MCN Blogs
David Poland

By David Poland

BYOB Tuesday 6110

Be Sociable, Share!

44 Responses to “BYOB Tuesday 6110”

  1. LexG says:

    Slow BYOB, might as well DELIGHT everyone with some CLASSIC late ’90s BAIT.
    Check the AWESOME BEAT and period hot-chick attire, a decade on looking as dated and awesome as Mod fashions:

  2. Foamy Squirrel says:

    Apparently the easiest way to troll her husband is to ask him to play “Summer of 69”.

  3. LexG says:

    WHOA, WHOA, WHOA… Mandy Moore is MARRIED? To Ryan Adams?
    Why should someone born in *1984* be fucking married? That displays NO VISION.
    Ah, well, seemingly the sweetest girl in the world, always liked Mandy, but you marry some skimarked thriftstore fucking Jetrag asshole like Ryan Adams, you’re off THE LIST.
    We’ll always have the CANDY video and HOW TO DEAL.

  4. leahnz says:

    [rec]2 came out here ages ago, already on DVD

  5. Stella's Boy says:

    Caught up with Edge of Darkness over the weekend. Kind of surprised by how lazy and awful it is. I wasn’t expecting a masterpiece, but Campbell is a competent director, Monahan is capable of great writing, and the role is tailor made for Mel. Seemed like ideal home viewing. But Jesus H it’s just terrible. Talk about Storytelling 101. If you’ve seen at least one movie you could predict everything within about 10 minutes. I was entertained, but for the wrong reasons. I’ve seen better direct-to-video Steven Seagal movies.

  6. jesse says:

    Ryan Adams is one of those musicians who’s kinda neither here nor there. He’s not a full-on macho cock-rock jackass but he’s not anywhere near as awesome as Jack White or Craig Finn or the guy from the National or any number of rock stars who are probably more interesting to talk to than Ryan Adams. So yeah, points off, Mandy Moore.
    She’s a pretty strong actress, though. She had a weird run of movies that didn’t really work out, but either she’d be good in them (How to Deal, Dedication, American Dreamz — seriously, that last one is a mess but she’s pretty terrific in it) or the movie would be interestingly crazy but not really have much for her to do (Southland Tales, Romance & Cigarettes).
    Someone should cast her in an original musical. I saw her at a gig when she put out a (pretty decent) record last year and she’s got a nice and nicely unshowy voice. Her covers album is overproduced but fun, and her post-teen albums are uneven but have some really good songs.

  7. Martin S says:

    For anyone who’s read Feraci overtime, this is a classic. The premise of the entire piece is wrong from the outset. Bad critical theory, thy name is Devin.

  8. Stella's Boy says:

    Cause fanboys are typically such arbiters of sanity and reason. I had to stop reading after a few paragraphs. I stopped reading Devin and CHUD a long time ago. Not a fan.

  9. Blackcloud says:

    As long as the kids in “Last Airbender” can be white, Spidey can be black. What, you don’t like that deal? Then drop the PC BS.

  10. Me says:

    What’s wrong with the premise? I think Glover would be awesome as Spiderman, except that he’s too old.

  11. jesse says:

    Yeah, based on the “flawed premise” tag, I clicked on that article assuming it would be an argument in favor of Spider-Man being white because that’s how it is in the comics or whatever. But he makes pretty much the opposite argument, and completely reasonably. What’s wrong about the premise of the piece? Is it his racial heritage having nothing to do with his career as Spider-Man?
    I don’t know how I’d feel about Glover as Spider-Man — besides his age (although he plays someone only a little older than Spider-Man on Community and in the excellent comedy Mystery Team, convincigly on both counts), his persona has been more happy-go-lucky, innocent, weirdly upbeat… distinct from the put-upon nerd that Peter Parker. It might seem like a stunt — not because he’s black, but because he’s a comedian!
    But he might be able to pull it off. It’s more inventive casting than when someone was floating Percy Jackson; ugh.

