I’m not at ComicCon… and couldn’t be happier.
Thing is, it is no longer an insider event in any way. It is all marketing, all the time. And that’s fine.
But why would I care?
Why would anyone who is interested in doing journalism care anymore? There is, by design, not a single drop on news to be had. Just press releases, like El Grande Guillermo doing La Mansi
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BYOB: 235 Years Of Relative independence
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It shows how out of it I was in trying to be in it, acknowledging that I was out of it to myself, and then thinking, “Okay, how do I stop being out of it? Well, I get some legitimate illogical narrative ideas” â some novel, you know?
So I decided on three writers that I might be able to option their material and get some producer, or myself as producer, and then get some writer to do a screenplay on it, and maybe make a movie.
And so the three projects were “Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep,” “Naked Lunch” and a collection of Bukowski. Which, in 1975, forget it â I mean, that was nuts. Hollywood would not touch any of that, but I was looking for something commercial, and I thought that all of these things were coming.
There would be no Blade Runner if there was no Ray Bradbury. I couldn’t find Philip K. Dick. His agent didn’t even know where he was. And so I gave up.
I was walking down the street and I ran into Bradbury â he directed a play that I was going to do as an actor, so we know each other, but he yelled “hi” â and I’d forgot who he was.
So at my girlfriend Barbara Hershey’s urging â I was with her at that moment â she said, “Talk to him! That guy really wants to talk to you,” and I said “No, fuck him,” and keep walking.
But then I did, and then I realized who it was, and I thought, “Wait, he’s in that realm, maybe he knows Philip K. Dick.” I said, “You know a guy namedâ” “Yeah, sure â you want his phone number?”
My friend paid my rent for a year while I wrote, because it turned out we couldn’t get a writer. My friends kept on me about, well, if you can’t get a writer, then you write.”
~ Hampton Fancher
“That was the most disappointing thing to me in how this thing was played. Is that Iâm on the phone with you now, after all thatâs been said, and the fundamental distinction between what James is dealing with in these other cases is not actually brought to the fore. The fundamental difference is that James Franco didnât seek to use his position to have sex with anyone. Thereâs not a case of that. He wasnât using his position or status to try to solicit a sexual favor from anyone. If he had â if that were what the accusation involved â the show would not have gone on. We would have folded up shop and we would have not completed the show. Because then it would have been the same as Harvey Weinstein, or Les Moonves, or any of these cases that are fundamental to this new paradigm. Did you not notice that? Why did you not notice that? Is that not something notable to say, journalistically? Because nobody could find the voice to say it. Iâm not just being rhetorical. Why is it that you and the other critics, none of you could find the voice to say, âYou know, itâs not this, itâs thatâ? Because â let me go on and speak further to this. If you go back to the L.A. Times piece, thatâs what it lacked. Thatâs what they were not able to deliver. The one example in the five that involved an issue of a sexual act was between James and a woman he was dating, who he was not working with. There was no professional dynamic in any capacity.
~ David Simon
Biggest geek display of the last few days that ISN’T at Comic-Con:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_E83GfWM-A
It’s a terrific story-telling trailer – newcomers can get an insight into the lead character, his motivations, and what he’s trying to do. The animation is great, as is the voice acting.
Which begs the question – why the hell do these guys need Raimi?
I’m pretty disappointed that Del Toro is doing a Disney franchise movie that was lame the first time. His agents must have told him he needed a mainstream hit after being off the grid for the last couple years.
I disagree, Jeff. At least in terms of your assumption about his motives. I think you can never underestimate the iconic pull that vintage Disney has for the gods of geek. And for someone as visual as Del Toro, the chance to be given carte blanche and let his imagination roam within that setting is probably like being given the keys to Valhalla.
Whether or not he can craft a coherent script or story out of the project is another matter altogether.
Happy 18th Selena Gomez.
YAAAAAAAAY!!!!
Comic-Con strikes me as the pop culture equivalent of the presidential conventions: all spectacle and no substance catering to a narrow audience while the rest (read: 90% for the pres conventions, 99.9% for Comic-Con) couldn’t care less.
why does everyone hate comic-con so much? it looks like a wacky hoot (and a bit of an ordeal) for those who choose to attend. i don’t see how it’s skin off anyone else’s nose
Speaking of Comic-Con, heard the Daft Punk music for Tron Legacy? Sounds awesome, I know I will get that soundtrack.
