symptomatic of a public domain that is increasingly under attack.

  194. brack says:

    Greg – Unbreakable is my favorite comic book movie ever, and I consider it great. Definitely the best “origin” story anyway. Split just makes the film feel more epic and Glass in 2019 might be my most anticipated movie of 2019. M Night has done in two movies what WB had failed to do in 4 (not in box office mind you, but building a cinematic universe people actually care about).

  195. EtGuild2 says:

    Welp, no matter who wins at the Oscars this year, nothing will be as terrible as the ongoing trainwreck of major Grammy Award winners.

    After so many years, this isn’t hyperbolic. Many, many Grammy voters are racists. The show has turned into a National Disgrace.

    Hip Hop has a better track record at the Oscars.

  196. Pete B says:

    I will gladly jump in on the Unbreakable love. Awhile back I referred to it as a “masterpiece” on this blog and got mocked. I still stand by that. The only movie I’ve seen where after it was over, I immediately bought a ticket and watched it again.

    So many cool subtle things – Samuel L. Jackson’s character is called Mr. Glass and the first three times you meet him is as a reflection. The department store mirror as a baby, the old tube television as a young kid, and in the framed artwork as an adult.

    When I saw Split in the theater and that melody kicked in, I actually stood up in my seat (luckily I was in the back row). So glad that moment wasn’t spoiled.

    Fingers crossed that Glass doesn’t disappoint. You watch Unbreakable and then watch The Happening and you can’t believe the same guy directed them.

  197. iothereturned says:

    Ethan, I do find it highly hilarious, that the death knell to award shows is old white men, and their terrible taste in things. The Grammys are not only racist. They are also sexist, and what they did to Lorde is fucking galling. The moment these Academies have their old white male quotient dwindle, is the moment these shows may stop being awful.

  198. brack says:

    Pete – I truly hope M Night’s “The Happening” days are over and he’s back in form, making more personal, smaller budgeted films. He lost me after The Village, but I liked The Visit and Split is one of my favorite movies from last year. So yeah, here’s hoping we’re right and Glass is something truly special.

  199. Hcat says:

    Did he direct Devil as well? I have always hoped for an M Night comeback. Even in dreck like The Happening, he knows how to move the camera and piece a story together, for awhile I hoped that he would start directing other peoples scripts to protect himself from his worse impulses. While I found Signs rather silly, those scenes in the basement where some top list white knuckle tension. The gun at the breakfast table in Unbreakable is another where I can’t imagine anyone putting that together better.

  200. Stella's Boy says:

    He didn’t direct Devil. I think The Dowdle Brothers (Waco) did. While I hated The Visit and found Split to be highly overrated, he clearly made the right choice by going with Blumhouse and small budgets. But I think those two movies benefit from expertly cut trailers that are far better than the movies themselves. The marketing for each was highly effective and paid off handsomely.

  201. movieman says:

    “Unbreakable” left me cold in 2001 (I gave it a 2 1/2 star review), but a post-“Split” re-viewing last January was positively revelatory.
    I now think it’s Shyamalan’s best film, and eerily/wildly prophetic in its focus on what would become the key themes of the new millennium: comic books and terrorism.

  202. movieman says:

    Is anyone watching “Waco”?
    I love the cast (Shannon, Whigham, Kitsch), but kept falling asleep during the premiere episode.
    Kept rewinding and rewinding until I finally just pressed delete.
    In an era of #TooMuchQualityTelevision, I should probably be grateful I don’t have an add’l weekly addiction to add to my DVR queue.

  203. Pete B says:

    Haven’t tried Waco yet, but will due to Shannon. The Alienist was slow, but so gorgeously filmed I didn’t mind. Hope the tempo picks up.

  204. Stella's Boy says:

    Waco is pretty good but not surprisingly has to be taken with a grain of salt. NPR devoted an hour to it today. The creators spent 30 minutes talking about their motivation and research. Then a reporter who covered it for Dallas Morning News and is writing a book about it came on and said basically everything creators said is false. Gotta love Hollywood. I second that Pete re: The Alienest.

  205. Sideshow Bill says:

    Seems we all kind of forgot this one (unless I overlooked somebody’s comments above), and I only remembered when I saw the Blu Ray at Best Buy today.

    Harry Dean Stanton in Lucky > Christopher Plummer.

    Shoulda happened. And I love Plummer but it just seemed like a courtesy nod.

  206. Triple Option says:

    The first time I heard Blurred Lines I immediately thought of Got to Give it Up and was waiting for the chorus to be looped in at some point. I don’t know songwriting or composition but I’m not surprised the verdict went as it did.

Quote Unquotesee all »

It shows how out of it I was in trying to be in it, acknowledging that I was out of it to myself, and then thinking, “Okay, how do I stop being out of it? Well, I get some legitimate illogical narrative ideas” — some novel, you know?

So I decided on three writers that I might be able to option their material and get some producer, or myself as producer, and then get some writer to do a screenplay on it, and maybe make a movie.

And so the three projects were “Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep,” “Naked Lunch” and a collection of Bukowski. Which, in 1975, forget it — I mean, that was nuts. Hollywood would not touch any of that, but I was looking for something commercial, and I thought that all of these things were coming.

There would be no Blade Runner if there was no Ray Bradbury. I couldn’t find Philip K. Dick. His agent didn’t even know where he was. And so I gave up.

I was walking down the street and I ran into Bradbury — he directed a play that I was going to do as an actor, so we know each other, but he yelled “hi” — and I’d forgot who he was.

So at my girlfriend Barbara Hershey’s urging — I was with her at that moment — she said, “Talk to him! That guy really wants to talk to you,” and I said “No, fuck him,” and keep walking.

But then I did, and then I realized who it was, and I thought, “Wait, he’s in that realm, maybe he knows Philip K. Dick.” I said, “You know a guy named—” “Yeah, sure — you want his phone number?”

My friend paid my rent for a year while I wrote, because it turned out we couldn’t get a writer. My friends kept on me about, well, if you can’t get a writer, then you write.”
~ Hampton Fancher

“That was the most disappointing thing to me in how this thing was played. Is that I’m on the phone with you now, after all that’s been said, and the fundamental distinction between what James is dealing with in these other cases is not actually brought to the fore. The fundamental difference is that James Franco didn’t seek to use his position to have sex with anyone. There’s not a case of that. He wasn’t using his position or status to try to solicit a sexual favor from anyone. If he had — if that were what the accusation involved — the show would not have gone on. We would have folded up shop and we would have not completed the show. Because then it would have been the same as Harvey Weinstein, or Les Moonves, or any of these cases that are fundamental to this new paradigm. Did you not notice that? Why did you not notice that? Is that not something notable to say, journalistically? Because nobody could find the voice to say it. I’m not just being rhetorical. Why is it that you and the other critics, none of you could find the voice to say, “You know, it’s not this, it’s that”? Because — let me go on and speak further to this. If you go back to the L.A. Times piece, that’s what it lacked. That’s what they were not able to deliver. The one example in the five that involved an issue of a sexual act was between James and a woman he was dating, who he was not working with. There was no professional dynamic in any capacity.

~ David Simon