  12. mysteryperfecta says:

    I didn’t read the fan reaction to the idea of a black Spidey, but paramount to fanboys is the ideal of remaining faithful to the source material. I suspect that if Spider-man was black from the beginning, there would be a similar uproar over the suggestion that they make him white.

  13. yancyskancy says:

    Lex: I always take the Mandy Moore bait (no Lexian pun intended). She’s a major miracle in the horrid BECAUSE I SAID SO, periodically convincing you that this baffling, annoying film is on the verge of finding its footing and becoming as good as she is. She even emerged unscathed from the idiot plot of LICENSE TO WED. If she were ever cast in something great, or even just a solid, well-crafted rom-com, she could be huge. As it stands, the public yawns.

  14. Stella's Boy says:

    I agree mystery (wow!). Fanboys seem to obsess over faithfulness to source material. Is it any surprise that would be true in this instance as well?

  15. jesse says:

    Agree, yancy! I forgot about the awful Because I Said So — she actually brings some movie-star charm into that shrieking movie even though she’s arguably the least experienced major actor in the thing.
    Stella’s, I see the point that yeah, fanboys tend to be sort of reactionary in demanding source fidelity, and some of them are probably just nitpicky rather than racist, and I think Devin concedes that point. But I think what he’s also arguing that the change in race would be far more arbitrary and less damaging than some fanboys would let on — like the organic webshooters or the black X-Men costumes. Yes, people complained about it, but it didn’t hurt those movies in the long-run (honestly, I think the organic webshooter thing makes way, way more sense and is far less confusing than having Parker build them himself).
    Also, it does seem like nerds would be more likely to get angry about a change in race than, say, the fact that most of the Spider-Man possibilities I’ve heard are far too conventionally pretty to play a picked-on nerd like Parker (that’s why Maguire was such good casting — he can look handsome in a way, but doesn’t exactly look like a matinee idol or ready for the cover of BOP or whatever) (does BOP still exist?).

  16. LexG says:

    Donald Glover shouldn’t be Spider-Man.
    Not because he’s black. Because he’s kind of a douche. Been seeing this guy ALL OVER talk shows for a couple weeks for some mysterious reason, so already getting tired of his shtick before I’ve ever seen him in anything. (I don’t watch Community; Worship Chevy, but totally don’t care. Seems like a show for white people who thought SCRUBS was too edgy.)
    But IF they did cast him, would be sort of amusing to see what Latina actress they go with for Mary Jane, per the usual Hollywood ethnic casting math which assumes Middle America doesn’t want to see black/black and doesn’t like black/white.
    In other words, Selena Gomez might wanna cancel her next tour if they do cast Glover.

  17. jesse says:

    Ha, fair (excellent, even) point about the way studios try to get the right mix of light skin opposite black sin: not too white! But not two black actors, either!
    But Lex, you tend to characterize any dudes who are (a.) funny without (b.) showing cocksure asshole bravado as “douches.” Glover is hilarious (see Mystery Team, which he may have been promoting on talk shows in conjunction with the end of Community’s season) (or don’t see it, because your taste in comedy is as lame as some of your other observations are spot-on and insightful). In other words, RE: douche, “you keep using that word… I don’t think it means what you think it means.”

  18. LexG says:

    Dane Cook and Diceman FTW.

  19. Me says:

    Community is a lot like Scrubs, back in the early seasons when it was good. It’s also like a live-action Simpsons. So, yeah, it’s not all that far off to say that it would be on the list of things white people like.
    My thing on Glover is that if a fan would get as equally upset about a blond actor (who isn’t going to dye his hair) as Glover, then it’s not racism, so much as fan-obsession (which is its own kind of sad). If it’s different because Glover is black than some other guy for being blonde, there’s a racism question to be looked at.

  20. hcat says:

    Back when Keaton bailed I thought Denzel would make a perfect Batman (he would have had to pass on Virtuosity, so hey, double win), but I guess its just as well given where the franchise was heading.