Del Toro is a visual wunderkind and a storytelling hack. He needs a studio like Disney to hire him purely for visuals but give him no say whatsoever in terms of story, character or plot.
Thank gaia he is off of The Hobbit!
Nicol, what are you on about?
I’d all but wager cash money it has something to do with some perceived leftist politics in Pan’s Labyrinth. (I wouldn’t know because I don’t even know who Franco was, and I couldn’t find Spain on a map, but I’m sure the idea that the adult leads were some kind of leftist activist freedom-fighter types didn’t sit right with you, so suddenly Del Toro has no grasp of story, character or plot in your book.) Or he criticized the previous administration in some interview.
Leah, bashing comic con has become the sport of kings.
Fans go to comiccon. Film snobs write about what a big joke it is. It pretty funny to listen to a ponce like dave take shots at what is basically a fan event for geeks to geek out.
I have friends there and they seem to he having a blast.
Leave it to a stick in the mud like dave to put his nose in the air and act as though its beneath them.
Ask your average film fan if theyd prefer comic con over the dozen festivals dave attends.
Im sure comic con is nothing compared to the shear exhileration of the bermuda film festival.
David, if you really loved this stuff, you would be at Comic-Con but you really do not love this stuff, but you do the four other film festivals that you are going to visit this year. Different strokes for different folks but that does not make Comic-con any less fun.
Jeff, if you read Chud, Devin already explained the reason Guillermo is doing the Haunted Mansion: it’s one of his favourite things… ever. He even has props from the ride in his house. Nice of you to try to suck the joy out of a dream project for a guy but it’s not like you knew that, but now you do and still think it’s stupid. Tear.
Foamy, if we are talking E3 sure but the biggest geek display happened in a world Flynn sustains, but big ups on you giving dap to Starcraft.
i see (points for using the word ‘ponce’)
being a ‘tron’-era teen, i’m very curious to see ‘legacy’, god help me
above was re: anghus
Leah, picture one of your favorite haunts, a dive bar, fishing hole, reading place, diner, vacation spot, website, etc. Now picture that place w/wall-to-wall ads, 10x the number of people, no reverence to the history, clutter, self entitled egos and regulations.
I’m not a comic geek but I feel their pain. Chalk off one more entity ruined by people w/dollar signs for pupils and rationalization for souls.
so the marketing machine steamrolls on
Oh yeah, Salt is a pretty great Gene Hackman film from 1988! That’s very good from where I sit and it also features Angelina Jolie running. Seriously, Jesse Quick does not run as hard as this woman. Good flick that I hope we get two more of in the next few years.
You are correct (for a change), IO.
These films are not my passion.
You are wrong when you think I am somehow unwilling to enjoy them or love them, really. But I am neither endlessly fascinated with hard core genre or terribly interested in obsessing on process before a film exists as such.
And Leah… I don’t hate ComicCon, but I do find it exhausting, frustrating, and a little embarrassing, as I am given the opportunity to treat the event like my bitch simply by being in the media… and I feel like I am taking a very good seat away from people who really care when I am just really jerking off by being there. Not true of the geek sites. This is their bread and butter, much as Oscar is mine. (And I think many of us on either side of that share a variety of feelings about the content that pays for our operations to float along.)
I think Hollywood has turned ComicCon into something over the top. Studios throw money at ComicCon like they do the Oscars… with about the same bottom line value. But when others are doing it, the “teams” on films want to know why they aren’t doing it. So sheep that studio execs are, they all end up doing it.
And that’s how you get Sony spending a couple of hundred thousand taking Angelina Jolie to San Diego for a movie that will not sell a single extra ticket because she went there.
A lot of people I really like really like going to The ‘Con. And that’s cool. I went to Trek conventions on Miami Beach when I was a kid… but you could see stuff there that would not otherwise be available. Once it was available at home, I am not interested. Especially now, when walking the floor is like going to a Who concert in Cincinnati.
But that’s just me.
i see. well, i would think nobody wants to see you jerking off there at comic-con, DP, so perhaps it’s for the best đ (please note laughyface)
That’s the thing David: you have absolutely zero proof that any of this helps or hurts. You just like to assume that they are wasting money going down there and get zero return out of getting people excited.
You get excited about TIFF. The rest of us, or a good portion of people that use twitter, facebook, and read stuff online, love this time of year because it adds excitement to films we are eager to see for sometimes, years. If the studios spending that kind of money to get people excited is wrong then what should they do to get people excited for their most expensive to produce product?
Until someone can come up with something better than comic con, which I doubt can happen no matter how hard the NYC tries, then why not enjoy thousands of people getting together for four days to reveille in the product that gets the most people excited.
Where should sony be spending that money?
IO – 2 million views in 48 hours. It’s WAAAY bigger than Flynn.
Seriously, Blizzard’s cinematics are always top notch and their event-writing is on par with the best hollywood scribes. Heck, their in-house lead artist does half the voices and stands up against the professional voice actors. They’re rolling in more cash than most most film studios… so why do they need Sam Raimi and Legendary when Raimi’s given every indication that he has no real interest in kick-starting the project until he needs another payday to keep the execs happy.
Nicol has disliked Del Toro ever since he endorsed Stalinism and the starving of millions of Russians and Ukrainians in Pan’s Labyrinth.
Oh, wait, that’s a simplistic and ideologically-driven reading of the film. Never mind.
Foamy, again, gamers and geeks are mutually exclusive. This has gotten pc gamers excited because the other gamers are all sorts of excited about SPACE COMBAT IN THE OLD REPUBLIC! Still, you are the only who I have ever read anywhere commend Blizzard on their storytelling. Every WOW friend I had always mentioned the story being bad and every person I have ever known liked the game play of Starcraft more than the story. If Blizzard have turned it around, then, uh, good for them!
Heh… their WoW storytelling suffers because of the nature of the medium. It’s like a soap opera squared – their are literally dozens of arcs playing out at once, and generally they come across as pretty “meh”. Similarly, the Starcraft storytelling is hampered by the fact it’s an RTS – the “story” can only really happen at the 30seconds at the start and end, otherwise it interferes too much with the gameplay.
However, when they sit down and do an event – where the story can take a front seat and stay on track – THEN they start firing with all cylinders. Ask your WoW friends about the Wrathgate or watch some of the fan compilations:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iK_9aFjsIEg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-hhlk5FKxI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVAeStLF3QA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HW1bl37syI8
IO – I don’t have any illusions about the value – or lack of value – in Toronto. It is, for the US, a big junket… and a chance to get some cheap press on some mostly small movies.
No one confuses Toronto with a studio marketing campaign.
ComicCon does have a press junket element… but it’s thinner than most. Too many people, not enough time, not enough focus.
Comic-Con is a lot like ShoWest actually… except that no one expects ShoWest to sell a movie to anyone. It ratchets up the enthusiasm of the exhibitors… and even that is becoming less valuable each year.
What studios MUST do “to get people excited for their most expensive to produce product” is market it… same as always. And in the end, that is still what sells their movies, whether it’s Salt or District 9 or Iron Man or Borat… or any of the many films that have had big events and big buzz out of ComicCon and ended up failing.
Anghus… your question is easier to answer… they shouldn’t be spending the money… period. No upside. My guess is it was one of the many things they pitched to AJ to do and it was one she said “yes” to and then they realized the date was right on top of their opening, but too late to undo it.
You don’t have to spend it just because you can.
David wrote; ‘What studios MUST do ‘to get people excited for their most expensive to produce product’ is market it… same as always. And in the end, that is still what sells their movies, whether it’s Salt or District 9 or Iron Man or Borat… or any of the many films that have had big events and big buzz out of ComicCon and ended up failing.”
My main problem, of course, is with the last part of that sentence. You assume because some films came out of their and did not live up to their buzz, that they failed. You are also excluding, selectively, that some films came out of there and the buzz generated online translated into something.
It’s not like we can quantify this something but it’s a tad bit selective to not accept that some films have been helped over the last 10 years by Comic Con hype. Hype and buzz do not always translate to dollars but occasionally they do, and you seem to believe that marketing at comic-con is not as important as marketing to everybody. Let me once again state that marketing to the thousands there and the millions who follow online, is as good as any marketing job could ever hope to do.