  21. Martin S says:

    Stella – I ended up reading CHUD on a weekly basis again because Feraci posted what can only be called his “Visitor’s Guide To SDCC” last year and it was the funniest damn thing I’d seen in some time. I hope he does it again while Team Ginger is shooting their ass-kiss docu this year.
    As for his Spidey argument, I could play punch-a-bunch with it all night, but let me stick to his premise. Devin’s point is that a racial change won’t alter the character because the decision to make Parker white was an unconscious default. Pure straw man, but his concern is the movie so I’ll focus on that.
    So what comic-movie have we seen a character’s race change and nothing else? Daredevil. Mark Steven Johnson and Arad ran around selling Michael Clarke Duncan as the Kingpin under the same context – the best person for the role is all that matters. Well, the point of the Kingpin was twofold; Physically, John Romita made him to resemble a bowling pin. Small white head, bowtie, round torso in white tux. As a character, he was a business titan who used his company as a mob front. He became Marvel’s symbol for The Man. This made him the perfect foil for Daredevil, for what better defender of the lower class than a defense lawyer/superhero blind to everything but good and evil.
    Flash to ’03 and Clarke Duncan is now the Kingpin. A large black guy in a high-end suit, smoking a cigar and carrying a diamond tipped cane who’s legit corporate life is actually a front for criminal activity. Good-Bye The Man, hello Suge Knight.
    Daredevil, in turn, no longer becomes the color-blind champion, but a white lawyer/superhero looking to destroy a “legit” black businessman. It’s great irony, because they thought Duncan made the character “real” without ever considering how a “real” black community would react to a white vigilante wrecking a community leader. To make it worse, Elektra, a Greek, is played by the whitest white girl that could fill the leather.
    It’s Political Correctness run amok, and the exact same thing would happen with Spider-Man if you only changed him, which is what Devin is arguing. If Black Parker goes to an White Parker’s high school, then Spidey instantly becomes a story about racial intolerance and no longer about power and responsibility. To get away from that, they would have to alter the high school which has its own set of issues. Parker’s attempt at becoming a wrestler? Now commentary on the black youth’s fixation on sports and entertainment as first careers. What if the villain is a white guy? What about Mary Jane? Where are his parents? Every aspect has to alter like dominoes and will “urbanize”, (a studio term), the entire story without one overt attempt if you wanted to have something that even resembled Spider-Man in meaning. To take Devin’s approach results in a totally different character and story that just happens to be called Spider-Man.

  22. I tried to read Devin’s piece too but the only thing I hate more than him being a kiss-ass studio sycophant is when he gets sanctimonious. His high and mightiness is what finally turned me sour on his whole schtick. If you wanna be the biting, critical, calls-em-like-I-sees-em CHUD guy, fine. Whatever. But don’t act like you’re king of the internets and arbiter of professionalism and journalistic standards.
    As for Glover as Spidey, I think from what I’ve seen of him, it *could* work. There’s no way they’re going to do it though. Not only are braindead idiot racists incapable of growing up, closeted racists and those who think they *aren’t* racist could never handle Glover and a white MJ. And if they cast MJ with a black actress the perception is it’s a “black film” which doesn’t make money.

  23. chris says:

    Just saw “Karate Kid.” It’s a bit too long, but it’s well made. And it’s going to be mammoth.

  24. chris says:

    Oh and, by the way, even Moore has disowned that song, LexG.