You not wanting these studios to spend the money, sort of ignores that they have it, it creates a press opportunity and countless youtube clips, so why not take advantage of it?
Just curious, David: How many Comic Cons have you actually attended? Because, seriously: After I attended 4 or 5 Cannes Film Festivals, I found myself thinking pretty much the same way about it that you do about Comic Con.
somebody emailed me this. comic-con MUST be all kinds of awesome:
http://splashpage.mtv.com/2010/07/22/karl-urban-judge-dredd-rumor/
but fuck MTV. i can’t watch this, would someone PLEASE tell me if karl is dreamy and if indeed it sounds like he might seriously be the new ‘judge dread’? in that still, bruce looks like a turtle who’s stuck his head waaay far out of his shell)
sorry, ‘judge dredd’ obviously. typos
This has been doing the rounds of some of the webcomic artist Comic-Con attendees, and is really kinda awesome – pop songs performed in American Sign Language.
Two of my favourites:
First of May – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEjRHFom1Kk
Party in the USA – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmKnQjBf8wM
Comes complete with signing transcript so the hearing-challenged-challenged amongst us can follow along.
Oh – First of May is NSFW (although if co-workers/family aren’t listening closely they’d never notice).
Salt — it’s like The Fugitive, except crappy!
Lex,
You schooled me once again. You are such a genius.
Is that why John Nolte succeeded as a commenter turned editor where you still crank it to Megan Fox photos in a drunken stupor on a Friday night? You’re turning on the one guy who used to champion you dude?
Jeff,
You are such a genius. I cannot match your wit and sarcasm. You are my better with such complex and nuanced arguments. It is not possible to dislike DelToro without politics. He is a genius.
A Clockwork Orange. Schindler’s List. African Queen. Hellboy.
All are of the same quality. Thanks for the lesson.
Salt: It’s like Narrow Margin, damn it!
Watch out! Nicol has his snippy pants on!
Nicol:
1) What does John Nolte have to do with anything I said? And I wasn’t really attacking you… I was presuming, as is often a safe thing to do in your case when politics and art meet, that such a vocal dislike of an acclaimed filmmaker– Del Toro– who’s regarded as a MASTER STORYTELLER (I’m not entirely onboard with that or even a particular megafan, but that’s the general critical consensus) would almost have to be explained away on ideological grounds, since you have fairly consistently found a way to downplay contemporary artists/actors whose politics don’t match yours.
And since you bring up Nolte, he and I are Twitter buddies now, and I don’t diss him at all anymore. He has a market and appears to be successful. More power to him. But you’ll notice even Nolte is capable of giving things a fair shake– Che, Milk, Religulous– when the smart super movie fanatic inside him can’t entirely dismiss good filmmaking just because he has issues with the slant. I would say you seem slightly less inclined to bend in such a way.
2) I still “crank it to Megan Fox,” but much, much less so since she married the B.A.G.
3) I quit drinking a while back.
4) I appreciate your words of support over time, but you’re far from my “one champion” around here.
“I quit drinking a while back.”
Noooo… if Leah quits too then it’ll just be me drunkenly babbling. :-/
The Checkered Demon just smiled.
Lex,, let’s not forget her bad plastic surgery. Why Fox had to mess with that face is beyond me.
John Nolte invites Victoria Jackson on as one of his guest writers JUST because she is a former C list entertainer who happens to hate Obama….I’ll just leave it at that.
Finkester is hearing that both Inception and Salt did about $14 million today – GOOD hold for Inception, it’s not looking pretty assured for $200 million. Great that the movie is truly catching on, it could end up grossing in the Hangover/Blind Side/Star Treak realm of $250 million plus – not bad for such a heady film and a Best Picture nom is now looking more likely, backlash or not.
“Great that the movie is truly catching on, it could end up grossing in the Hangover/Blind Side/Star Treak realm of $250 million plus – not bad for such a heady film and a Best Picture nom is now looking more likely, backlash or not.”-Geoff
It is pretty much in the $350m+ range now. $270m range was assured on Wednesday. It will make it’s 2nd weekend what POTC-1 made its opening weekend and went onto another $235m. It could also have a lower drop than POTC-1. So its drops will probably from this point forward be smaller. When I mistakenly typed POTC-DMC last Friday, I may have invertantly typed the right POTC to compare it. It looks to make DP’ $170m domestic total in its first two weeks. Check out my Inception analysis if you want to see what was pretty obvious earlier in the week.