  25. The Big Perm says:

    Don’t know about Political Correctness, Martin…how many gigantic actors (not because they’re fat) are out there and actually have acting talent (so no wrestlers besides the Rock but I wouldn’t buy him as Kingpin). You pretty much HAVE to cast Duncan. And he did a good job and he looks awesome in that suit.
    Although a guy like Devin yammers all the time about subtext and then ignores the when it would fuck with a thesis. Martin;s right, a black Spiderman would suddenly bring a lot of baggage. But then you can say the filmmakers didn’t intend that, the viewer is bringing it in. But still, there’s all sorts of subtexts involved with changing the race, but that’s because as a society we haven’t got past a lot of shit.
    Although I tend to think they could get away from too many issues…I don’t tend to think of Blade as a black guy who kicks a lot of white vampire ass, although that’s what he does. I think of him as a good guy kicking vampire asses.
    Regarding Lex, isn’t it weird that people tend to dislike sucessful examples of themselves? How many indoe filmmakers have I met who complain that Tarantino is just a rip-off artist while they make movies made up of homages to spaghetti westerns and 70s blaxploitation? And so of course Lex dislikes the pudgy funny sucessful comedian.

  26. Martin S – Peter goes to a modern-day, integrated public school, where he is bullied/picked on/teased by whites, blacks, and hispanics equally. His (black or mixed-race) parents died in a car crash when he was young and he was raised by his uncle and aunt. The wrestler thing was outdated even in the Raimi version (I’m shocked that Bendis didn’t change that when he created Ultimate Spider-Man), but that’s for the new screenwriters to figure out. Like any other version of Spider-Man, the villains (cast them whatever race you want) are scientists-gone-kooky, who contrast with Peter the noble scientist. LexG is right that casting Mary Jane/Gwen Stacy would have to deal with racial politics, but that’s a bridge that can be crossed if and when.
    Of course, they didn’t cast him as Steve Rogers and they probably won’t cast him as Clark Kent in the next Superman, so why not keep the ball rolling and suggest Jon Hamm for Peter Parker? If anyone could play an alienated teen underdog…

  27. IOv2 says:

    Scott, Jon Hamm should so be Superman that Nolan and Co. would be stupid to not offer it to him. Lord knows they will probably want to give it to Leo, a guy who never comes across with the gravitas needed to be the man of steel.
    Yes, in my world, Jon Hamm is a better actor than Leo DiCaprio and Bryan Cranston. Cranston in particular should go up to Laurie and Hamm one day and ask each of them to punch him in the face, because never has any one actor not deserved that Emmy more than Malcolm’s dad.

  28. Stella's Boy says:

    Never been impressed with Hugh Laurie, but that’s just me. I like Hamm a lot but carrying a movie like Superman is a tall order and a far cry from Don Draper.

  29. Foamy Squirrel says:

    “Never been impressed with Hugh Laurie”
    (Blas for you… blas for ev-ery-bo-dy in the room…(02:08))

  30. Stella's Boy says:

    Sorry. Tried getting into House a few years ago. Rented the first season and watched a handful of episodes. Didn’t like it, nor was I much impressed with Laurie.

  31. Me says:

    Martin, that’s an interesting point, and I think you’re right that it would add some subtext to the Spiderman story that isn’t there in the recent movies. But I don’t see it affecting every element as you’ve mentioned. I think the subtext of a nerdy, black, middle-class Peter Parker, where his problems aren’t racial, but based on high school status, would add an interesting element to the adaptation. I think it would be a good thing for people to see that middle-class problems can be universal. I also think it would also add an interesting wrinkle to the every-man hero thing that Raimi layered on so thickly.
    And another point that Devin makes that hasn’t been mentioned here is that a movie is an adaptation, not a straight retelling. Just as elements of the Spider-Man story has changed as it has been retold for the various comics version, the cartoons, the live-action tv show, and the most recent movies, I don’t see any problem with the current storytellers changing it for yet another take. My only concern is that they end up with a good product at the end.

  32. Martin S says:

    Perm – Have you ever seen this? Not a real choice, but it’s uncanny.
    I get the Duncan he’s the only choice argument, but it doesn’t hold when you look at how thin the character was written. It didn’t have to be an established name.
    Scott & Me – I see the points and do agree that a revamped Spidey could work. Recently, I made the argument for Daredevil to be recast as latino and Kingpin as an Eastern Euro because that would be a more realistic take and would differentiate DD from Spidey and Batman. But that’s not Devin’s argument.
    I think that you could change things to reflect a more specific modern black experience, but that would be a choice. It would be an interesting choice, but it would be totally voluntary and I don’t think a black Peter Parker would suddenly have to confront crack in his family to be authentically black. Believe it or not there are plenty of black people on the same economic level as Peter Parker. And there are plenty of black kids as nerdy as Peter Parker.
    That’s a false choice because Devin won’t admit that once you change the race of the character you have to alter the rest to reflect or else you’ll have unintended consequences abound.

  33. Stella's Boy says:

    Alter the rest of what? The rest of the movie? For some reason this made me think of Salt. How much had to be rewritten for Jolie after she took over the role from Cruise? I know a gender change isn’t the same as a racial one. I just don’t see why the entire movie has to be radically altered if a black actor is cast as Spiderman. Does the fact that some think a black actor could work in the role really upset you that much?

  34. jeffmcm says:

    Yeah, I’d also like to know what Martin is talking about above. The only thing I can imagine that would have to be changed is that Parker’s high school couldn’t be lily-white as it was in the first Raimi movie in order to avoid the image of a bunch of white kids laughing at a lone black kid being humiliated by jocks. But then, a multiethnic high school in New York would actually make the movie less fantastical.

  35. a_loco says:

    I agree with Jeff. As long as Peter PArker isn’t the token black kid, not that much would have to change. And how bad is a little unmentioned racial tension, really? (Assuming the villain will be a white guy) Maybe if the movie more or less ignores the fact that he’s black, we can look at it as a sign of progress, though.
    Also, Lex is right, there’s no way in hell Sony would let both Parker and Mary Jane be black, but I remember seeing an interview with Will Smith back when Hitch came out, and he said that the NAACP got mad at him when Cameron Diaz was supposed to be the female lead, so he replaced her with Eva Mendez, which I think is kind of terrible.
    That said, Tracy Morgan was allowed to be married to Rashida Jones in Cop Out, so maybe times have changed. He is the new black.

  36. The Big Perm says:

    It’s okay for supporting comedic characters. Or if they’re already married and we don’t really see them kissing passionately.
    And I still don’t see a huge difference in what Duncan played vs what a white guy would have played. He’s got the same cane as in the comics, he’s wearing a suit…he actually looks cooler in it than some white dude would have. Just because Suge Knight has also worn a nice suit doesn’t mean they’re at all alike unless blackness s your first concern.
    But really, look at Blade 2. Did Blade’s race come into play at all? It did in the first because that was more street-based in a lot of ways. But the second could have been anyone and it wouldn’t have made any difference except they wouldn’t have been as awesome as Snipes.

  37. LexG says:

    Rashida Jones is half-black. (Her dad is Quincy Jones, who is decidedly African American.)

  38. Foamy Squirrel says:

    Ladies and gentlemen, I present Batman: Tale of the Black Bat.

  39. Chucky in Jersey says:

    I’m glad that somebody is giving props to “Because I Said So.” It may have earned a Razzie nod but it made money because it was a chick flick!
    Not only that, every time I see a Scion xC on the road I automatically think Good Enuf 2 Eat.

  40. Triple Option says:

    Martin S Wrote: the exact same thing would happen with Spider-Man if you only changed him, which is what Devin is arguing. If Black Parker goes to an White Parker’s high school, then Spidey instantly becomes a story about racial intolerance and no longer about power and responsibility.

  41. jeffmcm says:

    I would wonder why Aunt May and Uncle Ben were white.

  42. a_loco says:

    Lex: Did not know that, but she certainly doesn’t look black.
    Triple Option: That part at the bottom about Bond reminded me of when Roger Moore was touting Cuba Gooding Jr. as the next Bond.