OMG JANUARY JONES POWER BOWWWWWWWWW.
Saw her on SNL (charmingly bad) and in PIRATE RADIO (HORRIBLE)… But she’s on FALLON now, and OH MY GOD LOOK AT HER.
JANUARY POWER.
Why do I keep hearing about that big fat redhead from MAD MEN when THIS awwwwwwesome tall, skinny, modestly-racked long-legged chick is on the same show? There are actually guys who’d rather be with Sally Spectre from Bold and the Beautiful 1987-looking Christine Hendricks than a LANKY BLONDE WITH LONG LEGS and a SMALLER RACK?
Also: RACHEL WEISZ was just on Leno and was pretty CHARMING even though her finest hour was clearly THE SHAPE OF THINGS, one of the most brilliant and accurate movies ever made.
Oops I meant PIRATE RADIO was a HORRIBLE movie; January was DELIGHTFUL in it.
Sure, LexG – Kendricks is fat, just like Marilyn Monroe was fat. Unless you have an eight pack and look like Zac Efron, I really don’t think you’re in a place to be talking like that, sir.
Anghus – Fans go to comiccon. Film snobs write about what a big joke it is. It pretty funny to listen to a ponce like dave take shots at what is basically a fan event for geeks to geek out.
Dave moderated one of the last worthwhile panels in SDCC history, before it became NY Toyfair: West.
Since ’86 I’ve gone to SDCC on and off. When the creators of the Con die within the same year frame, it’s a sign. It used to be about interaction between creators and audience, now it’s geek swag for lemmings.
Re: Del Toro. Passion project my ass. The guy’s a millionaire who owns tons of shit. Brett Ratner owns a Superman # 1, didn’t help that nightmare.
Haunted Mansion has concrete financing. The fact the he’s not directing makes it quintessential SDCC patronization. Perhaps he’s negotiating with Disney to finance his Lovecraft or Monte Cristo projects while shepherding a theme ride.
IO – That’s the thing David: you have absolutely zero proof that any of this helps or hurts.
Watchmen. Kick-Ass. Both beloved. Both bombed. Kick-Ass tanked after being showered by SDCC zombies.
IO – I know you’re smart enough to get this. SDCC is a pissing match between studios for web buzz. But that buzz is always a year too early, minimum. Anticipation goes into overdrive over the littlest noise, so by the time something is released it has no prayer of matching expectations. Producers, though, don’t give a fuck because they need the early web awareness to sell a studio on heavy P&A investment.
…And Dave will be back at SDCC four years from now.
Martin, really, Kick-ass and Watchmen? Watchmen made a lot of money for a long adaptation of a graphic novel. Kick-ass did pretty good for a movie with that concept. What did you expect those to do? I had faith in Watchmen but it and Kick-ass did what they were going to do. Stating they BOMBED because of HYPE at Comic-con is such a fallacy of an argument that all I have to type is IRON MAN and it falls away like the ashes from a lit cigarette.
Martin, you are also smart enough to know that we live in a world… where tentpoles are long term events. I would admit that Comic-Con would seeming help films that are coming out after the con but again, this con is about getting people excited to see the product that cost the most to produce. If you think the producers do not care then you think the producers do not care. It’s obvious someone has to care because Comic-Con only got this epic 10 years ago.
John Nolte? Anyone playing in Breitbart’s shitbox deserves their fate. The GOP is collectively insane.
“Since ’86 I’ve gone to SDCC on and off. When the creators of the Con die within the same year frame, it’s a sign. It used to be about interaction between creators and audience, now it’s geek swag for lemmings.” Martin S
Ha ha! I stopped going to ComicCon 4 yrs ago and maybe that’s why.
The Godzilla fest and many of the sub-geek fests are more fun since you still see drawers, inventors, stage/art designers and fans having a fun time just geeking out — of all ages too.
“The GOP is collectively insane.”
Same is true for any social group – people individually are smart, “The People” collectively are insane. GOP, Democrats, Comic-Con Goers, Hotbloggers…
Why are we talking about fucking politics and ignoring the momentous news that LexG and Jeffrey Wells broke bread?
http://hollywood-elsewhere.com/2010/07/streaks.php
Really? Really? That happened? Really?
IO – Watchmen/Kick-Ass bombed. Kick-Ass barely showed while dropped off the map its second week.
Do you really think that was the expectations? After all the shit WB purposely created to make Watchmen, they were kewl nibbling on ancillaries? As for Kick-Ass, it didn’t even show up.
What I said about producers is they don’t give a fuck about raising expectations beyond a realistic point because its another leverage tool. If A&M decides a movie’s fate, you want maximum studio support. A studio cannot differentiate buzz. Watchmen and Kick-Ass had little to no support outside of fanbois. WB thought Snyder had an adaptation formula that resulted in huge returns and Lionsgate thought they were buying a franchise. I’m not faulting producers, what they’re doing is the equivalent of an IPO launch. I’m actually faulting fanbois who’ve sacrificed discernment for patronization.
You’re right SDCC changed ten years ago. It’s the pavlovian AICN factor.
Martin, no, they did not bomb. They made the best they could as R rated films. If both of those films are PG-13, the rating you need to hit that teen audience, then the results different. The fact that you are giving people crap for being excited by two very good films is astonishing to me.
You also are seemingly ignoring that Watchmen made millions of dollars for Warners as a graphic novel and they decided to make the early part of last year a celebration of a great graphic novel.
Again, I love Scott Pilgrim, everyone at CC is raving about it, but does that guarantee it wins it weekend? Not really but getting people excited is not a bad thing and that does not mean they are being patronized to either. Again unless you are down, unless you get it, then you are going to make statements such as yours Martin, and they cannot be farther from the truth.
WOW who has the endurance to make it thru one of these whole pages? I guess this shows my burnt out mind. You guys do start getting a bit cranky at one another at times and Leah I don’t think you should make comments about pics of Willis. All your other comments that I saw were so reasonable and NOT superficially critical. It’s the type of stuff they ALWAYS do to females. Speaking of which, and I don’t think I have seen any critical comments about AJ’s Salt except from Bodhizefa. What type of name is that. You are wrong by the way. The movie is GREAT. I didn’t see David being that critical of Comic Con in the first place. Geez Louise lighten up. Too bad that some true-hearted journalists who have had to become publicists just to get a paycheck – sometimes have to escort around beautiful actresses at Comic Con. I know one for example that David really likes … and has defended as most definitely a journalist. And really I don’t think the studios have that much money to throw around and if they do it would be better spent on paying salaries to people they should not have fired. Will shut up since am always too flowery. Don’t like it when any of you are nasty to one another. That publicist I mentioned who I miss alot, showed me here cuz he said DP is a calibre all his own. Never nasty … Good to follow suit.
Wait, you’re saying this publicist told you David is never nasty?
Martin, I agree with IO, I don’t how how you could say Watchmen or Kick-Ass was a bomb. They were just too inflated by geeks into a second coming hugest box office ever…and then in reality they did fine for what they were, as far as I can tell.
But isn’t it fair to say that since they spent $130 million to make Watchmen, Warners was hoping for box office numbers closer to 300 than barely crawling past $100 million? Is $107 million against a $130 million budget really fine and in line with studio expectations?
I’d say that it was probably a disappointment for WB, but they should have been paying attention to the movie they were spending a shitload of money on. For the extremely hard-R, no-star, very long and almost actionless movie they financed, I think it did pretty well. They should have made it for 60.
“and Leah I don’t think you should make comments about pics of Willis. All your other comments that I saw were so reasonable and NOT superficially critical. It’s the type of stuff they ALWAYS do to females.”
jammer69, i get what you’re saying, and in my own defence all i can say is i honestly didn’t mean it as a superficial put-down of bruce, he just really, really reminds me of cecil turtle in that still shot w/karl
cecil:
http://www.iconarchive.com/show/looney-tunes-icons-by-sykonist/Cecil-Turtle-icon.html
(not the best cecil pic but the quickest i could find)
Stella – I think this is hopeless.
Anyone remember the Watchmen legal shitstorm? In the end, WB lost out because they wanted to be in the Zach Snyder business and he was sold on Watchmen’s availability. Legendary, Paramount and Fox ate the returns.