  43. leahnz says:

    interesting discussion re: a black peter parker/spidey. sometimes a bold roll of the dice is exactly what’s needed to break barriers/shift paradigms; for example, it’s my understanding that when ‘the cosby show’ first aired, many in the tv industry had doubts about whether ‘the average viewer’ would buy into the never-before-seen depiction of an upper middle-class black family of professionals with a gaggle of kids grappling with ‘everyday’ family issues, and those fears proved largely unfounded with ‘cosby’ becoming a break-out mainstream hit beloved by people of all races and nationalities the world over, the key being relatability and accessibility. one reason the cosby sit-com worked is because it largely ignored ‘class’ expectations to portray characters and situations that most people who have ever been part of a family could relate to on some level, regardless of race. of course a weekly sit-com is a much different beast than a feature film franchise — and a whole family of characters increases the chances of viewer relatability — but perhaps if handled with a deft hand a nerdy black peter p COULD work for today’s mainstream, even with all the undeniable baggage race brings to the table (a black peter/white mj would be the most problematic, what with the ‘black man with white woman’ still culturally taboo as one of the most racially-loaded historical powder-kegs in the history of ever, so how that puppylove pairing is handled re: race would be critical), but sometimes a roll of the dice comes up a winner and today’s more multi-cultural-oriented youth might be ready to embrace the notion of a black middle-class nerd pete (or not; it might be a huge disaster, most certainly a gamble in an industry less and less willing to gamble on originality or the unconventional when big $ is at stake)

  44. Uncle Ben IS black. Oh wait, you meant in Spider-Man, not in terms of rice.

Quote Unquotesee all »

It shows how out of it I was in trying to be in it, acknowledging that I was out of it to myself, and then thinking, “Okay, how do I stop being out of it? Well, I get some legitimate illogical narrative ideas” — some novel, you know?

So I decided on three writers that I might be able to option their material and get some producer, or myself as producer, and then get some writer to do a screenplay on it, and maybe make a movie.

And so the three projects were “Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep,” “Naked Lunch” and a collection of Bukowski. Which, in 1975, forget it — I mean, that was nuts. Hollywood would not touch any of that, but I was looking for something commercial, and I thought that all of these things were coming.

There would be no Blade Runner if there was no Ray Bradbury. I couldn’t find Philip K. Dick. His agent didn’t even know where he was. And so I gave up.

I was walking down the street and I ran into Bradbury — he directed a play that I was going to do as an actor, so we know each other, but he yelled “hi” — and I’d forgot who he was.

So at my girlfriend Barbara Hershey’s urging — I was with her at that moment — she said, “Talk to him! That guy really wants to talk to you,” and I said “No, fuck him,” and keep walking.

But then I did, and then I realized who it was, and I thought, “Wait, he’s in that realm, maybe he knows Philip K. Dick.” I said, “You know a guy named—” “Yeah, sure — you want his phone number?”

My friend paid my rent for a year while I wrote, because it turned out we couldn’t get a writer. My friends kept on me about, well, if you can’t get a writer, then you write.”
~ Hampton Fancher

“That was the most disappointing thing to me in how this thing was played. Is that I’m on the phone with you now, after all that’s been said, and the fundamental distinction between what James is dealing with in these other cases is not actually brought to the fore. The fundamental difference is that James Franco didn’t seek to use his position to have sex with anyone. There’s not a case of that. He wasn’t using his position or status to try to solicit a sexual favor from anyone. If he had — if that were what the accusation involved — the show would not have gone on. We would have folded up shop and we would have not completed the show. Because then it would have been the same as Harvey Weinstein, or Les Moonves, or any of these cases that are fundamental to this new paradigm. Did you not notice that? Why did you not notice that? Is that not something notable to say, journalistically? Because nobody could find the voice to say it. I’m not just being rhetorical. Why is it that you and the other critics, none of you could find the voice to say, “You know, it’s not this, it’s that”? Because — let me go on and speak further to this. If you go back to the L.A. Times piece, that’s what it lacked. That’s what they were not able to deliver. The one example in the five that involved an issue of a sexual act was between James and a woman he was dating, who he was not working with. There was no professional dynamic in any capacity.

~ David Simon