Say what you want about me “being down” with whatever, IO, but you have zero business logic. No company, none, would have put themselves in WB’s position if they believed Watchmen wasn’t going to run the table. The proof is in how many people dropped the property before them. WB was willing to go through with this because of the expectations associated with it – which they were sold on by the geeknet world via the producers and one of their inhouse guys.
IO – They made the best they could as R rated films. If both of those films are PG-13, the rating you need to hit that teen audience, then the results different.
Come on, IO! Fucking 300 was as Hard R as it got and it cleared 450Mil with a cast of no ones. Snyder used the same formula for Watchmen that he did for 300, something he discussed during the preproduction, and it bombed.
300 – 60M, Hard R, no names = 450Mil
Watchmen – 130M, R, no names = 107Mil
Look at Sucker Punch. Snyder got this rolling on the heels of Watchmen because he knew if he waited after the release, it would stall. It’s his way of capitalizing on 300, but he also knows SPunch could tailspin exactly like Watchmen so now he’s onto Xerxes, (I can’t speak to the Owl movie because I don’t know its production history, other than it’s also a passion project).
Snyder’s not a dumb guy. He needs SDCC to build awareness for Suckerpunch, which is how its useful. SDCC is not useful as a barometer, which is how it has been utilized and is how Lionsgate got duped into overpaying for Kick-Ass.
I really don’t know what you read here or wherever IO, but Dave has done a very good job of breaking down the Lionsgate problem. In essence, Kick-Ass was a huge gamble they really couldn’t afford on top of the other bigass gambles they’ve taken. They were sold on the geek reception and its potential to crossover with enough P&A. They got hosed.
As for Watchmen ancillaries, DC made out, sure. The proof is with Jim Lee offering to give Alan Moore the Watchmen rights back – if he agreed to write sequels and offshoots. But that’s not the film division. Synergy is nice except when your job is dependent on the success of your fifedom.
Just as a clarification – if you’re going to use 300’s WW BO you should use Watchmen’s WW BO too. Still, $185mil ain’t much to crow about on a Time100 source material with a $130mil budget…
Martins wrote; “Come on, IO! Fucking 300 was as Hard R as it got and it cleared 450Mil with a cast of no ones. Snyder used the same formula for Watchmen that he did for 300, something he discussed during the preproduction, and it bombed.”
What’s the difference between 300 and Watchmen? Easier to get the ladies to see a bunch of greased up men not as easy to get them to see a movie where Jackie Earl is the lead. Again, they are two very different kinds of film and obviously I am not multiple man, because Watchmen did not appeal to a lot of people. 300 did on viscera alone.
“300 – 60M, Hard R, no names = 450Mil
Watchmen – 130M, R, no names = 107Mil
Look at Sucker Punch. Snyder got this rolling on the heels of Watchmen because he knew if he waited after the release, it would stall. It’s his way of capitalizing on 300, but he also knows SPunch could tailspin exactly like Watchmen so now he’s onto Xerxes, (I can’t speak to the Owl movie because I don’t know its production history, other than it’s also a passion project).”
Sucker Punch, unless it’s in 3D, will be lucky to do what Watchmen did and guess what Martin? STILL AN ACCOMPLISHMENT!
“Snyder’s not a dumb guy. He needs SDCC to build awareness for Sucker Punch, which is how its useful. SDCC is not useful as a barometer, which is how it has been utilized and is how Lionsgate got duped into overpaying for Kick-Ass.”
You have no knowledge that Lionsgate used Kick Ass asa barometer. What they seemingly did is buy a film or distribute hell of a film that did not catch on with some people because it’s marketing sucked. You can’t market something as ICONIC without confusing people. Nevertheless, it made good cash for it is and not like Vaughn didnt get another gig out of that film.
“I really don’t know what you read here or wherever IO, but Dave has done a very good job of breaking down the Lionsgate problem. In essence, Kick-Ass was a huge gamble they really couldn’t afford on top of the other bigass gambles they’ve taken. They were sold on the geek reception and its potential to crossover with enough P&A. They got hosed.”
Again the film is awesome. If you think the film is a piece of crap that’s fine but the film works, it’s a solid film, and hopefully does fine on video. Seriously you are acting as if it’s a piece of crap when it’s not.
‘As for Watchmen ancillaries, DC made out, sure. The proof is with Jim Lee offering to give Alan Moore the Watchmen rights back – if he agreed to write sequels and offshoots. But that’s not the film division. Synergy is nice except when your job is dependent on the success of your fifedom.”
My point remains: Watchmen already made money before they filmed a single frame. Synergy exist with Warners and DC and that’s why Watchmen making what it made is pretty good for a close to three hour comic book film with screwin, nudity, and violent killin’ set in the 80s. A time period a kids from the 90s just does not understand.
“My point remains: Watchmen already made money before they filmed a single frame.”
Wait, what? No it didn’t. They got hosed every step of the way – from acquiring it after 20 years in development hell, to getting sued by Fox, to overpaying on production that didn’t translate into box office, and they got bugger all in the way of ancillaries.
I don’t think it’s as bad a movie as some people make out – I think it was sold as a “comic book movie” when it was actually a noir film that just happens to have superheroes. But business-wise it really was a textbook case of “how not to make a tentpole flick”.
Martin, you act like someone setting up another film before the current one has been released is something new.
Foamy, that graphic novel sold a ton and that’s my point.
Then the graphic novel made a ton, not the movie.
DC didn’t have a stake in the movie – the rights were sold in the 80’s independently of the DC/WB partnership. If they sold a bunch of new printings of the graphic novel thanks to the release of the movie, then that’s free money for DC of which WB never saw a penny.
Warners and DC are part of the same entity, so, you know, it all goes in the same pot. The graphic novel also sold a ton from the moment that trailer showed in front of TDK til March. Again, the film could have been more successful sure, but it’s not like it did not benefit DC/Warners in someway.
That’s not how it works. Even if one entity is owned entirely by another, from the legal, accounting, and taxation perspectives they’re still separate. If Time-Warner tells DC to do something detrimental to its publishing business to help the film business, DC’s board is legally obligated to tell TW to go fuck themselves or the board members can go to jail.
well since it is a BYOB…
MAD MEN (without spoilers) fell a little flat for me. My favorite weirdo Peggy wasn’t weird enough and alot of the dialog was jargony or somehow hipster and clipped. didn;t like that. I enjoyed the long-winded dysfunction and social discomfort before.
best tension– the family scenes with Bets. Good stuff.
Yeah IO, I’m not sure the people who have gross points in Watchmen care about how many copies of the comic sell.
Foamy, not anymore. They essentially set up that whole new thing where DC and Warners are working together, as a team, with the DC films. That’s why Geoff Johns keeps going down to Orleans for GL. Seriously you and Perm, the book and the t-shirts and the adaptations and the two dvds for the movie before the movie came out, made Warners cash. Let someone else post the same thing because obviously I am not convincing either of you.
Lota, Peggy is not weird. Weirdo Peggy? Really? I loved her interactions with Don. They make that show worth watching.
Everything else really made me laugh. I love the new set, Kristina Hendricks apparently just gets to hang out more, and Pete has finally become an awesome character. His response to Don about why they are there, really killed it for me.
I also love that Don had to give another interview because the first one had too much of Don Draper in it.
You don’t have to convince me, you have to convince congress and the IRS. They made the rules, not me.
You don’t even live in this country. You don’t get to toss around Congress and the IRS! You go to Parliament and you like it! Again, DC and Warners did not work in tandem then, but Warners did get some ancillaries off of this flick.
Did January show her feet on tonight’s ep?
ANSWER THE QUESTION: WHO IS YOUR DADDY AND WHAT DOES HE DO? ALSO: How tan is Wells in person?
What are you TALKING about?
Someone posted something about you and Wells having steak the other day. I am just wondering if it indeed happened.
It indeed happened, but there was no steak.
Well that’s good to know. Has David ever taken you to dinner?
David and Kim Voynar have met me for coffee (David paid for my parking, if I recall, or maybe it was my beverage); Friday I met Wells for breakfast for a couple hours; He was perfectly delightful… I used to work at a job with McWeeny for several years and would see movies with him from time to time; There are a couple other notable LA film bloggers I either know socially or as current or former work friends.
It is my goal to utterly underwhelm every major LA/NY film critic/blogger with my completely average, unassuming, decidedly un-LexG real-life personality.
Aww to beat yourself up Lex. A lion can only roar so much in a day.
Don’t beat yourself up. Word.